Author Topic: cats rights v patients rights  (Read 2916 times)

Offline SamMewl

  • Cat Rescue
  • Senior Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 386
    • Yorkshire Cat Rescue
  • Slave to: gizmo, gingurr, nemo, mittens and brujo. always with me, leroy w murgatroyd
Re: cats rights v patients rights
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2013, 17:17:20 PM »
i have been in a similar situation- a very upset lady could no longer look after her cats as she was havnig trouble with depression. Keeping her onside and talking to her openly about what was going to happen to the cats worked well. I reassured her that they were OK and that they would be going to good homes and also that once she was feeling strong she could always take on another cat that needed a home but that it wasn't fair on her cats right now. She was actually very understanding and because she did not feel i was the enemy she trusted what i said.

can you try and talk to the lady as if you and her together are going to get the best for the cats and kittens. if you can suggest a plan to her and if she can then see it as not only for the best but somethng she doesn't have to worry about she may well go along with it.

if the worse happens and she demands the cats and you are worried about what will happen to them, then try and at least let her know that you are there if she can't cope and maybe if she is having trouble you will at least know and maybe able to help.

it is very difficult in these situations to know how much to worry. supergoodluck xx

:) Please text CATS22 £5 to 70070 to feed a cat for a week :)

Offline sheilarose

  • Royal Cat
  • ******
  • Posts: 8598
  • Sly da sly - how do I love thee!
    • Cats Protection Waltham Forest Branch
  • Slave to: Sly, Ivana, Sam, Theo, Ziggy, Basil, Fuzz & Dot
Re: cats rights v patients rights
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2013, 21:55:43 PM »
Sadly yours is a position none of us would want to be in. I wish you the very best outcome, I am certainly not judging anyone and completely applauding the effort you are putting in to this problem. And problem it is, no doubt.  :shify:

Please come back for more help, I'm not sure what more I can offer right now but it may be we have more inspiration in our ranks yet?  ;D

Offline midgecat

  • Adult Cat
  • ***
  • Posts: 207
    • 8 Lives Cat Rescue
  • Slave to: mog, jango & sooty, honey & amber, and flipper ......... additional guests welcome :)
Re: cats rights v patients rights
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2013, 21:35:49 PM »
thanks everyone.  just to be clear - i've no desire to prevent this woman having her cat back in the long term.  she was clearly in quite a state to be sectioned, and i think the cats had got a bit neglected during that time - but the cat who is with me surely wouldn't be so friendly and chilled if she'd been mistreated to any extent.   

i think my fears are that the cat's return to her won't be planned and managed carefully - ie. when the woman is in a good enough head space, and housing space to be able to take them, and the kittens are born and old enough to be moved, and there is a clear plan in place for them to be spayed/neutered and support for the woman should she need it for looking after the cats.  i want her to be able to have the cat back ultimately and have whatever support she needs to care for her.  my fear is that the turns up on my doorstep when she's neither in a good space mentally or has adequate housing, and demands the cat (and kittens) back.

Offline sheilarose

  • Royal Cat
  • ******
  • Posts: 8598
  • Sly da sly - how do I love thee!
    • Cats Protection Waltham Forest Branch
  • Slave to: Sly, Ivana, Sam, Theo, Ziggy, Basil, Fuzz & Dot
Re: cats rights v patients rights
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2013, 00:11:45 AM »
I too have a family member who was sectioned for several months having become demonised - in her mind. She is now stable and healthy again, thankfully, but we went through a very frightening time with her when she was ill.

The question here, surely, is that the woman mistreated her cats before not because she was bad, but because she was ill? So if she has recovered fully, then shouldn't she be given the chance to have her pet back?

Also, I understand that it would need to be her decision to have the cat spayed, but has anyone thought to ask for her pemission to terminate the pregnancy if it is in early stages? It's this sort of objective thinking that gets lost in the emotional upheaval when things are not black and white.

Not sure what the Mental Health Panel could do about this. They won't discuss the personal situation of a client - if indeed she is under the care of the Local Authority - with anyone outside the immediate family. But if her cat is important to her she may well listen to reason about her future care, and in fact welcome an offer of support from you and your friends.

Offline Rosella moggy

  • Fundraising/Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 16365
  • Popeye & Elsa
  • Slave to: Noni Baroni, Dinah, Ruby, Groucho, Bobby. Popeye & Elsa
Re: cats rights v patients rights
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2013, 13:36:48 PM »
When my brother took a turn for the worse with his mental health, approx 15 years ago, he had a stay in hospital.  We chatted about it the other day as "his" cat Susan was sadly pts aged 18 last week after living with my mom for the last 15 years.

At the time, he was absolutely dead against taking Susan from his flat even though he had not been caring for her properly before his hospital admission and 2 of my brothers were having to cross the city twice a day to feed her.  Eventually my eldest brother rang him and told him they were taking Susan whatever he said and gave him no choice.  He now freely admits that was the right thing to do and he wasn't thinking straight at the time as he was ill. 

It's such a difficult situation but am wondering if perhaps this lady has any family members that she trusts for advice?  Failing that, I'm afraid I would do all I could to protect the cat and kittens especially as the cat was not being cared for properly by this lady.  Hopefully the social worker has had experience of kittens but if not I would strongly emphasise how much hard work they can be as Helen said.

« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 13:37:45 PM by Rosella moggy »
Groucho's eyes .........  swoon


Offline Jiji

  • Super Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 2764
  • Slave to: Algernon & Noodle
Re: cats rights v patients rights
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2013, 08:44:59 AM »
I think it is clear the cat and her kittens are the owners and without her authority you cannot rehome them or get the cat spayed. She clearly cares about the cat or she would not have bothered to visit, how did the cat react to her? I wouldn't like to think I would lose my boys just because I had been sectioned. Are there any organisations that can help? maybe there is something like this in your area http://www.petcarenetwork.co.uk/services/  that can provide some help if she wants to keep her cat. I hope you are able to get her permission to home the kittens and get the mother spayed  :hug: :hug: :hug:

Offline Tiggy's Mum

  • Save a life draw/Commercial Assistant/Moderating Staff
  • Royal Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 9376
Re: cats rights v patients rights
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2013, 23:19:28 PM »
It's a tricky situation but my take on it is that she would definitely have the 'right' to demand the cat back and there's not a lot you could do about it, the fact that the local authority are involved makes it even more official. Have you tried seeing if you can speak with her social worker (if she has one) to express your concerns, labouring the point about the stress/mess of kittens and that you are worried this may have a negative impact on her mental health if she asked for the cat back. I think getting social services/mental health team on board is the best bet.

Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

  • Rainbow Bridge/Rescue/Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 73558
  • Misa at 4yrs old and new with me
  • Slave to: Misa, Sasa, Franta Napoleon RIP, Ducha RIP and Lupin, Kocka RIP
Re: cats rights v patients rights
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2013, 22:43:49 PM »
She loves the cat so much and it maybe the only thing that holds her together so I would be very careful what you say.

So pleased the cattery owners are your friends  ;D

Offline Mymblesdaughter

  • Hero Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 1064
  • Slave to: Xander and Buffy
Re: cats rights v patients rights
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2013, 22:01:05 PM »
What a shame, must be so difficult she obviously loves the cat as she's bothered to come and see her.

Could you maybe suggest that you try to find a home for her cat and say you will keep her up to date with what's happening and give her updates etc. Maybe explain how much work kittens are pooping on the floor etc might put her off. Hopefully she will realise she can't take the cat back. Even if she finds somewhere else to stay it's not easy finding somewhere that will take cats. 

Offline midgecat

  • Adult Cat
  • ***
  • Posts: 207
    • 8 Lives Cat Rescue
  • Slave to: mog, jango & sooty, honey & amber, and flipper ......... additional guests welcome :)
Re: cats rights v patients rights
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2013, 21:47:41 PM »
The cattery owners are my friends Gill .... and I regularly foster for various cat charities. 

And yes Mymble .... the cattery contacted the human about moving the cat to my house and she's been to visit today .. so obviously knows that the cat is pregnant.   She's not in a great place to be able to take them .... but I don't think that stops her wanting to.

Offline Mymblesdaughter

  • Hero Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 1064
  • Slave to: Xander and Buffy
Re: cats rights v patients rights
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2013, 21:32:53 PM »
I think she probably has the right to take her cat back from you according to the law but it's unlikely she is in accommodation that would take cats. Also she's probably not going to be in a great place mentally to take them.

Has she contacted you at all about the cat?

If it was me I'd probably lie and say you'd found a new home for the cat with some lovely people, don't mention the kittens. 

Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

  • Rainbow Bridge/Rescue/Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 73558
  • Misa at 4yrs old and new with me
  • Slave to: Misa, Sasa, Franta Napoleon RIP, Ducha RIP and Lupin, Kocka RIP
Re: cats rights v patients rights
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2013, 21:27:48 PM »
 :rofl: :rofl:

I could nt understand the bit about home or cattery  :rofl: :rofl:

Ahhhhhhhhhhh so her, the cat costs are being paid by NHS Trust then?

Do you work at the cattery?

Still dont understand how you came to foster.

It sounds like the owner could  demand her cat back at any time but suspect it depends on what her medical issues are and how long this is all being financed.

Offline midgecat

  • Adult Cat
  • ***
  • Posts: 207
    • 8 Lives Cat Rescue
  • Slave to: mog, jango & sooty, honey & amber, and flipper ......... additional guests welcome :)
Re: cats rights v patients rights
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2013, 21:17:21 PM »
sorry Gill .. not been clear about the different "she"s  ........ its the cat who is pregnant not the human.

the NHS trust placed the cat in the cattery when the human was sectioned.  and then the cattery, with the agreement of the Trust, have placed her with me now its been realised that she's pregnant. 

Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

  • Rainbow Bridge/Rescue/Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 73558
  • Misa at 4yrs old and new with me
  • Slave to: Misa, Sasa, Franta Napoleon RIP, Ducha RIP and Lupin, Kocka RIP
Re: cats rights v patients rights
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2013, 21:12:22 PM »
Sorry I have no idea but sounds like a dodgy situation for the human and the cats  :hug: :hug: :hug:

It could be that the accomodation she is in cant have cats and if she is having a baby its likely that she will be persuaded that cats and babys dont mix.

How did you come to foster the cats? Who is paying for any medical care? This may give you an indication ofd the way forward.

Offline midgecat

  • Adult Cat
  • ***
  • Posts: 207
    • 8 Lives Cat Rescue
  • Slave to: mog, jango & sooty, honey & amber, and flipper ......... additional guests welcome :)
cats rights v patients rights
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2013, 20:29:59 PM »
Just wondering if anyone can shed any light on something that's worrying me at the moment.  To cut a long story short, I'm fostering a cat who was placed in a cattery when her human was sectioned under the mental health act.  It's just been realised that she's pregnant so all agreed it would be best for her that she's in a home rather than cattery.  I don't think the human is under the section any longer but is living just in temp accommodation.  My fear is that at any point she could land on my doorstep and demand to take the cat back, along with the kittens if she's had them.  And that the place would be unsuitable and that none of them would end up spayed or cared for properly.  The woman clearly loves her cats but I fear isn't in a fit state to take proper care of them.

I'd want to support anyone's right to have and care for a cat ... but I believe she'd trashed the house prior to the cats coming into care and they were in a bit of a state when they arrived.  Feeling very protective of this puss and her unborn kits.

Anyone know where the law stands with this kind of thing?

 


Link to CatChat