Author Topic: At the end of our tether  (Read 5280 times)

Offline Mymblesdaughter

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2015, 11:03:38 AM »
Sorry to hear that Blue Rabbit. Especially as she is wrong, cats are considered kittens until they are a year old. As Sue says people skills are often lower on the agenda than cat skills at rescues.

Offline Sue P (Paddysmum)

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2015, 08:35:02 AM »



Yes, people skills arent often strongest in "front of house" rescue peeps, alas.   Pay no heed to her thoughtlesness, BR.   :hug:

Offline Blue Rabbit

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2015, 08:31:59 AM »
I have found previous fosters between 6 and 18 months slightly harder to rehome but I have found homes for them. I can understand what she's saying but she was so rude, she scoffed at me  :shify: Ohh well, at least they're going to help us find them their forever home!

Offline Sue P (Paddysmum)

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2015, 07:08:56 AM »


I know when we got Moray, we were told that it was the sad truth once they get up to about 4/5 months old, they're harder to re-home, as they're fast outgrowing the immediately "cute" stage.
I think Teresa found the same difficulties.

Of course, I still view ours as unbeliveably cute, gorgeous and adorable, and they're well out of kitten-hood now (sort of  :evillaugh:)  They're both ma babies when they're snoozlin.


Offline Mymblesdaughter

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2015, 22:24:25 PM »
It might just be that she thinks if they are young kittens they are easier to home. I remember when I was trying to find homes for mine, before I decided to keep them. The person at the rescue said they'd better find them homes soon as they were getting old and ugly!! She was joking, but I suppose I can understand what she meant. They were about 4 or 5 months old at the time.

 

Offline Blue Rabbit

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2015, 11:42:25 AM »
That reminds me, I need to update my siggy!

Offline Blue Rabbit

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2015, 11:41:53 AM »
They're kittens til 18 months!! Humph will be a kitten til he's 5 fgs!!  :rofl: :rofl:

Offline hollycat

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2015, 11:28:25 AM »


She's talking out of her ^%^ they are kittens until they are 12 months old. Teenage mutant ninja kittens  :rofl:

Offline Blue Rabbit

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2015, 11:24:59 AM »
Have finally got through to the CPL, they're going to put Link and Zelda up on their website with my details and will complete a home check for us which is reassuring. The lady did try to say, however, that at 6 months old they're not kittens  :-: :-: :-: I honestly did not know what to say....

Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2015, 14:55:06 PM »
Thats really good news and think that a rescue who will let you rehome from home is good  ;D

Offline Sue P (Paddysmum)

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2015, 13:24:58 PM »



That's such good news, BR.  Am really pleased that you can see light at the end of the tunnel now.  It's easy for us to forget that cats can be ruddy hard work!  :evillaugh: :hug: :hug:

Offline Blue Rabbit

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2015, 11:10:56 AM »
Hello again everyone, thought I'd give a quick update - since doing litter trays more regularly we have had no bath wees or bed wees, and only one behind-the-toilet wees!! We have been unable to get through to the CPL in the area but will continue trying and have decided to continue fostering and advertise them through a rescue rather than going through a shelter - Zelda has severe IBS and I don't think a shelter environment would do her any favours.

In terms of our bigger boys, Archie's behaviour is improving and he's spending more time cuddling with his daddy.

We're going in the right direction, the last few days have really highlighted that our boys need attention and time to work with us and the kittens need their own space.

Offline Dawn F

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2015, 08:10:21 AM »
its amazing you've coped this far, going to rescue for the kittens isn't a failure, it will be best for everyone in the long run, you sound like you have plenty to keep you busy  :hug:

Offline Blue Rabbit

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2015, 17:44:41 PM »
You lot are so lovely, thank you all so much  :)  :thanks:  :hug:

Offline emmmy_lou

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2015, 11:02:55 AM »
No- one would ever think you were a bad person, at the end of the day you need to do whats best for all concerned. Sad thogh it may be, you tried to help, and it hasn't worked out.

I often see cats in rescue who have been there week after week, and of course I would love to take them in, but know it would upset the balance of the house.

