Author Topic: Fav catfoods  (Read 15369 times)

Offline melysion

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #85 on: December 06, 2007, 10:38:39 AM »
Toby gets the Bozita cartons (the tins look a bit yukky), Natures:menu, Applaws and I buy a couple of American brands from Germany - Felidae and Natures Variety. Generally speaking, American cat food (the premium brands) are waaaay better than what we get here and there is a lot more choice (we seem to be very restricted in terms of decent cat food in the UK. Its immensely frustrating).

I hardly ever feed Toby dry food but if I do he gets Nutro.

Offline Yvonne

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #84 on: December 06, 2007, 10:29:42 AM »
Sounds great but unfortunately no PAH round here  :-[
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Offline Mark

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #83 on: December 06, 2007, 10:26:45 AM »
I only looked at that thread to post about PAH own brand wet food called "Cuisine" - I bought some to go in the cat pantry  :evillaugh: as It's always handy to have a mix. One of them is a sea fish supermeat and it smells really fishy like Shippams paste or like kit-e-kat used to years ago. The cats love it. Alice wolfed it down - as in 1/2 can in about a minute  :Crazy:
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Offline Yvonne

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #82 on: December 06, 2007, 09:57:41 AM »
I am going to start a new thread about this because I don't think anybody has noticed it - apart from Mark who as ever is on the ball
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Offline Mark

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #81 on: December 06, 2007, 07:09:44 AM »
Hi Yvonne,

The email isn't from Procter & Gamble, it's Mars/Masterfoods/Waltham which is the company that makes Whiskas, Pedigree Chum etc. Interesting that it only mentions dogs. Maybe you registered with pedigree?. I am very skeptical when I read emails like that when companies say they don't experiment, does that mean they get another company to do it for them? - a bit like when something says "no artifical colour or preservative" - you can guarantee it will have artificial flavouring  :-:

As far as Procter & Gamble goes, they have apparently received an award from the American Humane Society and they also have a website saying they don't experiment. It's so hard to know what to believe when they have such a bad track record. If they really have stopped, I would buy their products "as a reward" - half of me thinks I should never buy their products again but these companies need an incentive to stop testing.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 10:23:36 AM by Mark »
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Offline Yvonne

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #80 on: December 05, 2007, 18:42:56 PM »
Hi all,

New thread started to avoid confusion, please take the time to have a look:

http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php?topic=10269.msg168530#msg168530

 :thanks:

« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 10:20:56 AM by Yvonne »
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Offline Susanne (urbantigers)

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #79 on: December 05, 2007, 17:59:58 PM »
There was an article in one of the cat mags several months ago about raw feeding and they said to add additional taurine to frozen and defrosted food.  I think it's debatable whether freezing per se reduced the taurine, but I seem to recall the article saying that it may well do and that since too much taurine wasn't harmful (is that true?) it was best to err on the side of caution and add some before serving.

Grinding meat also reduces the taurine, apprently.

It's briefly mentioned in this article

http://thecatswhiskers.wordpress.com/category/cat-nutrition/raw-feeding/

Offline Gillian Harvey

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #78 on: December 05, 2007, 17:56:38 PM »
I have been investigating this and can't find any raw cat feeders who support or echo your thoughts on taurine. There are many pre-prepared 100% raw diets that are stored in pet store freezers, and those I know who buy in bulk for cats & dogs always buy frozen. One person on my dog forum has fed her cats nothing but pre-frozen meat for years and they are in amazing shape. I personally will continue to pre-freeze.

All processing degrades taurine - therefore minced, frozen meat will have insufficient taurine. I wouldnt want to rely on only frozen minced meats without adding taurine. Luckily I don't feed those frozen minced pet meats, I prefer to feed fresh chunks of meat (good for teeth and gum health) - my lot gave the frozen ones the thumbs down anyway LOL! I will sometimes feed minced meat, but only human grade fresh from supermarket, butcher or farmers markets and for extra taurine I feed heart.

