Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat Health & Behaviour => Health & Behaviour General => Topic started by: Hippykitty on July 05, 2007, 07:39:40 AM
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The emergency vet I saw last night thinks that Polly may have had a stroke. I don't know what to think. Is it a stroke, or adverse reaction to an overdose of Milbemax? (See other post.)
Does anyone know what the symptoms and prognosis are? Would be glad of any input. The vet's response was "oh, she's that old, better pts". Is he right? My instincts don't say so. But I could be wrong.
Does anyone know any good websites with info on? I'm very bad at searching and came up with things like "when I stroke my cat....."!
I'm very worried about Polly, she's been my friend for a long time, and I don't want to lose her yet (nor ever, if I'm honest), especially when I'm unsure the vet is right.
Will probably take her to my regular vet today, I trust them more.
Please help. :'(
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None of us can say if it is a stroke or just an adverse reaction sadly, so I would have her seen by your regular vet, but you will know when it is her time - how is she behaving today? I have checked a few sites that have lots of articles about various illnesses, and none have any info about strokes. Good luck, and I do hope your vet is more positive.
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The vet's response was "oh, she's that old, better pts". Is he right? My instincts don't say so. But I could be
wrong.
The fact that a cat is old is in my opinion not an excuse to PTS, it is a matter of prognosis. and quality of life.
2 of my own cats have had strokes, Tango had one when she was about 14 went blind and for a few days was not too good but regained her sight and recovered after a few days completely and lived until she was 18.
My Jeannie age about 12 had a stroke a few months ago and went blind, she is now on medication and although still blind and has a slight problem with a back leg occasionally she is very happy and having a quality life.
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Thanks Desley.
She's seems very uncomfortable still, and occasionally howls. She's incontinent, but I'm keeping her in a large carrying cage and just keep changing it, so she doesn't have anywhere else to 'go'. I'm doing this because she's behaving like a cat who's just coming round from a GA: moving drunkenly, can't get onto her feet, and kind of crawling like a baby trying to stand. These could be side effects of the Milbemax, but she doesn't seem to be getting better.
I first noticed her symptoms yesterday lunchtime. I'd given her the pill at about 5pm the previous afternoon. I'd hate to think I'd killed her by giving her this; she was fine before hand. I knew vets were bad for cats! (me having a rant) I might persuade a friend to come with me to the vet today for support.
I'd always hoped she would go gently in her sleep, not howling and acting weird.
I think I owe it to her to wait till the end of the weekend, or longer, before making any final decision. It's a choice I'll have to live with, and I want to be sure there was no way back.
Thanks Ela, now I'll definitely give her time to heal, but will see a vet I trust. There are two of them at my normal vets.
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I do hope that she recovers from this, it could just be coincidence with the wormer you know, as you would expect a reaction to happen quicker than that.
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Oh hun so sorry about this. Fingers crossed she recovers from this. Don't beat yourself up about this, there could be any number of reasons she's like this. Thinking of you :hug:
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Sorry HP nothing useful to add except didn't Sue's Paddy have a stroke too and recovered after a while? Hopefully she will see this thread. Just want to say I'm thinking of you and Polly. I certainly would refer to my normal vet though before reaching any decision and would trust your judgement about any pts decision rather than a locum vet. Hopefully your vet will be able to put your mind at rest that it wouldn't have been the Milemax.
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Sorry to hear about poor Polly :'(
I read up on Milbemax and can't see any ifo on adverse reactions. The only side effect was trembling if overdosed which passes after a day.
I found this on cat strokes - there are some sad stories but also a lot of positive ones regarding cats recovering. I hope it isn't that.
http://www.faqs.org/qa/qa-5712.html
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I think I owe it to her to wait till the end of the weekend, or longer, before making any final decision.
In the cases of my cats the vet gave medication immediately which helped the healing process. However, I must say that they were not incontinent or howling. If Polly were my cat I would most certainly take her to the vet today and not wait to see if there is any improvement.
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Have made an appt for her to see one of my regular vets - he's an excellent diagnostician. I haven't seen him for a while, as my cats prefer a female vet (she tickles them!). If she has had a stroke, he'll know.
I've just had a phone call from the drug manufacturer, who I emailed on tues (getting my days muddled, didn't sleep last night). They want to speak to the vet because they're concerned that it might be the wormer, but they don't think so.
I do hope this isn't the end for Polly. I know it sounds silly for such an oldie, but it doesn't feel like her time. I can only hope she has a silly bug or something passing. I've every faith in the vet I'm seeing. (When I had FLV cats he was the only vet in B'ham who understood the difference between being viraemic and having clinical feline leukaemia), consequently Minnie lived for another 4 years with his support.
I hope I return with a live cat, and not another to go in the garden.
I'm taking a friend with me who'll prevent me being bullied into having her pts too soon.
:cheeky: to death!
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I do hope this isn't the end for Polly. I know it sounds silly for such an oldie,
I and I am sure everyone else has the same hope. I expect you have stated somewhere but how old is Polly?
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Fingers crossed HP. You must let me know who this star vet is as you live so local.
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HK and Polly :hug: :hug: :hug:
HP, most of us have been there. As someone else said, you know when you know... if you know what I mean? :-:
When it happened to my brother, we where told it could take him 48 hours or 4 years to begin to recover. Read into that what you will. From memory, strokes are caused by a blood clot lodging in the brain thus starving it of oxygen. Does she have any condition where blood clots are likely to occur? Heart problems, things like that?
It's an awful time to live through. You must be exhausted with worry, hun. :hug:
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Ela, the friend (Nigel) who's coming with me today, worked out that she's 19/20 (my maths is no good).
Rosella, it's the Oaks Vet Centre on Watford Road, going towards Cotteridge. The best vets are Mr Bate and Mrs Garcia. All the others are fine too except the young guy, I think his name is Boardman, or something similar. He saw Sam once when she had cystitis, and handled her like a piece of meat, very roughly. Didn't think much of his attitude toward the cat or me. The other two are great, and Mr Sender isn't bad. When I first went to the practise, about 20 years ago, Mr Sender was awful; he needed to do tests for everything. But now he's gained experience and is better with the animals and the people, and can diagnose without a plethora of expensive tests.
Pinkbear, sorry about your brother.
Polly only has a mild heart murmur, but I understand these are common and generally harmless.
I've been singing to her. Not sure if she was joining in or telling me to shut up, but she started making a howling sound. Gave her a gentle talking to. Told her we aren't ready to lose her, so she's not bloomin well going!
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:hug: :hug: hope everything goes well at the vets today x
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I found these sites which might help:
http://www.vetspecialists.co.uk/06_Animal_Welfare/Neurology_Facts/Stroke.html
http://www.walthamusa.com/articles/MARCH.pdf
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_meningioma.html
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The vet's response was "oh, she's that old, better pts".
>:(
Thats so sad to hear, I hope its just a reaction to the meds. I would take her another vets and see what they say. How old is Polly?
:hug:
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After my brother started to recover enough, he told us he was sort of aware we were there. He could recognise voices, etc... so she knows you're there! ;)
A lot of cats do have heart murmurs and it doesn't effect them. Jumpy was diagnosed with one a year ago, however, he deteriorated a few weeks back and is now on lifetime meds. I am told he is at high risk of blood clots.
Bless you, and wee Polly. :care:
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Ela, what meds is Jeannie on? Is it steroids?
Want to go to vet armed with info. Anything would help, thanks.
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Ela, the friend (Nigel) who's coming with me today, worked out that she's 19/20 (my maths is no good).
Bless her, yes I suppose she is a Golden Oldie, however, that does not mean a vet should only consider PTS. Although perhaps options of treatment are more limited more and the prognosis a little harder to call.
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I think they do give steroids for a stroke. I still think this has been brought on by the Milbemax, it seems a bit of a coincidence if you ask me. I've just phoned my vets now to speak to Ian but he won't be back til this afternoon. I will find out the symptoms and what he gave the kittens to counteract the effect of the Milbemax :hug:
Give Polly a big hug for me, xxxx
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Ela, what meds is Jeannie on? Is it steroids?
No as it was blood pressure and thyroid probs that lead to her stroke, she is on Fortekor, Felimazole & Amlodipine.
She has responded to treatment very well and her blood pressure is now almost 1/2 of what is was.
Tango my other cat who had a stroke age 14 did have steroids and lived another 4 yrs after her stroke.
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Thanks Dawn, that's much appreciated.
POLLY JUST PURRED!
This is the first time since she's been like this. I was playing a silly game through her cage, where I make a stupid noise, then go 'booooo' as I touch her nose, and she started purring. We also played 'tickly whiskers' etc, and I swear she was smiling. Samantha went to see her too, though she's a bit confused as to why Polly's being kept in the (oversized) carrying cage.
Tears came to my eyes when I heard her purr. Don't think she likes my singing very much; it makes her howl!
Ela, I think some steroids would help Polly, the emergency vet gave her an injection of some, but I think she needs them daily.
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I don't have anything useful to add - just letting you know I hope Polly recovers quickly :hug:
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On one of the things I read, It said the vet can administer cortisone specific to reducing brain swelling caused by stroke.
Lets hope Polly recovers :ahh:
What time is your appointment Hippy?
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The appointment's for 5.10pm.
What does the 'specific' mean? Is it a particular type?
Need all the knowledge I can get for her. Thanks.
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I will see if I can find it again. It said a specific type of cortisone but didn't say what it was. Another article I just read said her cat was treated with Cortisone and Bufferin. I just checked what Bufferin us and its buffered aspirin to be gentler on the stomach. You said Polly is on Fortekor so the vet would probably not give her that as the Fortekor leaflet says not to be taken with NSAIDS (Non Steroid anti-anflammatory drugs) and aspirin is a NSAID.
I found the article - it was one of those on the link I gave earlier
**************************Hi everyone, I just wanted to share some positive news about this topic. My 8 year old cat had a stroke on Monday May 10 and was then attacked by a dog (poor little baby) I found her when I got home from work and her little head was tilted to the side and her third eyelid was closed over one eye and she had lost use of her left side - needless to say I rushed her to the vet unsure of what was going on.
My important message here is that despite the fact that initially she looked terrible (couldnt walk, lost vision, had the head tilt) after two days on IV drugs (antibiotics and a cortisone specific to reducing brain swelling) she regained use of her legs and on the third day her vision returned, its now a week and one day later and i would say she is at 90% of what she was prior to the stroke.
If anyone wants me to check the bottle to find out the name of the cortisone I am happy to give the name to you at it seems to have worked wonders. Last tuesday I felt sure I would be faced with euthanasing her but a week later she is almost normal - please dont give up too early when they have a stroke, give them 3 - 5 days at least for the drugs to work.
If anyone wants to contact me you can email me at mm072@yahoo.com
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Also wanted to say that 5.10pm is a long wait -although half the day has gone already. I would have thought the sooner treatment was started, the better.
