Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat General => General Cat Chat => Topic started by: snarf on October 08, 2007, 19:46:53 PM
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sorry its so long!
9th of September I took on spare cat ( she was found on the side of a busy major road, by a friend some days before) with the intention of finding her owners.
Pic of spare cat attached (i hope)
I went back in the pet register to the beginning of august and found nothing, im still checking various registers but still nothing. I called all the vets that came up on vetuk for the area she was found, ive been though sams list of advice and I got an article in the paper for her. She’s a lovely, if demanding, lady. Affectionate and vocal at times. She was wearing a collar when found and had clipped fur from a possible spay.
Its looking unlikely that her owners are going to be found now and Its not fair on her to be in the spare room indefinitely.
If she got on with Lucifer there would be no problem with her staying as ive always intended to have at least 2- if Lucifer will allow it!
Lucifer seems fine about her, he chirps at her door and his body language seems good- tail up, ear forward, whiskers forward etc.
Spare cat, however, although she will tolerate him being vaguely about for about 10 mins, she reaches a point when shell chase him off- no growl or claws, the occasional small hiss.
That might improve in time I know but im worried that lucifers temperament will change- hes so loving and playful and confident. Spare cat is much stockier than him and looks like shes going to continue to grow, Lucifers not got bigger for months and seems to be destined to be a small cat. Im worried that shell always bully him because she knows she can. she doesnt look that big in the pic but she is!
At the moment, if there isn’t a door between them, Lucifer scarpers or completely caves.
I think hes just not as possessive as her. He doesn’t seem to bothered if he see me stroke her through the gap in the door, but she gets immediately aggressive if she sees me stroke Lucifer.
So basically can this improve? Or is this as good as it gets?
If I decide to call it a day with spare cat shell still have a home here till she’s rehomed. Ive had a few calls from people offering to take her after the newspaper article. If I contact the CP would they do homechecks?
Am I right in thinking that Lucifer would accept another cat, it just needs to be one that will accept him and be compatible?
any thoughts appreciated
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Hi, just wanted to say what a gorgeous cat she is. :Luv:
Unfortunately I am no expert in cat behaviour but it would be nice if she could stay with you although I understand your concerns.
Goodluck and let us know how things progress :)
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Oh, she's lovely. :) Hmmm....it can take time sometimes. What's her body language like with regards to Lucifer? Does she bristle?
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:Luv: :Luv: :Luv: No advice just wanted to say that she looks a beautiful cat, good luck with everything xx
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How old is Lucifer, and how old does the spare seems to be? If they are about the same age or the spare younger than Lucifer, I see a possibility of a happy family with right guidance. Give it a little more time to see if their relationships improve with a close supervision. she is a darling it would be a pity if you have to let her go...
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Spare cat is beautiful!! :Luv:
When we introduced Gerti into our house (with a Cheese already here) Cheese was hissy for a while but now they are friends - Cheese does dominate though!
Then when we introduced Doc, both Cheese and Gerti were a bit hissy at first (I was surprised Gerti hissed too as she is a calm motherly cat)
I think there will mostly always be a bit of hostility from the original cat (or both, or in this case, Spare cat) at first during introductions as they are a bit possessive with their territory and sharing their owners etc but ours settled after not long at all, I think you should try it and see before rehoming Ms Spare :)
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thank you!
Did cheese and gerties personalities change longterm? or has anyone noticed long term changes in behaviour? i think ive paniced myself abit reading cat confidential!
lucifer is between a year and 18 months. shes prob 6months to a year ish. so similar age. she is stockier tho. and lucifer is a small built softie. even playfighting with his snake he looks camp
lucifer seems to be fine about it all at the moment but i think he might be winding spare cat up, he sits outside her door chirupping and sticking his paws under!
spare cat doesnt bristle, she yawns at him and ignores him and occasionally joins in on the batting under or around the door- am i right to allow them to do this? they dont hiss and both body language is good from what ive read.
its just on the occassions theyve ignored each other through the gap in the door and the open door so long then when allowed, lucifer will cautiously enter her room and shell allow it up to a point before chasing him off. or shell chase him down the stairs. so we go back to gap in the door stage
theyve at points sat ignoring each other about a foot apart, and once stretched noses out to each other to about 6 inches apart which is good. its frustrating tho because when spare is being friendly lucifer spooks and scarpers, and when lucifers being friendly, spare decides he obviously gullible and tries to jumps on his head :-:
Spare is lovely, shes beautiful and very affectionate in a demanding way, id love to keep her but itll be on lucifers agreement :-[
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nope, once my cats get used to a newcomer they are generally back to normal in no time flat. Bob, who had not discovered laps until he moved in with me, stopped using laps and beds when Pavarotti arrived, but he was back into the swing of things in a couple of years. You have to be patient is all ...
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Not much help really but i have a 1 year old female and last week i got 2 11 week old female kittens to start of with there was lots of hissing and chasing of but as soon as kitty realised they were not taking over (i gave her more attention than i did the kittens) she excepted them she now washes and plays with them.
Hopefully you can keep her shes gorgeous :Luv:
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thank you!
