Author Topic: increased drinking  (Read 376 times)

Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #52 on: August 14, 2018, 20:05:34 PM »
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Offline Desley (booktigger)

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #51 on: August 14, 2018, 13:55:08 PM »
No, they don't normally check blood pressure if using it for CKD, just to stop protein leaking into the urine. Glad she seems to have stopped losing weight, and is happy in herself, lovely looking girl.
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Offline dawnf

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #50 on: August 14, 2018, 13:53:16 PM »
yes Desley it does mention blood pressure in the literature, although nobody has told me they have taken her blood pressure, it also seems to be some kind of protein blocker - anyway if it helps that is fine.  I don't know if it is just us but we both said last night she looks like she has stopped loosing weight, we will see what the scales say next week she is very cheerful at the moment, she was bombing around in the garden last night she is such a big character.  anyway we will see how things go



Offline Desley (booktigger)

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #49 on: August 14, 2018, 13:31:46 PM »
Semintra is what my friend’s cat has been put on, despite not doing a urine test. It is actually a blood pressure medication, but they use it to help kidney function, my neighbours cat was on it for high blood pressure, although she had slight kidney issues too. The out of hours thing is a big thing, my neighbour wont change as even though the distance between mine and hers is similar if you need it at silly o’clock, she doesn’t like the drive to mine, but I prefer it as it is the main branch of my vets, so access to all their records, when you have cats with unusual, multiple health issues, that is a big bonus! And now they have stopped the out of hours consultation charge, so no worry about how much extra it will cost. Most people don’t even need to use it, but I think it needs to be factored in when choosing a vet.
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Offline Sue P (Paddysmum)

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #48 on: August 14, 2018, 08:05:13 AM »


Oh Dawn.  That's so poignant.  As I say to Barley:  Even big girls need their Mammies sometimes.  :hug:   Sending soothing vibes for Tilly. 

Age in cats is a strange business indeed.  I've lost  too many cats at the age of four and under, and I got one to "twenty anna bit" and I can't tell you how startled I was recently to realise Moray is now 5 years old.  It seems like only yesterday that we brought him home, having lost our gorgeous Ross.  And now the gurlies are almost 3.   

Whatever age Tilly is, you've made her recent years far better than she ever expected, bless you and your OH.   :hug:



Offline dawnf

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #47 on: August 13, 2018, 15:31:01 PM »
its the after hours thing I'm concerned about, although oh is keen

she is on her meds now its not a supplement I don't think, it is called semintra she was on my lap this morning, I can count the times on one hand!  bless her

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #46 on: August 13, 2018, 15:27:45 PM »
I would definitely be changing vets. :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2018, 16:08:11 PM »
OMG WHAT A MESS

MY FIRST TWO BIRMANS LIVED UNTIL ABOUT SIXTEEN SEVENTEEN, AND NAPOLEON STARTED HAVING SEIZURES, DUCHA HAD KIDNEY PROBS I THINK BUT EACH CAT IS DIFFERENT AND ALSO THE TYPE OF PEDIGREE

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Offline Desley (booktigger)

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2018, 12:55:41 PM »
hmm, maybe you should change then! Hope OH can hide his annoyance later. I'd be tempted to do it now actually, when Buster had his kidney removed, he was put on medication as my old vet had never dealt with it before (and how they operated is a story for another day!!), I then changed vets who questioned the meds, we took him off them for a month, re-tested him and his values actually reduced without the meds! So I may have bought him longer by changing vets.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 12:57:42 PM by Desley (booktigger) »
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Offline dawnf

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2018, 12:53:09 PM »
Once we know what is wrong I do think I'll change, I went to pick up the prescription and it wasn't there, then the receptionist found three pain killers out the back with tillys name on I said that I thought there should be more but she wasn't having any of it saying I must be mistaken  I asked her to phone the vet (who was at a different branch) and she said she will be consulting anyway I came away with three tablets for the bladder inflammation and a bad mood!  the vet phoned later to say she had forgotten to put the other item through, oh is collecting it today I'm hormonally challenged and can't face it  :innocent:

Offline Desley (booktigger)

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2018, 12:45:15 PM »
I've just googled the average lifespan of a cat, there is a lot of variance, some say 15-17, some 15-18, some 12, but then it changes for pedigrees, which one says is 10-13! No wonder two vets have different opinions. I still go off 14, but like humans you can have two the same age that act differently - Buster was more active at 17 than Lucy was at 8!
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Offline dawnf