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You dont seem to be having a good time with your cats, I hope both Sam and Polly get better soon. :hug:
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Thanks for the info Mark. Polly saw the emergency vet at about midnight last night, and he gave her a steroid and painkiller injection. I'm just keeping her quiet till go to the vet later. Had to make the appointment for that time if I wanted a friend to come with me for support. It will be less than 24hrs since she last saw a vet, albeit a locum.
She's resting peacefully at the moment. I've been watching over her all night and I'm crackered!
cc, ironically, Sam seems fine; and it was for her I got the Milbemax!
Buses always arrive in threes. Wonder what next?
Must have a nap before I go to the vet. Wrote down the name of the cortisone from the link, Mark, it's Delta Cortef. She's not taking Fortekor, so that would be an option.
Will see what the vet says. Hope he's on form.
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Sorry, misread the thread that it was Ela's Jeannie who is on Fortekor :-[
Also just saw Mell's message below the other one giving the name - heartening news that after 2 weeks her cat is 99% better ;D
Re cortisone + Bufferin, maybe the vet gave 2 types of anti-inflammatory with different effects to give a quick improvement.
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Just popped back after googling bufferin and cats. Don't like the idea that it could be fatal. That's a really bad side effect for a drug to have!
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I hope everything goes ok and the news is good :hug: :hug: :hug:
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I'm very sorry to hear that Polly is unwell, Hippykitty. Can't advise, just want to add my support. Let us know what the vet says this afternoon.
:hug: to her and to you.
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Overdose could be fatal as cats metabolise aspirin slowly but the recommended dose of 10mg per kg bodyweight every 72 hours should be fine (there was a thread the other day on aspirin) http://www.chaptanservices.com/purrs/index.php?topic=5494.0
Here is the link to the cat that was given Bufferin + Cortisone
http://www.thecatpractice.com/case_buck.html
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She's not taking Fortekor, so that would be an option.
Fortekor was given to my Jeannie after her stroke as it was very high blood pressure that caused it. Obviously if Polly did have a stroke I am not in a position to know the cause.
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Sorry to hear about Polly, hope all goes well at the vets later. Just to say, my friend's cat had a stroke recently, but has made a full recovery. Also, just becuase Polly's old is not a reason to PTS if she can be successfully treated. Hopefully though, its just an unusual reaction to the milbemax and she will soon be feeling better. :hug:
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Hoping for good news about Polly. I think they can tell quite a lot from looking in their eyes (like bleeding retinas caused by very high bp) and for bp Amlodipine/Istin works a lot faster than Fortekor acc to my vet.
What did Novartis have to say about Milbemax maybe causing this reaction in a cat with high bp (assume Polly has high bp?).
don't give up hope and all the best.
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Have only just seeen this and hope that your regular vet can help Polly, my thoughts are with you :hug: :hug:
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I'm sorry to hear about Polly. I hope the vet visit goes well and that s/he can help Polly.
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I hope no news is good news - they must be back fro the vets now?
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waiting here too
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fingers crossed hope everything is ok x praying for Polly x
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All fingers and paws crossed here
ems
xxxx
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Fingers crossed here.
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Adding mine, and Jumpy and Tilly's names to those praying for good news. :hug:
It was three hours ago the appointment, wasn't it? I hope no news is good news....
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Sorry it's taken so long for me to tell you the news, but the friends who came to the vet with me stayed for a while. Nigel's girlfriend bought some food round. When they left, I caught up with some sleep.
The vet was cautiously positive.He gave her a thorough examination, but didn't check her bp, because he didn't want to put her through the stress yet. He's not at all convinced she's had a stroke, though there's still the possibility. He thinks she may have an inner ear infection. He didn't think it was a reaction to the drug as the correct dosage was given.
He injected her with antibiotics and steroids (at my insistence, just in case it is a stroke). He thinks the 'head tilt' looks worse because of her trimmed ear. Her left ear seems very blocked, and it's her left side she's unstable on. There could be a healthy ear drum behind the blockage but we won't know that until she shows further signs. At least I have a vet I trust, which is reassuring for me and Polly.
She isn't eating yet. But looks for the litter tray to widdle in. When I put her in, she has a little wee. I've let her out of the cage now, as the vet wanted her to have more room. My lounge is a fairly clear room, so I'm giving her little breaks in here. (Though she's purring on my lap and watching me type at the mo.)
She seems more alert (touch wood) but still wobbly. I wish she'd eat. My vet didn't want me to syringe feed her while she's feeling giddy. I've been smearing food round her mouth. Although she licks it off, she doesn't go to the dish I've place nearby. I've started putting them on some phone books, as I've seen it suggested on Purrs that the dishes are raised. But she's still not interested. She might be feeling nauseous from the dizziness and antibiotics etc.
Anyway, for the moment things look a little more hopeful. She's going back to the vet tonight (fri) so that he can assess her and give more meds if necessary.
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I'm getting a little concerned that Polly won't eat, especially because of that fatty liver problem I heard about on purrs some time ago. I've tried offering her small amounts of food and smearing it around (and in) her mouth, and have done the same with butter; but she isn't interested. She won't eat dry food either.
Before Desley, I think it was, told me that they can become ill from missing food for just 24 hrs, this wouldn't have worried me too much. I think Polly is off food due to the giddiness, and whatever is causing it. The vet wasn't keen on me syringe feeding her, but if she continues like this I might try mixing some raw egg and milk and putting into a syringe. I know raw egg isn't normally a good thing, but in an emergency I suppose it's okay. Polly isn't a co-operative patient though.
If anyone has any ideas I haven't tried, I would be really grateful. :thanks:
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Have only just caught up with this thread, sorry that Polly isn't well :hug:
There's some good tips on the CRF website for persuading a cat to eat. http://www.felinecrf.org/persuading_cat_to_eat.htm They are not CRF specific so hopefully one of them will tempt Polly's tastebuds. Hope she is feeling better soon, don't forget to take care of yourself too :hug:
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I wouldn't worry about her not eating yet Hippy, it is normally overweight cats that can have issues so soon after not eating, and if the vet isn't bothered, and doesnt' want you syringe feeding her, then I would go off his advice, he is the one that has seen her - and he is seeing her tonight, so can reassess if necessary. i am glad he doesn't think it is a stroke, I'm not sure why he wouldnt check her BP though, it isn't a stressful thing to have done (or wasn't when Ginger had it done). Good luck with her, and I am glad you have a vet you trust.
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I'm keeping everything crossed for Polly and hope she starts eating soon.
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it isn't a stressful thing to have done (or wasn't when Ginger had it done). Good luck with her, and I am glad you have a vet you trust.
My Jeannie has to have hers done every two months but she has a 2 hr appointmet to give her time to rest and get used once again to the vet and nurse. if they do it straight away it can go up by 100 more than it really is.
I expect different cats act in different ways., as I am sure if it were my Jessica she would just lay there and purr.
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Just wanted to add my support, I know how worrying it is when they won't eat :hug:
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Just checking up on Polly - hope she eats soon. Have you tried the water from tuna in springwater? That might reawaken her tastebuds. Let us know how it goes this evening.
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Perhaps the vet may consider giving Polly a B6 injection to encourage eating.
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or steroids if he thinks it right as they cause the munchies. Poor Polly must be feeling really sick. She may vomit though if you force feed, which would be worse. If she's peeing, she must be drinking? Don't worry about the not eating as the vet is there and if it comes to the liver problem thing, he can put her on a drip to avoid that.
hope for some better news tonight.
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I am keeping my fingers crossed that vet no. 2 is correct. But if he is, I'd like a word with vet no. 1 myself! :boxer:
Fluid intake would be my concern as well, HP. Have you thought of smearing a small amount of soft food on her nose?
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Just caught up with this thread after reading the other one!
Hope Polly starts eating soon.
Is she drinking ? If not it might be a good idea to syringe some water into her
I would deff put in a complaint with the 1st vet - just say you had took his advice and PTS !!!!!
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When my mums cat got ill and wasnt eating she syringed him raw egg yolk.
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When my cat wasn't eating vet told us not to stress about it as a cat will never starve its self, they can go up to 5 days without eating apparently.
Hope you get some good news today.Fingers crossed and praying for you all. Take care of yourself, you will need to keep your strength up.
:hug: :hug:
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If I was in your shoes, I would try syringing just to keep her strength up..... I would ask the vets about some Hill's a/d and even if you only get a little down her, it's better than nothing. Fingers crossed she improves bless her.
I asked the vet about the symptoms, and they did say Polly's symptoms sound exactly the same as the kittens but they've only had a reaction with kittens and not adults, they said it may just be a coincidence with her having the Milbemax the day before.
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My mum was told not to worry as a cat can go 5 days as well but since going on catchat/purrs, I have learned differently that a cat can develop fatal liver disease in around 24 hours without food.
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My mum was told not to worry as a cat can go 5 days as well but since going on catchat/purrs, I have learned differently that a cat can develop fatal liver disease in around 24 hours without food.
I lost my Norwegian Forest cat to Hepatic Lipidosis and she wasn't really overweight :'( I would always be careful when they don't eat, regardless of size :'(
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How did Polly get on tonight at the vet Hippykitty? I drove past at 5.24pm coming home from work and wondered if you were both in there. Silver car and red car at front. Was that you? Do you get the impression that Polly is on my mind? So hope that she is continuing to prove 1st vet wrong but it all sounds very serious whatever it is that has caused this.
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Sorry Hippykitty also meant to ask who you use for emergency vets? We use Vets Now on Hagley Road which is the PDSA place but SOOOO expensive and not very nice. Only times I've been they were OK but just gave pain relief till the Monday and advised to go to usual vet.
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I dont know if cats with inner ear probs suffer in same way as humans and if they do I can help with the human probs :sick:
When you have a problem like this it makes you dizzy and unbalanced and you feel terrible. It is hard to move cos you get dizzy changing position and getting dizzy makes you sick, or feeling sick so food is about the last thing on your mind....Its not a case of stimulation of taste and smell , you are just physicaly incapaple of eating cos of the dizzyness and sickness.
It does all depend on how badly you have the problem and what effects you will have, I had a virus the first time and collapsed in the street after intermitent dizzy spells for a couple of weeks before but the second time the virus did more damage and although I am not dizzy and sick I am unbalanced and if I tried to do the things that I cant balance for it would have that effect and the virus was 4 yrs ago now!
I suspect cats are slightly different and of course other things can cause this like heart, stroke, diabetes, stress so you really need to take the guidance of your vet , especially if you trust him.
Hope that Polly slowly improves. :hug: :hug:
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Bobsmum - sadly, cats not starving themselves isn't true. When we dont eat, our bodies send fat reserves to keep us going - in humans and dogs, this is fine, we process them, whereas in cats, they struggle to process these reserves, and as a result there is a build up in the liver, which tends to make them feel as though they are full, when in fact they haven't eaten, so they can become anorexic quite easily, and the cycle is very hard to break, as the reserves keep being sent, so the brain still sends full messages. This is why HL is more common in overweight cats, as they have the fat reserves to send. They dont tend to develop it in 24 hours, but it can be as little as 3 days, although some cats can go up to 2 weeks before it can be an issue. I personally dont let them have more than 1 day to be on the safe side.
Hope Polly continues to improve Hippy
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I've not heard that before Desley. Am now wondering why my former vet (former note) always told me it was no bad thing that our Gandolf was a "bit" overweight in his later years (died age 18 or 19) as he would have reserves to fall back on if he was ill. Whereas you are saying they "struggle to process these reserves". I have always got some solace from the fact that Tommy is still 5.2kg at 17 1/2 years of age altho it's mainly muscle not fat.
In any event would love to know how Polly's getting on. Hope it's just a case of Hippykitty's visitors again.
I can well understand Gill's point about feeling sick if feeling dizzy. Thankfully Hippykitty got vet to give some steroids which hopefully will help Polly's appetite if dizziness stops.
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Here is an article which describes it better than me
http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/hep-lipidosis.html
And a very basic description, for those who dont want to look at links
The disease progresses this way:
A previously overweight cat stops eating for whatever reason
Lacking food, the body starts sending fat cells to the liver to process into lipoproteins for fuel.
Cats' livers are not terribly efficient at processing fat, and much of the fat is stored in the liver cells.
Left untreated, eventually the liver fails and the cat dies
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Thanks Desley. Comforting to know that I don't have any fat cats (or should that be weight challenged?) at the moment. TBH Gandolf was my one and only fat cat ever and wouldn't be surprised if that's what he suffered from at the end reading that link. Loved him so :Luv:
How's things Hippykitty?
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if you read Dawn's post, it doesn't always happen to overweight cats, and she isn't the only person on here to have lost a cat to HL
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The article said the chances are greater of FLS in a cat that was obese to begin with. I realise that doesn't mean always but I take comfort where I can.....
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Have to say I dont worry as much with the 'normal' cats not eating as I did when Tom didn't eat. Still only allow them a day though, and always have syringes and a/d in.
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Hi Hippykitty. How is Polly?
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Bobsmum - sadly, cats not starving themselves isn't true. When we dont eat, our bodies send fat reserves to keep us going - in humans and dogs, this is fine, we process them, whereas in cats, they struggle to process these reserves, and as a result there is a build up in the liver, which tends to make them feel as though they are full, when in fact they haven't eaten, so they can become anorexic quite easily, and the cycle is very hard to break, as the reserves keep being sent, so the brain still sends full messages
Thanks for advice, Im still a bit ignorant when i comes to sickness and stuff as Bob never took any illness's in the 6yrs we had him, maybe if I was as clued up as you guys I might have been able to question vets methods instead of just nodding and saying 'do whatever you have to'
Hope Polly is well today :Luv:
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Sorry I haven't updated before, but have been busy nursing and running around for Polly. Raided the local shop and butcher (haven't been in one of those for 27 years!) and bought anything cat-tasty I could find. The woman in the butcher's recommended mince and turkey slices. Polly LOVES the turkey (so does Sam!) and ate a decent amount in the afternoon. Since then she's had some more and not quite half a satchet of whiskas. She's drinking water about twice a day.
Borrowed a kittening pen from CP, which she goes into when she's tired, or I've got to leave her (to have a bath or go shopping, or SLEEP!). I let her wander round the lounge for a few hours a day, to give her some sense of co-ordination as she tries to stagger round. Touch wood, I think she's slowly improving.
Saw the vet at 5.30 yesterday, so may not have arrived when you drove past, Rosella, I was in a blue car (my friend Rebekah and her OH Nigel came with me). The vet was cautious in his opinion that she was improving, but added that this could be a small improvement in a general downhill slope if she has a brain tumour (if she's had a stroke, he thinks this is the cause). He wants to see her again early next week. Will probably take her on Wed, as Rebekah is free then, and would like her to be with me in case of bad news. He noticed that, although she's still unsteady and circling, she stays on her feet. (I think she circles in the surgery because he faces her to the wall so she turns round to find somewhere to hide! She doesn't circle at home, just staggers, though this SEEMS to be improving.)
She on antibiotics (synulox sp?) and steroids (prednisolone). She takes them fairly well.
The on-call vet was the one at the Hagley Road PDSA 'Vetsnow'. His comment about having her pts came directly after I'd told him how old she is (about 19/20, a bit indeterminate, as she was a feral when taken in at the cat rescue, so her age was guessed, I've had her and Sam since 93). I think he's one of these vets who considers old age not worth bothering with. If he was a doctor, he'd have the same attitude to people: not worth treating if you're over 70.
Thanks for all your good wishes :thanks: will try to keep you informed as circumstances allow. But I'm now either sleeping or giving tlc.
Oh, a little question for any omnivores. What is the best way to cook fresh mince for cats? How long will it keep in the fridge (mine's very cold) after being cooked? Don't have a freezer. Seems like centuries since I've cooked meat, my friends are veggies (and Nigel lives on junk food) and my mother's spending the summer with a sister in Bournemouth, so can't ask her.
Also, I bought some tinned mince which has onions in. Should I give this to the cats, or pass it on to Nigel? :hungey:
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I hope she is getting better :)
Was it a PDSA vet that suggested PTS HK?
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No cc, they work from the PDSA building at night and weekends, but it's some kind of locum service called VETSNOW which apparently stands for vets night or weekends. Since vets stopped doing their own out of hours on-call work, they use this (and probably different versions of the same type of thing in other areas) so they can get their beauty sleep.
Years ago, I dated a vet who worked in Stoubridge and used to stay with him when he was on call; he was rarely called out, and on the odd occasions that he had to see a case, it didn't particular cracker him.
The out of hours service cost £144, compared to the £16 consultation fee plus meds my normal vet charges. Wouldn't have minded if the service had been good. He may have been right in that she will (but not yet) have to be pts, but he said it clinically and in a 'let's get on with the job now' way.
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service called VETSNOW
What a surprise.
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Delighted that Polly seems to be progressing especially that she is eating. Hopefully someone will be able to tell you how to cook the mince and how long it will keep but I would just lighly fry in a tiny amount of olive oil for 5 or 10 mins asit will produceit's own fat unless very lean and keep in fridge for say 4 days if it's very cold. Chuck out though if it loses it's red colour in fridge. Fingers crossed she continues to improve and eat. Have you tried the sardines in Tomato sauce that everyone seems to be swear by when a cat loses it's appetite?
Is she insured? My vet also uses VetsNOW at PDSA on Hagley Road for out of hours cover altho I thought they were also PDSA vets and they are extremely expensive. My former vet practice still provide their own out of hours cover and therefore cheaper but it is a Manor Vets practice which is like a chain and had become very impersonal and Gandolf's pts went very badly so I couldn't justify staying. I am now with Lordswood Vets (opposite swimming baths in Harborne) and really rate Mr Watts (former barrister and draws cartoons as a hobby. He is also the vet for Birmingham Dogs Home which is a bit more to the point lol)
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You're taking such good care of her :Flowers: and it does sound too early to be talking about pts...stupid vet >:(. You'll know when it's the right time and hopefully that won't be for some time yet :)
I hope she's feeling better today...love and hugs to you both :hug: :hug:
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Thanks lilycat.
Ela, have you come across vetsnow before, are they known for being particularly hopeless?
She's not insured, Rosella, but I keep a slush fund for vet bills. I'd rather put money into that (and earn interest) than give it to an insurance company. I'm sure there are good arguments both ways, but I'm not sure they would have insured such elderly ladies anyway.
Going to try more turkey now. (If she's forgiven me for the antibiotic I gave her an hour ago!).
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She's not insured, Rosella, but I keep a slush fund for vet bills. I'd rather put money into that (and earn interest) than give it to an insurance company. I'm sure there are good arguments both ways, but I'm not sure they would have insured such elderly ladies anyway.
Going to try more turkey now. (If she's forgiven me for the antibiotic I gave her an hour ago!).
Yes it's a difficult one to call but glad slush fund available for Polly. Whilst M&S will cover any age it's bloomin expensive and, as any existing conditions not covered and most elderly puddies have ishoos of one kind or another, difficult to say if worthwhile. Good luck with the turkey.
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It's great news that Polly is fighting and good luck with the turkey. I would keep her away from the onions though.
good luck!
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Ela, have you come across vetsnow before, are they known for being particularly hopeless?
See topic in Animal Petitions
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Glad Polly is getting her appetite back. It must be an encouraging sign?
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She ate quite a pile of the turkey (which I tore into little pieces). She seemed more reluctant than yesterday about putting her head down to eat, so I stuffed the turkey in her mouth in tiny portions, once in, she loved the taste and ate it willingly. Had to shut Sam in the kitchen with her portion, as she goes bonkers when I get it out of the fridge. I had to put it on the mantel to warm a little, and Sam was trying to get at it! Don't think she'll ever eat Whiskas again!
Polly's on the sofa in her large carrying cage, having a snooze. The kittening pen is in the bedroom and I want her to be with me, and she seems comfy in the cage.
Gave my mum a ring about the mince, now have strict instructions (she's a 90 year old dragon, I was a late child!) about cooking it. Will give the tinned mince with onions to Nigel, sure my junk-food friend will put it on some instant mash or something!
Will check the petitions Ela, thanks.
Money isn't a consideration as far as her care is concerned. An MRI scan is out of my financial reach, but the vet advised against it anyway, because if it did show a tumour or heamorrhage, there's little which can be done with those results. But if it could help, I'd twist the arm of the dragon (my mother).
She's looking very settled at the mo.
Thanks for the support, everyone, it's nice to have people to talk to who understand how important cats are to us.
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Glad Polly is eating and settled. Sounds as if she's feeling a bit better, and hope you are too!
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See about Vets now on my thread Emergency vets grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
So please Polly is eating and hope she continues to do well.
To help her to eat, try raising her dish up on top of 6 pack of coke cans......well about that height and she may find it eassier cos she doesnt have to bend down. Kocka ate from there for the last couple of years, or from my finger !
I think you are doing everything you can and I am sure the TLC is helping her so much :hug: :hug:
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:hug: Great to hear Polly is eating, keep well.
Also had to use Vetsnow when Bob took suddenly ill, cost a fortune, away to read link now
love to you all
angie x
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She loved the mince and ate about three quarters of a large tablespoon with relish. I had to put a little into her mouth first, then she dug in.
She's looking better in herself: more alert, in better condition; but her back legs still aren't under her control. Strange, she's stopped circling and her front legs seem much better, but when she uses her back legs they sort of splay to the sides.
She's eating well - I'm still having to stuff the turkey into her mouth, raising it doesn't seem to help - but hiding and sleeping lots when she's in the lounge. Having said that, she's just popped out and walked across the lounge slowly. I'm sure she's got more control of her back legs ;D
Day by day she seems to be improving. (Touch wood)
I know I have to lose her sometime and I'll never be ready, but not yet.
She's just walked slowly and steadily into the kitchen and is having a drink.
I'm taking her back to the vet on wednesday. I hope the improvement continues and isn't just a temporary thing.
Strangely, taking care of a poorly cat is bringing out the best in me. The washing up has never been so regularly done. It's galvanised me into action.
It was so sweet last night. I was watching a video of Garfield in the lounge with Polly on my lap, when Sam jumped up and washed Polly's back, then settled, resting her chin on Polly. We all fell asleep together and woke at about 2am, Polly purring away. :Luv:
Sam's loving the new diet.
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From what you write, I think we can have cautious optimism that the improvement is not a temporary thing. :hug:
My best wishes to Polly.
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Something great has just happened. She just had the power and control in her back legs to jump onto my lap. ;D
I'm ecstatic!!
She couldn't do this last night.
Sorry I keep telling you her little achievements, but it's so wonderful I can't keep it to myself and my friends are getting a bit tired of my calls!
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:hug: great news, keep up the good work :hug:
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that's wonderful! So happy for you :hug:
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Completely delighted for you both. Well done Polly.
Boo hiss spit.... to VetsNOW vet.
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That's great news ;D
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I am so pleased, well done Polly ;D
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I'm ecstatic!!
Very understandable, wonderful news.
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Something great has just happened. She just had the power and control in her back legs to jump onto my lap. ;D
I'm ecstatic!!
She couldn't do this last night.
Sorry I keep telling you her little achievements, but it's so wonderful I can't keep it to myself and my friends are getting a bit tired of my calls!
I don't think any of us get fed up with hearing about cats - especially if its good news ;D
Wll done Polly & HK ;D
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Am so pleased to hear such a positive update, she is very lucky to have such a good owner and not one that listens to the everything the vet recommends. Does make you worry about our out of hours services though!! Good luck for WEdnesday, I am sure the vet will be pleased with her progress though, and dont apologise for telling us all these little things, we are all really pleased to read them.
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How is Polly today, Hippykitty?
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Hi, another update. Took Polly to vet earlier. She's managing to walk in a straight line (even sneaked up the stairs when my back was turned, and jumped over a box of books!). Her back legs are a bit oddly splayed.
My vet now believes she probably has vestibular disease (commonly confused with strokes, according to some searches I've done) which makes her feel very giddy. He's giving her antibiotics, but cutting down the steroids as this may not be good for her age if she has underlying conditions such as kidney problems. He doesn't want to do too many tests at this time, as this would involve too much stress which he wants to avoid at the mo. According to my vet, the splayed back legs are a balancing compensation. I mentioned diabetes, as I'd done a search for conditions causing hind leg weakness, and this was a highly featured one. He'd noticed that her legs were showing a different type of weakness (she walks on her paws, with diabetes they walk on their hocks).
He said it could be anything from a week to months for her to get over this, provided she hasn't got a tumour. After a few weeks, the situation should be reassessed and pts considered if necessary. This isn't an option at the mo, as far as I'm concerned. She seems a happy old lady.
Right now she's fast asleep on my sofa, cuddled up to one of my jumpers. Will wake her up soon to give her a meal of sliced beef. I have to put bits into her mouth as she won't bend forward (probably too dizzy) but she eats willingly when in mouth.
Yesterday, I noticed that Sam had been to the Ministry of Silly Walks. She was goose-stepping with her back legs, trying to copy Polly. I think the clever cat has worked out that this is the way to get REAL meat! :rofl:
Fingers crossed for the best. ;D
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Fingers crossed. :blow kiss:
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Polly sounds like she is slowly improving ;D
Yes I think you are right about the eating and her getting giddy. And yes again about back legs trying to compensate.
If you think of Minimopsical, she splays her legs to try and stay balanced.
Lots of love to Polly :hug:
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Am glad the vet is seeming positive about her, and hope that she makes a full recovery. Good luck to her.
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:rofl: :rofl: nice one Sam.
:Luv: :Luv: fingers crossed for Polly
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That's great news! Lots of turkey and your tlc and Polly will get stronger. It's so wonderful to watch isn't it when they've been so ill and then they do something simple that you used to take for granted, like jumping up on your lap. Hope she continues to make steady progress.
Ho hum...message from Sam: Forget the Whiskas, gimme that white stuff :rofl:
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Was just off to bed (after falling asleep in front of telly!) and decided to give Polly her exercises and some food first.
The exercises are just: me kneeling, holding Polly's front legs and walking her back legs towards me. Big cuddle. Then a few more goes. I thought this might help her coordination and strengthen her legs. She's getting better.
After this came the feeding. I was putting out fresh water and food in the kitchen for Sam, before hand-feeding Polly, when Polly walked in and tucked into Sam's, who stood back and let her. She's only had a little, but eaten it on her own. I won't give her anymore, so she can learn that if she eats herself, she avoids the ordeal of being handfed. ;D
I was so amazed by this, I had to tell someone - at 3am!
Here's hoping she continues to improve. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that my vet is right about the vestibular disease due to ear infection.
Thanks for letting me bother you with her little achievements. I realise it may be giving me false hope, but taking things day by day. :ok:
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Aw.....slowly does it ;D
Good luck for Polly HK.......hopefully she is on the road to recovery ;)
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Thanks for letting me bother you with her little achievements. I realise it may be giving me false hope, but taking things day by day. :ok:
You're not bothering us, don't even say that. Think I can speak for others when I say we all care and we all want to know how little Polly is doing. Hope you got some sleep after 3am?!
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You're not bothering us, don't even say that. Think I can speak for others when I say we all care and we all want to know how little Polly is doing. Hope you got some sleep after 3am?!
I'll second that. Only just catching up on this thread, and it sounds like she making excellent progess ;D
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You definately are not bothering us, we would be hounding you if you didnt keep us up to date ;D
I am pleased that Polly is doing so well and slowly slowly is the best way :hug:
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Update: Polly went to the vet earlier today. He thinks she's definitely improving and doesn't have to go back again. She has to continue the antibiotics for a little longer.
She's purring on my lap now. I think she knows! She's still a little wobbly, but vet says this will slowly improve, though could take weeks.
I'll be glad when she can walk downstairs again, otherwise I'll have to get a stair gate fitted!! She skids down them!
Thanks for all your good wishes.
:thanks:
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Wonderful news ;D
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Another wonderful update, am so pleased to hear it.
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That fabulous news :hug:
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Wonderful news. Perhaps now is the time to contact the head of the emergency vets and complain. It may help to save the life of others whose owners are not so well informed.
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Good news indeed!
And I agree with Ela about taking this matter further.
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Wonderful news. Perhaps now is the time to contact the head of the emergency vets and complain. It may help to save the life of others whose owners are not so well informed.
I would add, If the head of the practice doesn't give you satisfactory answers, I would take it to the RCVS - they can't play god with our pets
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contact the head of the emergency vets and complain.
How do I find out who this is? Should I contact the PDSA branch who allow them to use their building? Or try to find a contact address/email for VetsNow from a website?
My only concern about doing this is how it will affect my relationship with my vet, who is brilliant apart from the use of VetsNow. I'm concerned that I'll have to find another vet, or that he'll give my cats second-rate care.
Perhaps my concerns are a bit paranoid; and I do think that the cost and the advice given by the emergency vet was appalling. If I'd gone along with him Polly would be buried in the garden instead of purring on my lap. :oh noo:
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If I'd gone along with him Polly would be buried in the garden instead of purring on my lap. :oh noo:
Excatly !!
How many other people would have just taken what he said as fact ?
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There is no connection between your vet and Vets Now, except he uses their service. He should be interested that they are so bad, maybe its worth mentioning to him what happened and see what he says?
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I would definitely take it further probably in writing. It's high priced incompetence. Good luck though as vets close ranks like all the professions, but like Ela said, it just may make them a bit more careful with someone else's loved cat in the future.
Are all the Vets Now emergency vets hopeless as they do emergency cover in SE London too and my vet thinks they are good. I only rang them up once and the nurse told me not to come, as all they could do was stabilise so I'd waste my money and time - she was very nice. So is this a particular branch best avoided then, or across the board?
Wonderful wonderful news anyhow and I'll bet you're enjoying those Polly-purrs like never before.
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Just found the vets now website and sent them this via their 'contact us' section:
I recently had cause to contact vets now as my cat was circling, howling, and unable to stand properly. This was in the late evening. I was given vets now's number when I phoned my vet number. I was astonished by the quoted cost of merely walking through the door: £130! The woman on phone emotionally blackmailed me into taking my cat in by saying that she couldn't guarantee she would survive till the morning. I love my cat, so took her, inspite of having limited resources.
When I arrived at the PDSA building which housed vets now, everything was dim, as though it was shut and they were all in bed! This doesn't amount to at-the-ready emergency care. The vet I saw said my cat had had a stroke and the kindest thing would be pts. Luckily, I took no notice of his advice.
The following day she saw my regular vet, who diagnosed probable vestibular disease and treated her with antibiotics and a short course of steroids. Within a week she was considerably better.
Many people would have taken the appalling advice of the vets now vet and had their beloved animal pts. I didn't because I'm sceptical of all medical advise until I've researched the symptoms myself. Others would now have a dead pet and be grieving unnecessarily.
I strongly object to the level of care given by vets now. PTS should be a last resort, not a casual remark given curtly to a concerned owner.
I saw a vets now vet at 456 Hagley Road West, Oldbury B68 0DL on 4/7/2007 at approximately midnight.
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I dont know the answer Swampy except to say they are outrageously expensive, a long way from anyone who does not live in a big place and can do very little that takes time cos they work out of PDSA buildings and have to vacate them early in the morning and all their patients have to be gone too.
PTS was also mentioned to me because it seems people went for that rather than pay out for treatment but in my case there was no time for treatment cos of the length of the journey and I had rung three times before I took Kocka there cos the person that answered the phone first said its gonna cost £100 just to come in and maybe your cat can wait till the morning.
I should have demanded to speak to the vet but did not have the knowledge that I have now, thanks to catchat and purrrs. I also had no transport but know had I been in London I would have gone to my vets other surgery by taxi as soon as I was worried about Kocka.
I think that the Vets that use Vets Now are in fairy land about this service and that includes my vet! >:( >:(
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Update: Polly is 101% better. She's running up and down stairs like a mountain goat and playing me up again. She seems better than before she was ill.
I'm so relieved.
Thanks for all your support, Polly sends her purrs too.
:thankyou:
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:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
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Great news all round :wow: