Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat Health & Behaviour => Health & Behaviour General => Topic started by: dawnf on July 18, 2018, 10:01:40 AM
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I'm posting under my alter ego as I'm still having problems with my old log in
I've noticed over the past weeks tilly at the drinking fountain more than usual its worth saying I live in the south east of the country and so we have had a prolonged period of hot dry weather - have others noticed it or should I book a vet visit
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I would have a quick trip to the vet and get a full blood panel done checking for the usual ones diabetes - sugar curve and Hyper T just to be on the safe side and then should anything be iffy then you have a blood panel starting point should it continue
I am currently spending nearly an hour a day on water bowls, fountains and the dogs indoor and outdoor water bowls as the Clan are doing a lot of drinking
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How old is she now? 9? If so, I would get a blood test done to be on the safe side, it may just be the weather though
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getting on for 13 Desley, I'll make an appointment I think, the vet hates to see her more than she hate to see the vet!
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I had the same with Tiffany, who is 16 now - drinking and weeing for Wales she was, and I was convinced it was diabetes, CKD or HT - but a blood test showed all her levels were within normal range - even her teeth were in good nick
but it's a win win having these blood tests done because either you can start treatment for anything that is not right, or save yourself a lot of worry
she had to be sedated though - I did warn the vet in advance, and she reluctantly took my word for it and admitted her for the day - she did agree though, when I collected her, that the minute she opened the carrier she realised why I had asked for sedation :evillaugh:
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SUSPECT ITS THE HEAT, HOPE SO
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that's what I'll have to do, they'll get nothing without sedation which is one of the reasons I've held back doing it but you are all right, there is no harm, they can trim her nails at the same time!
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Let us know how she gets on Dawn. Very much hope it's simply the heat. Horrid (and expensive) having to sedate for blood tests. Means any treatment will be very tricky I imagine.
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yes rosella, that is my concern pilling isn't an option with her so we shall see
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secret I think is to find a sympathetic vet - mine totally accepts that Tosker and Tiffany cannot be pilled, and Tiffany cannot be handled much - so any treatments she recommends are designed to work around that, even to the extent of not treating at all
so much better all round than a vet who thinks finding the right pill to administer is all that is required
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AGREE WITH KAY AS MY VET IS THE SAME AND HE IS TERRIFIED OF LUPIN!
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My vet couldn't understand at all why I wore gloves the first time he went, he was loving, butter wouldn't melt Lupin, even when he was feeling better the following day after his drip, all the nurses were totally in lurve with him despite the "I Bite" label on the carrier.
The vet found out the second time when he went for his check up and jab. She said she had never seen a cat make such a fuss, and I had warned her not to take his temp. ;) (I needed the gloves, he nearly went through the leather as I held him), not surprised Gareth is terrified of him. :rofl:
Saying that, naughty and strong willed as he is I am No 2 in his fan club. :Luv:
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she has never intentionally bitten or scratched us but she is Bengal and very highly strung when out of her comfort zone, she also has the most alarming half growl half wail sound which tends to scare people!
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It's early renal failure vet is talking about managing with supplements she is phoning tomorrow to discuss
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I'm sorry to hear this Dawn :(
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I'm Sorry to hear this Dawn, I know how much of a shock it is, even when you expect it. They can have years if caught early though, 16 months later Lucy's values are back in normal range, we've only changed her diet, my friends vet put her cat on supplements and he's also doing well
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Poor Tilly. Hopefully you can get her a bit more stabilised with diet and supplements so you don't have to pill her.
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I AM SO SORRY DAWN
SASA WHO IS IN HER EARLY TWENTIES HAS THIS AND IS ON A RENAL DIET, FRANCES HAS ALL THE DETAILS COS MISA AND SASA ARE STILL WITH HER
I HOPE YOU CAN GET A TASTY RENAL DIET TO HELP
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We have to go back Monday for a new urine sample the vet wants to send it away to check for infection or if she has injested something toxic she has ceratine of 226 the and urea 17 vet is against a renal diet now we have to have blood done again in two weeks she has lost a kilo an d is. 4.7 oh Convinced that it is something else
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Did vet give you normal range values for createnine and urea compare Dawn? Poor Tilly and poor you :hug:
Sounds good idea to send off 2nd sample for more thorough testing. Did vet find suggestion of infection in first sample?
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Sorry Dawn, nothing constructive to add, just :hug: :hug: :hug: for you and Tilly.
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Urea should be 13 and other 212
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FEEL LIKE VET IS MESSING AROUND AND NEEDS TO MAKE A DIAGNOSIS EVEN IF IT IS A TEMP ONE UNTIL MORE TESTS DONE
THAT AMOUNT OF WEIGHT SHOULD NOT JUST DROP OFF
SENDING LOADS OF GOOD WISHES
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sorry can make a better reply now I'm not on a tiny phone screen!
oh took her in for the blood test, they decided they weren't going to sedate her and take it from her neck. Oh said he thought that was a bad idea but they were sure, anyway as predicted she went totally nuts they told oh to go home and they would put her in a cage to calm down so by the time they got the blood (from the leg) it was 2pm and she hadn't eaten since the night before
anyway no Anaemia, Phosphorous low and electrolytes fine - she currently saying we will give her vit b and omega 6
the vet did in house urine but wants to send a sample away because she wants to see if there is an infection, she thinks that for early stage kidney trouble we shouldn't be seeing symptoms yet, she also mentioned poison, I'm not too worried about that because they don't leave the garden and we don't use chemicals in the garden although oh did say some of our plants could be a problem but she isn't a plant chewer
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Ye Gods Dawn - you can talk, but you can't necessarily make people listen! Being able to say "told you so" isn't always a great comfort though in scenarios like this, and I bet you felt well disgruntled.
