Topic: Willow & Klie fighting again - don't know what to do (Read 5194 times)

lilycat · « **Reply #38 on:** October 14, 2007, 15:55:59 PM »

The Serene-UM's been great but I emailed Roly at Dorwest [thanks Gillian] and he recommended either Scullcap and Valerian tablets or, alternatively, Valerian Compound if tablets are an issue. Both are fine for long-term use.

Perhaps, Mark, if Kylie's aggression is causing Willow to get anxious, it might be worth calming them both down until the proverbial fur stops flying? Calming Willow down won't stop Kylie 'having a go' if you see what I mean so maybe a two-pronged approach?

Bazsmum · « **Reply #37 on:** October 14, 2007, 03:42:18 AM »

Quote from: Mark on October 13, 2007, 23:49:05 PM

I was looking at the serene-um thread and think I will look into herbal remedies. I can't just evict one of my cats without trying everything first

Its worth giving it a go Mark....I dont know the price of the herbal remedies but the Serene UM is approx £7....maybe if you give her a go with this first from PAH and it helps then you can (hopefully) like lilycat look into them for the longer term (herbals that is!)

Beanie · « **Reply #36 on:** October 14, 2007, 00:02:56 AM »

Hi Mark,

I have just seen this thread. I have not got the full picture other than there is a cat that feels threatened, so bear with me. Your response with the cushion was a good one and many cat experts advise this course of action

We have one cat of the 7, Barney, who upsets the feline boss of the household. It is always early night time when his hunting senses are prevalent. Over night we shut him in a nice large room to avois confrontation as he uses his claws. I think that his previous owners played rough with him. He isn't a bad lad but is strong minded. Must take after me

One idea that you might contemplate. As he hasn't responde to a raised voice or the cushion in between them, I squirted a very small amount of water at his back with a small water pistol when he was worrying Millie He was a bit shocked but because he didn't actually see me do it he only saw Millie was standing her ground, although clearly ill at ease judging by her sound and body language. I honestly believe that he thinks that Millie somehow sprayed him with water or spittal, as he looked round and she was still there. His subsequent reaction has been to be more loving and a bit quieter with all and sundry. The idea with the water is that whenever a cat becomes a bit aggressive, it associates the owner's displeasure with the unpleasnt squirt of water and the mental link is made.

It goes against the grain in doing this but, so far, it has a positive effect and both can pass each other in the early evening without unearthly cat sounds and a skirmish.

What is strange is that this confrontation doesn't occur during the day and the big 'fella' gets on with all the other cats as does Millie. I think it is a mixture of boisterous playing and the I'm the boss cat. However, it doesn't appear to be a classic case

Mark · « **Reply #35 on:** October 13, 2007, 23:49:05 PM »

I was looking at the serene-um thread and think I will look into herbal remedies. I can't just evict one of my cats without trying everything first

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #34 on:** October 13, 2007, 23:32:51 PM »

Actually, I do think there is something in the fat cats having issues, they can't tell us how they are feeling. Admittedly, not all of my overweight cats have had those kind of issues, but Tom certainly did, and a couple have been nippers.

Millys Mum · « **Reply #33 on:** October 13, 2007, 20:04:17 PM »

I wouldnt think a crate would help Willow. Shes not urinating out of bad litter training but stress.
Can imagine kylie wandering past going ner ner your stuck in a cage

Made me laugh about fat cat attitude

Mark, i think you know what has to happen, its just setting the wheels in motion. Would you rehome her privately or through a rescue?
Im sure Sharon meets some lovely people with no other cats.

Liz · « **Reply #32 on:** October 13, 2007, 17:55:17 PM »

We were in the same situation for a while with everyone hating Minmin our rescue raggie but now we have a bit of peace as we intrioduced Sky and now even the ones who don't like each other are far more freindly

Have you tried re training her in a cat pen and confined to one room so you can re-educate her about the litter tray - we tried this with Minmin but it nearly had me on tranqullisers never mind the cat and then we opened the door to Minmin - she loves to chase leaves and although has the odd moment where she misses she is happier and so are we.

In our multi household we have some who love each other, others who tolerate each other and a couple of pairs who hate each other and spend all day stalking their respective nemisis and apart from the noise at least the claws are under control now.

Wer also have twice the space now and much more land and this has helped as all have their own spaces but all end up in the lounge and conservatory with the dogs and us in the evening and forget when chasing the laser pen that they don't like each other its a bit like humans all individuals and we make them live together - space works for us with a lot of catnip and feliway and 18 grit boxes!

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #31 on:** October 13, 2007, 13:13:57 PM »

Just to add my thoughts to the pot

I think getting a behaviorist in to see all the cats at home would be a good idea, if they are good they should be able to give some sound advice as to the cuase of the problem and how to resolve it, rehoming anyone would be a last resort only

Wont your insurance pay for this?

