Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat Health & Behaviour => Health & Behaviour General => Topic started by: Mark on July 24, 2010, 15:02:06 PM
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Some may remember Clapton's last dental where my old vet told me he was taking 2 of the remaining 4 out. As Clapton had been through it so many times, I said I wanted them all out. He told me it would be difficult. I said that was fine as long as I wasn't back in a few months with a poorly Clapton again. Afterwards, he told me he had got all the teeth out. He had been fine until yesterday (maybe a bit of a decline for a few days) when he went to eat and flinched away from the dish. He was doing it again this morning. I said to OH that maybe he had caught some food under a flap of gum or something. I phoned the vet this morning and took him straight there (a nightmare as the Whitstable Oyster Festival started today and the town is mobbed) the vet said he has 2 tooth stubs which are infected. Even worse, they are black in the centre which the vet said is necrotic. He is booked in for 1st thing Monday to go on fluids for 1/2 day before surgery. I forget what it is called but the vet said he needs to pack something into the holes to prevent the infection spreading into the bone.
I said I wanted to take my old vet to court but how do I prove that he told me he had taken them out when really he had filed them down?
He has had a Metacam jab. I asked if I coud take some home, but Craig said he doesn't want to compromise Clapton's kidneys. He said if Clapton is in pain tomorrow, I can take him back for another injection.
I want him to pay for doing this to Clapton :mad2:
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That's terrible Mark, I can't beleive that they outright lied to you! Hope the op goes well and that Clapton will be back to his normal self :hug:
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poor Clapton hope he does ok :hug:
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Oh no, poor baby :hug: :hug: :hug:
Its a disgrace that they lied to you about removing all Clapton's teeth last time, I would definitely take it further if you can have a bill or something which says the removal of 'x' teeth or something?
Please give Clapton a gentle head rub from me :Luv2:
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:( Poor Clapton.
I assume this would be a small claims action? Do you have access to all the veterinary records from that time - does your current vet have them? Would your current vet be willing to write a letter stating in his professional opinion it is bad practice to file down teeth and leave the stubs in place? Could you maybe printout all the Purrs threads from that time to use as evidence - they are in the public domain after all? If you can get enough circumstantial evidence together perhaps the old vet will settle out of court.
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OMG this is awful Mark, poor Clapton Hope he'll be ok after Monday and you can get the old vet to admit what he's done! :hug: :hug:
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perhaps the old vet will settle out of court.
It isn't anything to do with money * - it is about my poor boy suffering. What I really want to do is pin the old vet down and remove his teeth with a pair of pliers >:(
I really down think it is worth trying to build up a case as it is 4 years (or maybe 3 :-: - I lose track)
*Although I think the bill should be sent to him. I know OHs attitude is 'let it go'. I doubt it can be claimed on insurance as it will be considered ongoing. Thankfully OH has good job so a vet bill won't leave us short, but it is still wrong.
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Poor Clapton, I hope that all goes well for Monday :hug:
Byron has a few stumps Mark which I wasn't pleased about but my vet says not always can all the teeth be removed something to with the risk of some cats jaws breaking and same with Pepper not all his were able to be removed because of time and the anaesthetic and his general state of health. Schuis were all removed thankfully so I think it depends. The vet shouldn't have lied though, did another vet in the practise do the op I wonder and your vet not know, just wondering whether there may an explaination?
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Thats is appaling - I don't think your old vet should be allowed to get away with it! >:(
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not always can all the teeth be removed something to with the risk of some cats jaws breaking
I get that and he even said that beforehand, but after the op, he said he had removed all 4 remaining teeth. My current vet, Craig, said it is dangerous to make statements like that.
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The problem we have now is that although he is eating again. he has an aversion to his favourite water bowl - he must associate it with pain. We gave him some fresh in a different bowl and he had a bit but then wiced away from it. I guess the Metacam is helping the inflamed area but there is still pain in the nerves. I am so aware of how important it is to get plenty of fluid into a CRF cat. The reason he is in 1st thing on Monday is to get his fluids and sodium up before the GA so I was hoping for a head-start.
I have zapped some water in the microwave to take the chill off but he is still very wary. I also keep giving him more pouches of food with water added as he is licking the gravy - better than nothing but not enough really.
He can't have milk; not even cat milk as it gives him the squits which would be even more fluid loss.
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poor clapton...im so sorry to hear that he is suffering.....
Mark its a dreadful situation and i undestand how you want that vet to pay.....but many doctors, vets, dentists etc 'stick together' it woudl be his word against yours.....and to be honest it could end up with a long drawn out expensive court case with very little to show for it at the end....just an empty bank balancE...
I had a sore front tooth and i went to a dentist...before i knew it he did a root canal filling (i had no idea that was his intention!! i only went in to have it 'looked' at!) i came out feeling dazed.....within a few weeks the tooth started to go black at the top....long story short, the B*****d had broken my front tooth and it had cracked right the way through....iwent back to my old private dentist and pleaded with him to help me take this guy to the cleaners....but he just said we dont have any proof, it would be very difficult to proove that this was negligence.....
i lost that tooth eventually and ha to pay for a bridge...it broke my heart! :'( will never look the same again......and i was left with that ....
so whatever you decide, make sure you can back it up with evidence...or you could just be in for more heartach and a costly time
Clapton needs you to be the loving dad yo have always been.....and ive said it before...there are more good people in the world than bad...and that when people do a miss deed...THEY ultimately suffer....
love to you and yours hun xxxx
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not always can all the teeth be removed something to with the risk of some cats jaws breaking
I get that and he even said that beforehand, but after the op, he said he had removed all 4 remaining teeth. My current vet, Craig, said it is dangerous to make statements like that.
Why is it dangerous? :-:
eta: I'm trying to think of the explanation she gave me when I asked but tbh I can't remember as it's a while ago now. I don't know whether it's to do with certain cats jaws, age etc and when some teeth are difficult to extract for certain reasons and this risks then in breaking the jaw but Schui could have all his removed so it must be an individual thing. I'll ask my vet next time I go.
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Why is it dangerous? :-:
He meant it was dangerous to tell me all of Clapton's teeth were out when he had left 2 stumps in. Had I known, I would have found a way to keep an eye on them, as the likelihood is that they would have got infected or gone rotten at some point. I think he is a bit of an old-school vet who doesn't feel he needs to explain things.
