Topic: Arthritis/injury - management and pain relief (Read 25721 times)

weesilvie · « **Reply #31 on:** December 08, 2012, 10:05:04 AM »

Just a short update this time as I'll no doubt have more to add next week.

Was at the vet with Silvie this week for her routine check up, collection of drugs and her booster jag. It was a new vet I saw this time as the one we usually see is on maternity leave, but she she came well recommended. We discussed Silvie's injury and the vet let me feel both her elbows (Silvie's elbows, that is!) so I could note for myself the difference - the injured left one is much 'thicker'.

Up until now I have been reluctant to put Silvie forward for more conventional investigation and treatment as I've felt sure it will all show what we already know and that nothing more except what we're already doing could be done. However, I am now persuaded (and perfectly comfortable) that this injury has gone on too long and we ought to have a closer look at it. So, on Tuesday we have an appointment with a specialist orthopaedic vet. I think he will recommend X-raying her again. The trouble is that the initial X-rays which doiagnosed her arthritis were done at a different practice (where I lived previosuly), so the current practice don't have copies. Also, those X-rays indicated the problems to be with her rear legs/hips etc and this is her front leg. Regular vet said he also suggested doing a 'tap' on the joint whilst she's under for the X-ray, to rule out any infection in the joint (that's apparently taking a wee spot of fluid out of the joint to test).

Thank the lord Silvie is insured - the consultation alone will cost around £100 apparently, because he's a specialist and because his consultations are an hour long! I'll need to do some research and prepare a long list of questions for him to fill the hour up and get my money's worth!

weesilvie · « **Reply #30 on:** November 10, 2012, 14:27:55 PM »

Hello all

I was at the vets yesterday with my guinea pigs for a check up and took the opportunity to ask the vet about Silvie and her issues. I told her that I'd found the vetergesic impossible to administer properly. She asked me if I'd be happy injecting it. Afraid I don't fancy doing that, unless Silvie's life is depending on it! She said that the vetergesic can be given with food but that it just won't have quite as much effect as it won't have as mcuh contact with the gums etc for absorption. I will start trying this tonight.

I also asked what they might find if they X-rayed and what they might do about it. She said that arthritic joints might have a bit of extra growth around them and that can sometimes get chipped with the chips then floating around in the joint which can cause pain. However, these chips can sometimes dissolve on their own in a few weeks and they likely wouldn't consider surgically removing them anyway. I let her know my reluctance to put Silvie through being X-rayed if the likely result was confimring what we already suspect and that nothing could or would be able to be done about it anyway. I explained that I didn't think the injury was currently serious enough to warrant it all (Silvie can still jump up and down from the kitchen work surface when it takes her fancy, even if she does have a bit of a limp and sits with one paw held up!) Current cold weather also won't be helping. I think she understood.

The vet did suggest trying the Hill's Science Plan prescription diet j/d and sold me a couple of tins http://www.hillspet.co.uk/en-gb/mobility/cat.html - I'm happy to try that, nice and easy for both her and me! It looks and smells vile - like minced offal in gravy - but Silvie seems to like it! So I started that last night and will give it a proper go - says it can take around twenty one days to show results and you have to introduce it slowly over a week.

I have also finally got around to looking up green lipped mussel which someone recommended - http://www.arthritissupermarket.co.uk/Pernaton-Green-Lipped-Mussel-Extract-350mg-caps. Silvie is due at the vets around Christmas time for her booster so I will ask the vet about it then, once we've seen how the Vetergesic and the new food is working - to check if it's OK alongside everything else (the diet, Metacam and Seraquin). I might also ask about acupuncture, although I have to admit that I am also reluctant to go down that road - not becasue I'm a sceptic but because it will mean taking Silvie regularly to wherever does it, which she will not like. I don't expect she'll enjoy it any more than going to the vets which she hates!

We'll see, I'll keep you updated

cazzer · « **Reply #29 on:** November 03, 2012, 10:23:26 AM »

My OH can do Ginger very easily. I can't though. I'm afraid I wait until he is half asleep or a least a bit 'dopey' and then do it!

fluffybunny · « **Reply #28 on:** November 03, 2012, 09:06:33 AM »

I don't have any experience of oral vetergesic, Milly had hers by injection after her recent injury (she too is on daily metacam for arthritis/spondylosis), I just had to keep taking her back and forth to the vets for a few days as it needs to be given IM and doesn't last too long in the system...which is presumably why you've been given it in this form so it can be done at home. It did make her somewhat spaced out, giant saucer eyes and a bit drowsy but not to an extent that made me concerned. Hopefully you can work out a way to get it safely into your little one, and that she recovers well soon x x

LouiseJ · « **Reply #27 on:** November 02, 2012, 21:07:47 PM »

Don't know if it will make a difference but you can get syringes from Boots.
Came in very handy when I was trying to get my Chelsea to eat.

weesilvie · « **Reply #26 on:** November 02, 2012, 18:05:16 PM »

Afraid that's not going to work with this one - its supposed to be absorbed in the mouth so can't be given with food. Managed to squirt it all over her face this morning! She's too quick and smart for me!

