Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat General => General Cat Chat => Topic started by: Beanie on October 08, 2007, 18:08:39 PM
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Road death is the single biggest killer of cats in the UK. You should see the state the driver is often in, having "caused" the death of a cat.
They are the forgotten victim of a 'free' cat running in the road. Many drivers just don't care enough whilst animal loving drivers can be mentally affected by what they have done.If you are a cat lover, just take a minute to think how you would feel if you killed a cat?
Often the cat is not identifiable. No collar or microchip. If identified or thought to belong to somebody, the owners had to have the damaged cat taken from the vet's freezer to be identified by the owner, often with their children present.
These deaths happen mostly at night. That is beforeother predators or hooligans are considered. Cats hunt at night and that is when their normal senses disappear as the hunt becomes their sole intent. Quite apart from the devastation to wildlife they eat and ingest animals who have been subject to human posions - rat poison, slug pellets, etc.
Oh and if that is not enough, the firework season gets longer and longer and louder and louder.
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except when they refuse to come home like my lovely smidgen...
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Kitty is always in between 5 & 6 unless she refuses too then i really panick a few weekends ago she got stuck up a tree and noway could i get her down so me and my gf stayed up all night kept checking on her & as soon as it got light we went and rescued her.
As soon as she has been in for tea she doesnt go back out.
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I conciously don't leave them out overnight because of them getting into fights etc but they have occassionally,especially in the summer go through the flap at night but 90% of the time they are on the bed with us or up in the attic at night :Luv:
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Max goes out at night and pops back in a couple of times during the night for something to eat, or a wee sleep but as soon as bird song starts in the morning he's off again
he is a great mouser and and is the leader of the cat gang, most of the cats seem to tolerate each other round here and they know there boundries :rofl:
so it took me a long time to be comfortable with him being out after dark, although I still listen for him coming in 'cause then I know he is ok.
must add he's got loads of fields to roam around
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We get Archie in at night and lock the cat flap. My last cat the beautifu lBiggles was a free spirit and there was no way he could be kept in. It broke my heart when he died in a traffic accident.
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My lot are NEVER out all night.
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Mine are not locked in at night but never go far. They only go out the back. Willow rarely goes out at all and never at night. Clapton goes out for 10 minutes before bed and Kylie either sleeps on her garden chair or the bed, depending on how warm it is. They are just not roamers. I am careful they don't go out the front and lose my rag with anyone that leaves the front door open.
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Mine are free to go out in the safe fenced part of the garden at night via the cat flap, and quite often I'll look out there and one or two of them will be sat on a climbing frame just watching the world (and the bats :evillaugh: ) go by LOL! Harry, goes out at night, always has done, he can jump out of the safe fenced bit anyway, and he lets himself back in too, sometime during the early hours!
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Bertie and Bella are always in at night ... Minnie is still adjusting to having a proper home after seven years living outdoors so spends about three nights a week outdoors, in my nextdoor neighbour's plant pot! When I had a home check from CPL before adopting Bella, they said they had a policy of not placing cats with anyone who intended to put them out overnight ... not sure if that's the same for all CPL branches or just in my part of the world?
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Whilst we endeavour to get the Clan Cats indoor/outdoor mob all 22 of them in at night we have a couple of former ferals who like to be outside despite our parenting wishes!
We do leave the utility room window open and have beds on top of the boiler and tumble dryer and both can be found there for their breakfast the following morning
Still winter is good for us as they all like the warmth and it makes the roundup easier!
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Liz, probably best to leave a few out at night - with that many cats, the oxygen would run out pretty quickly if you were all tucked up inside together! :rofl: :rofl:
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I open the cat flap first thing in the morning after breakfast, then set it on 'in only' as I leave for work. With the nights drawing in now I don't let the boys out again when I get home, until the following morning.
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I have always allowed my cats to come and go as they please. I could never get Nigel in at night even towards the end he still liked to sit on the door mat guarding his territory and he lived until he was eighteen.
The only time I ever locked the cat flap was bonfire night and new years eve.
I had a cat who got run over in the day time and unfortunately my other cat was the biggest menace to birds and small creatures again often caught in the day light hours, so I feel the risk is there whatever the time of day it is.
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my 2 are mainly indoor cats but we allow them supervised visits outside at weekends during the day and, in the Summer - such as it was! - we usually let them out for a couple of hours after we got in from work i.e. until it got dark and/or too cold to have the door open.
I wouldn't feel happy if I didn't know where they are - even when they're out, I can usually see them as they don't go far, which I prefer and they're always popping back in to see us if they get spooked for any reason. They really are a couple of wussy pussies :evillaugh:
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Harry, goes out at night, always has done, he can jump out of the safe fenced bit anyway,
Mmm do you think it could be something to do with the name? My Harry can do this too. Maybe the great Houdini is within them :shify: lol.
I have a fear of everything you said there Pete, I dont think I could live with myself if I killed an animal, I would be a wreck!
I keep my cats in at night, well like I have said Harry is a right terror and gets out of the garden most nights I wait up for him but if its got to stupid o'clock and he is not back yes I will go to bed but this is not without worry, and I do have a young baby to get up for aswell :shy:
All of my 4 are in tonight, even Harry ;D I think little sir has realised to come home early or he will not get in :tired:
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Mine have the choice of going out, but generally only go out for about an hour before coming back in when it's colder weather. In summer, two of them tend to like going outside a lot more. The other two are indifferent any time of the day and seem to like coming out into the garden when I do.
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My cats are outdoor cats all the time, nothing is gonna change. Its right for my cats and thats it. I dont care what others do with their cats as all cats are different and so are the areas we live in.
We all must accept that we will not agree and do what we believe is right.
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Mine are all in at night....They can go out through the day in the back garden cos its cat proofed :)
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I lost three of my cats in RTA,many years ago , but they loved going out and they lived a short but happy life,so still if my cat wants to go out i put thier happiness before mine and i let them out, i strongly believe its better to be happy than have a long and sad life?? Also out of the three cat i lost two were hit by a car in day light,of course at night is dark and there are the chance that people had a drink and drive faster ,but careless drivers are on the road at all times :(. Had a neighbour who kept her cat indoor all her life and she used to sit behind the window and look at everything , and i always thought she looked sad because her choice of freedom was taken from her, and i have had rescue cats since which didnt like to go out ,they were too scared of outside, so i go with what they want :Luv:
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My three have 24/7 outdoor/indoor access and the most recent 2 were used to outdoor access when they came to us.
Over the years I have lost 2 cats to RTAs, both in daylight hours but, if it had happened at night time, my attitude is unlikely to have been different. We chose our current home with cats in mind so it is quiet although I acknowledge it isn't safe.
I want my cats to have the freedom to roam. I know 2 of them don't hunt (Tom 18 and Freddie has 2 teeth). Billy never brings anything home and I've not found anything in the garden so I'm hopeful he isn't a successful hunter either. Food also available 24/7 so maybe that's part of reason. I fully accept that many on here prefer to restrict access to outdoors but it's not for me or my cats.
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Mines are indoor cats, and are perfectly happy this way :)
I let them out for a run around my grans garden recently and the 2 of them shot back in after a dog barked in another garden :evillaugh:
I would be worrying constantly if they did go out regularly, so having them indoor works for us all :)
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Mine live indoors permanently. This is however because Josh's previous owner asked that this was the case (he was a divorce victim). Smokey has lived outside most of his life but part of our trial rehoming period was to establish that he would be happy indoors (I don't think it's fair to have one in one out).
Otherwise I'm kind of with Gill on this one. I think it's a personal thing between owner and cat and shouldn't become the subject of arguments/heated discussion. Cats weren't designed to be shut away inside, but they weren't built car-proof either. I have no qualms with anyone who keeps cats in or out as long as the cat is happy. The cat is the most important one to consider after all.
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The boys are indoor only at the moment, if they are ever allowed out they would definitely be kept in at night. It's just another risk in this all too risky world that I'm not prepared to take. All my previous cats have been indoor/outdoor, once they came in for their tea the catflap was locked and that was it until morning.
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I have a mix of indoor only - my choice they have human issues yup its half of the ferals in our life and the others have all the priviliges that we allow but we have worked long and hard and I can say hand on heart it does depend on the cat - we have Amber who isa former feral and we tamed her and her brother down and homed them on at 6 months to be indoor cats - they came back to us 18 months ago and we kept them as indoor only - Amber was so good that she became our indoor cat with outdoor access but she didn't put a paw through the door for 15 months even if they were open, then one sunny day 3 months ago she ventured out the conservatory door and discovered grass and barked flower beds and she is now indoor/outdoor at neary 5. She however still uses the litter tray in the house and comes in to do so!
Each to their own ours are happy and so are we and at the end of the day I have lost 2 to RTA's and the hardest thing was giving the others their freedom back but we did and I don't regret it
Rounding up 22 is enough at the moment for baby Sky!!!!!
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Otherwise I'm kind of with Gill on this one. I think it's a personal thing between owner and cat and shouldn't become the subject of arguments/heated discussion. Cats weren't designed to be shut away inside, but they weren't built car-proof either. I have no qualms with anyone who keeps cats in or out as long as the cat is happy. The cat is the most important one to consider after all.
Agree completely. :)
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I keep mine in at night but they are happy with that routine. My childhood cat spent 22 out of 24 hrs outside but we backed onto a paddock, overgrown hedges, stables and barns so he was pretty safe.
So as much as i think in at night is right some cats need different.
And yes i remember this last time round... :tired:
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Thats the thing - theres a myriad of combinations of cat, owner, environment etc. There can't be one correct answer for all.
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Mmm do you think it could be something to do with the name? My Harry can do this too. Maybe the great Houdini is within them :shify: lol.
Haha - Harry Houdinis - your Harry isnt Ginger too by any chance is he?
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CCs harry is a grey tabby
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...oh here we go.... :P
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CCs harry is a grey tabby
GREY, surely not? ;)
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My cats are out all day, come in for their tea then usually go out again, i do try and get them in around 9 ish though only because Jet likes to fight so around 3 am i am woken up by him by howling and fighting!! Ever since Jet was shot though i like to keep them in as i'm sure that was done in the evening time. I just don;t want to risk it. Cleo likes to be in bed by 11pm anyway, as soon as i turn the tv off she's up the stairs faster than i am and chooses which side of the bed she wants to sleep on!!
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I think to a large extent it depends on where you live. In Oz, where the wildlife is particularly vulnerable to predators, mine have always been indoor cats, at least since I realised the potential for conflict, and here in the UK I am in an unfriendly urban environment, so yes, they should be indoors in my situation. If I lived out in the country in England they would probably be outdoors. But I still feel better if they are inside at night, if only so I don't wake up face to face with their latest victim .. :sick:
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My two cats Siamese leo and Bella have access to 22 acres of woodland and park, but i ALWAYS do my darnest to get them in at night and there has only been a few occassions when Leo has stayed out all night with me worrying all night about him. He was found locked in a shed in the morning... Despite all this room cats do wander and they always go the wrong way!!.
I would like to think i give them access all day to do waht they want but in the evening then its cat flap closed. They seem to be okay about it.. But if Leo has an opportunity to have a last minute chasing rabbits then he will.
Both cats respond to their names.. Trying to find a cat in woodland is a feat in itself.
We also have Jesiri now and he will definately been indoors at night..
Roads are dangerous places at night for any wildlife and cats are particular at risk. its a sad fact that my niece being a emergency out of hours vet nurse usually sees more cases of RTA that end fatally then during the day. Mainly becasue not many members of hte public will go out their way to bring a cat in that they have hit at night. Sometimes travelling along way out of their way and may even be in the opposite direction, baring in mind that not all vets have an out of hours service on site...
During the day there is more chance of someone offering to help (or even realising) you have hit something..
Not nice!
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I'm 100% with Gill on this one! It all depends on your cats and where you live. Mine are in at night, but only because I heard that this year there are a lot of foxes. But I have to accept that from time to time one may not come in when called ... Sabby!!! >:( I open the cat flap when I leave for work in the morning, and put it on in-only as soon as I get home. Once they're all in (usually by 6.30pm) they have their tea, and that's it - they're in for the night. They all stay downstairs with me during the evening, and all pile upstairs with me when I go to bed!! :Luv: :Luv: :Luv:
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My current two are in at night (well, they dont go out much full stop), but Ginger often spent nights outside - he had lived on the streets for 3 years though, and closer to a busier road than I am, so I knew he was streetwise enough (although when I got the car and he liked to walk at the side of it when I was reversing I did wonder!!). He was never allowed to stay out without a good attempt at dragging him out from under a car though!!
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Thought I would add a sad story to this.
We've been trying to change my rescue furbabies habits, i'm sure I posted on here a while back that she was always insistent that she went out at night and had been doing this for months if she couldn't convince us by disturbing the the kids through the night she would dash out when someone was coming in or going out, we needed eyes in our backsides.
Anyway the last month or two she's been better at staying in at night, instead venturing out first thing and comign back at lunch time. Thursday morning last week I told her off when I got home from dropping the kids off as she was toying with a mouse right outside our front door, I know it's natural but my stomach was churning and I felt quite ill, she ended up running off with it no doubt to eat it :sick:.
She came home a little later looking quite happy with herself and was pleased that I let her in the house minus the mousey (no way was I letting her in with it).
Anyway a few catnaps later I had just got littlen to bed and hubby arrived home, I didn't realise until the next day that she had darted through his legs as he came in and ignored his calls for her to come back.
Anyway Friday morning I said to him, did you let her out this morning? He said no she went out last night, I looked out the back and called out the front, she was nowhere to be seen.
hubby said she'd be about, probably found another mouse, seem to be lots about now.
So I dismissed it - I shouldn't have.
Come Saturday monring still no sign of her, was beginning to really panic but had alreayd arranged to take kids out for the day, my dad was round when I got home and he'd not seen her either, so I trundled off down the road with middle son in tow and we called and called her, looked down a footpath that she doesn't normally go down but I felt I should check it???
We heard meowing ......
Then there she was coming out of the bushes I didn't know whether to scold her for nearly giving me a heartache worrying or scoop her up and cuddle her.
I didn't notice it at the time as I was just so pleased to see her but thinking back she didn't come trotting out of the bushes as she would normally.
As I scooped her up under my arm she meowed, I thought she was just saying oi I wasn't ready to go home but as I adjusted my grip on her to support her bum
she cried out hissed and tried to put teeth marks in my hand
VERY ODD she's normally so placid and soppy you can cradle her like a baby and she'll just let you get on with it.
Less than 50 yards from the house I was havign to part scruff and part carry her home.
She'd been hit by a car apparently and may have to lose her tail :(
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poor wee thing. Thank goodness you found her when you did
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Poor puss,it must have been a real shock for you :hug: Archie has had his tail amputated a few months ago and is absolutly fine. Hope apart from that everything is ok. :hug:
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Hi Furbabies,
I'm so sorry to read that. I went to a cattery yesterday where a new resident also has half a tail missing and is clearly in some pain. She was a stray and recently trapped. She is having a close medical examination early this week but is now in excellent hands.
Your story is precisely why I raised this subject in the first place. The replies, to date, are interesting in more ways than one.
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Since moving to this house 2 years ago we did let the cats have access to outside all the time. When we got Heidi and Huxley CP asked that we keep them in at night and explained why. I have fitted a Petporte now which is set to automatically lock the cats inside at dusk. So now they all stay in at night. I do let them out during the day. They have been inside now for over 4 weeks and seemed to be getting a bit frantic, spending lots of time sitting in windows looking out and rushing to doors every time they were opened. They are very happy since being let out and are very tired when they eventually come in for the night.
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Occasionally if She doen't want to come in.
I don't leave the boys out as boys will be boys, Thai is a good girl.
AND my back garden is cat proofed, so she is safe. I worry about the boys with them being Bengals.
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Thanks for your kind words.
Poor little girl is still in a great amount of pain but she's had her pain medication for today, she's as happy as I can make her upstairs in our en suite, laying under the radiator, she has all she needs up there and has access to our bedroom an should she need more peace as I know hubby after a night shift can snore, i've propped a wardrobe door open and she can get in there wander along to the end and use some objects i've put in as steps to lay on a box in there.
Everything in me yesterday wanted to scream at the vet 'can you not do anymore for her' as if you could see her it'd prob break your heart. She used her tray this morning and it's obviously uncomfortable for her to go to the toilet and to add insult to injury - she can't lift her tail out of the way.
I'm hoping that she will want to stay in most of the time now, however I also understand how hard it can be to stop a cat from getting out of the house if they're determined to.
Our little girl was a rescue cat whose owners had allowed her to roam, never took her to the vets for anything and when she came home and they discovered she was pregnant like bad parents they dumped her with kittens at a rescue centre.
She has always been very placid and settled in here wonderfully, we've never had any problems with her and she adores my children, especially littlen. She never roams too far unless she follows us to the park at the bottom of the road, but she will jsut lay and watch the kids play and then follow us home.
My gut feeling about what happened goes like this:
She's never really hunted much until recently and we've had rats and mice brought back regularly in the last 2 weeks and this is in the daytime.
When she got out I think she must have gone hunting, there are a few idiots who drive round here in the evening and at night time like they're on a race track and the combination of her focused on catching something and the idiots probably meant she got caught out by one of the cars.
Why she didn't come home I don't know as it's only a few yards up the road and she could have sheltered in bushes til she saw us. But I think it happened on the Thursday night or she'd have been home Friday morning.
It's great if your cat doesn't want to go out if thats the case please don't force them as this sort of thing does happen, if you can get them in or try and change they're habits if they regularly go out at night particularly if you live on a busy estate or near a main road.
It's so upsetting to see her in this state as she's a real treasure.
I think cat lovers are few and far between nowadays. In this village lots of cats have been shot at out near the fields, and had dogs set on them. I really don't know whats wrong with people who would intentionally go out and hurt any animal.
It's bad enough when its an accident
Look after your furbabies as best you can
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Can you start a new thread for her furbabies so we can talk about her?
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Bump
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Bilbo sleeps outside at night but he's in a locked cat run so he's not roaming the streets or anything.
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i only let one of my cats out occassionally because shes used to the outside and its only if she really reallywants to go out she stays in close distance shes not like my other cats that will wonder around
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Mine are out during the day but they come in for the night.
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sorry i meant to say i only let one of mine out at night i let all of them out during the day
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I'm still debating whether to let mine go outside. If I do they'll never be left out overnight though, my nerves wouldn't stand it.
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:yayyy: I have now since this thread started but not because of it, have managed to keep Max in at night, he's allowed out from 7.30am until 10.00pm, he is in and out in between times for eats and a wonder round the house, and a cat nap so can I change my vote :rofl: think the cold weather helped though :tired:
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are cats nocturnal?????
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Dont think domestic felines would be classed as nocturnal in the true sense of the word but they "can" certainly be more active and instinctive at night time (or early morning/sunrise time)
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Dont think domestic felines would be classed as nocturnal in the true sense of the word but they "can" certainly be more active and instinctive at night time (or early morning/sunrise time)
instinctive I thought destructive was the word :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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are cats nocturnal?????
Nope! - cats are crespuscular - active at dawn and dusk
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You said it better than i was going to Gillian, i have never heard of that word!
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crespuscular
Is that the same as Crepuscular?
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Is that the same as Crepuscular?
Could be Ela LOL! :doh:
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What ever it fits my cats :rofl: :rofl:, well not the dusk bit cos they prefer night :evillaugh: :evillaugh:
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I've tried telling Mosi he's supposed to be crepuscular and that 4am is not dawn right now, but he's not having any of it :shify: He says he'll be active when he wants to be.
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Thanks to those who voted.
A very interesting thread in more ways than one. Tells me a lot.
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After going through the trauma of carrying my 40 kg dead greyhound up a flight of stairs with blood pouring out everywhere and a totally ripped apart smashed up body then spending a whole night trying to clean pints of blood off him because of unfortunate series of events I know I'm just not strong enough to go through that again with any of my animals, cat or dog. Therefore even if i move to a more suitable area where it might be deemed reasonably safe to let my cats out I just couldnt bring myself to so they will always have a run for outdoor access and indoors. (i have such a fear i probably wouldnt be able personally to summon enough trust for catproofed garden)
Oh i know one of my boys would far rather have free range access but he isnt desperately unhappy providing he has his run to go to and for me having him alive and safe here living like that i can cope with but i personally cant handle the fear of the unknown or mental pictures i have in my head of how he may end up even though it may be said that having his free range access would give him his ultimate happiness.
I guess i've made a trade off - a tiny little bit of his ultimate happiness for his safety.
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I'm so sorry to read that Lynn but you obviously know exactly what my concern is as we share the same love of animals. Having said that I would be lying if I said that I fully understood how that must have been for you as . thank God, I have not personally experienced it with any of mine.
To date my experience has been of other people's animals - some of whom I knew well. That was hard enough especially with loved cats scraped from the road and seeing children's weeping eyes. The simple fact is that so much of this can be avoided. It is not attaching blame but asking people to think laterally rather than the I'll do what I like beacuse it is MY catattitude which is all about them and not the animal. Doubtless some of the cynics wil say that children soon get over it but that is simply not the point. What is it teaching them in a disposbale society? Lose an animal; get another and so on. Just like plastic razors, etc.
I went to the FAB AGM in Basingstoke on 3rd November. On my way home under the aerial bombardment of fireworks, there was a black cat lying dead on the road. It is an extremely busy and fast road and was too dangerous to stop completely which upset me. I slowed down as best I could with cars speeding past It was claer that he had recently been knocked down. He didn't have a collar and was probably petrified in what sounded like an army mortar attack. Another animal allowed to roam or carelessness allowing him out at night? Who knows but another RTA statistic.
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Said incident was entirely my fault Pete, I was off work ill with flu and needed to nip up to chemist for more supplys. My dog never got off the lead until we were in an enclosed area but this day (10th february) i stupidly did not attach his lead between the car park and my flat entrance (private car park) Unfortunately a rabbit appeared and darted round the back of the building which was open grass lands , we were practically at the flat outer door but jake saw the creature and took off, within a minute he had ran full pelt & probably covered half a mile nearly, lept over 4-5 ft fences and got himself up onto the road after the rabbit, it couldnt escape because there was alot of snow and the burrows were blocked, A woman who should have still been doing 30mph as it was just inside that zone near the town exit was probably accelerating up to national speed limit when jake bounded onto the road...It had been quick and instant but it doesnt provide me with any peace, Of all the horrific sights ive seen my own dogs body was the worst injured :(
That is maybe not entirely to do with cats getting out and at that time I only had fraser who didnt get out as we were in a flat but whenever i imagine something like that happening to my cats i picture them with the same injurys jake had and its terrifying.
Incidentally as i drove home tonight from my lads tae kwon do lesson in the dark i spotted a flash of black run out not far in front of me (and closer to the on coming car in other direction) It luckily lept clear of the road up onto a verge but i did wonder at the time how many more road crossings in the dark it will survive :(
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A credit to you for admitting it, so many people would have insisted it was not their fault. Although very sad it is a timely reminder to people who insist they always take precautions so their cats/dogs life would not be in danger if they do certain things e.g take a cat out on a lead or harness, that even people who are extremely careful and have the intelligence to know what is safe, can and do make mistakes, in this case to being unwell.
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After going through the trauma of carrying my 40 kg dead greyhound up a flight of stairs with blood pouring out everywhere and a totally ripped apart smashed up body then spending a whole night trying to clean pints of blood off him because of unfortunate series of events I know I'm just not strong enough to go through that again with any of my animals, cat or dog. Therefore even if i move to a more suitable area where it might be deemed reasonably safe to let my cats out I just couldnt bring myself to so they will always have a run for outdoor access and indoors. (i have such a fear i probably wouldnt be able personally to summon enough trust for catproofed garden)
I can't imagine how horrible that must have been :(
I'm pretty much the same as you Lynn - even if I lived somewhere safer for cats I don't think I would let them have free outdoor access. Not now that I've got used to having indoor cats. Selfish maybe, but I don't think I could live with the fear of them getting hurt and with not knowing where they were. I'd go for the run/cat proof garden instead if possible.
(As a disclailmer - I'm not criticising anyone who does let their cats go outside! Just saying what I do and why).
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Ela wrote
credit to you for admitting it, so many people would have insisted it was not their fault
That is so true. We live in a world where we all have human flaws and, as humans, we all make mistakes. The sad thing is that we live in a society that looks to blame others and basks in self denial. People in rescue see and hear it all the time. I work on the simple basis that if you can't be honest with yourself, you cannot be honest with anyone. It is only when you are honest with yourself and learn positives and negatives from your experiences that you can move on.
Lynn, whilst extremely sad at reading your story, I admire you greatly for coming on an open board and saying it as you saw it. If my words come over as clumsy or patronising that couldn't be further from the truth as my intention is quite the opposite.
It's strange I don't fear making mistakes in my everyday life in issues that affect my family, friends or work but I do fear making mistakes in looking after our animals.
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After going through the trauma of carrying my 40 kg dead greyhound up a flight of stairs with blood pouring out everywhere and a totally ripped apart smashed up body then spending a whole night trying to clean pints of blood off him because of unfortunate series of events I know I'm just not strong enough to go through that again with any of my animals, cat or dog.
:hug: Hell Lynn, that'd break me. I've had to do it with a person, but to do it with one of my boys ... I can't think about it.
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If my words come over as clumsy or patronising that couldn't be further from the truth as my intention is quite the opposite.
Dont worry, they havent :)