Overgrooming - any advice?

[Tiggy's Mum]

Glad you seem to be getting somewhere, I haven't tried this on the boys (they have 'normal' JWB which has rice as the grain element) but JWB do a cereal free dry food.

http://www.wellbeloved.com/products/cat-food/no-cereal/adult-no-cereal-turkey

[Kay and Penny]

you might like to check out Porta21 grain-free too - much cheaper than Orijen and no  nasties - in fact, the list of ingredients is refreshingly short

http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/dry_cat_food/porta_21/porta21_feline_finest/170885#composition

and my three really like it

[fluffybunny]

I'm just so cross with myself for not having thought of it sooner! It makes sense of the acupuncture actually working as well...the reason it would have spread further down her side as the acupuncture sessions went on probably wasn't due to the stress associated with the sessions (my gut feel was that this wasn't the case) but because she was getting more flexible and could therefore reach further! She really has almost stopped now, just by swapping the rc biscuits.  She is still on the pouches but they have a completely different ingredients list and she only eats very little of this. When they get near the end, I think I'll gradually swap them both onto bozita 'large', which should work for Geoffrey as he is large, and should work for Milly as it contains added glucosamine and chondroitin.  So with that and the Orijen, they should both be grain free and the price of the bozita should offset the price of th Orijen!

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Well done and how stupid RC are grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[fluffybunny]

Yes I've heard that before, with particular reference to soya proteins I think.

Interestingly I've just found the ingredients for both listed on zooplus, and perhaps it's no surprise to discover that the outdoor mature (now called outdoor 7+) does not contain wheat - lots of maize instead - but the ageing 12+ has it as the second highest ingredient!  So that makes me even more certain that poor Milly has been suffering from a wheat intolerance. 

I've just been up the local Cats Protection and furnished them with tons of leftover RC! 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

RC are notoriously bad at putting ingredients on food and its great that Milly is doing better and hope it continues 

[sheilarose]

Thats great progress fb and sounds like the combination of your care, a new catflap and diet change has done the trick 

Sammy also has grain intolerance which affects him behaviourally,and is the reason he came to me at the age of 8 having been on a diet of dry Iams all his life. His "owner" had never bothered to investigate why he had stress issues that manifested in overgrooming, inappropriate peeing and aggression. After we tried every diet going we settled on James Wellbeloved turkey and rice biscuits and his behaviour is now completely changed.

I hope your success is as complete with Milly, well done for presevering.   

[fluffybunny]

I think we might have cracked it    A week on increasingly grain free food and the bald patch is now black where there is fur growing through!  She is still nibbling away, but clearly a lot less, and I will obviously keep a close eye, but after all that, I suspect that poor Milly may have been suffering from a dietary intolerance!  Thinking back, this must have started about the same time that I swapped her dry food from the RC outdoor mature onto the RC ageing 12+.  I haven't studied the ingredients in detail, but I'd have thought it likely that it's going to be something grain related.  Either way, I'm over the moon that things now seem to be moving in the right direction, and even more over the moon that perhaps she isn't so very stressed after all. 

[fluffybunny]

Well I've had a chat with my vet; she suggested adding valerian (dropped onto bedding rather than food) to the cocktail of chill-out drugs.  The sureflap is now fully operational so hopefully that will help too.

The other thing she suggested is try swapping to a grain free, hypoallergenic food, as it's possible that she is itchy due to developing a food sensitivity.  So I've ordered some orijen too and assuming she likes it, will try slowly swapping the dry food to that to see if that also makes any difference.  Milly is currently dozing happily in the sunshine,blissfully unaware of the anxiety she puts us through 

[fluffybunny]

Thanks for the advice, Sheilarose!  I think I'll give my vet a ring for a chat when she's back from hols next week, and see what we think.  It's a complete vicious circle isn't it - is it stress related or is it physical?  The potential for it being physical requires a vet visit, but would increase stress if it's stress related.  And equally I wouldn't want to assume it's stress when actually there could be something physical going on that requires a vet visit!

I had thought about putting the comfy collar on for a bit, but when I was reading around, a few places said that if the overgrooming is stress related, putting the collar on will only serve to increase stress, so it is likely to make it worse rather than resolve it once the collar comes off. 

Such complex little critters 

[sheilarose]

Hi FB.

My Beau is older (15 this August) and has early arthritis too. He overgroomed his flank for years and although he does suffer from FAD which exacerbates the problem in flea season (when he starts on his tummy as well) he continued to overgroom when there are no fleas around at all. We all but gave up and accepted that he does this as habit.

Overgrooming becomes a habit because the fur is broken during excessive grooming which then turns stubbly and spikey, and this irritates the cat further (like when your newly shaved legs start to grow back and snag on things  )

Our vet told us it may be a comforter for him to groom the side that aches, so although Milly's showing no sign of discomfort at the vet, her arthritis may only occur to her when she's at rest and has nothing else on her mind (like new cat flaps or being taken the the vet for acupuncture every month?)

There are anti-depressants (a form of valium) called buspirone that your vet can prescribe if stress is believed to be the issue and a cause cannot be eliminated. These act to break the vicious cycle by stopping the stress long enough for the fur to recover and grow back soft and natural. To be honest I'd try a short course of these before subjecting my animals to frequent veterinary visits for acupunture - which I believe may create more stress than being dosed one tiny blue pill each day.

There is also the option of hormone treatment. Female hormones (similar to the Pill) are injected just once and can be extremely effective. However these are known to have potentially serious side effects so only your vet can advise if this is a good idea for Molly. I can definitely recommend it though as my Sammy benefitted hugely and has gone from a very nervy boy to a total love bunny and has stopped picking at an old scab on his shoulder which was forever flaring up due to his attentions!

You might also try a bitterant on her flank, such a Grannicks bitter apple spray. This is designed to stop puppies biting their stitches after surgery and works for some cats as well. I've had mixed success with my animals and Grannicks. Some utterly detest the taste and do stay away once they've tasted it (so its great for stopping them chewing wires and kittens from biting hands), but Beau just got on with cleaning it off so he could get back to his grooming habit. 

Another option, of course, is physical exclusion i.e. a big collar. However these prevent catflap access and may increase stress so although it would physically prevent her from picking at the site it may make her more anxious. Worth bearing in mind though if all else fails. We have one of the "comfy collars" an inflatable alternative to the e-cone, which may serve to make hard work of her overgrooming habit?

Hope some of this rings a bell, there are so many issues that could be causing it, and it could be one of a hundred remedies that works for Milly, but do please persevere.

By the way. Beau has stopped overgrooming his flank recently since he had one of his fangs removed which had gone bad - so it may have been toothache all along that caused his stress  Nobody's perfect

[fluffybunny]

It's all so circular isn't it!  She's not behaving like a stressed cat (apart from the pvergrooming, obv) but there's obviously something going on, or it's become such a habit that she's now carried on doing it regardless of any stressors.  My vet is on hols at the mo, I will have a chat with her when she gets back and see what she thinks. 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I am not sure if a blood test would tell you anything tbh but only a vet could advise on that cos definately another stressful thing

[fluffybunny]

Sounds there is a big need to remove all stress from her life which is very hard.

Thanks - yes, definitely easier said than done!  Things like the cat flap, for instance - done with the intention that it would reduce bengal stress, but there is an interim period where in itself it is an additional stressor to her.  Acupuncture has only been once a month for the past couple of months and after the next visit in 2 weeks time it's expected to be 'as and when needed' so hopefully both the acupuncture and cat flap stressors will calm down soon.  It's been going on since way before either of those things, though, so I do think that bengal must be the primary stressor...unless it's a complete red herring and it's not stress at all?  Yes it is on the worse arthritic side, but my vet has had a good prod, checked anal glands etc and says she isn't showing any signs of discomfort there at all.  Would a blood test be any use to rule anything else out...or will that just increase the stress! 

If only she could talk, and we could ask her what is going on and how best to fix it!

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

It sounds like maybe its a stress reaction and she does it to comfort herself.

There are a number of stressful things in her life and she doesnt seem to be able to completely get over one before another appears................is it her arthritic hip side?

The bengal, acupuncure, bengal, new flap and possible pain from the arthritus if its the same side.

Sounds there is a big need to remove all stress from her life which is very hard. Also continued trips to vet and acupuncture dont help although I know that the latter has helped her so much.

[fluffybunny]

Milly is severely overgrooming.  She first did it last summer, my vet thought it might be a flea allergy so we did a thorough de-flea of the house and cats.  She talked about the possibility of using a topical steroid cream on the area (her side, just before her left hip) but because Milly was on metacam for her arthritis, we didn't do it. 

Then she was attacked by my neighbour's Bengal and after a couple of weeks with the buster collar on while her wound healed, she stopped doing it - it seemed to break the habit.  All the fur from the overgrooming and from where she was shaved grew back normally.

But a few months back she started again.  By this point, she was having acupuncture for her arthritis, so the vet wondered if it was a pain response where she had been working the needles further down her back each session, and whether it had been concentrating the pain on her hip.  But she now doesn't respond at all to that hip being manipulated and she is walking up and down the stairs perfectly normally and without her former stiffness, so I don't think it is that.  She has been looked over again by the vet who can't find any physical reason for her to be overgrooming.

Cue the conclusion that it is a stress response, possibly due to the Bengal cat? We now have 2 feliway on the go, zyklene and I'm just in the process of installing a microchip cat flap.  But still she continues to overgroom.  She does it all the time, there isn't any particular pattern to it, it seems to have become a bit of a subconscious habit, maybe a bit like biting nails, but she's groomed the fur off her entire hip and part way up her side.  I'm at a loss of what to do next...anyone got any suggestions??  Many thanks!