I hope you find somewhere for them soon. I know Cats Protection and a lot of local rescues will put them on their website for you even though they might not be able to physically take them in.

 :hug: I know it must hard, but try not to beat yourself up  :hug:
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Offline Sue P (Paddysmum)

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2015, 07:01:29 AM »


BR - just popping by to offer an early morning hug.   :hug:

Offline Lyn (Slugsta)

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2015, 22:00:02 PM »
It sounds to me as if you are relieved to have others confirm what you knew in your heart. You have done your best for everyone but the simple truth is that you are not super-human and there is only so much you can do. I do hope you are soon able to find loving home/s for the kittens so that you and your family (feline and human) can settle into our new place and await the arrival of your new babe  :hug:

Offline souffle

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2015, 19:55:43 PM »
No decision made from love is ever wrong bluerabbit. Just remember that.
I hope you find a rescue that can place the kittens in a lovely forever home where they will be loved xx
Look after yourself two. It can't be easy coping when your are heavily pregnant and you need to look after yourself too xxx  :hug:
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Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2015, 18:14:20 PM »
So agree with everyone and hope the kittens find a new home asap and the problems go away  :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

Offline Blue Rabbit

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2015, 18:05:58 PM »
Thank you  :hug: :hug: :hug:

(Just quickly, the boys are unlikely to be rehomed but we will give it time once the kittens have found a home to see if that puts a stop to peeing. If not, we will look at our options then. Just wanted to clear up any confusion and have edited previous post to reflect this.)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 18:06:40 PM by Blue Rabbit »

Offline Sue P (Paddysmum)

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2015, 17:58:46 PM »


BR, I dont think you are contemplating a bad thing, nor do I think for one moment you're a horrible person, nor do I think anyone else will judge you to be in these circumstances.  You've given it much thought and deliberation.

It really is a cliche but true that sometimes the best way to express your love for someone is to let them go.  It's a very brave decision to make, and one which we all appreciate you aren't undertaking lightly.  We know how much you love your extended family, and it was a huigely generous move to take on Link and Zelda, but there is an optimum amount of cats anyone can cope with, and it's different for everyone. 

Letting go will I think ease the situation for all of you, and the boys who go for re-homing will have a very good chance of getting the right home for them, especially if you can explain to your chosen shelter the issues the boys each have, and what you've observed about their preferences and anxieties.

Yuo really have done your very best for them all, but it's put untenable pressure on you, and that cant continue, for everyone's sake.   :hug: :hug:

Online Susanne (urbantigers)

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2015, 17:55:49 PM »
I think rehoming the kittens will definitely help.  They are young enough to find a home with someone wanting kittens and they will end up with a lovely home and family of their own to spoil them rotten.  A hard decision but a brave one  :hug:

Offline Blue Rabbit

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2015, 17:50:25 PM »
Thank you everyone.

I need to clarify something with Archie - we have tried all forms of behaviour modification, from gentle movement away from the offending item to sharp puffs in the face. The only thing he responds to are his name in warning tones and a stern no or, in extreme circumstances, a shout of "ARCHIE!". I don't want you all thinking that he's shouted at all the time, I'm not screeching or roaring at him, it is a very stern don't mess with me tone that's used. He doesn't understand boundaries and needs to be told regularly that a certain behaviour isn't ok. We have done this with Ben, Jerry and Archie since the day we got them and we've never had these weeing issues before, this is new thing.

I appreciate everyone's advice, in theory it's all excellent but a lot of what you've advised we're unable to do due to space or lack of funds. The tarpaulin, however, is something we can and will invest in, as are puppy pads so thank you for those ideas.

New toys are also on the list and we will also start toy rotation to stop boredom.

I think the crux of the matter is the amount of cats we have. It's coming up frequently from you guys and it is something we have thought ourselves. We are pushed for space and I think the older ones, particularly Ben, Jerry and Archie need time back with their humans. I love Link and Zelda dearly but we never planned on having six cats in this flat and they don't have the space they need or want to just be kittens. They need regular human playtime and we just can't give that to them. The only one of the boys that actively wants to play is Archie and if I'm honest with myself I think a lot of his behaviour is coming from the fact that he's bored, restless and he just needs his daddy.