Offline emma_vn

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #77 on: December 05, 2007, 17:17:50 PM »
Unfortunately freezing meat destroys most of the taurine, which as I'm sure you know is essential for cats. So if raw is the main diet you need to add taurine (and prob many other vits, minerals etc) if the meat has been frozen, which to my mind makes it no better than a commercial diet if you need to add things that have been lost via freezing/processing. Food moves much faster through a cats intestines than ours, about 12 hrs, compared to 30-50 hours for us!  :sick: Also their intestines are highly acidic so well able to deal with any bacteria. Anyway most domestic freezers are nowhere near cold enough to kill bacteria I'm afraid, so might just as well feed as nature intended!

I have been investigating this and can't find any raw cat feeders who support or echo your thoughts on taurine. There are many pre-prepared 100% raw diets that are stored in pet store freezers, and those I know who buy in bulk for cats & dogs always buy frozen. One person on my dog forum has fed her cats nothing but pre-frozen meat for years and they are in amazing shape. I personally will continue to pre-freeze.

Offline emma_vn

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #76 on: November 27, 2007, 08:19:34 AM »
Quote
I pre-freeze after seeing a dog infected with a disease from raw meat,
Was that the triciosis whatsit from pork? Its the one meat i dont feed for that reason and that its very rich and fatty.

Yes thats the one  ;)

Offline Desley (booktigger)

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #75 on: November 27, 2007, 08:15:19 AM »
i feel for you Helen, I hated dealing with mine on Fri, fortunately, I asked the butcher how easy they were to chop so he did it for me, and my sis was here to help pull all the meat off for the cats - I couldnt manage it!! I doubt mine will be getting them again, although Mol showed an interest.
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Offline Tiggy's Mum

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #74 on: November 26, 2007, 23:39:26 PM »
Riley's now wailing for his bedtime snack, he just tried to break into the automatic feeder (which is empty) and all the time there's two big fat juicy chicken wings on a plate on the floor waiting for him :innocent:

Offline Kittybabe (Ruth)

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #73 on: November 26, 2007, 23:27:06 PM »
 :rofl:  ... ooo  :sick:

Offline Tiggy's Mum

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #72 on: November 26, 2007, 23:10:21 PM »
How much do you love your boys Helen?!!  :evillaugh:
The other option is to get one of those big choppy knives and just whop down and go through the joints that way   ;D
I just hack through with bluntish scissors  :naughty: funny i dont eat meat but can mutilate it  :-: :-:

Lets just say my love is being put to the test  :shify:  I think they'd prefer some Whiskas Temptations anyday which is lucky for me  ;) After trying the scissors I then tried to dislocate the joints manually, in the end I did get a big choppy knife but then there were shards of bone which I had to pick off, combine that with the wing like movement and you can see how Whiskas temptations are more appealing  :evillaugh:

Offline Kittybabe (Ruth)

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #71 on: November 26, 2007, 23:05:32 PM »
How much do you love your boys Helen?!!  :evillaugh:
The other option is to get one of those big choppy knives and just whop down and go through the joints that way   ;D
I just hack through with bluntish scissors  :naughty: funny i dont eat meat but can mutilate it  :-: :-:

:sick: I can hear it in my mind. Blerch...

Offline Millys Mum

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #70 on: November 26, 2007, 23:02:02 PM »
How much do you love your boys Helen?!!  :evillaugh:
The other option is to get one of those big choppy knives and just whop down and go through the joints that way   ;D
I just hack through with bluntish scissors  :naughty: funny i dont eat meat but can mutilate it  :-: :-:


Offline Kittybabe (Ruth)

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #69 on: November 26, 2007, 23:01:46 PM »
 :no no: its very traumatising to have a flapping dead bird in your kitchen!

