New cat....or no new cat?

[Miroslav]

Yes, I agree Gill.

In the middle of going on as many lists as possible.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Thre will be waiti ng lists forever so names need to go on asap

[Miroslav]

Small update

My sister has moved out and left her husband to deal with it.

She did call a few places but no space but she didn't leave names on a waiting list and he isn't going too even though he doesn't want her cats - he will feed them for the time being.

He thinks the waiting lists will only be a  few weeks so will phone later.

So i've said I will contact them all and give the details to see if we can make something happen.

[Miroslav]

My local has 'chalets' and people who foster too.

Not that it's easy to get any information.

When I lived in Ely the local cat protection was just a bunch of people who fostered cats from home so no actual centre. So probably the same with your local one.

[Miroslav]

I've had two replies.

Just saying they are full and apologies for the delay.

Apparently had a call from a female looking to re-home two cats but left no name. Was advised to contact others as I have already suggested.

If it was her, she won't listen.

Preaching is good - sometimes 

It's just they have a PO Box - I don't actually know where they are.

They have a Grand Fair on Sept 6th, 2 minutes from where I work....

Ah - the Secret Service branch of the Cat's Protection world.....     Go, beard them in their dens, Miroslav.   

[Mymblesdaughter]

When I lived in Ely the local cat protection was just a bunch of people who fostered cats from home so no actual centre. So probably the same with your local one.

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

Preaching is good - sometimes 

It's just they have a PO Box - I don't actually know where they are.

They have a Grand Fair on Sept 6th, 2 minutes from where I work....

Ah - the Secret Service branch of the Cat's Protection world.....     Go, beard them in their dens, Miroslav.   

[Miroslav]

Preaching is good - sometimes 

It's just they have a PO Box - I don't actually know where they are.

They have a Grand Fair on Sept 6th, 2 minutes from where I work....

Sometimes you have to go and get what you want, Miroslav, and not expect others to appreciate your urgency.

If it matters to you - and you have the time - go see these folk  talk to real people  Don't leave it to impersonal e-mails or faceless phone calls  Get hands - on 
Believe in your message, you have the ability to change the world, if not for everyone, but maybe for one small and otherwise insignificant cat 

CP in  my experience are (for want of a better word) Awesome but you need to talk to them in person to Get where they are at.

Up to you now.

Sorry I love to preach 

[sheilarose]

Sometimes you have to go and get what you want, Miroslav, and not expect others to appreciate your urgency.

If it matters to you - and you have the time - go see these folk  talk to real people  Don't leave it to impersonal e-mails or faceless phone calls  Get hands - on 
Believe in your message, you have the ability to change the world, if not for everyone, but maybe for one small and otherwise insignificant cat 

CP in  my experience are (for want of a better word) Awesome but you need to talk to them in person to Get where they are at.

Up to you now.

Sorry I love to preach 

[Miroslav]

Well, i've fired off an email to another lady at Cats Protection.

I think it's a shame. As a cat lover, as an animal lover, that some places are run this way.

I have done all I can - I am just concerned. I know she won't just dump them. Deep down I know that, but my sister just thinks of herself first and she'll just leave them with her 'husband' to deal with. I may text him as may get a response from him. He's more mature and likely to make the effort.

As you've experienced yourself Miroslav, not all of the CP places are run in the same way, and unfortunately, like many charities, some are not run particularly efficiently.  It's a shame to waste good and keen volunteers.

There are good and bad out there, but I think your lady is one who would indeed put people off.  Such a shame.

In  terms of your sister - you've done what you can.  Don't be guilt-tripped by her.  It isn't fair on yourself.   

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

As you've experienced yourself Miroslav, not all of the CP places are run in the same way, and unfortunately, like many charities, some are not run particularly efficiently.  It's a shame to waste good and keen volunteers.

There are good and bad out there, but I think your lady is one who would indeed put people off.  Such a shame.

In  terms of your sister - you've done what you can.  Don't be guilt-tripped by her.  It isn't fair on yourself.   

[Miroslav]

Well, my sister isn't actually replying...

Text about the cats and she ignores. Text about something else, she replies, so then I say something about the cats and.....nothing. I'm trying to help.

Are you Cats Protection? My local branch is awful - at least at communication.

20 years ago I asked about a cat. They visited me at home, said everything was fine and they'd be in touch - they never were.

3-4 years ago I asked about volunteering - they said they would send details out in the post. It never arrived, I had to hassle them like crazy and I got a pathetic leaflet on how baking cakes would help.

