Author Topic: Force feeding a cat with cat flu? Any tips?  (Read 18768 times)

Offline Tigerlily (Allison)

  • Honorary Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 4429
  • Slave to: Toby
Re: Force feeding a cat with cat flu? Any tips?
« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2012, 08:32:29 AM »
Rosella, it certainly sounds like Bobby is heading in the right direction.

Keep up the good work Bobby  :)
http://www.cat-rescue1.co.uk/

RIP Simba ~ 16/04/02
RIP Tiger ~ 25/08/02
RIP Lily ~ 03/04/10
RIP Molly ~ 04/11/16
Always in my thoughts, forever in my heart

If tears could build a stairway, and memories a lane, I would walk right up to heaven and bring you home again.

Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

  • Rainbow Bridge/Rescue/Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 73567
  • Misa at 4yrs old and new with me
  • Slave to: Misa, Sasa, Franta Napoleon RIP, Ducha RIP and Lupin, Kocka RIP
Re: Force feeding a cat with cat flu? Any tips?
« Reply #55 on: September 05, 2012, 21:15:23 PM »
Oh wasnt that there before  :innocent:

Offline sheilarose

  • Royal Cat
  • ******
  • Posts: 8681
  • Sly da sly - how do I love thee!
    • Cats Protection Chelmsford
  • Slave to: Sly, Theo, Ziggy, Basil, Fuzz & Dot and Rosie the Rescue dog
Re: Force feeding a cat with cat flu? Any tips?
« Reply #54 on: September 05, 2012, 21:04:44 PM »
I can see there's "cat flu" been added. Hope he continues to improve, sending two whole days worth of vibes for less snot and more chickuns.  :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

  • Rainbow Bridge/Rescue/Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 73567
  • Misa at 4yrs old and new with me
  • Slave to: Misa, Sasa, Franta Napoleon RIP, Ducha RIP and Lupin, Kocka RIP
Re: Force feeding a cat with cat flu? Any tips?
« Reply #53 on: September 05, 2012, 21:00:52 PM »
Title still the same Rosella  :evillaugh: :evillaugh:

Pleased he is eating  ;D ;D

Offline Rosella moggy

  • Fundraising/Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 17191
  • Popeye & Elsa
  • Slave to: Noni Baroni, Dinah, Ruby, Groucho, Bobby. Popeye & Elsa
Re: Force feeding a cat with cat flu? Any tips?
« Reply #52 on: September 05, 2012, 20:41:10 PM »
Odd.  Thought I had Helen  :shify: but seems to have worked now and who knows what me addled brain actually did  :) 

Latest bulletin while I'm on is ate fine at lunch and twice again tonight with a little bisolven and fully expect the latest boiled chickun breast to be wolfed down too  :) 

However he still sounds bloody awful so not out of the woods yet and will not rest on laurels until he gets through the night without waking me up with his snorting, sneezing, coughing and wheezing.  Think need to top up on the Olbas Oil for his steam room. 

Not sure if I've mentioned he's a lovely boy?  Maybe I did :innocent: :Luv2: :Luv2: :Luv2: :Luv2:

No sign of Dinah since lunchtime which I'm assuming is a good thing  :)

Offline Tiggy's Mum

  • Save a life draw/Commercial Assistant/Moderating Staff
  • Royal Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 9376
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #51 on: September 05, 2012, 16:26:23 PM »
Sounds like he is definitely on the road to recovery  ;D Keep up the good work Bobby :care:

Am changing title of this thread as think it may be helpful for others if their furbabe gets cat flu. 

Think you edited the wrong post there Rosella, to change the thread title you need to edit the first post and it will show up as changed when the next person posts on it   :hug:

Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

  • Rainbow Bridge/Rescue/Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 73567
  • Misa at 4yrs old and new with me
  • Slave to: Misa, Sasa, Franta Napoleon RIP, Ducha RIP and Lupin, Kocka RIP
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2012, 10:54:51 AM »
So pleased he is eating and little and often definately the way to go  ;D ;D

Offline Dawn F

  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • ******
  • Posts: 18579
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #49 on: September 05, 2012, 09:11:26 AM »
good to hear he is still eating Rosella

Offline Rosella moggy

  • Fundraising/Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 17191
  • Popeye & Elsa
  • Slave to: Noni Baroni, Dinah, Ruby, Groucho, Bobby. Popeye & Elsa
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #48 on: September 05, 2012, 09:09:00 AM »
Got up at 4.30am as couldn't bear to listen to his breathing anymore. 

Put him in his "steam chamber" for 20 mins.  He meowed a little half way through so let him out, he had a quick pee and I popped him back in.  We are sort of getting into the hang of the steam chamber.  He then had a small plate of chickun and washed it down with some liquivite.  He has just had a little more chickun.  He sounds terrible (chickun seems to give him coughing fit) but he continues to eat.  I've cut up more chickun for OH to give him in two lots at lunchtime with a few dollops of liquivite and another chickun breast is thawing out.  I think little and often is the way to go.  Thankfully OH works from home.

Poor Dinah is still very down but thankfully eating ............  She's usually out and about in every kind of weather but just hanging around sleeping all the time.

Am changing title of this thread as think it may be helpful for others if their furbabe gets cat flu. 

Can't think what on earth we would have done if it were Billy who was ill.  Bobby is so compliant  :Luv2:

Offline Tigerlily (Allison)

  • Honorary Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 4429
  • Slave to: Toby
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #47 on: September 05, 2012, 08:04:13 AM »
Such good news Rosella  :hug: :hug: Topping up the get well vibes for Bobby to help a speedy recovery.
http://www.cat-rescue1.co.uk/

RIP Simba ~ 16/04/02
RIP Tiger ~ 25/08/02
RIP Lily ~ 03/04/10
RIP Molly ~ 04/11/16
Always in my thoughts, forever in my heart

If tears could build a stairway, and memories a lane, I would walk right up to heaven and bring you home again.

Offline Angiew

  • Purrs Registered Cat Rescue
  • Honorary Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 3995
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2012, 22:10:10 PM »
 :yesss:

Offline Rosella moggy

  • Fundraising/Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 17191
  • Popeye & Elsa
  • Slave to: Noni Baroni, Dinah, Ruby, Groucho, Bobby. Popeye & Elsa
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #45 on: September 04, 2012, 22:08:06 PM »
All you have to say to Billy is "Billy no" and he understands Helen.  Clever lad.  He got his turn don't worry  :)   

Yes that's our snuffling Bobby Bob Bob :(  That's nuffink tbh.  It gets upsetting when the coughing starts but I've learned to realise that shifting the phlegm is something to smile over  :shy:

He has now gone to his room with a bowl of smelly muck liquivite laced with bisolven :sick: and a bowl of cat milk.  Would like him to get some liquid down him as it eases congestion apparently.

Dinah isn't really shifting her symptoms very well but thankfully still eating.  We've really thrown caution to the wind as far as letting them all mingle today so hoping the virus doesn't take hold of anyone again  :-:

Offline Tiggy's Mum

  • Save a life draw/Commercial Assistant/Moderating Staff
  • Royal Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 9376
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #44 on: September 04, 2012, 21:58:52 PM »
A treat for the eye indeed!  :) Can't believe how restrained Billy/Ruby/Millie* (delete as appropriate) was in that first vid by not jumping up to steal his chicken! Was that snuffling sound his nose? Poor little lamb :care:

Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

  • Rainbow Bridge/Rescue/Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 73567
  • Misa at 4yrs old and new with me
  • Slave to: Misa, Sasa, Franta Napoleon RIP, Ducha RIP and Lupin, Kocka RIP
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #43 on: September 04, 2012, 21:45:05 PM »
Love to see him hoovering like that  ;D ;D

Offline pappilon

  • Honorary Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 4963
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2012, 21:33:09 PM »
Aww bless him :Luv: The main thing is that he is eating .
Does he like cat milk or lil bit of cream maybe. :)
So pleased gorgeous boy is feeling better :hug: :hug: :hug:

Offline sheilarose

  • Royal Cat
  • ******
  • Posts: 8681
  • Sly da sly - how do I love thee!
    • Cats Protection Chelmsford
  • Slave to: Sly, Theo, Ziggy, Basil, Fuzz & Dot and Rosie the Rescue dog
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2012, 21:29:10 PM »
Yayyyy I'd be shovelling it down him but maybe softly does it, eh? Nice one Rosella  ;D :hug: :hug:

Offline Rosella moggy

  • Fundraising/Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 17191
  • Popeye & Elsa
  • Slave to: Noni Baroni, Dinah, Ruby, Groucho, Bobby. Popeye & Elsa
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2012, 20:54:23 PM »
No sign of eating before I left for work and report from OH was that Bobby did lap a little water so wasn't expecting a great deal (anticipating another day with the lovely VNs tomorrow) but took a breast of chicken out to to thaw just in case.  Boiled it after work and decanted some liquivite as an aperitif.  Liquivite was well received but lapped nowhere near enough so waited for chicken to cool down with fingers crossed ............. 

Just look at our laddo  :Luv2: :Luv2: :Luv2: :Luv2:

Hoovering .......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2kZ_oM_gHg

Then wondering where the rest is.............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KkzSPUghbw

Wonder if he might have something tomorrow morning?  Think overnight everything settles on his chest so I don't expect morning miracles but certainly think things are looking a great deal brighter  :) :) :)
« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 22:09:09 PM by Rosella moggy »

Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

  • Rainbow Bridge/Rescue/Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 73567
  • Misa at 4yrs old and new with me
  • Slave to: Misa, Sasa, Franta Napoleon RIP, Ducha RIP and Lupin, Kocka RIP
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2012, 20:42:36 PM »
Just so pleased and cant wait to see the happy videos  ;D

Offline Rosella moggy

  • Fundraising/Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 17191
  • Popeye & Elsa
  • Slave to: Noni Baroni, Dinah, Ruby, Groucho, Bobby. Popeye & Elsa
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2012, 20:38:08 PM »
I'm uploading happy videos as I type  :)

Blimey this has been some journey.

The answer it seems is liquivite and simple boiled chickun  :wow: 

Offline Sue P (Paddysmum)

  • Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 27527
  • Paddy's Mum (Ginger Imposter) [Nov 90- April '11]
  • Slave to: Moray & Malt + my beautiful lost babies - Barley, Mac, Ross, and Tinks RIP babies.
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2012, 18:23:53 PM »


Adding some more to those decongestant vibes from me too!   :hug: :hug:

Offline CarolM (Wendolene)

  • Royal Cat
  • ******
  • Posts: 7578
  • Korky: June 1992 - 19/10/2009
  • Slave to: Bunty and Biggles
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2012, 15:14:23 PM »
Only just caught up with this Rosella.  I'm soooo pleaased he ate yesterday (and did a poo  ;) ) and hope that by now he's eaten again today.  If not, maybe he's still full up.  Either way, its good to know he has replenished his stores and is on the mend anyway which is a relief.

Topping up the degongestant vibes.  :hug:  :hug:

Offline Rosella moggy

  • Fundraising/Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 17191
  • Popeye & Elsa
  • Slave to: Noni Baroni, Dinah, Ruby, Groucho, Bobby. Popeye & Elsa
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2012, 14:17:56 PM »
Those VNs deserve some chocs mefinks  ;D

Bobby bought them 6 bottles of various wines and a card coz he's a good boy like that  :) 

Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

  • Rainbow Bridge/Rescue/Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 73567
  • Misa at 4yrs old and new with me
  • Slave to: Misa, Sasa, Franta Napoleon RIP, Ducha RIP and Lupin, Kocka RIP
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2012, 11:17:12 AM »
Come on Bobby eat please  :hug: :hug:

Offline sheilarose

  • Royal Cat
  • ******
  • Posts: 8681
  • Sly da sly - how do I love thee!
    • Cats Protection Chelmsford
  • Slave to: Sly, Theo, Ziggy, Basil, Fuzz & Dot and Rosie the Rescue dog
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2012, 10:21:39 AM »
Aha! Here you are  :) Blimey, Rosella, what a rollercoaster you've been on. I'm so relieved Bobby has turned his snotty corner, and you've managed to get some rest at last. Those VNs deserve some chocs mefinks  ;D

Offline clarenmax

  • FIV & FELV/Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 16561
  • My Bridge Baby Max, October 2000 - July 2009 xxx
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2012, 10:15:32 AM »
Ah I didn't see this the other day, glad he's turned a corner and is eating a bit again!!  Poor little man, sending some unbunging vibes your way as its never nice to eat when you can't breath or taste anything  :hug: :Luv2:

Make custom Glitter Graphics

Poot, adopted 14th August 2009. I'm sure Maxy sent you to me sweetie xx

Offline Angiew

  • Purrs Registered Cat Rescue
  • Honorary Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 3995
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2012, 08:45:11 AM »
:innocent:  He's been there about 20 mins so should be about cooked now ..........

...and a nice chianti :drool;

Offline Dawn F

  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • ******
  • Posts: 18579
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2012, 08:39:25 AM »
great news!

Offline Sue P (Paddysmum)

  • Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 27527
  • Paddy's Mum (Ginger Imposter) [Nov 90- April '11]
  • Slave to: Moray & Malt + my beautiful lost babies - Barley, Mac, Ross, and Tinks RIP babies.
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2012, 08:23:11 AM »
Was meowing for food again this am but won't touch a thing of course but I'm now convinced it's just a matter of unblocking those nasal passages.

He is currently in closed carrier with a jug of boiling water with Olbas oil outside at gated end with cling film over it and a few holes in cling film and a towel draped over the lot.  His own little steam room  :innocent:  He's been there about 20 mins so should be about cooked now ..........


Oh God love him!   :evillaugh:  Am topping up the positive vibes for him Rosella.  It does sound more positive, and he's in the very bestest of hands.   :hug:

Offline Rosella moggy

  • Fundraising/Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 17191
  • Popeye & Elsa
  • Slave to: Noni Baroni, Dinah, Ruby, Groucho, Bobby. Popeye & Elsa
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2012, 08:15:43 AM »
Was meowing for food again this am but won't touch a thing of course but I'm now convinced it's just a matter of unblocking those nasal passages.

He is currently in closed carrier with a jug of boiling water with Olbas oil outside at gated end with cling film over it and a few holes in cling film and a towel draped over the lot.  His own little steam room  :innocent:  He's been there about 20 mins so should be about cooked now ..........

Offline Tigerlily (Allison)

  • Honorary Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 4429
  • Slave to: Toby
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2012, 07:56:51 AM »
Rosella, I'm really hoping that Bobby has now turned the corner  :crossed: :crossed:
http://www.cat-rescue1.co.uk/

RIP Simba ~ 16/04/02
RIP Tiger ~ 25/08/02
RIP Lily ~ 03/04/10
RIP Molly ~ 04/11/16
Always in my thoughts, forever in my heart

If tears could build a stairway, and memories a lane, I would walk right up to heaven and bring you home again.

Offline Liz

  • Cat Rescue
  • Royal Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 9128
  • Here come the boys!!!!
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2012, 06:17:16 AM »
Way to go Bobby, so glad the tip worked, have to say I bottle fed Bailey Bad Boy Wilson at age 9 when the vets wanted to PTS as he was so ill on the Monday but I asked for them to try anything so he was drip fed and Mummy bottle fed 3 hours a day I so love my vets as I had access till midnight for 4 days and on the Friday he came home na dhas never looked back, vets amazed and me knackered but result

As I said to the vet its calories and liquid so can't hurt he wouldn't take Simicat kitten milk my other standby
Liz and the Clan Cats and Dogs

Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

  • Rainbow Bridge/Rescue/Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 73567
  • Misa at 4yrs old and new with me
  • Slave to: Misa, Sasa, Franta Napoleon RIP, Ducha RIP and Lupin, Kocka RIP
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2012, 01:08:00 AM »
Brilliant and hope now he has found his appetite it stays with him  ;D ;D

Offline Angiew

  • Purrs Registered Cat Rescue
  • Honorary Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 3995
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2012, 23:41:10 PM »
 :yesss:

onward and upward  :Luv2:

Offline Tiggy's Mum

  • Save a life draw/Commercial Assistant/Moderating Staff
  • Royal Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 9376
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2012, 23:17:43 PM »
That's fantastic news, really sounds like he has turned the corner  ;D Have evrything crossed that the improvement continues tomorrow and the dancing banana/chicken combo can come out... 

Gentle :care: for Bobby

(oh, and I'm pleased that the plug in is unplugged!)

Offline pappilon

  • Honorary Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 4963
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2012, 23:02:15 PM »
Wonderful news, its great to read that Bobby enjoyed his meal and yours ;)
I am so pleased, hope you get a good night sleep Rosella.  :hug: :hug:

Well done gorgeous boy.x

Offline Rosella moggy

  • Fundraising/Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 17191
  • Popeye & Elsa
  • Slave to: Noni Baroni, Dinah, Ruby, Groucho, Bobby. Popeye & Elsa
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2012, 22:34:17 PM »
Already switched off Helen and will completely unplug.  Desperate measures and all that but things are looking up now  :shify: Will go back to drops of Olbas Oil on gauze on radiator.

His nibbs has been syringe fed hourly within an inch of his life today by 3 wonderful VNs.  We then went out (switched off plug in 1st Helen :shify: ) and came back to cook dinner.  I thought again of the many tips on here and thought we may as well give Liz's cat milk suggestion another whirl as it only lasts so long when opened and blow me down he gave it a few licks  :-: 

So I quickly opened a tin of sardine Encore.  He did a little dance around it, looking under it, over it, to the left of it and to the right when eventually his nose landed on it and he had a few bites but then seemed to lose the smell again  :( and.......... found the cat milk again  :wow: and almost snorted it up  :lick:

He then insisted on sitting on the arm of my chair as I tried to eat, sneezing into me dinner  :sick: :sick: :sick:  They always get me chicken in any event but knew he couldn't possibly eat it; could he? ........... he bloody hoovered it up  :yesss:  I had to stop him after a while as can't be good for him to eat too much after an hourly syringe feed and no proper eating for a week so put him back upstairs in his room and blimey O'Reilly he did a poo.  :wow:  Not a bad one either .... considering. 

So there we are  :) :) :)  If he goes off his food again tomorrow, he goes back in to vet practice where they will welcome our lad with open arms. 

To say I'm stunned, amazed and very happy would be an understatement.  To say I love everyone at our vets would be another  :Luv:  They are just brilliant.

I intend to get some kip tonight and ignore the snorting, sneezing and wheezing  ;)

 :tired: :tired: :tired: but  :yesss: :blow kiss: :ok:

Offline Tiggy's Mum

  • Save a life draw/Commercial Assistant/Moderating Staff
  • Royal Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 9376
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2012, 19:53:55 PM »
I've just put some water and drops of Olbas Oil into an empty Feliway diffuser and plugged it in  :scared: 

Hope house doesn't go up in smoke but can't see what harm it can do  :shify:

As a worrier over fire hazards, that worries me!  :scared: You can buy olbas oil or karvol plug ins (and prob lots of other different makes too). Can you unplug it overnight, just to be on the safe side  :hug:

Offline Rosella moggy

  • Fundraising/Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 17191
  • Popeye & Elsa
  • Slave to: Noni Baroni, Dinah, Ruby, Groucho, Bobby. Popeye & Elsa
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2012, 16:57:59 PM »
I've just put some water and drops of Olbas Oil into an empty Feliway diffuser and plugged it in  :scared: 

Hope house doesn't go up in smoke but can't see what harm it can do  :shify:

Offline Jiji

  • Super Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 2764
  • Slave to: Algernon & Noodle
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2012, 16:33:28 PM »
You have my sympathy Rosella  :hug: I remember all to well my anguish when Algie wouldn't eat.  :hug: Liquivite was the only thing Algie would eat in the end when he was so poorly with his bad mouth, I had to pour some into the palm of my hand while he was sitting on my knee and let him lap it, very messy but at least he would take a little. I got mine from vetuk and they delivered it very quickly.

Offline Dawn F

  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • ******
  • Posts: 18579
Re: Force feeding a cat? Any tips?
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2012, 16:19:10 PM »
sounds like that is the best thing for him, they just need something in them and they seem to pick up, I remember with my boys I had to handfeed tuna and suddenly once I got it in them they turned a corner, they had mouth ulcers which of course didn't help, I do feel for you I know how horrible it is

 


Link to CatChat