Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat Health & Behaviour => Health & Behaviour General => Topic started by: cats3dotcom on January 06, 2011, 22:58:07 PM
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I have an 11 1/2 year old cat that has developed IBD over the past 6 months. :sick: She has had 2 x full blood screening/ biochem and ultrasound of the abdomen and in December she also had an endoscopic biopsy. She has low B12 and low folate. The scan showed the adomen had general thickening of the intestines and duodenum. The biopsy showed that the duodenum looked grossly hyperemic and inflammed. She has chronic Lymphocytic Plasmocytic Gastristis. She is on Metrobidizole, Prednisolone, Famotidine B12 injedctions and Folic Acid. She is only able to stomach cooked chicken and although I have tried a hypoallergic diet over 24 hours it brought back the chronic diarhoea. She has lost over a 1kg of weight in 9 months and now weighs only 3kg, She has very little appetite and seems to be shrinking before my eyes.
Does anyone know anything about this disease that can help me? I am going to see a holistic vet next week...
Thanks :thanks:
Jan
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Sorry, have no idea about IBD in cats :shy:
Bumping this up though in case anyone has experience they can share :hug:
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Just re-read your post and saw she can only stomach cooked chicken. Has she tried Royal Canin sensitivity pouches (chicken & rice)? My cat had a prolonged bout of diarrhoea (not caused by IBD) and is doing very well on the RC pouches, initially I was cooking chicken for him every day for several weeks so know how time consuming it can be compared to feeding a commercial food :hug:
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Sorry to hear about your puss. My two elderly colourpoint persians both have IBD Oska and Sassie [brother and sister]. They both have B12 injections and Prednisolone and they have both put weight on since being diagnosed. Oska then started having problems with his joints so the vet wanted to give him some metacam but this can't be given with Prednisolone. I have 5 other cats so its difficult to feed them a different diet so by this time I had changed them all from Technical to Origen and Bozita wet hoping that it would help as a better quality food with less cereal etc. We stopped the Prednisolone but Oska had an explosive relapse! So he soon went back on the Prednisolone! As well as the pouches RC do trays as well which Sassie recently had as she's only recently been diagnosed with it, unlike Oska who has had it for years.
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Jan, could you continue giving her the chicken with the addition of a supplement to balance it properly? That way, she could still eat something that agrees with her, and it will be a balanced diet too. There's a sup called Felini Complete which is just added to raw or cooked meat http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/supplements_specialty_cat_food/fur_skin_supplements/155860
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Just re-read your post and saw she can only stomach cooked chicken. Has she tried Royal Canin sensitivity pouches (chicken & rice)? My cat had a prolonged bout of diarrhoea (not caused by IBD) and is doing very well on the RC pouches, initially I was cooking chicken for him every day for several weeks so know how time consuming it can be compared to feeding a commercial food :hug:
Yes she has tried nearly all the sensitivity diets, she ate RC pouches or trays for about a week and then wouldn't eat either of them. So back onto the cooked chicken, but tonight she is even refusing the chicken. I gave her the wrong dosage of appetitie stimulents this morning and also a famotodine to help with the nausea, but she is crying all the time tonight. I spoke to the vet and she just said it would probably make her sleepy. She is obviously in distress! I have an appointment on Tuesday to see an holistic vet...roll on Tuesday!
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Jan, could you continue giving her the chicken with the addition of a supplement to balance it properly? That way, she could still eat something that agrees with her, and it will be a balanced diet too. There's a sup called Felini Complete which is just added to raw or cooked meat http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/supplements_specialty_cat_food/fur_skin_supplements/155860
Cheers Gillian...will give it a go....might give you a call later....xx
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Hypoallergenic foods are not guaranteed not to provoke an allergic reaction, they are just less likely to as the most common allergens are not present. Many have large numbers of ingredients so it can be really difficult to isolate a possible cause. :hug: Are you leaving the fat/ skin on the chicken? That will provide essential saturated fats and will help boost the calorie content of what is being fed. Chicken leg meat is higher in taurine and fat than breast.
You might also try a little raw offal, my Noah will pick that out of his bowl first if it is bloody. :sick: Ideally you would get chicken offal, but heart is difficult to find. The proteins in raw meat are different structurally to that in cooked meat so *hopefully* there won't be any reaction. Do only serve small quantities tho as liver especially is high in certain nutrients and you don't want an upset tum from a change of diet!
My last thought is has your vet advised you to give probiotics (friendly bacteria)? These are important for immune function, for absorbing nutrients from food - including B vitamins IIRC - and can easily be depleted where there is a digestive problem. It's not a cure obviously, just help with managing the situation. In humans omega-3 supplements (fish body oils) are effective in IBS/ IBD as they have anti-inflammatory properties; please check with your vet before giving this as it can have implications for certain medications and felines have different requirements as to fats than we do.
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I think you might be able to get chicken offal in PAH?
I know supermarkets used to sell tubs of chicken livers but I never buy offal so not sure if they still do.
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Chicken livers are freely available, never seen heart but you might get them at a Halal butcher (depends where you live obviously). No idea what happens to the hearts as I got some from Food4Cats when they were still in business and they are large enough to bother with! Morrisons stock ox and pig heart (again depends where you live).
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Hypoallergenic foods are not guaranteed not to provoke an allergic reaction, they are just less likely to as the most common allergens are not present. Many have large numbers of ingredients so it can be really difficult to isolate a possible cause. :hug: Are you leaving the fat/ skin on the chicken? That will provide essential saturated fats and will help boost the calorie content of what is being fed. Chicken leg meat is higher in taurine and fat than breast.
You might also try a little raw offal, my Noah will pick that out of his bowl first if it is bloody. :sick: Ideally you would get chicken offal, but heart is difficult to find. The proteins in raw meat are different structurally to that in cooked meat so *hopefully* there won't be any reaction. Do only serve small quantities tho as liver especially is high in certain nutrients and you don't want an upset tum from a change of diet!
My last thought is has your vet advised you to give probiotics (friendly bacteria)? These are important for immune function, for absorbing nutrients from food - including B vitamins IIRC - and can easily be depleted where there is a digestive problem. It's not a cure obviously, just help with managing the situation. In humans omega-3 supplements (fish body oils) are effective in IBS/ IBD as they have anti-inflammatory properties; please check with your vet before giving this as it can have implications for certain medications and felines have different requirements as to fats than we do.
Porsche was given Royal Canin hypoallergenic dried food on Wednesday but this brought back the diarhoea. :-:
I am giving her chcicken breast, but will try chaning it to chcicken leg and leave the skin on.
No the vet hasn't advised probiotics...I am now going to wait until Tuesday until I see the holistic vet and get his opinion, he seemed very positive that with the right food in cats with IBD it can definitely have a marked change
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Lacto B is a good probiotic but is a very fine powder that needs mixing with food. I think the cheapest place for it is still Vet Uk.
It sorted Frantas tummy out after very strong meds made it very bad but it took months, especially as he needed the abds again about every 3 months.
I believe as it is a probiotic it can be taken all the time.
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Lacto B is a good probiotic but is a very fine powder that needs mixing with food. I think the cheapest place for it is still Vet Uk.
It sorted Frantas tummy out after very strong meds made it very bad but it took months, especially as he needed the abds again about every 3 months.
I believe as it is a probiotic it can be taken all the time.
The only problem with mixing probiotic in foods is that she won't eat all her food anyway, so I'm hoping the holistci vet will come up with a liquid form that she can drink...but thanks for the info
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what about pro-kaolin? Sassie had that recently and we found that it was easy to give as she found it very tasty
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what about pro-kaolin? Sassie had that recently and we found that it was easy to give as she found it very tasty
Another friend of mine mentioned that...have it on a long list of things to ask...thanks
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With lacto B it doesnt matter if they eat all their food or not, its not like abs or something.
My cats dont eat all their food and i just give thenm a little bit in each meal so over the day they dont get more than they should.
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With lacto B it doesnt matter if they eat all their food or not, its not like abs or something.
My cats dont eat all their food and i just give thenm a little bit in each meal so over the day they dont get more than they should.
Thanks Gill...I will keep this in mind...
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The only problem with mixing probiotic in foods is that she won't eat all her food anyway, so I'm hoping the holistci vet will come up with a liquid form that she can drink...but thanks for the info
Probiotic bacteria are not stable in a liquid base, the freeze dried stuff contains far more viable bacteria (billions compared to a couple of million if you are lucky). Plus a liquid base will have to contain some nutrients to keep the bacteria alive and make the solution palatable to the cat, at a time when you don't want to be adding any more possible triggers to the diet. I'd be inclined to mix the dose in a small portion of wet, wait until that is eaten and then put down the rest of the wet. But, as Gill says, any amount really will be beneficial if antibiotics have been necessary as that wipes out the good guys as well as the bad.
Be interesting to hear what the holistic vet recommends, but dry food wouldn't be my first choice as it contains way too many ingredients. In humans the correct protocol for food allergy is an exclusion diet - one foodstuff introduced at a time until the culprit is found. Even with IBD it's usual to remove all possible triggers then introduce back one by one if desired. Pretty much what you have been doing with the chicken! ;D If you don't want to go the raw route, it's easier with commercial wet to find a food that is grain free AND only one protein source (i.e. from one animal) so you can be more confident what is and what is not provoking a reaction. :hug:
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The only problem with mixing probiotic in foods is that she won't eat all her food anyway, so I'm hoping the holistci vet will come up with a liquid form that she can drink...but thanks for the info
Probiotic bacteria are not stable in a liquid base, the freeze dried stuff contains far more viable bacteria (billions compared to a couple of million if you are lucky). Plus a liquid base will have to contain some nutrients to keep the bacteria alive and make the solution palatable to the cat, at a time when you don't want to be adding any more possible triggers to the diet. I'd be inclined to mix the dose in a small portion of wet, wait until that is eaten and then put down the rest of the wet. But, as Gill says, any amount really will be beneficial if antibiotics have been necessary as that wipes out the good guys as well as the bad.
Be interesting to hear what the holistic vet recommends, but dry food wouldn't be my first choice as it contains way too many ingredients. In humans the correct protocol for food allergy is an exclusion diet - one foodstuff introduced at a time until the culprit is found. Even with IBD it's usual to remove all possible triggers then introduce back one by one if desired. Pretty much what you have been doing with the chicken! ;D If you don't want to go the raw route, it's easier with commercial wet to find a food that is grain free AND only one protein source (i.e. from one animal) so you can be more confident what is and what is not provoking a reaction. :hug:
Porsche had an hours appointment with the holistic vet today. He was so encouraging. Said I'm kind of part way there putting her on the chicken and after todays appointment I have added a pinch of Pet Plus for cats, and I continue this till Friday, when he will call for a stool report. If she scores 9 out of 10 (10 being hard) in her stools then next week I am to add B complex and Bio-Kult Priobiotic. Advises that she might also like rabbit (organic if possible). He is going to keep in phone contact with me twice or more a week, and if I need him just to call. She has to stay on her preds and folic acid and famotidine, but as she feels better, he says that the western vet will reduce her meds. He will be emailing all the info over to the western vet so she knows what has advised. I hope this works for Porsche...I will let you know as the days go on.
Thanks for all you help and advise.
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Thanks for updating Cats3dotcom, and hope you will do so again as others will learn from your experiences. Because I am a health geek I Googled 'Pet Plus for Cats' ...
"Ingredients
Alfalfa, wheat grass and barley juice concentrates;
digestive enzymes protease, cellulase, amylase, and glucoamulase;
probiotics L. plantarum and L. acidophilus;
flaxseed and safflower petals;
garlic;
red beet fiber;
taurine;
and liver substance.
Probiotics
A single dose of Pet Plus contains the probiotics Lactobacillus acidophilus and Lactobacillus plantarum. Probiotics are already present in your pet's digestive tract, protecting her from hostile bacteria. Antibiotics and other drugs, dietary imbalance, or disease can destroy these organisms. Supplementation will restore or maintain them at healthy levels."
http://www.ehow.com/about_5232726_pet-plus-cats.html
Sounds like the combined knowledge of Purrs was on the right track! ;D
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I'm interested in the bio-kult. What is the cat dose?
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I'm interested in the bio-kult. What is the cat dose?
Porsche has been given one a day...but I don't know if that is anything to do with her weight?? If you are interested best to check with a holistic vet near you!!
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Thanks for updating Cats3dotcom, and hope you will do so again as others will learn from your experiences. Because I am a health geek I Googled 'Pet Plus for Cats' ...
"Ingredients
Alfalfa, wheat grass and barley juice concentrates;
digestive enzymes protease, cellulase, amylase, and glucoamulase;
probiotics L. plantarum and L. acidophilus;
flaxseed and safflower petals;
garlic;
red beet fiber;
taurine;
and liver substance.
Probiotics
A single dose of Pet Plus contains the probiotics Lactobacillus acidophilus and Lactobacillus plantarum. Probiotics are already present in your pet's digestive tract, protecting her from hostile bacteria. Antibiotics and other drugs, dietary imbalance, or disease can destroy these organisms. Supplementation will restore or maintain them at healthy levels."
http://www.ehow.com/about_5232726_pet-plus-cats.html
Sounds like the combined knowledge of Purrs was on the right track! ;D
Glad it was of some use...I will certainly keep in touch....and let you know how she is getting on...
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I have experience of 2 Somalis both developing acute enteritis in older age (common in Abys too ) -after all tests and various diets the only treatment that worked reasonably well was prednisilone daily to help with the inflammation as both passed blood too and (on vet's advice) Normacol granules from Chemist mixed with soft food.
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Porsche has had a real set back. The western vet had put her on Periactin (appetitie stimulent) as she hadn't put any weight on, sadly within 2 days she had CHRONIC diarrheoa....and I mean chronic!! So much so that she became dehydrated and her WBC was low, she became aneamic and her potassium was low. She was rushed into the veterinary hospital where she has been on a drip for the past 3 days. She is now okay and is back home. Is back on the Metronidizole along with Preds, Folic Acid and Famotidine. She is now eating well again which is nice to see and her stools are nornal. Boy this IBD is scary.....
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Normacol granules from Chemist mixed with soft food.
I was curious about Normacol so googled it. I was quite surprised that a vet would advise using it as it has a high sodium content. The veterinary version is peridale which is much better for cats I would have though - although it smells foul (the supposedly beef flavouring)
I have to say, Peridale is doing wonders for Lazarus' Megacolon - he hasn't missed a day since having it in his food (with plenty of extra water)
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At the time Peridale was unavailable -I've used Peridale years ago for Megacolon .
It was a one teaspoon dose daily but it did help -this was a last ditch attempt -he had been through all kinds of testing and treatment and it was sodium versus PTS -it gave him an extra year.