On a poison point, is it possible that there could've been a poisoned mammal that's passed through the garden which Tilly has caught? Am thinking maybe a mouse, rat or similar. One of Tan's cats died as a result of just such an instance, and hers are all restricted access cats with a secure garden environment.
Whatever is amiss, am topping up the good vibes for Tilly, and for you and your hubby too. :hug: :hug:
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that is the only possibility sue, although I've not seen any evidence of hunting for a little while and tilly is more often than not a birder - she has slowed down a lot in the last year or so. A very good friend lost both of hers to poisoned meat (the neighbourhood has a rat problem) so it is something that worries me
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My friend’s cat is similar Dawn – apart from I think his creatnine, his numbers were practically identical to Lucy’s, my vet has classed it as early stage and diet only, her vet was talking about him only having months! He has also lost a load of weight, I suggested she had his thyroid tested too, which was normal, and he had a bout of Pica the other week and still losing weight, yet Lucy is back within normal range and gaining weight, so it really does depend on the cat. She had her cat tested because of his weight loss, yet Lucy’s was picked up on her yearly bloods, although I suspected it. Interestingly my vet went for renal diet, her's went for a supplement - despite not doing a urine sample to check if it was what he needed.
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not sure if I said thyroid was normal
vet was against renal diet, she said she needs protein for her muscle mass
I don't really know what to think I didn't realise you could turn the numbers around, I'd love her to put some weight back on she has been a steady 5.7 her whole adult life (nearly 13), all my past cats have died of cancer and so this is my first experience of kidney failure although I know it is common
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A renal diet certainly isn't doing Lucy any harm in the muscle department! She is the third I've had that have that has gone back in normal limits just by changing part of their diet to renal - all have been early stages too. I know that one of the supplements isn't supposed to be used if they aren't leaking protein in their urine, which is the one my friend's vet has used, without doing a urine sample - she has now put him on renal food too.
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Without knowing normal ranges for the createnine (upper and lower limits) can't think of much to add. Think different labs use different tests so can't assume 212 is on same scale as for our Fred.
Never had a urine sample sent off for testing just bloods. However I understand that urine testing kit used by vets is same as humans and moms sample has been sent off often enough if initial tests show leukacytes, the presence of which indicate infection present. Sending sample away can then identify the particular infection and help decide on appropriate AB to try rather than broad spectrum AB
I think I would be asking vet a number of questions and would first ask to see blood and urine results to get a feel for the numbers.
Createnine (rather than urea) is I believe the more important of the two when considering kidney function.
I think you just need a fair bit more info before deciding on way forward Dawn :hug: :hug:
I would also invest in weighing scales and keep an eye on your girls weight :hug:
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I’m sorry Tilly’s diagnosis is unclear.
As Gill says, Sasa has CRF, discovered when I took her to the vet for something else and on weighing her realised she had dropped from 4.47kg to 4.00kg in six months.
She was not easy to get blood from – it took two visits, the second one with the vet, a nurse and me trying to keep her calm – and there was barely enough to test to confirm the vet’s suspicions. I haven’t asked for numbers as trying to do any follow-up bloods is in the too difficult (and stressful) drawer. She was offered a urine test if she was amenable to being pilled, but after consulting Gill, pilling was also crossed off the list.
She is on a mostly renal diet, both wet and biscuits, and is doing well on it. Misa also has the renal biscuits, which will do him no harm, and will try to scoff her wet food given half a chance. She returns the favour by nicking his Felix; I’m just happy that she keeps on eating.
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took her back for the urine last night, I saw one of the partners, who I've never been keen on because he grabbed her by the back of the head very hard once! Anyway that aside he is a very good vet and explained that the urine sample will be useful for deciding how to proceed be it supplements, binders or renal diet he had another feel of her and said he was pretty sure there were no masses in her stomach and that loosing a kilo was reasonable with renal failure and didn't necessarily mean something else was going on - she was as good as gold I have to say, she had a full bladder so it was pretty straightforward and we were back home before she knew it
once the results are in I will make an appointment to go in and discuss further, I know what you mean about the numbers Rosella, the numbers the other vet gave me on the phone bear no relation to anything I can find but I'll ask for a print out, the receptionist wouldn't let me have it when I went in to pay on Friday but I'm sure the vet will
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Glad you got a chance to speak to head vet Dawn and that Tillys visit was quickly over for her. Odd that previous vet was talking about sending sample away to check for infection and this vet saying it will be useful to decide how to proceed with treatment.
I find it difficult to process information methodically when one of ours is ill and find the numbers on blood results penetrate the information blocks that I erect far more easily than the spoken word. Never can understand the reluctance to pass on blood results. Find that irritating.
Have also experienced a head vet who roughly handled one of ours (our Tom RIP who wouldnt hurt a soul) and it was a very long time before ...... I was going to say forgave him but I never did ... more just let it go as he handled our Billy later extremely well. Head vets pretty well always have bags of experience to offer which is what you need.
Assume you will hear by phone about results and suggest you ask vet for a print out then.
In any event well done Tilly darling for being so very well behaved
:hug: :hug:
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oh is pretty frustrated with the mixed information as you say, the first vet was talking about the urine being for toxicity and infection. anyway I will hold fire until that comes back! she is very forgiving my spotty girl, she hops out of the basket and has a snuffle to see what is for dinner!
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They do indeed use similar testing kits R – I used to get the human ones from my neighbour and test Buster’s myself, and just take the dipstick to the vet! It is unfortunately a minefield when different vets have different ideas – I was horrified when my friends vet described hers as having months to live when his values were similar to Lucy’s – that was around March, when she went in May there was a locum who told her not to panic, his values were classed as early. She uses the practice I used to use, and the vet she initially saw was one I complained about for dismissing lumps that turned out to be mammary gland tumours! Creatinine is a better indicator, as raised Urea can be due to other things, such as infection or dehydration. Scales are a good idea – I bought baby scales rather than pet ones, they were about £50 from Argos but came in handy – when I got them, I weighed Buster before a vet visit, to determine their accuracy, and they were close enough to the vets. Ironically he didn’t mind being weighed at the vet, but hated it at home. Didn’t get far with Lucy though.