Thank you all for being so kind and understanding, I was concerned that I would get a lot of negative or hurtful replies but everything you've said has been so valid that I feel much better about it all. It's not a situation that I ever wanted to be in and it's nice to get verification that I am trying to do the right thing, even when it feels like it's the worst thing in the world. This probably sounds awful but I do feel that I need to focus on my boys, the kittens are not something we ever planned or, in all honesty wanted and this has perhaps built up a certain level of resentment, certainly on the part of hubster. I think they need a home where they will be the centre of attention, where they will get lots of playtimes and cuddles and they have loads of space to be the fun loving kittens they are.

Gosh, I feel so rubbish but so relieved at the same time. I hope I'm not a bad person for leaning towards rehoming the kittens when the four boys will never be considered for rehoming  :doh: :doh:
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 18:06:17 PM by Blue Rabbit »

Offline Lyn (Slugsta)

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2015, 15:45:32 PM »
BR  :hug:

Offline Purdy Bear

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2015, 13:26:37 PM »
Big hugs to you.  I have just two suggestions:

1.  Make sure you get a specialised pet cleaner/deoderiser as others will have something in them that actually stimulates the pets to pee more.

2.  Jackson Galaxy recommends you have one litter box at least for each cat, so if you have 6 cats you need 6 litter boxes, and put them where they already pee, not where you want them to pee.    It may be that the cats can't actually get to the litter boxes without crossing one of the others paths so frightened to pee.

Lastly I've used the tarpaulin method on the bed, and it does work.  Mine was with a dog and yep he out grew using the bed for peeing on.

Offline souffle

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2015, 09:34:25 AM »
I agree with suzanne. Hard though it is sometimes we need to make decisions that are best for everyone. If you think about it when the new baby arrives no doubt you will need the crib in your bedroom and that means there is going to be yet another room that the cats need to be excluded from. Having the crib, changing mats , pram etc around just makes more places they might pee and more stress.
Be kind to yourself and try and get a rescue place for the newest kittens so that they and you can have their own space, their own people where they can be spoilt and it should all turn out much better. If it is causing issues with your partner now it will be worse when you have a baby and sleepness nights and he has to deal with it.
I'd go out there and try and find a rescue to take at least two if not 4 of the cats.
Maybe that sounds harsh but different times in out lives bring different choices and sometime we have to be strong to do what is right. I am hoping you find a way forward that lies easy on your heart x
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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2015, 08:01:32 AM »
Hi BR

Sorry to hear you are having problems.

Sorry if I sound harsh but 6 cats and 2 children in a 2 bed flat seems untenable to me.  Do they have access to the outdoors?  I live in a 1 bed flat and consider 2 cats the limit.  That's with only one adult.

Once medical issues have been excluded, cats tend to pee inappropriately because they feel insecure and need to mark their territory.  Even if things settle down a bit once they feel more settled, cat dynamics do change over time and with a new baby on the way that will mean a bit change.

Your intentions were good in taking on the kittens but I really feel that it would be better all round if you tried to rehome them.  Then maybe with 4 cats you can reach a happier home environment for all, although I think even that will be hard.

Sorry to be all doom and gloom and judgemental - but I just cant get my head around the idea of 6 cats, 2 adults and 2 children in a 2 bed flat.  I can't help feeling getting that to work will be like herding cats  ;) and stressful for everyone - human and cat.

Offline Sue P (Paddysmum)

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2015, 07:38:39 AM »

BR, do you have the ability to set up a webcam in your bedroom?  That might help in establishing who is the phantom bed pee-er. 

I remember when you got Humph.  He was a right little sweetie, and I expect now he's an even bigger sweetie.   :Luv:

It seems to me from your two very informative posts that you're trying to hold everything together here, and it's putting you under considerable pressure.   Its very clear that you dont want your little family to be split up, and that's great, but I would love to know that there's a bit more support for you in terms of keeping on top of the cleaning with the litter trays and the like, as I think sometimes little things like that can make such a difference to your stress levels too.   :hug:   It isn't really fair that you have to do it all.

