Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat Health & Behaviour => Health & Behaviour General => Topic started by: kitinboots on November 19, 2010, 16:17:13 PM
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:nice meet: hello everyone.
I just joined the forum looks great lots of great info too.
If i may ask for your help with my recenlty new kitten. I havent had the pleasure of a cat in the family for 9 or so years, but never a kitten before and i am trying to train him and i am sorry i have many questions even reading lots on this site as cats are individuals and sometimes not everything will suit all cats. I am used to bites bad bites and scratches from taking in and training biting 'vicious,killer' ferrets but kittens are different and you never stop learning.so here goes :tired:
I aquired 'kitty' (still working on name sadly as Yuki just dont feel right) at 8 weeks old, i didnt see the mother or father the lady brought him to me as a 'she' ,i was expecting to see or even chat to her again but it not happened,kitty came alone with no blanket or food toy nothing.
soon as me and kitty met it just felt right like it meant to be he was very curious and once in my arms after being nosey he cuddled to me and wouldnt let go not even back to the owner he put his head under my neck purred and went to sleep i felt i made the best friend ever.
he was very curious around the front room not showing any fear.used litter box and ate dry food i gave him and went to sleep in my arms.
he had perfect bill of health from my vet,first jab and flead/wormed.he is due for 2nd jab 2nd dec.
when he wants to cuddle and sleep he is the most perfect sweet cat in the world. but his biting is getting worse and has now starting attacking my face and head,i can tell he has been played with hands and fingers as toys and i discourage this.i use ignore method.now he is getting nasty. hes bitten my brother who visited and his mate.I rang the vet today and they gave me number for behaviourist who says its £105 for her to come out but as the vet gave me the number she should be covered by the cat insurance but i aint got my cirtificate for the cat till 2nd dec which is when he goes back for 2nd jab. mum witnessed kitty going for my head/face like alien does (grasps whole head and goes for face) and it really unnerved and frightened her,me well i frustrated but dont want to give up on him he only been here 5 weeks. I also have my 4 yr old nephew visit and now he is petrified.
he wont be ready to be nuetered till feb '11 and i am worried i wont be good enough to help him and his behaviour.
he also chews cardboard boxes when he has his mad hour razzing around he stops every now and again to chew not lightly but thruogh the cardboard box or on a toy or one of my nephews toys so could he be getting adult teeth through ?he will be 13 weeks (according to the lady i got him from) tomorow -satday. He also sounds like he grinds his teeth sometimes. I really feel he needs something he can chew and chew safely but am unsure of what. Also he follows me EVERYWHERE i go even the loo he sits outside the door and part howls and meaows tho it dont sound like a proper meaow like he never learnt it :'(
he is like jeckyll and hyde and i am worried but the vet isnt yet as its still early. :scared:
also his pupils seem to me to be large 90% of time he is awake and i not sure if this is a kitten thing or could possibly be a sign of an underlying illness with the behaviour .
He doesnt act timid or show easy pick up signs of being afraid of anything. he proudly struts around is very curious of everything in a fun way not a wary way.
I would be so grateful for help I am home basicly 24/7 as i have fibromyalgia so have plenty of time for him.
thankyou in advance
:thanks:
P.S sorry for the essay :-[
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:welcome: I am sure some of the experienced rescuers and professional breeders will be along soon to help you out. :hug:
They may wish to know what is happening immediately prior to the attacks. Might he feel 'ignored' (focussing on guests or activities of daily living)? Is playing getting out of hand? Are you 100% consistent with the time out method? What sort of playtime are you engaging in and does he have solo play toys on rotation? Have you tried anything to harness his mental energy, e.g. clicker training, hiding food etc.?
I've never had a kitten so my 'knowledge' has come from reading around Purrs and elsewhere on the net. A few thoughts .... separation anxiety (following you everywhere)? Food allergy/ intolerance (can cause behavioural issues, what brands are you feeding)?
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Hi :welcome: to Purrs,
I sounds tome like your little lad is just pushing his luck! He hasn't been properly sociaised and doesn't know good manners ... all things he would have learnt from his mum and litter mates. But don't worry .... he's till young and can taught to play nicely. If little lad starts to play rough and bite and scratch you need to stop him in his tracks ... this can be achived by blowing in his face. Alterantively you need to make a short sharpe noise ... the sort of noise kittens / cats make they are playing rough.
This thread may help. Scroll down to the Misdirected aggression section : http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php/topic,14320.0.html
This guide is also useful ... trimmed claws will reduce your risk of injury: http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php/topic,33470.0.html
And this is a good guide on toys ... http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php/topic,4798.0.html
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:welcome: to Purrs :wow:
Sounds like you have our Groucho's twin living with you. Even his voice sounds like Groucho (a bit like a feline Rod Stewart :) )
He came to us far too young too at 8 weeks and had not therefore been taught the rules by mum. They learn alot from mom between 8 and 12 weeks. He is now 19 weeks and bites and chews far less than he used to. He chewed through radio aerials, speakers wires.... but he's stopped that now. He also used to paw at my face and try and bite my nose. I'm convinced the blowing on his face helped a lot. Short sharp blast as if you mean business. Groucho hates it :sneaky: We are at the point now where I just make the blowing noise and he runs for it :innocent:
You need to set aside long and frequent play time sessions with toys on a stick or the red lazer dot toy is a good one so that you break the fingers as toys habit and wear him out. I honestly think your best bet is to get him a confident pal about same age or maybe a little older. 2 kittens are far easier to cope with than one
We are luckier than you as we have other cats that have learnt to fight back (well most of em, Fred is useless and continually gets chased by Groucho).
A word to the wise btw. Pics, esp when talking about tittentats, are sort required ;)
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Hi ;D and thankyou so much for replying .
I will answer the questions given as best i can first :)
feeling ignored? I personally dont think he could feel ignored its kinda impossible to ignore a fuzbutt lol if he wants time with me he comes to me and gets all the time he likes till he sleeps.eg, loving,petting,games,talking to him.we are basicly together all the time lol.
playtime? playtime exists of me playing with fishing rod toys,balls rolling them collecting them ,hiding them, i hide a ccrinkly sounding mouse which he loves and he goes find it soft toys which if he goes to bite when he gets very playfull i get these for him to take his agression out on so he can chew and scratch them as much as he likes and i move them about and throw them if he comes to my hands again.i also use them when he plays hide and seek he hides in a box or bag and i throw fatcat tedy to the box so he can play with him. he also likes to go off and play on his own to which i let him as i see it as he wants to play by himself so i read or come on the laptop, if he looks like he finished playing on his own but still wants playtime i play agin with fishing rod etc. it can get a bit difficult with fishing rods as he knows my hands are moving it so he likes to try get my hands at which point i stop till he goes back to the toy and i dangle and drag again.
I always stick to the ignore method when he bites every time as i do not know how else to stop it, i have been told tap him on nose but i can imagine this would only make him worse,i have tried blowing at him and it makes him go beserk and keeps coming back for a fight with harder nastier mood. I tried the little kitten 'ouch' type sound this morning as well as ignore after but he seems to find it amusin and comes back for more.he nearly gave me a lip piercing today lol. i have also tried the NO! as he does it but fails also. i have tried the holding him still for 10 seconds them letting him go but this fails also.
I have no idea what sets him off to the attack sometimes he is looking very content and lying there falling to sleep sitting up lol and BAM i get attacked. walking past he attacks but this i think is kitten learning to pounce on prey so when he does it i stand still or if a toy is near i roll it for him to chase.good thing is he is learning to keep claws in when he does that now.
sometimes when playing he seems to get urge to get nasty so i try distract it with toys.unless he shows the 'signs' (i mention below) he has even been cuddling and rubbing faces with me, starts purring lies down i dont have to move and BAM attack again.
the signs - he gives plenty of warning signs he is going to get in this mood apart from when it happens when he just woke up or just settling down as soon as ears go back ,fur goes up,eyes very wide and stares and tail is almost slapping against the floor I ignore,i did try stroking him couple times to see if he was scared and i could calm him down when he first came but he just bit so when i see him show those signs now its straight on ignore.
by 'ignore' i mean no eye contact,no talking,no movement. when he comes and wraps himself around my arms with claws in me and bits i do absolutly nothing just freeze then he will find a new spot so i will freeze again yes it hurts alot but i bite my tongue in hope.he does eventually walk off.
I have not tried clicker training i was thinking about it but when my nephew was here and making clicking noises with his mouth the cat run at him so i thought it may be bad idea??
He has one of thoe balls that you put treats in but i put kibble in it and it has to be rolled around to get food out.
he has dry food available 24/7 which is Go-cat kitten complete for cats up to 1 year and he has sashet of felix kitten meat at tea time time for us as he begs for our food and at night after a play to try what i read in a book where he goes nighttime prowl then calms down and gets meat like he has cought his prey.
i was worried he was getting too much but the vet said no thats good and he is only a little thin cat,tho i can see he is slowly getting shapely now he seemed very very thin at first now he looks very healthy i just hope he wont get fat tho the way he zooms and climbs he is like a cheetah cross lynx he should burn everything off LOL
I had a kitten bag free from the vets and it had hills kitten food in it , he loved the smell and i offered him a piece by hand and he actually took a chunk of me as he couldnt get this food down quick enough but about 2 and half hour later he seemed very hyperactive more than normal. he shredded the bag i had that it was in and the food just didnt even touch the sides and he growled and snared at me when i was clearing it up. normally he lets me stroke him and sit by him and hand feed him and lets me almost share like we both enjoyed food time and it was treat for him maybe but this hills food has now changed that apart from the meat sachets.
he also gets a litle kitten milk (its goats milk) every other day dialuted with water as he didnt drink hardly when i first got him till i got the kitten milk.
he gets as many playtimes with me as he likes , and also my brother and mate when they come visit play fishing rod with him as i have told them i need their help so absolutly NO finger play and they also do ignore method i do .
he has the spare room as a living room and playroom for us 2 if i cant always get downstairs so has multiple scratch posts and toys in that room and living room or his favourite toys i take up or down.
he is a house cat and sadly it not possible to have another cat in the house :(
i feel i am loosing the battle to help him at the mo but surely the loving cuddly kissy cant get close enough to me cat is a sign he will calm down the attacks?
thankyou in advance ;)
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:booboo: ops sorry i thought i made the pictures alot smaller than that :rofl: the first is yuki 12 weeks the one below asleep on me is 8 weeks hour after he got here :Luv2:
thankyou for those links to look at i am scared to cut his claws even tho i did ferrets claws for over 10years on my own LOL the vet wouldnt cut them other week but i may ask the groomer when i go back to help me just get the confidence and make sure i not hurting him as i cant see the quick that well on him :Luv:
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What a lovely looking little boy he is :Luv: :Luv: :Luv: and how well you look after him :)
He's only 13 weeks so don't despair. He will be completely different I'm sure in a few months time, hopefully a little quieter :hug: and hope your patience lasts that long. Kittens are demons in gorgeous little coats of course :evillaugh: Sounds like you are doing all the right things.
I'm not a fan of Go Cat due the the high carbohydrate content and, if you can afford to, would suggest a better quality dry food with a higher meat content. Groucho has Royal Canin kitten food which I refer to as kitty crack as cats seem to love it so much. Sounds like the Hills kitten food is pretty good too from your kitten's reaction :)
If he doesn't tend to drink much a good way to get moisture in him is to feed more wet food. 4 smaller meals a day (say 1/2 pouch each time) is better than 2 meals at his age as he only has a small tummy. Overfeeding shouldn't be an issue at all at his age. Need to watch more for weight gain from around 18 months or so I would say. We have found that Groucho tends to calm down and rest about an hour after his meals so the more often he is fed the more often you might get some peace :sneaky:
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:briggin: thankyou Rosella
i think he is a very very handsome cute kitty but i am biased hehe :Luv2:
mum is going to tesco and there is a pet shop near it so she is going to see if she can get the food you mentioned to try,i guess it wil take a couple weeks as will have to mix it with current food so not to shock the digestive system :)
i tried him with a couple bits of dry food, Go-cat seems to be what he picks ( i think its the milky bits in the kibble) apart from the hills science one,the thing is what worried me is just over 2 hours later he is so hyperactive its unreal -is that normal for a food to do that after only say a level egg cup size eaten please? it was like it turned him into damion off omen LOL its impossible to even give it to him as a treat by hand as he takes my finger or thumb with it :shocked:
if its just a few months for him to hopefully calm down thats cool I am used to taking about 9 months to just stop a ferret shredding ya fingers or any flesh it can see HAHA plus he will be nuetered as soon as vet says hopefully feb so hoping that will help too :D
I have the patience and the time i just hope Yuki does too and doesnt end up hating me for ignoring him when he wants to eat me :-:
hes drinking water now so much bettter then when he came maybe it was the hardness or softness difference . he is quite good with the sachets as he eats a little and leaves and doesnt gorge everything which i was worried about as he had to fight his siblings to get to bowl aparently and i'd like him to know he his safe and no one is going to steal his food and go back to enjoying taking a treat from my hand. he purred and seemed to enjoy it,i obviously loved it i felt accepted by him. i love it when he rubs noses :cat rub: with me after a treat its so cute hehe :Luv2:
thankyou for replying and your advice,it's greatly appreciated
:thankyou:
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Additives can cause hyperactivity in human children as can excess sugar, I suspect there are plenty of artificial ingredients in Go Cat to make what are essentially meat-flavoured cornflakes palatable to an obligate carnivore. Go Cat is also absolutely crammed with carbohydrates (only 4% meat :shocked: ) which I rather suspect are high glycaemic index (GI) carbs. High GI means that they cause the blood sugar levels to peak and trough, i.e they may as well be sugar. Hills and Royal Canin are somewhat better as it is much higher in meat than Go Cat but still contains a lot of cereals/ grains.
I am guessing you are on a budget if you have health issues - many of the Purrs regulars do too :hug: - so the most cost effective way to feed your kitten will be something like Butchers Classic tins (~£1.50 a kilo, additive free), Bozita tetrapacks (~£2.70 a kilo, 90% meat) or even a raw/ partially raw diet if you are feeling up to doing a little research (~£1.40 a kilo). One advantage to feeding wet is that your kitten will be getting plenty of moisture in his food so you won't have to worry about drinking, also most wet foods are low in carbohydrates. It is very difficult for a cat to gorge itself on bone in meat, and many absolutely love being able to express their inner lion! :Luv2:
By feeling 'ignored' I meant that perhaps you were not paying your kitten as much attention as you normally do on account of the fact you have house guests. I didn't mean that you are being in any way unkind. :shy: Have you tried putting the kitten or yourself in another room rather than simply being unresponsive? I know we have had people posting before who find it impossible to ignore a cat that has it's claws or teeth sunk in!
Clicker training is worth a try IMO, the clicks are relatively infrequent and you want your cat to be responsive to you whilst training; a clicker is only a couple of pounds which is a lot cheaper than a behaviourist! Clicker training is used by some rescues for behaviour modification as well as simply to occupy a cat's relatively high intellect. Noah really enjoys clicker sessions, probably because that is the only time he gets prawns! :rofl: If you are concerned about getting bitten you can drop or throw the treat each time rather than hand feeding: there are loads of 'how to' videos on YouTube if you want to learn more.
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hi Fire fox :)
sorry i think i understand what you meant by 'ignored' now :) when visitors are here they are all cat friendly think he is adorable and if he is curious they just let him sniff about them, i ask them to please let him know your not a threat and let him come to them and when they go to stroke talk and give their hand for him to smell before petting him, but if he shows any signs of agression i tell them to do exactly as i do or i walk out the door so he follows me and let him calm down if he calms down i give him a treat,and then we go back in. i hope this is the right way to do it as i read kittens need to meet people ,different people to learn we are not all threats. BUt usually he is spending all the time smelling them and their shoes as he isnt an outdoor cat it must be very interresting smells for him :) If he is play mood but not agressive i hand them wand toys /fishing rod toys as they find it as much fun as i do and hopefully Yuki does too :D
I wasnt sure if putting Yuki out the room when he bites was a good idea or not as he may just learn if i bite i get to go out the room? but i am also concerned i could be doing wrong spending too much time with him and he turns into a spoilt kitten and if i go out he will suffer from seperation anxiety.
lol as you can see i am not very confident in my decisions cos i am so scared i will let him down. I have been told by some friends or family the cat should go to a shelter or shockingly vets as dangerous cat,but those are not cat owners and i am not going to give up on him,I know he has such a softy side like right now he i purring away falling asleep on my lap he just needs help with manners and I am going to help him as best as i can,he is my baby and we kinda bonded when we first met ,i think you guys will understand that but non cat owners cant lol
If what i am doing atm by my ignore/freeze method is the way to go i will carry on as i am determined patient and lucky to have all the time to do it :) a few scar wounds is worth it to help him learn,its not his fault after all poor thing. :'( so i will have to play teacher hehe
yep I am on a budget but i still want good food for yuki but i dont really understand the contents % on the packets/bags/boxes but I am looking to see that meat/poultry should be first in the ingrediants and cereals at least third i think i read. the better is the 3 first listed if they are meat.
I would be a bit worried with giving raw meat incase of salmonella which my ferrets got once from meat someone prepared for them.
I am currently trying hand feeding by my palm so he cant actually grab my finger by accident its going ok so far touch wood lol
thankyou so much for your advice and suggestions i will go nosey on you tube and look at clicker training 8)
your Noah is very lucky cat prawns wow :D
:thanks: again :D
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With cat food the higher the meat content (%) the better.
You may want to have alook at zooplus.co.uk - they have a huge selection of food, treats, toys etc.
If you scroll to the bottom of the page you will find a link to zooplus that will give you 10% of your first order and by using this link it also means zooplus donate a percentage to our rescue fund.
It sounds like you are doing all the right things for him and if you can cope with ferrets I'm sure he will be no trouble! lol. He may be a little bundle to teeth and claws and hyper energy but at least he is happy and healthy ... quiet, letharic kittens are more worrying. I would just keep doing what you are doing and I'm sure he will calm down soon.
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:hi: hi Sam thanx for replying also :)
I hav used zooplus before,few years ago tho but never for food so i will have a looky thanx :D
I thought i was getting somewhere with Yuki and i dont know if this is coincedence but today i started to mix in the hills science kitten with his go cat kitten food (i stopped mixing it so just go cat again and he seemed more relaxed and happy and less agressive) but aprox 2 hour later he was going nuts again :shocked: coming at me more nasty,pupils like he is on drugs,almost black.scratching everything,biting everything and constantly mewing and unable to keep still. bit like me when i drink coca cola LOL tho i not nasty lol .
Is it possible there is something in the hills food that isnt in the go cat that doesnt agree with him and sets him off?? it just doesnt feel right at all when he is like this. he had started listening to to the word NO! when goign to climb furniture and getting on the tv now today he is just acting plain evil and ignoring me I am really confused :Crazy: i personally would have thought with a little colour in the go cat, this one would affect him as the hills is just brown but its come across as opposit,its the hills making him go crazy it seems. or am i reading it totally wrong and at his age he should be totally hyper and hardly napping ??
mum couldnt get the Royal Canin at the pet shop so I am going to try a small packet ordered online to try him on :D
I do hope i am doing everything right for him and he is happy with me ,yes id be extremely worried if he was quiet and lethargic I really dont want to let him down .
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Hello :) This sounds like my Elvis. He will be 12 weeks on Thursday. The Jekyll and Hyde thing you describe is pretty much the same with Elvis. They are still kittys tho so things will calm down as they get older :)
We just make sure Elvis has lots and lots of play time to tire him out when he is like this. I was a little concerned about controlling his biting etc but I think with lots of confidence and playtime etc things will calm down :) He is slowly starting to understand when we say "no" when hes like this he will 7/10 times stop and lick your waggling finger :evillaugh:
He was bad with his claws before this but we managed to stop him swiping by kind of rubbing in circular motions on his pads when he had his claws out. This seems to have worked and we do it everytime his claws come out during close contact play.
xxxxxxxxx
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yep I am on a budget but i still want good food for yuki but i dont really understand the contents % on the packets/bags/boxes but I am looking to see that meat/poultry should be first in the ingrediants and cereals at least third i think i read. the better is the 3 first listed if they are meat.
I would be a bit worried with giving raw meat incase of salmonella which my ferrets got once from meat someone prepared for them.
I am currently trying hand feeding by my palm so he cant actually grab my finger by accident its going ok so far touch wood lol
thankyou so much for your advice and suggestions i will go nosey on you tube and look at clicker training 8)
your Noah is very lucky cat prawns wow :D
:thanks: again :D
I will let the more experienced members of Purrs work with you on the behavioural side. It is clear you have a huge amount of love and commitment to your fuzzball and I feel confident that will carry you through. :hug:
This is a great article for gaining a better understanding of feline nutrition, from a scientific not a commercial perspective. I have 'cheated' as (human) healthcare is what I do in real life! http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm
As you already know, a cat food should have meat as the first ingredient, but I also prefer to be told the actual meat content as a percentage of the total product. The reason for that is that some sneaky manufacturers use several different grains in order to make each appear later in the ingredients than if a single cereal source was used. >:(
I am not going to pretend I know anything about ferret biology! Felines have a short digestive tract and higher acidity compared with the human stomach, which protect them from salmonella and other nasties. An important part of the immune system is the probiotic (friendly) bacteria that live in our gut - these can be kept topped up using a product such as LactoB. There are many vets who recommend using raw chicken wings to keep pets teeth clean, which they would not do if raw feeding was risky.
Obviously that means you still need to buy meat from a reputable source and practice good hygiene - I buy chicken ready frozen from the supermarket (Value/ Smartprice leg portions), plus whole offal to chop and fast freeze myself (cold metal baking sheet lined with silicone paper). Most articles you will find on the net recommend you don't feed minced meat, unless you mince your own or purchase pet meat that you know has been frozen quickly after mincing. This is because the high surface area can be a breeding ground for nasties.
I certainly don't raw feed full time, so please don't think that is my angle. :-[ The reason I suggested it is that it is possible to feed a balanced diet using only a single protein source, and you know exactly what is going into the meal. If there is improved behaviour that can be more easily attributed to the additives or cereals in the Go Cat or Hills. The alternative would be to feed a single wet food (fewer ingredients than biscuits) which is cereal and additive free as that way you have removed a large number of possible culprits in one fell swoop.
Noah's prawn treat is frozen Value or Smartprice - they are safer than fresh prawns, plus massively cheaper than most cat treats if you look at the price per kilo! :rofl: Like you I am on a budget, I try to feed Noah (6.5kg indoor male) a high meat/ grain free diet on an average of 50p per day. As the regulars know, I have a head-start as Noah will eat almost anything that contains meat (even still frozen or covered in pesto :evillaugh: ).
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:hi: and thankyou both for replying :)
Allshookup: it is comforting to know that I am not alone with a jekyll and hyde lol but i hope it doesnt last too long for you and your skin :) elvis is a looker :Luv: i never thought about rubbing Yukis paws when he scratching as he is so quick but i have been doing it alot since i got him to get him used to knowing the feeling of being touched and that it is a nice thing so when his claws will be cut it wont be such a suprise as to why i am holding paws hehe i do the same with looking at teeth regualy ,ears and tail etc just incase and hope it never happens he has accident and vets need to touch him so i want him to feel comfortable with being touched. ;)
hi again fire fox :) thankyou for saying "It is clear you have a huge amount of love and commitment to your fuzzball and I feel confident that will carry you through." that is so very kind and makes me feel more confident also :hug:
Thankyou for the link I will have a good read and take some notes later when master yuki is having a nap hehe
hmm its very misleading when the ingredients arent listed as they should so they are more beneficial to us and our pets.
raw chicken wings sound good as it seems clear to me yuki really needs to chew so thankyou for explaining about the lactoB i will put it on my shopping list too :D and as with ferets i guess many carnivores good for teeth and gums :)
i used to know some people who fed 'BARF' diets to their pets and many who like yourself feed with both , I used to get chicken wings for my ferrets but i had strange ferrets,they thought they were vegies even tho they knew how to use their teeth LOL but ya gotto love em :Luv: they all at rainbow bridge now sadly but all fuzzies creep into your heart :Luv2:
GOOD NEWS is Yuki is doing better i am feeding him on felix kitten pouches which he goes CRAZY for (in a good way this time) and the go cat kibble is there 24/7 but his main meals are the meat. he is now taking treats out of my fingers nicely again. i have some dental treats very small for training and a clicker set on the way 8) he still does have the jekyll and hyde moods but this will take time nothing ever happens overnight but i am so glad i decided to get rid of the hills completly as there is a change in him for the better. 8)
Noah's prawn treat is frozen Value or Smartprice - they are safer than fresh prawns, plus massively cheaper than most cat treats if you look at the price per kilo! :rofl: Like you I am on a budget, I try to feed Noah (6.5kg indoor male) a high meat/ grain free diet on an average of 50p per day. As the regulars know, I have a head-start as Noah will eat almost anything that contains meat (even still frozen or covered in pesto :evillaugh: ).
LOL :rofl:
hmm :thinking: maybe i could try prawns with yuki if you dont mind me using your idea ;) for clicker training. would also be good to introduce him to different tastes at his age so he hopefully wont grow up to be a fussy eater .plus i am thinking they will be better than cat treats in the long run. 8)
hugs to everyone and big thankyous for all your guidence this is a great place :hug: friendly and not intimidating to newbies to ask questions which you guys have probably gone through so many times. :hug: :thanks:
:thankyou:
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hugs to everyone and big thankyous for all your guidence this is a great place :hug: friendly and not intimidating to newbies to ask questions which you guys have probably gone through so many times. :hug: :thanks:
:thankyou:
We do pride ourselves on being one of the friendliest forums around and we would rather answer the same question a 1000 times and ensure lots of happy healthy kitties than have someone worried about asking a question and a kitty suffer.
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I hope you will stick around, Kitinboots, as I think you will fit right in here! ;D Pop over to the Purrs auction as there are usually bargains to be had on cat food, litter or potential Xmas gifts for humans. Also it is worth e-mailing a few pet food companies to explain you would like to try some of their dry food to check it doesn't have a negative effect on your kitten's behaviour. IIRC I found Royal Canin, Hi Life, Wafcol, Burns and Trophy to be helpful/ generous and others have had large samples from Arden Grange.
You may be pleased to know you helped me out last evening - I caught up on this thread then had a flashback to weighing out Noah's raw for the next two days .... the flashback ended prematurely so I rushed into the kitchen. There I found the bulk meat safely in the freezer but the tupperware containing two days food still on the worktop AND with no lid! :doh: Noah was poised to jump up and gave the saddest little chirrup as I whisked it away to the fridge. :rofl:
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:hi: sorry I havent been about to reply, have had a nasty bug i cant shake off and weather has been playing havoc with net, a miserable birthday but then when you get older its not as fun as when you were little LOL :(
Sam: this place is lovely and a place to be proud of ;D i was on and off ferret forums for years and some places can get very nasty sadly :( I was a mod on 2 or 3 and boy was it hard work! i take my hat off to you all for a great place ;D
Fire fox: aww thankyou i do hope to stick around as long as you all will have me and Yuki ;D
LOL i bet Noah tought xmas came early hehe
well bit of update:
Yuki has now had 2nd jab ,he is such a good boy at vets he doesnt even flinch! the vet was pretty shocked at the state of my hands and arms from Yukis teeth lol he also has cats and had an agressive cat he told me when he bit he put him in his carrier like sitting a child on a naughty step. as before i went to vets i had to do this on several occasions as Yuki is getting alot stronger = harder bites . he is now starting on my mum who lives with me as she is my carer , i guess he knows he will go in naughty box (carrier) so he is trying his luck with my mum and now my brother who visits but thankfully they are doing exactly what i do so hopefully no confusion so he WILL get the idea biting family = not acceptible.
I also asked the vet about trying feliway but he doesnt think it will make much difference as Yuki is not a stressed cat but a very cheeky,trying his luck cat. he said if he was naturally agressive he would of shownt signs towards the vet himself after all he was the one with the syringe lol.
I managed to get Yuki some Royal canin kitten 36 which he likes so i am weaning him off the go-catkitten onto this and his felix kitten meat and he prefures the kibble now to the meat. THo i had probs getting it as zooplus dont have it sadly and where i ordered it from i had some trouble and not sure if i am going to use them again :-:
hope you all arent too badly effected by the weather and your fuzzies are well and enoying themselves :D
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Great to see you back but sorry you have been having a rough time. :hug:
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HI happy New Year to everyone :hug:
just an apdate on Yuki.
well not much of one as theres not much change lol apart from him getting stronger jaws :( I a still keeping strictly to putting him on his carrier as vet told me too when he attacks or just even bites.
My mum managed to get hold of the lady i got her from by ringing off her mobile ,we told her everything thats happening and all she could say was "well get rid of it" >:( mum said the house sounded very noisey and i was wondering if Yuki is missing lots of noise and this is why he is attacking everyone that comes in the house????
we have my nephew every afternoon during the week and now i am getting worried i am failing with helping Yuki. I am having to tell my nephew when he can see him and when he has to pretend the cat is not there cos i am taking the cat otu the room as i see him start his tail and his eyes widen ,we are basicly gonna be banished to one room <sigh> but if this hapens how am i gonna get Yuki socialised.
i'm sorry i been getting a bit down and pretty upset cos i must be doing something wrong the vet reasures me i am not and i am doing everything but he isnt at home.
I was also wondering Yuki is a house cat,he has never been outside in his life could this be one of the problems? is he the wrong type of cat to be indoor ?? i live by mainroad tho i do have a backyard , but its too dangerous in my opinion. I thought about taking him for walks in the garden on a lead so we both get fresh fresh air and it something for him to lok forward to but i tried a harness on him and he can get out of it in a second and half .
I am hardly sleeping as i have to be on gard all the time as i dont want to shut Yuki in a room cos he needs to get used to not biting while he is with a humanoid.
if he is awake and i answer phone he gets angry if i pop on computer he gets angry , could i have givien him too much attention???
All shook up - how is Elvis doing? is he less agressive now?? i hope so :)
sorry for all the questions i am just very worried. i am thinking of asking vets to do blood tests or something incase he is in pain and not showing it or something :(
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Happy New Year to you and family ;D
I think you should try a felway plug in despite what your vets says, there is also something called Zykline that may help too.
If Yuki is not improving I would ask your vet to refer him to a behaviorist because a good one like Vicky Halls can probably work out the problem with Yuki almost immediately and come up with recommendations.
I believe your vet will refer him to one you select and I would go for Vicky Halls, she now has a FB group which you could join and maybe get some advice initially through there.
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:thanks: i will get some feliway to try and have a look for Zykline .
my vet gave me number for a behaviourist who just didnt seem interrested at all and said the prob was he obviously wasnt handled properly and i charge £105 to come out unless yoru insured. she actually put me off lol but i wil have a looky for the lady you suggested :)
thankyou so much :hug:
p.s. i do appologise for the mistakes in my previous post i was a little emotional when i wrote it :-[
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No problem and Vicky Halls is a respected and well known behaviorist unlike the one you must have contacted.
Will just do a search for her and see what I come up with, you can also get her monthly newsletters which are quite good too. ;D
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This link gives you access to everything ;D
http://www.vickyhalls.net/
Loads of luck in sorting this out :hug:
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:rofl: hehe :thanks: i was just reading the site ,you must of sent it telepathicly ;)
:hug:
thankyou i do hope he will get better Its upsetting to think he is going ot be a cat only around round the house when i am there and when people visit have to go to his playroom BUT hopefuly it wont come to that.
:thanks:
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Of Course, we on Purrs have so many connections :evillaugh: :evillaugh: :evillaugh:
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So pleased to have you back on Purrs, kitinboots, and a happy new year to you too! :) Sorry to hear you haven't had much luck despite sticking with the rules. I have such mixed feelings as I am so grateful Yuki has someone so caring as to want to help, but I wish you could find a solution and not have to worry. I agree 100% with you, if I didn't have a good feeling about a behaviourist I would not want them involved. Please pop back to Purrs for support at any time, we will always be here for you. :hug:
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:hug: aww thankyou fire fox thats lovely thing to say :)
i got a bit upset as i was told by some friends to rehome him or if he doesnt get better best thing is to be pts cos no one will want him >:( which i was not impressed with. worst comes it will be me and Yuki in his playroom which is my spare bedroom. oh that sounds bit llike a prison doesnt it :( he has cat trees and lots to play within there as well as all round the house LOL... sadly he wont be very social but he will get infinate love and support from me cos he my baby :Luv:
I am hoping he will settle after he is old enough to be neutered once all hormones settle down. atm i cant see it making much difference but i am hoping he will be more accepting of us humanoids and that we are here to help and to sit by for warmth and maybe a cuddle and play and not to fight and bite lol.
ooh he did let me trim his claws in 24 hours which i was so over the moon with ;D
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Tell your 'friends' you will put Yuki to sleep once they have PTS their children for misbehaving repeatedly. :rofl: I have to trim Noah's claws when he is dreaming or I get bitten! Of course he was good as gold for the vet nurse. :tired:
Lots of slaves isolate their cats at different times; I shut Noah in my bedroom when I have more than three house guests or when there is DIY taking place. Others do so whilst introducing a newbie to the existing menagerie, when they are sick so their bugs are not transmitted, whilst they move house, etc. Many rescue cats that are fostered have a single room to themselves.
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Hi kitinboots
Can I just throw in a little suggestion here, not sure if its been mentioned previously or if its possible for you but could you get another kitten as a companion for Yuki? I'm not saying it would be a definite fix and you would probably need to find a kitten with a similarly bold and playful personality but it would mean that they would be able to play with each other all day and get all the energy and kitty play agression out with each other.
When I first got Bourneville he was on his own and the scratches and bites he inflicted on me from play were pretty bad due to all the extra energy he had. I got Marble as a companion for him and having the two of them together sorted him out :)
Just a suggestion and understand if its not possible. It took me about 4 months to decide to get another kitten because it is a big thing
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Firefox - that is how i see it how would they like it if a noughty child was sentanced to death! to me Yuki is my baby he is my family he didnt ask to be born,or even ask to be with me tho by some peoples reactions i think he stands a better chance with me,i'd hate to think what would happen if he was with someone who says 'its JUST a cat' >:(
Anyway hopefully getting an extra plug socket put in the playroom and i can make it a proper living room/ cat playroom ;D so can put my computer in there and i have a tv of my own and a futon Yuki already sleeps on :D.
I will have to try trimming Yukis claws when he flat out sleeping cos he wont let me near his paws now LOL even with bribery lol.
Steff - hi there :) I sadly could only have the 1 cat -after discussing with my mum who is also my carer she said maybe another cat but i know she only saying it cos of how Yuki is affecting me atm, she couldnt handle anothe rkitten and to be honest I really dont think i could either, plus i only sorted all my money out for 1 cat before getting one and i had no idea how much the insurances had gone up so financially it wouldnt work ,my health wise it wouldnt work and as i am sure you can understand I couldnt risk giving a home to another cat when feeling not 100% it would not be fair on the cat. it would have to be a very very strong willed,very boystrous very very confident cat as Yuki i know already would be a bully.
I just dont want to let him down,I want to give him the best i just hope my best is good enough this is what i am afraid of,not being good enough for him :'( I just wish i knew what i was doing wrong so i could put it right and he would be a kitten not a flesh ripping vampire in cat form lol
but thankyou for replying as I do so much really appreciate cat peoples feedback to make sure i not doing anything wrong :hug:
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No worries hun, if was just a suggestion in case it was an option. But its no a guaranteed solution and would be a lot to take on, financially and otherwise.
I don't think you are doing anything wrong at all though, you just have a very lively kitten. Hopefully with age and time he will settle. I think someone else also mentioned once he's neutered he may calm down a bit too. That definitely helped with my dog Esco.
My third cat, Soap, who came to me nearly a year ago now was pretty crazy and would terrorise my older two and the dog and the house in general!!! She has calmed down a lot but even today she was climbing the door frame!!!!
Please don't worry or doubt yourself ok hun *hug*
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P.s. Forgot to mention that Soap has to go into time out sometimes still now!!
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hi again ;D oh it would be lovely to have 2 cats cos they just yummy lol oh i could imagine Yuki lol he gets jealous when i talk on phone imagine his reaction if i was petting another cat LOL
i am keeping my fingers crossed once neutered it will help but i not getting hopes up just in case lol. Maybe your Soap should come and meet Yuki and say Hey you not the king of cats you know LOL put him in his place :evillaugh:
lol thanx but i am a worrier :shy: i guess it like being a new mum in a way ,you just scared your not getting it right lol
i was thinking of making Yuki a sign saying Yuki's naughty box but he would probably bite it off and throw it back to me or play with it :rofl:
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Oh Kitinboots please don't ever doubt your capabilities as cats only need one thing - the love of someone who always wants the best for them, even if that is tough love or letting them go to the Bridge when the time finally comes. :hug: You are not the only one with a tight budget nor the only one with health issues, so you would never get 'judged' on here for having a responsible attitude! I cannot have two partly as money is tight, but mainly because Noah HATES other cats even on YouTube!!
PS. Noah sometimes bites (nips) me when I am on the phone, does not like me talking but not looking at him! :rofl: I hope your health issues can improve with time. xx
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lol firefox i tried showing youtube to Yuki with cats and founf one that sounded like it said mumma LOL he didnt like them even on tv a cat noise he stops and does his bottle brush tail and ears go back :shocked: . tho i have never witnessed him hissing or growling EVER sometimes i think he dont know he is a cat- seriously.
i was looking at the feliway products and the reviews and am a bit worried about the plug ins as people say they get very hot (i am petrified of fire) so would the spray be as good do you think? some reviews say they like the spray better but yopu never know who actually writes the reviews and if they are genuine so i thought i would ask here first :)
Also its getting hard to play with right now as any kind of wand toy like da bird he knows my hands move it so he comes to bite my hands, i am having to hang things over the dorrs but he still has worked out its me moving it so comes and bites, any ideas on help with that???
i also got him a willows kipper toy it has pure catnip in it ,tho i read kittens under 6 months may not react to it yet, its a big fish with like hessian on it to bite and a soft side to cuddle ,he shows no interrest in it even if i wiggle it he comes to it ignores it and just gets me as usual lol.
i huess it trial and error with toys with a young cat. i think he too smart for his own good !!
hope everyone is doing ok and all your fuzzbutts had a great new year despite the fireworks :D
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I have a feliway plug in and I wouldn't say it gets any hotter than a normal plug in air freshner. Have had it for a few months and haven't had any problems. It has definitely helped with all my 3 getting on and calming Soap a bit :)
Toys wise, pets at home used to do a gloves toy which had long fingers with danglies or balls on the end so your hand would be protected. I haven't seen them in there for a while but think I saw one on zoo plus. If you can't get hold of that, could you just wear a gloves when playing with the wands toys? Maybe a leather one...
I haven't tried Soap with catnip yet but out of my other two only Marble was interested and Bourneville wasn't bothered. I believe not all cats are, I think honeysuckle is another thing to try as an alterntive to cat nip :)
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lol firefox i tried showing youtube to Yuki with cats and founf one that sounded like it said mumma LOL he didnt like them even on tv a cat noise he stops and does his bottle brush tail and ears go back :shocked: . tho i have never witnessed him hissing or growling EVER sometimes i think he dont know he is a cat- seriously.
Also its getting hard to play with right now as any kind of wand toy like da bird he knows my hands move it so he comes to bite my hands, i am having to hang things over the dorrs but he still has worked out its me moving it so comes and bites, any ideas on help with that???
:rofl: Cats Protection warned me Noah is not cat-friendly, and he reacts to every little mew on YouTube. The biggest reaction was to a Siamese who was yowling whilst searching for his missing brother who was at the vets, Noah leaped about trying to find the intruder!! Strange because the Siamese was presumably not making aggressive noises, but of course I don't know how well Noah was socialised as a kitten (ex-stray).
You might try clicker training with Yuki? It is supposed to stimulate their brain and can be used for behavioural issues. The system I was using started with getting the cat to touch his nose to the end of a stick, then using the stick or a treat to guide the movement you want. Noah learned UP (onto back legs), SIT (mealtimes) and (give me) PAW quite quickly, DOWN took a while longer. Never mastered AWAY as the prawn smell was waaayyyy too interesting for Noah to leave! :rofl:
The best part is that clicker training is chep as chips - a clicker is a couple of pounds from a pet shop and there are stacks of free tutorials on YouTube! I trained Noah with frozen Value prawns cut into pieces, but most people just use their cat's favourite biscuits. To be honest biscuits will be far more convenient as you can toss them around the room without making a mess. :evillaugh: I found it a pain to hold a stick AND a clicker AND a treat, so I just used the clicker to touch the nose to. I would think you would be better taping the clicker to a stick as recommended, so that Yuki gets used to keeping his distance on command?
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Hi Kitinboots.....so sorry to read this thread and see that you are having such problems with your young cat.
He may not realise it, but he is VERY lucky to have landed in your care and I am sure these issues will settle over time.
Having two kittens in the house myself these past months I can totally agree that quality of food is paramount....on the few occasions they have eaten dry food with any grain in, they both turn into hyperactive monsters. So, personally I would strongly recommend trying to feed a food without ANY grain added. This means no dry food...but Butchers classic in supermarkets would be ok, as would Bozita or Animonda carny from Zooplus. Also any raw/ cooked meat as advised by FF.
Next I would definitely buy the plug in Feliway...it is just too hard to try to spray often enough and in the right places with the spray version. The last thing I can recommend is Bach Rescue Remedy....honestly this can really help. You can get the regular type in helath food stores and add few drops to water/ food bowl, or even gently stroke it over the cat's head. It is possible to get a special alcohol free brand from www.healing-herbs.co.uk
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hi everyone :) hope your all well.
hi Steff - I had those type of glove toys with bells or pompoms on the ends of long straw like fingers but i decided to get rid as they are too much like hands and i dont want to give the impression Yuki can play or even bite me or others even if we have skin covered. but ty :)
hi Fire fox - Yuki totally ignores a clicker trainer :-: i'm not sure uf its cos my nephew has toys that have similar sounds and hes learnt to ignore them???
hi paddypaws - Yuki has been on a meat only diet but he did keep looking and mewin for royal canin so he gets meat as main and royal canin as treats and left out overnight incase he bit peckish.no change in behaviour when he eats meat only or both but i took out go cat kitten food completly.
i have a feliway plug in on the way finally and i have some bach rescue remedy.is the alcohol in it dangerous at all???
i never thought id say this but i am totally and utterly lost! at my witts end so is my mother, i not well,not sleeping,absolutly exhasted :tired: all i am praying for is he is mature enough in 3 weeks to be neutured. i feel so selfish as i thin he needs another cat who is stronger willed then he is and be able to take all his agression out on things outside. I really dont know what to do when i pu thim in naughty box (carrier) not only can he open it but he throws a tantrum and now bites me thru the bars as i secure the door :'( as soon as he calms down let out he attacks so back in naughty box till he almost asleep.that is the only time he comes out and will rub my face and purr am i doing this all wrong?
he will no longer let me do his claws, or brush him he doesnt like being stroke that much now and i am in tears writing this as nothing seems ot be working ,i thought we really bonded when he wouldnt let me go and cuddled me and went to sleep on me and wouldnt go back to owner.
do you think blood tests could show if he has an illness or something??? or have is it me?
thankyou.xxx
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kitinboots....cats do not like alcohol...but the amount he will get really is minimal if you add it to his water bowl. Gently wiping the drops over his head is another option, or the alcohol free version I posted.
I will again suggest that you remove all grains from his diet and stick to pure meat for a sustained length of time.
As for putting him in a carry box for 'time out' well I am not too sure that is a good idea...cats don't really understand punishment and I think this could be traumatising him still further. The normal advice is to ignore the cat, leave the room etc but shouting or smacking is never a good idea as it would just seem like more rough play to the cat
http://www.messybeast.com/nervous.htm
I find the information here interesting.
Don't give up, I know it must be hard for you...but he ha a good chance to get over this with your loving help.
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Hi Kitinboots, I've just been reading through your thread and wanted to try and add to the reassurances already given that you're not doing anything wrong - but it is obviously an extremely stressful situation :hug:
Yuki sounds to me like a 'normal' kitten, in the sense that his behaviour is explainable: his energy and desire to play-fight are normal, but having (presumably) a rough start in life will have affected his early development and the way he has learned to interact with others (cats and people). He is clearly very focused on you, and is deriving a 'reward' - excitement, attention - from your responses to his behaviour. If he is still attacking you when placed in the cat carrier, he is succeeding in maintaining the sort of interaction (even if it's just you saying 'ouch!' or making eye contact) that gives him this reward. That isn't intended as a criticism but a suggestion that there are still things to try. If you could get a properly sympathetic behaviourist to work with you it might be extremely helpful, but if that isn't possible there are some articles here which may be of use:
This is a general outline of how a kitten's behaviour develops - the first case study (Morgan kitten) may be of interest:
http://www.fabcats.org/behaviour/understanding/kitten.html
This one looks at aggression as attention-seeking behaviour:
http://www.fabcats.org/behaviour/nervous_aggressive/attention.html
And a more general one on types of aggression, including pent-up energies:
http://www.fabcats.org/behaviour/nervous_aggressive/info.html
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hi there and thankyou both for replying. I will have a look at those sites you posted :hug:
:thanks:
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hi , i been doing alot of reading about attention seeking agression and pent up energy agression and so far every one seems to be no matter how you try to adapt the home like his playroom with trees and shelves hidey holes toys etc, actually going outside seems to be the most efective and this i cannot offer him :'( i luv him so much i just want him happy but its also causing alot of family problems and i am now having to think of finding him a home where he cn go outside and get the best of being indoors and outdoors :'( this is realy upsetting but i want the best for him, if he doesnt calm down after being nuetred i cant see any other option :'(
the time out in the carrier was my vets advice as he had a kitten similar and this isthe method he advied , when i first got him i just used to do absolutly nothing when he bit not move not shout or whimper just sit or stand there even with his teeth in my flesh he got no responce in any form no eye contact,no talking,nothing. he would walk off but second later come back and do it again this goes on and on and on day and night he only stps to sleep and eat.
THe times this cannot be done is when he goes for your face and is trying to bite thru your nose or eyebrows or lips. my family have seen this and find it very disturbing. they didnt realise how bad he can be. people who have come to see him after me explaining to them what he is like are very shocked as they thought i was making it sound worse than it was or over reacting.
well time will tell, the feliway plug in , rescue remedy, diet, now i guess no more naughty box, and finally weeks to calm down afte being nuetered.
fingers and paws crossed.
:'(
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I am so sorry and hope that he may settle but you maybe right about needing to be able to go out :hug: :hug: :hug:
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thanks Gill , its really heartbreaking but i goto think what best for him. :'( . i would like to get him nuetred first and when he turns 6 months he due for spot on too , if he has to leave i rather he be neutred and healed.
i still hoping tho he my baby :'(
you never know his name might come true ,fingers crossed. :hug:
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http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/aggression2.html (http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/aggression2.html)
He's lovely....if not, a little mischievous. :hug: He's very young at that age and most kittens take time to train out of their natural *coughs* overzealousness. ;)
I definitely think clicker training is worth trying. My partner clicker trains our middle cat (none of the others are interested) and she loves it. :)
http://www.freyacat.co.uk/2009/12/home-made-cat-toy.html (http://www.freyacat.co.uk/2009/12/home-made-cat-toy.html)
Another great idea....brain training for over active kitties. ;)