As for taking teeth out, I was told that teeth that are rotten are easy to extract as they just crumble. Teeth that still have healthy roots are difficult to extract without causing damage. I am now wondering if he expected Clapton to die before there were any problems with the stumps?
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I see :)
Yep I think they do crumble maybe that's why it's difficult to grab and pull them, I don't know. But my vet did say that if the others trouble Byron - or Pep then they'd need abs now.
Your vet should really have warned you of that.
I wish I could remember but I'm think it might have been something to do with the roots too set in the jaw, I think it's only certain teeth too that have a risk of breaking the jaw. I've just looked in Byron's mouth and she still has the 2 lower front canines.
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poor clapton - I hope he gets on ok and will be pain free soon - I don't blame you for being angry Mark but I'm a bit of a Dennis myself on these things
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I am sorry to hear this, it is naughty of the vet to tell you his teeth had been removed when they hadn't. Fingers crossed he gets through the dental OK.
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Fingers crossed he gets through the dental OK.
Thanks :)
If he doesn't I guarantee the vet in question will pay dearly.
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Fingers crossed he gets through the dental OK.
Thanks :)
If he doesn't I guarantee the vet in question will pay dearly.
I'm sure that Clapton will be fine Mark the vet wouldn't do the op if he didn't think so :hug:
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perhaps the old vet will settle out of court.
It isn't anything to do with money * - it is about my poor boy suffering. What I really want to do is pin the old vet down and remove his teeth with a pair of pliers >:(
I really down think it is worth trying to build up a case as it is 4 years (or maybe 3 :-: - I lose track)
*Although I think the bill should be sent to him. I know OHs attitude is 'let it go'. I doubt it can be claimed on insurance as it will be considered ongoing. Thankfully OH has good job so a vet bill won't leave us short, but it is still wrong.
I am soooooooo sorry if I have given the impresssion that you are after financial gain - I am 110% confident you are not. I know you love your little family to pieces, I strongly suspect you'd eat beans on toasts for weeks on end if that was needed. :hug: Going to court will not stop this vet practicing, you can only get a little revenge and perhaps cash 'compensation' : which again I strongly suspect you would donate. :-[
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Mark out thoughts here at the Clan will be with Clapton, you and Dennis for todays op and we have a lot of crossed paws for you all :hug:
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Poor Clapton :(
My thoughts are with you all today
:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Thanks everyone :)
I feel awful this morning. Although he probably wouldn't be able to eat, OH told me he was sitting at the top of the stairs and to go & pet him. I can't as I know he is hungry. He ate some coley yesterday and I roasted some chicken pieces. He ate a little bit of that as well.
As he is still wary of the water bowl, I boiled the coley yesterday and saved the fishy water. He was quite happy to drink that from a different bowl. :)
As much as I would like the old vet to be held accountable, it isn't going to happen, so it isn't worth putting ourselves through the stress. I am trying to get my IBS under control to be able to go back to college. I still haven't confirmed my place yet as I'm not sure it will happen. We just have to let things go. The old vet is close to retirement and he isn't going to change his ways - As Dennis said, all we can do is think of now and what is best for the cats.
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Hope all goes well today xxx
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Good luck today, Clapton. :)
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I'm thinking of Clapton today, best of luck for him :hug:
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Thinking about Clapton today and sending positive vibes :hug: :hug: :hug:
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I left a saucer-eyed kitty at the vets this morning. Craig the vet is going to look after him. Craig finishes at 4pm so said he will be ready to collect by then. I went on to Tesco to stock up on catfood delicacies and fish, which no-doubt will be ignored later :evillaugh:
Instead of dwelling on it, I am just going to make the most of the few hours and get the nasty carpet shampoo monster out. He is petrified of it so I have to make the most of the time.
He is having his claws clipped and full bloods done at the same time.
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Hope it all goes well, Mark.
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Mark
Hope all goes well for Clapton today - :hug:
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Thinking of Clapton, you and OH today, Mark. Only just over 3 hours till he comes home :hug: :hug:
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hope he will be ok :hug:
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Sending lots of positive vibes for Clapton and a big :hug: for you Mark.
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Hope Clapton will be ok :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Thanks everyone. I just got a call. The surgery took longer than expected as they found further stumps under the gumline which would have erupted at a later date. Craig has saved them in a pot to show us just how much they removed.
They want to keep him in overnight on fluids to be on the safe side. They said he is coming round fine but it is just a precaution. I asked if I can phone later to see if there is an improvement - obviously I don't want to jeopardise his recovery but hate the idea of him being there overnight. They said to phone around 6pm and they will advise if he is well enough.
I'm really confused now. Is it acceptable that the old vet left lots of teeth roots in? - If I find out the previous vet is responsible, there is no telling what might happen to him >:(
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Mark so glad Clapton has made it through the op but so sad he has had extra work done - any chance you can pop in and see him just to put your own mind at rest :hug:
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Mark so glad Clapton has made it through the op but so sad he has had extra work done - any chance you can pop in and see him just to put your own mind at rest :hug:
I was thinking of that, but if he sees me and then I leave him again, it would probably be even worse for him?
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn224/MarkB_014/IMG_3130.jpg)
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn224/MarkB_014/IMG_3129.jpg)
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn224/MarkB_014/IMG_3128.jpg)
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I'd be furious if that were my old vet Mark, so can totally see why you are too :hug:
I'd be inclined to go see him too if you can, maybe take something which smells of home if he does have to stay overnight. Good that the vet has suggested this I think, always a positive when they suggest such precautions - when Max was supposed to have a dental they wanted him in overnight for fluids beforehand due to his kidneys, so its a good suggestion xx
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So glad that things have gone well, I've kept checking, bet you can't wait to see him :hug:
Aww lovely photos :Luv2:
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I was thinking of that, but if he sees me and then I leave him again, it would probably be even worse for him?
I can understand you thinking that I've always worried about that too Mark although a lot people disagree.
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What a dilemma Mark :hug: I would ask vet/VN and be guided by them as I don't think there is a right answer as to whether to visit him or not. I suppose if they think he seems very well, I would leave it as he will think he can come home when he sees you. However if he is a bit down perhaps a visit form you might perk him up? Real dilemma ....
In any event, I too have been checking for news and am delighted he has come through it all OK and would put any other thoughts of previous dental treatment on the back burner ...... for now
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I just phoned and they said he still has 1/2 bag of fluid so recommend he spends the night. Unlike my old vets, there is a nurse on duty, also a vet on call. She said he is curled up fast asleep. I thought what was best for Clapton and it is to leave him be. He is zonked at the moment and I don't want to confuse him any more. He will probably sleep most of the time and I will be there at opening time. At least I haven't got to worry about him being groggy and falling off things etc.