Glad the head vet seemed more practical about it, and testing to see which option is best for her is good, glad he also put your mind at ease about her weight not necessarily meaning something more sinister – although I can understand OH’s frustration! I hate receptionists who have issues with handing out blood test results – the branch I use are great, but the main branch are quite rigid. I completely understand they don’t necessarily have enough knowledge to know what some of them mean, but unfortunately I do. My old vets just refused point blank to give out print outs, my new ones seemed baffled when I was surprised at being offered a copy!
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the results are back from the urine sample, they show protein in the urine she said they wouldn't normally treat until the levels were 0.4 and tilly is 0.3 but said there is growing evidence for early treatment being a good thing so I'm picking something up tonight she also said there are signs of some inflammation in the bladder so it giving me a few days anti inflammatories, she wants more bloods in 10 days
I did discuss the weight loss again, she agreed that it was a lot of weight and that she couldn't really account for it, she had already said that she wouldn't expect to see symptoms in a cat with tillys numbers so the fact that she was drinking a lot could be something else, like a bladder infection, which the urine hasn't pointed to, anyway the plan is we give her the meds and in 10 days she goes back is weighed again and has the bloods - if there is a marked change in either we will arrange a scan to see if something else is going on
don't really feel any further forward but the good thing is she is totally unaware that she is ill and is carrying on as normal
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In some ways frustrating Dawn, but in others, at least it's not highlighted anything more sinister. Am topping up the thoughts and vibes for Tilly. Maybe she can shake this off, and hoping that when she has to go back in 10 days time, things might be clearer without the need for a scan. :hug:
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thank you sue, you are right of course :shy: although oh just can't get over amber being misdiagnosed for all those months - he really wants to change vets but I'm not sure now is the time, the out of hours is much further away with the other vet, not a problem until you need it of course!
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Yes, I can fully appreciate where your OH is coming from, Dawn. Am sending him a hug too. :hug:
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Interesting that they are going to use supplements even though her numbers aren’t quite high enough, it’ll be interesting to see how it works. Surprised she thinks something like a bladder infection would cause weight loss. My friend’s cat has a similar weight loss with similar numbers, I wonder if certain body types just drop weight quicker than others? Hope the next visit shows better results. It is tricky when you are getting conflicting advice from vets, no wonder OH wants to change. In theory my out of hours is now further, but the normal opening hours are longer, so less chance of needing it, it's my vet so access to records, seeing someone I know (as I am an unfortunate client, I know all 7 vets!) and if it is silly O'clock the traffic will make the travelling similar to the old one.
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it doesn't help having two people involved they can't even agree on if she is old or not one said well she isn't old and the other well she is getting on a 13 year old Bengal :Crazy:
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I've just googled the average lifespan of a cat, there is a lot of variance, some say 15-17, some 15-18, some 12, but then it changes for pedigrees, which one says is 10-13! No wonder two vets have different opinions. I still go off 14, but like humans you can have two the same age that act differently - Buster was more active at 17 than Lucy was at 8!
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Once we know what is wrong I do think I'll change, I went to pick up the prescription and it wasn't there, then the receptionist found three pain killers out the back with tillys name on I said that I thought there should be more but she wasn't having any of it saying I must be mistaken I asked her to phone the vet (who was at a different branch) and she said she will be consulting anyway I came away with three tablets for the bladder inflammation and a bad mood! the vet phoned later to say she had forgotten to put the other item through, oh is collecting it today I'm hormonally challenged and can't face it :innocent:
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hmm, maybe you should change then! Hope OH can hide his annoyance later. I'd be tempted to do it now actually, when Buster had his kidney removed, he was put on medication as my old vet had never dealt with it before (and how they operated is a story for another day!!), I then changed vets who questioned the meds, we took him off them for a month, re-tested him and his values actually reduced without the meds! So I may have bought him longer by changing vets.
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OMG WHAT A MESS
MY FIRST TWO BIRMANS LIVED UNTIL ABOUT SIXTEEN SEVENTEEN, AND NAPOLEON STARTED HAVING SEIZURES, DUCHA HAD KIDNEY PROBS I THINK BUT EACH CAT IS DIFFERENT AND ALSO THE TYPE OF PEDIGREE
YOU NEED A VET YOU CAN TRUST AND DOESNT SOUND THAT YOU HAVE
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I would definitely be changing vets. :hug: :hug: :hug:
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its the after hours thing I'm concerned about, although oh is keen
she is on her meds now its not a supplement I don't think, it is called semintra she was on my lap this morning, I can count the times on one hand! bless her
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Oh Dawn. That's so poignant. As I say to Barley: Even big girls need their Mammies sometimes. :hug: Sending soothing vibes for Tilly.
Age in cats is a strange business indeed. I've lost too many cats at the age of four and under, and I got one to "twenty anna bit" and I can't tell you how startled I was recently to realise Moray is now 5 years old. It seems like only yesterday that we brought him home, having lost our gorgeous Ross. And now the gurlies are almost 3.
