Mina's kittens

[CurlyCatz]

are you offering them the kitten formula when it is warm ?? they wont take to cold milk at all. 

I'd recommend weighing them if not every day at the same time then every second day, there should be a weight gain every day (but i cant remember what the range of grams should be - there is a guideline for that somewhere)

as des said maybe you'll need to try them with a bottle every day just to top them up.

[Desley (booktigger)]

IF she doesn't have enough milk, you need to keep a very good eye on them, and at 5 weeks, I would give them the occasional bottle if they are not interested in eating food. What do they look like after they have a feed? Are they all content with nice round bellies, or do they have wrinkly skin on their bellies? If they have wrinkly skin, she might not be producing enough and you will have to supplement. I think it is different for rescues to let kittens go, as we know that it wont be long till there is another needy litter, and if we constantly keep kittens, we can't help more. You could also try just putting down a plate of kitten wet and no kitten milk in it, see if they are any more interested. I fostererd a mum cat, and I put her in a different room for some of the meal times, as she would eat all hers and then push them out of the way for theirs!!

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

awwww keep the one u like then

[Ruba]

Thanks again fo all the tips!  There's no way I could have found all the info without this forum

I will give them away as pairs, if possible, and a week apart, as you suggested, although I'm growing so fond of all of them, how do you people who come across so many manage to give them all away without keeping them all??  I have a weak spot fro one girl especially-she lets me pick her up and goes totaly limp in my hands, like an adorable trusting muffin, and just looks into my eyes with shy loving look...I'm crazy about her! 

The kittens are sometimes meowing for a feed but Mina doesn't always have enough milk, or maybe she's fed up with letting them ravage her, because she just stands there and watches them.  Could it be that her milk is drying out? She still feeds them around 5-6 times a day.
But when I try to put down some Nature's Menu kitten pouch mixed with Lactol Gold powder kitten milk replacement for the kittens to explore she gets worried and 1 eats the lot even if her bowl is full with the same thing and she leaves half of it there and 2 tries to cover the empty plate with the carpet!

The kittens seem repulsed by the small of replacement kitten milk, they go back and run off!!!  Am I doing something wrong or is it normal that at 5 weeks they're still not intereted in food?

[Millys Mum]

Eagle pack & arden grange are both very good foods. Your friend is right about the naff ingredients.
My opinion is its best to wean onto wet food, its better for health than dry. Natures menu would mush up very nicely with some Cimicat    (sold at PAH last time i looked)

[Desley (booktigger)]

I posted similar thigns to Snarf's post on the other thread similar to this. I wouldn't worry too much about putting certain things down to wean the kittens with, if mum is getting kitten wet and dry, just let them take the lead from her - I wouldn't use babyfood, it is recommended a lot on the American forums, but they have different types to us, it is very hard to find any without onions in the UK (trust me, I tried!!), and my vet told me not to bother when I was having probs getting Snowy to eat. And as for how Mina will be - a lot of mum cats are quite relieved when their babies go, as they do get a bit fed up - but a good tip is to let them go a week apart, so mum still has some babies to look after.

[Susieh]

Just to add my opinion on keeping a kitten for yourself.  I would either keep 2 (if you can afford it) or none because a single kitten would undoubtedly mither his/her mum loads more than a pair would, as each other are much more interesting than mum 

It can work to keep a kitten from a litter, but it does often cause behaviour issues as both cats can become stressed and I have known several people who's cats can't be in the same room together even though they are mother and offspring.  Obviously it is up to you at the end of the day and you can see them all together and get to know their personalities, wheras we can't.

You can always insist on doing a homecheck for each pair of kittens that you home and also a post-homing check (I had one a month after I adopted my first dog to see if she had settled in ok and I was looking after her properly - I was only 13 at the time though so definitely fair enough) which should help to put your mind at rest.  You can even draw up a contract type thing that many rescues use which mean that if for any reason they can't keep the cats, they return them to you.

[snarf]

on the asking for money for the kittens question, if youre uncomfortable asking for money for them but feel it helps weed out those that probably wouldnt pay for treatment/neutering etc you could ask for a donation for a charity of your choice? say a local small rescue? a friend of mine does this with favours, he owns  van and usd to be a mechanic so he does alot of moving and small repairs for friends but is uncomfortable taking money (but doesnt want to become everyones free repair man!) so he asks for donations to midlands retired greyhounds

[CurlyCatz]

nah baby food no use i'd say, no nutritional content for a cat.

it was royal canin baby cat that i got with cody and that was the one i meant,

If you want something more slushy i'd get something like rc or hills kitten tins or as millys mum said a/d and mix it with some kitten milk replacement, i would have thought most kittens would need something slushy to get them interested but it would appear not so necessarily as having spoken to many breeders over the last year lots of them are mainly using the dried kitten stuff (rc very common) with only a wee bit of wet food. but then again my cody isnt so keen on wet food and thats maybe why ??? altho hes a fantastic water drinker thankfully.

ps your friend has served you well as i think coz the arden grange and natures menu seem to be well liked here i think (if memories serve me correctly) never heard of the eagle one though.