Offline Susanne (urbantigers)

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #68 on: November 26, 2007, 22:57:40 PM »
it completely freaked me out when I picked one up to chop and the joints started moving in a wing like manner  :sick:

I've got this mental image now of body less chicken wings flapping around Helens' kitchen  :rofl:  Sorry, shouldn't laugh  :rofl:

Offline Kittybabe (Ruth)

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #67 on: November 26, 2007, 22:54:46 PM »
In a wing like manner?  :evillaugh:  I know what you mean though. Indeed scissors are better for the joints.. but its the bit where you have to break them at the joint to make it easier to cut through...  :sick:

Sorry H, not helping much am I?  :shy:

Offline Tiggy's Mum

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #66 on: November 26, 2007, 22:49:13 PM »
Freeze them individually and start them on small diced cubes of breast  ;D work your way up, raw food is completely different in texture and smell so they wont have much of a clue.
They will soon be munching away on bones  :Luv2:

I'm not sure I can go through the trauma of cutting the others up  :sick: it completely freaked me out when I picked one up to chop and the joints started moving in a wing like manner  :sick:

Would chicken thighs or drumsticks be any good as they seem a lot neater?

Offline Susanne (urbantigers)

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #65 on: November 26, 2007, 22:47:44 PM »
The wing bones are very soft and easy to cut if you do it at the joints.  I think I used scissors actually.

Offline Kittybabe (Ruth)

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #64 on: November 26, 2007, 22:46:14 PM »
 :sick: cuting bones. As a kid, part of our learning to cook at home was to make Spaghetti Chicken and I had to take  whole chicken and cut it up to the right pieces. I swear that experience put me off every buying whole chickens  :sick: the bones crunching.. yuck.. and then about 2.5 years ago I stopped eating even the precut nicely packaged type. 

Just thinking about buying raw wings for Lexy is making me  :sick:  blerch Poor you Helen. I feel for you matey. :hug:  :-:

Offline Desley (booktigger)

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #63 on: November 26, 2007, 22:44:15 PM »
I am going to get mine some raw meat at weekend - it is Molly's birthday next Mon, so they are due a treat.
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Offline Millys Mum

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #62 on: November 26, 2007, 22:42:14 PM »
Freeze them individually and start them on small diced cubes of breast  ;D work your way up, raw food is completely different in texture and smell so they wont have much of a clue.
They will soon be munching away on bones  :Luv2:


Offline Susanne (urbantigers)

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #61 on: November 26, 2007, 22:39:07 PM »
 :rofl: Typical!

I wouldn't mind but they only sold them in massive great trays so now I have hundreds of the things!

You could always put them in the auction  :rofl:

Offline Tiggy's Mum

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #60 on: November 26, 2007, 22:33:44 PM »
My Benglies love chicken wings but I freeze them and defrost before giving them to them - just something the breeder advised. They are normally gone within an hour.  My other cats looked at me as if I was totally mad when I offered the wings to them  :rofl:

Well, I finally got the boys some wings.  I was almost physically sick trying to cut it into two  :sick:  I guess I'm so used to chicken breasts being all smooth and skinlless with no yukky bits, finally managed it so called them into the kitchen and started the video on my mobile expectantly...  'The boys first chicken wings' - Riley licked the outside of one then wandered off, Lukey sniffed then wandered off.  I wouldn't mind but they only sold them in massive great trays so now I have hundreds of the things!
« Last Edit: November 26, 2007, 22:35:04 PM by Tiggy's Mum - Helen »

Offline Millys Mum

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #59 on: November 26, 2007, 21:32:07 PM »
I have e-mailed Proctor and Gamble

I will let you know when and if I receive a response

Good luck, those evil people will never stop  >:(

Quote
I pre-freeze after seeing a dog infected with a disease from raw meat,
Was that the triciosis whatsit from pork? Its the one meat i dont feed for that reason and that its very rich and fatty.


Offline unseeliechylde

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #58 on: November 26, 2007, 14:35:02 PM »
Ah, thats interesting, wonder if dogs have a slower digestive system than cats that make them more susceptible to any bacteria? 

