Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat General => General Cat Chat => Topic started by: miranda luck on August 24, 2010, 00:29:16 AM
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Hi! :)
Obviously the rescue/rehoming organisations set a price so that they know the new owner is taking some financial responsibility - and to recoup the cost they have incurred for neutering etc. There is the view that, if a new owner can't afford a one off payment of ie £50.00 for a cat, how will they afford the long term cost of food/vaccinations etc.
What do you think would be a reasonable price? Should it be different for purebred animals? kittens and puppies?
What do you think?
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When I adopted Ai Chan the min fee was £75. She was only a 14 weeks old.
I didn't mind paying because I know the money goes to good clause. My local rescue charges £65 for older cat.
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What do you think Miranda?
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I thought the prices were quite reasonable (I'm thinking between £50 and £80) because if you consider neutering costs (which the majority undergo), dentals or other medical intervention (which many need) and parasite treatment and chipping which they generally all have before adoption - it soon adds up. And to care for a cat at a 'standard' cattery (catering for 50 cats) costs approximately £5.00 per cat per day.
The thing is - I'm very aware of these costs whereas a person visiting a rescue may not be?
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quote author=miranda luck link=topic=33948.msg603738#msg603738 date=1282606156]
Hi! :)
What do you think would be a reasonable price? Should it be different for purebred animals? kittens and puppies?
Obviously the rescue/rehoming organisations set a price so that they know the new owner is taking some financial responsibility - and to recoup the cost they have incurred for neutering etc. There is the view that, if a new owner can't afford a one off payment of ie £50.00 for a cat, how will they afford the long term cost of food/vaccinations etc.
What do you think would be a reasonable price? Should it be different for purebred animals? kittens and puppies?
What do you think?
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Is this part of your research Miranda or purely a matter if interest?
Speaking bluntly I am a Rescue with nothing to hide,( in fact my doors are always open to inspection as is paperwork) however its coming accross to me that you are trying to find bad or at least belittle rescues.In answer to some of your questions
A reasonable price- there shouldnt have to be one, we dont sell humans what makes animals any different ? Yes I do ask for a donation but as for being able to recoup neutering costs etc. no chance; a good rescuer does her homework and thoroughly checks out each potential home without being stupid enough to think Money equals good home because it doesnt.
You ask should price be different for pure bred animals, kittens and puppies, in my mind an old battered black tom with a tatty ear and limp is as precious and beautiful as any pedigree or kitten.
Maybe you should start looking at the good that is being done, maybe you should put your energies in to going out and educating people on the benefits of neutering and giving proper pet care, maybe you should volunteer at a rescue and do something worthwhile.
I have done rescue for over 20 years and had well over 5000 cats through my care and still hold my head high with pride at the good reputation of Paws Inn, yes word of mouth plays a big part and asking questions does but nothing like getting off your butt and checking things out yourself if you are in any doubt is the best way of doing things.
I for one do not like your current approach but thats just me so I will say My doors are open, check me out for yourself.
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I'm carrying out research because animal welfare and rescue is my interest, my passion!
"its coming accross to me that you are trying to find bad or at least belittle rescues". Absolutely not! What makes you say this please?
"Maybe you should start looking at the good that is being done". I've never stopped!
"maybe you should put your energies in to going out and educating people on the benefits of neutering and giving proper pet care". That's what I do for a living!
"maybe you should volunteer at a rescue": I volunteer for 2 organisations and do around 16 hours per week pro bono for 2 others.
"and do something worthwhile" I think that's a little mean.
"My doors are open, check me out for yourself" - I'm not checking anyone out. I'm gathering and collating the views of people who have visited rescues. I am interested in their opinion. Why did they leave without filling an adoption form? Why did they not make a donation? Would they recommend the rescue to another? If not -why not?
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The charge, or donation required by a rescue for the delivery of a cat is, I suspect, a bit of a test as to the commitment a person has to a) getting an animal and b) having the ability to provide it with on-going care. Pet-keeping is not a cheap exercise, so if you can't afford £60 to get a pet, then how will you afford to pay for veterinary care if it is urgently required?
It does, however, have the effect of turning some people off the idea - and reverting to back yard breeders whose kittens have not had the correct care, and the mother of those kittens may be allowed to breed too frequently.
The cost of keeping an animal at a rescue for the indefinite period between its arrival and departure can vary enormously and rather depends on the condition of the animal on arrival. Some require extensive veterinary care before they can be rehomed. The cost of that care needs to be aggregated across the total number of animals involved. So £60 for a cat that has been in care for a week is expensive, but it is dead cheap if it has been there 12 months recovering from multiple surgery arising from prior mis-treatment.
I do think that rescues need to do a better job of communicating the sorts of expenses that they are covering as many people simply assume they are all receiving funding from some unspecified source. In the case of rescues such as the one Theresa runs, that unspecified source is her hip pocket, plus the funds that can be raised by activities that take away from time that might be better spent with the animals.
So I don't feel it is possible to answer on the basis of fairness. Rather, the question needs to be whether rescues are doing a good job of selling the service they provide. In many instances this would definitely be no. And too often the 'heartstrings' approach is used which tends to lose its effectiveness over time.
So, I guess that really isn't an answer so much as a rant, but I hope it helps.
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Definitely helps! Many thanks! :thanks:
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No I don't think they charge enough to be honest!
I think we paid £20 for Milo, but we gave a £30 donation on top, he also came with a neuter voucher but we didn't cash it in and paid for it ourselves. I think we only paid £40 for Jess and he came neutered etc, again we gave a donation on top. We also incured £100 in taxi fees as we live no where near the rescue. When we were home checked they actually delivered Jess at the same time to save us the trip, when we got Milo a year later we were allowed to take him there and then because we'd taken Jess on.
I actually work for one of the rescues (canine) that had been reviewed on your site, our prices are determind by lots of things, and vary centre to centre. This is because , "it will be neutered, microchipped, fully up to date with all vaccinations, wormed, treated for fleas, it will have a lead and collar, 4 weeks free insurance with PetPlan, a Pet24 identity disc and a small supply of food".
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I'm carrying out research because animal welfare and rescue is my interest, my passion!
Well I hope your passion does more to change the way people treat animals than my work has done; i began 22 years ago and I was going to change the world, you know what nothing changed I just pick up more pieces.
"its coming accross to me that you are trying to find bad or at least belittle rescues". Absolutely not! What makes you say this please?
Reading bad reviews on certain rescues didnt help and also the way you phrased your question, why say too much rather than ask if rescues are asking enough.
"Maybe you should start looking at the good that is being done". I've never stopped!
Seems to me that your time on Purrs is spent on your own threads, asking people for their opinions; would be nice if you were seen to be actively taking an interest and posting on other threads, particularly ones re your passion rescue
"maybe you should put your energies in to going out and educating people on the benefits of neutering and giving proper pet care". That's what I do for a living!
Can i ask who is paying you ? as you previously told us you make no money from your research etc."maybe you should volunteer at a rescue": I volunteer for 2 organisations and do around 16 hours per week pro bono for 2 others.
"and do something worthwhile" I think that's a little mean.
just hate it when people take half a sentence from elsewhere to make something sound unfair, this bit is part of a previous sentence
"My doors are open, check me out for yourself" - I'm not checking anyone out. I'm gathering and collating the views of people who have visited rescues. I am interested in their opinion. Why did they leave without filling an adoption form? Why did they not make a donation? Would they recommend the rescue to another? If not -why not?
It sounds to me that you are checking out, if you arent then all the collating of information is worthless.
Modified to say -Actually I have just noticed which section this is in, surely it pertains to Rescue/Rehoming and should be there.
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You will get a one sided argument on this site as most people who are on here are either in rescue of support what rescues do.
I ask more for a pedigree cat, not because they are worth more in my eyes, but because unless the person is known as as good sort, I have learnt to distrust most people and I'm not going to hand over a pedigree cat to someone for £50 and then see one up for sale on the free ads for £200+. We do home visits and assess potential owners but I am well aware that if someone is out to con , I probably will not spot it.
We also have vets bills/food etc to pay and there is rarely a cat that comes in that makes 'a profit'. I can't remember the last cat that came in, didn't have anything wrong and was home quickly enough to not cost us much. And thats without the problems of having paid staff that the bigger rescue have.
We ask for £40 unvacced, and as we are getting round to vaccinations if a cat has received both shots we now ask that the owners pay this on top so about £75 (which doesn't get back all the cost of the vaccines which we have to pay normal prices for).
Last year we were down £10k over the year, not too bad but I really don't know where people think we get our money from. this year it's likely to be more - especially if we keep having to rush sick kittens into emergency vets at £200 a go.
When I worked at the CP homing shelter in Birmingham many years ago, there was a notice up in reception that estimated that each cat they homed cost CP about £800 (It might have been £1000). That of course is high but has to be as the cats are quarantine for 3 weeks and you have the shelter costs to pay for plus wages of manager, deputy manager and cattery assistants - something that size cannot be run by volunteers alone.
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'You will get a one sided argument on this site as most people who are on here are either in rescue of support what rescues do'.
Ahhh I see. Thanks for letting me know. And interesting comments about the re-sale of pedigrees. I had heard that it had/was happening through the grapevine but had yet to hear first hand.
I think the CP sign is an excellent idea. It would be good to get the up to date costs and get one of the big companies to produce/sponsor a poster to that effect for reception areas.
I know people will say - if potential adopters are being 'funny' about the price, then how will they feel about vet bills etc but people are funny about money and like to think they are getting value for money.
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Miranda I have been fostering and involved in rescue also for over 20 years.
I have fostered for several rescues and have found that there is no way that they can recouperate the cost that the animal has incurred. If that was the case if you take blood tests, neutering, food, cat litter, flea treatments, worming treatments, veterinary costs (medication and consultations), shelter (light and heating) for the animals it would work out dearer than what you would pay for some pedigree animals. Then on top of that they have the cleaning costs as after each cat or dog leaves a pen it has to be thoroughly disinfected with a good high quality disinfectant before another animal can occupy that space. Also some animals maybe referred to behaviourists as they have been that badly treated to help in recovery of the animal and make it possible for them to home.
Many fosterers if fostering at home actually dip in to their own pockets for things such as toys, bedding and treats for the animals which do not come out of rescue funds at all.
So with your question it strikes me that it is just demeaning what the people on this site are doing by asking do rescues charge too much. There is more than just money involved here there is the time and patience of all of us to show the animal what love and true care is and to make sure they are going to a good and loving home.
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"There is more than just money involved here there is the time and patience of all of us to show the animal what love and true care is and to make sure they are going to a good and loving home".
I absolutely agree and I'm sure others do to.
But just to put things into context - on another (predominately pet ownership) forum, one of the members has suggested that no only do rescues charge too much - but "why don't they provide lifelong medical cover as well". (!!!??!! I can hear your cries of laughter/tears now!)
Also - the general consensus (on that site) is that the rescues are charging to much. They say things like I can get an animal from the paper/shop etc for much cheaper.
They clearly do not know/appreciate the costs and the fact that they are actually wrong in their assumptions.
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So it is an educational process that is required then. I think a lot of people going to a rescue for an animal will assume that they are doing the rescue a favour - and the animal, in that they are providing a home for an unwanted animal. To be met with a charge can be off-putting in that context. So perhaps each rescue needs to prepare a booklet that outlines the costs involved in the work in an objective and business-like manner to ensure that people who may already be feeling 'had' can see that they are dealing with people whose expenses are not being met by the contribution they are making in £££ terms.
Just saying 'it costs a lot' or 'we are barely making ends meet' is not sufficient to the case. There are so many organisations out there dealing with heart-wrenching issues - child abuse, illnesses of various sorts, starving kiddies in Africa etc, that an appeal solely to the heart can not necessarily achieve the outcome sought.
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I don't think it is Miranda's own point of view but was an unintentionally leading question. I really don't understand why she is getting so much grief :Crazy:
As for CP, up until now, donations have been voluntary and can be anything from £100+ to a tin of cat food (yes really!) - I believe Julie was given a bag of cabbages or similar once :Crazy: - As from October, CP will be charging a fixed fee (with some flexibility). I'm not sure if this will work, but they have worked out that it won't have a negative impact on revenue.
I do think that people think organisations like CP have endless reserves. We sometimes have people asking if they are 'entitled' to money to pay vet bills etc. :Crazy:
There is a rescue in Essex - I can't remember the name offhand, but they charge a set price for cats/kittens and the prices varies depending on age/colour - that I think is really odd :shify:
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I agree it is an educational process - but do people read leaflets?
Now don't go mad at me people because I am not suggesting animals are or should be compared to products on a store shelf BUT how about putting a 'price-tag' on individual pens.
Ie: Monty (and all the normal details)
PLUS: Vaccination £18
Flea tx £8
Chip £5
Dental £89
Neuter £18
BT £20
total £158
It would certainly get attention!
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Yes, the price tag approach would be good - particularly for those animals whose bills run to the £1000s. But finish off with - price £60.00. The total cost, even for a kitten born at the rescue is far higher than the actual £££ as the time of the volunteer foster carer is not factored in, nor is the food costs if the volunteer chooses to pay that out of their own pocket.
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But just to put things into context - on another (predominately pet ownership) forum, one of the members has suggested that no only do rescues charge too much - but "why don't they provide lifelong medical cover as well". (!!!??!! I can hear your cries of laughter/tears now!)
Also - the general consensus (on that site) is that the rescues are charging to much. They say things like I can get an animal from the paper/shop etc for much cheaper.
They clearly do not know/appreciate the costs and the fact that they are actually wrong in their assumptions.
I hope you are passing back some of our comments to them then - or if you'd like to pm me the site , I'll go on there.
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I hope you are passing back some of our comments to them then - or if you'd like to pm me the site , I'll go on there.
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I am! I don't think you would want to go there! I'm also getting similar views (too expensive) from some of those 'free ad' sites and boy - there are a lot of animals for sale on there. :scared:
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I'm also getting similar views (too expensive) from some of those 'free ad' sites and boy - there are a lot of animals for sale on there. :scared:
tell us about them, we often try to intervene on them - like our bottle feeds. FTGH at 4 days old after their mother was killed by a dog
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I'm also getting similar views (too expensive) from some of those 'free ad' sites and boy - there are a lot of animals for sale on there. :scared:
tell us about them, we often try to intervene on them - like our bottle feeds. FTGH at 4 days old after their mother was killed by a dog
That's dreadful. :scared:
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Also - the general consensus (on that site) is that the rescues are charging to much. They say things like I can get an animal from the paper/shop etc for much cheaper.
Ask them how many of those animals from the paper/shop are neutered, vaccinated, wormed, chipped, flea treated...they'd soon find out that if they choose to care for the cat they purchase properly and responsibly, that it would add up to a whoooole lot more. Alas so many people are short-sighted and only see the costs of the 'there and then'.
I work with rabbit rescue and have found that people head for rescues because they think that it will be cheaper than buying one from a pet shop. So the donation also serves to ensure that the person isn't just thinking that this is a cheaper way of getting an animal. Nothing wrong with being thrifty of course, but it does certainly set off alarm bells!
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I did wonder about the rescues signing up to a 'paw mark' - like the kitemark which would identify the rescues animals as being neutered, vac and chipped.
Anyone like that idea?
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It's a while since I got my boys from a rescue (13 years ago) and I paid £12 for each of them. They had had their first vaccination but I had to take them (and pay) for their second. They were too young to have been neutered. I think they were a bargain :Luv:
I don't think rescues charge too much and it's a pity so many potential adopters don't realise the costs incurred by rescues. The charge/donation doesn't come close to covering costs. I'm sure a lot of people would be more willing to pay if they realised but, as others have said, I think many feel that they are doing the rescue a favour by taking the cat and/or assume the rescue has plenty of rich benefactors :shify:
I ask more for a pedigree cat, not because they are worth more in my eyes, but because unless the person is known as as good sort, I have learnt to distrust most people and I'm not going to hand over a pedigree cat to someone for £50 and then see one up for sale on the free ads for £200+. We do home visits and assess potential owners but I am well aware that if someone is out to con , I probably will not spot it.
I agree with that. There's always the possiblilty that someone after a pedigree cat sees them as a commodity they can obtain cheaply from a rescue and then sell on at a ridiculous price.
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I did wonder about the rescues signing up to a 'paw mark' - like the kitemark which would identify the rescues animals as being neutered, vac and chipped.
Anyone like that idea?
in principal it would be fine but it would not work in practice. people buy 'pedigrees' without papers because they are cheap, yet the papers are supposed to ensure the pedigree.
It all boils down to lack of education, stupidity, greed and apathy. Don't want to offend anyone but the average pet owner is quite often clueless and then of course theres the trash - ask any cp neutering person what they have to deal with...
also, to administer this 'paw mark' would cost and no doubt this would have to be paid by the rescues and so it would be adding yet more cost to rescues for doing what they do anyway - unless you can do a deal with vaccine manufactures to help meet these costs.
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Sometimes during homechecks, if the donation subject comes up, people ask what a normal donation is. I remember one man - who lived in a large, detached house with several posh cars out the front asked me - I said that if we get £50 or more, we are happy - he gasped and said "I bet you bloody well are!" - insinuating that we were making a killing out of it :Crazy:
I soon put him straight :Crazy:
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A pet shop in town which sells kittens :censored: charges between £75 and £100 per kitten and that is with no vaccinations or anything.
I wont start ranting about them because I have done so until I am blue in the face, I have reported them to the RSPCA more than once and still got nowhere!!
When I got Tiggy from Catkins my sister took her brother Barney, the lady who ran the rescue asked for £25 for both of them - we gave a donation on top and carried on donating until she sadly had to close.
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"There is more than just money involved here there is the time and patience of all of us to show the animal what love and true care is and to make sure they are going to a good and loving home".
I absolutely agree and I'm sure others do to.
But just to put things into context - on another (predominately pet ownership) forum, one of the members has suggested that no only do rescues charge too much - but "why don't they provide lifelong medical cover as well". (!!!??!! I can hear your cries of laughter/tears now!)
Also - the general consensus (on that site) is that the rescues are charging to much. They say things like I can get an animal from the paper/shop etc for much cheaper.
They clearly do not know/appreciate the costs and the fact that they are actually wrong in their assumptions.
Don't know if they still do but CP would do this except for ordinary costs such as vaccination and flea treatments if you adopted a cat over 10 years old with a medical condition, that required either or both, medication or special diet.
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I definitely feel Teresas way of doing things is better. Assessing the home and the people; ensuring the lengths they'd go to ensuring their cats wellbeing; even if it means going without.
I actually got my oldest cat, Carrie from the RSPCA 15 years ago and she cost me the grand sum of £16.They now charge £60 a cat. Although I'll admit this isn't a large amount, affixing a price to an animal makes me a little uncomfortable.
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As for CP, up until now, donations have been voluntary and can be anything from £100+ to a tin of cat food (yes really!) - I believe Julie was given a bag of cabbages or similar once :Crazy: -
Actually it was an armful of Rhubarb. I had the running :censored: for a week. :evillaugh:
Ie: Monty (and all the normal details)
PLUS: Vaccination £18
Flea tx £8
Chip £5
Dental £89
Neuter £18
BT £20
total £158
Please tell me which vet charges these amounts because we'll all sign up. :innocent: This is more realistic in our area (Canterbury). We know we are cheaper here and other areas are paying a lot, lot more for basic vet bills.
First vaccination - £35, Full course £65
Flea treatment - £8
Wormer - £4
Chip - £25/£30
Dental - Anything from £80-£160
Neutering - Anything from £45 (male) to £85 female for flank spay, £110 for midline.
So anyone who thinks a £50 adoption fee for a cat is expensive needs to research the true cost of vet care BEFORE they decide to keep animals. Why is the onus on the rescue to tell them? Even so, rescues always do talk about vet care when doing homechecks. It's made perfectly clear how expensive pet ownership can be. The new owners will have to pay these fees too when they take an animal home.... or do some people think rescues don't pay vet fees and this is why they question adoption fees? :shy:
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Just spotted this...
But just to put things into context - on another (predominately pet ownership) forum, one of the members has suggested that no only do rescues charge too much - but "why don't they provide lifelong medical cover as well". (!!!??!! I can hear your cries of laughter/tears now!)
When someone takes a conscious decision to adopt an animal from a rescue, to whom does that animal then belong? Whose responsibility is it to care and provide for it? If I bought a second hand car from you, would you come round and fill it up with petrol once a week? I don't think so! :evillaugh:
Miranda it's obvious to me you are spending far too much time in the 'wrong' company. Some people (I've noted a disparate percentage of dog forums) extend modern self-centred, selfish interested views into pet ownership in the same manner they would when choosing a pension scheme or a new cooker. They look for a 'bargain' and begrudge anything they perceive to be 'expensive'.... well animals are expensive, whether in the care of rescues or private homes, end of. :tired: Such people rarely make good owners of rescue animals. What marks a GOOD rescue home out from the rest is that they have a preconceived acceptance that rescuing an unwanted animal comes with rewards which don't have a price tag. They are prepared to put the time, effort and money needed into nurturing those rewards and shaping them into a life long companionship. ;)
As for the folks who come up with those kinds of statements (about wanting life-long insurance and arguing 'costs'), well they are the kinds of people likely to view pets as commodities and unlikely to pass a homecheck as their attitude shows a real potential risk of failing to provide urgent vet care in a timely fashion. :innocent:
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So anyone who thinks a £50 adoption fee for a cat is expensive needs to research the true cost of vet care BEFORE they decide to keep animals. Why is the onus on the rescue to tell them? Even so, rescues always do talk about vet care when doing homechecks. It's made perfectly clear how expensive pet ownership can be. The new owners will have to pay these fees too when they take an animal home.... or do some people think rescues don't pay vet fees and this is why they question adoption fees? :shy:
I think some people probably do think that rescues don't pay vet fees. It's not so much a case of the onus being on the rescue to tell potential adopters about the cost of keeping a cat, but rescues need people to adopt animals and they need funds, so surely it's in their interests to educate the public about how much they spend on animals whilst in their care. Cat rescue to most people means CP, RSPCA and similar large organisations and I think a lot of people think that such charities have plenty of money due to high profile appeals, occasional media reports of having been left large sums of money in wills etc.
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I have to say this is a really interesting discussion.
I personally quite like the idea of showing the "price list" as to how much it has cost to care for the particular animal that is up for re-homing, so that prospect owners get a good idea of what's involved in responsible pet ownership.
I say this because I recently had a discussion with someone I class as an irresponsible pet owner. She has a cat, and a dog. She "acquired" both from a relative, who persistently never gave a damn about them, and the dog was frequently escaping, and being picked up by the local dog warden.
Unsurprisingly, it has done the same now that this individual has taken it on - it is an unneutered male, and on frequent search for hot totty. She "can't afford" to have it neutered, and she tells me that "anyway it doesn't stop dogs wandering". (She also endorses the same argument about her cat). She also complained bitterly the last time she had to pay the local shelter to retrieve the dog, claiming that her Father had told her it was all a rip off anyway and that the "profits" all go to the police.....(?)
I don't think I need comment any further on the mentality of this particular individual, but I certainly feel that if anyone else who thinks like that should happen to enter a rescue and feel the prices are too high, it may give them a much needed reality check.
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I know it wouldn't work for small rescues, but for larger rescues with proper premises and a reception area, how about a sign with "this month's vet bill"?
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I know it wouldn't work for small rescues, but for larger rescues with proper premises and a reception area, how about a sign with "this month's vet bill"?
Ooooo! Lovely. I think it could work for small rescues too?
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... or do some people think rescues don't pay vet fees and this is why they question adoption fees? :shy:
The mum of the bloke who I got the garage cats off phones me most days (she doesn't pay for her calls) and she is always questioning me about costs and vets. They gave me a chq for £20 on the day to help cover costs.
This lady is shocked to hear that we have to pay vets bill, she keeps saying "you don't pay for that?". She herself is with the PDSA and quite proud that whenever she goes in with her dog she gives the £5 (instead of the paltry few pence that other folk give - her words). She gave them £10 to pts her last dog when the time came and said they looked surprised at this "as it costs nothing to pts a dog".
When I told her about the kitten and the charge of £260 at Vets Now, she said I don't know how you rescues do it. I did explain to her we were eating our way into our last legacy and there was no way we could survive otherwise. She thinks we get our neutering for free and I have told her at least 5 times we don't.
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Talking of price tags for a cat is distasteful isn't it but a fact of life. Perhaps you should provide a link to this discussion on the other site you mention Miranda? I agree that listing costs incurred by rescues and other ongoing costs for potential new "owner" (how on earth can anyone own another creature :Crazy: ) would be a good idea.
We currently have an 8 week old kitten with us waiting to be rehomed by CP. So far he's needed treatment for fleas and worms and will get 1st vaccination next week. Thankfully he seems to be a very healthy little chap despite being discovered bedraggled by a canal and hopefully will remain healthy. Amazingly vet made no charge for consultation just treatment £5.40 :) so initially I thought he's actually cost us very little but realise I had ignored costs of his kitten food, accommodation, toys, cat carrier, litter trays/littter, sleepless nights, cleaning materials to clean up another cat's pee coz he can't use his normal peeing spot as kitten in "his" room (yes that's you Freddie ;) ) All of these things we have but they are not free.
I should perhaps add that we have 6 cats already so really cannot fit in newbie. Am sure this is why vet gives us freebie consultations on occasion as we are extremely good customers :)
I know it wouldn't work for small rescues, but for larger rescues with proper premises and a reception area, how about a sign with "this month's vet bill"?
Agree; good idea. Nothing to stop rescue's websites having a prominent banner giving this info too.
Just read your post Angie. All I can say is I despair. It must drive you crazy. How do you keep your temper?
OH just admonished me for spending time on here instead of playing with the kitten ..... so I better go :-[
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Very interesting thread ;D
I have always given as much as i can when adopting from the rescues especially since being on cat chat and here as i know so so much more what they go through to care and save the cats in their care.
It def is education that can help the gen public understand what costs are involved. I always grew up in a animal loving family with pets but i can remember when i 1st adopted animals of my own, i didn't know what i should have known about them. Yes i know how to care and love them but to actually understand them in their natural ways and not just as hoomans think they should be.
This also was the same for the rescues i went to, i had no idea of what was involved for them, no idea of how much they need, money and courage to help the little ones. I always admired rescues and always will. :Luv:
Sadly there will always be those who treat animals/pets as commodities :( and it's those who want to look for a "bargain" and think the rescue have endless resources. I do think that big organisations like the RSPCA do give the public a view that they have endless funds from public donations and so many people don't realise the actual branches and small rescues struggle like hell to cope.
How many people do the rescues have that come to them to adopt that presume the rescue has lots of public donations and funding? Do you find that it is most of the public and only the odd one that understands the costs and gives a good adoption donation?
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How many people do the rescues have that come to them to adopt that presume the rescue has lots of public donations and funding? Do you find that it is most of the public and only the odd one that understands the costs and gives a good adoption donation?
I can only answer for the some of the enquiries we get here at Canterbury... I find the folks who don't understand what we go through are the folks who want something from us for nothing - neutering vouchers for example. Although we can sometimes negotiate a reduced rate for charity cases, often vets charge us the same price to neuter a charity cat as they would a private client. The voucher ensures we pay the shortfall between what the cat's owner can pay (often just a fiver :tired: )and the actual price of the neutering. We have to stand in the pouring rain rattling collection tins to find that shortfall... yet I've come across people who think it's all for free and the vets just don't charge when a voucher is involved! One notable case I remember was a woman working in the county council accounts office who thought we were administering an EEC development budget from Brussels! :rofl: :rofl:
As for people who adopt.... well the successful ones *have* put some thought into the process and done some research. Our rehoming questionaire is designed to test them on whether they have considered all factors.
I do recall one particular adoption donation which blew my socks off. And still brings a tear! :'( :Luv2: A young couple adopted the two remaining kittens from a little of 7 I had been fostering. When they came to view and to collect I told them how we had nursed this litter through illness and craddled them one by one as the died leaving just 2 healthy ones fit to start new lives. The hubby didn't say a word but he opened his wallet and entered the contents into my hands and closed my fist tight. When they left I counted in and there was over £300 in my hand! :wow: :'( :Luv2:
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That brought tears to my eyes Julie :'( in a good way. The world has many very good people in it which is just as well as there are so many :censored:
I agree Tan that I had no idea really of the costs and damned hard work involved in cat rescue before I discovered CC and Purrs even though all of our cats have been rescues. I think I'm safe in saying that we pretty well always double the guideline donation and, as an aside, Covcats donation levels are definitely too low Angie ;) :hug:
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The other side of the coin is the woman who phoned on behalf of her brother. Imagine this is in a lazy drawl.
Allo - I'm, phoning up for my bruvver. He just got 2 kittens. Can you phone me about free spaying and anything else he is entitled to" Followed by the usual mobile number.
The E word is something that seems to come up fairly often. It is such a shame that insurance isn't compulsory.
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This has been an interesting thread, my standard response when people questioned our £30 adoption fee was that a female would cost you £42 to be spayed at the vets I use, and neuters were included in our adoption fee, never mind the flea/worm treatments (we didn't vacc or chip due to costs). The rescue I volunteer for now charge £60, but that includes neuter, flea, worm, chip and vaccine. One of the rescues in my area did used to have details of hwo much things cost in both their reception area and on the website, although they have changed their website now and I can't find it anymore - I think some of the costs were quite high though, and might have had the opposite effect
I did sometimes think that a compulsory donation prevented anyone giving more, and also sometimes a good home was more important than the donation.
While I have paid for very few of the cats I have had through a rescue, I have always done other things such as donating food or paying standing orders/membership fees (except for the last two, which I fostered/fundraised/did admin for)
I'm still on the shelf on compulsary insurance, partly because there are some poor insurance companies so some people would still be left without cover, and partly for the people who end up with a stray with health issues.
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This was a call tonight that kind of illustrates some of what rescues are dealing with. A woman said that her friend's cat unexpectedly had 4 kittens. :shify: - the friend is pregnant herself. She asked if we can take them and possibly the mum as well.
the priceless line was "She isn't looking for any money for them" :-:
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the priceless line was "She isn't looking for any money for them" :-:
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Oh how very generous of her!!! :Crazy:
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:-: :innocent: It just goes to show that peeps just don't know what rescues do. It's actually quite annoying aint it and you want to shout it from the roof tops!
So this is def one area where the public can gain more knowledge and therefore the benefit rescues hopefully.
Do you think it would put homers' (not the simpson guy :evillaugh: ) off if the costs for the care of cats were shown on their pens with a standard notice of something like "This is the cost for caring for (name) our standard adoption fee is ... (or donations are welcome) but we appreciate it greatly if you can donate a higher amount so we are able to help more cats?"
Ie give them the info of how much it has cost the rescue and up to them to donate more or not.
It wouldn't be so good if this does put people off though!
Every rescue i didn't know what it cost them for the cats i adopted but i would def be willing to reimburse it all.
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I know it wouldn't work for small rescues, but for larger rescues with proper premises and a reception area, how about a sign with "this month's vet bill"?
Ooooo! Lovely. I think it could work for small rescues too?
This is a really good idea! I work as a designer at a sign company, I would suggest an A4 size acrylic sign with either holes for screw fixing or self adhesive on the back, It could have the text and then a space underneath to write the amount in with a dry-wipe pen.
I could ask if I could have some off-cuts of material & I could design and make them myself so It wouldn't cost anything.
If anyone would like one, please let me know and i'd be happy to help ;D
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I would love one Lindsey.
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I would love one Lindsey.
;D Great, I'll get something mocked up for you
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Well here's the thing, see, girls. :sneaky: If you put up a list of costs incurred to prepare a cat for rehoming, some people might think the cat is prone to illness or could suffer recurring problems similar to the ones listed in the future. They see a whacking great big bill and they worry it could all happen again in the future. :doh: Not that we ever mislead people and always alert a potential new owners if a cat is likely to have a perminant problem requiring ongoing treatment, BUT... :innocent:
Very often following a period of living rough, a stray cat's immune system is weak and they pick up all kinds of bugs, as well as injuries which need treatment. It can often be the case that a stray needs £200/£300 pound spent to bring them 'up to spec'. When they are declared fit and well enough for rehoming and go off to a home environment to proper care, they might never have another day's illness in their lives.
Ask yourself this... if you saw on a convenient brakedown of charges displayed beside an adoption pen that a cat needed 3 vet visits and 4 different prescriptions costing a total of £85 for dietry based problems, might you not suspect that the cat has bowel troubles? Might you not worry it could recur? :shify: I suspect you may think it's a strong possibility.... You'd be wrong because many strays suffer one off serious parasitic infestations which cause inflammed bowels and poor digestion as a result. :sneaky:
In short, no... I am not keen on the idea of displaying the bills for each cat and it is bound to harm that cat's chances of being offered a new home. :doh:
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Yes i can see ya very valid point there Julie :)
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Well having as many as some rescues have for homing living here at the Clan I see it from all sides!
I trap and neuter any ferals living in our area - I do however get a netuering voucher for them from my old branch of CP but we pay for a full de flea and worming tablet, Program Injection, Full set of boosters and of course an ID Chip should they decide that the outside for those who go back isn't what they want and if they stay inside sometimes we get them back again if we can catch them in the house - only cat who isn't ID chipped here is darling really nasty feral Ace but he is Profendered and wormed and is as healthy as a horse!
We also inject them all annually for everything and they also get 2 Program injectins annually and wormed every 3 months - and with my ferals it is a Bl==dy art form and spreadsheet :rofl:
We are also in 2 minds about baby Charlies leg as he is trying to use the leg even though it is at an odd angle and Robin thinks we should possibly give the leg a chance - that will be about £2500 should our vets and the orthopedic surgeon think its viable - amputation is £300 but Oh wants to get expert advice before we move forward - fortunately baby Charlie is to young for the decision yet.
So our bills for vets for thebasics are like this - Worming £160 a quarter = Program injections £30.00 twice a year, Boosters £30.00 per cat annually - thats for the ones who live in the house - outside varies and who I can convince to go back in a trap!
Our food bill is in excess of £7000 a year - inside and outside are fed the same wet and dry
We spend this because we are very lucky and we can do what we love doing helping ferals and those in need
On top of that I have the Clan doggies Sky and Sunny who are both on Program tablets, injections, kennel cough and of course food!
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What I am proposing to show is not the cost for each individual cat but the average cost for looking after a cat before it is homed. I will list the things I do normally, ie first vaccination, flea treatment, worming, micorchipping, and milk formula, baby wipes, kitten food, cat litter etc for an average 9 week period. I will also do one for adult cats to include neutering. I don't think we need to necessarily justify the extra expenses we spend but just showing the normal costs I feel more than justifies the £60 donation I ask for.
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Some very good points made about the "cost per animal" argument. I still can't help feeling though that many people go into animal ownership without any real thought as to what it will cost, and assume that if their cat or dog - or whatever - is a bit "under the weather" they'll be okay after a week or so (again, thinking of someone I know, here) and that neutering is unnecessary (especially if their particular pet is male gender) and vaccinations dangerous and just there to put money in a vet's pocket, and insurance is too expensive, or their missing cat has just "wandered off to die (cos cats do you know)....." etc etc.
I suspect we all know people who have impulsively added a pet to their family, and then a few months later are looking to dump it one way or another because of cost/alleged "allergy"/inconvenience/ill-health or because "they're too tying....." I also suspect if I ran a rescue, very few pets would be rehomed as I'd likely put potential owners off at the first grilling interview! :rofl:
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I still can't help feeling though that many people go into animal ownership without any real thought as to what it will cost.
Definitely,
I also suspect if I ran a rescue, very few pets would be rehomed as I'd likely put potential owners off at the first grilling interview! :rofl:
Me too :shify:
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I like promoting the overall cost to your rescue being advertised/highlighted in the reception/cattery maybe with the statement 'each cat costs the rescue a minimum of £££ for chip, flea, worm, vaccs etc ... we ask you for a minimum donation of £££.
AND / OR
rather than putting a 'costing' on each and every cat (which could be time consuming) just highlighting one or two. I would chose those individuals who had a 'one off' condition ie RTA, eye enuc etc.
I love that this idea is growing and Lindsey and Lesley are working together on it :). How about you give it a trial and then let us know the response?
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Yep, good idea Miranda - might be less off-putting to those who just need some gentle encouragement and enlightenment. :)
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That's a good idea, Miranda. A trial run with Lindsey and Lesleys concept....look forward to the findings.