Dry food

[Gillian Harvey]

right I've been to tesco and have my chicken wings - so I don't cook them, i cut them in three and stand back is that right - how long should I leave them down before they become a health risk!!

LOL! - doubt they'll be around long enough to become a health risk! Yep just cut them into 3 (you don't have to cut them up, its just that if cats havent come across anything like this before they can find a whole wing a bit daunting - like someone's given them some enormous dinasour bone!) No cooking, although don't give them cold straight from the fridge - can warm them up by putting in freezer bag and dunking in warm to hot water.

Don't expect them to take to it straight away - I mean some might, but some might look at you as if you is mad!  - but if you keep offering most get the hang of it. If some pieces are left, just dust 'em off (LOL!) and pop them in the fridge and try again tomorrow, wouldnt keep them any more than a day or two though. The others you can just freeze till you want them.

[Dawn F]

right I've been to tesco and have my chicken wings - so I don't cook them, i cut them in three and stand back is that right - how long should I leave them down before they become a health risk!!

[Gillian Harvey]

Having had cats all my life (and I'm 47 now) can I just reitereate others' comments that I only discovered to be true recently. Many cats don't like to drink at the same place they eat. I now have 3 bowls of water dotted throughout the house and all 3 prefer the bowls that are nowhere near their food. It's very odd but true.

Mine are the same Rosella!, the bowls in the kitchen where they are fed are not used anywhere near as much as the ones in the lounge or upstairs on the landing.

[Rosella moggy]

excuse me as a newbie .... but had to look at this topic as my first rescue cat doesnt drink water at all!!... well not indoors..... my daily wet toes from accidentally kicking his bowl can confirm this!

Having had cats all my life (and I'm 47 now) can I just reitereate others' comments that I only discovered to be true recently. Many cats don't like to drink at the same place they eat. I now have 3 bowls of water dotted throughout the house and all 3 prefer the bowls that are nowhere near their food. It's very odd but true.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Ah right, was curious.

[Gillian Harvey]

Gillian, I have read that you shouldn't feed dry and raw together due to the difference it takes to digest, do you find any probs, or do you feed such a small amount it is fine?

I don't feed it together with raw, they have their dry treats as a separate 'meal' at bedtime, and yes, its quite a small proportion of their overall diet. When I transitioned mine from dry, I started with ordinary wet food first, then wet food to raw.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Gillian, I have read that you shouldn't feed dry and raw together due to the difference it takes to digest, do you find any probs, or do you feed such a small amount it is fine?

[Gillian Harvey]

Gillian how did you manage to change a dry food addict.  Star will only eat science plan in one flavour, I would love her to have some wet food in her diet but am at a loss as to how I can change her

Mine were all dry food addicts! - I just did it very gradually, just the same as you would changing from one food to another. Also, I used to feed dry food the same as most people feed wet - twice, three times a day as a meal, rather than leaving food out all the time. So, I just added the teeniest bit of wet food alongside their biscuits the first time, if they ate it fine, if not, I just kept on adding a bit, till they were all at least trying it. Then just slowly increased the amount of wet, while decreasing the amount of dry. All done over several weeks, even a month, can't remember exactly how long it took, but it certainly wasnt instant!

[CurlyCatz]

all you can do is keep trying, i've even started scraping off a teaspoon of jelly from the other 2 cats tinned food and giving that to cody at night, he looks for it as a treat i think but was getting fed up wasting 30 odd pence tins every night.

At the end of the day dont fret overly, if she ate wet that would be magic but many cats live long lives eating dried aswell 

[Dawn F]

we've tried everything I can think of, we once got her to eat a bit of fish paste and so I rushed out and got loads of tins of gourmet souffle stuff because it was the same texture but no so tried again with the fish paste and she turned her nose up, she sniffs madly at cold meat, tuna, sardines everything really but just won't eat it oh put a bit of thin sliced turkey in her mouth the other day and she spat it across the room!!  I suppose I should be greatful she eats something but I would like it if she had a bit of wet food

[CurlyCatz]

dawn there are alot of hills addicts out there, i have one here asleep beside me 

Not so usual for them to only eat 1 flavour though, cody doesnt care which type so long as its hills he loves it, He also loves james wellbeloved turkey & rice ( i know its another dried but atleast it would be adding slightly more variety to start off with)

Cody hates wet food full stop, he likes the jelly and gravy and hi life petit pate tuna tins (has to be the smallest petit pate tins though) even then its the flavour he likes more than the texture as he licks it so consmes some of the meat that way but most of it is left 

He does like abit of raw chicken or sometimes red meat, have you tried that ?

[Dawn F]

Gillian how did you manage to change a dry food addict.  Star will only eat science plan in one flavour, I would love her to have some wet food in her diet but am at a loss as to how I can change her

[Gillian Harvey]

Dry food is a totally unnatural diet for a cat and I would never feed it as the only food again.

Believe me you would if you had a cat like my Jessica who has a bum like a cows backside    if she has one mouthful of wet food.

Did you ever get to the bottom (er, you know what I mean LOL!) of that Ela?

[Ela]

Dry food is a totally unnatural diet for a cat and I would never feed it as the only food again.

Believe me you would if you had a cat like my Jessica who has a bum like a cows backside    if she has one mouthful of wet food.

[Gillian Harvey]

Years ago (and I mean many, many years LOL) there only used to be wet food, plus the likes of Go Cat dry. Most people, myself included used to feed mainly something like Whiskas in a can, with Go Cat dry mixed in sometimes. It wasnt till about 11 years ago when I got my first pedigrees, that I was persuaded that dry food was the way to go, and didnt really questiion it then. After a while I started looking into cat nutrition and realised what a really ridiculous idea dry cat food is. This coincided with several of my cats having dental problems at quite young ages (some having to have extractions at 3-4 yrs of age), digestive upsets and the worse thing, urinary tract problems, leading to Ben suffering a blockage requiring emergency treatment.

So 2 yrs ago, after yet more research I changed them all (even the die hard dry food addicts!) onto wet food only, then gradually introduced high meat content foods and then finally onto a mainly raw diet. The change in their demeanour was evident straight away, they had more energy and there wasnt the awful hanging over the water bowl I used to see when they were fed dry only - they were getting all the moisture they needed from their food. Sadly it was too late for their dental problems, but Ben never suffered any more problems with cystitis etc, nor did the others who'd had that problem.

Dry food is a totally unnatural diet for a cat and I would never feed it as the only food again. I see dry biscuits as a treat food, and my cats get a handful each at bedtime every other night, on the other nights they have a couple of cubes of raw beef or chicken or whatever I've got available.

[bluecat]

Lexy pees for England too! I have to say that she's not a shy cat when it comes to that!! 

Gill just run the laser pointer around the living room a few times a day..that'll get the jelly belly going! 

Mary now just stares at the laser mouse rather than the dot

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I reckon mine wash their mouths out in the water bowls and thats how the food gets in 

[Desley (booktigger)]

Witty, why dont you just put teh water bowls further away from the food bowls so food can't get into them?

I have had cats that would only drink out of certain things and they had to be in a certain place - Snowy's was a wine glass that had to be in the front room, she wouldn't touch it if it was in teh kitchen - worried quite a few people!! They all seem to like the ceramic bowls from Wilkinsons though.

[Rockys Mum]

lol....yup ...thats cats - keep us on our toes!!

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Thanks Rocky, I am broke but have food for them ...............i am sure there are other kitties who are in need but thanks for very kind thought

just remembered i used to think that Kocka never drank but then found her outside drinking out of ouddles and plant saucers!! misa also the same , have never seen him drinking from bowls but I have a little watering can on worktop for my plants and he sits there dipping his paw in and sucking water of it.................cats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rockys Mum]

  lol... excuse me as a newbie .... but had to look at this topic as my first rescue cat doesnt drink water at all!!... well not indoors..... my daily wet toes from accidentally kicking his bowl can confirm this!

When we adopted him we were told he had a 1/4 tin morning and evening. we gave him dried as well. and he was always hungry!! He now waddles as he walks!

My newbie comes with the instructions of meat morning and evening and dried thoughout the day. He likes to drink - a bowl a day.

i have just bought some high quality dried food (rather than the supermarket stuff I usually get) - and they have both given it the "nose up!".... not even a nibble!!

so theres two bags here if you want Gill..... give me (and my tasters) the cheap stuff every Time!

Seriously thi - I did worry that Rocky hardly drank at all - the quotes put my mind at rest!

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

No I havent tried that but am broke at moment..................well prob till next year  so have decided no moreeeeeeeeeeeeee cat toys cos I have toys all over place. Keep stepping on mice that go squeak and wondering what was that and the panioc mouse is flat out most of time together with the battery charger!!

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

4 of mine will only eat dry food - this is their choice not mine ! Although 3 of these will eat Tuna but Lilly wont even touch tuna coz its wet !!

The other 6 will eat wet food aswell as dry

I always buy good quality dry food, never supermarket brands.
I did have them on Nutro Light for a while as a couple of them were over weight but i actually found they put more weight on !!!
At the moment they are having Autarky which they seem to love.

I remember my Vet telling me years ago to put my then cats onto a Dry diet only !

[Millys Mum]

occasionally from the water butt by the greenhouse.

Water butts are really dangerous, please stick a lid on it! Iv known several furries (not cats fortunately) to drown in a water butt.   

Toilets are also dodgy, they have a lot of chemical residues, would Pearl use a fountain?

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Have you tried the ba da beam, Gill?  It has a good strong laser and Mosi goes mad for it (he got bored with the normal laser toy from PAH).

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Doesnt work sadly Misa doesnt seem to be able to see it, Sasa loves it though 

[Kittybabe (Ruth)]

Lexy pees for England too! I have to say that she's not a shy cat when it comes to that!! 

Gill just run the laser pointer around the living room a few times a day..that'll get the jelly belly going! 

[Em]

To keep a dry diet only...can you imagine only drinking water and eating biscuits and rusks all day!!!?!!

Think it depends on the food, and on the cats. Mine have two different flavours which I alternate, and occasional (completely random) treats of wet cat food (e.g. they had HiLife this morning, 2 sachets between the 3 of them). Charley doesn't like most wet food as much as her biscuits (she likes things that go crunch), Seth will eat pretty much anything, and Sammy is management so has to push the boundaries just to see if they'll move - but he backs down and eats his biscuits after a token protest - and visibly enjoys them!!

Gill - I have the same problem with Seth. Am thinking of getting him a lead and taking him jogging... whaddya reckon? 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Mine get wet and dry, Purina One for the birmans and TechniCal for the big cats butttttttttt suddenly the birmans have started eating TechniCal biscuits and the meat food the others have. Up to a month or so ago the birmans would only touch fish stuff vbut it looks like they have decided that they like meat and poultry too.

Both Misa and Sasa have a go at the fish stuff..................I just give up and hope they all eat their share but always worried whether Ducha eats enough.

I know the others do cos of the size of their jelly bellys and hope Misa hasnt put on too much more weight!

When the better weather comes they will be out in the garden so maybe getting more exercise, me tooooooooooo 

[Reynard]

My two have a mix of wet & dry - wet at mealtimes and dry down all the time. Most of the dry, strangely enough, seems to be eaten during the night. The dry is a mix of things, Go Cat with RC and JWB mixed in.

As for drinking... Well, they each have their own dish, but Toby will only drink from Pearl's and occasionally from the water butt by the greenhouse. Pearl won't touch the water dishes because when Toby eats, he pushes food into them. She drinks from the toilet, the said water butt and a ceramic planter on the path.

Both seem to get enough moisture in their diet because they both pee for England!

[Kittybabe (Ruth)]

Lexy was started off on Hills Oral Care dry food to clean her teeth. Problem is as an indoor cat she was not exercising as much and then when she fell off the chair and had to go through two surgeries she was even less active, as a result she put on weight. Even when I reduced the amounts to such a level that I thought I may starve her, she still put on weight!!!

To keep a dry diet only...can you imagine only drinking water and eating biscuits and rusks all day!!!?!!

The vet was very annoyed with me that I just changed her food. She thought that the dry food was perfectly suitable for her. I changed her, after advice on here, to part dry part wet.  But she relented as she saw that it wasn't doing LExy any harm at all. She's still worried about her teeth but I give Lexy some Logic Gel on her paw to help with that.

Lexy drank plenty of water when she was on dry food and she still drinks the same amount now that I've chnaged her food.

So she is now on a range of the James Well Beloved Light food ( I have different flavours so she gets  a range) and Hills Light Wet food. Some days she gets less of the dry and regular Hills wet or the Purina Gourmet Solitaire as a treat, or she gets more dry and the ilght wet food.

SInce then she drink just enough water, pees once a day like clock work and she is looking healthier. The vet said she hasnt lost any weight but I can see her belly is a little smaller.

She only eats half a tin of the wet in the evenings and leaves some so I know she's gettign what she needs.

[Desley (booktigger)]

I think my cats eat better than me at times, but Tiger doesn't like good quality wet food!! I agree you can't tell what cats are going to have probs - Tom still had cystitis issues even on the prescription food - the vets knew he had had issues, but still gave us dry c/d for him, he just had normal wet food, nothing fancy and it kept it under control a lot better. If I could only afford either good quality wet or good quality dry, I would go for the good quality dry, I think it is more important.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

D'you know, I think our animals eat better than we do!! Does anyone else find that?

Just what I was thinking the other day as I gave Jaffa a bowl of applaws chicken and pumpkin with a dash of probiotic and a side serving of plaque off 

I think the most important factor in urninary or kidney disease is genetics.  Unfortunately there's no way of knowing whether a cat has a predisposition to these kind of things until they get them by which time much of the damage has been done and you're facing an uphill task trying to get them to eat wet food to get the hydration.  Jaffa used to drink plenty when he was on mostly dry and he looked and behaved like a healthy cat, but I'm glad he's on wet now as I realised about a year ago that at some point he had stopped drinking much, or at least I never saw him at the water bowl, despite the fact that his diet was about two thirds dry.  Mosi has about half and half now and seems to drink enough but I intend to increase the amount of wet so that he's on almost all wet by the time he's 3.

I do think good quality dry is often better than poor quality wet, unless there's an issue with hydration in which case I'd choose at least some wet regardless of quality (Jaffa is allowed a bit of felix along with his better quality stuff!)

[Em]

Some cats will naturally drink (and wee) more than others Em (bit like people) so if yours are drinking plenty then they'll be fine 

Think they drink more than me!!

Ela - I agree totally. I have friends who feed their cats fairly cheap biscuits, but since mine have been on dry food it's either been Nutro, James Wellbeloved or Trophy and they've been healthier than ever before. They get occasional fresh fish or wet cat food (Felix) (or a tin of tuna in Spring water), the odd spoon of salmon oil, and about once a month they get a teaspoon of goat's milk each, which they absolutely love. Oh, and they obviously all steal dog food but since she's on Trophy dried and Pedigree Small dog wet I'm not too bothered.

D'you know, I think our animals eat better than we do!! Does anyone else find that? I remember when I was on the dole, many years ago - first I'd buy a packet of fags (bad girl), then I'd buy enough cat food to last 2 weeks, and not the really cheap stuff either, then whatever was left was mine to spend on food for me... luckily I lived in the predominantly Asian part of Leicester at the time, Belgrave, and they have lots of really cheap grocers and corner shops ... mmm, curry  Oh, and my housemate fed the boys leftover kippers or mackeral most weekends...spoiled babies!!

[Team Svartalfheims]

Some cats will naturally drink (and wee) more than others Em (bit like people) so if yours are drinking plenty then they'll be fine 

[Ela]

Hmmm... my cats are fed mostly dry food

Some of our cats have been fed good quality dried for 10 yrs + and have had no  had any problems. It possible depends on the cat and its constitution and the food you give I would never give the cheap o that most supermatkets sell.

[Em]

Hmmm... my cats are fed mostly dry food (Trophy premium) although it's not as dry as some dry foods, if that makes sense - and it's fairly low in salt, too. If their urine volume has decreased I dread to think what it would be otherwise!! They drink a full bowl of water between them every day and their pee is only slightly yellow - well, it is for Sammy and Charley anyway; Seth still dashes outside rather than use a tray (or anything else in the house).

I remember reading somewhere that the dry kidney-diet foods basically had a high salt content to make the cats thirsty - could believe how irresponsible that is!! If you did that to humans there'd be an outcry!

[Team Svartalfheims]

I'm shocked at a vet suggesting only dry food. My main vet recommends a mix of wet and dry providing the cat will actually eat wet (the 3 that live at my mum's won't touch wet food and would rather starve themselves than eat it). More vets need to get a bit more up to date with regards to that and things like BARF diets.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Cheers - that third paragraph is what I seem to remember reading - I had wondered if I had just imagined it, but obviously not.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

What a ridiculous thing for a vet to say!  While most cats will drink more when fed dry than when fed wet, that doesnt' mean they're drinking enough.  And I'm sure Jaffa isnt' the only cat who drinks next to nothing even when on dry.

I have loads of stuff on this but unfortunately not time to sort out links etc right now, esp finding the actual research findings rather than articles.  However, this article refers to research (referenced at the end) and is good, imo.  A bit technical in places but easy to skip paragraphs that you don't want to read!

http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm

Relevent paragraphs include

The cat has evolved to obtain her water requirements almost entirely on the moisture content in her food - inherited from her desert-dwelling ancestors. Cats can live for long periods without drinking water when receiving food containing 67-73% water but become dehydrated when the water content of the food is 63% or less. Canned diets contain enough water that cats consuming them rarely need to drink.....Feeding a canned diet containing 78% moisture virtually guarantees homeostatic control of water balance in the cat.

and

The water content of the commercial foods commonly fed to cats varies from 8% in dry foods to over 75% in canned foods; thus the amount of drinking water required is affected substantially by the water content of the food.  When fed canned food (80% moisture)  with access to drinking water, cats obtain over 90% of their total water intake from the diet, whereas on dry food, 96% of the total water intake is obtained by drinking. The total free water intake (from food and drinking water) decreases when cats are fed dry food only, so that the water to dry matter intake ratio when fed on commercial dry foods varies from 2.0 to 2.8: 1 whereas on canned foods it varies from 3. 0 to 5.7: 1.  Thus for any given dry matter intake cats have a higher water turnover on canned than on dry foods.  (National Research Council [National Academy of Science] Nutrient Requirements of Cats).  Diet moisture content is related to the observation that cats fed dry food drink more than six times more water than cats fed canned food but that much of this water contributes to fecal moisture so that urine volume is lower and urine specific gravity higher in cats fed dry food.  The urine concentration of all solutes, including potentially calculogenic crystalloids, depends on urine volume. 
 

and

Cats increase voluntary water intake when fed dry food but not in sufficient amounts to fully compensate for the lower moisture content of the food.  In a recent study, cats consuming a diet containing 10% moisture with free access to drinking water had an average daily urine volume of 63 milliliters (ml). This volume increased to 112 ml/day when fed a canned diet with a  moisture content of  75%. Urine specific gravity was also higher in cats that were fed the low-moisture food.  Decreased urine volume may be an important risk factor for the development of urolithiasis in cats. Diets that cause a decrease in total fluid turnover can result in decreased urine volume and increased urine concentration, both of which may contribute to urinary tract disease in cats.  Several studies have shown that dry cat foods contribute to decreased fluid intake and urine volume.

I also like this article.  It doesn't cite research but it was written by a vet

http://www.catinfo.org/#Cats_Need_Plenty_of_Water_With_Their_Food

Hope that helps.