Something else that has just occurred to me is that they can probably give him another shot of Metacam if they think it is safe.
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Glad he seems content and sounds like he'll be well cared and agree I'd leave him sleeping too Mark. I know after I've had ops you just want to be left afterwards especially if still sleepy.
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Sending lots of love and huggles for Clapton along with lots of healing vibes xxx
Glad that the op went okay Mark :hug: - I can understand you being so mad at your previous vet, totally unprofessional and uncaring >:(
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Glad darling Clapton is OK, yes probably best he stays put for the night, let him sleep of the anaesthetic, and feeling much more perky tomorrow when you collect him :hug: :hug:
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Glad Clapton is ok and his surgery was successful :)
Its a shame its taken until now for him to be properly sorted (because of someone else's incapability) but at least now he will be comfy and happy...well done new vet :)
I know is horrible not having them home but I have both situations. My vets keep cats in overnight after a spay, both Soap and Marble came home feeling much better after an overnight stay. When Esco was castrated he had to have a bigger op cos he had an undescended testicle and it was 50/50 if he would stay overnight but he came home. He was soooooo groggy and floppy etc me and OH sleep downstairs with him for 2 nights.
Give him lots of love in the morning :)
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Thanks :)
I remember them saying once that the pain is worse for the first 2 days so I am hoping they can send him home with another Metacam shot. I suppose it must be safer than when it is taken orally?
I hope I'm not feeling queesy in the morning when they show me the pot of bits :sick: (it may be used in evidence :sneaky: )
For various reasons, we haven't had a holiday for quite a few years. I haven't spent a night apart from the cats in 5 years since we went away for 2 nights to a wedding.
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The sooner you get to sleep the sooner it will be the morning :)
My parents always used to say that to me the night before birthdays, holiday, christmas etc lol
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The sooner you get to sleep the sooner it will be the morning :)
My mum always said that too :)
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Poor Clapton -glad he is okay now and this vet sems to have done a good job !
Teeth are a nightmare for humans never mind cats -i should know-after all that last Sept in hospital having 2 out -i have had toothache again since Thursday and had to go to the emergency dentist today !
Hope he is home tomorrow :hug: :hug:
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Mark so glad that things went well and hope you can get a little sleep tonight your boy is in the best place :hug:
I bet you are waiting in the car park with a flask for them opening in the morning!
I only suggested going to see him as I always do - more for me I think but we usually spend an hour with them and a pile of treats before we come away - our vets are so good that they let us do it mind you they always add not many owners would do it so we are in a majority here at Purrs for that!
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I would have done it if I thought he would benefit, but OH agreed that it would be worse for him to see me and then for me to leave him again.
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Glad he got through it OK, and fingers crossed he is lovely and perky when you get him home - I would ask the vet's opinion on the roots. Injectible Metacam is better than oral, but in America it is only licenced for a one off shot (i.e. once in their life).
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Bet you can't wait to see him Mark - do you know when you can collect him?
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He is home ;D
The vet said he hadn't eaten at all and if he doesn't eat by tonight, to get him back for more pain relief. I tried Sheba Essences chicken (with binders) which he passed on - then one of the treats I bought yesterday, Tesco finest chicken cutlets (cat food :evillaugh: ) again with binders and he is lapping it up :)
Bad news is, the vet said he is in final stages of CRF :(
I have a printout - not sure if anyone has experience with these numbers
5.20 Phos
Creatinine was off the scale
Urea 46.4
ALT 154 (not sure what this is)
I assume WBC is white blood cells - it is the other one that is highlighted (but in blue) it is ever so slightly low. (normal is 5.50 - 19.50 and Clapton's is 5.44)
Not sure how reliable the figures are as it was done as a dilution. Craig said that we could retest in a month to see if the numbers have improved but nevertheless, he is nearing the end of the road :(
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Aww :( :hug:
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I have heard that some cats still do well with high numbers. He loves his grub :) - he has just eaten some Whiskas senior salmon - well at least the juice (I always add water) - which is good as the binders are in that.
Another good thing is he has gone back to his favourite water dish - I was worried that he associated it with pain. He is having a really good drink. I think that will help him as well. Willow used to hang around water bowls & fountain but barely drank anything.
I expected him to hate me and dive upstairs under the bed, but he is stretched out across the stairs. I just went and sat with him. He is purring and head-butting my hand.
Unless he wants to sleep, I will see if he wants a cuddle on the sofa. I will grab a book and make a day of it :sneaky: (bye bye housework :evillaugh: ) - Shame that I have a plumber coming this afternoon to fix the toilet in the attic.
Re the roots. Craig said fragments should not be left in. He said sometimes the bits are hard to remove, in which case they should be atomised - this is where they are broken into tiny pieces. The body will them reabsorb them.
PS - Clapton's breath stinks (stale blood smell :sick: )
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Aw bless him, I'm sure he's pleased he's back home with you again, even if his mouth is a bit sore :hug:
I cant remember much about the readings to be honest Mark, but do still have all of Max's printouts at home, so I'll have a look tonight. That Urea does sound pretty high though :hug:
My vet always said don't worry about the readings, you look after Clapton day in day out, so you're a much more reliable source of information than any old printout of readings :hug:
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Glad Clapton is home and has forgiven you Mark. Try not to stress too much about the numbers (the ALT is alanine transferase by the way, a liver enzyme). Yes they're high but you're doing everything you can for him and treating the cat not the numbers is always the best course of action at this stage. :hug:
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Thanks Clare :hug:
He has gone under the bed now. I have left him alone as he probably remembers being pulled out from under it yesterday. I have put a Savic Dog Residence Pad under there for him - hopefully he will lie on it.
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Mark
Glad that Clapton is back home with you and eating and drinking :hug:
Love the pictures of him with his paw up :Luv2: :Luv2:
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So glad that Clapton is home again :) and doing well.
Not sure about the results either Mark but will have a look at some of the records of mine over the years later.
I bet Clapton feels much better now and happy to be home, give him a big cuddle from me :hug:
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Sorry I didn't see this thread earlier Mark (due to my ME, I can only manage to read the odd post).
What a relief that the little trooper has pulled through and is now home. Hopefully he will have a snooze under the bed for a few hours, and then awake refreshed and tuck in to a plateful of food!