LouiseJ · « **Reply #25 on:** November 02, 2012, 09:28:39 AM »

That's great news.
My only tip is the Webbox licky stuff. It got worming tablets down my two yesterday
Good luck !

weesilvie · « **Reply #24 on:** November 02, 2012, 08:59:57 AM »

I'm now home from my wee holiday and have been trying to give Silvie her first dose of Vetergesic. No success so far :/

Any tips for one who only has one pair of hands?!

weesilvie · « **Reply #23 on:** October 28, 2012, 07:57:35 AM »

Hi Rosella and thanks.

I haven't read about green lipped mussel - I will do and will ask the vet about it at our next check up. I will also check out those websites you mention when I put the laptop on later (easier to read than on the phone!)

I'm very pleased to say that the Silvie I know and love so much is returning, little by little

Never have I been so pleased for her to cimb all over me in the middle of the night and poke me in the face causing me to have to get up and shut her downstairs, and then to hear her start yowling at some ungodly hour this morning! She's also starting to be able to relax a bit and close her eyes, just generally seems more comfortable. She has a way to go yet, her eyes aren't back to normal but they're less freaky than they were, she still has a bit of a twitch and she still cant seem to fully relax. I do now feel confident that we're well on the way in the right direction though

Rosella moggy · « **Reply #22 on:** October 27, 2012, 22:07:38 PM »

I'm not saying this link is reliable but I came across it this morning and it does link tramadol to hallucinations that would indicate dosage needs adjusting. That's why I recommended quizzing vet on dosage.

http://www.vetinfo.com/tramadol-side-effects-in-cats.html#b

Glad you find NOAH easy to use and so sorry that Silvie is already on top dose of metacam and seraquin. I assume you have read about green lipped muscle too which can ease pain from arthritis. I haven't come across Vetergesic but Tanya's website (my little bible when looking after our Fred RIP from CRF last year) is quite reliable and she says this ...

http://www.felinecrf.org/treatments_antibiotics_painkillers.htm

Buprenorphine (Buprenex, Vetergesic)

Buprenorphine is a narcotic which is thirty times more potent than morphine. Trade names include Buprenex (USA) and Vetergesic (UK).

Buprenorphine should not be given orally because it is ineffective when given in such a way. It can be given as an injection, but in cats it is commonly given in intrabuccal form, i.e. it is squirted into the mouth towards the cheek. It is flavourless so most cats tolerate this well. When given into the cheek, buprenorphine is absorbed through the mucus membrane and usually takes effect quickly, within 30 minutes, with its effects lasting for eight hours (although Colorado State University College of Veterinary Medicine is currently researching a sustained release version of buprenorphine which lasts up to three days). The usual dose is 0.01-0.03 mg/kg if given into the mouth, so a 10lb cat (4.55kg) would receive 0.046- 0.136 mg up to three times a day. Since these are tricky amounts to calculate, many vets provide small syringes containing the correct dose and you just gently squeeze the contents into your cat's mouth towards the cheek.

Most people I've heard from find buprenorphine extremely effective with few side effects. The most common side effect is sedation and it may also slow breathing. You may see dilated pupils. It makes some cats purr more and become very affectionate, whilst other cats become restless.

Buprenorphine is cleared by the liver so it tends to be a good choice for CKD cats who need ongoing pain control. However, cats with CKD may eliminate it more slowly, so discuss with your vet whether to lower the dose. Be careful if you are using it with cyproheptadine (an appetite stimulant) because using both together may result in an increased sedative effect.

Unfortunately buprenorphine can be expensive. Although the 5ml vials tend to be cheaper, it is better to buy the 1ml vials because there is a preservative added to the 5 ml vials which gives the medication an unpleasant taste.

weesilvie · « **Reply #21 on:** October 27, 2012, 16:38:42 PM »

Thanks

She's definitely starting to look a bit better now - her tail has been wedged firmly between her legs all day but she's starting to wave it about now. Her pupils are still looking not unlike Puss in Boots from Shrek when he does his thing, but all small steps in the right direction are good ones!

Will keep you updated

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #20 on:** October 27, 2012, 16:28:18 PM »

I do hope it6 all goes well for her and it sounds promising

weesilvie · « **Reply #19 on:** October 27, 2012, 16:01:23 PM »

Thanks Cazzer - good to know someone else is having no problem with it.

