Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat Health & Behaviour => Health & Behaviour General => Topic started by: CurlyCatz on November 08, 2007, 08:13:49 AM
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Please see copy and pasted email forwarded to my laperm group mails.
This is a message from Andrea Harvey (FAB lecturer at Bristol) and I would
be very grateful if you could pass it on to other breeder colleagues of yours
to ensure that this does not happen again. A really sad story.
Best wishes,
Sarah
Sarah M. A. Caney BVSc PhD DSAM(Feline) MRCVS
RCVS Specialist in Feline Medicine
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Dear all
I wanted to raise your awareness about a really sad case that I saw
recently and couldn't believe that this could happen. Essentially it was a
4 month old Birman kitten belonging to a reputable Birman breeder, that
ended up being euthanased as a result of severe nutritional secondary
hyperparathyroidism. The kitten was being fed a commercial diet. On
researching the diet it is essentially an all meat diet and contains
extremely low calcium: phosphorus ratio and yet is marketed as a complete
kitten diet.
It appears that more diets like this are arising and owners are loving the
look of them because they contain quality cuts of meat and are marketed as
being 'natural', 'holistic' and made of 'high-grade ingredients' with no
artificial flavorings or preservatives, but clearly are not balanced
complete diets!! These diets are apparently becoming popular with breeders
and are sold at lots of cat shows. This particular breeder had checked out
this diet before using it but had not checked the calcium/phos ratios and
assumed that was fine because it was a complete diet, but obviously it
seems we can not rely on what is written on the packet.
I have contacted the pet food manufacturers association about this and in
the first instance they are going to provide the company with the
regulations for them joining the PFMA and suggest they change the packaging
and marketing to say it is only a complimentary diet. If this is not
changed we can approach the food standards agency.
We are going to try and work with the PFMA to raise awareness of this and
see what else we can do, but also will put something on the FAB website and
journal. At the moment I just wanted to make sure that all the FEP were
aware of this and to spread this word around to breeders/clients/cat owners
The easiest thing to tell people is to check if a particular food
manufacturer is a member of the PFMA and if so then their food should be
OK, if not and it looks like a high meat diet the Ca:PO4 should be checked
I have now become obsessed with looking at cat food packets in supermarkets
and another thing that concerns me is that there are more and more
complimentary foods available, and the complementary and complete foods
even if correctly labelled are often not separated and labelled on the
shelf, and some companies are packaging some types of complete and
complementary in exactly the same type of packaging the only thing
distinguishing between them being the very small writing on the side.
Another campaign needed........
In the meantime I think we need to be aware that we could potentially start
seeing more of this problem sadly, and look out for people not feeding
proper diets!
Thanks
Andrea
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Andrea Harvey BVSc DSAM(Feline) DipECVIM-CA MRCVS
RCVS Specialist in Feline Medicine
European Veterinary Specialist in Internal Medicine
FAB Clinical Fellow in Feline Medicine
Division of Companion Animals
University of Bristol
Langford
Bristol
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Do we know which brand of food it is Lynn? We can't avoid it if we dont know.
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I know Desley but thats all i got i'm afraid, I shall of course forward any more info if i hear. I suspect it hasnt been named for legal reasons perhaps but the main thing is to check to see if the food brand is a member of that "PFMA" that is mentioned as apparently if it is then it should be ok so its a company that isnt registered with them that is the problem.
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What is the PFMA, and how would we know if they are members of it?
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Its the Pet Food Manufacturers Association.
I have been saying this for ages. I have a gut feeling it could be Hi-life as some of their foods are complementary. Not everyone reads small print and even then, some people might not know the difference between complete and complementary, bearing in mind the average pet owner just buys the food and feeds it without a thought.
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I was wondering about some of those type brands aswell Mark as the popularity has really taken off and i got the feeling from the email it was one of the just now "in" type of foods.
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I was going to say the same - of limited use without knowing which food! I wouldn't be surprised if it's applaws or similar, as those foods are sold at cat shows a lot (and not too widely available elsewhere). I can't remember whether they say on the can they are complete, but I think almo nature do (or did) and I emailed them to question it as they dont' have any added nutrients. They replied rather vaguely saying that it was complete (that the method of cooking preserved nutrients) but that they recommended their dry food be fed alongside it! I consider those foods to be complementary, regardless of what they say. I think the important thing is to bear in mind that many of these foods are fine but should not be fed exclusively. I feed a variety of different foods for that reason, making sure most are complete foods. All foods have a slightly different nutrient profile so it isn't always a good thing to feed only one brand, even if it is a complete food.