And I echo Carol's sentiments regarding the numbers - as long as he is still enjoying his food, try not to fret too much about them.
Metoo (RIP) had a urea level of 56 before he lost his appetite (and I never added binders to his food).
I hope that's of some comfort.
:hug:
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Hopefully he will have a snooze under the bed for a few hours, and then awake refreshed and tuck in to a plateful of food!
I know I have :evillaugh:
I went in to keep him company. I dozed on top of the bed to see if he would join me. I nearly always need a nap as my IBS causes fatigue and back pain to name a few. He really is a little trooper but not sure how much longer he can pull it off. It will be 4 years in October since he was diagnosed (I posted 5 years on another thread but sure it is 4). I read somewhere that 18 months from diagnosis is the average.
I suppose now is the time to start more research but the vet said it will take him for sure and all we can hope to do is slow it down a bit. I feel awful as the other day, Craig, the vet said he had something I might be interested in trying. I took the wind out of his sails by saying "What, Rubenal?, I saw the piece of paper in your drawer when you opened it" - he said yes it was :shy:. I said I bought some about 18 months ago. (OH said it was rude of me :-[ )
Anyway, As long as he is sleeping, he is healing and free from pain. One of the hardest things will be to stop his chicken & fish as he loves them both.
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One of the hardest things will be to stop his chicken & fish as he loves them both.
:( awww, won't you allow him a wee bit?
Glad he's you've had a good snooze :naughty:
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:( awww, won't you allow him a wee bit?
I will have to because it is the only way he will take a pill. The problem is he will want more. You know when you are hungry and somebody offers you a crisp?... :evillaugh:
(Well they used to - I don't think most people have manners like that any more)
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A lot of these procedures are relatively new areas. Many of the older vets have never been trained in animal dentistry. I know, for example, that my old dentist when I was a kid devoted every second Friday to doing dogs teeth. :evillaugh: The vet nurse would bring the dogs in, anaesthetise them, and the dentist would pull bad teeth out. :innocent:
Poor Clapton. :doh: Hope he's feeling better soon. :hug: :hug:
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Many of the older vets have never been trained in animal dentistry.
Obviously this one (RB Julie) hasn't :tired: - ironically he is a cancer specialist though :Crazy:
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Just realised. It was only the creatinine that had to be done as a dilution because it was off the scale. The reading is on another sheet - it is 628 - normal is 71 - 212 :(
I am trying to find a UK seller of Azodyl - it is a probiotic that is supposed to absorb some of the urea and creatinine. I saw a video on youtube where it was recommended by a vet, as well as EPA & DHA Omega 3s - they have to be quality marine sourced.
I have also just ordered every kind of renal food I can fin from zooplus. Obviously binders on regular food isn't enough and he really has to have reduced protein as well at this stage.
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Sorry to hear his numbers have gone up Mark, but if he seems well in himself, he might be coping with them. I wouldn't stress too much if he wont eat the new renal food (although there was one on Zooplus that Rosie would eat, despite not liking any of the 4 from the vets), quality is better than quantity.
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We can't afford to mess around so yesterday I searched under 'phosphorus' and 'renal' and ordered the minimum amount of all the renal foods they sell (except Hill's & RC as we already have those) as well as renal treats. It came to £70 :Crazy: - but I know we have to find a way. I also have some "Specifics" renal wet which he will eat once in a while. Also, as much as I am against Iams, I am going to order some Eukanaba renal as I am not going to be 'Jehovah' about it. My principles will have to go on hold. I remember him eating some when I got it for Willow before.
He had diarrhea last night - luckily onto a tiled bathroom floor. He also had a bit of a leak overnight on the bed - again, luckily onto a bunched up bedspread which is now on pre-wash.
It is such a hard call as the vet said if he won't eat, he will have to go for another Metacam jab. He just can't afford any kidney damage - also the stress has to be considered. At the same time, he must eat. He keeps attempting, but all he has eaten is a bit of fish and a bit of chicken - the 2 things he shouldn't be having. Luckily he had his benazecare tablet in the fish.
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How come the vet said he can't have chicken or fish, seeing as renal food is made with both of those? The woman who owns our vet practice told me to give Zi chicken, but I know my new vet is against it.
I personally would let him eat the chicken and fish until his mouth feels better - eating something is more important at the moment, especially if it means he can avoid a Metacam jab, as that could make his kidneys even worse.
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I am letting him have whatever he will eat but the chicken & fish thing is more of a long-term issue as muscle meat is high in phosphorus (offal is the worst offender) I'm sure they modify it in renal food to reduce the protein and phosphorus. Phosphorus overload is what makes them feel ill and nauseous so it is a downward spiral. I'm pretty sure they add calcium in renal food to bind it. I was quite surprised that his calcium levels were fine given that he has it added to every meal. The vet said I should load his food with binders but we need to be careful we don't go the other way as obviously they must have some phosphorus. He suggested plenty of binders and retest in a month. I'm sure the fact that he had an infection & wasn't eating of drinking properly will have given him elevated numbers? - On the bright side, the vet said he wasn't anaemic.
I want to see how he goes today as after all, a metacam jab will only last 24hrs and is likely to do more harm than good. I am going to try some k/s and RC renal sprayed with 'bon appetit' in a minute.
Last night I boiled some already cooked chicken pieces up for an hour to make them go soft. He attempted to eat it but gave up after a few attempts. He is obviously hungry but sore - which oddly is better than the other way round. I would be more concerned if he had no appetite.
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Mark, having 'been there and done it' as it were, the most important thing is to keep him eating, whethers its renal food, senior food with binders, or even handfed chicken if that's what he really wants.
As I also know, with CRF things can happen so quickly, so please don't beat yourself up that you need to try this, or that to make him better, as sadly that's the one thing you can't do hun :( :hug:
Clapton's a strong lad, and even with those readings I reckon he's going to be with you for a long old time - its amazing sometimes how much love can do!!!!
This is probably all coming out wrong, not good with words at the mo as its all so close to home (a year on Friday)............all I'm trying to say is that you will always do your best for him, but don't sweat it if you can't get him to eat other food and things :hug:
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I am probably teaching you to suck eggs here... but have you thought about liquidising the sachet of the renal?
(I remember the RC tuna was one of Metoo's favourites).
