Author Topic: Do cats actively remember?  (Read 2864 times)

Offline Sam (Fussy_Furball)

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Re: Do cats actively remember?
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2007, 16:27:41 PM »
I can only speak from my experience as a cat slave for my entire life but my three all run and hide if anyone comes to the door - Zephyr hides on the top shelf in the airing cupboard (and will not come out untilt he visitors have gone) and Foxy hides in the spare room (both Foxy and Zephyr were bought from an excellent breeder ... they were well socialized, have never been abused, hurt or mistreated in anyway). 

Rossi on the other hand had a fairly exciting start to her life ... she spent her first 6 months living in the kitchen and kitchen only of her first home .... she then came to me and on her first day escaped from her carrier and was "lost" for 2 days and 2 nights aged 6 months old.  Although she had never been abused or hurt she is such a bolshy little thing that she will run intothe next room when visitors come round however within minutes she strolls into the room and always introduces herself to anyone in the house!



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Offline dolcetta46

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Re: Do cats actively remember?
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2007, 16:17:40 PM »
Yep, that's the funny things about cats, I spoke from my own experiences with the cats I have known, but I know you can never really stereotype them. 

I thought Oliver was getting a little better with the visitors but I think it took a drastic turn for the worse since last evening, he is particularly scared of Cris's biggest (literally) son Laslo 19, he is massive and looks like (and the size of) Hagrid from the Harry Potter flick.  The lad tries to be friends, even offered a piece of panettone which Oliver can NOT resist, he would just run over and grab it and immediately turns around and runs away with the cake in his mouth.  :(    This morning he looked horrified to see him still there, left his brekky half eaten and ran back to hide under the bed... :shocked:  I don't know, but this boy is almost 190cm tall (6ft 4) and weighs over 130kg (290lbs), maybe Oliver takes him to be a bear or something... :Crazy:  He left the flat earlier today but Oliver is still hiding...  I really feel sorry for both of them I don't know how they could make peace in the future!! :Crazy:

Offline Tiggy's Mum

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Re: Do cats actively remember?
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2007, 15:58:49 PM »
  It seems to me that a spoiled indoor cats who are not used to any contacts with other human beings are especially shy.

I'm not sure about the indoor cat connection to be honest... Lucas is the quieter out of the two, he can also be a bit of a scaredy cat - like when the freezer made a nasty noise when he was eating and the time Riley trapped his paw and made a howling commotion.  However, he is a complete tart with visitors, as soon as he comes back into the living room (after the initial darting off on hearing the doorbell) he'll rush straight up to the 'new' people and flop over as though he has been shot to have his belly rubbed by them.

Offline dolcetta46

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Re: Do cats actively remember?
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2007, 15:52:59 PM »
Well Oliver is exactly like that, he is a live velcro around us while extremely anti-social to the vast majority of our visitors, but to my knowledge I don't believe he had any traumatic or abusive experience involving humans, aside from he, along with his siblings was rather bullied about by other adult cats in his former home. 
No visitors has yet to touch him though a lucky few had a glimpse of him momentarily.  He remembers things well though, one testimony was when he made an exception with Devi, his former meowmy when she visited us last week after over 3 months of separation, he went straight up to her and purred while being cuddled. 
I think, though from my experience, it is fairly natural for a cat to be unsociable, especially at the first instance, while this doesn't necessarily applies to every cat.  It seems to me that a spoiled indoor cats who are not used to any contacts with other human beings are especially shy.

Forgot to mention, Oliver loves to go into cupboard, too, he comes running whenever we open it.  I think it is a great place for a cat, lots of interesting holes and hideaways to snuggle in, like a perfect cat haven! ;)
« Last Edit: December 30, 2007, 15:55:24 PM by dolcetta46 »

Offline Bazsmum

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Re: Do cats actively remember?
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2007, 15:37:27 PM »
Hmmm very interesting me thinks also  ;)

Offline Christine (Blip)

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Re: Do cats actively remember?
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2007, 14:46:25 PM »
Do you have access to Athens etc, maybe through a university server / student access? Otherwise, I'm afraid you won't be able to access them. [...] However, if you do have an athens account, it might be quicker to do a search in the various animal behaviour, animal cognition, animal learning etc journals using "feline" as your search criteria.

I believe I am allowed to access texts from Durham; if not, my friend is an OU tutor  ;).  I am very interested in your contribution here and would be keen to read some source material, so if you do fall over something on the subject, please drop me a PM and let me know the details.