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mmm I wondered about applaws or almo as I often see them at shows and to our eyes they do look like good food. I have to say until I joined cat chat I had assumed that all food was complete and I'm sure I'm not alone.
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I don't think it is a complete cat food. It states in the label it is a completely natural product and the chickens are fed on a completely organic feed. No mention of a complete cat food
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I've just checked the cans I have in the cupboard and applaws says it is a complementary food but almo nature says it's a complete food. They are almost identical though (if not completely identical!). I treat almo nature as a complementary food.
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says it is a complementary food
No mention of that on mine. Mine is chicken and cheese.
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Just looked at the chicken breast too and no mention on that label either.
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OK this may help a little, i found the pfma website and they list all the members so obviously this dodgy labelled food cant be one of them.
http://www.pfma.org.uk/overall/about-us.htm
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But does that only cover UK produced foods? Almo nature is an italian brand.
Applaws definitely says it's a complementary food - it's in small print on the back.
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Having said that, the applaws I currently have in was bought from zooplus (I usually buy it from a local pet shop or cat shows) so maybe the labelling is different on cans sold in Germany? It is all in english.
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I think any brands wanting to be registered by what would appear to be a governing body (that pfma) would have to meet the standards of british labelling.
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It is all in english.
Mine is
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The said company have rung me, they would like to put a statement on here but and as I would not tell them which site I saw them mentioned, (I don't want to cause problems for Purrs), I suggested they send it to me and I will post it. They did say that new labels are now going on the tins and should be in the shops in about 8 weeks time.
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The company have phoned me again, and I have put on here what they have to say so they will leave it. Once again he assured me that labels have been changed and should be in the shops soon. Now the problem is many people don't read or understand the difference, but that obviously is not the companies fault.
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Oh well thats good that they have taken the matter seriously. Shame the little one died because of confusion, clearly the owner prob thought she was feeding the best not realising or had wrongly labelled tins.
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Shame the little one died because of confusion
We have to remember that we do not know which brand was involved.
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I've just checked the cans I have in the cupboard and applaws says it is a complementary food
My cans don't say that Susanne. The kitten Applaws I bought I bought because I was told it was a complete food and good for weaning kittens on! Going to email MPM later on and ask them for clarification of this.
Just wish we knew exactly what brand this was about!
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Going to email MPM later on and ask them for clarification of this
I confirm they have advised me verbally this morning that they are now putting complementary on the labels with it will take a while to reach the shops, which I am sure we understand the reasons for that.
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Going to email MPM later on and ask them for clarification of this
I confirm they have advised me verbally this morning that they are now putting complementary on the labels with it will take a while to reach the shops, which I am sure we understand the reasons for that.
Ok thanks Ela!
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Ok thanks Ela!
Of course that is only the manufacturer mentioned on here, we don't know which manufacturer supplied the food for the kitten.
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Will Whiskers kitten food be ok?
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The thing is - even if companies are members of the PFMA - it doesnt mean their foods are 'complete' - for instance Hi-Life (town and country foods on the PFMA list), as Mark pointed out, not all of their foods are complete. Just got to read the labels, which of course a lot of people wouldnt.
Will Whiskers kitten food be ok?
whiskas is manufactured by Mars - they are on the PFMA list - I'd reckon it was a complete food, but again you've always got to read the labels.
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Right so its just complamentry foods that are affected? All complete foods are ok?
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Right so its just complamentry foods that are affected? All complete foods are ok?
Complimentary foods havent been 'affected' by anything - the problem with them, is that they don't contain all the necessary nutrients required by cats, so they shouldnt be fed exclusively, they are perfectly fine to be fed alongside complete foods. Complete foods supply all the necessary nutrients.
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mine have almo nature or similar at weekends but they always have hills down as well so that's ok isn't it??
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Yes thats true gillian, its the brands registered with the pfma that have "proper" labelling so if it says complete then safe to assume they are not lying. They of course also have complimentary variations in there also but will be labelled as such.
CC masterfoods who i think to whiskas are listed on their 50 brands so i presume though, however i do have a bag of whiskas adult supposedly complete here for the big boys and i couldnt find a "pfma" label or mark anywhere on the bag :-:
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Yes I have box of go cat and it says complete, I thought these were complementry? :-:
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Yes I have box of go cat and it says complete, I thought these were complementry?
There you go, you learn something every day. ;D
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go cat used to be only complimentary but i noticed myself that they produced a complete variety a couple of years ago. I am not sure if you get both now as i just buy complete if i am buying at all.