Did cheese and gerties personalities change longterm? or has anyone noticed long term changes in behaviour? i think ive paniced myself abit reading cat confidential!
lucifer is between a year and 18 months. shes prob 6months to a year ish. so similar age. she is stockier tho. and lucifer is a small built softie. even playfighting with his snake he looks camp
lucifer seems to be fine about it all at the moment but i think he might be winding spare cat up, he sits outside her door chirupping and sticking his paws under!
spare cat doesnt bristle, she yawns at him and ignores him and occasionally joins in on the batting under or around the door- am i right to allow them to do this? they dont hiss and both body language is good from what ive read.
its just on the occassions theyve ignored each other through the gap in the door and the open door so long then when allowed, lucifer will cautiously enter her room and shell allow it up to a point before chasing him off. or shell chase him down the stairs. so we go back to gap in the door stage
theyve at points sat ignoring each other about a foot apart, and once stretched noses out to each other to about 6 inches apart which is good. its frustrating tho because when spare is being friendly lucifer spooks and scarpers, and when lucifers being friendly, spare decides he obviously gullible and tries to jumps on his head :-:
Spare is lovely, shes beautiful and very affectionate in a demanding way, id love to keep her but itll be on lucifers agreement :-[
Cheese has actually gotten more affectionate and her previous mood swings disappeared - she used to always turn on me with no warning and be lovely one minute and biting me on the nose the next (drawing blood :( ) then we got Gerti who was like a mum to her (think Gerti wanted to mother someone as she had not long been a mum of 2 :) ) after the initial weariness of Cheese - I used to find them curled up together tightly in a cat bed made for one (sooooooo cute!) and yesterday they were asleep infront of the fire in a ying and yang position with paws touching :Luv: Cheese never turns on me now either, she is a feisty cat but not aggressive and no mood swings ;D
I know such drastic change wont happen in most cats, but I just wanted to say that sometimes cats can change for the better when another is introduced. When we introduced Doc, Cheese and Gerti became less mother/daughter and now they have their funny little relationships (Gerti and Doc manipulate Cheese for food, Doc and Cheese can gang up on Gerti, Gerti washes Cheese, Cheese washes Gerti but gets offended when Doc washes her....... etc etc :rofl: )
I think the initial reaction doesnt really show how things will be - not in my opinion, although it is limited! I think it is worth a try though. I think the initial few days/weeks/maybe months can be spent with the cats getting used to their boundaries with each other, who is more assertive, who rules in terms of certain things and then you will know whether they will get on or not long term ;D
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Yawning is actually a really good sign when done by a cat in the presence of another cat. It's a "look at me, I'm not at all threatening" thing. She is probably feeling threatened by Lucifer. the batting under the door is also a good thing, they are trying to interact in a fairly playful fashion.
Integration can take weeks, months or sometimes days! It mainly depends on how confident the cats in question are - although, obviously there are some who just DON'T like sharing their people!
What is "spare cat" called? Or did you avoid naming her in an attempt not to get attached?
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I think if you are going to keeep spare cat then you need to do the introductions properly and asap.
Go to our links and find wizzs site and it expplains how do introduce two cats ;D
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I agree that it may just take some time. It's normal for the resident cat to either hiss or scarper when a new cat is introduced, depending on purrsonalities involved. It sounds like Spare cat may just be a more dominant and territorial cat than Lucifer, but they may sort things out among themselves given time. It may not work out, but how about you consider yourself as fostering Spare cat for a few months and then if things aren't better then you can look for another home for her. It's not fair on Lucifer to be made unhappy in his own home, but he may just need time to get used to her being around. And she may just need more time to feel less threatened in her new home.
Have you got some feliway? If not I recommend getting some of that. Rescue remedy might help Lucifer too - you can add a few drops of that to his water or dab some behind his ears. It is supposed to help calm cats.
I'm no expert on introducing cats to each other as Mosi and Jaffa is the only introduction I've had to do, but I would just continue letting them spend some time together when possible, and so long as Lucifer isn't too stressed, and see if things settle down. A month is a short time when it comes to cat introductions. Some will get on straight away, but often it can take months.
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I think it helps if you manage somehow to brush the spare cat and then use it on your little guy and same way around and may be with small bedding or towel so they can get used to each other smell before they meet face to face ;), but since they are both young cats i think if you are patient and give it time things works out, they might not become best of friends but they will learn to live and ignore each other OR they may become good friends and learn to share you :)
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http://wizz-catz.co.uk/
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Yawning is actually a really good sign when done by a cat in the presence of another cat. It's a "look at me, I'm not at all threatening" thing. She is probably feeling threatened by Lucifer. the batting under the door is also a good thing, they are trying to interact in a fairly playful fashion.
Integration can take weeks, months or sometimes days! It mainly depends on how confident the cats in question are - although, obviously there are some who just DON'T like sharing their people!
What is "spare cat" called? Or did you avoid naming her in an attempt not to get attached?
i read that yawning meant "im so not threatened or bothered by you, look how relaxed i am" ?
i do have names in mind for spare if she stays, i didnt want to get attached as i couldnt believe her owners wouldnt appear and im not sure how things will pan out
I think if you are going to keeep spare cat then you need to do the introductions properly and asap.
Go to our links and find wizzs site and it expplains how do introduce two cats ;D
sorry thats what ive been trying to follow, although apparently not that well :-[ the scent swapping etc was started from day one, cos i thought i might as well not ignore the metaphorical pink elephant in the spare room from lucifers point of view. so this has been going on for a month, which i know is early days. im just trying to work out whats best for spare as she has the offer of a single cat home (and infact 2 other muti cat homes) and she might not be the right cat for lucifer? can you tell me what im doing wrong, ive probably got confused!
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Sometimes keeping cats apart can actually do more harm than good.
I have never ever gone for the "keep them apart, use cages etc" method and I have 11 cats.