I believe the same woman has been the 'boss' for many years and she puts more people off than gains supporters, I would imagine.

I know the staff/volunteers are usually great in these places though - real animal people. Just some of the people who run them are terrible at their jobs.

Snuggle with Grandma? 

Its always harder when you know the cats involved isn't it. I would tell your sister that she should ring around everywhere including CP to get the cats on waiting lists herself. Now - here's the reality our waiting list is about a year long at the moment so the sooner the better, she can always change her mind later and remove the cat(s) from the list. And you should not worry about them if they do go into a rescue. Working in one myself I can assure you that the people coming to adopt cats are lovely and whats more they have a situation at home where they are wanting a cat to be there and are at a point in their life where that is right for them.

then go home and snuggle down to your grandma  did i really say that! - you know what i mean  give Minty a head rub from me too x

[SamMewl]

Its always harder when you know the cats involved isn't it. I would tell your sister that she should ring around everywhere including CP to get the cats on waiting lists herself. Now - here's the reality our waiting list is about a year long at the moment so the sooner the better, she can always change her mind later and remove the cat(s) from the list. And you should not worry about them if they do go into a rescue. Working in one myself I can assure you that the people coming to adopt cats are lovely and whats more they have a situation at home where they are wanting a cat to be there and are at a point in their life where that is right for them.

then go home and snuggle down to your grandma  did i really say that! - you know what i mean  give Minty a head rub from me too x

[Miroslav]

Well, i've suggested it to her but she's ignoring. I guess she sees the Cat Protection League as the only option?

No, she just wanted to know if I would take them and said it was my choice and if not she'll call CP. She knew I may have been able to take them and asked her if it ever came down to it, to ask me first.

It needs to be either the owner or with the owners express permission.

If your sister is stalling now I think its time to be direct with her - if she's giving up the cats she needs to make that decision now - but CP also have waiting lists so she's going to have to make her mind up.

I don't suppose she's using this as an emotional bargaining tool to change your mind about taking them in? If so that's pretty low. 

[sheilarose]

It needs to be either the owner or with the owners express permission.

If your sister is stalling now I think its time to be direct with her - if she's giving up the cats she needs to make that decision now - but CP also have waiting lists so she's going to have to make her mind up.

I don't suppose she's using this as an emotional bargaining tool to change your mind about taking them in? If so that's pretty low. 

[Miroslav]

Is it down to me or does the 'owner' need to do it?

It does worry me - their are 3 options I think and if they can't wait to get rid and have to wait, i'm not sure how patient they would be.

I'm not saying they would dump them, but something is not right - she's ingoring all of my suggestions bar cats protection.

What are you waiting for? Phone that number and get them on the waiting list today!

Seriously Miroslav, the kids break up this weekend, and any sensible parent looking for a cat/s will be looking today so they have the whole summer holiday ahead to settle the cat/s in with their kids.

Go for it! 

[sheilarose]

What are you waiting for? Phone that number and get them on the waiting list today!

Seriously Miroslav, the kids break up this weekend, and any sensible parent looking for a cat/s will be looking today so they have the whole summer holiday ahead to settle the cat/s in with their kids.

Go for it! 

[Miroslav]

Thanks' i'll need it.

I'll look into Sue's suggestion of posting on rehoming, but i've had a reply from one place I contacted.

Thank you for your email.
In regards to your sisters cats, we are unable to take them straight away.
As you can imagine, we are full at the moment.
If you or your sister could contact the centre on 01458 252656 and put them on our waiting list. I would not be able to give you a time frame as it works on the basis of, if one cat goes home then one cat can come in.
If you would like the cats to be homed together then that’s what would be stated in their information for homing.
We would of course vet the people first and do home checks to make sure the cats would be ok there.
We would not contact you or your sister to let you know how they are doing in the centre but if you or your sister phoned in to ask about them then that would be ok.

You'll get common sense and support right here, Miroslav. 

[sheilarose]

You'll get common sense and support right here, Miroslav. 

[Miroslav]

Heather, Sue, Sheila - Thank you, I agree with you all - it just doesn't feel fair and i'll live with the 'what if' for a long time.

People do put pressure on me 'to do the right thing', even when they aren't very good at it themselves.

I don't see why one of them can't keep them. I dread to think who is going to keep the Chinchilla's and the Rats.

Then their are the children...

[sheilarose]

Agree with Sue. I think you know in your heart, Miroslav, that you can't assume reonsibility for these cats. For once then allow your heart to decide and push those guilty feelings back onto the people who should be harbouring them. 

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

Then it's guilty hats off all the way Miroslav.  You have enough to deal with.   

The time may come, when Minty has crossed to the Bridge that you decide you just want to have a bit of time for yourself - on the other hand, you may decide you want to bring another cat (or cats)  into your life.  I would hope that decision (whatever you decide) will be yours, and yours alone, and not influenced by the people you share your house/life with.  Sounds to me - forgive me for being blunt - it sounds to me like you could do with some support, rather than proclamations, irritations and judgment.   

If you feel it would be a possible solution, why not put their details together in a post on the re-homing section - in the heading, state the area where they're currently located, and give as much detail as you can about their characters, ages, preferences etc.  It might result in a potential new home for them, and if it does, your desire to see them settled would be achieved.  If it doesn't, then you've done all you can for them without assuming direct responsibility - something your family could try.

(By the way - I meant putting the cats details together, but you may decide you'd fare better advertising your family for re-homing and keeping the cats  )

And remember - we can choose our cats.  We can't choose our family.   

[heather sullivan]

Poor cats, thats not fair on them being given away, the owners should be more responsible and look after their pets . My sister is going thru a divorce and she kept the cats, no way would she have rehomed them. They are  family pets. Hopefully you will find a nice home for them together.

[Miroslav]

Guilty hat off

Honestly, after Minty goes, and I hope it's a while yet, I will need a break, although i'm not sure how I will cope after all this time with no cat.

Guilty hat back on

I just don't want the two cats to go elsewhere and never knowing what happens to them.

The vet said it may not be right for Minty and household says no anyway, so not an option.

I would really like to see them rehomed together and not forgotten as they do know me and although I don't love them as I do my own, I care for them none the less (and would have grown to love them as I got to know them better) as i've seen them many times and they come to me when I visit (they don't go to other visitors).

[sheilarose]

I'd be asking the same, but replacing the word "Minty" for "Mirslav" ie is it fair on you to absorb these cats into your life when it would disrupt and possibly spoil all your future plans?

That's not love, Miroslv, that's drudgery. 

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

Miroslav - what about you:  what do you want?  You've told us what everyone else thinks, but what about you?

Take any feelings of guilt out of the equation - if they weren't there, what would you like to do?

[Miroslav]

Development...

Unfortunately, my sister and brother in law are getting divorced. She doesn't want to take either cat, he doesn't want to keep them.

They have been offered to me - I needed to ask those I live with and the vet to see if it was fair on Minty.

Those I live with think it would not be right to take on any more cats - i've given up 20 years with no holidays for not wanting to leave my cats and feel once Minty has gone, I should live a bit before taking on any more.

The vet i've yet to ask, but I know the answer will be 'unfair on Minty' as I feel that way myself.

So 

Is their anyway that some place will take them on and I can pay for them to be fed etc and/or sponsor them?

The thought of them being seperated and losing their home makes me  They are about 10 and ....3?

I know i've asked this before, but I just need some reassurance really. I feel guilty these two cats that always sit on my lap when I visit, are going to lose it all and could end up anywhere 

[Miroslav]

Well, you could always take her on, and if it doesnt work out with Minty, Fearne may have a space for Xsar if she's already on their waiting list.  If it works out, and you decided to keep her, you could simply withdraw her name from their waiting list.

They would want to know as much as possible about her, as it will help them to assess her needs and try to place her in the right home.

Thanks and sorry I haven't replied sooner.

As it stands, Xsar is still in her original home - i've not been around for a few weeks due to work and surgery, but they assure me she's improved a little. They say they are going to try a feliway diffuser.

I mentioned alot to Fearne about Xsar, but it's also not my place to say too much as she's not my cat

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

Well, you could always take her on, and if it doesnt work out with Minty, Fearne may have a space for Xsar if she's already on their waiting list.  If it works out, and you decided to keep her, you could simply withdraw her name from their waiting list.

They would want to know as much as possible about her, as it will help them to assess her needs and try to place her in the right home.

[Miroslav]

That's sad, to think they still want to re-home her, but ultimately, if Xsar isnt wanted, it may be best for her, poor little girl.  Ferne's website looks very well set up, and sponsoring an animal for £25 a year is very reasonable in the circumstances.

Given that you havent had a break in 20 years, and given Minty may not adapt well to sharing her home with another cat, the sponsorship idea might be the more acceptable option.  Only you can decide what you want to do ultimately, and I expect that introductions with Minty could be managed, but if Xsar is the cat responsible for the inappropriate toiletting (and I guess there's a fifty/fifty chance it may turn out to be the other cat!) then you would be taking on quite a handful, and you dont know what has triggered the inappropriate toiletting so it could be trickier to fix.  (On the other hand, she may not do so if she has a different environment)

I think they would keep her if she behaved - they can't risk their tenancy.

I've asked Ferne for more details - I can't find many cats on the site - they say they have loads, but not alot are on there.

I am still thinking....would it be any harm to give Xsar a chance? If it doesn't work out, then Ferne are there. That said, Ferne replied to me earlier saying they are full and have a long waiting list.

"Thank you for your enquiry.  As you can imagine, we do get very full and have a long waiting list.  We would need fuller details about the cat in order to consider her for rehoming.  Age? Sex? Neutered? Colour? Good with children? Good with other cats/dogs? On receipt of this information I would be happy to put the cat on our waiting list and call you when space becomes available.
 
I can confirm that the cats usually share living space, unless this becomes too stressful for them.  They are fed usually twice daily unless there is a special dietry requirement, and as much time as possible is spent socialising with them, although we rely heavily on volunteers for this when we get very busy.  Any medical issues are dealt with swiftly by a local vet, who also visits us regularly to carry out health checks, and all our cats and dogs are brought up to date with their vaccinations and flea/worm treatments.
 
We endeavour to get them photographed and put onto the website and any potential adopters are home checked before we agree to them going ahead.  We try and keep in touch after adoption, and adoption is usually followed up with a volunteer home visitor, if we have any working in the area.  We maintain a duty of care towards all animals adopted out, and therefore stress the need for adopters to contact us should they find it difficult to carry on caring for their pets."

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

That's sad, to think they still want to re-home her, but ultimately, if Xsar isnt wanted, it may be best for her, poor little girl.  Ferne's website looks very well set up, and sponsoring an animal for £25 a year is very reasonable in the circumstances.

Given that you havent had a break in 20 years, and given Minty may not adapt well to sharing her home with another cat, the sponsorship idea might be the more acceptable option.  Only you can decide what you want to do ultimately, and I expect that introductions with Minty could be managed, but if Xsar is the cat responsible for the inappropriate toiletting (and I guess there's a fifty/fifty chance it may turn out to be the other cat!) then you would be taking on quite a handful, and you dont know what has triggered the inappropriate toiletting so it could be trickier to fix.  (On the other hand, she may not do so if she has a different environment)

[Miroslav]

Understand competely what you mean about the "in and out" culture."  What we love about our pet sitter is that she lives at ours for the duration of our break.    And she feeds the birds for us and waters our plants and gets on great with our neighbours.  When she knew our elderly neighbours next door were poorly, and that we used to get their paper and shopping for them, she did the duties for the week too.  She's a gem!

As for the owners of Xsar and her housemate, it's so sad that they aren't willing to try and work to resolve the problem, and instead would prefer to make rash decisions over their future.  I hope that ultimately they may be able to get a loving new home where they can be together, and that you Miroslav aren't guilt tripped into doing anything that you're not comfortable with. 

It's rare to find someone so trustworthy and reliable - I am jealous!

Well, i've had contact after I got in touch. They are still getting rid of Xsar - it may be to here http://www.ferneanimalsanctuary.org/ It doesn't tell you alot on the website but I have contacted them for some information.  I am told by her owner that they have a living room with litter trays toys etc and an outdoor grass area to run and play. Some animals stay their whole lives, others are rehomed. It sounds good - i'm just not sure if I want her to go. Their is the option of sponsoring a cat for a year for £25.....I could do that and ask for progress reports etc.....Oh I don't know 

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

Understand competely what you mean about the "in and out" culture."  What we love about our pet sitter is that she lives at ours for the duration of our break.    And she feeds the birds for us and waters our plants and gets on great with our neighbours.  When she knew our elderly neighbours next door were poorly, and that we used to get their paper and shopping for them, she did the duties for the week too.  She's a gem!

As for the owners of Xsar and her housemate, it's so sad that they aren't willing to try and work to resolve the problem, and instead would prefer to make rash decisions over their future.  I hope that ultimately they may be able to get a loving new home where they can be together, and that you Miroslav aren't guilt tripped into doing anything that you're not comfortable with. 