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I also think MPM etc should have a bold warning ton the website stating clearly what complementary means. I won't feed any complementary food, except chicken & fish as a treat
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Have spoken to Applaws about this and they have reconfirmed that Applaws Kitten Food IS complete but adult varieties are complementary and should be fed alongside a complete diet.
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Wonder why their kitten food is complete, but not the adult food?
I have to say, when Lynn posted this this morning, i checked the only cat food i had nearby, whcih was HiLife Essentials - their complete range, and there is no PFMA thing on it, although they are on the website.
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I looked at ingredients/nutritional analysis of applaws and the kitten has extra ingredients in it such as liver and egg.
Is the Ca:PO4 ratio 2:1??
Kitten Applaws has 77.1mg Ca and 180.7mg PO4
Adult Applaws has 4.9mg Ca and 164mg PO4
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I looked at ingredients/nutritional analysis of applaws and the kitten has extra ingredients in it such as liver and egg.
Is the Ca:PO4 ratio 2:1??
Kitten Applaws has 77.1mg Ca and 180.7mg PO4
Adult Applaws has 4.9mg Ca and 164mg PO4
Ideal is Calcium:Phosphorus ratio of 1.1:1 - so that looks to me that even the kitten applaws doesnt have sufficient calcium to phos, but maths was never my strong point LOL!
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Me neither, i scraped through it at school. Im sure the mathmaticians will be along soon :rofl:
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"The most ideal Ca:P ratio in the cat's diet is 1.1:1, but cats can easily tolerate up to 2:1. Any more Calcium in the diet would cause an over-saturation in the body, and can result in Calcium deposits in soft tissue such as Oxalate stones- especially in the presence of Ascorbic acid (vitamin C)"
Taken from http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/bonesandcalcium.php
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Mine get complementary foods only for Christmas and birthdays. So they know it is a special day :Luv2:
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i havent read this thread before as i do not have kittens but after reading it i find the whole situation very confusing and wonder if someone can sumerise the situation on one post please.
it seems to me :Crazy: that an unknown type of kitten food has been fed to a kitten who has as a result died, apart from the percentage of ca to phos and that this unknown food is going to have its labelling changed but presumably will not get on the shelves untill the rest is sold, so there is no recall, i havent really understood anything else.
seems to me that there is a trade descriptions act violation here and department of trade should be advised.
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It seems that a lot of people have been feeding gourmet cat food to their cats on the assumption that it was a complete food as it was labeled kitten food. However the food in question is complementary (treat food) and does not provide a full nutritional balance. The particular brand, which remains nameless is also marketted heavily at cat shows so a lot of breeders are using it on the assumption it is a quality balanced diet. There is an organisation that registers pet food manufacturers and which has labelling standards for their members, a list of which are on their website.
Some foreign foods are not compliant with these standards so beware.
I guess the moral of the story is to read the labels before you feed it as a regular diet. And if in doubt, don't feed it regularly.
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It appears that the food in question was marketed as a complete food (not sure whether that means it said complete on the labelling or whether it was just not made clear it was a complementary food) when it is, in fact, a complementary food. Fine to feed alongside complete foods, but inadequate as the sole diet. My rule of thumb is to look at the ingredients on the back - if there are no added vitamins or minerals, the food is unlikely to be complete, regardless of what the packaging says. Processing tends to destroy a lot of nutrients which is why they are added back in to complete foods.
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Is there any update on this? I'd like to know which food the kitten was being fed.
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I dont think its Applaws but get the impression its along similar lines such as Almo Nature. I doubt anyone would be brave enough to name names incase they get their butt sued :scared:
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As its Gwyn who is ill I am sure if you pm ela she will tell you :hug:
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i dont think you need to worry about food at all gillian as you wont have exclusively fed one type of food.
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i dont think you need to worry about food at all gillian as you wont have exclusively fed one type of food.
It IS something else i've thought about though. She was having NM kitten food, applaws plus some complete biscuits and fresh raw such as turkey, beef and chicken, and fresh cooked, usually chicken. The breeder was already feeding her a mix of things and also included raw. NM is supposed to be complete is says so on the pack, hope its right.
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I obviously don't have any NM kitten food in, but the adult states that it's complete and does list added minerals and sugars in the ingredients, so I think you're safe with NM kitten. Mosi had that (with some complete dry) when he was little and he's grown up just fine.
My money is on almo nature kitten or the newish hi life one in a can (the one that's shredded meat in a gravy) - although I'm not sure that comes in kitten. Thinking about foods that are sold/pushed at cat shows.
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I've just spoken to the breeder whose kitten it was that died - her kitten was displaying the same symptoms of weakness in the back legs as Gwyn - could it possibly be something as simple as a nutritional deficiency that Gwyn has? After speaking to this breeder, I'm getting more and more convinced it could be - you prob think I'm clutching at straws, and maybe I am - but in the absence of other signs (apart from the eye lesions, obviously thats something not quite right) just the weakness in the legs - I desparately hope its something like this.
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It's hard to believe that it could be a nutritional deficiency when you have been feeding her a variety of foods. Did the breeder tell you what food was involved, Gillian? I know you can't say here, but if you could pm me I'd appreciate it.
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I know you can't say here, but if you could pm me I'd appreciate it.
Me too.
I think NM is complete as it lists ingredients the same way as felix does.
Cant the vet test for vitamin and mineral deficiencies? Worth aking about it to put your mind at rest :hug: :hug:
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It's hard to believe that it could be a nutritional deficiency when you have been feeding her a variety of foods. Did the breeder tell you what food was involved, Gillian? I know you can't say here, but if you could pm me I'd appreciate it.
I think it might be a possibility Susanne - I have been feeding a variety, BUT these past two weeks or so I've been feeding quite a lot of applaws, some NM and some complete biscuits, so I'm thinking I may have upset the balance and she was maybe having too much of the high phos/meat foods and not enough of the complete, which is especially crucial with a growing kitten isnt it?
I think NM is complete as it lists ingredients the same way as felix does.
Cant the vet test for vitamin and mineral deficiencies? Worth aking about it to put your mind at rest :hug: :hug:
They did a full blood profile which will show if calc and phos are way out of balance, so hoping I'll know today. I'll pm you both about the food.
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I suppose it would be good if it was the food because then you know what you're dealing with and have (hopefully) caught it early.
I think what's worrying about this is that there are so many of these complementary foods containing shredded chicken and no added nutrients around these days. They are marketed as being natural and healthy, and would be fine if it was just one or 2 brands, but there are so many now that I think there are probably a lot of owners who don't realise that complementary foods should only make up a small part of the diet and are over feeding these types of food, unaware of the potential problems.
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More Clear labeling should apply to all cat foods i always check but find it hard to find sometimes i have never noticed wiskas poches say complete are they ?
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Gillian can you pm me about the food as well if you have a spare minute please.
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More Clear labeling should apply to all cat foods i always check but find it hard to find sometimes i have never noticed wiskas poches say complete are they ?
Whiskas are complete. TBH, rom things I have read & heard, Whiskas is pretty good food (wet that is!)
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I always read the ingredients list to check for added vitamins and minerals. If there's nothing added then it's a complementary food, imo, regardless of what the label says.
Whiskas causes smelly poos and a lot of wind around here so is on the banned list ;D I'm pretty certain it's a complete food though. Most of the bog standard long standing brands such as whiskas and felix are complete foods. It's mainly the newer, high meat content, luxury foods that are more likely to be complementary (but not all - natures menu is complete, for example).
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One thing that worries me with supermarket food (all clapton will eat) is there is never any mention of added taurine which I know is destroyed in processing.
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Itl be in there Mark, if they wrote amino acids on the list most people wouldnt understand ;D
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luxury foods that are more likely to be complementary (but not all - natures menu is complete, for example).
Did we ever get a breakdown of NM's calc/phos ratios etc, because it doesnt say on the packs? - I know someone emailed them, but can't remember if they got a reply. I know it says complete, but I'd still like to know those ratios.
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I don't know the calcium phosphorus ratio but I did find out the phosphorus content of NM (1.5 - dry matter analysis).
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This is all sounding very technical - I just feed mine on Whiskas wet and dry
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This is all sounding very technical - I just feed mine on Whiskas wet and dry
Its a case of mislabeling which has led to the death of a kitten :(
If a food isnt complete it should say so in huge letters with a warning not to feed it as an only food.
Good luck with NM customer services, it took me 5 attempts to get an answer out of them about their food testing policy! :tired: :tired:
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HiLife do do kitten wet, I have to say i have never checked it (only one place round here sell it), but what is sold in teh supermarket is the same packaging as the complimentary adult, although I know they sell tins through their online supplier, just never looked at that either. HiLife is a tricky brand as they make both, but they were on the safe list. IT does tell you to feed a range of food, but doubt people would check that to be honest.
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I nearly panicked at the thought of this as I feed Hi-Life and have just bought a load of Applaws but I feed it as a complimentary food anyway (ie 1 pouch or tin alongside a bowl of kibble for variety) so my kittens are safe. Thank goodness for that - but, it is an important lesson isn't it - read the label! I confess I rarely do, so will certainly be doing so now!