Yup, they do. Their digestion is somewhere between ours and a cats, because, like us, they are omnivores rather than obligate carnivores like cats. In fact, dogs can develop skin, behavioural and digestive problems if they are fed on a diet that is too high in animal protein, as their digestive system is not designed for this.
Though it's generally believed that dogs descend from wolves and therefore are "pure" carnivores, thi is not true - they share a common ancestor with wolves, but the dog's ancestor was more likely to be jackel-like, an animal who's diet is, at best, only 40% meat.
Cats, by contrast are truly obligate carnivores, and unlike dogs, cannot survive without animal protein. Though veggies (of certain species) aren't harmful to cats, they are not actually able to digest them, and they function simply as indigestible fibre, like grass.

Offline Yvonne

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #57 on: November 26, 2007, 14:16:17 PM »
I have e-mailed Proctor and Gamble

I will let you know when and if I receive a response
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Offline Gillian Harvey

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #56 on: November 25, 2007, 23:09:39 PM »
Thanks for that, Gillian - I really didn't know that about taurine so I am glad you mention it. I pre-freeze after seeing a dog infected with a disease from raw meat, more for my dogs really, but that is food for thought - thank you  ;)

Ah, thats interesting, wonder if dogs have a slower digestive system than cats that make them more susceptible to any bacteria? 

Offline emma_vn

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #55 on: November 25, 2007, 22:54:39 PM »
Yes thats right. James Wellbeloved used to be cruelty free but they have been nought out by Mars who own Pedigree Walthams *hiss*

Burns have just introduced a tinned food fort dogs, I'm hoping they will do the same for cats as they currently only offer dry which my cats like. But I like to give them tinned meals also.

Thanks for that, Gillian - I really didn't know that about taurine so I am glad you mention it. I pre-freeze after seeing a dog infected with a disease from raw meat, more for my dogs really, but that is food for thought - thank you  ;)

Offline Gillian Harvey

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #54 on: November 25, 2007, 22:52:54 PM »
Just FYI, Hills are one the biggest and worst culprits of laboratory animal testing in the world, its just not as widely publicised as the Iams thing. I work in a Hills practice but would not touch it with a barge pole myself.

 I also give complimentary turkey necks, but I would urge all you raw feeders to pre-freeze your meat if you're giving it raw.

One of the reasons why I changed to feeding a raw diet, because you can never be certain about these companies. Although I do feed some commercial diets, like applaws and natures menu.

Unfortunately freezing meat destroys most of the taurine, which as I'm sure you know is essential for cats. So if raw is the main diet you need to add taurine (and prob many other vits, minerals etc) if the meat has been frozen, which to my mind makes it no better than a commercial diet if you need to add things that have been lost via freezing/processing. Food moves much faster through a cats intestines than ours, about 12 hrs, compared to 30-50 hours for us!  :sick: Also their intestines are highly acidic so well able to deal with any bacteria. Anyway most domestic freezers are nowhere near cold enough to kill bacteria I'm afraid, so might just as well feed as nature intended!
 



Offline Millys Mum

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #53 on: November 25, 2007, 20:51:52 PM »
I contacted NM & Hilife a while back and got reasonable answers back so i think they are ok. Until they get brought out by a bigger fish that is.


Offline Desley (booktigger)

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #52 on: November 25, 2007, 09:26:04 AM »
Thanks for the info Emma, it really doesn't leave a lot to feed our cats though, does it? Would you know if any of the newer, expensive brands (HiLife, Almo Nature, Natures Menu etc) test on animals?
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Offline emma_vn

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #51 on: November 25, 2007, 09:10:37 AM »
We can email all the companies and let them know that unless they declare themselves as cruelty free and so become BUAV approved, we will tell all our friends.

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #50 on: November 24, 2007, 22:40:44 PM »
 :omg:  that is so gross, horrible - thank you so much for alerting us to this I had absolutely no idea about these totally unnecessary experiments.