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I had the hand blender out last night to blend him some Sheba Essences Chicken (normally his favourite). He just hates RC & Hill's renal. I still buy them but about 11 1/2 out of 12 pouches get wasted. Until he is eating properly, I will just have to let him eat whatever he fancies. Even when he is on form he doesn't like renal food. Although I ordered lots of German brands yesterday, I will order some purina & Eukanuba renal today as in the past I have had better luck with them - even then it is hit or miss. It is really frustrating.
I have been on the phone to Vetoquinol UK today to find out if I can buy Azodyl (It is supposed to reduce Creatinine & Urea levels) anywhere in the UK. She said it isn't being sold in Europe at all. I told her that I have seen it on eBay for £25 + £25 delivery. She said to bear in mind that it needs to be kept chilled so isn't sure how effective it would be by the time it arrived. After looking at Tanya's CRF site, I have found out it is a probiotic but enteric coated. I am trying to find the same strains in a brand available in the UK. They are enteric coated but I can buy empty enteric capsules on eBay. As it is, it says on Tanya's site that they Azodyl is sold in No1 size capsules which are huge, so probably wouldn't be any good anyway.
Luckily there is a nutrition centre about a 3 minute walk from here so I am going down there in a while. I also need to get Marine sourced pharmaceutical grade Omega EPA & DHA. I found the brand the the American vet recommended on the youtube video but in the UK, it only comes in Apple, Berry or Lemon flavours :tired:
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awww Mark, give him a gentle snuzzle from me...poor baby..... :hug:
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He has barely eaten today. He ate a bit of Tesco finest tuna (complete meal) just now. I have been trying to let OH know that he is in final stages and it sank in tonight. OH said he was on the bed and Clapton came and sat on his chest. He started crying which led to a coughing fit and Clapton had to get off. He had almost convinced himself that Clapton won't last the night. I said he is fine and once his mouth is better there is no reason he can't be well for some time. As Clapton is OHs cat really, I had to repeat what the vet told me the other day; "You will have to know when to let go" - it isn't fair on me or OH to keep these things to myself.
Anyway, unless he eats reasonably by the morning, I will take him back to the vet. He can't exist on so little food.
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healing vibes Mark..is he drinking?
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Mark have you tried Cat Milk or goats milk I know we have used both when they aren't eating
Also evapourated milk and tuna in spring water blitzed up works a treat to for those not wanting to eat more lap it down
:hug:s to you and Dennis and of course Clapton
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Will Clapton drink cat milk Mark? Its not ideal, but its definitely a good way to get some nutrients into him is he's only eating a little at the moment.
I wonder if the vet could give him a steroid to kick-start his appetite again? I have no idea on their effect with CRF though, sorry, not very helpful :-[ :hug:
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Yes he is drinking which I said to OH is the most important thing, although he can't survive for long on water alone.
The seagulls think it is christmas - I have opened about 15 different foods today :Crazy:
I have one Tesco finest shredded chicken tin + some posh sheba domes to tempt him with. His absolute favourite thing which is probably the worst thing for him is Pork.
I got an email saying my Zooplus order was despatched today - anyone know how long it will take?
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sorry to hear about Clapton not doing so well. Candie my CRF cat was given mirtazapine to get her to eat. It did help for a while :hug:
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Will Clapton drink cat milk Mark?
It gives him the runs at the best times so I can't risk him being dehydrated. I am guessing that the vet will give him Metacam and a steroid jab tomorrow. I am really hoping he will be eating by them so we don't have to put him through all that.
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gums heal pretty quickly as long as they dont get infected.....and if the lad is drinking and resting im sure he will perk up soon.....prayers for this specail boy.....and hugs to you both too xxx :hug:
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sorry to hear about Clapton not doing so well. Candie my CRF cat was given mirtazapine to get her to eat. It did help for a while :hug:
I really don't think he has appetite issues - I'm sure it is just where his mouth is sore, although with not eating for so long, his appetite has been affected.
He looked like a chipmunk still this morning but it has gone down during the day - I am really hoping he wakes up hungry and able to eat in the morning. He is trying but just seems to shake it around and the food goes all over the place. I am sure it is the swelling & tenderness.
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gums heal pretty quickly as long as they dont get infected.....and if the lad is drinking and resting im sure he will perk up soon.....prayers for this specail boy.....and hugs to you both too xxx :hug:
I think the issue here is the infection went to the bone. The vet had to put a powder on to prevent the bones getting worse. I was surprised they only charged for a complex dental. (The surgery part of the bill was £95)
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When Mollie was run over, her jaw was wired back together, she couldnt eat as her mouth was a mess....we offered her watered down food and she licked up/ ate tiny tiny bits of food..it was a worrying time ...she did manage to drink...sleep/rest is a great healer too....I am sure this lad will pull through he has a lot of positive prayers coming his way :) xxxxxxx
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He just had a proper go at some food ;D
He winced a few times but was determined. He only managed about 1/3rd of a Sheba pate tray but that is good :) - he even wolfed down the chunk with his benazecare in - I never would have got away with it with a fortekor boulder.
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Sounds like his pain must be easing...YAY :)
See he would like some fizzt drinks and sweets...that's what I had when I was 9 and had to have a broken baby tooth removed. I went completely against my dentists advice cos I was going to a disco...but I felt a hell of a lot better ;)
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See he would like some fizzt drinks and sweets...that's what I had when I was 9 and had to have a broken baby tooth removed. I went completely against my dentists advice cos I was going to a disco...but I felt a hell of a lot better ;)
I remember when I was about 5. I thought it would be a great idea to take a broom onto a slide. I put the handle in my mouth and went down the slide :Crazy: - After smashing the roof of my mouth and having my mouth washed out with liquid paraffin - apparently the only way they could stem the bleeding. Anyway, my mum asked me what I wanted - which was a sweet necklace :evillaugh: - I remember it so clearly :evillaugh:
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:) thats great news Mark! brava Clapton!......i bet he will get a lot better in no time! :Luv2:
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Mark, it might be worth asking the vet for some a/d, very few cats can resist it. They also wouldnt be able to give both a steroid and a Metacam jab, so I would ask which they think will help him more, and I would be swaying towards a steriod jab as he has had Metacam already. I remember when Snowy had all her teeth out (my first toothless cat), I put her biscuits through the food processor and mixed that in with wet food, do you think you could do that with his renal biscuits?
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So pleased he managed to eat more last night Mark and hoping he's back to normal this morning :hug:.
Last night I was looking for my posts when Freddie had most of his teeth out as I think I'm right that it took a couple of days before he started eating normally. It was October 2006 though so just pre Purrs so I'll have posted on Catchat....