Archie shouldnt really be shouted at, whatever's he's done, particularly if he is a Special Needs cat, because with the best will in the world, that'll make him more reactive.  A dirty protest is often a cat's only way of telling us when something's wrong - that or a swift sideswipe, and I think it's very reassuring that in spite of what is or isn't happening in your cat dynamic, you havent had aggression re-directed towards you, your son or your OH. 

Eating inappropriate items is known as Pica, and there are some useful articles out there on the net.  It can be caused by OCD, anxiety, genetic predispositions etc.  It can also be quite dangerous for a cat, depending on the type of material he or she is ingesting, and how often it happens, as it can cause intestinal blockages.

This might be helpful for you, but there's other stuff out there too.

 http://consciouscat.net/2012/05/21/pica-when-cats-eat-strange-things/

I think I'd definitely try to cover the bed with a waterproof of some sort, and try placing a litter tray there to see if whoever it is actually uses the tray when given the opportunity.  I dont think it makes it any less irritating having to change your bedding safe in the knowledge that your offending cat is only doing it because he loves you so much.  I mean, it softens the edge, but it's still making extra washing, and I expect you'll have enough of that to begin with. 

Do you feel under pressure from your OH's reaction to what is happening?  Are there things which he could do, which would make things a little less hectic and which you could ask him to take over?  If he could see to the litter trays twice a day for example?  It might not solve the problem just like that, but if it takes some of the stress away from you, it may help you feel a bit more relaxed, and that not everything rests on your shoulders in this regard.   

I can remember having a conversation with my OH who had shouted at one of ours for killing a robin.  The cat took off in panic and alarm (he doted on his Dad, and he thought he was giving his Dad the most magnificent gift - couldnt understand why he was being yelled at).  I lectured my OH about how shouting was doing no good, and the best way to deal with the situation was by calmly accepting the "gift", removing it, giving the hunter acknowledgment for the treasure he'd brought without over-praising him.  Then I said, with hindsight, an unforgiveable thing.  I said "What if he was knocked over, because he ran away from you."  The very next evening, he was unfortunately for us, run over and killed.  My OH was devastated.  I will, however, say this - it was a lesson hard won, and hard learned.  He never shouts at the cats now.    :hug:

I did however give Tinks the Ole Waggley Finger and a "stern talking to" yesterday, for bullying Moary's friend.  I was mortified when he looked momentarily shamefaced, which then changed to a scowl, and he took off through the catflap.  I had to work hard when he returned home to show him how very sad I was that we'd crossed paws.   :shify:

Some great advice from Gill and Liz and Rosella, and hoping very much than you can get to the bottom (no pun intended) of who's the main culprit in the bedroom department and work out a solution which helps, without having to part with any of your babies.  But dont struggle on trying to do everything yourself, especially if your stress levels begin increasing again.  Don't forget, you have a baby on board who will also pick up on stress, and that's not great  :hug:
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 07:40:02 AM by Sue P (Paddysmum) »

Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2015, 00:01:33 AM »
Stop buying new duvets and invest in a cheapo tauplin or rubber sheet that you can cover the bed with when you are not using it,

Puppy pads in the place behind the loo,

Afraid I was totally confused by who came from where etc  :evillaugh:

I think its very easy to decide on who/what problems are from the inside and often obes owns perceptions are wrong, likewise its easy for us to misinterpret what you have said and make wrong asumptions.

I just feel there are so many issues going on and 4 littertrays is just not enough and one of my cats insists that his tray has the used litter removed every time he or someone else uses it which is a real pain but cats often are like this.

cant your OH help with this?

More trays and changing the used litter I think will help and as far as amonia smell is concerned Hollys idea sounds good.

It doesnt matter what reason you are telling poor little Archie off for he is still terrified.

Offline Liz

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2015, 21:51:04 PM »
I would get them a free standing laser that runs on batteries, my house cats have 2 and love them they used to have 4 timer settings till the Bengals got involved and now they run till I switch them off, we also have the Cats meow toy and that is another hit currently without the nice yellow cover since the Borer Collies decided to play as well!!!