I PERSONALLY would let them mix, obviously when you are there to keep a close eye and see how it goes
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she's really gorgeous. lovely legs :)
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Right dont know what you have done so far but the theory is that you get the new cat happy in every room in the house, one by one and while the new cat is in and one room you let the resident cat have the rest of the house to raom and once the resident cat is happy going into the rooms/s where the new cat has been, then you are ready for them to meet for the first time............sounds that they have already met?
Meetings then should be under supervision and unless they are fairly happy and not fighting they should be separated again till the next meeting.
However some cats dont get on but others will tollerate rather than be friends and guess my birmans and Misa/Sasa are in this category.
As long as they are not attacking each other, a bit of hissing and a harmelss wop is OK, then They should be OK. You may find that spare cat becomes the dominent cat but the relationship needs to find its own footing. Also spare cat may not want to dominate when she feels she is equal in the house and not shut in one room.
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ok im not confused then, we did the scent swapping room thing, kept just doing that, no meeting until lucifer didnt react to the spots shed sat in/ scratched and vice versa- that the right point? he wasnt wopping under the door til 2 weeks ago or so- when hed got used to her smell. they then got to meet through a crack in the door, which got wider. they both try to pull the door open anyway when they were fine about that i opened the door completely- poised with pillow! and theyre happy with that but apparently only for a short period of time, so we go back to gap door again. :tired: theres no hissing while chasing or wopping- if theyre not hissing, is the chasing thing a play thing like the wopping? am i being overprotective and neurotic?
Also spare cat may not want to dominate when she feels she is equal in the house and not shut in one room.
hadnt thought of it like that, tis a good point.
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Sometimes keeping cats apart can actually do more harm than good.
I have never ever gone for the "keep them apart, use cages etc" method and I have 11 cats.
I PERSONALLY would let them mix, obviously when you are there to keep a close eye and see how it goes
I tend to agree. We had five cats up until February when we lost Parsley. they all came from separate homes and different backgrounds and I think the longest I kept any of them apart was a day. The oldest two I put together pretty much straight away (he was a kitten, she was around 5) and they're the closest out of my mob.
The yawning thing in general is a I'm not threatened/non threatening action as far as I know. (With cats. With people it just generally means I'm bloomin' tired, doesn't it?! ;) ) And yes, the chasing could well be playing too. "Spare cat" might just feel a bit uneven due to only havng one room as Susanne says.
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Yes that was the right point ;D
Maybe you are being over protective and it sounds like its a game. I would set them free in the house and see what happens, my birmans are brothers aged 14yrs and have lived and slept together all their lives and they do this, one hides and the other chases and pounces, then they charge up and down stairs like lunatic elephants. Always during the night :rofl:
If you find that they get nasty to each other then you will have to separate again and maybe think whether its a good idea but I think it sounds good and they will be OK ;D
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My cats have always been ok with a newbie after a couple of days, but them again I have only ever brought kittens home.
Maybe they will be ok once they get to meet properly. I would start letting her out of the room and see what happens, thats the only way your going to know.
Have you thought about names? Do you like Renie?
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If you are at home today i would go for it and let them mix.
there will prob be some hissing and even a couple of slaps but that is normal and in a way has to happen.
I do think "spare cat" has been shut away for long enough now -
Be brave and open that door !!!!!!!
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When i got my 2 kittens last week i probably done wrong with introducng them almost straight away but they were in the cat carrier and i put them on the floor in it and let kitty sniff them and then let them out for a couple of days there was a bit of hissing and patting on the head with paws but now there good mates already!
I think you should just go for it aslong as you keep an eye on them im sure itl go fine ;D
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Hi i'm in exactly the same position, i'm trying to introduce a new male cat aged 4 to a female aged 3 and male aged 5. I've been trying following wizz's advice for nearly 6 weeks now and i'm not getting anywhere. I'm wondering whether i will ever be able to keep Ralph.
He goes outside now but he just chases my two cats off, i don't know whether it's playing or he's being aggressive as my two manage to get away!! When they're together in the house Ralph chases them again, his tail goes all bushy and i usually intervene before Ralph gets to the other two. I've tried Feliway and not really noticed a difference unfortunately. I'm home this week so i'm trying to integrate them a bit better.
The thing that worries me the most is that Jet and Cleo have changed their behaviour they are more timid and wary all the time when in the house. Any advice is greatfully appreciated as i don't know what else to do!!
:thanks:
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I have to say I'm with you on this Michelle. When we first brought Smokey home, his stay was very short-lived due to the amount of critters on him and a nasty eye infection. I felt bad handing him back but we didn't have the house ready (CP let us take him straight away) and I didn't want Josh to get poorly/infested.
After two weeks, we'd had time to get ready for him, read up on all the indroduction stuff and speak to our vet (who I trust whole heartedly). It was only after speaking to the vet that it made sense. He said the cat is likely to be more distressed knowing there's someone else in his house but not being able to sort out hierachy. He said as long as you can supervise, introduce them straight away.
Of course it was hissy, it still is sometimes but Josh is the boss, no question (even if Smokey does jump on him on his way out of the litter tray).
I do believe our vet gave us sound advice as I have a secret foster also in the spare room. He was brought to me as the lady that found him didn't think he'd make it through the day. I nursed him back to some sort of strength and he's very happy but I don't think a pen at CP is the right place for him as he has many problems. Josh and Smokey both know he's there and it bothers them a bit. It's causing me quite a dilemma myself...
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When i got my 2 kittens last week i probably done wrong with introducng them almost straight away but they were in the cat carrier and i put them on the floor in it and let kitty sniff them and then let them out for a couple of days there was a bit of hissing and patting on the head with paws but now there good mates already!