[Ruba]

Thanks for the feeding advice    I'm giving Mina (who herself is barely a year old apparently-vet says) Eagle Pack holistic kibble
http://www.eaglepack.com/Pages/HS_CatChix.html
 - it sounds so good I wouldnt mind having a bit, watching telly maybe!
She also gets Arden Grange and Nature's Menu kitten because it has 70% chicken meat as opposed to 4% in Wiskas/Kitekat (my freind gave me a lecture on cat food!)
http://www.ardengrange.com/prod_info.asp?pid=58

Someone told me to try babyfood, to start them off, what do you think?

[ccmacey]

When I weened Ollie I used kitten biscuits and let them soak in boilled water then mushed them down.

[Millys Mum]

I give Royal Canin baby cat for biscuit and i make a meaty milkshake with Cimicat milk and something meaty like a/d or whiskas kitten supermeat. It stinks but they find it easy to lap up. When you notice them nibbling at bits of litter offer the milkshake and they tend to do the rest themselves 
When they start eating solids they need to have access to a shallow litter tray.

The other thing to bare in mind when weaning is to use something that the new owners are likely to continue using, a diet change is something to avoid to minimise upset tums.

The 2 pics are very cute 

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

royal canin do one called babycat (I think) which is for very young kittens so that might be a good one to start them on.

[CurlyCatz]

ruba i definately cringed when i heard you say cat milk and egg yolk..now that maybe ok but ive not heard of it and personally i'd stay clear, that sounds like a recipie for diarrhoea if you ask me (but i could be wrong)

there are so many top notch commercial foods now i'd stick with them, there are many and best type of foods are often discussed on here, I'd probably go for something like Royal Canin kitten as i was impressed when cody was younger that it was tiny little kibbles great for small mouths, and im sure they must do tinned kitten food aswell.. or of course there is Hills which i'd say matches quality and you get both dried and tinned forms.

I have heard to temp faddy kittens onto solids a tiny piece of mince etc.

I think you can start introducing around the 4 wks but not to try and force them or panic if theyre not interested to start with,(i think some dont get interested till around the 6 ish weeks)  also letting them see mum eating is probably a good idea so they get the picture and also a high quality kitten food is great for lactating queens so you could feed her it and no worries if the kittens eat it at the same time.

[JackSpratt]

Awwww,cute kittens. Were they all pure black?

I've never had a cat that had kittens, so I can't be any help with advice about finding them homes, really.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

I would definitely charge something for them - about £30 each (or maybe £50 for a pair).  Paying for a kitten doesn't guarantee a good home but there are some people who are on the look out for free kittens for dog fighthing etc and charging something helps to eliminate some of these.  I understand why some people dont' think you should have to pay for a cat, but I'd be wary of anyone who was not able or willing to come up with £30.

I think 12-13 weeks sounds good.  The only advantage to keeping them a bit longer would be that you could neuter them before they go to their new homes (and get the new owners to pay the costs of neutering) - at what age is your vet prepared to neuter?

Would the CP near you help out with homechecks etc?  They must get lots of calls for kittens.

re how Mina will feeling bad about you giving away her kittens - I've never had kittens so don't have any experience with this, but I do know that many kitty mums get a bit fed up of their offspring by the time they are 3/4 months and are glad to see the back of them!  When I collected Mosi from the breeder at 14 weeks I remember asking her how mum felt to see her kittens go and the breeder said that mum had stopped paying a lot of attention to them and seemed ready to be rid of them! 

[Ruba]

Thanks all for your advice 
Yes, they are domestic but I think the hair is not that short!  Only one looks shorthaired, but they're so young and they may still change.

I wanted to give them out in pairs anyway, I'd hate them to feel lonely, so I'll either give two as a pair, keep one and give another to someone who already has another kitten or give all away as two and two.  I will give them all necessary vaccinations and anyhting needed. 

Mina is a great mum, she is so on top of things and she hid them under my bed at first, then one evening she brought them one by one in my living room and dropped them on the floor, as if to say: now they're ready to socialize!  I bought a hooded cat bed and she vetted it first, then brought them in!

When are the kittens meant to be weaned and what with?  I read some breeders' site saying kitten milk and egg yolk, others say kitten canned food and kitten milk.
Some say 3-4 weeks old, others 6-8.  Which???

Also, would Mina feel terrible if I give all of her kittens away?  She's so protective of them.

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[CurlyCatz]

oh its sooo cute, are they domestic shorthairs ??

I'd still only rehome once they were past all their course of jabs and i'd ask for basically whatever that cost back.  I really dont think giving them away is the way to go.  (unless you know the person)

[Ruba]

Then I read that if you give them for free they'll end up in the wrong hands, which also makes sense.

To be honest this is not exactly true, people pay £100's sometimes £1000's for a pet but they get no better treatment than a freebie (although I don't like to see 'free to a good home') and still many of them end up in rescue.