Whatever age Tilly is, you've made her recent years far better than she ever expected, bless you and your OH. :hug:
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Semintra is what my friend’s cat has been put on, despite not doing a urine test. It is actually a blood pressure medication, but they use it to help kidney function, my neighbours cat was on it for high blood pressure, although she had slight kidney issues too. The out of hours thing is a big thing, my neighbour wont change as even though the distance between mine and hers is similar if you need it at silly o’clock, she doesn’t like the drive to mine, but I prefer it as it is the main branch of my vets, so access to all their records, when you have cats with unusual, multiple health issues, that is a big bonus! And now they have stopped the out of hours consultation charge, so no worry about how much extra it will cost. Most people don’t even need to use it, but I think it needs to be factored in when choosing a vet.
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yes Desley it does mention blood pressure in the literature, although nobody has told me they have taken her blood pressure, it also seems to be some kind of protein blocker - anyway if it helps that is fine. I don't know if it is just us but we both said last night she looks like she has stopped loosing weight, we will see what the scales say next week she is very cheerful at the moment, she was bombing around in the garden last night she is such a big character. anyway we will see how things go
(http://i67.tinypic.com/140mc9f.jpg)
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No, they don't normally check blood pressure if using it for CKD, just to stop protein leaking into the urine. Glad she seems to have stopped losing weight, and is happy in herself, lovely looking girl.
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BEAUTIFUL GIRL
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bit of an update, she has been back for blood this morning weight is stable and kidneys the same, however the liver value has doubled vet is suggesting either scan with a specialist or leave for three months and retest and she is happy in herself, eating, playing and being tilly - I can't decide
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Looking at Semintra on NOAH it says: "Elevated liver enzymes have been very rarely observed and values normalised within a few days following cessation of therapy." Is this what has come up on her liver values?
As she is happy in herself and is "being Tilly", I'd be inclined to go for "watchful waiting" and take her back sooner than three months if anything changes.
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yes frances I think that is what she said, I should have written it down, but I am meeting with her after work so will ask about this again and take a note pad!
I am going for the waiting route myself at the moment I think, she hates being messed about and it was raining this morning and she was so funny running about trying to dodge the rain, she really doesn't seem ill at all
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As her weight is stable, and she is fine in herself, I’d be tempted to leave, although 3 months seems a long time, I’m sure when Busters were randomly out we re-tested after a month.
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I spoke to oh at lunchtime, he thinks 3 months is too long as well, he has suggested two months with us weighing her at home tonight and then weekly at home, I think I will suggest that
I know she is being cautious after what happened with amber (her tumour was missed and she was treated for 5 months for cat flu) which is why she is saying the specialist who comes once a week will do the scan and not one of them!
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That sounds a good plan.
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Gah, just lost my post. I'll try again.
Dawn you need to know exactly what liver values are affected. A doubling may sound dramatic but if it's just transaminases (ALT and AST or SGOT and SGPT as they used to be called) then it's unlikely to be of major concern provided other values like bilirubin are within the normal range and there are no clinical symptoms.
To put it into perspective, in humans an elevation in transaminases is described as a mild increase until it goes above 5x (or in some labs 6x) normal. Many drugs cause clinically insignificant increases in transaminases. Obviously worth keep an eye on both her values and her clinical condition though. Personally I wouldn't be too worried by the 3 months but I can understand your concern (and your vet's) after your experience with Amber, so 2 months sounds like a good compromise.
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thank you Carol! I've noted that down, I'm sure the vet will think I'm a pain but :P
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its the alt, its gone from 237 to 553 the vet was quite dismissive of the medicine being to blame but if it hasn't changed next time I would say there is a good chance. if it has gone up further she wants to investigate for lymphoma, she thinks it unlikely at the moment as everything else is fine but we will see
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Such a worry for you Dawn! :hug:
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That’s interesting Carol – I’m sure only ALT and ALK-P are checked on standard blood tests, I know one of them the vets weren’t bothered when they changed with Buster. Shame she was dismissive of it being related to the medication.
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TTHATS A WORRY AND SOUNDS LIKE THEMEDS TO ME
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HOW ARE THINGS GOING DAWN :hug:
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thanks for asking Alison, she is still drinking more she doesn't seem to have lost any weight, on my scales at home for the last two weeks has stayed at 10lb she is fine in herself not sure what to make of it really
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Glad she is seeming fine in herself, that is promising. We might not be able to reverse the damage, but seems like she is responding and can stay stable.
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VERY GOOD NEWS, KEEP ON LITTLE LOVELY
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VERY PLEASED TO HEAR THE NEWS DAWN :hug:
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Just catching up with this Dawn, and so pleased to hear the news. Glad her weight is remaining stable. Sending snoozles to her from me, Moray, Malt & Barley. :hug: :hug:
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tilly went for bloods at the beginning of the year, I chased up the results today and they say her creatinine is in the normal range, urea slightly up and weight stable so just to carry on as we are for now. she seems fine in herself and tolerates the medicine very well so I'm happy to go with that plan
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That seems really reassuring Dawn. I'd be happy to go with that too. :)
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So pleased to hear that Dawn. Well done Tilly. Keep it up kid :Luv:
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That's great news Dawn, thanks for the update ;D
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Glad things seem to have settled on the meds, and that her weight is stable.
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I'm worried about tilly now. she is still taking the medicine but is eating less and had an infection after her dental a few weeks ago which set her back a bit, she is not as agile as she was which I know can be an issue relating to kidney function I know and is looking very thin. she still isn't in a kidney diet and is due to go back next week for her next set of blood tests. she was around 4kg about three weeks ago but I'm pretty sure less now, I'm going to weigh her tonight - anyway my ramblings are because I am wondering how long in reality can a cat with kidney issues go on, she has been seeing the vet for this for well over a year and is a fussy eater so I'm not sure how well she will do on a kidney diet if that is the next step, in reality I don't want her to know she is ill and after the horrible experience of keeping amber going for much longer than should have happened I don't want to do the same thing again. help and thoughts please
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I’ve had experience of CRF in two cats. The first belonged to my mum, diagnosed at around 8yo and switched to Royal Canin renal sachets and biscuits (plus the odd cooked chicken treats). She was still on this diet when she went to a long term fosterer age 12 (my mum went into a nursing home) and survived happily to the age of 14 when the CRF finally got her.