I think you should just go for it aslong as you keep an eye on them im sure itl go fine ;D
thats excatly how i have always done it.
I am sorry but i really feel that too much "pussy footing about" is not the right way to do it.
Why keep the apart from weeks on end ?
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I can totally sympathise as I'm having the same problem introducing my dog to my kittens!!! >:(
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thats what i thought michelle i thought i would give them a chance straight away and see what happened! They hissed and gave each other the odd pat but that has been it! There all mates now already but i feel if i hadnt of done it straight away they may not of got on so well ;D
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I introduced Jaffa and Mosi almost straight away as I didn't really have room to keep them apart. I did shut Jaffa in the bedroom when I first brought Mosi home and played with Mosi in the lving room. But in the evening I decided to let them meet and see what happened. Jaffa's initial response was to hiss at Mosi and Mosi hissed back (which was hysterical as he was so small. I've never heard him hiss since). Then they just sniffed around each other with a bit of hissing from Jaffa and not much else. They both slept on the bed that night. Apart from a bit of hissing from Jaffa when Mosi approached him over the next few days, they were fine. They were fine for a couple of months and then things did deteriorate a lilttle, but I think Mosi's hormones had a lot to do with that! As he got bigger, Mosi tried to dominate Jaffa more (and failed - my gingerbread man doesn't stand for any nonsense) and things got a bit fraught at times (Jaffa sprayed once but it was in the heat of battle, so to speak) but never really bad. Jaffa has never showed signs of being stressed by Mosi's presence, he just gets fed up with Mosi jumping on top of him all the time (part play and part attempt at dominance). Jaffa just hisses at him if he doesn't want it. Or sits on him ;D
The point to this rambling is that sometimes you just have to let them go through the process and establish boundaries with each other.
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I have always let my kittens and cats mix as soon as they have been brought home, its funny to watch them getting to know each other.
I would take spare cat for a vet check before hand just to make sure she hasn't got anything Major. I took on a kitten that was not right, I think he may of had flu (?) 2 of my cats became very ill and 1 died within a week :(
(Not saying this will happen to your cats, I'm just cautious)
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Misa and Sasa had to travel next to each other for 25 miles to get here and I didnt know about CC and Wizz, who is a cat behaviourist and how you introduce cats. I think I was just lucky and they were both let out one by one and loved each other from the start.
When the birmans arrived I let them out and they headed straight for where Misa was hiding and we had a bust up straight away and I spoke to Wizz who siad they shouldnt have met before all the scaents were exchanged round the house, so I did that which took between 4-6 weeks and then I let birmans out.
The two pairs dont get on but they tollerate each other most of the time and its better than when they met the first time.
Sadly the birmans have taken over upstairs and if Misa goes up stairs he gets chased and if Ducha thinks Franta is in trouble he will attack either Misa or Sasa.....he goes for the neck and its not nice but only if he is thinking he is protecting his brother.
Ducha is my 3 legged cat and smaller than all the others and only a fraction of their weight but he is the defender and the fighter!
All cats are different and some need help to find each other before they are freinds and I think wizzs advice is good but not necessary for some cats.
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Hows it going ?
Did you go for it yesterday ?
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couldnt yesterday, had to be at work today and yesterday as im training people!- if i'd tried to book holiday i think my poor long suffering manager would have been tipped over the edge! i keep booking time at short notice for some cat related mini-drama
ive booked tomorrow morning off though- tis the best i can do for a few weeks.
i couldnt let them last night but spare cat keeps pinging the handle on the door while lucifer stands up to push it!! theyve not quite coordinated it perfectly yet :evillaugh: but i think theyll be meeting soon whether i like it or not! little monsters :rofl:
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Sounds to me that they want to be together and play and chase and have fun.......why cant you let them be together when you get home in the evening and also there is the weekend fast approaching.
I think you are right its a matter of time and they are going to meet anyway and it will be so much better if you are around to make sure they are OK.
They sound pretty desperate to be together to me ;D
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home in the evening and also there is the weekend fast approaching.
normally not a problem, one of my best friend is moving to liverpool this weekend, and my bros coming to visit at the weekend, but time booked off this morning and let them mix- much to their delight
but much chasing, much wopping, some fluffing on both sides a few hisses.
most of it was alright, but at one point spare was slowly advancing on lucifer, poor lucifer shrank back and sort of slid under the sofa. tbh she did look quite menacing and gave me the willies but she didnt actually go for him. he warbled alot- not a chirp, what does that mean?
i cant tell if that went well or not im so confused by it!?
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sounds to me like normal adult cat behaviour when confronted with a potential threat (on both their parts) and also that of two cats working out which of them is in charge. Sounds like newbie thinks she is and Lucifer is inclined to agree. Female cats tend to be more 'take charge' types than male neuters so that would be expected to some extent ...
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I think he was secretly enjoying it ;D She was just pushing to see how far she could go, just testing :rofl:
I think they will be fine and they maybe real friends very soon ;D
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so let them mix again tonight? for a while i mean? im guessing only while supervised until they calm down? i cant remember where, but a site said to let them mix for gradually longer periods- so theyve got some time out- is this a wise plan?
which of them is in charge. Sounds like newbie thinks she is and Lucifer is inclined to agree. ...
:rofl: that made me laugh, thats exactly how it feels here!
he follows her staring. i think if he wasnt doing that, she wouldnt wop him so much. but if she didnt wop him so much, he wouldnt stare at her constantly!! arghh i keep finding myself saying, "now now, play nicely- ahem! was that really neccessary?!" and so. they must think im :Crazy:
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Definately mix em again to night ;D
I know the feeling cos Franta stares at Misa and Sasa and I think he just wants to be friends and if he didnt also go meowwwwwwww at them it would be OK. He is deafish and older and feel so sorry for him but he is a little monster too :rofl:
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well, if you are seriously considering keeping her I would - the longer time they spend together the better chance of them getting on. And minimal intervention on your part is useful as it seems to confer status on the cat who is handled, and arouses jealousy in the other. Do they have access to each other under the door you use to separate them? This is always helpful too as it avoids eye contact ...
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theres a gap of about 3/4 inch under the door, enough for them to stick their paws through and catch each others paws, which they spend alot of time doing. i tried this morning to not interfere physically- should i not talk? it seems to break the tension but maybe just delays it?
theyve got plenty of hidy holes and high places and defendable corners if they need them
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talking is good. Hidey holes are good. Sounds like you are doing all the right things. If they are not tearing each other apart, and have escape opptions, I would be leaving them alone for short periods (say 10 minutes) but be within arms reach incase the dynamics change. Betcha if you poke a mirror round the corner they will be sniffing each other cautiously... :Luv:
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Yes definately talk to them , also have toys, get some interaction going between the 3 of you.
Put their food bowls side by side and see if they will eat together. Just try to get them to mingle while you watch ;D
Food is a great bringer together :shify: :shify:
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unfortunatly theyre little butter about food- lucifer is free fed because he only eats in little bits at a time and eats about 2/3s tin of cat food. spare cat would quite happily eat till she explodes and has frequently ended up with cat food on her head cos she can wait for me to spoon it into the bowl :Crazy:
buuuuutttt when shes out, shell sniff lucifer bowl but doesnt eat any.
if i give them both some ham or something nice is it likely to make them more possesive?
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sorry by the way for the millions of questons! and thank you for the help and advice!
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mine get very possessive about food treats. They will even growl at me!!
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I'd say keep life as normal as possible, you need lucifer to feel that you are the same and life is the same and you don't want Spare to think she's on to a winner with treats. Treats should be earned (even if that means sitting looking at you with that :innocent: face, always deserves rewards that one...)
Again, I'm no expert but that's what I'd do ;D
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Glad things seem to be going well. In regards to the isolation thing, it really does depend on the cat, I struggled with Shabba, as most of the cats he was introduced to, he was fine with apart from eating, he seemed to have issues eating in front of others, until Kizzy came along, and he was fine with her. I have never really separated my permanent cats, the last two were fosters, but due to circumstances, neither was isolated for long, so they are slightly different - neither of mine care about the cats in the spare room, which is a good job.
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spare cat is weird about food- she'll eat infront of lucifer in the spare room but not downstairs, but it could be a territory thing? or it could be that lucifers food has been exposed to air for more than 10 seconds!! :evillaugh:
they had abit of ham each at either end of the room after they been good furbabies and not attacked each other and it didnt make either angry.
I know the feeling cos Franta stares at Misa and Sasa and I think he just wants to be friends and if he didnt also go meowwwwwwww at them it would be OK. He is deafish and older and feel so sorry for him but he is a little monster too :rofl:
can u get socially inept cats? - i think they may be lucifers issue- last night spare cat chased him about 3ft, slowly, she looked to me like she was playing and she could easily have caught him but wasnt trying to, and out of nowhere lucifer rolls and hisses and goes for a wop across the face. so spare cat wopped back. :tired: arghh ill keep trying them and see if lucifer finally catches on
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yes you can get socially inept cats - or dogs for that matter. If they have not been accustomed to mixing with other cats since they left their litter, they will not necessarily have the necessary skills to deal with the situation and it does sound as if spare cat is doing her level best to be nice. I think the longer they can spend time together, the sooner it will be sorted, and with minimum intervention from humans :rofl: It just sets up tensions and accidentally rewards undesirable behaviours (by giving attention to that behaviour). Positive reinforcement of good behaviour and ignoring bad is the best approach unless bloodshed is threatened, in which case, of course, you would intervene.
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There are wops and WOPSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS :rofl: :rofl:
If you had seen the sad inefectual wops of Sasa and Misa when they first met, it was laughable.
Franta is socially inept , hasnt got a clue except with his brother...............its like he never learnt cat language!
I think they will be OK , just purrrrrrrrrrsevere ;D
Sounds like Lucifer thinks you will continue to defend her but this may be the start of a play fight, she sounds a typical sneakiefeline to me :rofl: :rofl:
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spare cat was trying to play with lucifers tail last night, he hissed at her (he was sitting 2 steps below her on the stairs) and she just ignores him and continues batting and lifting his tail :rofl:
ive tried not to intervene- i did once when spare launched herself at lucifer when he was lying inbetween my feet watching her and it was more or a knee jerk reaction (literally) other than that i talk at them and theyve had the bit of ham
Franta is socially inept , hasnt got a clue except with his brother...............its like he never learnt cat language!
yep, its how it feels with these two. i dont know how long lucifer (or spare) were with their littermates but lucifers always wrestled with me- clawless and harmlessly which i thought meant he'd been with them long enough to know that noone will want to play with you if you hurt them. the wops all seem fairly harmless- theyre not going for blood so theyll probably work it out someday.
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Think Spare cat just wants to play and Lucifer hasnt got the idea yet but she will ,or she will just ignore him eventually ;D
Sounds like they are getting on not too bad ;D
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sounds all very promising .
Have you tried feeding them next to each other ?
I have never feed the new cat away from the others.
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Question: what should i do about spare cat?
Answer: Give her a name :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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the wops all seem fairly harmless- theyre not going for blood so theyll probably work it out someday.
they are now :( lucifers got a scratch just below his eye and hes very unhappy. hes not at all himself and its taking him longer and longer to come out of his shell after spare cats gone back to the spare room. she also runs straight for him now when the door to the spare rooms opened.
i know its early days and they were getting better but my guts telling me this isnt the right thing for either of them. :(
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Oh I am so sorry and maybe your gut is right :hug:
So very sad and was hoping that they may just be harmless wops.
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The best thing is to get her onto waiting lists of local rescues, if they suddenly start to get on ok then you havent lost anything ;D
Sorry it hasnt worked out as hoped.
Have you given a name yet? I like Purdy...
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when she was in the paper i had a few calls from people offering to take her if she wasnt claimed, i was hoping i could get the CP to home check these maybe? does that sound reasonable? i wouldnt know what to look for.
If they arent suitable then i can foster her untill shes rehomed- dependant on what is advised. she has a lovely temperment with people- very confident and affectionate and demanding- her head rubs are like being hit by a train! and very bossy. i think shed be ok with some cats as well, just ones with- for want of a better word- balls! lucifer just gives in straight away. maybe with another cat that stood up to her abit shed live and let live. yesterday it became like she was determined to run him out of the house :(
she wont ever be turfed out though. and at least the spare rooms bigger and softer than a pen. she just might not get as much run time
My friend Jenny, that found her, named her Delilah but i mostly call her sweetpea, just as a silly nonsense affectionate nickname. madam for when she misbehaves. i tried not to name her so i didnt get too attached so my judgement wasnt clouded.
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Time to give her name and then I would go with Millys idea and try ringing CP and offer to foster her till she gets a home, then they will do the home check.
As Milly says if in the mean time anything changes with Lucifer and her, you can always tell Cp she now has a forever home ;D
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I think you'd have to sign her over to CP for them to homecheck people, as their resources are limited. Its the best way of finding a good home for her.
You could then send the people who responded to her advert to the CP and if they are suitable then they will get her.
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finally got through to the cp today (theyre only open 11-3 for calls at the shelter) the man there said that they woud have to take her in to rehome her but they have a waiting list of over 200 cats. he said hed advise me to home check myself and that basically id get a feel for it and if i felt id let them look after my cat then its ok. and to go through things like insurance, hol plans etc.
which all sort of assumes that i look after my cat correctly :shify:
im gonna try some of the independant rescues tomorrow to see if they can help.
if not whats the thoughts on this? can anyone give me some more black and white advice? or is there anyone in notts/derby that can homecheck and would be willing to help? its a big responsibility for little me :scared:
it would all be soooo much better if theyd just get on arghhhhhhhh >:(
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Hmmm not very helpful grrrrr.................I wish they would just get on too then problem would be solved..........sigh
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I don't do homechecks myself but I'd be happy to come with you. I don't think the CP man's too far wrong with the gut feeling thing.
PM me or email if you need me. Otherwise, cat's basket at 9pm in the Blue team please ;)
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well if you have left them together for a while ( ie a day) and they wont get on there is not much alternative altho it is rare that they wont get on eventually you have to get rid of spare cat, when i introduced my kittens to my cat kitty they did not like each other 1 bit to start off with but then kitty must have realised they were not a threat to her so they got along. the prob you have is that you have 2 dominant cats and they would have to work out amongst themselves who is topcat and you cant think of it on human terms and think spare cat should be thinking im on the other cats turf i must be submisive and respectfull to the other cat as a human going into someone elses house would be, if you cant think of it as two cats and not your baby and spare cat, then it would be best for you to find somewhere else for spare cat to go, but if you give spare cat to another home you have to be prepared to have her back as you cant just pass your problems onto other people, good luck
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ooooooooooooeeeeeeee
everyone be really really quiet!! :shoosh:
spare cat is asleep on the chair, and lucifers asleep on the back of the sofa in the same room!!! about 3foot apart!!! eeeeeeeeeeeepppp! :yesss:
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:cheer:
So is spare cat going to get a name? ;D
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Thats fantastic news :hug:
How are they getting on now then?
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:brick:
argghh well right now, theyve just woken up (silly me moved) and comenced the chasing round the house again :duel:
sigh. they are getting better... just not entirely all the time. they get a little fluffy when chasing but only a little- lucifer tail, spare gets a very cute mohican. they go down quickly tho.
spare cat seems to like lying under an ikea bag on the floor (and scooting about under it!! :rofl: ) and earlier lucifer was sitting behind her and occasionally batting her tail and when she poked her head out and glared at him he was looking at the ceiling- you could almost see him whistling and goin- what? me? nope. :evillaugh: had me crying was so funny
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Snarf - i'm havin the same trouble as you with Ralph and Cleo - they keep getting closer so i start thinking great they like each other. Then one of them will do something and they decide the war isn't over!!! I'm dreading having children if cats are so hostile to each other!!! :rofl:
Good luck Snarf
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Good luck with them, and sadly it isn't rare for cats to never get on, mine have lived together for over a year now and still have issues when they see each other (fortunatley through choice, one lives upstairs and one lives downstairs), you do get some cats that have to be an only cat, they wont tolerate others full stop
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thanks for the support!
Snarf - i'm havin the same trouble as you with Ralph and Cleo - they keep getting closer so i start thinking great they like each other. Then one of them will do something and they decide the war isn't over!!! I'm dreading having children if cats are so hostile to each other!!! :rofl:
Good luck Snarf
its enough to drive you crazy isnt it! at least with children you can reason with them and explain!
you do get some cats that have to be an only cat, they wont tolerate others full stop
i know, if it was like that it would be easier to make a decision on it, its just that lucifer has been fine with other cats, and spare cat wasnt fussed by the lady that found her cats. its more like somethings happened, that ive missed, and theyre still hung up on that. or that theyre just not speaking the same lingo
- just let spare out as ive got the day booked off and the first thing she did was go to headbutt lucifer. then lucifer follows her around trying to sniff her rear, but she wont let him (but shes not stopping him either :-: ) then they start wrestling- could be play as theyre not fluffy and not growling but it didnt look fun??
i think part of it is that neither can resist chasing the other if theyre not watching/move to quickly
So is spare cat going to get a name? ;D
is "spare" not a name? :evillaugh: erm i dont know, i had other names in mind before but im sort of used to spare cat and it still amuses me (simple minds and all that) shes usually called sweetpea or madam (or smelly) to her face tho but i dont really like those as forever names. she needs something suitably scary- shes a very scary lady. sweet but definitely she who must be obeyed, if you dont want to wake up with a horses head in your bed... :shify:
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well its all looking alot more promising, theres still wrestling and fighting but i think its play now- in that lucifer will keep rolling on his back after shes backed off, neither are fluffing while wrestling, no growls or hisses and theyll get up and both have their tails up. am i right in thinking thats all good? lucifers got his normal nature back while shes out which was my major concern!
so it looks like spare cat is staying!! :cheer: :cheer: which i can finally admit i am very happy about. :shy: i love her, not the same way as i love lucifer (shhhhh) but alot. still not sure on a name- ill give it abit untill i think of the right name for her, she deserves a special name thats just right.
so new questions for you, i have a food related problem which ive posted in health and behaviour-
http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php?topic=9285.0
and when is right for unsupervised mixing? is the first one best to be at night (so at least im there) or in the day (so theyre sleepy?) ideally id like to have time off, but i havent got enough hol left :(
and pics of the lovely spare cat
(edited to add link which i forgot, like a fool!)
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Lovely cats but which one is which? ;D
I think this sounds very good and normal :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow:
I reckon yes you should let em mix and dont think time of day matters as long as you are around somewhere and yes sounds like spare cat can stay, isnt that just great ;D ;D ;D
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spare cat is the black and white lady. Lucifer is the ginger and white male ( in the top pic you can just about see a ginger and white back leg i think)
at the moment theyre both allowed free roam from when i get up till i go to work and from about half hour after i get in till i go to bed if im in. wondering more about when to stop seperating them when im not in - maybe try short times and build up?
im glad it sounds good, theyve had me a nervous wreck over the last month and a half!
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Spare cat is a cutey, what lovely markings she has. Lucifer is lovely too :Luv2:
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Spare cat looks wonderfully cheeky ;D
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aww thank you, they are both beautiful :Luv:
spare cat is definitely cheeky... and assertive and insistent and proactive and haughty and naughty and tomboyish and playful and loud! shes very much a character
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You could call her Loki. It's the name of a Norse deity connected with fire and magic.
Loki is described on one website as "crafty and malicious, but also heroic"
Seems quite a scary character :naughty:
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Aww, glad to hear they are settling. When i am integrating fosters, I give them an hour or two in the evening for a couple of weeks, then overnight so if they create I can hear them (try and start this on a Fri night incase they are too noisy!!), then we have that for a couple of weeks, then a weekend of being out (again so I am around) all the time. One of my biggest probs is mine are allowed out, and long termers aren't for 6 weeks, hence such long intros, so I dont have too many issues with Tiger going out (have to leave the door open for her, she doesn't like it if I shut the door after she has gone out).
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You could call her Loki. It's the name of a Norse deity connected with fire and magic.
Loki is described on one website as "crafty and malicious, but also heroic"
Seems quite a scary character :naughty:
But Loki is meant to be a boy.
What about Kabibe, which means "little lady" or Pixie because she looks very michievous!
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But Loki is meant to be a boy.
...fair point... :evillaugh:
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How about Pele, the volcano goddess of Hawaii 'she who shapes the land - the goddess is a passionate goddess who inspires fear and respect' ...
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id been thinking of Kali before, apparently a hindu goddess of destruction and death (and rebirth) sometimes represented as a/the devil. but its not purrfect
im tempted by mania ( the personification of insanity)
or "boo"
but im also growing to like spare cat as a name as well (even if just to raise eyebrows at the vets) im a mean slave! :evillaugh:
they were getting on really well but last night lucifer decided he wanted to bite her- on the rump :-: so he kept following her and trying to pull her back end around to him until eventually she decided he needed a good slap and theyre fighting abit now- mostly just exchanging wops but occasionally lucifer lets out a weird strangled meow. neither of them has a mark on them though. i think its mainly lucifer being an annoying little sod. he'll tap her repeatedly (she ignores that) then all of a sudden he'll give her this mighty wack on her side. >:( but he sits outside her door meowing at me to open it in the morning and when i come in from work. :tired: i think itll be fine when he stops playing annoying little brother
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Have to say I have grown to like Spare Cat as a name ;D
I think it sounds they are getting on great and Lycifer is just being normal :rofl:
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id been thinking of Kali before, apparently a hindu goddess of destruction and death (and rebirth) sometimes represented as a/the devil. but its not purrfect
I was going to suggest Kali :wow: That was Lu's name until the vet told me that he was having gender identity issues :evillaugh: I think it's a very pretty name and would suit spare cat down to the ground. There's nothing to stop her having a middle name you know, Kali Spare *insert surname*
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I'd been thinking of Kali before, apparently a hindu goddess of destruction and death (and rebirth) sometimes represented as a/the devil.
I like the name Kali. :) One birthday I got back from being out to find a present had been posted through my window. It was from a friend of mine and was a statue of Kali. I asked him why he'd bought it me - he said "I just saw it and it made me think of you(!)" :evillaugh:
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id been thinking of Kali before, apparently a hindu goddess of destruction and death (and rebirth) sometimes represented as a/the devil. but its not purrfect
I was going to suggest Kali :wow: That was Lu's name until the vet told me that he was having gender identity issues :evillaugh: I think it's a very pretty name and would suit spare cat down to the ground. There's nothing to stop her having a middle name you know, Kali Spare *insert surname*
actually, Helen, it was then that i saw the name Kali and thought it would be the ideal accompaniment to lucifer, hope you dont mind me tea-leafing it. it does suit her but i think cos i didnt choose it for her, but before i met her i feel abit mean. like it not really hers. bizarrely i feel no guilt for refering to her as spare :evillaugh: - it promted one of my friends ( the one that has a cat named chlamydia) to say he wanted to name one of his future children "spare". then he decided it wasnt specific enough so "spare kidney", "spare heart" and "spare liver" are the destined names of his poor children. :rofl:
id like to point out that spare cat is in no way any sort of spare, well , cat. :evillaugh:
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id been thinking of Kali before, apparently a hindu goddess of destruction and death (and rebirth) sometimes represented as a/the devil.
Oh oh with a cat named Lucifer too :shify: Hey get some pics on of the gorgeous Lucifer and Miss spare too. ;D
I like the name Kyla
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Hey get some pics on of the gorgeous Lucifer and Miss spare too. ;D
oooo you twisted my arm! :evillaugh:
lucifer is the ginger and white, spare cat is the black and white lady (sorry its repeat pics from earlier down, shes quite hard to get pics of- when shes asleep shes curled up in a teeny ball, when shes awake shes running about like a loon!)
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actually, Helen, it was then that i saw the name Kali and thought it would be the ideal accompaniment to lucifer, hope you dont mind me tea-leafing it. it does suit her but i think cos i didnt choose it for her, but before i met her i feel abit mean. like it not really hers. bizarrely i feel no guilt for refering to her as spare :evillaugh: -
Not at all, I've been trying to convince people to call their cats/children Kali since I found out Martha was Arthur Kali was Lucas :evillaugh: I have fur-less baby names lined up for when I have a baby and that doesn't mean that the names I've chosen are any less special just because they don't exist yet, so you can cross that off your list as a reason not to call her it :evillaugh:
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Yes I know who is Lucifer, have you not read my comment in the gallery? lol
Oww they are loverly how old are they? Miss spare reminds me of someone :'(
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Yes I know who is Lucifer, have you not read my comment in the gallery? lol
Oww they are loverly how old are they? Miss spare reminds me of someone :'(
i thought you would but im never sure, minds not what it was! :evillaugh:
lucifer (just in case) is about a year, we first met 5th march this year and vet said he was 7months-1 year. they put 7months on his record though and hes not grown much since then.
Spare cat- im not sure, she had clipped fur on her side and a few suture scabs so likely spayed, but shes grown alot in the last 2 months, shes bigger and stockier than lucifer but for all i know they could be the same age. :Crazy:
Martha was Arthur Kali was Lucas
:rofl:
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I like the name Spare Cat :evillaugh:
Both Lucifer and spare cat are gorgeous :Luv2:
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i hate to say i am swinging more and more towards "spare cat" being her name. or maybe "Kali spare cat". then she can be both depending on my mood... she sort of answers to both of those (ive been trying them out this week)
Kali/spare cat also has her first whole night out of her room last night. there was abit of a flap when lucifer realised she wasnt going away and i was in bed but after that they were fine. shes alot louder than lucifer though so i didnt get alot of sleep- not vocally ( she wasnt trying to get food :evillaugh: ) its more that when lucifer jumps onto something, hes very graceful, he sort of glides seamlessly, whereas sparecat/ Kali sort of flings herself and hopes
so there was alot of crashing and banging all night :tired:
and i caught them both eating out of the same bowl earlier ;D thats pretty darn good!
so... im gonna take her for microshipping etc this week i think! :happy dance: :happy dance:
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Thats great its worked out ;D you'll need a name for her chip form tho....
You cant call her spare cat, can imagine the vets calling out can spare cat smith please come through :rofl: :rofl: :scared:
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Thats great its worked out ;D you'll need a name for her chip form tho....
You cant call her spare cat, can imagine the vets calling out can spare cat smith please come through :rofl: :rofl: :scared:
almost as good as when they call out lucifer ! :rofl:
is it just me that sees that as a major plus of the name spare cat??
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D'you know I was thinking about names I'd like to use one day. Does anyone watch The Mitchell and Webb look when it's on?I decided I liked the name "Sir Digby Chicken Caesar!"
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weird blast from the past , noticed a guest reading this :shify: which is a coincidence as i was meaning to start a thread on sparecat
Last night... woke up in the night to find spare cat (name stuck :rofl:) asleep curled up next to lucifer on the bed. thats only the 3rd time ive ever seen them asleep together and the first time without being on my lap with stroking and cudlling to reassure lucifer :wow: maybe they do it all the time and im just too asleep to notice!!
so everything worked out very well in the end ;) and sparecat is still beautiful and naughty and currently asleep on my lap :Luv2: