Author Topic: Clapton having his last 2 teeth out on Monday (that I didn't know he had!)  (Read 23057 times)

Offline clarenmax

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Mark, having 'been there and done it' as it were, the most important thing is to keep him eating, whethers its renal food, senior food with binders, or even handfed chicken if that's what he really wants.

As I also know, with CRF things can happen so quickly, so please don't beat yourself up that you need to try this, or that to make him better, as sadly that's the one thing you can't do hun  :(  :hug:

Clapton's a strong lad, and even with those readings I reckon he's going to be with you for a long old time - its amazing sometimes how much love can do!!!!

This is probably all coming out wrong, not good with words at the mo as its all so close to home (a year on Friday)............all I'm trying to say is that you will always do your best for him, but don't sweat it if you can't get him to eat other food and things  :hug:

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Offline Mark

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I am letting him have whatever he will eat but the chicken & fish thing is more of a long-term issue as muscle meat is high in phosphorus (offal is the worst offender) I'm sure they modify it in renal food to reduce the protein and phosphorus. Phosphorus overload is what makes them feel ill and nauseous so it is a downward spiral. I'm pretty sure they add calcium in renal food to bind it. I was quite surprised that his calcium levels were fine given that he has it added to every meal. The vet said I should load his food with binders but we need to be careful we don't go the other way as obviously they must have some phosphorus. He suggested plenty of binders and retest in a month. I'm sure the fact that he had an infection & wasn't eating of drinking properly will have given him elevated numbers? - On the bright side, the vet said he wasn't anaemic.

I want to see how he goes today as after all, a metacam jab will only last 24hrs and is likely to do more harm than good. I am going to try some k/s and RC renal sprayed with 'bon appetit' in a minute.

Last night I boiled some already cooked chicken pieces up for an hour to make them go soft. He attempted to eat it but gave up after a few attempts. He is obviously hungry but sore - which oddly is better than the other way round. I would be more concerned if he had no appetite.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 09:01:28 AM by Mark »
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Offline Desley (booktigger)

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How come the vet said he can't have chicken or fish, seeing as renal food is made with both of those? The woman who owns our vet practice told me to give Zi chicken, but I know my new vet is against it.

I personally would let him eat the chicken and fish until his mouth feels better - eating something is more important at the moment, especially if it means he can avoid a Metacam jab, as that could make his kidneys even worse.
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Offline Mark

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We can't afford to mess around so yesterday I searched under 'phosphorus' and 'renal' and ordered the minimum amount of all the renal foods they sell (except Hill's & RC as we already have those) as well as renal treats. It came to £70  :Crazy: - but I know we have to find a way. I also have some "Specifics" renal wet which he will eat once in a while. Also, as much as I am against Iams, I am going to order some Eukanaba renal as I am not going to be 'Jehovah' about it. My principles will have to go on hold. I remember him eating some when I got it for Willow before.

He had diarrhea last night - luckily onto a tiled bathroom floor. He also had a bit of a leak  overnight on the bed - again, luckily onto a bunched up bedspread which is now on pre-wash.

It is such a hard call as the vet said if he won't eat, he will have to go for another Metacam jab. He just can't afford any kidney damage - also the stress has to be considered. At the same time, he must eat. He keeps attempting, but all he has eaten is a bit of fish and a bit of chicken - the 2 things he shouldn't be having. Luckily he had his benazecare tablet in the fish.
DO NOT BREED OR BUY WHILE SHELTER ANIMALS DIE

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Offline Desley (booktigger)

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Sorry to hear his numbers have gone up Mark, but if he seems well in himself, he might be coping with them. I wouldn't stress too much if he wont eat the new renal food (although there was one on Zooplus that Rosie would eat, despite not liking any of the 4 from the vets), quality is better than quantity.
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Offline Mark

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Just realised. It was only the creatinine that had to be done as a dilution because it was off the scale. The reading is on another sheet - it is 628 - normal is 71 - 212  :(

I am trying to find a UK seller of Azodyl - it is a probiotic that is supposed to absorb some of the urea and creatinine. I saw a video on youtube where it was recommended by a vet, as well as EPA & DHA Omega 3s - they have to be quality marine sourced.

I have also just ordered every kind of renal food I can fin from zooplus. Obviously binders on regular food isn't enough and he really has to have reduced protein as well at this stage.
DO NOT BREED OR BUY WHILE SHELTER ANIMALS DIE

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Offline Mark

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Many of the older vets have never been trained in animal dentistry.

Obviously this one (RB Julie) hasn't  :tired: - ironically he is a cancer specialist though  :Crazy:
DO NOT BREED OR BUY WHILE SHELTER ANIMALS DIE

I believe I am not interested to know whether Vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't. To know that the results are profitable to the race would not remove my hostility to it.  Mark Twain

Offline Pinkbear (Julie)

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A lot of these procedures are relatively new areas. Many of the older vets have never been trained in animal dentistry. I know, for example, that my old dentist when I was a kid devoted every second Friday to doing dogs teeth.  :evillaugh: The vet nurse would bring the dogs in, anaesthetise them, and the dentist would pull bad teeth out.  :innocent:

Poor Clapton.  :doh: Hope he's feeling better soon.  :hug: :hug:

Offline Mark

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:( awww, won't you allow him a wee bit? 

I will have to because it is the only way he will take a pill. The problem is he will want more. You know when you are hungry and somebody offers you a crisp?...  :evillaugh:

(Well they used to - I don't think most people have manners like that any more)
« Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 15:04:01 PM by Mark »
DO NOT BREED OR BUY WHILE SHELTER ANIMALS DIE

I believe I am not interested to know whether Vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't. To know that the results are profitable to the race would not remove my hostility to it.  Mark Twain

Offline Janeyk

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One of the hardest things will be to stop his chicken & fish as he loves them both.

 :( awww, won't you allow him a wee bit? 

Glad he's you've had a good snooze  :naughty:
« Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 14:28:24 PM by Janeyk »
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Offline Mark

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 Hopefully he will have a snooze under the bed for a few hours, and then awake refreshed and tuck in to a plateful of food!

I know I have  :evillaugh:

I went in to keep him company. I dozed on top of the bed to see if he would join me. I nearly always need a nap as my IBS causes fatigue and back pain to name a few. He really is a little trooper but not sure how much longer he can pull it off. It will be 4 years in October since he was diagnosed (I posted 5 years on another thread but sure it is 4). I read somewhere that 18 months from diagnosis is the average.

I suppose now is the time to start more research but the vet said it will take him for sure and all we can hope to do is slow it down a bit. I feel awful as the other day, Craig, the vet said he had something I might be interested in trying. I took the wind out of his sails by saying "What, Rubenal?, I saw the piece of paper in your drawer when you opened it" - he said yes it was  :shy:. I said I bought some about 18 months ago. (OH said it was rude of me  :-[ )

Anyway, As long as he is sleeping, he is healing and free from pain. One of the hardest things will be to stop his chicken & fish as he loves them both.
DO NOT BREED OR BUY WHILE SHELTER ANIMALS DIE

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Offline Jasmine

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Sorry I didn't see this thread earlier Mark (due to my ME, I can only manage to read the odd post).

What a relief that the little trooper has pulled through and is now home.  Hopefully he will have a snooze under the bed for a few hours, and then awake refreshed and tuck in to a plateful of food!

And I echo Carol's sentiments regarding the numbers - as long as he is still enjoying his food, try not to fret too much about them.
Metoo (RIP) had a urea level of 56 before he lost his appetite (and I never added binders to his food).
I hope that's of some comfort.

 :hug:

Offline Janeyk

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So glad that Clapton is home again  :) and doing well.

Not sure about the results either Mark but will have a look at some of the records of mine over the years later. 

I bet Clapton feels much better now and happy to be home, give him a big cuddle from me  :hug:
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Offline madamcat (Edd)

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Mark

Glad that Clapton is back home with you and eating and drinking  :hug:

Love the pictures of him with his paw up  :Luv2: :Luv2:




Offline Mark

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Thanks Clare  :hug:

He has gone under the bed now. I have left him alone as he probably remembers being pulled out from under it yesterday. I have put a Savic Dog Residence Pad under there for him - hopefully he will lie on it.
DO NOT BREED OR BUY WHILE SHELTER ANIMALS DIE

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Offline CarolM (Wendolene)

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Glad Clapton is home and has forgiven you Mark.  Try not to stress too much about the numbers (the ALT is alanine transferase by the way, a liver enzyme).  Yes they're high but you're doing everything you can for him and treating the cat not the numbers is always the best course of action at this stage.  :hug:

Offline clarenmax

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Aw bless him, I'm sure he's pleased he's back home with you again, even if his mouth is a bit sore  :hug:

I cant remember much about the readings to be honest Mark, but do still have all of Max's printouts at home, so I'll have a look tonight.  That Urea does sound pretty high though  :hug:

My vet always said don't worry about the readings, you look after Clapton day in day out, so you're a much more reliable source of information than any old printout of readings  :hug:

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Offline Mark

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I have heard that some cats still do well with high numbers. He loves his grub  :) - he has just eaten some Whiskas senior salmon - well at least the juice (I always add water) - which is good as the binders are in that.

Another good thing is he has gone back to his favourite water dish - I was worried that he associated it with pain. He is having a really good drink. I think that will help him as well. Willow used to hang around water bowls & fountain but barely drank anything.

I expected him to hate me and dive upstairs under the bed, but he is stretched out across the stairs. I just went and sat with him. He is purring and head-butting my hand.

Unless he wants to sleep, I will see if he wants a cuddle on the sofa. I will grab a book and make a day of it  :sneaky: (bye bye housework  :evillaugh: ) - Shame that I have a plumber coming this afternoon to fix the toilet in the attic.

Re the roots. Craig said fragments should not be left in. He said sometimes the bits are hard to remove, in which case they should be atomised - this is where they are broken into tiny pieces. The body will them reabsorb them.

PS - Clapton's breath stinks (stale blood smell  :sick: )
« Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 11:10:47 AM by Mark »
DO NOT BREED OR BUY WHILE SHELTER ANIMALS DIE

I believe I am not interested to know whether Vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't. To know that the results are profitable to the race would not remove my hostility to it.  Mark Twain

Offline CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls

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Aww  :(   :hug:
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Offline Mark

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He is home  ;D

The vet said he hadn't eaten at all and if he doesn't eat by tonight, to get him back for more pain relief. I tried Sheba Essences chicken (with binders) which he passed on - then one of the treats I bought yesterday, Tesco finest chicken cutlets (cat food  :evillaugh: ) again with binders and he is lapping it up  :)

Bad news is, the vet said he is in final stages of CRF  :(

I have a printout - not sure if anyone has experience with these numbers

5.20 Phos
Creatinine was off the scale
Urea 46.4
ALT 154 (not sure what this is)

I assume WBC is white blood cells - it is the other one that is highlighted (but in blue) it is ever so slightly low. (normal is 5.50 - 19.50 and Clapton's is 5.44)

Not sure how reliable the figures are as it was done as a dilution. Craig said that we could retest in a month to see if the numbers have improved but nevertheless, he is nearing the end of the road  :(


« Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 10:52:13 AM by Mark »
DO NOT BREED OR BUY WHILE SHELTER ANIMALS DIE

I believe I am not interested to know whether Vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't. To know that the results are profitable to the race would not remove my hostility to it.  Mark Twain

Offline Janeyk

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Bet you can't wait to see him Mark - do you know when you can collect him?
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Offline Desley (booktigger)

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Glad he got through it OK, and fingers crossed he is lovely and perky when you get him home - I would ask the vet's opinion on the roots. Injectible Metacam is better than oral, but in America it is only licenced for a one off shot (i.e. once in their life).
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Offline Mark

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I would have done it if I thought he would benefit, but OH agreed that it would be worse for him to see me and then for me to leave him again.
DO NOT BREED OR BUY WHILE SHELTER ANIMALS DIE

I believe I am not interested to know whether Vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't. To know that the results are profitable to the race would not remove my hostility to it.  Mark Twain

Offline Liz

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Mark so glad that things went well and hope you can get a little sleep tonight your boy is in the best place :hug:

I bet you are waiting in the car park with a flask for them opening in the morning!

I only suggested going to see him as I always do - more for me I think but we usually spend an hour with them and a pile of treats before we come away - our vets are so good that they let us do it mind you they always add not many owners would do it so we are in a majority here at Purrs for that!

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Offline bunglycat

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Poor Clapton -glad he is okay now and this vet sems to have done a good job !

Teeth are a nightmare for humans never mind cats -i should know-after all that last Sept in hospital having 2 out -i have had toothache again since Thursday and had to go to the emergency dentist today !

Hope he is home tomorrow  :hug: :hug:

Offline Mark

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The sooner you get to sleep the sooner it will be the morning :)

My mum always said that too  :)
DO NOT BREED OR BUY WHILE SHELTER ANIMALS DIE

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Offline Steff - Petsearch Bedford HQ

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The sooner you get to sleep the sooner it will be the morning :)

My parents always used to say that to me the night before birthdays, holiday, christmas etc lol
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Offline Mark

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Thanks  :)

I remember them saying once that the pain is worse for the first 2 days so I am hoping they can send him home with another Metacam shot. I suppose it must be safer than when it is taken orally?

I hope I'm not feeling queesy in the morning when they show me the pot of bits  :sick: (it may be used in evidence  :sneaky: )

For various reasons, we haven't had a holiday for quite a few years. I haven't spent a night apart from the cats in 5 years since we went away for 2 nights to a wedding.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 22:23:09 PM by Mark »
DO NOT BREED OR BUY WHILE SHELTER ANIMALS DIE

I believe I am not interested to know whether Vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't. To know that the results are profitable to the race would not remove my hostility to it.  Mark Twain

Offline Steff - Petsearch Bedford HQ

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Glad Clapton is ok and his surgery was successful :)

Its a shame its taken until now for him to be properly sorted (because of someone else's incapability) but at least now he will be comfy and happy...well done new vet :)

I know is horrible not having them home but I have both situations. My vets keep cats in overnight after a spay, both Soap and Marble came home feeling much better after an overnight stay. When Esco was castrated he had to have a bigger op cos he had an undescended testicle and it was 50/50 if he would stay overnight but he came home. He was soooooo groggy and floppy etc me and OH sleep downstairs with him for 2 nights.

Give him lots of love in the morning :)
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Offline clarenmax

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Glad darling Clapton is OK, yes probably best he stays put for the night, let him sleep of the anaesthetic, and feeling much more perky tomorrow when you collect him  :hug: :hug:

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Offline sheryl

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Sending lots of love and huggles for Clapton along with lots of healing vibes xxx

Glad that the op went okay Mark  :hug: - I can understand you being so mad at your previous vet, totally unprofessional and uncaring  >:(
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Offline Janeyk

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Glad he seems content and sounds like he'll be well cared and agree I'd leave him sleeping too Mark.  I know after I've had ops you just want to be left afterwards especially if still sleepy.
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Offline Mark

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I just phoned and they said he still has 1/2 bag of fluid so recommend he spends the night. Unlike my old vets, there is a nurse on duty, also a vet on call. She said he is curled up fast asleep. I thought what was best for Clapton and it is to leave him be. He is zonked at the moment and I don't want to confuse him any more. He will probably sleep most of the time and I will be there at opening time. At least I haven't got to worry about him being groggy and falling off things etc.

Something else that has just occurred to me is that they can probably give him another shot of Metacam if they think it is safe.
DO NOT BREED OR BUY WHILE SHELTER ANIMALS DIE

I believe I am not interested to know whether Vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't. To know that the results are profitable to the race would not remove my hostility to it.  Mark Twain

Offline Rosella moggy

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What a dilemma Mark  :hug:  I would ask vet/VN and be guided by them as I don't think there is a right answer as to whether to visit him or not.  I suppose if they think he seems very well, I would leave it as he will think he can come home when he sees you.  However if he is a bit down perhaps a visit form you might perk him up?  Real dilemma ....

In any event, I too have been checking for news and am delighted he has come through it all OK and would put any other thoughts of previous dental treatment on the back burner ...... for now

Offline Janeyk

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I was thinking of that, but if he sees me and then I leave him again, it would probably be even worse for him?



I can understand you thinking that I've always worried about that too Mark although a lot people disagree.
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Offline Janeyk

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So glad that things have gone well, I've kept checking, bet you can't wait to see him  :hug:

Aww lovely photos :Luv2:

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Offline clarenmax

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I'd be furious if that were my old vet Mark, so can totally see why you are too  :hug:

I'd be inclined to go see him too if you can, maybe take something which smells of home if he does have to stay overnight.  Good that the vet has suggested this I think, always a positive when they suggest such precautions - when Max was supposed to have a dental they wanted him in overnight for fluids beforehand due to his kidneys, so its a good suggestion xx
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 16:58:37 PM by clarenmax »

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Offline Mark

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Mark so glad Clapton has made it through the op but so sad he has had extra work done - any chance you can pop in and see him just to put your own mind at rest :hug:

I was thinking of that, but if he sees me and then I leave him again, it would probably be even worse for him?




« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 16:54:36 PM by Mark »
DO NOT BREED OR BUY WHILE SHELTER ANIMALS DIE

I believe I am not interested to know whether Vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't. To know that the results are profitable to the race would not remove my hostility to it.  Mark Twain

Offline Liz

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Mark so glad Clapton has made it through the op but so sad he has had extra work done - any chance you can pop in and see him just to put your own mind at rest :hug:
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Offline Mark

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Thanks everyone. I just got a call. The surgery took longer than expected as they found further stumps under the gumline which would have erupted at a later date. Craig has saved them in a pot to show us just how much they removed.

They want to keep him in overnight on fluids to be on the safe side. They said he is coming round fine but it is just a precaution. I asked if I can phone later to see if there is an improvement - obviously I don't want to jeopardise his recovery but hate the idea of him being there overnight. They said to phone around 6pm and they will advise if he is well enough.

I'm really confused now. Is it acceptable that the old vet left lots of teeth roots in? - If I find out the previous vet is responsible, there is no telling what might happen to him  >:(

« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 16:36:23 PM by Mark »
DO NOT BREED OR BUY WHILE SHELTER ANIMALS DIE

I believe I am not interested to know whether Vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't. To know that the results are profitable to the race would not remove my hostility to it.  Mark Twain

 


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