I have also now spoken to my sister who is a nurse and has much experience of administering Tramadol and various such drugs. Admittedly to people, not animals! But she has reassured me that Silvie should have come down well from the Tramadol by tomorrow, so I'm feeling a bit better about it all. And like I might still be able to go on my wee holiday!

cazzer · « **Reply #18 on:** October 27, 2012, 15:52:21 PM »

my cat Ginger [who has lymphoma] has liquid vetergesic twice a day. He can't have metacam as a pain killler as he is on steroids as well. has had no side effects from the vetergesic apart from being intially a bit sleepy on the dose so the amount was decreased. I must admit I struggle to get it down him [but thats only because I don't do it often enough - normally my OH gives it to him].

weesilvie · « **Reply #17 on:** October 27, 2012, 15:24:08 PM »

Thanks Gill - have tried changing the title, hope it works

Great minds think alike, I've got the same Google search results you have over the past could of days. I did manage to read the NOAH entry for Vetergesic but it only talks about the injectable form.

And apologies, I should have made clear before - Silvie is already on Metacam, has been for a few years, with no problems (she gets a blood test every year to check organ function). She usually has a maintenance dose for the arthritis but it wasn't enough on its own for this injury. We've upped the dose of that to the max and she's also on Seraquin.

The vet did say that I could start the new drug tonight but I think I am more inclined to wait until I'm sure she has the Tramadol out of her system before trying anything new. I think she might be starting to come round - she jumped up on to my lap brielfy a minute ago. She's hardly been near me since last night. I usually have trouble getting her off my lap! Think Tramadol must be hallucinogenic - it's like she's seeing things!

I'm supposed to be going away for a few days on Monday. Don't think I want to start the new drug before I go - what if she reacts badly to it again? And how am I going to get someone else to administer that liquid?! If she hasn't fully recovered from the tramadol tomorrow, then I won't be going anywhere.

Anyone got any experiences of oral Vetergesic to share?

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #16 on:** October 27, 2012, 14:16:22 PM »

I am now worried about the meds and have just done a search about vetergesic and cant find anything about it except in its injectable form.

It maybe a good idea to pm Rosella cos she has access to NOAH I think its called which gives all information about animal drugs, I have never been able to use it.

I am sure that Napoleon was given a very small amount of vetergesic cos it was thought metacam would not be safe for him but it went in his food.

I am not sure why your vet us using this rather than metacam which you can add to wet food and most cats like cos its sweet.

The down side to metacam is that its not suitable for cats with kidney problems althoiugh sometimes one has to weigh up the life span of the cat against a pain free life.

Do you know your vet well atre they experienced with cats? Are they a small animal vet or a farm vet.

Afraid I would be very worried about what they are prescibing for your cat and would tend not to give this vetergesic without loads of questions and the main one being why not metacam.

I think you need to change the title of the thread to ask people about vetergesic cos am sure that it can beused differently and it can be injected.................not sure I would trust your vets thoiugh!!

I can change the title if you dont know how to to.............change title of first post and then do a new post and that will change it.

weesilvie · « **Reply #15 on:** October 27, 2012, 13:44:38 PM »

Thanks all

I now have something different which is likely to cause us more bother than the capsules! It's a liquid, Vetergesic, which I have to syringe under her tongue or onto her gums to be absorbed. Has to be done slowly and can't be done with food or it won't be absorbed. This will be fun!

The reaction to the tramadol is quite scary - she's ok, but seems a little confused, not sure what she's doing. Think it will take until tomorrow for her to get it out of her system. Not nice to watch. Fine excuse not to do my housework though - don't want to disturb her!

Rosella moggy · « **Reply #14 on:** October 27, 2012, 11:54:12 AM »

From googling, is there any chance the dose was maybe too high? Am wondering if the "HUGE capsules" are canine doses by mistake? Just a thought. Make sure you enquire closely on dosage.

I haven't come across tramadol being used in cats altho seems common enough for cats with arthritis when you google. Don't like the sound of ...

Quote from: weesilvie on October 27, 2012, 07:59:59 AM

Has anyone else used tramadol with their cat? ............... she's been a bit weird since - was sitting upright on my lap for ages before she sat down, eyes always open, eyes and pupils wide.

Sounds a bit like Noni when she came home from her recent dental which worried me but she was back to normal within a few hours. Hope all OK now

CatGirl · « **Reply #13 on:** October 27, 2012, 11:38:52 AM »

I too have a problem re tablet giving,my boy had an abscess burst(by vet)so have to give him tabs twice daily,he's too clever to accept them wrapped up!so have to have a coule of goes each time,just putting him maybe on bed,then when he opens his mouth to complain,chuck it in!lol then holding his mouth shut 'til it's gone.

weesilvie · « **Reply #12 on:** October 27, 2012, 09:56:38 AM »

Update - phoned the vet and they agreed this isn't an appropriate reaction and I've to go and collect something different for her at lunchtime.

weesilvie · « **Reply #11 on:** October 27, 2012, 07:59:59 AM »

Thank Liz, will bear that in mind. Funny how they know which the most expensive stuff is!

Has anyone else used tramadol with their cat? I'm not the most happy with how shes reacting to it. She had the first one at 5pm yesterday and was OK until 9pm, just sleeping on my lap. Got up to give her supper then and she's been a bit weird since - was sitting upright on my lap for ages before she sat down, eyes always open, eyes and pupils wide. I usually shut her downstairs at night because she wakes me up but decided not to last night to keep an eye on her. I went to bed and she didn't follow me which is highly unusual, she's usually all over me. Didn't see her all night, except when I got up to go for a pee. She wasn't even harassing me for breakfast! She has been excited for breakfast though, once I got into the kichen and has taken her next dose.

I think I'll phone the vet later on for some reassurance that this is ok and its worth pursuing. Anyone got any thoughts or experiences? I don't like this, she's not my usual Silvie.

Liz · « **Reply #10 on:** October 26, 2012, 20:26:01 PM »

I am currently using Salmon and chicken pate with great success for worming tablets and My Hyperthroid boy Max's tablets and it works a treat as they all think they are getting something special and wish I had thought about it years ago sadly only M & S stuff works here

weesilvie · « **Reply #9 on:** October 26, 2012, 17:35:16 PM »

No problem, thanks Gill

Anyway, I have good news - I buried the whole capsule in her dinner and she ate it no problem! Can't help feeling like that was beginner's luck though! I did try the pill gun thing first - epic fail!

Vet did say one side effect could be that she'd be a little bit sedated. Can't imagine her being any more sedate than she usually is. My friend calls her a pipe and slippers cat!

I'll let you know how I continue to get on. Keep the tips coming - I'm not expecting my good fortune to last!

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #8 on:** October 26, 2012, 17:22:21 PM »

Nooooooooooo sorry if I gave that impression

Just meant that vets need to be so much more aware of their human clients needs and also how difficult it is to get anything huge into a cat that doesnt want.

weesilvie · « **Reply #7 on:** October 26, 2012, 15:13:32 PM »

Gill - you don't mean this is a bad drug, do you?

Emmy-lou - I hadn't thought of those things, I'll have a look to see if they fit capsules in. Thanks

Thanks for the webbox tips - I'll see what I can find in Asda later

emmmy_lou · « **Reply #6 on:** October 26, 2012, 14:20:59 PM »

Yes Licky Lix, my 2 dont like them mind...

Worming tablets I put inside a webbox stick and they get eaten pretty sharpish! But suspect they are smaller than the ones you are trying to administer

What about one of the syringe things you put tablets in? your vet or pets at home will have them? Not tried them myself tho

LouiseJ · « **Reply #5 on:** October 26, 2012, 13:38:49 PM »

Hi
It's a flavoured paste and can be found in the treats section in a supermarket. I've found it in Asda and Waitrose so I'm guessing its fairly easy to get hold of.
Webbox do either a soft stick type treat which I got as my vet suggested the antibiotics were worth a try wedged into a pliable treat but I used the paste so it was a blob, then the tablet, then a sprinkle of cystaid then another blob and as that wasn't working straight away I tore up one of the sticks and put that on the top. I think it has something like licky lick on the box.
It was far far easier than wedging a tablet in something.
Good luck!

weesilvie · « **Reply #4 on:** October 26, 2012, 13:22:47 PM »

Thanks. I'm reluctant to empty them out in case I waste them.

I might try mixing it with something tasty to syringe in, if i have no luck with them whole. What is webbox, where can I get it in the UK?

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #3 on:** October 26, 2012, 13:08:48 PM »

Purrrrrrrsonally think vets should have more sense!

LouiseJ · « **Reply #2 on:** October 26, 2012, 13:04:02 PM »

Would it be worth a try to empty them and mix them in something. Luna has had cystitis and my vet said I could try cranberry - it is hideously sour but she is happily taking it mixed in a bit of Webbox paste.

weesilvie · « **Reply #1 on:** October 26, 2012, 12:53:55 PM »

Hello all
I know, im only here when I want something...

Silvie has an arthritis-related injury to her front leg and the vet has given us Tramadol capsules to try. The vet tells me I can't empty them out into her food because it tastes too nasty. They've to be given twice a day. And the capsules are HUGE!

I would appreciate any tips and ideas for giving her these bloomin capsules, particularly as I'll have to do it on my own and I don't want to disturb her sore leg any more than necessary.

Thanks

Author Topic: Arthritis/injury - management and pain relief (Read 25721 times)