We also have the butterfly electronic toy from Zooplus again battery operated but mine from 16 years young to 7 months love it and we have now invested in rechargeable batteries but the toys take a lot of abuse from my lot and keep them busy

I would also chuck in a couple more litter trays and have you changed the litter that any of them used when they weren't in your home

Also a couple of higher type scratching posts to give them ore height to escape so to speak

Another thing to try is Zylkene it takes the edge off things - I get mine from the vet and it is sprinkled on wet food and has worked in conjunction with Feliway on my ferals with good effect

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Offline Blue Rabbit

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2015, 19:36:20 PM »
Thank you for all your advice, it's been really insightful. I'm going to try and cover all questions here so bear with me.

A quick background on all of our cats, as there seems to be some confusion.

Ben, Jerry and Archie were our first cats, and are 18 months old. B&J are litter mates and Archie is, I believe, a special needs cat. He's a lovely little boy but he's not quite all there. Humph is a 1 year old boy I have owned since January last year but due to a long and complicated housing situation, has only been in my home since November. B, J and A lived with him in his previous home from May - Nov of last year and they all got on well.

Link and Zelda are 6 months old and belonged to a family member who had them at 6 weeks and decided at 12 weeks they no longer wanted them. They were unable to find rescue places so approached myself and hubby. We agreed to take them due to a severe lack of socialisation and supposed defecation outside the litter tray (they haven't once pooed outside the tray when with us, which was one reason my relative wanted them gone). We decided after about a week or so to keep them as they settled in so well.

I do not think Humph is a stress pee-er. His previous home was a multi-multi-cat home where going in various places around the house was normal. I think his behaviour is habitual as opposed to stress-related.

To clarify, Archie doesn't get told off for peeing; he gets told off for things he's always known he's not allowed to do such as ripping apart socks or eating shoes. He has always been like this and allowances are made for him. He is the most affectionate with us but all cats get time with each of us away from our son and our other cats to have one on one time.

I have certainly considered the territory aspect and do think there is some truth to it. In terms of cuddles and sleeping spots, they all cuddle up with each other at various points in the day. That being said, it could be the bigger ones need a bit of time and space away from the kittens.

The litter trays is certainly an issue we need to look at, we are struggling for space so there are 4 litter trays which I do my best to do daily. Unfortunately due to time, they're not always done daily and this is something that needs to be addressed, certainly.

In terms of the smell - there is no smell for us, it's the ammonia I'm trying to get rid of to remove the smell for them so they will not see that as a regular pee spot. With the best will in the world, I'll never fit a litter tray in behind the loo and that is Humph's favourite go to spot.

None of the peeing happens while we are in, it's always while we're out. This is why I'm not 100% sure who is peeing on the bed.

We have tried feeding in different places and the peeing was worse! Bringing them together for mealtimes has helped removed any animosity and it's helped them recognise that none are threats, as previously to doing this we had a lot of fights.

We have Feliway diffusers to help keep things calm and chilled out, did introductions slowly and carefully as per Jackson Galaxy.

Re cystitis, Archie has had cystitis previously and has been checked recently and was found to be negative. We have cystease on hand but he is a very obvious cystitis sufferer and hasn't displayed any symptoms.

Peeing in the bath I can deal with, it's a bit of a pain when we need to bath our son as the bottom of the bath has to be cleaned but it's not the be all and end all. Up until the bed and toilet peeing, there hasn't been a real issue with wee in the bath.

They have a cat tree (soon to be two), a Diogenes barrel, tunnels, mice and balls, catit tracks, and we try and use the laser pen or da bird when we're able.

I absolutely agree that there has been a lot of upheaval for all of them, and pretty much all of it has been out of our control. I think that's why I feel so lost, I'm trying to do my best for every single person in my family, both human and feline and I'm feeling caught between a rock and a hard place. Part of me thinks that it would be fairer on all involved if the kittens found another, better forever home. My boys tolerate them and indeed cuddle up with them, there is a lot of mutual grooming, headbutts and cuddles between all six but I know B&J would prefer fewer cats.

