Topic: Lazer treatment for cats with Gingivitis (Read 8562 times)

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #33 on:** February 17, 2009, 07:43:16 AM »

Fingers crossed you can get some Antirobe for him today, I would be very surprised if that didn't knock it on the head - and it is easy to administer, as you can open the capsules and mix it in things, Sam takes his in cat milk, as I can't even open his mouth.

Millys Mum · « **Reply #32 on:** February 16, 2009, 20:04:48 PM »

Good luck, at least if you change antibiotic its a good a start for him

CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls · « **Reply #31 on:** February 16, 2009, 20:00:33 PM »

I know, it's lasted since christmas which has been the longest ever!

He's at the vets tomorrow, thats if my vets on. Will chat with him then

Millys Mum · « **Reply #30 on:** February 14, 2009, 20:24:00 PM »

He wont get well on the steroids, its those that worsen his problem, the antirobe would help knock the infection on its head and then it would be wean off the preds time, which is a slow process. Means to an end tho

He will feel alot better if you can shift the infection

CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls · « **Reply #29 on:** February 13, 2009, 13:34:37 PM »

Yes my vet is, like I said he is going alone with what I want for Ollie and Im sure if I suggest something he will be willing to give it a go. He said he has not seen many cases like Ollie's and would like to help the little fella as much as he can.

I remember being told at one point Ollie's condition would be something for the science labs, but obviously I'm not going to let that happen! I think he meant that he would need to be studdied and intensive tests done. Which I would like to happen so it could cure him, but not in a Guinea pig way

So how would he get onto the Metcam? Would he need to get well then be weaned off the steroids then start? Do the steroids have to be totally out of his system before the Metcam starts.

Sorry for being dumb, these treatments are all new to me. Very grateful for the help thats been given

Millys Mum · « **Reply #28 on:** February 13, 2009, 12:13:20 PM »

He wont be able to have metacam until hes completely off the steroids, i would guess at £15 a bottle but you could buy online if he ends up on it longterm. It does last quite a while tho.
Antirobe cost more than your basic ABs but not hugely so it would depend how long a course hes given, simon had 2 weeks when his mouth was bad.

I hope your vet is open to a new treatment routine

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #27 on:** February 12, 2009, 21:46:10 PM »

Metacam is an anti-inflammatory which will prob do a better job than steroids, and Antirobe is a very good antibiotic, much better for dental issues than Convenia, I wont allow cats to have Convenia for mouth issues anymore, the last two have had that and steroids and a fortnight later have had to have Antirobe, which has done the job in days.

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #26 on:** February 12, 2009, 20:00:42 PM »

Ask your vet about Co-enzyme Q10 too, its really recomended for gum problems and there are veterinary versions, although same as those for humans actually.

CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls · « **Reply #25 on:** February 12, 2009, 19:43:08 PM »

Well he has the salaver back at the sides of his mouth again

He's at the vets next tuesday so am going to write things down and tell the vet when i go.

Ollie has been mighty fine these last couple of days, he's been rolling about in catnip

but yesterday I had to clean his mouth again.

So what am I suggesting to the vet, Metcam and Antrobe? Which one is to replace the steroids? And roughly how much will they cos? Would prefer to have a rough price in my head so I dont get a shock at the vets lol

Im going to have a read of that site thanks everyone

Millys Mum · « **Reply #24 on:** February 11, 2009, 16:48:55 PM »

Quote from: Gillian (Ambercat) on February 11, 2009, 16:29:22 PM

I already posted that site several days ago

Yep

was reposting because the bit needs to be firmly between the teeth to get this cat off preds and convenias, its getting him no where fast

If CC believes the steroids control his problems they wont get changed, dr addies site should change that faith

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #23 on:** February 11, 2009, 16:29:22 PM »

I already posted that site several days ago

Millys Mum · « **Reply #22 on:** February 11, 2009, 16:01:51 PM »

Have you read dr addies site? http://www.dr-addie.com/stomatitis.html

The steroids are causing you to go round in circles, they help initially and then cause problems aswell as the risk of diabetes.

Quote

Corticosteroids are absolutely contraindicated because of the high rate of diabetes mellitus development following long term therapy, the risk of obesity and because whilst they appear to help the cat initially, there is a bounce-back effect - with the cat re-presenting with worse clinical signs than initially and requiring higher and higher doses just to maintain. Corticosteroids suppress both humoral and cell-mediated immunity, reducing the cat's chance of clearing the infection, and cause thinning of the epithelium.

It would be wise to print off her suggested treatments and show it to your vet, weaning off steroids and trying metacam would be the first thing id do along with antirobe, the infection will be making him feel like poo

CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls · « **Reply #21 on:** February 09, 2009, 20:43:47 PM »

Thanks Madies mum.

We tried Ollie on half a seroid tablet a day, then as it was being manged, we cut it down to half a tablet every other day. Ollie was very good with the 2.5mg a day but once it got cut back to every other day he got ill again. So there was a stage where the steroids were being reduced and Ollie did not cope very well, he got ill and I felt he needed the 5mg a day again. Then started the infections so he has been on 5mg a day since christmas. Also if he dosnt get the steriods his glands get rather inflamed and the size they go is really unreal.

Once he has had a steroid jab his glands go down totally, within an hour, why is that?

So once I feel Ollie has got rid of this infection and is feeling well in himself, I will try to reduce the steroids again.

Its really tough when he's ill cos he needs lots of steroids to stop other things kicking in.

Maddiesmum · « **Reply #20 on:** February 09, 2009, 08:56:10 AM »

I can't offer you any advice but hope that your vet will listen to you and that Ollie can be helped sore mouths are dreadfully wearing

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #19 on:** February 09, 2009, 08:05:25 AM »

i wonder if Ollie would be better if he wasn't on daily steroids, as he might be less prone to infections. Obviously discuss with vet and dont stop immediately, as you need to tailor off steroids, but I would be rethinking that treatment.

CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls · « **Reply #18 on:** February 08, 2009, 22:34:01 PM »

Thanks Ruth. Do you know where I could find any in the north east, Cleveland area? Well not my area exactly I can travel but all those are quite far away from me.

koscha (Ruth M) · « **Reply #17 on:** February 08, 2009, 21:59:26 PM »

I think were all agreed on here that steriod treatments are not a good thing for Ollies condition.... the dr-addie site makes mention of the fact that suppression is the worst thing as the problem gets worse and it allows secondary infection.

It appears the trick is to allow the immune system to do its work by bolstering it, thats what the antirobe and the virbac will do. If you trust your vet mention it, discuss it. Take the evidence from these sites, it sounds that he will really appreciate the heads up

By the way i've found a list of dental specialists in the UK for you...

http://www.vetindex.co.uk/vetindex/dent_ref.htm

CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls · « **Reply #16 on:** February 08, 2009, 21:33:32 PM »

Well he is on daily steriods to surpress his immune system, which in turn is leaving him open to getting infections, which in turn is making him ill

I trust my vet and wont be changing to another, I already changed my vets as the other vets didn't even take into consideration what I wanted to do or try with Ollie, my cat and they always had the final say. So I changed to a better vets, the one who im with now. This vet lets me say what I want for Ollie and he goes along with me, Im sure he will be willing to try other things with him, he wants to see Ollie cured as much as I do.

To be honest any vet that has seen Ollie, has no reason for his condition, they are really stumped by it and I dont think its something many vets know about.

I would love to be able to speak with a vet that deals with these kind of conditions to see if they could be of any help, but its knowing where to start

Janeyk · « **Reply #15 on:** February 08, 2009, 21:16:56 PM »

Quote from: Desley (booktigger) on February 08, 2009, 20:00:23 PM

Antirobe is an antibiotic that is excellent on dental issues, and I would definitely push the vet for it, I can't believe the vet doesn't already use it. The only drug I can think of that does suppress the immune system is steroids, but they are the worst drug to use in dental issues according to Dr Addie.

That is what my vet told me when I asked about it, that it is one of the best for dental problems although there are others Antirobe seems the best.

Schui's was an overactive immune problem, my vet never suggested suppressing it - I could be wrong but I would be a bit cautious about doing that incase the cat picked up infections.

koscha (Ruth M) · « **Reply #14 on:** February 08, 2009, 21:15:39 PM »

Interferon is a natural product produced naturally by a cats body (or many other animals including us) in the presence of RNA ( form of DNA found in many pathogens) that fights these 'nasties' for want of a better word. The product is a synthetic form of this immune response that is regulary administered via injection. It allows the t cells etc to do thier job unhindered by not allowing any pathogen to invade cells and replicate. The paper states that successful resolution in the case they report was achieved in under 8 weeks.

This was after surgery was unsuccessful...I would suggest that you have a discussion with your vet about a course of ANTIROBE (for the current infection) and VIRBAC (the interferon). If he refuses or doesn't have a clue, ask for a referal to a specialist.

your vet must be made to understand that you are deadly serious that the current treatment Ollie is getting is insufficient and is not resolving the problem. Lets hope he will take positive action on this instead of dismissing it out of hand....

If I was you CC, I would print all the links on this page out and take them to your next consult, that way he can read them (he might even be able to get the paper for the interferon treatment) and chew it over.....

Will keep my fingers crossed for you....

CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls · « **Reply #13 on:** February 08, 2009, 20:51:19 PM »

Interferon sounds good

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interferon

CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls · « **Reply #12 on:** February 08, 2009, 20:36:18 PM »

Thanks Ruth.

What is Interferon, something that is used just in the case of an infection or something that can be used all the time to treat the problem?

To be honest I dont know which antibiotic has been used with Ollie I have never asked. All I have been told at the time was the one he was using was stronger than the last.

koscha (Ruth M) · « **Reply #11 on:** February 08, 2009, 20:30:20 PM »

A link to a paper that reports successful use of interferon (Virbac) on refractory feline chronic gingivostomatitis (related to Ollies condition very closely)....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17286664?dopt=Abstract

I have no access rights to the full text....sorry....

Edited to say BTW....that dr-addie site gives excellent advice, i've been learning a lot about feline illnesses while doing my paper searches and it's bang on the money IMO.

CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls · « **Reply #10 on:** February 08, 2009, 20:16:59 PM »

Yes thanks will ask the vet about it if the problem persists.

Millys Mum · « **Reply #9 on:** February 08, 2009, 20:10:50 PM »

Interferon is used for some mouth problems but i dont know much about it other than its pricey and is hit and miss with how useful it is.

Although his problem wouldnt be cured by antirobe it will sort out the secondary issue of a very nasty infection.

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #8 on:** February 08, 2009, 20:00:23 PM »

Antirobe is an antibiotic that is excellent on dental issues, and I would definitely push the vet for it, I can't believe the vet doesn't already use it. The only drug I can think of that does suppress the immune system is steroids, but they are the worst drug to use in dental issues according to Dr Addie.

CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls · « **Reply #7 on:** February 08, 2009, 19:58:25 PM »

Does anyone know of any drug that would calm his immune system down and reduce the white cells? This seems to be the main problem he has.

CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls · « **Reply #6 on:** February 08, 2009, 19:56:54 PM »

I dont know if lazer treatment would do anything for him, Im just trying to find out about other options for him. I must try everything before I can be satisfied that I done my best for him. But the options are running out and I dont feel I have done right by him yet.

I have to try everything possible before I would let him go.

What is antrobe? I will ask the vet about it next time but hopefully this infection will go. Is Antrobe something just used as an antibiotic or a painkiller too?

Thanks for the links Gillian.

Janeyk · « **Reply #5 on:** February 08, 2009, 19:33:34 PM »

I have not heard of it either sorry, but Schui had this really bad and was a nightmare seeing to him, he had some removed before we adopted him then we faffed about every day scraping tartar off

and occasional steroid injections as his gums were all red and inflamed. Like your friend after removing all his teeth he has been fine. Byron has all but 2 of hers removed (which were too set in the jaw so unable to remove) she has to have antirobe occasionally for those. Each case is different though I suppose and I wish poor Ollie well xx

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #4 on:** February 08, 2009, 19:31:20 PM »

i agree with Antirobe, my last two male fosters have had convenia and steroid jab at the rescues vet, my vet has given them Antirobe and literally 3 doses (so a day and a half) is enough to make a massive difference. It isn't really that expensive, I think Sam's 10 day course cost just over £6 plus VAT.

Millys Mum · « **Reply #3 on:** February 08, 2009, 19:25:35 PM »

The ab inj hes having obviously isnt working, please please please ask your vet about antirobe, i mentioned this on your last post about it, they are the greatest thing for crappy mouths, convenia is sometimes nothing but a load of

dont waste your money

I dont see how laser treatment would sort an immune related condition? If anyone has papers about it i would be interested to read

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #2 on:** February 08, 2009, 14:20:46 PM »

Don't know anything about the laser treatment, sorry. Have you looked at Dr Addies site about stomatits? probably have, but just in case, http://www.dr-addie.com/stomatitis.html . Holistic vet Richard Allport recommends Co-enzyme Q10 for gum/mouth probelms, might be worth a try.

CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls · « **Reply #1 on:** February 08, 2009, 09:08:19 AM »

Has anyone ever heard or seen a case of this?

I had Ollie to the vets on Friday and he did have an infection in his mouth again, which I think has been there since Christmas time. He also had his 3rd anti-b jab, so hopefully this will sort the infection out. I dont know tho cos I have just had to wipe his mouth as he had some brown stuff at the side of his lip

No green salava tho which I suppose is a good thing.

I was talking to a woman at the vets and she said her sisters cat had gingivitis, and when he had ALL of his teeth removed he was compleatly better, and that he dosn't have it anymore. Although I know Ollie's is a bit more than just gingivitis. So I asked the vet would having the rest of his teeth removed help at all, the vet said he doubts it as the problem is at the back and Ollie only has teeth at the front.

I also asked him about lazer treatment, to which he said he knew nothing about, I suppose he wouldn't as it would be a specialist vet that would have to do it. I also read that the ulcers are deep into the skin, so would getting the top layers lazered off really help anyways?

Oh I dont know what to do or what the next step with Ollie can be, I dont know what more can be done for him.

There must be someone here that has been through something the same?

Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

I cant bear to see him battle with this anymore and on the other hand I couldn't bear to loose him. It's so unfair!

Author Topic: Lazer treatment for cats with Gingivitis (Read 8562 times)