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2018, 14:43:41 PM »
it doesn't help having two people involved they can't even agree on if she is old or not one said well she isn't old and the other well she is getting on a 13 year old Bengal  :Crazy:

Offline Desley (booktigger)

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2018, 13:53:20 PM »
Interesting that they are going to use supplements even though her numbers aren’t quite high enough, it’ll be interesting to see how it works. Surprised she thinks something like a bladder infection would cause weight loss. My friend’s cat has a similar weight loss with similar numbers, I wonder if certain body types just drop weight quicker than others? Hope the next visit shows better results. It is tricky when you are getting conflicting advice from vets, no wonder OH wants to change. In theory my out of hours is now further, but the normal opening hours are longer, so less chance of needing it, it's my vet so access to records, seeing someone I know (as I am an unfortunate client, I know all 7 vets!) and if it is silly O'clock the traffic will make the travelling similar to the old one. 
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Offline Sue P (Paddysmum)

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2018, 12:33:29 PM »



Yes, I can fully appreciate where your OH is coming from, Dawn.    Am sending him a hug too.   :hug:

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2018, 11:30:47 AM »
thank you sue, you are right of course  :shy:  although oh just can't get over amber being misdiagnosed for all those months - he really wants to change vets but I'm not sure now is the time, the out of hours is much further away with the other vet, not a problem until you need it of course!

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2018, 11:26:52 AM »


In some ways frustrating Dawn, but in others, at least it's not highlighted anything more sinister.  Am topping up the thoughts and vibes for Tilly.  Maybe she can shake this off, and hoping that when she has to go back in 10 days time, things might be clearer without the need for a scan.   :hug:



Offline dawnf

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2018, 08:57:43 AM »
the results are back from the urine sample, they show protein in the urine she said they wouldn't normally treat until the levels were 0.4 and tilly is 0.3 but said there is growing evidence for early treatment being a good thing so I'm picking something up tonight she also said there are signs of some inflammation in the bladder so it giving me a few days anti inflammatories, she wants more bloods in 10 days

I did discuss the weight loss again, she agreed that it was a lot of weight and that she couldn't really account for it, she had already said that she wouldn't expect to see symptoms in a cat with tillys numbers so the fact that she was drinking a lot could be something else, like a bladder infection, which the urine hasn't pointed to, anyway the plan is we give her the meds and in 10 days she goes back is weighed again and has the bloods - if there is a marked change in either we will arrange a scan to see if something else is going on

don't really feel any further forward but the good thing is she is totally unaware that she is ill and is carrying on as normal

Offline Desley (booktigger)

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2018, 13:38:02 PM »
They do indeed use similar testing kits R – I used to get the human ones from my neighbour and test Buster’s myself, and just take the dipstick to the vet! It is unfortunately a minefield when different vets have different ideas – I was horrified when my friends vet described hers as having months to live when his values were similar to Lucy’s – that was around March, when she went in May there was a locum who told her not to panic, his values were classed as early. She uses the practice I used to use, and the vet she initially saw was one I complained about for dismissing lumps that turned out to be mammary gland tumours! Creatinine is a better indicator, as raised Urea can be due to other things, such as infection or dehydration. Scales are a good idea – I bought baby scales rather than pet ones, they were about £50 from Argos but came in handy – when I got them, I weighed Buster before a vet visit, to determine their accuracy, and they were close enough to the vets. Ironically he didn’t mind being weighed at the vet, but hated it at home. Didn’t get far with Lucy though.

Glad the head vet seemed more practical about it, and testing to see which option is best for her is good, glad he also put your mind at ease about her weight not necessarily meaning something more sinister – although I can understand OH’s frustration! I hate receptionists who have issues with handing out blood test results – the branch I use are great, but the main branch are quite rigid. I completely understand they don’t necessarily have enough knowledge to know what some of them mean, but unfortunately I do. My old vets just refused point blank to give out print outs, my new ones seemed baffled when I was surprised at being offered a copy!
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Offline dawnf

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2018, 09:01:21 AM »
oh is pretty frustrated with the mixed information as you say, the first vet was talking about the urine being for toxicity and infection.  anyway I will hold fire until that comes back!  she is very forgiving my spotty girl, she hops out of the basket and has a snuffle to see what is for dinner!

Offline Rosella moggy

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2018, 08:56:39 AM »

Glad you got a chance to speak to head vet Dawn and that Tillys visit was quickly over for her.  Odd that previous vet was talking about sending sample away to check for infection and this vet saying it will be useful to decide how to proceed with treatment.

I find it difficult to process information methodically when one of ours is ill and find the numbers on blood results penetrate the information blocks that I erect far more easily than the spoken word.  Never can understand the reluctance to pass on blood results.  Find that irritating.

Have also experienced a head vet who roughly handled one of ours (our Tom RIP who wouldnt hurt a soul) and it was a very long time before ...... I was going to say forgave him but I never did ... more just let it go as he handled our Billy later extremely well.  Head vets pretty well always have bags of experience to offer which is what you need.

Assume you will hear by phone about results and suggest you ask vet for a print out then.

In any event well done Tilly darling for being so very well behaved
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Offline dawnf

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2018, 08:26:25 AM »
took her back for the urine last night, I saw one of the partners, who I've never been keen on because he grabbed her by the back of the head very hard once!  Anyway that aside he is a very good vet and explained that the urine sample will be useful for deciding how to proceed be it supplements, binders or renal diet he had another feel of her and said he was pretty sure there were no masses in her stomach and that loosing a kilo was reasonable with renal failure and didn't necessarily mean something else was going on - she was as good as gold I have to say, she had a full bladder so it was pretty straightforward and we were back home before she knew it

once the results are in I will make an appointment to go in and discuss further, I know what you mean about the numbers Rosella, the numbers the other vet gave me on the phone bear no relation to anything I can find but I'll ask for a print out, the receptionist wouldn't let me have it when I went in to pay on Friday but I'm sure the vet will 

Offline Frances

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2018, 18:17:07 PM »
I’m sorry Tilly’s diagnosis is unclear. 

As Gill says, Sasa has CRF, discovered when I took her to the vet for something else and on weighing her realised she had dropped from 4.47kg to 4.00kg in six months. 

She was not easy to get blood from – it took two visits, the second one with the vet, a nurse and me trying to keep her calm – and there was barely enough to test to confirm the vet’s suspicions.  I haven’t asked for numbers as trying to do any follow-up bloods is in the too difficult (and stressful) drawer.  She was offered a urine test if she was amenable to being pilled, but after consulting Gill, pilling was also crossed off the list.

She is on a mostly renal diet, both wet and biscuits, and is doing well on it.  Misa also has the renal biscuits, which will do him no harm, and will try to scoff her wet food given half a chance.  She returns the favour by nicking his Felix;  I’m just happy that she keeps on eating.   

Offline Rosella moggy

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2018, 15:58:55 PM »

Without knowing normal ranges for the createnine (upper and lower limits) can't think of much to add.  Think different labs use different tests so can't assume 212 is on same scale as for our Fred.

Never had a urine sample sent off for testing just bloods.  However I understand that urine testing kit used by vets is same as humans and moms sample has been sent off often enough if initial tests show leukacytes, the presence of which indicate infection present.  Sending sample away can then identify the particular infection and help decide on appropriate AB to try rather than broad spectrum AB

I think I would be asking vet a number of questions and would first ask to see blood and urine results to get a feel for the numbers. 

Createnine (rather than urea) is I believe the more important of the two when considering kidney function.

I think you just need a fair bit more info before deciding on way forward Dawn  :hug: :hug: 

I would also invest in weighing scales and keep an eye on your girls weight  :hug:
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 16:01:45 PM by Rosella moggy »
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Offline Desley (booktigger)

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2018, 14:00:37 PM »
A renal diet certainly isn't doing Lucy any harm in the muscle department! She is the third I've had that have that has gone back in normal limits just by changing part of their diet to renal - all have been early stages too. I know that one of the supplements isn't supposed to be used if they aren't leaking protein in their urine, which is the one my friend's vet has used, without doing a urine sample - she has now put him on renal food too.
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Offline dawnf

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2018, 13:44:56 PM »
not sure if I said thyroid was normal

vet was against renal diet, she said she needs protein for her muscle mass

I don't really know what to think I didn't realise you could turn the numbers around, I'd love her to put some weight back on she has been a steady 5.7 her whole adult life (nearly 13), all my past cats have died of cancer and so this is my first experience of kidney failure although I know it is common

Offline Desley (booktigger)

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2018, 13:36:24 PM »
My friend’s cat is similar Dawn – apart from I think his creatnine, his numbers were practically identical to Lucy’s, my vet has classed it as early stage and diet only, her vet was talking about him only having months! He has also lost a load of weight, I suggested she had his thyroid tested too, which was normal, and he had a bout of Pica the other week and still losing weight, yet Lucy is back within normal range and gaining weight, so it really does depend on the cat. She had her cat tested because of his weight loss, yet Lucy’s was picked up on her yearly bloods, although I suspected it. Interestingly my vet went for renal diet, her's went for a supplement - despite not doing a urine sample to check if it was what he needed.
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Offline dawnf

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2018, 09:03:03 AM »
that is the only possibility sue, although I've not seen any evidence of hunting for a little while and tilly is more often than not a birder - she has slowed down a lot in the last year or so.  A very good friend lost both of hers to poisoned meat (the neighbourhood has a rat problem) so it is something that worries me

Offline Sue P (Paddysmum)

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2018, 09:00:08 AM »


Ye Gods Dawn - you can talk, but you can't necessarily make people listen!   Being able to say "told you so" isn't always a great comfort though in scenarios like this, and I bet you felt well disgruntled.

On a poison point, is it possible that there could've been a poisoned mammal that's passed through the garden which Tilly has caught?  Am thinking maybe a mouse, rat or similar.  One of Tan's cats died as a result of just such an instance, and hers are all restricted access cats with a secure garden environment. 

Whatever is amiss, am topping up the good vibes for Tilly, and for you and your hubby too.   :hug: :hug:



Offline dawnf

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2018, 08:56:25 AM »
sorry can make a better reply now I'm not on a tiny phone screen!

oh took her in for the blood test, they decided they weren't going to sedate her and take it from her neck.  Oh said he thought that was a bad idea but they were sure, anyway as predicted she went totally nuts they told oh to go home and they would put her in a cage to calm down so by the time they got the blood (from the leg) it was 2pm and she hadn't eaten since the night before

anyway no Anaemia, Phosphorous low and electrolytes fine - she currently saying we will give her vit b and omega 6

the vet did in house urine but wants to send a sample away because she wants to see if there is an infection, she thinks that for early stage kidney trouble we shouldn't be seeing symptoms yet, she also mentioned poison, I'm not too worried about that because they don't leave the garden and we don't use chemicals in the garden although oh did say some of our plants could be a problem but she isn't a plant chewer

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2018, 22:40:35 PM »
FEEL LIKE VET IS MESSING AROUND AND NEEDS TO MAKE A DIAGNOSIS EVEN IF IT IS A TEMP ONE UNTIL MORE TESTS DONE

THAT AMOUNT OF WEIGHT SHOULD NOT JUST DROP OFF

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Offline Dawn F

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2018, 11:22:34 AM »
Urea should be 13 and other 212

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2018, 01:16:35 AM »
Sorry Dawn, nothing constructive to add, just  :hug: :hug: :hug: for you and Tilly.
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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2018, 22:42:52 PM »

Did vet give you normal range values for createnine and urea compare Dawn?  Poor Tilly and poor you  :hug:

Sounds good idea to send off 2nd sample for more thorough testing.  Did vet find suggestion of infection in first sample? 
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Offline Dawn F

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2018, 13:26:32 PM »
We have to go back Monday for a new urine sample the vet wants to send it away to check for infection or if she has injested something toxic she has ceratine of 226 the and urea 17 vet is against a renal diet now we have to have blood done again in two weeks she has lost a kilo an d is. 4.7 oh Convinced that it is something else
« Last Edit: August 04, 2018, 13:28:42 PM by Dawn F »

Online Misa

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2018, 21:31:08 PM »
I AM SO SORRY DAWN

SASA WHO IS IN HER EARLY TWENTIES HAS THIS AND IS ON A RENAL DIET, FRANCES HAS ALL THE DETAILS COS MISA AND SASA ARE STILL WITH HER

I HOPE YOU CAN GET A TASTY RENAL DIET TO HELP

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2018, 21:14:14 PM »
Poor Tilly. Hopefully you can get her a bit more stabilised with diet and supplements so you don't have to pill her.   

Offline Desley (booktigger)

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2018, 20:29:12 PM »
I'm Sorry to hear this Dawn, I know how much of a shock it is, even when you expect it. They can have years if caught early though, 16 months later Lucy's values are back in normal range, we've only changed her diet, my friends vet put her cat on supplements and he's also doing well
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Offline Lyn (Slugsta)

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2018, 20:18:16 PM »
I'm sorry to hear this Dawn  :(

Offline Dawn F

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2018, 19:09:57 PM »
It's early renal failure vet is talking about managing with supplements she is phoning tomorrow to discuss

Offline dawnf

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Re: increased drinking
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2018, 08:25:50 AM »
she has never intentionally bitten or scratched us but she is Bengal and very highly strung when out of her comfort zone, she also has the most alarming half growl half wail sound which tends to scare people!

 


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