The second was Gill's cat Sasa (Sasa and Misa both "lodged" with me), diagnosed at age 19 when she showed significant weight loss. I was uncertain whether she would accept a change of diet so got a sample pack of RC renal https://www.vetimed.co.uk/en/pet/product/royal-canin-feline-renal-palatability-pack/ (https://www.vetimed.co.uk/en/pet/product/royal-canin-feline-renal-palatability-pack/). She ate these without a problem so I switched her to the sachets and biscuits (Misa also ate the biscuits on the basis that they would do him no harm and if he had lurking renal problems might do some good). She did stop losing weight; she also stopped “howling” as much (can be a symptom of CRF). She remained well until the day before she died in her sleep age 20.
From this experience, if any of my cats was diagnosed with CRF I would want to switch them to a renal food. This could be a problem with James, who is also a fussy eater, in which case a phosphorus binder such as Ipakitine (powder sprinkled on "normal" food) could be an alternative.
As far as how long to persevere with an ill and/or declining cat is concerned, I found using the Quality of Life scale immensely helpful for both Sasa and Misa: https://www.catster.com/lifestyle/cat-health-care-euthanasia-decision-quality-of-life-scale (https://www.catster.com/lifestyle/cat-health-care-euthanasia-decision-quality-of-life-scale).
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In theory, they can live with kidney failure for years as long as it is being well managed, but equally, some cats don’t respond or accept things so may only have months, I’ve had both ends of the spectrum. It certainly isn’t called an emotional rollercoaster for nothing. Lucy has had early stage for 2.5 years now, she has only had a diet change, with no medication, but we can’t put her on a fully renal diet, so hers is a mixture of renal, senior and adult. Tilly might surprise you diet wise, I’ve had very few refuse to eat biscuits, and Lucy was on 50g pouches as she wouldn’t eat 100g ones, but yet will happily eat renal food! I also started with one of the RC Palatability packs, she now has 4 different brands of renal wet, including one that also has joint support in. I don’t think you can make any decisions till you know what her current bloods are like, her agility could be age rather than kidney issues.
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thanks for the input both, its the best thing about purrs :hug: I think she just looks old now she used to be so muscular you can feel every bone now but I was upset yesterday when she was jumping on the furniture and didn't make the other side and fell, it was a jump she would have done with her eyes shut before - i'm open to trying anything as long as she is happy her last lot of bloods showed no change so there is every chance that might be the case again - she is 14 at the end of November but a pedigree so at a bit of a disadvantage
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a pedigree so at a bit of a disadvantage
Georgie, my mum's cat, was a rescued pedigree Persian - 14 is about average for the breed so CRF or not she did okay.
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what a lovely girl, dilute torti?
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dilute torti?
I believe so, all her papers went with her when she was fostered. My mum's friend volunteered for Shropshire Cat Rescue and my mum was persuaded to take Georgie as a short-term foster because she had experience of Persians. Epic fail on the fostering front! Georgie hadn't been well looked after and was a bit of a mess mentally and in her coat. She spent the first year mostly behind the sofa but slowly progressed to become a real cuddlebum. I was sorry not to be able to keep her but my own cat at the time had left his previous home because he didn't get on with other cats.
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Dawn loosing weight and suspected kidney issues can also be Hyper T or diabetes both mask CRF - we have had the lot so are pretty good at the signs a simple blood test could tell you all you need to know numbers for bloods etc may be worth visiting before the required appointment to try and put you mind at rest x
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Oh Dawn. My heart goes out to you. I have a photo of Paddy taken when he was in his prime, and he was a little stunner, but as he succumbed to hypert and kidney issues, he was like a little bag of bones.
To see Hilly not make the leap must have been so difficult for you. Xxx
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My Old Dear Jo's Macavity, was on a kidney diet for years, wet and dry from the vet, he lived on for more years than she did, he was about 17 when he was PTS. :'( I can't remember the make, but they were white boxes with photo of a tabby on them.) I think James Well Beloved, but wouldn't swear to it, i just know it was quite expensive,, she used to order it and I used to collect it.
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thanks all, I knew I could rely on you :hug: on my drive to work this morning I had decided to get a selection of kidney food and see what she makes of it, she was on good form this morning and ate very well
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Yay!! That's great to hear, Dawn :wow:
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That's very good news Dawn!
Frances, thank you so much for that link with the End of Life scores, I have not seen it before. I have always wondered whether I let Chivvy go too soon (we were going away the next day for OH's birthday and I was put under a great deal of pressure >:() but that has helped enormously.
The only experience I had of renal failure was with Cleo, who we took over when my SIL went abroad. Cleo was perfectly well until the Friday, a bit off colour on the Saturday (when she was still purring at the vet, as usual), bloods taken for diagnosis on Monday, but mortally ill by the Tuesday when we said our last Goodbyes. It is good to know that this is the exception rather than the norm!
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I can post some to you Dawn, Lucy has 3 flavours of Royal Canin, 2 flavours of Purina NF, Kattovit and Hills KD + Mobility.
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that would be amazing thank you - I'm was looking earlier and thinking how good it would be to be able to get a selection box. send me a message with your address and I'll send you the money :hug:
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Now I have seen the names I remember it was Royal Canin wet and Hills biscuits. :-[
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No worries, just message me with your address, don’t worry about the money, call it a birthday present 😊Are there any flavours she isn’t keen on? Think Lucy has beef, chicken, tuna, salmon and turkey.
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lol thanks Desley, but then what do I get you for your birthday! I'll message you
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vet thinks she might have hyper thyroid, her weight has gone down to 3.3 they have done a full geriatric blood panel and will know more next week - she looks so frail it is ridiculous but in herself is just the same old tilly :(
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Fingers crossed for the blood tests, my vet won’t treat hyper-t if they have kidney issues, as the increased blood flow helps the kidneys so treating the thyroid can make the kidneys worse.
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she did say there would be issues but said we would talk it all over when the results are back - she is so small now its very sad :( she is almost half her weight in her prime
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Hi Dawn. I've read through this thread. Don't know if I've missed something but did you ever get a copy of blood results that show creatinine and urea that also show normal range for comparison?
Has Tilly been tested for diabetes? Glad that she is being tested for T4 for hyperthyroid again but a bit confusing that she doesn't seem to be showing usual clinical sign of wanting to eat alot altho I hear that's not always the case.
What's her toileting like? Is she being sick?
If she has both thyroid and kidney issues it's complicated. I've read that latest thoughts are to still treat the hyperT as it is the more serious of the two conditions. Maybe trying to keep the T4 levels in upper end of normal range to help the kidneys. Also thyroid meds are better introduced gradually to allow body to adjust to them.
It's horrible watching a loved one waste away. Noni is also now just above half her former weight and very boney around neck and back end. Also not as stable as she was in back legs due to muscle wastage. She is driving me nuts to be honest and I've been driving my poor vet nuts in response. Looking not at all well last week and playing football with a rogue ball she discovered under settee last night. She is eating us out of house and home.
T4 for thyroid has been within normal range as have kidney results etc. She has increasingly raised liver enzymes ALT & ALP (occurs in both hyperthyroid and IBD)
She has also had sloppy poo for years often with blood in it which points towards IBD. IBD can often depress T4 results so one of our clever young vets Jackie suggested testing fT4 to rule out thyroid and hey presto it was raised. She has now been retested. T4 still in normal range but fT4 much higher. It's been a long journey to where we are now.
Currently waiting to speak to vet at Hyperthyroid Centre in Wetherby on tuesday morning to try and get her in for radioactive iodine treatment. I'm told that his initial thoughts are that she's not straightforward. No idea if I'm doing the right thing due to managing her IBD which flares up occasionally but she's just finished another course of B12 injections and is now on B12 sprinkled on food every other day.
Sending hugs and everything crossed that the results give you some answers next week Dawn :hug: :hug:
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Dawn and Rosella :hug:
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thanks so much, this is what I appreciate so much about purrs
anyway events have over taken us, I got a call while cooking dinner on Friday night to say the results had just come in and I had to take her as a matter of urgency to the out of hours service, her creatinine was over 700 and should be under 140 so the upshot is my poor girl has been in all weekend having her kidneys flushed, I was allowed to visit on Saturday and she seemed perky and was eating again, at that stage her number was in the 500's but she is being retested this afternoon and all being well can come home - oh and I spent half Friday night asking ourselves if we should let her go but the vet wasn't in agreement and says she thinks she can bounce back from this - the thyroid didn't even get a mention, I will have to ask later
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Dawn :crossed:
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Dawn, thinking of you and sending every good wish and tons of snoozles xxx
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vet has just called, she can come home this evening, star has an appointment tonight anyway so we will collect her then - she said her numbers are down (she wouldn't say what said we would discuss later) but will never likely be in the normal again, she does seem to have her appetite back though
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Creatinine at that level confirms the CRF diagnosis for sure I would say Dawn. Fluids can certainly make a major improvement. I recall thinking that recovery following fluids would only be relatively temporary but was proved wrong by another Purrs member whose cat went on for a while after fluid therapy. Will have a look see and see if I can recall who it was.
Sorry Dawn, I can't find who it was. We let Freddie go when the result came back over 900. It was off the scale and he was obviously uncomfortable.
I'm quite sure you and hubby will be able to tell when Tilly is no longer enjoying her life. Tanya's website (the go to feline CRF bible) helpfully mentioned to look out for circling when trying to lie down as if can't get comfortable. That's what happened with our darling Fred RIP
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Sorry to hear her bloods were so far out, the fact they have come down so much on fluids and she is well enough in herself is a positive sign. Would be worth asking the rest of her results, see if it shows a reason for the sudden spike as she has been on treatment – Buster’s was an infection. Am glad the vet is positive about it and that she is coming home tonight.
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I do have a list of other things, apparently the pospherous was bad but also considerably down - I think it may be partly my fault that it has happened, instead of giving her medicine in her mouth since her dental and the subsequent infection I've been putting it in her food so I'm not messing her about too much, she clearly hasn't been getting her full dose and of course as that happened she was eating less and it became a bit of a vicious circle
oh and I are thinking if it happens again it will probably be her time, she isn't suited to spending days in a cage, it was always my hope that she wouldn't know she was ill
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Ah, dental and infection could have been enough to tip her kidneys over, if so, this could just be a blip and not a sign she is getting worse. Assume the vet will suggest a check up when you collect her but if not, I'd take her back in either a fortnight or a month for a repeat test
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that is the worrying thing, they are saying three months, the vet also suggested she go on medication - one they have been prescribing for over a year
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3 months is standard, but after a spike I wouldn't want to go longer than a month. Odd they would try and prescribe the meds she's already on!
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the trouble with our vets is that there are three branches and the staff work all over the place, its really hard to see the same person twice - I would have thought reading her notes would be normal though, I may say something tonight once I have her back! yes oh is keen she go back more regularly as well
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well she is home, she has taken up residence on the kitchen table near a radiator, she has eaten half a pouch last night and half this morning (but not renal food which I am supposed to be giving but she won't eat ) and I saw her use the tray - she is moving at speed I'll give her that but doesn't seem herself, oh thinks her legs are hurting where the drip was - her numbers are in the 200 now, she is back at the vet tomorrow night
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Thanks for the update Dawn. I am glad that your girl is home and hope she continues to improve :hug:
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Yes, it does make it harder, mine has 3 branches and they rotate due to the shift patterns/holidays, but we have fairly set days at the branch I use, which is why Lucy generally only goes on a Tue or Thu, as we now only have one vet who can do acupuncture (there were two when we started!). Glad she is home, not surprising she doesn’t seem herself, but at least she is eating (even if not the right thing!) and has used the tray. That is a good reduction, good luck for the check up tomorrow.
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Everything crossed that the check up goes well today Dawn, and Tilly. :Luv: :hug: :hug: :hug:
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How did you get on, Dawn
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unfortunately they cancelled us, we go tonight, the good news is she is eating the royal canin pouches but only in the tuna flavour but it is a start, she seems brighter I think, hopefully she has put on a tiny bit of weight
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Sending tons of good wishes for today, Dawn. :hug:
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I'm glad that she is eating again Dawn, hoping it goes well later. :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Sorry it got cancelled, fingers crossed for tonight. Good she is eating some renal, I've always found the Tuna was the best received of RC.
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I've always found the Tuna was the best received of RC.
Me too, although I kept a box of the chicken handy just in case Sasa ever changed her mind ;).
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that is interesting to know! before she was very ill she ate everyone I tried! I'm hoping as she feels better she will eat the others, typically I got 48 of the chicken and only 12 of the tuna and beef!
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It is normal for them to go off their usual food when ill, I had a nightmare finding something Lucy would eat after her op, ironically the food she ate was one she refused before! Hopefully as she feels better she will eat the others. Of course it could be because you bought more of that flavour!
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How did it go Dawn?
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well she hasn't put on any weight, she will need another blood test in a month, was a vet I hadn't seen before but would see again she seemed quite with it, oh tried to press on her on timescale she said months but obviously not how many
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I don't know what to say Dawn, :hug: :hug: :hug:
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I'm rather resigned to it now Paula, not like last Friday night when I turned up at the vet like an extra from kiss (thanks for telling me oh!) we take a lot of comfort from knowing she has never, in all of her 14 years, known a day of hardship unlike willow and star
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Glad you had a nice vet. I wouldn’t be so concerned she hasn’t put weight on so soon, but good she hasn’t lost any. Really glad they want to repeat bloods in a month, hopefully this was just a blip and she will be back towards normal.
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the purina food was delivered to work today so will see how we get on with that
I really appreciate all the feed back about this, she was the reason I joined cat chat 13 years ago, I'm sure she would be pleased we are still talking about her!
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she seems to be peeing in her sleep :(
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Oh Dawn. How is she otherwise?
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she has moments of her old self - but often looks like she isn't sure what is going on - just spoke to oh, he said she was sitting on the table and started to pee, he put her in the tray and she got straight out, then went back in and went
she isn't eating much and went not on the kitchen table is in the box room and buries herself under the covers :(
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Aww, sorry to hear that Dawn.
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:hug: :hug: :hug: Dawn.
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You'll do what's right at the right time. Which doesn't make it easier.
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Not at all, but you do have us and your OH who is just as invested n Tilly to support you. :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Dawn :hug: :hug:
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she has had a mixed weekend, very quiet on Saturday and just sitting in urine until I changed her puppy pad spoke to the vet and agreed to take her in yesterday for the final time she was a bit perkier on sunday and even came to have a look at us painting the bedroom ceiling. Anyway we took her on Monday and the vet said she didn't think it was her time and that the peeing is just part of life I have to live with, not really sure what to make of it, anyway she is home back on the kitchen table (anyone know how to get pee out of wood!!) on a pile of towels and a puppy pad
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Urine can burn tender skin, but if she's not showing any signs of discomfort and can handle being gently cleaned up when she has an episode, then I would see how she goes Dawn and take each day at a time. :hug: :hug:
Hydrogen peroxide based solutions are generally good at removing urine stains from most surfaces, but the issue with wood is that it can swell, and of course certain finishes such as varnish can lift. Might be an idea to put puppy pads over the table top, towels over those and then more puppy pads on top of the towels for the time being.
Sending very much love to you both.
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thanks sue :hug: no she doesn't look uncomfortable just sad, but of course that is my perception she is eating a bit but has food an water up with her I don't know if I should be encouraging her to come down from the table and she might use the tray, not sure
I think the table is a goner to be honest, before I realised she was peeing she was on a coloured towel which has leached into the wood, it is only waxed so it is badly stained, we can buy another table
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Dawn vet bed is the best thing for this situation if you have any it means the wee doesn't stay near the skin, we had HRH on it for a year till she decided it was time to go to the other side, did save the couch as well, can you sand the table and re varnish x
She will let you know when it is her time x
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thanks Liz, I'm popping out to PAH at lunchtime so if they have some I'll pick it up, typically I had some knocking around for years and got rid of it a few months ago - I appreciate your input, its hard to know what is right, on Saturday I was sure she was ready but on sunday she was on hind legs scratching the plum tree which made us think she wasn't
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I’m not sure I’d agree with your vet, it’s clear her quality of life is deteriorating if she doesn’t want to come down off the table to toilet. Yes you could live with her peeing, but is it fair on her?
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that was my thought too desley, tbh we are taking it day by day, oh is convinced they just want to keep her going so we have to pay for another blood test, I'm not that cynical yet but as most of you know we lost amber is a very destressing way and I swore that would not happen again
couldn't get to pah at lunchtime, traffic a nightmare due to nato summit in local posh hotel - who would believe it
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Oh Dawn :hug:. I have to say I agree with Desley about your vet and Tilly’s quality of life. However, you and OH are with her and we are not – if she still “being Tilly” and not in distress then day by day is the only way to go.