[Miroslav]

Miroslav, if they're asking you to take on their cat - their potentially "problem cat" then I do think you have the right to ask some pertinent questions.

If it offends them, when you're seeking to help their cats, then maybe it would be beneficial for their cats to be rehomed together, and they can enjoy their sofa and their tenancy without any risk of anxiety or offence.   

I agree with Liz - we have a pet sitter who is worth her weight in gold, and she looked after our elderly cat for us when we had him.  I know I never enjoyed leaving him, but I always knew he was in very capable hands, and he was very comfortable with her.   The trick is to get one you can trust, and one that your cat feels comfortable around.   When we "interviewed" potential pet sitters, she was the only one I instantly felt comfortable with, and when she met our pets they were relaxed and happy around her, so we knew she was the one.   I dread the day she retires!

I was asking as I would take the other one too if they were concerned about tenancy etc, but I was also hoping that they would try out the suggestions given here before offloading the cat (s). They don't have much patience with animals.

I will look into pet sitters in the future if needed. The company that took us to the pet crematorium for the 4 we have lost do a pet sitting service, but looking at their personalities (the staff I have met) i'd be concerned it was too clinical as they don't have the personality I could feel comfortable about. I'm not saying they don't love animals, they may well do, but they seem like and 'in and out' culture whereas i'd want my cats to be given some time.

Hopefully she won't retire soon - when good people retire, it's so hard to replace them.

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

      Had no contact for two days after I asked some questions - I hope I didn't offend them by questioning what goes on.           

Miroslav, if they're asking you to take on their cat - their potentially "problem cat" then I do think you have the right to ask some pertinent questions.

If it offends them, when you're seeking to help their cats, then maybe it would be beneficial for their cats to be rehomed together, and they can enjoy their sofa and their tenancy without any risk of anxiety or offence.   

I agree with Liz - we have a pet sitter who is worth her weight in gold, and she looked after our elderly cat for us when we had him.  I know I never enjoyed leaving him, but I always knew he was in very capable hands, and he was very comfortable with her.   The trick is to get one you can trust, and one that your cat feels comfortable around.   When we "interviewed" potential pet sitters, she was the only one I instantly felt comfortable with, and when she met our pets they were relaxed and happy around her, so we knew she was the one.   I dread the day she retires!

[Miroslav]

Just to say if you can have a pet sitter then you can have breaks, I have a few more than most and keep them all grounded and have 2 lots of sitters, one pops in 4 times a day and did the Hyper thyroids and my Diabetic and the dogs and my senile dementia girl go to the cattery and kennels respectively and this time round I have my sister and my friend coming with her dog and cat so my dogs stay at home, the cats are grounded and I have my diabetic and dementia girls at the cattery

I have wonderful kennels/cattery with a great owner and pet sitters worth every penny I pay them and I have peace of mind and 6 weeks a year out in Azerbaijan with my husband something we didn't have in the great plan a year ago so it can be done just takes a lot of planning and finding the right people or cattery

Does the little lady have a name

Pet sitters may be worth thinking about in the future. I won't be going anywhere until  Minty has gone anyway. She's 19 but I hope it's a long time before I think of going away although  know it won't be that long. 6 weeks in Azerbaijan is a very distant thought!!

Xsar is the cats name (if you meant the cat  )

Had no contact for two days after I asked some questions - I hope I didn't offend them by questioning what goes on.

[Liz]

Just to say if you can have a pet sitter then you can have breaks, I have a few more than most and keep them all grounded and have 2 lots of sitters, one pops in 4 times a day and did the Hyper thyroids and my Diabetic and the dogs and my senile dementia girl go to the cattery and kennels respectively and this time round I have my sister and my friend coming with her dog and cat so my dogs stay at home, the cats are grounded and I have my diabetic and dementia girls at the cattery

I have wonderful kennels/cattery with a great owner and pet sitters worth every penny I pay them and I have peace of mind and 6 weeks a year out in Azerbaijan with my husband something we didn't have in the great plan a year ago so it can be done just takes a lot of planning and finding the right people or cattery

Does the little lady have a name

[Miroslav]

I also havent had a holiday since 1993 cos a cat walked into my garden and that was it!

I lost her after moving here some 8 years ago but within 7 days had two new cats cos couldnt stand not having a cat around!

Have gone from there to 4 lost one and got another and am now at 3!

Good luck with your decision

It sounds as though we both have the same problem of falling for our feline friends and not being able to live without them 

[Miroslav]

they say she wees on the sofas overnight but poos in the tray.

Is there only one tray?  Locking two cats in a room overnight sharing one tray to both pee and poo is not a very good idea   The other problem is of course the difficulty of getting rid of the smell of urine from the sofa.  It may not seem too smelly to a human but a cat's nose is far more sensitive and they do tend to pee in the place that already whiffs of pee.

Yes, just one tray. They should have more. We have a very similar, if not smaller place and we had 5 trays - 1 per cat - not that they kept to one each mind!

I do worry that the cat can still smell it - they say they use anti bacterial spray, but I guess that won't rid of the smell.

[Miroslav]

Oh Miroslav   The fact that you're caring is your biggest possible pitfall here.

I'm sad to learn that heartache has been such a big part of your life, but I hope that means you've had a lot of loving too, as the counter point. 

To not have had a break away longer than 2 days in 20 years is a huge commitment that you've given to others, so maybe now is the time to be a little selfish for once, and think of yourself? 

Would it be worthwhile suggesting to the people who've asked you to take this cat to consider working with a pet behaviourist to see if they can establish what the problem is with the cat that's weeing (whichever one it turns out to be?)   It seems to me they need to show a little commitment too.   If they dont want to (or cant afford to) what about them reading a few useful books or articles about cat behaviour?

The second article on this link may be useful for example

http://www.wayofcats.com/blog/


In case the link doesnt work, this is Pamela Merritt's reply to a reader who had a question about cats who wouldnt use the iltter box after an incident.

"If our cat has an incident with the litter box, whether physical (pain and illness) or mental (being startled in the area,) they could be practicing avoidance even after the incident has been taken care of. We need to get them to see the litter box as their friend, again.

Here’s the steps to reboot our cat’s head:

Illustrate the issue. We need to let our cat know we understand that something had gone wrong. We’ve been to the vet, or fixed the rattling blinds, or cured the cat conflict that had them being jumped on their way to the litter.

Open the subject for discussion by visiting the litter and asking thing how things have been going, lately.

Demonstrate the solution. Show them that we’ve finished the antibiotics — Look, I’m throwing the pill bottle away! Mention that their friendship a former rival has improved — Mr. Whiskers isn’t being mean to you anymore!

Whatever the problem, you have taken steps.

“Fix” the litter box. We know the problem wasn’t with the litter box… unless it was. In any case, we have to change something about the litter box, so it is now a New Litter Setup. Choose a different, but similar, litter. Get a new box. Move it a bit.

This is tough, because we often feel that we had chosen the best setup already! But remember, once we have them using the box again, it’s easier to change it back.

Encourage them to visit. Get excited and lead them over to the litter box. If they don’t mind being carried there, try that. Call their name, and see if we can at least get them to stick their head around the corner.

Don’t despair if we don’t get much cooperation at first. We have piqued their interest, and they often investigate on their own after we’ve alerted them.

Create new routines. Make a big fuss over cleaning the box. If we were already fussy, go to the box and exclaim over how clean it is.

Make a point of cheerfully visiting the box, with a big show of inspecting everything. It’s because we care.

Remove anxiety. If our cat is still apprehensive, we need to address that. Try the tips in my post about reducing cat stress. They need to calm down so they can think, and realize things are better.

Now we and the cat can enjoy our new, and improved, litter box."

To work with the cats in situ would seem to be the ideal solution,  as the cats wouldnt then need to be separated.  They could try the litterbox in a different room - the bathroom or kitchen for example. 

I appreciate this isnt really your problem, even thought they may be trying to make it your problem, but I hope they would be willing to invest some time and effort into sorting this out, for their benefit and ultimately for their cats.  And bless you for caring about the outcome. 

Not a lot of love, but current girlfriend is superb and well worth the wait  And my cats were a loving bunch 

I do need to be more selfish - I give up things all the time - I just don't want to have poor kitty be unhappy.

To be honest, i'm not sure they are the type - no i'm sure they are not the type, that puts in endless effort and they give up pretty quickly - pets are like ownership to them, not companionship. The first time of trouble.....their other pets didn't survive very long. I'm not saying they mistreat them, far from it, they just don't know how to look after them properly beyond the feeding of. They also 3 loud screaming kids that i'm sure doesn't help. I don't think they will put in the effort with a behaviour therapist.

Thanks for the link and the reply from the other website - I will look at it in more depth tomorrow - off to bed shortly as I have to be up for work at 5am. Minty likes bedtime as she gets to lay inbetween my partner and me - spoilt 19 year old grandma!