I know this will all have been a bit of a nightmare for you, Dennis and poor Clapton of course so sending you all a :hug: each
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He isn't eating anything today :(
He is curled up under the bed. We had high hopes as he was following us around first thing - but now he is curled up under the bed.
We have dozens of different foods and he won't touch any of them. I am leaving it for a bit a he is getting upset. I am getting ready and will phone the vet to see if I can get a home visit. OH is home this morning so I am going to drive to Canterbury to get his favourite food in the world - Asda butter basted turkey breast - it has no additives. He will even devour it dusted in binders. I have tried Tesco and Sainsbury's version but they don't have the same effect. I tried the Kerry one last week and he wouldn't touch it - he normally folls me around crying for more with the Asda one. If that doesn't work, nothing will.
When willow was dying we bought a/d to force feed her.We offered some to clapton them and he wouldn't touch it - I will try it again though. Ditto with liquivite.
I made up some Cimicat this morning and he won't touch that either.
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Poor Clapton, sometimes after anaesthetics the appetite can go, hopefully he'll soon start to pick up.
Does he like the Hi-Life pates? mine love those and they would be soft although I'm having trouble getting them atm.
Mine also love the Coop food in the foil trays or may be a bit of salmon? it's awful trying to get them to eat though :(
hopefully he'll feel like some of his favourite chicken later :hug:
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I don't really have any advice Mark , sorry , just wanted to say you , OH and Clapton are in my thoughts and prayers xxx :hug: :hug:
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Thanks Kirst :hug:
The vet came while I was out so OH dealt with him/it. Apparently, he had a metacam shot +another shot of something OH can't remember the name of, which is a Morphine-type painkiller (but not Morphine) he said it sounded like Ecko something? - He also left oral metacam for emergency use only.
He thinks it is pain rather than appetite that is preventing him from eating.
He also looked at Clappy's mouth and said it was still a bit bloody. He said it isn't surprising given what he went through - but it was necessary. He said it should take a few hours before he wants to eat. We are to phone them again if he isn't eating by tomorrow, although no idea what will happen then.
Anyway, I have his special Turkey but I will wait until he has got over his visit. I think if I push it on him too early, it could be a mistake.
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Poor Clapton, sometimes after anaesthetics the appetite can go, hopefully he'll soon start to pick up.
Does he like the Hi-Life pates? mine love those and they would be soft although I'm having trouble getting them atm.
Mine also love the Coop food in the foil trays or may be a bit of salmon? it's awful trying to get them to eat though :(
hopefully he'll feel like some of his favourite chicken later :hug:
He doesn't like the Hi-life pates which is a shame. I very nearly got some in Asda - they are 4 for £1 in there. I got him some Sheba trays and a couple of Tetra-paks of Top-life that Gillian mentioned. I am not even going to try my luck with any renal food until he is eating properly.
I have tried the co-op foils but none of them will touch them :Crazy:
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my last resort with a very fussy Siamese was plaice fillets - the side without the skin
it seems to be a very soft fish
with Trigger it is the little tins of John West Dressed Crab - very intense flavour and smell, and totally mushed
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Aw he's being such a brave lad, please give Clapton a big cuddle from me :Luv2:
Hope he fancies something to eat a bit later on :hug:
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Well he has eaten 60g of Turkey a la Ipakitine :) - I will give it a break now as I don't want him bringing it up.
I will go up there for a nap to keep him company in a minute :Luv2:
I feel sorry for OH who was convinced he wasn't going to make it through the night - OH does agree that one of us has to be hard-nosed about these things (that is my job :evillaugh: )
Dennis left at 1.30pm to go on a work awayday (staying in Oxford the night before) but at least I have been able to text good news :) - Obviously the next stage is to give him something with vitamins etc in. Then work up to renal.
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Brilliant that he's eaten ;D ;D
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Great news! I'd spoil him for a few days to keep things going and build his appetite back up ;)
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Well I can confirm its sunny in Oxford atm so hopefully Dennis can enjoy the sights lol!
I'm glad Clapton has eaten something , lets hope his little mouth is less sore tomorrow :hug:
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It obviously is still sore as he keeps flinching away. He drank half of the Cimicat so I have made more. He is even flinching with that. He had 2 bites of a sheba pouch. I have just warmed a sheba tray and hope he eats some. I am beginning to lose hope. :(
ETA - not long after I typed the last post. I saw Clapton sitting in the hallway where he usually waits for food ;D
I warmed a tray of Sheba terrine and for the first time in a week, he really went for it :) - he has only managed about 1/2 and some is on the floor but he really did have a good go.
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Mark. Clapton has got me up and down like a yo yo :-: :hug:
Couldn't think what to post earlier and just hoped for some mprovement tomorrow. I'll now sleep better tonight in the certain knowledge that that is enough food to see him OK through the night.
He WILL be much improved tomorrow. I can just feel it :hug: :hug:
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Sorry not posted before :hug: Just read all the way through - what a rollercoaster! So glad he's starting to eat a bit now though, keep it up Clapton :Luv2:
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Thanks everyone :hug:
OH is texting me instructions on how Clapton prefers to be petted - as if I didn't know :Crazy:
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Way to go Clapton !! :wow: :Luv:
:hug:
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He is quite perky this morning. He has sampled 4 different foods but flinching. Annoyingly I don't have any Whiskas senior in gravy as it is nice and soft. He went off it a while ago. I found a random pouch but I will have to go out and get some more. I will have to go soon as parking here in the summer is a nightmare. I will have to get to Sainsburys before the daytrippers arrive.
His demeanour is so different this morning. So much so, that I am quite happy to leave him for an hour or so without worrying. :)
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;D so glad to hear this, hope things keep improving :hug:
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Well I can confirm its sunny in Oxford atm so hopefully Dennis can enjoy the sights lol!
There was no sightseeing to do :evillaugh:
They were going to do some work, followed by dinner. They have booked a conference room at the hotel and will work until 4pm then all make their way home. I suppose some might stay on but OH will be heading straight home.
Dennis said he will make the next one is nearer home. Faversham is top of the list (15 minutes from here :evillaugh: ). They can do the brewery tour (Shepherd Neame), followed by a 4 course dinner with a matching beer :evillaugh:
This time it was to suit suit that live North of London - ie MK & Northampton, but it will be the Southerners turn the next time.
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Glad he is improving and eating more.
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Glad he is improving and eating more.
Thanks - he still isn't eating enough. I think it needs to be something he loves to make him fight through the pain to eat. I will buy lots of Sheba pate trays today as he seems to make an effort to eat them. Warmed slightly, they go sloppier as well. It is a shame he won't eat Gourmet Perle as the texture is probably right for him. Although the vet said not to give him biscuits, I have left out some purina renal biscuits as he can just hoover them up. After previous dentals, he went for biscuits before wet.
Really annoying. I just checked Mysupermarket to see where Whiskas senior is on offer. It looks as if Asda is the only place. I was only there yesterday to get his turkey and didn't notice. It is a 14 mile round trip + one of the main roads is closed for repair so it was a mare getting there. I will just have to pay full price in Sainsbury's :tired:
(I just did a search - 'Whiskas senior gravy mysupermarket' )
SOMETHING TO REMEMBER THOUGH - WHISKAS IS ON LONG TERM OFFER IN ASDA - UNTIL 28/12 ;D
http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/tesco-price-comparison/Cat_Food/Whiskas_Pouch_Senior_in_Gravy_12x100g.html
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Maybe not, but he's going in the right direction, and that is the most important thing. I would get a pouch of AGAIL, if he likes it, as that is similar texture to Gourmet Perle, but a tad harder cos it is in jelly rather than gravy. Whiskas Oh So chicken has been a saviour for more than one of my cats with poorly mouths. I have had cats that favour biscuits over wet after a dental, Rolo even managed dental biscuits the same week as having 11 teeth out!!
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That is what I think about biscuits. They swallow them whole so they are probably easier to eat than chunks of wet food.
I have bought AGAIL, Oh So and marinades a few times but it never gets eaten. I will see if I can get a few single pouches. I know sainsbury's sell 400g cans of Oh so in singles - I haven't seen them anywhere else. They also sell 400g cans of felix senior in 6 packs - again the only supermarket I have seen it in.
Just reminded me - in the past he has liked Sainsbury's own premium food - single pouches are 24% chicken (or is it 14%) - anyway, I will get some.
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So glad he's eating Mark, it may not be as much as he should be right now, but its definitely a step in the right direction, as Desley already said.
So pleased he's a bit perkier all round today as well, he must be feeling a bit better which is excellent :Luv2: :Luv2:
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:)
I just went up to the ground floor and he had been down for another go at the Whiskas senior in gravy - plenty on the floor but looks as if he managed to get some more down him :)
I'm sure he has been sorted this time. I forgot to say, Craig took a couple of photos of Clapton's mouth on his phone before he operated - that speaks volumes to me.
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:) woderful news! im soooooooooo pleased! gentle hugs to our boy! :hug: now RELAX mark!!! :hug:
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:wow: yup great news!
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Well done Clapton! :Luv:
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Yay , well done Clapton! ;D
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Great news! ;D
(My OH just came home from the vets with Olive & jasmine - booster time, and was advised Olive needs a dental.
I'm beginning to get anxious and panic already.)
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Well done gorgeous man. :) :hug:
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Hope he is still eating more Mark
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He ate some more Hill's k/d this morning but we are worried as he is hanging around water bowls and even Kylie's fountain which he never uses. I am keeping a close eye on him.
It's really odd that he has been out in the garden several times since yesterday. I think he may have a furball but he won't take any paste. I even chopped grass up for him but he won't eat it. He has tried (without any luck) to eat some himself in the garden.
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While extra drinking isn't that good with kidneys, at least it is helping them flush out - the vet thought drinking was part of the reason Zi's kidney values came down so much despite being on Metacam, as she only has renal dry.
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my cats like to eat grass offered as a long strand, held above their mouths
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How's Clapton doing Mark?
Did you get my pm? don't know if you saw but this was posted on the Renal food thread on CC, Desley asked me to let you know:
'I've just found a senior wet food that my CRF cat loves. Its Pets at Home supermeat pate and its 9.5% protein, 0.25% calcium and 0.2% phosphorous which is the lowest phosphorous I've found'
Actually Byron and Pep eat this and love it, I've never noticed the values but it's probably doing them some good.
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Sorry Jane, I forgot to reply :-[
I will give it a try. I was going to work out the dry-matter number which I think must be around 1%
Anyway, he isn't doing so good :(
His appetite is still very poor. He also doesn't seem to be drinking enough, even though I am leaving out fish water etc. He hasn't had meds for 3 days as he refuses to touch chicken or turkey & that is the only way. OH agrees that trying to pill him will stress him too much. I am trying to arrange another home visit today.
I am getting quite concerned about him. We can't have him permanently poorly. He is looking quite frail :(
I have at least 50 food choices, including around 10 renal. He decided to eat a bit of Hill's renal pouch yesterday after refusing all regular food. Also, I know it isn't ideal, but I gave him a sausage yesterday and he ate it (over a few hours)
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:( Oh dear glad he enjoyed his sausage though it's something. Mine would never eat any renal so I've not bothered the vet said eating well is much more important than not eating or eating just a bit of renal plus if they are miserable that's not good.
I hope you can get him to eat something he likes :hug:
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aww :(
I hope he manages to pick up, Ollie was a bit strange after his dental but started to eat his normal foods again, I hope Clapton can too very soon :hug:
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Hopefully Clapton is getting a home visit later. I think my vets is permanently overstretched. I explained that due to his condition atm, doing a 10-mile round trip won't do him any good. She said if he is that bad, then maybe he needs to go back on a drip. I said I didn't think that was the answer. It would stress him out so much. So he is provisionally booked for a 2pm visit. She said that if I haven't heard by 3pm to call in case they are really busy. I think I need to rethink the vet situation long term. They are great vets but...
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Thats is, the vets I use are 10miles away but they are good vets, thats why I keep going there. There are closer vets in the area but I dont think they would understand Ollie's condition, my vet has been seeing him for years and he still cant work him out :shy:
You need to do whats best for Clapton and if that means getting him to a closer vets to reduce his stress then I think that would be the way to go :hug:
How old is he now Mark?
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I have everything crossed for Clapton's vet visit this afternoon (including him actually getting it :-: )
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He's about 11 CC - We don't know exactly as he was a stray.
I'm in 2 minds about the vet visit now. He came down and had a pouch of Hill's k/d (well all the gravy and about 1/4 of the chunks) then had a little lie down in the shaft of sunlight in the hall. He is now back upstairs on the bed. If the vet comes, it will be 2 steps back as he will go back under the bed for a couple of days and it could set back his recovery. I think I will phone them again and ask for some phone advice based on me running him over there if need be. Cost doesn't come into it - we just want what is best for him :Luv2:
I'm a bit concerned about the runny poos still, but there is no way I could medicate him.
Edit - I found a tub of Nutrifyba in the cupboard but it is out of date :tired: - also it is discontinued. I wonder if it would be ok to sprinkle a tiny amount of psyllium husk on his food? - I will ask the vet. I have some regular and some ground. The health shop down the road also sells some with probiotics added - maybe that would be better?
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Sending loads of healing viibes for Clapton. :hug: :hug:
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Thanks :)
He has just been down for a little nibble of Hill's k/d and at last some water from his old dish and there was no wincing!
Had a long chat with the vet. He thinks I should just keep an eye atm and if he isn't going solid poos after the weekend to look at him - He said it is purely a guess but it could be down to change of diet + the stress. He also thinks slow recovery is only to be expected with the soft-tissue surgery he had.
I have had 4 replies from my post on the CRF forum. 3 of them were telling me not to allow my vet to give Metacam with links to the Metacamkills website, but one was from a very nice lady in Florida offering to send me 6 bottles of Azodyl packed in ice. She said she knows how it feels to try anything. She rescues strays and has lost 2 of them to CRF.
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This is incredible. Along with the 1/2 dozen Metacam warning emails, I also received one from a lady in Florida who has offered to send me 6 bottles of Azodyl ;D - She usually sends them to a friend in Romania who has asked her to hold-fire during the warm weather. I have offered to pay but she has refused. She said she is retired and uses her spare money to give to animal charities. She said as long as her money is helping an animal in some way, it is all the same to her :) - naturally we are going to ask her what her favourite animal charity is and want to make a donation in her name. I really can't believe the kindness of some people - all we seem to hear is horror stories so it really was a surprise. She has lost 2 strays she took in to CRF in the last year :(
She is going to pack them in the ice packs they arrived in and send them priority mail so we can get Clapton on it straight away. She said her friend in Romania has reported good results with it :)
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What a nice lady :) I hope it helps Clapton.
Has his appetite improved slightly at all? Do you think he could be picking up on you worrying about him eating and that's making him feel pressured? I know animals can be sensitive to how we are...
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P.s. I was actually online on the laptop the other day and say a pic of Clapton *luv*
Did you name him after Eric Clapton or am I wayyyyyy off point lol?
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His appetite has picked up but it is far from normal. Also, he is really only interested in high phosphorus rubbish mainly. As the vet said, eating the wrong food is much better than eating nothing, so we are working on that. He loves the 'Happy Cat' renal dry and the 'integra protect' renal dry so as long as he is eating that with a small amount of treat food and plenty of water, we are more than happy for the time being :Luv2:
I also have another renal food in the wings but only looked at the pack today and it is 0.6% Phosphorus - most renal dry is between 0.3 & 0.4% so I will hold off on this one for now.
He snuggled up with me for a nap this afternoon and is gradually beginning to give me washes :evillaugh:
He was named after where the rescue (SNIP) found him - Lower Clapton Road in Hackney AKA as murder mile :scared:
This is him in his younger days (6/7 years ago) I would give anything to see him like this again
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn224/MarkB_014/IMG_0986.jpg)
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn224/MarkB_014/IMG_0984.jpg)
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn224/MarkB_014/IMG_0987.jpg)
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn224/MarkB_014/IMG_1097.jpg)
Our favourite Clapton photo :Luv2:
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn224/MarkB_014/IMG_0963.jpg)
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Love the gummy smile - such a handsome boy! :Luv2:
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:Luv: Lovely photos and wise vet words, I think. In my experience with oldies the happiest live the longest they've something to keep going for. I used to be fussier but over the years have got less and less and now let mine have what they want and if you could see Byron she's so old and bedraggled now but she's, spoilt, happy and keeps going.
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He's such a handsome boy, its hard when we see them getting older :hug: :hug:
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He just came down for food. As he has been a good boy eating renal dry, I allowed him 3/4 of a little gourmet gold tin and was wolfing if when I left him to it.
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Excellent ;D
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Brilliant ;D , hope he continues to pick up :hug:
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;D so pleased!
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Glad he's eating better :hug: are his poos still runny? ask your vet for Fortiflora probiotic, its worked brilliantly for the foster kittens - its a powder just sprinkled over food - smells like marmite to me ;)
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Thanks Gillian - I will check it out, although he is producing sold poos now, although no always in the tray - the bathroom seems to be a favourite spot. He has some probiotics arriving in the next few days hopefully (azodyl) so I will check if the strains are the same. One of the reasons I haven't posted is because his appetite comes & goes. I'm not sure that he has eaten at all today. He finally started taking his meds yesterday as I found something he goes mad for - Tesco Finest roast beef slices. I know they are not the best thing but I have to let him have something. OH is on leave this week and is up in the bedroom with him. I mentioned how light Clapton is and OH misted over. One thing that I am so glad I got is the German brand of renal food - 'Happy Cat', because if anything, he eats that - Alice also likes the senior version of it. He sicked up some foamy stuff this morning. Not sure if it is furrball or stomach acid. I think I will look into getting some Pepcid AC just in case. He seemed a lot better after he was sick and was really purry.
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Hope he is doing better today Mark, and I really would let him eat what he wants to eat wet food wise,
regardless of the phosphorus levels - quality has to be more important than quantity, and the wet food will be better for his kidneys because of the moisture levels. SEB can also be used to help stomach acid in CRF cats.
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I think him having the watered down juice from wet with the renal dry is probably better. He is also drinking water from the bowl so dehydration isn't really an issue. I have been checking the skin on his neck. The vet said we really need to get his numbers down. They really are (or were) through the roof. Eating the Happy Cat dry is his choice - he must enjoy it :) - He seems a lot better in himself which is the main thing :Luv2:
It would be different if he wanted regular wet food but he is choosing to eat the renal dry. The odd thing is, he has stopped eating all the things he loved before his mouth was done - he won't even eat chicken now and it was always his favourite. He is having a little bit of Tesco finest roast beef every day. It is quite rare and very tender. It is the only thing he will take his pill with. Also I think the fact that it is high quality protein makes it better than a lot of other things he could eat.
I will did out the SEB but I think he is OK at the moment now he is eating again.