The thing is what, if anything can we do about it??
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Offline emma_vn

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #49 on: November 24, 2007, 21:34:29 PM »
I did consider it. maybe Admin/Moderator could do so? Of course they could also remove the detail and just leave the list if they wish to, I understand as I run my own forum but I have the above info on my own as I wish to let people know what I do and I don't think I have been too graphic. I have edited to add a warning line.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2007, 21:37:20 PM by emma_vn »

Offline blackcat

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #48 on: November 24, 2007, 21:33:23 PM »
emma, we have a special requirement here that this sort of information comes with a warning in the thread line. There is also a yellow triangle alert thingy but not sure how to use it. As you did not originate the thread you can not change the title, but you should put a double font size warning a the top of your post so as to alert those who might find it too much detail... ;) YOu can go back and edit it now if you want

Offline emma_vn

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #47 on: November 24, 2007, 21:29:59 PM »
Just FYI, Hills are one the biggest and worst culprits of laboratory animal testing in the world, its just not as widely publicised as the Iams thing. I work in a Hills practice but would not touch it with a barge pole myself. I feed Burns, who are BUAV approved. I will admit to also giving my boys some Whiskas, but I know what harm is in every tin before I make my choice to feed it. Everywhere I go on the internet, people are kicking off about Iams. Yes we should boycott them, but not without realising what is on your cats plate is no better if you feed a supermarket brand.

I also give complimentary turkey necks, but I would urge all you raw feeders to pre-freeze your meat if you're giving it raw.

All of the following companies conduct cruel and unneccesary lab experiments and are currently still doing so here in the UK. Some of you might be surprised but I have researched this a LOT and know my stuff when it comes to these tests. If you don't want to read details of some experiments you shouldn't read on, but I feel this is important.

ALL of the following brands are still unethically manufactured, using outdated experiments in sterile lab environments here in our country.

***WARNING - DETAILS OF LAB EXPERIMENTS BELOW***

- Nestle Purina Petcare - Go Cat, Pro Plan, Purina, Bakers, Gourmet, Felix
One of the experiments conducted by this company involved keeping 48 dogs & cats in complete isolation for 15 years (unless death occurred sooner) ending as recently as 2002, one third being fed normally, one third being fed half what they should and one third being fed 50% too much. These animals were blood sampled & xrayed regularly to watch the effects of emaciation & obesity on their bodies.

- Hills Pet Nutrition - Hills, Science Plan, Nature's Best
36 kittens were kept in isolation for 13 weeks, being fed such low amounts that they weighed an average of 56% less than they should, all euthanased after the study. 36 adult cats were isolated and fed varying amounts of salt over a period of a month, most euthanased after the study. 42 puppies were fed a diet with no zinc for 2 weeks, then given a variety of zinc levels in their diets, the effects were so severe that this experiment was cut short early and all the puppies who they made suffer were euthanased and their bodies used for research.

- Proctor & Gamble - Iams, Eukanuba
28 young cats were induced into kidney failure by surgical removal of one kidney and intentional damage to the other, then fed various experimental diets. 2 died during surgery, all of them suffered and were very sick. They were all euthanased.

- Walthams - Pedigree, Royal Canin, Whiskas, Cesar, Sheba
All research carried out in the Pedigree Pet Centre, which houses hundreds of dogs, cats & birds for experimentation. Greyhounds were housed for their entire lives in isolation kennels smaller than the law regarding lab dogs allows, and that reg is small already! Cats were kept in complete isolation and fed only 40 calories per day for 12 months or until they died. Despite Walthams claiming all their research is non-invasive, every single animal housed there lives in a caged and at least partially isolated environment for their entire lives - when they go in, they don't come back out alive!


Hope this was informative and insightful - the more people that know, the better.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2007, 21:36:08 PM by emma_vn »

Offline Millys Mum

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Re: Fav catfoods
« Reply #46 on: November 24, 2007, 21:03:33 PM »
Taz has finally twigged you chew not lick  :Luv2: :Luv2: i use scissors to make strands hang off to encourage him to chew, easily bored if he doesnt get to eat straight away  :innocent:


 


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