Aggressive cat vs. overzealous child

[Fire Fox]

Having experienced depression myself, I have every sympathy with the daughter and it's lovely that you care so much for her welfare.  I also understand how valuable pets can be for those struggling with mental health issues. But that is no reason to leave a living creature in a household which is causing it such distress - this is as bad as leaving an animal in a household where it suffers physical abuse. Please understand chronic stress is proven to be detrimental to physical wellbeing. 

As someone else suggested, can you take Mia to live with your Oliver? Do you have the sort of home where one can live upstairs and one downstairs whilst you train them to live in harmony? This way the daughter has some access to her beloved pet; once she turns 16 she will be free to visit more frequently or indeed live wherever she chooses. I don't think a depressed fifteen year old should be tasked with controlling her hysterical mother and brother with behavioural issues, this will put her under greater strain which is likely to exacerbate her depression.

IMO the father needs to take some of the responsibility for the son's behavioural issues. It is possible to teach discipline to a healthy eleven year old in two weeks, dad can can ensure that the boy understands to take direction from you in the father's absence. Alternatively your partner needs to push for an assessment for his son: boys who torment animals are far more likely to grow up to be criminals, from minor breaches of the law up to the most horrific crimes. 

And a final  for you Dolcetta.

[dolcetta46]

Oh Susanne, getting her out of the situation by bringing her here did cross my mind, also the oldest son who now lives with us spent the first few months with her at their home and have more experience with her, so she "could" be "his cat", as Oliver never exactly warmed up to him.  But I am just so afraid that she would terrorize and bully my Oliver, who is quite submissive and never encountered such threat.  Perhaps I am being the typical overprotective mum, but I sincerely fear for him as ironic as it may sound... (he is almost 3 times bigger than Mia physically)    
For the time being we will try to have things settled down and re-educate them, and if the things don't improve we may have a try out here after getting a full protective gear for Oliver 

[dolcetta46]

Sounds to me like the child has behavioural and/psychological problems that need to be dealt with. You say he was mute till 4? Does he have autism or aspergers? This could explain the difficulty disciplining him and his inability to understand the boundaries of Mia.

This of course is just speculation but either way Mia is clearly highly stressed, inappropriate toileting habits point to this along with snapping at the boy. I think Mia could very well be happier elsewhere.

I lived with a family with an 11 year old boy with aspergers, they had a cat who he had grown up wirth and there were occasions when he had to be made to let the cat go as he was too enthusiastically cuddling her. Most of the time he was fine but we did always keep an eye for these sorts of incidents which would stress the cat out.

Exactly what I have suspected for some time.  The boy demonstrates series of typical symptoms for autism.  It is just that such a delicate question is difficult to blurt out for someone in my position, he may have already gone through an analysis, or may have not.  But it may be a case of clarifying at least with my partner sooner or later.
I can see that he only wants to give his love to the cats (be it Oliver or Mia), but he doesn't know how to do it in correct fashion. 

Another complication is to consider is his 15 year old sister, who suffers depression and Mia is one of the few bright spots in her life.  I am afraid getting rid of Mia could further damage her morale.  She does have the better, more consistent relations with Mia, so the hope is to assign her to supervise Guido in shaping up his behaviours with animals MAY help also in her direction if she is willing to participate.  If she gets assertive she may be capable of keeping the mother at bay, who is highly hysterical and obtrusive and probably adding to the stress factor.  They do need to understand that all the problematic behaviours from Mia's side can well be stemmed from the constant stress she has been receiving from the household.

We haven't received any frantic telephone calls for over 24 hours, so we do hope that things are calming down.   We will probably get together on Epiphany, which is a largely celebrated holiday here in Italy, and discuss on how to proceed.  We are pretty confident however, the happenings of the last few days have been dramatic enough that the boy is finally getting a drift and may rethink of his approach with the cat....

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

I can't add much to what has already been said, but if the parents are not prepared to work on this issue and accept that the cat is not at fault, then I think it would be better if Mia was rehomed.   The parents, and the mother in particular, need to realise that what may have seemed to them a harmless gesture, would have appeared threatening to Mia and that she behaved in what was, to her, a perfectly logical way.   Fight of flight.  Where flight isn't an option, that only leaves fight.

The child needs to learn how to interact with the cat in a way that's safe for both of them, and the parents need to be vigilant and consistant in ensuring that rules are followed (may be difficult if the child has some problems) and that the child is punished appropriately for failing to follow rules.  I think the toileting problems speak volumes and that is probably how Mia has been coping with the situation for the past 2 years.

Of course rehoming is not easy and as you've said the mother is the type who would dump her if she couldn't find a new home quickly, perhaps best not to suggest that!  I think the child and the cat need to be kept separate for now and then have supervised interactions with the boy sat down so that he's more at Mia's level.  He needs to be very non threatening and allow her to approach him for treats etc.  But success will depend on his ability to understand how to behave around her and the parents' willingness to understand what is needed and to spend time trying to sort this out.

Don't suppose you've room for another one.......? 

[jezebel]

This one does need a bloody good slap though! 

[Bonkers Mad!!!]

just to clarify i didnt say the child needed a bl**dy good slap, i said my children would've got a bl**dy good slap.  i wasnt giving advice on how to deal with child, my advice was based on what to do for the cat.  apologies if that wasnt clear.

[bunglycat]

I didn''t mean anyone else had said he needs a slap -that was my own opinion.
Yes, parents more so .

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I didnt say that and dont believe in violence against children or animals but think the cat needs protection.

[Alex S]

If the child was mute until he was four it's more than likely he has some problems that are not his fault, the only people in the wrong here are the parents who should be more vigilant and protective of this poor cat.

On a completely separate note I'm actually slightly shocked to read that people think it's ok to say the child needs "a bloody good slap" after the possibility of him suffering from a psychological disorder has just been suggested. As you said, the parents do, not him.

[bunglycat]

I agree with Gill and bonkers mad .
That child needs a bloody good slap as he has obviously scared this poor cat so much she is just defensive and scared stiff.

I think most people know on here -i prefer cats and have zero tolerance with most/all  children especially little brats that parents are not capable of seeing any wrong in.
I think the parent needs a good slap as well !

[Feline Costumier]

Sounds to me like the child has behavioural and/psychological problems that need to be dealt with. You say he was mute till 4? Does he have autism or aspergers? This could explain the difficulty disciplining him and his inability to understand the boundaries of Mia.

This of course is just speculation but either way Mia is clearly highly stressed, inappropriate toileting habits point to this along with snapping at the boy. I think Mia could very well be happier elsewhere.

I lived with a family with an 11 year old boy with aspergers, they had a cat who he had grown up wirth and there were occasions when he had to be made to let the cat go as he was too enthusiastically cuddling her. Most of the time he was fine but we did always keep an eye for these sorts of incidents which would stress the cat out.

[princessmaizie]

My friend has 4 year old twins, their cat was their before the twins arrived.  When the twins started toddling they had a natural interest in the cat, my friend explained the need to the kind to animals and that cats only liked gentle play. Once the twins were a little to boisterous with the kitty who then hissed and swiped at them.  No-one was hurt and the children learnt a valuable lesson about being gentle with the cat. The twins and the cat now cuddle up at nap time! 

Perhaps this is an opportunity to teach the same lesson!! I would imagine this little boy won't torment the cat again, for a while at least! 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

The owner is an idiot Liz!

Hormones could be related to the problem but more like the child has been teasing the cat  or something....................I really give up with some!

[lizfraser]

Just seen on another forum a very similar post to this by the mother of a son just attacked for "no reason" by their 20 month old female cat - a coincidence maybe, but the circumstances sounded too similar ie. cat attacked, son ran, cat hissing and growling etc...but she says the cat is unspayed because she wants her to have one litter first.    Could the hormones be a factor if this is the same kitty? 

In any case, I think this poor baby needs a new start. 

[Bonkers Mad!!!]

However I am afraid it will be difficult to find a home for a cat with such behavioural issues

i have to agree with the others.  doesnt sound like Mia is the one with the issues at all to me. 

my kids would've got a bl**dy good slap if one of my cats had attacked them, they don't attack for no reason.

get the at out of that environment asap is my advice

[jezebel]

"Praying" is not going to help anyone. "Praying" is in effect just leaving things to sort themselves out, which of course they won't.

The child needs discipline and you've already said his mother is not capable of this, so I can't see any hope. All I see is a tormented cat that's highly stressed and a situation that's not going to improve. Obviously this child is should not be left alone with animals - a simple "robotic gesture" would not be enough to make this cat so angry it attacked him so I dread to think what he actually did to her!

If the mother was more concerned about the cat, there might be some hope but if she thinks of it as "just a cat" then you're right to be concerned that they will just dump it. The poor thing needs a new home.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Seeing the title my first thought was get rid of the child and to some extent I still feel this 

I agree with Firefox and suspect that Mia has no behaviour problems at all except those brought on by her treatment within the family and she certainly would be better in a house away from that child!

[dolcetta46]

thanks for your reply FireFox... I agree with you mostly, we at our household all suspect the boy was at the fault.  The boy came out of his muteness around his 4th birthday, and he had some difficult start overcoming this setback, and still suffers series of psychological issues.  At 11 he often acts like a 5 year old. 
Unfortunately we don't see them very often, especially the father, as often as he really should.  The lad needs a lot of firm  discipline and guidance which the mother is incapable of giving, and it must be done in a continuous fashion.  He can "pretend" to behave himself in front of his father, but as soon as he is out of his sight he is back to his wayward ways. 
In reality it MAY be better for everyone's peace of mind, especially Mia, to find her a calmer, more mature family.  However I am afraid it will be difficult to find a home for a cat with such behavioural issues, to complicate the matter she refuses to use the litter tray to wee on, so they have to have a special pad designed for dogs laid out for this purpose.  And the mother is the kind who is highly likely to think "oh well, it's just a cat", and I am afraid she would dump her somewhere out there if they are unable to find her a home quickly.  And finally, I do wish the boy would somehow learn to respect and treat his furry family member, or any fellow creatures correctly, and Mia is a good starting point for him.
First step that we must pray that the storm will settle sooner or later, and she will stop getting upset seeing the boy.  Then we have to take it from there, like making him the cheif care taker like providing meals, cleaning after her etc., with a supervision of his sister, who seems to have the best, more consistent relations with Mia. 
And we just have to pray for the best...

[Fire Fox]

What method of discipline has been used by your partner and his ex-wife to prevent the child from tormenting cats? By eleven he should already understand how to give an animal affection and how to respect others (pets and humans) personal space. To be honest if discipline is not to be enforced, it might be best for poor Mia to go to another loving forever home without children. Sorry to be so blunt, but I am shocked that you have been left to give verbal warnings, that you needed to do so repeatedly and that this was ineffective. 

If this has taken two years to build up perhaps Mia is not as ferocious as you have been told, perhaps the constant tormenting has lead to many subtle warnings that have been ignored? AFAIK it is widely acknowledged that humans cannot read most feline body language. Personally I don't see what you describe as being a 'decisive assault', the child appears to have been the instigator whereas Mia defended herself and ultimately saw her attacker off. 

[dolcetta46]

Hi folks it's me again...   Another urgent issue cropped up since last night, and I am in need of some advice from anyone with more experience in such issues!!

This is not a problem with my mild mannered Oliver, but a 2 year old female of my partner's children. (15 & 11). This cat in question, Mia, while tiny and delicate looking, has always been a ferocious little panther who is quick to anger and attack.
Last night her fierceness reached to a new height, she started a decisive assault on the 11 year old boy, biting on his legs and when he tried to escape she pursued him, the mother and sister tried to intervene and they were assaulted as well, the boy had to close himself in his room and Mia continued to growl at the closed door.
Today the cat seemed to have calmed herself but as soon as she saw the boy she started to growl.

From what the sister told us, the boy made some robot like gesture coming at Mia, and that freaked her out completely. (Perhaps it resembled the puffed up cat in the defensive position) We can never be exactly sure what really triggered this rage in Mia, but we do have witnessed how this boy badgered Oliver and wouldn't leave him in peace when we spent 2 weeks together on a holiday this past summer. He meant well, but in his childish overzealous, pushy manner, it was not at all pleasant to my poor kid. Oliver being Oliver all he did was cower, tolerate, and at the very most letting out some half hearted hisses which wouldn't have threatened anyone. I had to remind the boy repeatedly not to torment Oliver, but it kept falling on a deaf ear and he was at it again, and again.
So I am not surprised if the boy kept doing the same thing with Mia and she just lost her patience, however they have been living together for over 2 years and it seems rather strange that this hasn't happened much earlier if that is the case.

Now these two must be completely separated, and the mother is already thinking of giving Mia away. My suggestion would be as soon as Mia stops getting upset at the sight of the boy, they should start getting "reused" to each other by sharing the same space, and perhaps with some communications at distance, like "chatting", eye contacts and mild body languages, without the boy touching her, though it is difficult to monitor their progress as they live on the other side of the city.

Has anyone experienced such conflicts between a cat and a child? How one go about resolving this problem short of getting rid of the cat? Any input will be highly appreciated!!!

The attached pic is the duo in question in happier terms.