These issues are definitely solvable but would take more time than we realistically have. We can't afford a tenner every two weeks on a new duvet because someone keeps going on it. I'm fully aware that none of this is out of spite or dislike, it's a cry for help that needs to be resolved. I'm just not sure of the best way to resolve it, especially when I don't know who it is.

Offline hollycat

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2015, 14:33:35 PM »


Hell BR. What a terrible time you and your cats are having. I can't add anything to what has already been said, I've had cats for 50 years and I still don't understand them  ;D

My latest two, Astrophe and Zoonie, brothers, came from a cat rescue last April when they were 3 months old. Astrophe was as good as gold, straight in the litter tray. Zoonie on the other hand peed by the front door then next to the tray. This went on for nearly 6 months. I tried everything. The smell was horrible but I got rid of it by using a strong solution of biological washing powder in a carpet cleaner. I eventually threw the carpet away. Don't use any cleaners containing ammonia though, that will just make it worse.

I hope you can find a solution to your problem and I hope these comments from everyone help  ;D

Offline emmmy_lou

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2015, 11:39:21 AM »
Just a thought regarding the kittens, how old are they? It might be worth aquiring a pen or cage to keep them in when they arent being supervised?

We regularly do this in the rescue I help out with when cats/ kittens arent using the litter trays and it helps. With all the disruption, they may just need some coaxing back into a proper 'routine'
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Offline Liz

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2015, 10:12:32 AM »
I have a multi household and have 5 feeding stations the main ones being in the hall and familyroom, I also feed in my study downstairs for 2 of my 7 Bengals who think they are above the others and also my upstairs study for my nocturnal ferals and have 2 bowls of biscuits in my bedroom for the grazers, I also have bowls on my kitchen table again at height for my dementia girl

I make sure they have high places to get to and lots of scratching posts and standalone toys to keep them entertained we have lots of battery operated toys and the cats love them and catnip parties are also held on a regular basis

If the litter trays are hooded this can sometimes cause cats to be cornered and then they will go elsewhere - I only have 3 hood trays - 2 are used as jump points to high places the rest are large high sided and we only have spiteful ferals who miss so to speak, I also have plastic floor runner under all my grit boxes easier to clean up the misses

I also have a couple who use the bath and shower but that is easily cleaned I think that you moved and got kittens and upset your first residents in a very short space of time and they can be spiteful little darlings I their world is turned upside down
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Offline Rosella moggy

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2015, 09:36:57 AM »
I think Gill was thinking of RX66 as a cleaning product but that is unlikely to sort out your situation BR  :hug: 

You have a young child, another on the way and 6 cats in a 2 bed flat.  The cats are not allowed access to one of the bedrooms.  One of your cats is peeing on the spot when told off and the cats are peeing on the bed.  It is likely that stress related cystitis is playing a part here and a vet visit is in order.

We have 7 cats in a 3 bed semi with all cats allowed 24/7 access ourdoors.  We have peeing issues too on occasion but I can't imagine coping with the situation you find yourself in.   

I can't add anything to Sue's well thought through advice except to emphasise that you seriously need to consider rehoming  :hug: :hug: :hug:

Meanwhile you could try using zylkene as a calming measure.  Some find it helps. 

http://www.medicanimal.com/Zylkene-for-Dogs-and-Cats/p/I0020379?gclid=Cj0KEQjw_pmoBRDu986bpISz5ZsBEiQANiuHDLirRPkDcVLsbW0JaDcpMIvkydz48KCec7iRQkrYCsoaAnS78P8HAQ

Offline Sue P (Paddysmum)

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2015, 07:31:07 AM »
Hi BR - welcome back

It does sound like you have your hands awfully full, and potentially more than you can comfortably cope with right now.

I think Gill has made some very pertinent observations, and it is generally helpful to try and break things down into bite sized chunks when trying to work out where the solutions lie.

If you turn this around, and look at things from the viewpoint of the cats, they've all gone through an incredible amount of change in a relatively short time.  Whereas, we humans can talk about how we feel, and have the ability to turn to our friends and Purrs family for support when we need it, our cats have no such opportunities.  and sometimes, because of that, it seems to us their behaviour is out of control, or that as Gill mentioned, we feel they're doing it on purpose or to "punish" us in some way.