Iknow its a real dilemma isn't it?  So what do I do, free or not free?  As you say money doesn't mean good care, as free doesn't mean good care either.  I read ads for kittens at 250 pound in London!  Thats outrageous.  Is that the going rate?  Or is it the price for "no questions asked?".

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[CurlyCatz]

ruba i really think desleys advice is good, esp as you seem so wonderfully concerned for the long term well being of the kittens.  If you approach a reputable cat charity they may be able to help you but of course you keep the kittens till they go to their new home, at least if you managed to work something out with them they are in positions to do homechecks etc which i'm not sure privatley you can ?? i guess you could insist on delivering the cat thus seeing their new abode when you were there and if you werent happy you could take it home.

Re the selling of giving away, I agree a tricky tricky situation..but i do think that combined with even a couple of meets with the prospective new owners, seeing thier accomodation and if they are willing to pay then there might hopefully be a higher chance they are good people.  What i'd suggest to you is to keep the kittens till atleast 13 wks just like pedigree breeders do but i'd get you to vaccinate them all and then the payment for the kittens is really just covering your costs of vaccs and also ensuring that they are vaccinated atleast for the first year of their lives .  You could also look into what pedigree breeders do regarding a contract saying if it doesnt work out they contact you first before rehoming the animal to see if you want it back.

Good luck...ps posting some pics may stir some feelings of interest on here LOL

oh and the gaurdian journalist sounded ok but remember, the rule of thumb with most peeps is that if the kitten is going to be on its own alot (ie folk out working full time) then they have 2 for company or none at all.

[kelly-joy]

I would just charge them what it costs you for their vacs. As for knowing who best for them I would trust your gut and if someone doesn't seem good enough then tell them I am sorry but your not the right person I am looking for and show them the door.The right people will come along and when they do you will know it.good luck let us know how you get on

[Ela]

Then I read that if you give them for free they'll end up in the wrong hands, which also makes sense.

To be honest this is not exactly true, people pay £100's sometimes £1000's for a pet but they get no better treatment than a freebie (although I don't like to see 'free to a good home') and still many of them end up in rescue.

[Ruba]

I'm in NW London, and the only charity near me is the Cat Protection in Archway. 
I'd rather support a smaller charity, though.

Then there's the issue of money: some told me give them for free, nobody should make a profit out of kittens.  Then I read that if you give them for free they'll end up in the wrong hands, which also makes sense.

Mina was left behind by a neighbour and she was already pregnant, so I have never done this before.  We're barely getting to know each other now.

[Desley (booktigger)]

You probably are better letting them go at 12-13 weeks old - what area are you in? Maybe have a word with your local rescue, and see if they will let you advertise through them while you keep them - we get soo many calls for kittens and dont have any, so your local rescue may have a list of suitable people already. Other than that, it is really quizzing people and going off your instinct.

[Ruba]

Hi everyone, I posted a while ago re Mina and her pregnancy (and her nipples looking dodgy!).
The kittens are now running around, they're so tiny and light that they seem to literally shoot around! They are lots of fun.  They will see the vet on Monday for a check up and worming, but as I don't expect much advice on raising kittens I would appreciate any pointers from you experiences crowd.

Me and Mina are becoming good friends with the help I'm giving with her kittens, she even called me when she was about to have them, it was a great experience I will never forget.  My first kittens!
And last!
I LOVE them so much that I would like to keep all 5 but I can't afford to, and choosing one is impossible, I like every one the same!  I might keep one to keep Mina company (and that will be a drama), but I'll have to home the iothers and I'm going crazy with worry.  I will keep them until they are 12-13 weeks old, or even later, I have no deadline, it's just an expense I can't keep up for years to come, but I don't mind months and monts. 

Maybe people will be put off by older kittens?  I want to do my best to find a home that will keep them well, and for life, but how do I do that?

I've naively put a couple of ads on web ads sites, and so many totally irresponsible sounding peeps have replied!  One wanted one NOW for her one year old daughter (to sit on, presumably), one to give as present to an older couple wih a country home (nice setting, but as a present? What if they dont want them???), a few didn't even make sense, one a student from Japan who will leave the UK in two years, one I sent a picture of a kitten to and she asked me if that was the mum, one wanted a kitten "only if very well beahved", another lot from people who have lost two elderly cats last year (it might be true enough, but it sounds strange when 9 ads with different names tell you exavtly the same thing: two cats, died last year.)

A few people sound all right, one was a Guardian journalist who lives on her own in a nice garden flat, but how do I know how much she loves cats, and what she will do with them if she finds the cat-hating boyfriend or moves homes, or has kids?  Same for all the dozen young couples who just moved in new homes, they might be in good faith all right, but once babies start coming, what will they do with my tiny personalities here?

Am I totally nuts worrying about this???!!!  What's the perfect way to judge how committed  a cat lover someone really is?
As many of the people on this forum work in rescues I was wondering if someone had advice to offer.
Thanks!