Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat Health & Behaviour => Health & Behaviour General => Topic started by: cathycat on March 01, 2014, 00:50:56 AM
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Hello.Im a newbie on here,please bear with me!Im just finding my way around and wondered if anyone could direct me to a thread or section about introducing 2 cats?Thankyou ;D
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:welcome: :welcome: :welcome: :welcome: :welcome:
If you check out the basic Cat Health & Behaviour » Health & Behaviour General » Basic Cat Care Guides there is loads of info.
This thread may be a good start : http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php/topic,4789.0.html
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Ask questions and we will try to help ;D
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Thankyou I will check out the thread link :)I adopted a 14 year old cat in October who I heard about was struggling with sanctuary/rescue life.He is adorable and very sweet and friendly.I did my research before having him as I already have an elderly cat and wanted to make sure I did the intro ductions properly but progress is slow.Eddie(new cat)is based in my spare room where he has all he needs-lots of comfy places to rest,toys,litter tray,food,water.Twice a day I let him have the run of the house for a couple of hours while Ellie(existing cat)goes in my bedroom and has a snooze on my bed.I do lots of scent swapping/food and bedding swapping and have afew food stations around the house as well as cat beds to show both cats that resourses are plentiful.Ive got Feliway plugged in in various places and I feed the cats either side of Eddies room door to associate each others scent with something nice-food!They are being shown lots of love and affection to help them feel secure.I should mention Eddie has settled in really well and loves people but is understandably wary of Ellie.
So far things are going ok.Im doing this very slowly as both cats are elderly and don't want to stress them too much.Today Eddie got out of his room while it was Ellies turn to have the run of the house.Ellie stayed on the chair she was sitting on and did alittle tail twitching but made no sound or other movement.Obviously she watched him very closely!After watching them for 15 minutes as all seemed ok, I lured Eddie back to his room.It was scarey but happily uneventful.
The thing is im not sure what to do next.Today was fairly calm and I want to build on this but not jeapodise anything.I don't want to make a mistake and put us back afew weeks.I aware of being lulled into a false sense of security.I love both cats and am commited to both of them.I don't expect them to be buddies-just to live in the same house as stress free as possible.How can I move things along?
Sorry for the long post :)
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it sounds like it's going well, and their meeting went well!
Since there were no mishaps I would continue having longer supervised meetings. let us know how they get on and pics please??? :wow:
I have had to do it recently introducing a nut job 1 year old to two 3.5 yr olds - I am sure two older cats would be a lot easier! good luck x
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It sounds good so far and agree with emmy ;D ;D
Patience, yours , is at the centre of introductions
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Thankyou for your replies both of you.My main worry isuppose is missing a warning sign and it results in chasing or worse.Eddie is so fearful of Ellie and I feel I really need to build up his confidence although he is so much better than when I first had him.At the sanctuary he shared a small room with 4 other cats and his way of avoiding them was to sleep in the litter tray :scared:He took to sleeping on a cat bed very quickly when he came to me!Before sanctuary life he live in a house with 24 other cats and so im hoping that although he isn't an only cat my elderly girl Ellie wont be impossible for him to get used to.Thanks again your input is really reassuring as this is all very new to me :thanks:
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I think you would normally notice warning signs, and you can tell when one is getting agitated as well!
I know you can read about how to do it and it seems straight forward but slow... but when you actually have to do it it is quite stressful making sure the new one is feeling at home but the other(s) don't feel like they are being left out either!
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Thats very true Emmmy-Lou Im very aware of how Ellie is feeling and a couple of months after we got Eddie,Ellie was hospitalised for a week with a horrible mouth infection so when she came home we had to stop the preintroduction stuff for awhile while she settled back in,so basically had to start from the beginning again.Iwill have another go at having them in the same room again tomorrow for abit longer.I will just play it by ear.Last time Ellie was resting on a chair so will wait until shes relaxed again before attempting it.Thanks Emmmy-Lou
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It's always a bit nerve wracking, and already very good advice given here on top of the information you've already garnered yourself and put into practice. We also have had to do this within the last 6 months, although in our case it was between two relatively young cats, and we were blessed that the youngest cat has a wisdom beyond his years, and understood introductions needed to go slowly, with him on his very bestest behaviour. :innocent: (none of that bestest behaviour now :evillaugh:)
Your heart is bound to be in your mouth, but progress so far seems extremely encouraging. :) The fact that they haven't been vocal and bristling is a real step in the right direction at the point when Eddie made his unscheduled appearance around Ellie.
How heartbreaking that he used to sit in his litter tray. A sign of a very distressed cat. His world must have undergone a spectacular about turn. Am so pleased you've been able to offer him a home with you and Ellie.
Hope Ellie's mouth is a lot more comfortable now. :)
Just a thought - some of us have done very well with Pet remedy plug ins, as an alternative to feliway, but having said that, it sounds like the Feliway is working, so I think more of the same seems to be the order of the day. Well done on your sensible instincts! :hug:
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Thanks Paddysmum.We had another short meeting with the cats yesterday evening as Ellie was relaxed and Eddie hadn't been out of his room as much as usual.It went well again.Ellie "swore"quietly for a second but she did play with me briefly infront of Eddie and Eddie was about to play but changed his mind.Eddie did tend to stare at Ellie probably as he was abit scared.Would Ellie perseve that as confrontational?I wasn't sure so I lured Eddie back to his room again after about 5 minutes.Im wondering if im being overcautious.
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You have good instincs sp lol..........slow slow slow is much better than rushing things and sounds like poor Eddie has had a horrible life till now.
Young Lupin is bold until Sasa swears at him and then he will creep round me to avoid her..........he is 3 and she is 15/16 and girl cats are always in charge I think :innocent:
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:shy: I suspect Ellie might not have been swearing, just giving a verbal warning to her new companion not to push his luck. I think you're right to monitor the situation and to take things slowly, but I also think that the indications for their ultimate relationship seems to bode well. :)
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Thanks Gill and Sue your thoughts are appreciated.Ellie will definitely be incharge!!Shes that kinda gal but shes a sweetie really. :Luv:She loved my other cat,Harvey who sadly went missing last summer-another old boy of 15. :'(I didn't do a meeting yesterday as I had family over and it wasn't really possible but will have another go today.
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Ive done 2 more "meetings" since my last post and they went really well.The second meeting Ellie played with me infront of Eddie and Eddie seemed less tense.Neither cat made a sound.Ive still got some way to go but it looks promising.Is there anything more I can do during these cat meetings apart from watching closely and playing with them individually if either cat wants to play?
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I think you are doing all you can and the cats will have to take the next step :hug: :hug:
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I agree with Gill - you're doing everything sensibly, so more of the same, I think - perhaps try to relax a little mroe around them, and they will take their cue from you. :hug: :hug: If you behave as if you dont perceive eiterh of them as a threat to the other, they will pick up your signals accordingly. :)
[says I, who was every bit as anxious back then as you are now ;) :hug:]
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It sounds like these cats are doing well. You have a good plan, I wish all new cats where introduced as sympathetically as these two! I would echo Sue though and try and relax too! I think you are maybe so worried about it 'all going wrong' that you are finding it stressful. If the worse happens and they do chase then it should only be a step back and while its so much better if they don't its not the end of the possible relationship with these cats.
cats don't actually like to fight and it seems like these two older cats know all about 'cat stuff' already. As long as you keep access to two safe places for them both (so the bedroom for Ellie and the spare room for Eddie?) they will divide the house between themselves if they do not want to go so far as to buddy up together. Staring is more that Eddie is not relaxed with Ellie and without other 'aggressive' body language Ellie should not perceive this as a threat.
good luck xxx
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Had a brilliant day with the cats today!!They had a "meeting"and it went sooo well and lasted about 2 hours.Eddie was nervous but managed to relax abit and closed his eyes on the sofa sat with me.Ellie was fantastic.She played lots,lay down on the floor exposing her tummy :)and just seemed generally accepting of the situation.Eddie is "recovering" at the moment in his room and is abit uptight but ok.Hes happy to stay there for now.I might just let him out without Ellie being there tomorrow.Im so proud of them both today. :wow:
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Wonderful ;D
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What good news. It's all shaping up very positively. :)
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It's lovely to hear of them getting on so well ;D
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Thankyou.Ive been ill and haven't been able to do anything since Friday except let Eddie out on his own while Ellies been asleep on my bed.Will probably do another meet tomorrow.Fingers crossed it goes well again.
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Sorry to hear you've been poorly cathy, and hoping you feel better very soon. :hug:
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Thankyou Sue :)I have the cats out together at the moment.At the beginning of the meet Eddie did his usual hiss.Ellie actually invited him to play but hes wary of her so sat still.Im at the stage where I can let them both have free range of the house and let them do their own thing for afew hours but I need to watch them incase of any problems and initially their senses are heightened and need play distraction but I feel weve come a long way quite quickly.Eddie just needs to learn now that Ellies not going to hurt him.Hes doing so well as we think he was bullied at his last home and possibly at the sanctuary which is why he slept in the communal litter tray there.
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Cathy, I think that's the very telling reminder - that he used to sleep in the litter box at the shelter. That's about as demoralised as a cat can get, so I think his progress with Ellie is just amazing in such a relatively short space of time. :) :hug:
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That's very true Sue.When I think about that I feel tearful :'(The first thing he did when he came home here was flop onto my lap and fall into a deep sleep-he was so tired and seemed to know he was safe and could relax.Makes his progress all the more remarkable knowing the rubbish time hes had most or all of his 14 years.When he came to me he had a thyroidectomy and much needed dental within a month too.He was also dirty-understandably and he adored being brushed and brushed-like he had never been pampered before!He still LOVES his daily brush :)As you can probably tell hes loved VERY much now. :Luv:
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Eddie is just doing so well and the progress has been really quick ;D ;D
Misa and Sasa came here and first time they met was in the car in their carriers and misa with his terrible background got on with her straight away but spemt most of his time hiding under the recliner but he loved strokes.
sasa took 7 years to allow me to stroke her and now she pesters me on the stairs cos its only on the stairs or landing she allows strokes.
So keep up the great work
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Thanks Gill.They are such remarkable animals aren't they?Interesting to hear about your two.At the sanctuary,sharing Eddies room was a youngish female called Poppy.She hadn't adapted to sanctuary life and stayed in her bed the whole time-hissing if approached.I wanted to adopt her but thought it may be Eddies last chance being an old boy but I kept an eye on the website to see if she was still there.Last week it said she was rehomed so I rang the sanctuary and they said she had a lovely home,was happy settled and PLAYING!!!Im so pleased for her. ;D
Anyway I will just keep going with this.Thankyou so much everyone whos posted.Your support has really been appreciated.Its taken 5 months for us to get this far but its so worth it seeing the progress made,especially since having help on Purrs. :thanks: :thanks:
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Had a meet for about an hour this morning and Ellie was quite tense.Eddie tends to sit near or on me because hes scared during their time together and she obviously doesn't like this.I spent abit of time with her afterwards,reassuring her which she really liked.I realise she may be abit jealous too so will be mindful of this.They both need so much reassurance and im more than happy to provide this but sometimes need to be in two places at once!I guess some meetings will be more successful than others as its still such early days.
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Yes, very important to make an equal fuss of both, Cathy. We found that when we adopted Moray. Naturally being a young kitten, he wanted lots of cuddles and reassurance, which made Tinks a bit stand offish. It didnt last for too long (longer than I wanted, but as I said earlier, I think I was also exceptionally lucky with the cats in question!).
I took inspiration from Pav, who had been in an identical situation some weeks earlier, and seeing her two cats cuddled up together gave me something to aim for. Maybe Ellie and Eddie may never be that close, but I still think that where you're at now is an incredibly positive achievement. :hug:
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Agree cats are remarkable and time is the thing and patience and also giving all the same amount of time if possible.
Also so wonderful that cats who are having a hard time in one situation do so well when that situation is changed.
Some however have long memories like Sasa and Misa and have never fully shaken off their bad experiences sadly..............they are terrified of other people and when Misa goes to vets he is panting with heart racing so Gareth can never really seem him as he is. Sasa just freezes!
Lupin who has never been treated badly ever is like a crazy cat with Gareth, and just attacks and growls and generally behaves loopy! Think he remembers being neutered :innocent:
Keep going Cathy you have done a wonderful job so far and even if they are never best friends they will live together happily side by side ;D ;D
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I second what has been said - you are doing a great job, just keep doing as you are. It's lovely to hear of cats blossoming when they get even a bit of love ;D
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Eddie seems to have decided its safer upstairs and wont come down this evening.He seems to be becoming abit more fearful so I have just left his door open and he is sitting in his bedroom while Ellie is downstairs playing with me.If Ellie settles he may venture down but if not at least he has the option and isn't shut in his room.I totally understand his fear but hope that one day he will be able to move around the house freely as Ellie does.Ellies having a lovely time though with her catnip toys!
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Sounds like maybe he feels a little overwhelmed, and safer upstairs. Cat body language is very subtle when communicating with other cats, and it's not always easy to pick up on the signs a cat will detect. If you do exactly as you've done, and leave his door ajar, he can make the decision whether its safe to come down or not, depending how brave he feels.
It may even be that if he heard interesting noises, such as you and Ellie sharing some play time, he would venture out to investigate and watch. Or, conversely, if everything is nice and quiet, he may venture out to see how that's been achieved, and to share in it.
I know what I'm like when I have to share my home - we had family move back from Spain around 4 years ago, lock stock and barrel. Their rental house in the UK fell through, so I ended up with five of them, two of us, and our dog and cat all packed into our small 3 bed house. I was dreadful. I prowled and hissed and spat like any cat. I retreated to my bedroom, trying to seek some quiet time, only to find the door would open, a head would pop round the door, and I'd get "Grandma - can I sit and watch TV with you?"
:-:
I'm very fond of my family, but being in such proximity in a small space tried my patience and my nerves to breaking point. The more it was forced on me, the more my fur stood on end, so to speak.
The main thing is between Ellie and Eddie, no fences need to be rushed, and it will take as long as it takes. They're not fighting - they're just wary. :hug: :hug:
(Hope Eddie has a catnip toy just in case he wants to have a sneaky little play on his own time.) ;) :)
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Yes Sue I can see what you mean.I think I overdid the meeting yesterday and have learnt from that.Eddie has got an array of toys but I think only plays with me.When he first came I don't think he had ever been played with-not for a long time anyway as he looked really puzzled when I initiated play but it could also have been that he was simply getting used to his new situation.Thanks Sue for your post Im not going to do a meeting today and just see how the cats feel tomorrow.
Sorry for all the posts but its so good to be able to ask when im not sure about something!Dont know what id do without Purrs right now!Many thanks again :thanks:
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Dont be sorry for the posts its great to hear how things are going ;D ;D
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Dont be sorry for the posts its great to hear how things are going ;D ;D
Wholeheartedly agree. That's what the forum is all about - to share information, and to support members where we can. (and to have fun along the way :))
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Just a little update.I haven't done another meet since Wednesday as I thought the cats(esp Eddie)could do with a break as I think Eddie became abit overwhelmed during the last meet.Hes really reluctant to come out of his room at the moment.Hes lost abit of confidence and I think there must have been some negative communication between the cats which I missed on Wednesday.Hes also become abit distant.
Ellie has a new scratching post in the living room which she sits by or on a lot when shes not playing with it!I think she finds it comforting and something that smells exclusively of her!As I type shes sort of pole dancing on it!!!
I did wonder if Eddie was maybe feeling unwell.I might get him checked at the vet to be sure.
Im not too sure what else to do at this stage especially as Eddie wants to stay put.Im worried that we have gone back afew steps because I missed something or had them out together for too long.If anyone has any ideas theyd be much appreciated.Thankyou
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cathycat - i really think you are doing everything right. your cautious and sympathetic way is perfect for managing the introduction of two cats.
just calmbreathe and try and stop worrying :hug: there is no rush here. cats live a lot shorter time than us so i don't know why they take soooooo much time to get used to things! ..but they do :)
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Patience and time is all there is and yes sometimes there are backward steps but stop worrying and take the lead from the cats now :hug: :hug:
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Sooooo, huge steps since I last posted :)Eddie seems to have overcome some of his fear and will even walk past Ellie when hes feeling especially brave.When im home to supervise I leave the bedroom doors open and they can come and go as they want(Eddie doesn't use the cat flap yet but has access to the whole house)Ellie seems to have accepted Eddie although needs plenty of reassurance and Eddie-although still nervous-isn't "tied"to his room anymore.There is the odd hiss but its just a reminder from each cat not to come too close.Im amazed at the progress they've made this last week and am so proud of the cats.Its like they've worked hard to overcome their worries and are trying to work out a way of living together.Ive just been watching and reassuring but they've done the rest.It will be alittle while before I can go out and leave them alone together but I know that will happen.I cant wait to show Eddie the back garden and be able to leave the back door open for them in the warmer weather.Ellie loves outside in the summer but hates the winter weather so stays in all the time :)
Its been a long 5-6 months but we are definitely getting there.Yay!!!
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;D Yay!!!! Sounds like great progress Cathy!
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Thankyou Sue.Just one thing that Im wondering about.Eddie was very affectionate from when he first came here until about 2 weeks ago.This didn't co-inside with their first meeting or anything significant.Hes now very distant.Could this be down to the stress of it all?
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Have you been able to get close enough to him to check him over? Make sure he hasn't got anything physically wrong, as cat's will try very hard to conceal any sign of weakness/illness. Might be worth just giving him a gentle physical to make sure he doesnt have any wounds or bites you're not aware of. I'm sure he won't have, but it's worth looking.
It might be that he's wary of upsetting Ellie generally, and so has become more reserved as a result. On the other hand, he may be feeling a bit more confident about his surroundings, so less need to have as much reassurance - being around him you'll know which it's more likely to be.
I think I would make a point of seekinghim out when he's having some "alone" time, and just gently instigating a little affectionate touch. Maybe just using a closed hand to stroke him, and not overdoing it. One touch is enough to let a cat know that you're thinking of him/her - even just popping your head into a room they're in and saying "Hi" counts to a cat. They don't always welcome being handled or picked up, although as you say, Eddie was more free with his affection before, so might welcome a little time alone with you.
Tinks is very wary of affection - he hates being picked up, he never sits on a lap etc, but he does love it if you go up to him when he's on his own, and give the base of his tail a little scritch, or behind his ears. He gets a big silly grin on his face and purrs like crazy, but often gets overcome with his own daring and scampers off looking embarrassed, yet hugely pleased with himself.
Last night for example, I got up in the middle of the night, and he was lying on the floor next to the blanket box. When I came back to bed, I gently picked him up and popped him on the bottom of the bed. he at once snuggled down and lay across my foot, but sometimes he needs that little bit of encouragement. And sometimes he just won't countenance any kind of proximity. We know he loves us just the same, so we can afford to give him the space he needs when he wants it.
I wonder if Eddie is maybe feeling the same? Tinks wasnt always our cat (like Eddie hasnt always been your cat) and even though he moved in with us as a consequence of his being our then cat's best buddy, he's very much "lead cat" in our house in terms of the fact that Moray joined us after Tinks arrival. However, Moray's very definitely "in charge" and I wonder if that's how it is with Eddie and Ellie?
Just a few thoughts to ponder.
The main thing is, they seem to be tolerating each other's space pretty well. Possibly the price that will be paid for that is Eddie being less friendly. When we had Paddy, we introduced a kitten when he was two years old. Paddy became more distant too. He tolerated the interloper, but he spent much more time outside, and was far less affectionate with us than he'd previously been. When we lost Flynn, Paddy became much friendlier again, although he was never what you'd call a lap cat, bless his heart - he just liked to know we were there if he needed us. :Luv: It wasnt until the last 5 years of his life, and following a stroke, that he would seek us out, and sit next to us. That was more for reassurance, as his stroke left him deaf and somewhat disorientated for a time.
Cats are complex creatures, are they not? The best we can do is observe and learn their o wn preferences, habits and charateristics, and try to ease things along where we can. You're already doing that. :hug:
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Thankyou so much Sue for your interesting post its given me a lot to think about.Ive checked him over and he seems ok but it could be something I cant detect so ive got him booked into the vet tomorrow just to double check.
Ive noticed today that hes even more distant when Ellies in the room as far as I can tell.This would be consistant with his behaviour when Ellie was hospitalised for a week at the end of last year.He was even more affectionate than usual then and was gradually more relaxed as the week went on until Ellies return although he continued to be affectionate-just less relaxed.He is of course out of his room a lot more now and in the same room as Ellie much of the time.He has very gradually become more distant and I probably didn't notice the change at first which is why it didn't seem to coincide with their meetings.If this is the case I wonder if he will feel more "cuddly" again when he feels more settled with the situation?
This is just a theory and it could be that he doesn't feel the "need" to display affection now that hes settled and his scent is everywhere meaning he feels much more confident in general.
As you say they are very complex creatures-fascinating and sometimes infuriating!It doesn't matter one bit if hes affectionate/not affectionate-hes a cat so he will be what he wants to be!As long as hes happy that's the main thing and im just relieved that he and Ellie are working out a way of living together.Thanks again Sue :thanks:
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Very sensible - I hope the vet visit goes smoothly. :hug: Am sure there won't be anything wrong with him,but it'll do no harm to get him checked and may serve to put your mind at ease that there isn't an unknown physical cause for his reserve.
Assuming there isn't I would just continue to monitor the situation. He's ot hiding out in his room, and there've been no overt displays of aggression between the two, so I suspect it may just be he's watching his P's and q's and making sure he doesn't overstep the mark which might result in him getting a ticking off or a cold shouler from Ellie.
And you're right - as long as they're both contented cats, that's the impotrant thing. :) :catplay2:
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Very complex indeed and Lupin sounds like Tinky and Paddy ands will rub round my legs to get something but otherwise ignores me totally.
He doesnt do purrs, have never heard one, he hates being stroked, just trying one at side of face where whiskers are but only one at atime or he will go for me.
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I am just catching up with this as wasnt on here last week.......
When Evie arrived at ours and was allowed to roam with the existing two in the house, it did uset Denzel in that way. Denzel used to sit on my lap when I was watching TV or snuggle in bed, but didn't for a few weeks.
Eventually things returned to 'normal' tho, although at first only when Evie was upstairs, but now Denzel will happily come into the room for cuddles regardless :Luv:
Hope this is the same in your case and that Eddie is soon after more attention? :Luv:
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Thankyou Gill and Emmmy-Lou.The more I watch the cats the more im convinced Eddie is being distant because he is still abit wary of Ellie and he doesn't want to upset her.Im hoping that its a similar situation to yours with Denzel,Emmmy-Lou and he will settle down again.Im just grateful that they are able to mix and I don't have to keep shutting Eddie in his room.I now have to work out how I manage the cat flap as only Ellie goes out at the moment and I feel that I want Eddie to be even more settled with things before he can go out too.Hes not that bothered at the moment but is starting to show interest in outdoors.
I need to give Eddie more time to get used to Ellie and his new freedom.Hes got a lot to take in at the moment bless him :)
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Cathy, one possibility with the flap situation is to get a Sureflap Dual Scan flap. They're about £65 (cant remember exactly what we paid for ours, but it was around that mark) - it permits you to set the flap so one cat can have indoor/outdoor access, and yet it will exclude your other cat from getting out. It's very easy to change back and forth between the modes, so when Eddie's ready to go out, it wont create any problem. We did this when we acquired Moray. Tinks was able to come and go whereas Moray was confined to indoors only for the first few weeks.
It will fit the size hole that your average Staywell flap leaves behind, and it has one screw either side in terms of fixing.
Gill, Tinks will let us stroke and touch him, he just gets scared of affection. He's never aggressive. I suspect Lupin is just so eaten up with the desire to come and go freely as the others do that he's expressing his dissatisfaction in the only way he knows how. :hug: :hug:
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Thanks Sue :thanks:I have one on order!Just what I need-I hadn't thought of a microchip cat flap.
So the cats are out together all day now.Luckily im working from home a lot so im here to supervise them as they still need watching but they are doing well.They don't go into each others rooms and use them as "time-out"spaces.The rest of the time they are in the same room.They both LOVE play so will play with me with the same toy.Eddie has discovered where Ellies food bowl is in the kitchen so im having to be careful as he will eat from it given the chance and she understandably hates this :(There is still some hissing and abit of growling sometimes but I just make sure I distract and reassure them both and theyre ok.It will still be alittle while before I can leave them JUST incase they get too annoyed with each other.I put Eddie in his room at night still but im sure that wont be for too much longer.Hes so much more confident and happy if still abit distant.
Thankyou so much to everyone who has posted.Ive appreciated the help and support and I now have 2 cats who are learning to live together and although we still have alittle way to go I know now they will be able to live happily in the same house in time :thanks: ;D