Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat General => General Cat Chat => Topic started by: CurlyCatz on November 19, 2006, 21:37:47 PM
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as far as i was aware if you get one they are basically freaks of nature and can have female reproductive parts aswell (cant remember where i read that)
i personally have never come across one
but i was just looking of Rons site and see he has a torie looking for a home which is described as HE and also another tortie that has been homes which is also described as HE
can someone suggest if this is a mistake or if brighton has a male tortie population ??
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Suspect it a typo but you could pm ron and ask him
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mmm we i'd have thought a typo but cant see that happening twice without it being noticed, was just about to get very interested in someone having 2 male torties.
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There are two ways of having a male tortie, one is an extra gene, there is a special name and it also happens in humans, and I can't remember the other one for the life of me - but it explains it in Messybeast. I would assume Ron's are typos, I have seen pics of male torties, and one of them had actually been used as a stud - but unlike females, they only pass on one of hte colour genes.
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gosh that's even more intriguing, i thought they were infertile if it happened LOL
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At least one of the male torties I have read about were pedigrees. Someone on my American forum posted a link of loads of them - post on this thread about 9ish tomorrow reminding me to root it out for you!!
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its a genetics thing, but as far as i know, although boy torties are unusual, they are normal when it does happen.
same with calico cats.
if anyones that intrigued i can find my notes on it and explain it all!!! i thought it was pretty cool, had never known this until last year in my lectures.
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You learn something new everyday don't you?! I thought that male torties were infertile too!
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well here's a little of what i remember....
cat coat colour is sex linked. females = XX, males = XY
something being sex linked mean that it is on the X chromosome.
if a gene is recessive it needs 2 the same to be expressed.
tabbie cat colour is recessive on the X, needs to be there twice for it to happen.
boy cats can be tabbie if they have an extra X chromosome. so they would be XXY.? this is called klienfelters syndrome.? human men can get this too.? think in humans the men are taller than usual, and can be infertile, but its not a definite thing - so guess its the same for puddy cats!!!!!! they have smaller man bits too i think. they are men, but a little bit girly i guess.... higher voices as well.
crazyness!!!!!!!!!!!
hope that made a little sense and no one got too bored!!!!
xx
oops - meant tortie, got carries away and they both start with t!!!!!!!!
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I think genetics are treally interesting but never have studied how the XX and XY thing works
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I know red (and cream) are referred to as sex linked colours, but I think all colour is on the X chromosome.? As red and black are the only true colours (everything else, inc white, being due to different genes causing dilution, coat pattern etc) you can only get both if you have 2 X chromosomes - thus male torties being XXY male which are almost always sterile, although I think it is possible for them to be fertile. Without the 2 X chromosomes males can only be black or red, but of course females can be black and red and thus tortie.
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i truley hated genetics when i was studying !!
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hehe, sorry lynn!!! well, what i wrote prob doesne class as genetics - i diluted it so much - but its the only way i understand!!!
i seem to have module after module on genetics. bit better than some of the other stuff i get though!!!!!!! specially when we chat about cats. made me instantly listen more!!!!!! then she went on to petunias or something.... the interest drifted again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Never studied genetics but does fascinate me. Daughter is studying as part of her higher biology course (she's off to do a degree in paediatric nursing next year)
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it interests me but our genetics lectures were alway in the morning usually after a heavy night before :rofl:
anyway i just developed brain block and any time the G word is mentioned the grey matter switches off.
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I love genetics but haven't studied it for ages (did biology at university but that was many years ago now!).? It's one of the reasons I want to breed cats.? Not terribly knowledgeable about cat traits and genetics though.
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Me neither Suzanne (which led to some interesting conversations when I was 'looking' for Nova!!!). There is a really good book on cats and genetics (one of my breeder friends recommended it to me). I really want to be much more knowledgeable in this area.
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crikey when a couple of the real knowledgable breeders kick of talking about it on my laperm yahoo club my eyes glaze over LOL..theres a couple who really really know there stuff, esp anthony who was the guy that first imported a laperm into the country..i'll tell you he's no backyard breeder thats for sure and he produces some fab kits. (wish i could share all the photos here but i dont like to incase they'd get annoyed)
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whats the book called linda ?
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This is the amazon link - fairly expensive though.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Genetics-Cat-Breeders-Veterinarians-Robinson/dp/0750640693/sr=1-2/qid=1163980853/ref=sr_1_2/026-5600793-1938808?ie=UTF8&s=books
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I find genetics really interesting, but could never do anything more than just read about it.
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Numerous people ask us to take in tabby cats quite often when the cat comes in it is tabby. So Obviously some solks are confused. A bit like me really.
Torties are almost always female. This is because the genes for color reside on the X chromosome, so for a cat to have multiple colors (i.e., black and orange), they must have two X chromosomes, therefore making them female. The few male torties are technically genetically defective and are sterile.
OI do have Brindley leg here is is now 14ish. one of his legs is brindle. But of course I would not know if he was sterile as I have all my cats 'done' at 6 months old.
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You do mean full torties don't you, not like half white and half tortie?
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Tortie and white is included I am sure
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Hmmm we had a tortie and white cat, he was a boy too. Maybe he wasn't a real one after all :eh:
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Have you a pic of him?
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Yes i do, but it's on my home PC (at work at the moment), As soon as i get home at about 6, i'll upload it ;D
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Thanks
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to my mind i do no think it matters if there is white on the cat or not, tortie is still classed as tortie and as been said very rare in boys with or without white,
will love to see the pics tho.
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doesnt the white bit make them calico cats?
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Sasa is a tortie/calico but I think calico is the amereican name for them.
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Could be Hannah, or maybe he wasn't a tortie at all and the vets got it wrong on his notes! (wouldn't be the first time they got something wrong :-[)
Or maybe he was actually a she :-:
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This is the amazon link - fairly expensive though.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Genetics-Cat-Breeders-Veterinarians-Robinson/dp/0750640693/sr=1-2/qid=1163980853/ref=sr_1_2/026-5600793-1938808?ie=UTF8&s=books
It's a really good book Linda I've got it.
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Genetics is an incredible subject. I did quite a bit in uni as part of my med biochem degree and it is truly fascinating. BUT it is extremely complicated and you need a really good lecturer to make sense of it sometimes!
I love the Robert Winston programmes about genetics cause he explains things really well.
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I have a female tortie and my vet says you never get a male tortie as the genetics that give them tortie colors also make them female
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Hmmm not sure why my reply isn't working.
Just trying to find a pic of him, hubby says he wont be a classed as a tortoiseshell as his dad was a tabby, so the vet should have put tabby on his notes instead.
Will find a pic for you though ;D
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Aha, worked that time
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Hannah, it does - although different people have different names. Still doens't affect the sex part though, as has been said before, for a male to have the extra colour, they normally have to have an extra gene. Here is the messybeast article that is very informative.
http://www.messybeast.com/mosaicism.htm
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ah ha i just recently found out about the tortie / calico thing !!
tortie is when hair has the colours mixed through ie back/ginger etc with or without white
calico is where there is patches/blocks of colour ie more like patchwork (the type i actually prefer)
i thought calico was the amierican name for tortie aswell till like i said the other week
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Oh well Sasa is definately a calico then, she is pretty just huffy ;D
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you cant say that without a pic gill !
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Lynn, my cat book actually describes calico as the American term for tortie and white!! To me, they are all just torties, whether they are normal, dark or dilute.
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thats what i originally thought but i was in a conversation with about half a dozen (good) breeders and was set straight.
i does kind of explain why there are the two different names since most of the other colourings are called the same IE tabby etc
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You wanna see Madam Sasa?
Ok then.............gosh first picture I have tried do on this site? ;D
[attachment deleted by admin]
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is she a headless madam sasa ?? :rofl:
My mother has the most gorgeous tortie (well calico then)
she looks very very similar to andreas on feline friends . Unfortunately her temprement isnt so pretty, infact she's a nasty so and so..if your lucky you might get to rub her head with a finger before she literally de limbs you !! :rofl:
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You looked tooooooooooooo quick, she has a head now :rofl:
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wow she grew'd that head quick :rofl:
she's lovely but gill..dont you ever feed the poor skinny madam :rofl: :rofl:
maybe she like seb and got anorexia :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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:innocent: Oh she is soooooooooooooooo upset at you :really: cos she is wearing her winter coat and she has thick long fur not like Sebastian at all :P
When she is outside she looks quite ummmmmmmmmmmm small ;D
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
seb actually lost abit more weight after the r/d so he looks just right now !
fras a puddin and i's given up !