Mark · « **Reply #30 on:** October 13, 2007, 13:02:33 PM »

Clapton and Kylie are not best friends and Willow randomly attacks him but not in a violent way. Kylie has tried making peace but Willow won't have it. Kylie is a fatty, although has been on Obesity food for 2 months now. I don't believe in the weight/self esteem thing about cats. Kylie is just an alpha cat and has always been the same. I will have to think about it. There is no way Kylie is leaving - she's my baby

Lizzie · « **Reply #29 on:** October 13, 2007, 12:47:32 PM »

Sorry about your dilemma - it's so stressful. Do Clapton and Willow get on ok? If you are thinking seriously of rehoming one of your puds, would it not be best to rehome Kylie to a home WITHOUT other cats incase she starts to pick on Clapton if Willow was rehomed? Our Min's been a terrible bully in the past but she's been on a strict diet for the last 3 years and her temperment is so much better after the weight loss - my vet is a great believer in cat self-esteem and firmly believes that fat cats are not happy cats and some can tend have a bit of a bullying nature. Kylie's not a fatty, by any chance?

Poor you - it must be hellish to have to consider rehoming one of your cats but I think you should do whatever you think is best for the cats's welfare. I don't think you should even think of closing down your B&B because of this - it's your livelihood and very important. We all love our cats but we have to also think of ourselves sometimes...

Good luck..

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #28 on:** October 13, 2007, 08:53:35 AM »

I personally dont think closing the B & B to give her more space is the best plan, you might find yourself having to find another job and it might not help. Would giving her the space and effectively making her live a separate life really be the best thing for her? I personally think after 3 years, rehoming is your only option, and I know it sounds harsh, but you have to put her first, and if she is weeing in inappropriate places to that extent, and having another cat picking on her, she isn't happy.

blackcat · « **Reply #27 on:** October 12, 2007, 19:22:16 PM »

Mark I know the wages are low in Whitstable but London is not the only employment option - what about Canterbury? There a sure to be a number of options available within an easy commute that, while they may pay less, provide an alternative to beingfinancially dependent on Dennis. If you factor in the cost of commuting when doing the math that might make some of the alternatives, more locally a lot more attractive. If you could work part time, so much the better... have a hunt around, I suspect you may find the options are not so limited as you think they are at present...

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #26 on:** October 12, 2007, 17:16:22 PM »

All I can share from experience is that peeing CAN stop if the direct source of stress is removed. In South Africa, we at one time even thought we may have to rehome Max or worse as he peed everywhere in the house. Behaviourist was a complete waste of time and money. The vet put him (Max unfortunately, not the expensive behaviourist) on Busparone, a human drug which did help a little bit. However when we moved, Max was cured (no more dogs next door we think) and has not peed once since - so if Willow can find her own space, she may well stop the peeing. HTH a bit. Horrible decision.
If you can avoid working in London, it has to be good.
all the best Mark.

lilycat · « **Reply #25 on:** October 12, 2007, 17:07:21 PM »

Can you [guests permitting] put some time to one side this weekend and mull the situation over?

I know you already know this...selling up is a massive decision to make and not one [sorry everyone] that would be advisable to do solely for the sake of the kitties. BUT, you might find that it could benefit you all long term. How about a 'pros and cons' list of selling up against staying?

nothing but good thoughts for you

Mark · « **Reply #24 on:** October 12, 2007, 16:55:46 PM »

Quote from: Millys Mum on October 12, 2007, 16:29:44 PM

Its horrible hearing cats fight, especially when its your own. The local toms always make me cringe.

If you closed the b&b could you sort out seperate entrances/exits for them so they could live seperate lives?

Not really practical to do that but at least they would have hiding places and less chance of crossing paths. When we closed for a few weeks last year. Kylie spent most of her time in the front 1st floor guest room - she loves it there

- She said she particularly like the resored victorian brass bed in there - well she spent most of the times sprawled across it

lucy · « **Reply #23 on:** October 12, 2007, 16:42:15 PM »

So sorry mark - what a hard position to be in!

Millys Mum · « **Reply #22 on:** October 12, 2007, 16:29:44 PM »

Its horrible hearing cats fight, especially when its your own. The local toms always make me cringe.

If you closed the b&b could you sort out seperate entrances/exits for them so they could live seperate lives?

Mark · « **Reply #21 on:** October 12, 2007, 15:14:51 PM »

I need to do something though - I have never lived off handouts so need to see what chance there is of going back to work. The wages locally are rubbish and not sure I want to commute to London every day. Got to give it some serious thought.

lilycat · « **Reply #20 on:** October 12, 2007, 13:59:31 PM »

Dawn's got a point you know, Mark...if Dennis was serious about shutting up shop you could give it some serious thought

After all, it wasn't so long ago you were saying you were getting hacked off with the whole B&B life

[well...the guests anyway]

Dawn F · « **Reply #19 on:** October 12, 2007, 13:21:18 PM »

what are waiting for Mark, close the b and b, put your feet up and give Willow her own room, Dennis has spoken!

Mark · « **Reply #18 on:** October 12, 2007, 13:19:40 PM »

I have thought about it but don't really want to pay £250 for the privilege of someone telling me to rehome one of them

lilycat · « **Reply #17 on:** October 12, 2007, 13:13:02 PM »

It's a terrible dilemma for you to be in Mark

Lily and Imogen don't get on either - they were ok until about 4 years ago when we think Lily bit Imogen's tail

[she ended up with a nasty abcess] and Imogen's never forgotten it. Now all Lily has to do is look at Imogen to get a growl in response...can't blame her though

. However, they usually give each other a bit of a wide berth so it isn't really a major problem.

Have you consulted a behaviourist about the problem yet?

Mark · « **Reply #16 on:** October 12, 2007, 12:15:35 PM »

Quote from: Stuart (Misty's Dad) on October 12, 2007, 10:58:21 AM

Oh Mark! for THREE years and they still can't get on
I feel for you justnow, with having to make a decision on what to do

When I moved in with GF years ago she had 3 furbabes "Marlyn, Monroe, and BK(Black Kat)" Marlyn was ok with Monroe
until BK came on the scene, and she just changed , and when I took Hamish and Misty over, She got worse
There was never any physical contact, but plenty of aggression from Marlyn, It was a real shame too cause Marlyn was a
Lovely Cat when you were alone with Her ( sooo affectionate ) But as Soon as any of the other's came into the room
That's when she would change , She would just Growel Hiss and Spit and vacate the room (warning the other's to
stay away) Misty used to chase Her (Just to wind her up Me think's) then Marlyn would stop dead in her tracks and go
into a Defensive Position, Misty always quickly changed His mind than, and would walk away !!
and Thats the way it was for year's !!
Misty, Hamish and Monroe were Boy's and BK and Marlyn were Girl's

Is there no one you Know (close) that may take Her, so you would still be able to see how she's getting on ??
What a Horrible situation to be in, It REALLY is a Shame they can't get on

I wish my mum had taken her before she got her own cat but due to the peeing, my mum said she couldn't risk willow doing it in her house. I told her willow would stop if she was the only cat but she said she wouldn't take the chance - I can't blame her really..

Mark · « **Reply #15 on:** October 12, 2007, 12:11:07 PM »

Also, this morning on the upstairs landing, where she pees so often and I am constantly shampooing, there is black mould. I put my hand under the cabinet and the carpet hasn't dried out and there was yellow mold growing on it

- there were also a couple of tiny fly things there. I am going out to get some mould remover but can't move the cabinet as its too heavy. It is also getting ruined as the legs are getting wet. Its an antique bureau we bought last year

clarenmax · « **Reply #14 on:** October 12, 2007, 11:25:46 AM »

I don't have any advice Mark, just wanted to send a

as I know this is really hard for all of you x

Susanne (urbantigers) · « **Reply #13 on:** October 12, 2007, 11:23:40 AM »

I'm sorry that things are not getting any better, Mark. I think your only real options are to consult a behaviourist and/or rehome one of the cats. They clearly don't get on and I don't think that's going to change after 3 years. The situation must be very stressful for Willow.

JackSpratt · « **Reply #12 on:** October 12, 2007, 11:20:06 AM »

I think the options are: 1) close the B&B for more space (as suggested by your OH) or 2) (and I really don't say this lightly) finding Willow a home where she feels less threatened. Preferably as an only cat, she sounds quite an anxious animal and much as I'm sure you both love her the best solution for her is to let her live somewhere she's not so wound up permanently.

Sorry, Mark. That might sound really unfeeling, but I don't mean it that way.

Gwen · « **Reply #11 on:** October 12, 2007, 11:15:01 AM »

Sorry to hear this is still going on Mark,it must stress you out so much

My two have the odd claw/paw,wouldn't really call it a fight,maybe a little scrap but usually when I say Ging/Grwndi they stop it,they are both as bad as eachother really but they will both eat together and sleep on the bed with me and my OH although they might be on the opposite ends of the bed

did see them the other week though on the same bad and touching eachother but not cuddling

Hope you find a solution to it all soon Mark

Stuart · « **Reply #10 on:** October 12, 2007, 10:58:21 AM »

Oh Mark! for THREE years and they still can't get on

I feel for you justnow, with having to make a decision on what to do

When I moved in with GF years ago she had 3 furbabes "Marlyn, Monroe, and BK(Black Kat)" Marlyn was ok with Monroe
until BK came on the scene, and she just changed

, and when I took Hamish and Misty over, She got worse

There was never any physical contact, but plenty of aggression from Marlyn, It was a real shame too cause Marlyn was a
Lovely Cat when you were alone with Her ( sooo affectionate

) But as Soon as any of the other's came into the room
That's when she would change

, She would just Growel Hiss and Spit and vacate the room (warning the other's to
stay away) Misty used to chase Her (Just to wind her up Me think's) then Marlyn would stop dead in her tracks and go
into a Defensive Position, Misty always quickly changed His mind than, and would walk away !!
and Thats the way it was for year's !!
Misty, Hamish and Monroe were Boy's and BK and Marlyn were Girl's

Is there no one you Know (close) that may take Her, so you would still be able to see how she's getting on ??
What a Horrible situation to be in, It REALLY is a Shame they can't get on

swampmaxmum · « **Reply #9 on:** October 12, 2007, 09:56:40 AM »

I'm sorry; what an awful situation. In my experience with various cats that didn't like each other, the best you can hope for is passive tolerance. My aunt though had 5 cats who all hated each other and used to lie in wait to attack each other. I'm sure you're right that it's the stress that's making Willow pee. Sorry, no ideas that are much help. More space may mean that they could avoid each other more I suppose.

Dawn F · « **Reply #8 on:** October 12, 2007, 09:55:54 AM »

sounds like a nice option!!

Mark · « **Reply #7 on:** October 12, 2007, 09:49:18 AM »

Dennis says close the B&B and there will be a lot more space for them to negotiate over which might solve it.

Bazsmum · « **Reply #6 on:** October 12, 2007, 09:25:35 AM »

Aw bless her

Sound's like she needs to be in a family with no dominant cats about

Mark · « **Reply #5 on:** October 12, 2007, 09:22:44 AM »

Yes definately

Bazsmum · « **Reply #4 on:** October 12, 2007, 08:50:40 AM »

Do you think this may be playing a big part in Willow's wee wee probs?

Mark · « **Reply #3 on:** October 12, 2007, 08:28:26 AM »

They have been living together for over 3 years and still react like a strange cat is in the house

Its a serious problem probably ending in one of them going

Stuart · « **Reply #2 on:** October 12, 2007, 01:00:41 AM »

Kylie sounds like a bit of a bully

, Misty was a Bit of a Bully with Hamish sometimes and I would always stop it !!
It was never really an aggressive thing with them,(Hamish didn't have an aggressive bone in His body, and never started trouble)
unless He was wanting to play.

Most of the time they got on

But Misty had an evil streak!!

for instance, they would be cleaning one another, then Misty would really start to clean Hamish's ears very roughly
( Which Hamish didn't like ) He would try and get away, and that's when Misty would take a swipe or bite, little

that He is

But sometime's Hamish would get the better of Misty, and in those cases I would just leave them to it

they had me in fit's of laughter one time when Hamish was sleeping, and for No reason at All, Misty Jumped up beside
Him and started to Bite Hamish, Hamish went into the Defensive position ( on His Back ) Misty's head was at Hamish's
back end and vica versa, Misty was standing and could only bite, But every time He tried Hamish would give Him a
Double pawed Back kick smash to the face

, and at the same time Hamish was gripping Misty's back end with His
Forelegs and kept Biting the Back legs of Misty

The look on Misty's face was a real picture, you could see him getting Madder and Madder all the time cause he couldn't
get in about to bite Hamish

and I couldn't do nothing for laughing,, after all Misty started it !!!

He walked away from that one well and truly Hacked Off

Have you Had Willow Long ?? It's a shame that they cant get on

Mark · « **Reply #1 on:** October 11, 2007, 23:16:06 PM »

Kylie was on my lap and Clapton was asleep next to us - domestic bliss - until willow came in the room. She saw kylie and backed out and went back upstairs. Five minutes later, kylie flew off my lap with Willow screaming. Kylie had her corner by the back door and they were making those horrible noises cats make outside at eachother. I know Vicky Halls says you shouldn't come between them but I felt so sorry for willow. I put a huge cushion between them and Willow ran into the bedroom. Kylie gave me a filthy look and went out while willow hid under the bed

- Now Willow is in a recess window over the sofa, out of Kylies way. She has a bed up there and its nice and warm. I think rehoming is going to be the only option sadly.

Author Topic: Willow & Klie fighting again - don't know what to do (Read 5194 times)