Author Topic: Wild Kitties youtube vid and CAT77  (Read 1344 times)

Offline Pinkbear (Julie)

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Re: Wild Kitties youtube vid and CAT77
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2007, 10:21:54 AM »
Oh, dear, HK.  :hug: :hug:

For future information, and if you really want to take video making of this nature seriously, you'll need signed paper clearances from all parties involved. Mostly, professionals can spot a serious attempt at exploitation and misrepresentation a mile off and will refuse permission. But most professionals can also see someone trying to learn...  ;)

Try to get hold of a copy of a book called The Guerilla Guide to Film making by Chris Jones. It's the bible for budding film makers, covers all aspects of film making and contains templates for all the usual contract and clearance forms.

When you make a film of any nature, it seems the whole world in conspiring to stop you - right from the word go! The successful are the ones that take rejection and failure and view them as educational tools.

Hear endeth my two penneth... Good luck, HK!  :wow:


Offline Hippykitty

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Re: Wild Kitties youtube vid and CAT77
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2007, 09:56:41 AM »
Silly of me to ask permission, but I'm new at posting vids and didn't want to tread on toes; I assumed that permission would be given as it was in their interests.

Pinkbear, while I was still annoyed I sent another, irate, email to Karen, telling her that I thought 'the committee' were being very petty, especially as the video is promoting feral welfare. I said a few other polite but irritated words, then spent about 3hrs trying to re-edit the video.

The re-editing was a nightmare because I couldn't uncouple the images from the music. If I deleted the music, I deleted the images and vice versa. Eventually, I worked out that if I muted, rather than deleted the music, I could re-jig the images and import the music again. I was tearing my hair out, especially as I couldn't see any good reason for doing this in the first place!  :Crazy:

After I'd managed to cobble together a revised copy, I deleted the original from youtube and uploaded the new version. This has put the 'viewing figures' back to zero,  and I've lost one 5 star rating and favourite. This puts the video back to the beginning, making it less likely to be seen.

I gave the cats a cuddle and checked my email again. This is what I found. AAAAaaaaarrrrrgh!!!!!

Catherine,
I'm sorry this has caused you upset.   Some of the committee were fine about your request and others took a very firm stance about protecting our images from publication.  I will not go into huge detail about why the decision went against use, except to say we have been "one bitten - twice shy" over the use of our material in the past and this understandably affects how decisions are arrived at.   We see huge amounts of misinformation about feral cats put out every day and as we cannot vouch for what people will do with it,  we just have a policy of never allowing use.  However, when I received your email I did forward it to the EC for them to consider, and the rest you know. 
 
After they watched your video, most of them came back to me and said it was fine and certainly gave out a positive message regarding feral cats, so leave it as it is, as it seems it will be so difficult to alter it.
Regards,
Karen.

 :brick: :mad2: :rage:

In the last email posted below,  Ms Stevenson says that she has watched the video, but still wants the images removed.

A day wasted due to CAT 77 being bound by bureaucrats! I wonder if they have time to care for any cats? They seem to spend all their time in 'committee'!

I've put a note with the new video saying that CAT 77, a feral cat welfare group, had objected to the use of two of their images, hence the revised version.

Pinkbear, I'm sure Karen is a nice person when not bound by that dreadful 'committee'!
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Offline Pinkbear (Julie)

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Re: Wild Kitties youtube vid and CAT77
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2007, 23:34:58 PM »
Copyright is always a mine field, HK.  :shify:

CAT77 may not even actually own the images you asked for. They may be using them with permission themselves but cannot grant that permission to a third party. Most of the pics on CAT77's website are sent in by members of the public...  :shy:

I've had several email exchages with Karen Stevenson. She's always proved very helpful to me and a valuable sorce of information and has offered help and resources. She wouldn't be saying these things to you if she had a choice...  ;)

I'm afraid I'd have taken the view that these photos are in the public domain now and I'd have used them without asking permission - especially as this was a training exercise and you are not trying to sell these images on... But the minute you did ask permission, HK, they had to respond officially.

Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

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Re: Wild Kitties youtube vid and CAT77
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2007, 23:12:57 PM »
I think that Cat 77 should be ashamed at their response   >:(

Offline Mark

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Re: Wild Kitties youtube vid and CAT77
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2007, 13:38:45 PM »
The Committee........ :tired:
DO NOT BREED OR BUY WHILE SHELTER ANIMALS DIE

I believe I am not interested to know whether Vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't. To know that the results are profitable to the race would not remove my hostility to it.  Mark Twain

Offline Hippykitty

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Re: Wild Kitties youtube vid and CAT77
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2007, 13:33:28 PM »
Please read these emails in reverse order, sorry. I'm so mad about this! :mad2:

Catherine,
Thanks for your reply. 
I am sorry it took so long for me to reply but I had to get responses from various people about your request.  I have watched your video but unfortunately I see you have used two CAT 77 images without permission.  One image in particular is used by CAT 1977 in its publicity material.  Is it possible for you to remove these two images (cats on car roof, cats on wall)?  The fact that they did appear on a google image search does not mean they can be used without the permission of the copyright holder, i.e. CAT 1977, which is why I guess you contacted us in the first place.
 
I will forward your email & link to the executive committee of the charity for their info and let you know if they have any comments in addition.
Regards,
Karen.
CAT 77 Website
----- Original Message -----
From: CATHERINE
To: Karen Stevenson
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: Photographs


I made the video several weeks ago. I found images I could use from a google image search.
 
If you'd like to see the video, this link should take you to it:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dAd4iHCFhY
 
Thanks,
Catherine
----- Original Message -----
From: Karen Stevenson
To: CATHERINE
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: Photographs


Catherine,
Our executive committee have decided that they cannot allow you to use the photographs from our website in your video.  They are all copyrighted items.  Sorry we are unable to help.
Regards,
Karen
CAT 1977
----- Original Message -----
From: CATHERINE
To: info@cat77.org.uk
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 3:12 AM
Subject: Photographs


I would like permission to use the photographs from your site in a video concerning the plight of feral cats intended for youtube.
It will be a montage of pics of feral cats along with broad information concerning the type of homes ferals need. It will be set to Marc Gunn's 'Wild Kitty' (for which I already have permission).
 
I'm not sure whether you're linked to the Celia Hammond organisation, as the names are very similar. I have already emailed her, and am waiting for a response.
 
Thanks
Catherine

Unfortunately, these emails are in reverse order. I'm disgusted by this response from an organisation supposedly dedicated to helping feral cats! How petty can they get. So I'm supposed to spend a few hours try to redo the vid (in aid of cat welfare) because of their small mindedness?
Serves me right for being too honest!
  :rules: :mad2:
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Offline Mark

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Re: Wild Kitties youtube vid and CAT77
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2007, 11:16:49 AM »
Very silly of them - It can only do good for cats. Some people are just plain barking  :evillaugh:
DO NOT BREED OR BUY WHILE SHELTER ANIMALS DIE

I believe I am not interested to know whether Vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't. To know that the results are profitable to the race would not remove my hostility to it.  Mark Twain

Offline Hippykitty

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Wild Kitties youtube vid and CAT77
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2007, 11:13:30 AM »
I emailed CAT77 some time ago for permission to use images from their website for the Wild Kitties video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dAd4iHCFhY

they took so long to respond, that I did a google image search and used the pics which seemed appropriate.

CAT77 have just got back to me and REFUSED permission for any of their images to be used! This seems strange, especially as the whole purpose of the video is to promote cat welfare - surely this is what CAT77 is about? So I've checked their site and found that two of their pictures appear in the vid. I've decided not to tell them about it, as it would entail a major re-edit of a video which does its job as it stands (it's also on myspace).

I hope everyone agrees that I'm doing the right thing. I'm so surprised, almost shocked, by their decision.  >:(
Cats were once gods; they have never forgotten this, nor have the people they own.

 


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