When cats toilet inappropriately, it can be down to a medical issue.  However, a lot of inappropriate toiletting is down to stress, pure and simple.   There doesn't have to be fisticuffs and fur flying for that to be an indicator - the peeing is what the cats are using to try and map out "their" territory and "their" people.  I imagine there are other signs the cats are stressed, but it's not always easy to read them, especially if you're under the cosh yourself.  :hug:  There was a Horizon documentary on TV last year which showed a woman who had a household of around 7 cats, all of whom, on the face of it, rubbed along well.

It wasn't until they put camcorders on their collars that they discovered one of the cats was being mercilessly hounded by one of the other cats, to the point where he befriended an elderly man up the road, and would spend as much time as he could there,.  His owner was blissfully unaware, and thought everything was fine until she was shown the footage.

Your cats have moved home.  They have new companions (whether or not they wanted them), they have the bustle of  a small child.  They have to share their space with increasing competition.  Another child is on the way.  Their humans are stressed.  They get shouted at.  They just want their world to be "normal."

Shouting, disciplining and yelling at cats doesn't work.  They don't function like dogs or children.  I'm not surprised Archie peed, really.  He's desperately trying to tell you that he's miserable.  He's wanting to keep you, your OH and his little boy as "special" and "his" and if he is less secure than the other cats it's vital that he gets the resolution he needs. 

There was a recent Jackson Galaxy repeat of a family who lived in a large, beautifully furnished home, which their cat was slowly destroying.  The Father couldn't contain his rage and was yelling all of the time that the cat had to go - they'd had to put a tarpaulin over the bed because the peeing was so bad.  They'd had him 9 years, and yet he was now totally out of control.

It became apparent that they had two toddler aged children, who were not naughty kids - just loud and boisterous.  They had a new born infant.  The Mother in law (and her cat) had moved in to help the harassed Mum out with the kids.  Everyone got along great.  Except for the cat, who was basically traumatised by the noise, the additions to the household and the ways in which his life had changed. 

If your cats are indoor only cats, the pressure on them all for a territory of their own will be phenomenal.

One of the solutions which helped to ease the situation to a manageable level in the Jackson Galaxy slot was giving the cat greater access to all areas of the house, and to provide a whole lot more litter trays in the favourite peeing spots - even on the bed, unpalatable though it sounds.   They were eventually able to take them away.

Safe places for the cats to access - ie some high up spots, and plenty of cat platforms - can help if you have space for them.

You could try feeding the cats in different places.  Your OH could help with that - you could feed two cats in the kitchen, on their own, and another two perhaps in one of the bedrooms, and another two elsewhere - or a three and a three.  You need to work out the dynamics of your cats' relationships to see what would gel.  Usually cats in a multi cat household will bond with another cat or cats, or there may be one who just prefers to be alone - in which case they could be the one that gets fed separately. 

It's hard when you have a small child, and another on the way.  Most Mums are pretty harassed in the early years.   To then find yourselves with more cats than you'd bargained for....   :doh: :doh:

Having said that, hundreds of babies and children grow up with cats and come to no harm, so there maybe an element of managing your own fears and expectations here as well.

How did you come to have Link and Zelda "dumped" on you?  It sounds like it wasnt something you would have sought out voluntarily, and therefore I wonder if there isn't some unconscious level of resentment or frustration at finding yourself  - however motivated by kindness - with two more members of your household that have unbalanced the existing mix.    What was the relationship like with your existing 4, before Link and Zelda came?

I cant help thinking that most of what's going on is actually falling to you to put right.  I think you're under pressure from all sides, and that to a degree you feel caught in the middle when you're trying your utmost to make things work.   

I can understand why you may not want to part with any of the cats, but realistically, if you have too much on your plate to cope with, it may be the only way you can have peace of mind, and the cats can have a chance at a situation which works for them.

Gill made a very good point - you need to write a character reference for your cats.  Consider how they interact with each other and with you, your OH and your son.  If you have to make a decision to let one or more of them go to a rescue for re-homing, then it may help you  choose which cats would benefit from remaining, and which would benefit most from being rehomed.

I cant imagine having to face such a heartbreaking decision, but all of us have to manage what's happening in our lives the best way we can, and there would be no shame if you had to relinquish two or more of the cats, having given it your best shot.

Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

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Re: At the end of our tether
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2015, 02:03:30 AM »
I think you need to try and break this down intio small parts and try to deal with each one seperately.

There are obviously some issues here and from your post I feel these are some.

Telling off cats
Relatioonship between your OH and cats
Relationship between the cats
Child and cats
Another child coming
Peeing probs
littertray probs
Movement of cats round the house

and am sure there are others.

You say the cats all get on but suspect this is not right and peeing probs maybe the outcome.

You have 6 cats so should be a minimum of 7 trays, how many do you have?

The cats sound very stressed and if one urinates when you tell him off ......he sounds like he is terrified of you, simple! or not.

Going on beds and other places can be a way of punishing you or OH.

Sounds like your childs room should be kept shut permanently.

Dont leave him a nd food alone

Do your cats go outside and if not why not?

What are the cats ages?

Do any of them cuddle up together?

Where do they sleep in relation to each other and do they sleep in beds or what?

I dont think vinegar and bicarb will get rid of the smell either for you or for cats and you need something better like Rz 66 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,umm not sure thats right but ask Rosella Moggy.

Sorry throwing around questions and thoughts cos its a very complicated problem and to solve this you may need help of a behaviorist through your vet or a recommended one online but you have to be very careful with this.

have all cats been neutered and chipped and when did they last see a vet?

Offline Blue Rabbit

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At the end of our tether
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2015, 18:37:04 PM »
Hi all, long time no chat.

I'm looking for some help and advice, we are seriously struggling. We finally moved into our own home last November, a two bedroom flat. We got our boys back and within two weeks, two little kittens, Link and Zelda, were dumped on us so we now have six (yes, six!!) cats!! They all get along famously but we're having serious pee issues. Someone has peed in our little boy's room so that has been completely shut off, someone keeps peeing on our bed and has wrecked two duvets, at least 3 of them are peeing in the bath and someone is peeing behind the toilet.

They have plenty of litter trays and will still pee when the litter trays have been changed. I don't think it's stress related as there are no fights and everyone has their own little spots, they all get their fair share of cuddles and our little boy stays away from them and they him.

Archie has always been a special needs cat, he's a bit simple and it takes him a while to understand boundaries. He is progressively getting worse and he is our main pee-er. He has gotten so bad he'll pee on the spot when he's told off and he has previously pooed and weed on Ben when hiding after being caught eating out of our little's boy's lunch bowl.

We've tried everything we can think of - food is always supervised (Archie ate from the bowl in the two seconds I bent down to pick up my son), positive reinforcement, toys, trees, cuddles, saying 'no', etc. We've tried light bops, we've tried a short, sharp puff of air, nothing has worked. We've removed pee smells with vinegar and bicarb, I just don't know what to do.

OH wants to rehome the kittens and Humph, only wanting to keep Archie because he will struggle finding and keeping a new home, and Ben and Jerry because they don't do any of the things listed above. I can see where he's coming from - every morning I spend an hour fixing whatever it is they have thrown about, pulled apart, pulled down, knocked over, etc. and the flat constantly reeks, despite regularly cleaning the litter trays. I have always been of the view that this isn't MY home it's OUR home, encompassing everyone both human and furry that live here, but it's increasingly becoming THEIR home and it's gotten to the point where I can't even leave my son for a minute to pop into the kitchen because one of them will be in with him or they'll have walked litter through the living room 10 minutes after I've hoovered it and he's trying to eat it.

I love my cats very much and the last thing I want to do is rehome any of them. They're all my babies and the thought of not seeing them every day, not cuddling and squeezing them every day is too hard to contemplate. But I recognise that hubby has some genuine concerns - the main ones being what if they pee in our son's cot, or in our unborn child's cot? - and I worry about my son.

Please advise me, my head hurts from going round in circles over this.

 


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