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she has moments frances, apparently she jumped out from behind a bush in the garden at oh this morning -he is with her more than me as I work so I have to be guided by him I just wish we had a vet we had a relationship with rather than feeling each is pushing an agenda she did a bit of running last night (she has always only done two speeds asleep and fast) so that was nice to see, she ate very well last night as well but this morning only picked
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Dawn, only you and OH will know when the time is right, today she sounds as if she has picked up for a little while.
When Trouble stopped playing was when I decided his quality of life had gone, he played almost up to the end, not for as long, and it was nore up close and personal, things that tickled his paws as he couldn't really see very well. I don't know if that helps or not, but Tilley still seems to have a sense of mischief. :Luv:
:hug: :hug: :hug: So hard. :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Dawn :hug: it is such a difficult decision and one only you, and your OH, can make. Yes, be guided by your vet, but you know Tilley best . . .
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we still see bits of the old tilly, and weirdly (and thankfully) she is getting down from the table to use the tray to poo, she is eating felix, chicken and ham (yes I know) but frankly she can have what she likes as far as I am concerned, oh is still trying with the renal heated up but he has more time to do that sort of stuff so I'm happy for him to give it a go - I don't think it will be long but we keep on
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It certainly isn’t called an emotional rollercoaster for nothing unfortunately. Sorry you don’t feel like you have a good relationship with your vet, it is so crucial in times like this. What does OH want to do?
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he is a bit happier with her at the moment, she is responding to him well and likes being fussed by him (she has never liked being fussed by me!) as she is so up and down it changes hourly what we think, I imagine that if she seems withdrawn for more than a day that will be time
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Dawn, you will know Honey. Thinking of you, OH and, of course, Tilley. :Luv: :Luv: :Luv:
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Very much in my thoughts, too, Dawn xxx
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Sounds like a good plan Dawn, glad OH seems that her quality of life is good enough at the moment x
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she is quiet but gets very lively when the cooked chicken comes out of the fridge, I think when that stops I'll know - she is doing the stairs herself which she wasn't before she was admitted to the vet and still potters in the garden a bit
I appreciate all the support I am getting here :hug: only cat people understand - nobody here as asked "are the cats still alive"
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I am sorry if others have asked the very unfeeling question, but why would we? :hug: :hug: :hug: We have all been where you are now. :hug: :hug: :hug:
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So very true, Paula.
Dawn, you know we're with you all the way to the end, and all praying that's the very best it can be when the time comes xxx
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So very true, Paula.
Dawn, you know we're with you all the way to the end, and all praying that's the very best it can be when the time comes xxx
Ditto :hug:
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you lot are the best :hug:
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my beautiful girl has gone, we took her in yesterday afternoon
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Oh Dawn, my heart goes out to you and your OH. I think we all know just how you must be feeling and at times like this knowing you've done the right thing does little to help with the pain of loss. :hug: :hug: :hug:
Run free at the bridge Tilly.
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Dawn, I am so sorry, I know that your heart is torn into bits :hug:
RIP Tilley, run free at the bridge sweet girl :RIP:
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Dawn my thoughts are with you and your OH at this very sad time, its the last we gift we give them eternal peace and the hardest thing we do through the tears x
Only ever borrowed never owned but always a paw print in your heart x
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you loved her very much, you cared for her wonderfully until your care could do no more, and then you released her
she was a very lucky girl to have you
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I can only echo what others have written. You and OH gave Tilly your best including letting her go when the time was right. Thinking of you both :hug:.
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I’m so sorry to hear that Dawn, RIP Tilly x
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Dawn I'm so sorry. But you have your girl every opportunity which counts for everything.
My heart aches for you. Tilly will be a huge miss. Nothing we can say will make any difference but I hope you know we're with you, and we wish Tilly a safe journey. Xxx
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So sorry Dawn, I wasn't expecting this quite so soon, it has brought tears to my eyes and my thoughts are with you and OH. :hug: :hug: :hug:
Run free on The Bridge Tilley. :Luv:
You and OH have done the best thing for your Girl. :care: :care: :care:
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thanks for all of your support, you have no idea how much it meant to me to be able to turn to you :hug:
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Just wanting to give you a hug, Dawn. :hug: :hug:
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Oh Dawn. I've just seen this. My heart goes out to you. Truly it does. The feeling of emptiness is unbearable I know but you know you did the right thing by Tilly to let her go.
RIP beautiful darling angel. You were so very much loved :'( :'( :'(
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just heard my lovely girls ashes are back so it seemed like a good time to say thank you all for your support and put up a picture of her
Tilly 28.11.05 to 11.12.19
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Oh, treasure. Bittersweet. :hug: :hug:
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What bittersweet timing for you. Lovely pic of her, how are you all coping? X
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Thank you for sharing the photo with us Dawn. I'm glad that your lovely girl is back home with you, where she belongs :hug:
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She was so pretty, don't forget she'll be waiting on The Bridge for you. :hug: :hug: :hug:
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How are you Dawn? :hug: :hug: :hug: :blow kiss: :care: :care: :care: :blow kiss:
I lost Trouble a few days before Christmas, cast a complete pall over it. I do understand. :hug: :hug: :hug: It's awful. I am thinking of you.
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SO PLEASED SHE IS BACK HOME WITH YOU, SUCH A BEAUTIFUL GIRL
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thanks all, yes she is home, although of course my vet charged for a dog cremation initially so that was a bit of a faff I didn't need tbh Paula I lost my dad on 22 December so am a bit of a pro but thanks for thinking of me Paula :hug:
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No thanks necessary, that's what friends are for. :hug: :hug: :hug: All me Purrs Pals are family,
Weirdly, that's my parents wedding anniversary, :shify: