Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat Health & Behaviour => Health & Behaviour General => Topic started by: Rosella moggy on July 14, 2007, 14:41:41 PM
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Tom ate OK last night but didn't give OH his usual wake up call at 6am and, although showed interest in food at 8am, didn't want to eat when he got to plate. More worryingly he has started to wobble, sort of weaving like a drunk when he walks. He is on Metacam for cats for his arthritis in back legs (2 drops yesterday and due 2 drops tomorrow maybe). The arthritis makes him walk with a stiff gait when it's playing up not weaving like this.
Anyway brought him to vet first thing (I swear she looked about 12, boy am I getting old!). She gave him thorough check (ears, eyes, teeth, tummy, back legs) but apart from confirming that he is weaving when he walks, she could find nothing wrong. She suggested that he go in for blood tests if still a problem on Monday. Thankfully he did eat a little when we got back from vets. Any ideas anyone?
Did wonder if it might be same problem as HippyKitty's Polly (e.g. virus doing the rounds?) as Hippy lives only a few miles away. Billy has been subdued for a few days but eating, Freddie was also sick this am (pretty unusual for him) and next doors doggie William was throwing up all day yesterday so wondered if someone might have put poison down.
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It might be worth having his blood pressure checked. Its a long shot but Mogs was wobbly but I never really noticed until her back legs gave way completely and it turned out she had really high blood pressure and (as the vet put it) it was making her 'woozy'
I hope hes ok soon
love
Tab
edited to add Mogs is fine now just has daily tablets
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Hope not the poison thing :scared:
Get better soon Tom.......hope nothing too serious ;)
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Hope Tom is feeling better soon, it can only be a positive thing that the vet couldn't find anything obviously wrong :hug:
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Thanks All
Cheers Tab I'll mention that again when we go back but vet this am said that, looking a blood vessels in back of eye, she thought blood pressure unlikely to be the problem but couldn't rule out. Happily (very much touching wood) Tom has eaten some more food and is far less wobbly than this morning which is all so odd but very welcome. Obviously going to keep an eye on our little man.
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sounds like a silly question rosella but is he wobbly/weaving on all his legs or just the hind ones ?
As he already has arthritis i was wondering if he could also have something like spondylosis.
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Vet asked that as well and I said (not really thinking it thru) all 4 legs. Difficult to say tho but thinking about it might just be back legs. How does spondylosis manifest itself Lynn? Does it come and go as he did seem so much better this afternoon and has eaten quite well this afternoon.
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I bin googling as you'd expect and look what I found Lynn!
http://www.catchat.org/discus/messages/18/45138.html?1156318563
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Vet also mentioned she detected a slight heart murmur in Tom but, googling, this seems to be quite common in older cats so, unless anyone thinks otherwise, I'm gonna try and chill on that one for the weekend at least.
I'm not going to give Tom his Metacam tomorrow and think I'll go ahead with blood tests next week. If it is spondylitis, general consensus seems to be that continuous use of Metacam is not a good idea as it doesn't work well after a while if used continuously. Having said that, altho Tom has been on Metacam since last November, due to my worries about side effects on kidneys, I have been VERY sparing with it's use. Blood tests should also be able to tell me if there have been any side effects on Toms kidneys so far.
I suppose you gotta expect probs at 17 1/2 but his wobbling and lost of appetite really upset me this am.
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bit odd that your other cat and the dog next door also threw up !.. :sick:
Neither of mine have been sick for over a year .It might be an idea to check both gardens for anything that might have caused this. It might be something the dog has dragged out of the rubbish bags next door ? or weed killer ? slug pellets ? just a few ideas ;) hope he's better real soon.
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Yes I know Nick. It is odd but Tom never threw up (or not that I know of) which tbh is unusual for him as he has been a regular vomit machine since he were a wee lad. He did however do a bit of a runny number 2 in cat tray in bedroom at about 5am :sick: (he always does number 2s outside) but I think he was too wobbly to make it downstairs.