 :thanks:
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Offline Mark

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Re: Do cats actively remember?
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2007, 09:01:28 AM »
Alice lived under a car for a year before being resued and for the first few weeks here, she stayed under the bed which is similar. If she isn't sure about something, she still goes under it. When she has eaten, she always goes under it to clean herself.
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Offline Gwen

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Re: Do cats actively remember?
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2007, 23:36:44 PM »
Another cat with an underwear fetish :shify: :shify: :evillaugh:
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Offline fluffybunny

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Re: Do cats actively remember?
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2007, 22:33:08 PM »
Interesting - thanks everyone!  I guess I should be grateful that they have settled so quickly and well with us two even if they don't like anyone else!!   Also glad to hear that the cupboard thing is perfectly normal - my previous cat lived to nearly 20 and he never did have an interest in cupboards so I guess I've never really associated it with a cat thing.  Although we did come home from the pub this evening and discovered my hubby's socks scattered all over the bedroom floor - he swears it wasn't him so there must have been a cat rummaging about in his slightly ajar drawer  :rofl: :rofl:

Offline Tiggy's Mum

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Re: Do cats actively remember?
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2007, 21:07:05 PM »
But...

As soon as the doorbell rings they bolt off into or behind the nearest place to hide, every time I open a cupboard or drawer they get straight in it, and if we have visitors they will go and hide in a cupboard (although after a few hours if the visitors are quiet they may possibly come down to investigate). 

On a much less technical note than the other responses, and I'm not sure what it proves or disproves but the boys (who I have had since kittens and have had no traumatic experiences ) run and hide when they hear the doorbell.  Nobody 'mean' has ever come into my house but I guess the way they see it is that when the door opens with no doorbell sound then it's their Mum so they come rushing up to meet me but when they hear that sound and the door opens then scary 'new people' will be coming into their home.  They are normally back in the living room within 10 mins of visitors arriving so their 'fear' doesn't last long but nonetheless it still happens everytime the doorbell rings.

As for cupboards and drawers... that's PERFECTLY normal behaviour  :evillaugh:  Every morning when I remove the heavy make up case which blocks access to the wardrobe doors they both make a beeline for the wardobe, pawing and hooking the heavy doors until they break in  :sneaky:  The cat that has been successful in the first break in then pokes their paws out the crack goading the 'loser' who is sat on the outside - endless fun  :innocent:

Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

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Re: Do cats actively remember?
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2007, 20:55:55 PM »
Misa and Sasa are classic trauma cats and Misa will run at the sound of what he thinks is another human and was scared at me with a hat on. Sasa is taking a very long time to come round and after over two years is showing the first signs of wanting to join in but still cant force herself to allow stroking.............but I think we so close.  ;D

Offline unseeliechylde

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Re: Do cats actively remember?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2007, 20:49:35 PM »
I'll have to look them up for you, Christine - they are all animal behavior journals downloaded from Elsevier and Athens online journals using Aberdeen university ejournal service - I'll need to look them out (I'm a hoarder with these things - I've god over 500 on various topics, from human neuroscience to feline behaviour). Do you have access to Athens etc, maybe through a university server / student access? Otherwise, I'm afraid you won't be able to access them.
I'll have a sift through over the next while and see if I can get some titles / authors for you, if I can find them....(they are variously stored under our bed, and in various folder all over the flat - we don't have much storage space!). However, if you do have an athens account, it might be quicker to do a search in the various animal behaviour, animal cognition, animal learning etc journals using "feline" as your search criteria.

Offline Christine (Blip)

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Re: Do cats actively remember?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2007, 20:37:56 PM »
Have you got a reference for this please, unseeliechylde?

 :thanks:
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Offline unseeliechylde

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Re: Do cats actively remember?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2007, 19:36:27 PM »
Cats [...] interpret environmental cues based largely on vision

Now that fascinates me as it is, to my mind, counter-intuitive (unless we are talking about movement only) - have you got a reference I can research, unseeliechylde?

In this context, its a relative thing - though domestic dogs have learned to use more visual cues as a result of living alongside humans, they still rely more on smell and sound given the choice. Compared to dogs, a cats sense of smell is very poor (though its infinately better than ours), and they respond more to vision and sound. Movement is of course very important, but cats vision has very good resolution (though not as fine as ours) - they see in higher contrast than we do, so shapes and postures are very important to them - just look at how they "talk" to each other - its all facial and postural, with some vocalisation thrown in for good measure.
Cats do use smell extensively in their environment - more so than we do - but their ability to follow routes and use environmental cues is not affected if you disrupt smell cues - they just use visual ones instead. They also respond more readily to a change in physical behaviour compared to a change in smell - an owner can smell totally different but behave the same way, and this will cause minimal confusion, but should someone smell the same yet behave (eg the way the walk or gesture) differently, cats show more confusion and disorientation.
There are soime good animal behaviour journals you can find through elsever and athens, and some of the more advanced textbooks on feline physiology and behaviour are good, albeit pricey!

edited to add: the reliance on visual cues refers to observational learning and conditioning in cats - they seem to learn visually more easily than dogs, provided it isn't social learning. Dogs are better at human social learning - better, in fact, than either chimps or autistic children. Cats learn very well visually in most other domains, but social learning in cats is more complex
« Last Edit: December 29, 2007, 19:38:52 PM by unseeliechylde »

Offline Christine (Blip)

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Re: Do cats actively remember?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2007, 19:01:43 PM »
Cats [...] interpret environmental cues based largely on vision

Now that fascinates me as it is, to my mind, counter-intuitive (unless we are talking about movement only) - have you got a reference I can research, unseeliechylde?
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Offline unseeliechylde

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Re: Do cats actively remember?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2007, 18:50:27 PM »
There has been some more work done on feline cognition, Christine, but you won't find it in any psychology journal. Feline behavioural cognition, as with canine behaviour, is now a discipline in its own right. Compass animal behaviour courses offer several courses up to HND level in feline behaviour and cognition.
Cats do actively remember, and are just as responsive to observational learning, conditioning, counter-contidioning and implicit learning as dogs. However, they learn slightly differently, have subtly different motivations (and therefore preferred rewards), and interpret environmental cues based largely on vision, while dogs place more emphasis on smell, though both are adept at reading nonverbal, postural behaviour in humans. Cats don't respond to human social cues very well compared to dogs (eg. pointing at something to bring the animals attention to it), and they seem to take more trials to learn new behaviours (especially if said behaviour is outwith a naturalisic behavioural repetoire or context), but they forget less readily than dogs. This means that once they learn something it sticks, with little need for subsequent re-learning. However, the flipside is that counter-conditioning (say to get rid of a previously conditioned fear or phobia) is more difficult in cats, and takes longer (though its by no means impossible - it just takes a bit more time and patience).
In essence, fluffybunny, at some pont your babes may have had an aversive experience associated (correctly or incidentally) with doorbells, strangers etc. and they are just responding in what they believe is an appropriate manner. Alternatively, they may have been poorly socialised before you got them, making them shy and wary of strangers or too many people. Both my cats hide when people come round, but usually they come out to have a nosey (at a safe distance) once they are sure the person is not a threat. This is because my two were not socialised much at all for the first few months of their lives (which is the critical socialisation period). As a result, I know they will never be particularly confident or friendly around strangers or visitors, but neither are they terrified. So long as they are happy to cope with other people in their own way, that's fine by me.

Offline Christine (Blip)

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Re: Do cats actively remember?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2007, 17:45:02 PM »
All conditioned behaviour is learnt behaviour, but not all learnt behaviour is conditioned behaviour.  :Crazy:

No-one had done much work on cats memory when I studied psychology and I have a notion it is probably still the case!  My own instinct would be that a deeply traumatic experience is never forgotten, but I am just guessing.  From your account, Fluffybunny, your two are still a bit twitchy round strangers but I would say that was normal after only three months.

I think cats always like to retreat to cupboards and dens, just to be on the safe side when they are unsure about something new...
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Offline blackcat

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Re: Do cats actively remember?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2007, 16:59:29 PM »
I do think cats recall threats, whether as a conscious (oh gosh, here comes someone at the door and they might be dangerous so I had better hide) or unconscious (someone at the door - danger, must hide) is probably something we will never know until we learn to talk to our babes in a mutually shared language. I personally prefer not to anthropomorphise my animals so would probably opt for the learned danger response.

The making a beeline for cupboards and drawers is normal cat behaviour - a previously forbidden place is now accessible and therefore must be explored ...

Offline fluffybunny

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Do cats actively remember?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2007, 16:55:44 PM »
I was just wondering whether cats really do remember 'traumatic' things which have happened to them, or whether ongoing behaviour can be as a result of being conditioned over a period of time.

Our cats were rescued from a one bedroom flat which they shared with a 14 month old baby  :Crazy: (and her owner).  When they first came here they were terrified and hid for days, only venturing out to eat/use the loo at night.  Now, three months on, they are the most lovely, relaxed and friendly pair of cats you could ever wish for...with me and my hubby.  They are lap cats, they love to be around us and one of them likes to get into bed with us.

But...

As soon as the doorbell rings they bolt off into or behind the nearest place to hide, every time I open a cupboard or drawer they get straight in it, and if we have visitors they will go and hide in a cupboard (although after a few hours if the visitors are quiet they may possibly come down to investigate). 

They certainly don't look scared when climbing into cupboards, they literally just make a beeline for them as soon as I open them, but they do actively bolt when the doorbell goes.  I just wondered whether they are still actively scared or whether now it's just learnt behaviour.

It doesn't bother me - I'm just curious to know whether cats are thought to retain long memories or whether they are in fact now just being the feline equivalent of pavlov's dogs.

 


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