Tom doesn't go into neighbours garden to which dog also has access but OH did do a reckie of the garages at back of house for anything looking like could cause poisoning but found nothing. Don't know if giddiness could be caused by poisoning anyway???? It is a worry though that this can have come on so quickly without knowing the cause. Just went upstairs to check on him and he is still a bit wobbly but managed to get downstairs OK and is eating again for third time today and keeping it down which is fab.
I see that I have changed spondylosis into sponylitis in earlier posts. Perhaps I've invented a new illness lol.
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Giddiness perhaps not, but wobbliness is a common sign of poisoning........
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Oh dear :(
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I do hope Tom is Ok Rosella and maybe improving tonight :hug: :hug:
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Rosella, Polly is much better now. My vet thinks she has vestibular disease, which is a balance problem. Some cats vomit with this (P did at first) because they feel so giddy. May be a good idea to take Tom to my vet, as he's very good. If there had been something doing the rounds, he would have said so. He put Polly on antibiotics and prednisolone (though Polly's now withdrawing from these, as the vet was concerned about the effects on her other organs, considering her age).
If you think it would help, ask to see Mr Bate at the Oaks Vet Centre on Watford Road (on the way to Cotteridge).
Is Tom circling at all? P did this in the first 24 hours, and it was really distressing. She's now walking properly (almost) and eating for an army of cats. For the first few days, she wouldn't put her head down to the dish. Raising her dish didn't help. I had to hand feed her pieces of meat. I think this was because putting her head down made her giddy.
Will PM you my email address. (If I can work out how to PM!)
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Got your PM. Many thanks. Delighted that Polly so much better now. Poor baby though having to cope with balance problem. Bloomin VetsNOW. Doesn't bear thinking about.
Afraid Tom back to as wobbly as he was yesterday morning but thankfully he is eating although haven't seen him drink so think will lock him away today to ensure he doesn't eat any dry food. He woke OH as usual this morning at 4am for food (you were up in the wee hours I see too). It does seem to be his hind quarters that are very weak making him stagger. Difficult for him to turn around without big wobble so he does it slowly. Hes not circling. He staggers to left as much as to the right. He doesn't appear to be in any discomfort apart from uneasy at wobbliness so I'm not sure this can be spondylosis as that is painful?. He gets downstairs without too much difficulty but very slow going up. I'm not going to give him his metacam today as this can mask things coz it's such a good painkiller altho I feel a bit wicked.
I will google vestibular disease to see if symptoms link up.
I also locked everyone in last night to keep an eye on things; bedlam of course as Billy and Freddie kept me awake most of night with their antics. Had to "sleep" in spare room so Tommie and OH wouldn't be disturbed. Anyway Freddie threw up a little again this morning but otherwise the other two are very well.
I will ring our vet first thing tomorrow and see if I can get an appointment with our Mr Watts who I have a lot of faith in but will certainly bear Mr Bate in mind. I think of you and Polly each time I drive to Cotteridge. Whilst the vet I saw yesterday was very young, she seemed very thorough but no substitute for experience in situations like this.
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Whilst the vet I saw yesterday was very young, she seemed very thorough but no substitute for experience in situations like this.
To be fair I must say that sometimes the young vets are excellent as they have the latest ideas, I know a few years ago it was a young vet who came up with the latest technology that saved one of my cats. My vet who is wonderful and can usually tell what is wrong by almost looking at a pet but he did not know about the latest treatment for the condition. Can't remember what it was now.
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I agree Ela but in Tom's case, the young vet I saw yesterday was stumped so I'm hoping experience will help tomorrow
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I agree Ela but in Tom's case, the young vet I saw yesterday was stumped so I'm hoping experience will help tomorrow
In reality the old and the new compliment each other.
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Have you ruled out an ear infection?
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Just caught up with this and hope you can get to the bottom of it very quickly.
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In reality the old and the new compliment each other.
Yes of course and nice to know I'm still of some use then lol
Have you ruled out an ear infection?
Nothing ruled out Pinkbear but vet could not find any indication of ear infection altho she had a very good look in Tom's ears and would have put him on antibiotics I guess if she thought that were a possibility. She just sent me away with a tin of recovery food to tempt Tom to eat but he started eating his usual food again when he got home and is still eating thank god. The fact that he is back to eating OK leads me to think not a balance problem but what do I know. Haven't seen him drinking but am watering down his Hi Life Turkey & Giblets pate to give him more fluids. If he shakes himself for any reason or turns his head to look behind him, he falls over. That's how unsteady he is.
Think I'll try and video him on my camera to show the vet tomorrow as you know how difficult it can be to get them to perform for the vet.
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Good luck with him, and I hope it is nothing too serious.
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Hope Tom gets better soon :hug:
As long as he's eating and drinking I wouldn't worry too much until you go see the vet tomorrow :hug:
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Roz is it possible he may have fallen or been struck by anything ? your latest discription does sound more like a physical problem than a viral or poisening one. Wondering if he has injured his tail or spine anywhere ? Have you checked along his back to see if there is any cut or bruising ? or he is a bit tender. Glad he is going to the Vet tomorrow It will put your mind at rest a bit to have him checked over. Hope he's a lot better soon
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Hope he's still abit better Rosella.
Hippy in dogs esp but cats also "strokes" are commonly misdiagnosed when in fact vest disease is a far more common and likely cause, Fortunately they do tend to improve abit and can respond to treatment, unfortunately some animals can be pts on the "stroke" diagnosis when it wasnt that at all (in all probability) .
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lynn, the VetsNow vet I saw in the first instance diagnosed a stroke and advised pts. Luckily I didn't listen to him, but took Polly to my own vet the following day. He went through the possibilities with me, putting vestibular disease at the top. He could see a plug of wax in one of P's ears, and thought this may indicate infection (though he also said that the ear could be healthy behind the plug). She's being treated with Synulox and prednisolone, and is almost back to her normal self.
So much for VetsNow!
Tom's symptoms sound almost identical to Polly's. Her hind legs are still a bit weak. My vet said that she splays her legs when walking to compensate for her loss of balance. She's stopped doing this, but can't walk downstairs, though she's fine going up.
We're seeing Mr Vet again tomorrow. I'm hoping for good news.
Rosella, I'm thinking of you and Tom. I hope your vet makes Tom better. :hug:
Will put up some links when find them.
http://www.cathealth.com/vestibular.htm
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_vestibular_disease.html
http://neuro.vetmed.ufl.edu/neuro/vestibular/vestib.htm
Loads more where these came from. I bookmarked masses of them when doing research for Polly.
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Ear problems cannot always be seen, even on MRI scan and in humans various tests would be done....like walking a line foot to toe. standing with eyes closed and arms straight out infront of you etc or a full balance test, none which can be done on cats.
It can be caused by a virus or an infection but usually an infection would have some secondary symptoms, especially pain. A virus may only suspected because of the balance problem but their can be different causes and effects, so with a cat its very much a guessing game unless there are some ear symtoms that can be seen.
Viral problems in humans seem to go in phases and I ended up in hospital in next room to someone else who had the same problem so I was diagnosed easily, what I dont know is what causes one person to catch it and not others as it seems only few seem to catch it. I didnt pass it to anyone at work for example.
If both Polly and Tom live fairly close to each other and both have the same problem, it is most likely to be viral and as long as the virus has not actually damaged something then time is the only healer and the length varies from one to another. I needed medication to help stop me being sick because of the dizziness.
I do hope Mr Vet can diagnose what is wrong with Tom and that he starts to improve like Polly :hug:
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Thanks everyone for the support. My boy says ta very much too. I'm going to ring vet at 8.30 to make appointment. Fingers crossed Mr Watts on duty today. Tom sick in the night (no surprise there) but also had a little poo and is eating a little fairly often. Still wobbling. I am confusing myself now and wonder if it is just another manifestation of his arthrirtis getting worse due to age and bad weather. Could be so many things that you have mentioned. Haven't been able to get a video of Tom doing his thing so hope he performs for the vet.
Will post later. Cheers everyone. Really appreciate it.
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I hope things have gone well at the vets and you know whats wrong with Tom now.
love
Tab
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I hope things have gone well at the vets and you know whats wrong with Tom now.
love
Tab
Ditto, do keep us posted.
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Went to see Mr Watts at 9.10am. Tom decided to get a great deal better when he saw the cat basket! I had quite a job putting him in it which was most unlike Saturday when he was no trouble. Whilst he is still not fully recovered, by the time it came for vet visit, he managed a little canter up the garden and walked away when I tried to pick him up. Also managed to jump from coffee table to sofa without falling over.
He did however still manage a wobble for the vet and vet gave him another thorough check up. Vet doesn't think it's the arthritis as the movement is more of an unsteady sway. He won't rule out ear trouble but can't see any evidence of it. No doubt that he is however a good deal better than Saturday. Vet says, without invasive investigations, he can only hazard a guess that he may have had a minor stroke and is recovering in his own time. I said Tom didn't show any strange behavioural signs. He said stroke can be caused by clot elsewhere in body not brain which may not affect a cat's behaviour.
I did mention vestibular disease but vet said this is loosely linked to strokes? Sorry can't remember his exact words.
He did however do blood tests and these are all in the normal range (which is lovely to know) so I gave Tom 3 cat Metacam drops for his arthritis. So that's where we are and we will keep an eye on him. A pain not knowing what caused this but glad our lad is coping better. Fingers crossed this continues.
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how's he doing this afternoon? Great that his bloods are fine. Just wondering how high is his bp?
hope things are improving.
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Sorry no idea about BP and never had a cat's BP tested so no idea how that is measured? Is it invasive? He is still very wobbly (for about 10% of the time he's moving) altho not as bad as over the weekend and difficult to tell if he is getting better or just learning to compensate. He is in no discomfort and worryingly jumping from place to place with abandon (that'll be the Metacam working).
He has eaten fresh chicken like a demon tonight. Really naughty about trying to take it off my plate. Guess he knows he can get away with blue murder at the moment. Strange tho that Hippkitty said her Polly had an exceptional appetite when recovering too. It's not as if he stopped eating for very long.
Have noticed him shaking his head maybe 4 times or so a day (which I mentioned to vet) but difficult to know whether I only notice this coz he has big wobble when he does it. He seems happy in himself.
Plan now is to leave it till Friday (assuming no deterioration) and ring vet then for a chat if no improvement and possibly mention a blood pressure test if not invasive.
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Hugs to both of you and keep us posted.
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Sending good vibes for a complete recovery over a long period.
Shaking his head could be an ear problem and if so he would wobble cos he maybe loses balance by shaking head.
How ever if he is getting around fine with a bit of wobbling and he is now eating again, things sound good ;D ;D
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Rosella PLEASE take Tom to Mr Bate. Some of the things your vet has told you are either wrong or very dumbed down in his way of explaining.
He said stroke can be caused by clot elsewhere in body not brain which may not affect a cat's behaviour.
I did mention vestibular disease but vet said this is loosely linked to strokes? Sorry can't remember his exact words.
Both of these are wrong. If a clot occurs elsewhere in the body, blocking a blood vessel, it is called thrombosis, and has no effect on brain activity unless the clot travels to the brain. A blood clot or haemorrhage in the BRAIN is a stroke. Only if this happens in the brain does it have neurological symptoms such as Tom's.
Vestibular disease has nothing to do with strokes. There are various causes of vest disease such as ear infection, brain tumour, (in this case, there is no improvement), or no cause at all: idiopathic, which is what Mr Bate thinks Polly has had. He gave her antibiotics to cover for the possibility of infection. She's improving dramatically. She saw him earlier and doesn't need to go back as long as the improvement continues.
As you're so close to my vet's, I would highly recommend that you go to him for a second opinion. He's an amazing diagnostician and doesn't do any unnecessary tests. He'll look at Tom, give him a thorough examination, including watching him walk, and tell you what he thinks is wrong. The consultation cost varies. Follow ups are cheaper (£16 ish plus meds) than initial consults.
Samantha, Polly and me are all sending good vibes to Tom. I hope he gets better soon, whatever he's got.
:Flowers:
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Good luck with him - I didn't think the BP tests were that invasive, with Ginger, they shaved a little bit of fur off his leg, then put the cuff on it, and did whatever on the machine to get a reading. Vet had initially said he would be there a while as they would need to do more than one reading, but he was calm enough so they got the two they needed in a relatively short space of time.
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Thanks for the info Desley. Tom is always pretty calm at vets (esp with Mr Watts who is very good with Billy the loony too, that's prob why I trust him so much). Tom's behaviour back to normal inc waking OH at 4.30am this morning for his breakfast after throwing up his chicken last night coz he was such a gorb. Also noticed he is back to drinking again. He still has the wobble but getting slightly less noticeable each day.
I'm still inclined to leave things alone Hippykitty for a few days to see if Tom continues to improve on his own. I have to admit to being useless when it comes to medical conditions. Both me and OH go queasy so not surprised I'm getting stuff mixed up with what vet says. Sorry to be so frustrating. The main thing was that vet said anything he said would only be complete guesswork as he couldn't see anything wrong with Tom apart from his wobble when he walked. I will however bear Mr Bate in mind. Cost thankfully not an issue re consultation fees coz he's our Tom. He has however already been seen by 2 vets and seems to be improving. Thanks so much for your concern. Tom says hi to Polly and Samantha and hope Polly recovers completely very soon.
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sooo glad Tom sounds like he's on the mend. If you do need to have his BP done, it isn't too invasive but many cats don't exactly enjoy it, esp done with the paw cuff - it's a cuff around the leg or possibly the tail. Some vets shave the area first and some don't. Mine says you don't need to as it doesn't help much and adds to the high bp as they get stressed from being shaved. However get him to set it all up first (the headphones and machine - they listen for the heartbeat through headphones as the noise can bother some cats) and then put on a bit of gel and cuff him and take a reading. Due to 'white coat syndrome' some vets take it several times if kitty is co-operating. I don't think it's more than a rough guide as it only measures the diastolic (I think??!!) rate, not both. Plus got totally diff readings from paw and tail - the latter was lower. But it will give you an indication of whether it's high or not. If Tom's calm at the vet it may be easy peasy.
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White coat syndrome in humans will mean its always a bad reading, one doesnt get calm...................I know, I suffer and my current doctors are so bad they thought one reading would be enough anyway, inspite of me telling them. I only gotta think BP and it goes up!
maybe cats dont react like that cos they dont understand.
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Tom almost back to normal. Am now going to try and claim on M&S policy for "swaying movement" which will be a nice test of the nil excess and how generous M&S are as really not at all sure that blood tests were done related to that or to put my mind at rest on continued use of metacam. Still I am expecting consultation fees at least to be covered.
Anyway who cares, our boy almost 100% (touch wood) so BP prob not required. Lord knows what this was all about. Just hope that's an end to it.
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Excellent news :)
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YAY!!! Glad to hear the good news ;D
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Sounds good...
Good luck with the claim.
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Am glad to hear he is much better now.
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So pleased ;D
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Cheers all. He still ain't 100% but close to it. Hope Polly continues to improve OK.
In my concern for my boy, I do not appear to have thanked Hippykitty for the vestibular disease links which I have just scanned thru again now the panic stage is over. There was no circling, vomiting or head tilt. There was however the sudden onset, imbalance and the almost complete recovery after 3 days so I'm inclined to think that may well have been the problem although it must have been a mild form.
Unfortunately one of the articles mentions it can recur and if it does recur, it can be worse. I suppose that's put the kibosh on moving insurance from M&S although there doesn't appear to be any treatment as such apart from medication to alleviate to nausea.
Meanwhile, the lady at vets who completes insurance claims says I should expect M&S to reimburse all vets charges including blood tests as they were done to help diagnose problem. I was going to have Tom's bloods done next month in any event due to his age and using metacam so that's a bit of a result. Fingers crossed.
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Polly is now 101% better. She's running up and down stairs like a mountain goat. She's getting naughty too - had to chase her round the bedroom to give her antibiotic earlier, little butter!
She looks better than she did before the illness, so I'm wondering if she had an underlying ear infection before the vestibular signs got bad. Her fur is glossier and she looks younger. Must be all the fuss!
So glad to hear that Tom is getting better. Wonderful, isn't it? :cheer:
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Oh this is wonderful news ;D and yes she may have the infection for a while before all the symptoms showed and that would have made her very under the waether.
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So very pleased at Polly's progress. God how mad you must be at VetsNOW. I'm seething with them.
Tom not as good this morning. Was leaning against video as he walked for support for a couple of seconds but he had only just woken up and it was time for metacam drops this morning so will see how he goes.
On an up note, have just Frontlined all 3. Yes that's right including Billy without having to corner him in cat carrier and got almost all of it on to him whilst grooming him (we ought to have a little trumpet icon lol)
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Hope it was just due to the early morning/just woke up theory x
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If he does have an ear problem, this is likely to be a waking up thing cos he has been lying down for a long time and therefore changing position will bring on the dizzyness.
I do hope he is alright.
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I've discovered a stash of 5 synulox Gill and just gave Tom first one just in case.
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How is Tom getting on?
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I started a new thread HippyKitty under Tom Again from which you will see he's been tested and retested all to no avail
I've started a mental scale of wobbliness W0 indicating no wobble and W10 indicating really bad. The men in white coats are doubtless on their way as I type. Last night was definitely a W0, this morning W2 I think so pretty fab compared to Sunday at 3am which was a W9
Thanks for asking. I'm giving him recovery time at the moment and keeping fingers crossed.
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does he wobble more when he's just got up and less when he's been up a while? Or when he looks up at you while walking? Hope Tom's doing well today, nearer 0 than 10.
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There is no link to when he wakes up although like all elderly chaps he takes a little longer to get going in the morning. He has had days when he was fine early on and deteriorated through the day and other days the reverse.
When he is in wobble mode though, he undoubtedly finds it difficult to co ordinate movement; so walking whilst looking up or behind (or even just walking when it's bad) makes him stagger or fall over. Today is however a pretty good day although not as good as yesterday which was great. God, aren't you all bored the death yet lol?
He was sort of trying to play with OH's birthday cards this morning; bless the babe.
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Are his back legs worse than the front? If so, you could try some exercises I did with P.
Basically, these were the same things you'd do when teaching a baby to walk. I knelt on the floor, P in front, facing me; supported her by her front legs so she was standing up on her hind legs, and gently walked her towards me, then gave her a big cuddle. I'd do this a few times - about five min sessions - several times a day. It seemed to help her sense of balance and make her use her back legs. I don't know if it helped, but it didn't do any harm (I asked the vet to check her bones etc were in place).
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Will bear in mind those exercises Hippykitty but touch wood he is pretty good again today. That's 3 days on the trot which is best yet. I sometimes wonder if I'm remembering correctly what he was like before this all started as obviously his arthritis in back legs has been an issue. I think exercises for arthritis are helpful too so might test him out later and see how he goes.
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Just posted on your other thread!