Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat Health & Behaviour => Health & Behaviour General => Topic started by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on July 01, 2010, 16:40:53 PM
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My littel 3 legged boy Ducha has hurt his only back leg and is on metacam from today.
I know many of you have used matecam..............does it make them hungry or sleepy please? Does it have a taste?
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Lexy's been on Metacam for 10 months, and she's fine. I pop the drops on her food, she doesn't even notice its there and this is a cat that can sniff a pill before you've unwrapped it!
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Thanks Ruth ;D
Ducha cant be pilled at all and on food would be ideal but he doesnt eat regularily enough for it to go on food so gonna have to be squirted into his mouth..........sigh
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I had no problems at all with Tom taking his Metacam drops Gill. Important to try and give with food though if I recall as can unsettle tummy otherwise. I don't recall any other side effects. I think it does have a taste but I think it's a rather nice taste as initially Tom used to lick it off a large bit of dry cat food until I realised it really should be taken with more food than one piece of dry kibble :-[
Am sorry to hear about Ducha's swollen knee and hope vet is right that it should be fully better within 5 days or so. Poor little lamb chop :care: :care:
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Ooo :-: I stand corrected. Seems OK to give with or without food. Funny I cudda sworn.... ah well
"To be administered orally either mixed with food or directly into the mouth".
http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Boehringer_Ingelheim_Limited/Metacam_0_5_ACY-nbsp_ADs-mg_ml_Oral_Suspension_for_Cats/-40679.html
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:thanks: Rosella
Richard said it was a syrup so maybe its sweet?
He didnt say anything about it being a problem if not with food grrrrrrrrrr all I know is that he ate loads for him when we got home. I must look at the box to see if it has a leaflet in like in human medicines.
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Did ya see my 2nd post Gill? :-[
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My vet told me it must be given with food. It is the same for cats as humans. NSAIDS can cause haemorrhaging otherwise. Maybe it's OK to squirt in the mouth after food?
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No I didnt Rosella and I looked at leaflet and it does not say it has to be given with food,
Cant remeber what that abbreviation means Mark?
I know that the leaflets always are over cautious a nd there is usually a lot of room for manouvre and the leaflet said stuff that I would be worried about but the vet obviously isnt.
I just wish I could stop him bloomin jumping around and going up and down stairs cos sure that would help.......sigh
I am sure moving around is probably good for him but not as much as he is doing.
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Cant remeber what that abbreviation means Mark?
Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug - ie most painkillers. They irritate the lining of the stomach unless given as an injection. I had a problem with my foot last year but because of my stomach problems, the doctor wouldn't give me painkillers as he said it will aggravate the condition. It was the same with Alice, the vet didn't want her on metacam for her arthritis as she has gastric issues.
They are also a problem for CRF cats. As well as causing kidney damage over time, they have the opposite effect to CRF drugs which open up capillaries to increase blood flow - NSAIDs shrink them to reduce blood flow (& inflammation)
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How long does he have to have it for Gill? When was the last time he had bloods? I would be reluctant to give MEtacam to an oldie for more than a couple of days without knowing what their liver/kidneys are like - I thought Zi would be OK cos she had only had bloods done 8 months previously, but she showed signs of CRF within days of being on it. If he starts drinking or weeing excessively, ring the vet asap. Also, did they weigh him to make sure he was getting an accurate dose, as you can overdose on MEtacam at very small levels? You do have to give with/after food, and it is very sweet, like a honeyish smell. I thought they might have changed that when they brought out the cat version.
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The NOAH link is very good Gill so I'm posting it again altho this time on the contra indications page which covers what Mark and Desley have mentioned. If you click on the "previous" and "next" buttons you will get a more complete picture. I imagine it covers what the leaflet says but I find NOAH easier to read tbh
http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Boehringer_Ingelheim_Limited/Metacam_0_5_ACY-nbsp_ADs-mg_ml_Oral_Suspension_for_Cats/-40680.html
ETA to say
Gill mentioned on Alison's thread Desley that vet hopes Ducha's knee will be OK within 5 days or so so not expecting Metacam needed long term and
I've emailed the makers about whether to be given with or without food (it's an OCD thing and of course only want the best for Ducha :) ) and
to send a few more :care: :care: :care: to our lovely lad and to whispa "slow down kid....."
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ergh that stuff reeks :shy:
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Mebbeee to the hooman nose but it's da feeeeline nose wot counts :)
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A vet from manufacturers of Metacam just rang me to say it doesn't have to be given at meal times as long as cat has an appetite and is eating normally. It's just generally easier to give in food. There you go.
She said that traditionally esp with older anti inflammatory drugs the advice has been to give with meals in case of irritation to stomach lining but this does not apply to Metacam. She also said that you may find some vets still suggest giving with food as that has been traditional advice for anti inflammatory drugs generally.
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A vet from manufacturers of Metacam just rang me to say it doesn't have to be given at meal times as long as cat has an appetite and is eating normally. It's just generally easier to give in food. There you go.
She said that traditionally esp with older anti inflammatory drugs the advice has been to give with meals in case of irritation to stomach lining but this does not apply to Metacam. She also said that you may find some vets still suggest giving with food as that has been traditional advice for anti inflammatory drugs generally.
That is interesting - I will pass the info on to my vet. I wonder how many other "old vets tales" there are. The one about stopping their food at pm the night before surgery is also duff advice that is also cruel and unnecessary.
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My vet agrees with that Rosella. We only give it to Lexy in food as we know she'll eat it. If I tried any other method I'd never get it into her.
The main thing is that if they aren't eating to stop the metacam for the reason's Mark has stated. But if they are eating then it's ok to give as the food absorbs the irritant to their tummy lining.
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That is interesting - I will pass the info on to my vet. I wonder how many other "old vets tales" there are. The one about stopping their food at pm the night before surgery is also duff advice that is also cruel and unnecessary.
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I wondered about this as my vet always tell me to withold food from 6pm and they are not at the vets till 9am and he doesn''t start surgery till 10am .
It seems a long time to me .
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Thank ypu Rosella you are very kind :hug: :hug:
Thanks Desley was hoping you would see this cos know you have used a lot. Yes he was weighed but I dont get bloods for them unless for a real reason cos the birmans get very stressed and thats not good for them. Richard is very good and knows Ducha so think he would have insisted if he thought it was going to be a problem. The leaflet says what you have about CFR so am watching him carefully as know Franta was not given metacam cos of only having one kidney. Is there anything else I should watch for as a sign for CRF? Thanks for your input and everyome else too :hug: :hug:
I cant open his mouth so that method is gone and think he does like the taste lol, tomorrow and gonna try mixing it with food on my finger so I know he eats it and not another cat :innocent: Havent tried smelling it but its definately like a syrup.
He has just come all the way down stairs got up on a stool and onto sofa, had lots of strokes while he was lying down, got fed up and got back down to floor level, used scratching post and gone back up stairs and got onto the bed.......................sigh
I am hoping that as long as another cat doesnt push him then going slowly in his own time he is OK.
Yesterday Franta rushed up the stairs and knocked him and I just got there in time to help him get back on track cos was right at top and nearly fell I think :(
Yes the leaflet says if they stop eating and drinking then to stop the metacam.
Have only realized today that this is maybe something the insurance will not pay out for if he hurts his knee any worse, which is very worrying but hope that he stays careful.......not in his purrrsonality I think.................that we can stop it in 5 days although the vet says if not to continue with it and bottle only has a 14 day life. Dont know how much 3ml is against number 2 on syringe though.
So am hoping little Ducha will get better. He is not purring like he used to when he steals my pillow but have had a few purrs today so hope thats good.
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Juszt to say I didnt know about the ease of overdosing so will be very careful as obviously less is better than too much, :thanks:
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Gill if he eats any sort of human food put it on that 0- when Puma had his Metal work for 9 weeks he was on 10 drops in those days twice a day for 10 weeks - he did of course on that dose thinjk he was supercat with nothing wrong with him! :shocked:
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Gill he will be fine on a short dose, longterm it can have an effect but its benefits far outweigh the negatives. See no reason to go for bloods for a few days treatment. Gooey had it daily all winter and hes still here, theres a lot of scaremongering with metacam usage, yes be informed but dont panic! :hug:
Its difficult to overdose with the supplied syringe, its a very simple thing to use ;D its honey flavoured for palatablity, many cats wil lick from the syringe as they have a sweet tooth same as we do ;)
Desley im not sure i can see how metacam can be blamed for zi after so few doses sorry :shy: we know only too well how elderly cats can get clusters of problems within days of each other :(
Dont know how much 3ml is against number 2 on syringe though
Each kg graduation is 0.1ml so by my maths you have 15 days in that bottle
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The only thing he will sometimes eat is cheese lol so will hold that in reserve cos it tends to make him stop eating his cat food..........sigh,
Thanks Liz and looks like overdosing is possibly harder although of course Puma may be a much bigger cat that little Ducha...Richard said that the number two equals about 5 drops and he only has it once a day.
All advice is gratefully received ;D
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Sending lots of these :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: for Ducha and hope he is soon better.
These are for you too :hug: :hug:
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I didnt have any problems with Charlie when he had his recent abcess and I had to use the syringe - the only thing the vet stressed was to give it at meal times so that it didnt make him feel sick.
I hope that Ducha is feeling better soon :hug:
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Thank you both ;D
The bloomin little man has come down stairs again to tell me I hadnt put the light on grrrrrrrrrrr and he has gone back upstairs and back onto the bed......sigh
He seems to be walking better as long as nobody touches him cos then he falls over. I guess the hoping around will help strengthen the muscles again as long as he is using his leg right.......oh boy such a worry.
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Gill Puma is one of my small boys at 4kgs unlike his brother Cougar who is 7kgs of solid muscle and is a woos!
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Oh Liz thats nearly twice the weight of Ducha cos he loses nearly a kilo cos of his missing leg, mind you his lightness probably helps him.
However he must have read what you said cos he came downstairs again for the third time and then took a flying leap at the cat tree behind my back and fell again, he is worrying me so much but doesnt seem to have a care in the world...........sigh
Had to carry him back upstairs cos he was struggling so much but he just fought all the way cos he wanted to do it by himself!
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Thanks MM and Mark cos missed the posts.
I am trying not to panic MM but he is making it hard and if we go over the 5 days I will ring Richard cos he asked me too. :shify:
Yes I am sure he likes the taste LOL but only have one fully working hand which makes it impossible for me to open his mouth, actually the vets have a problem too!
So its food off my finger and its obviously making him feel good cos he usually never comes down stairs and right now I wish he would stop bouncing around.........sigh...he is also eating more than usual which is good cos he doesnt eat enough normally
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Oh Gill...Poor Ducha...hope his leg starts to get better soon :crossed:
Soap has just finished her course of metacam for her poorly foot and it definitely helped because it was quite swollen :( I was lucky as she liked the taste and would either take it in her food or from the syringe
I did also get the "old vets tale" about giving with/after food :shocked:
:hug: for you and Ducha
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I'm still not convinced as it is contra-indicated for cats with gastric issues on Noah. There must be a reason for that.
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if he is eating better and running around more with the Metacam, it might be he has been in some discomfort for some time before he hurt his leg
do you think that is a possibility?
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Glad to hear that Ducha is seeming better, it sounds like the Metacam is helping :)
I've started to give Byron 1 drop every other day or so because she's starting to show signs of discomfort and struggles to jump on the sofa now.
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Gill sounds like he needs grounded in a smaller space for a couple of days so he can rest and not do stairs etc - we have had to do this with several of ours after they have had leg injuries from falling out of trees or off the top of the wardrobe - they hate us for it but it does mean they rest and sleep
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if he is eating better and running around more with the Metacam, it might be he has been in some discomfort for some time before he hurt his leg
do you think that is a possibility?
Sounds like theres a good chance
I'm still not convinced as it is contra-indicated for cats with gastric issues on Noah. There must be a reason for that.
I think its an ideal but to use with caution in such an animal. Not many have gastro reactions to it but its listed like in human meds, most things iv taken list coma or death as a possible outcome :evillaugh:
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Yes I have been wondering if he was hurting before but I didnt know :(
I dont have anywhere to ground him and he has been down stairs 3 times tonight but have carried him back up twice which he didnt like, he only seems to come down at night and he is not as energetic tonight although he was looking at the top of the back of the sofa with love and I told him noooooooooooo you arent going there and he was not happy.
If it gets out of hand then may have to investigate a cage but dont have anywhere to put it and the thoughts of the birman howls and constant meowing are a nightmare............an hour in the car was enough!
I think I just have to hope that he is feeling better but he still is wobbly and falls over if he tries to go too fast.
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does he like fishy flavoured foods Gill - that is the only kind of food I have been able to hide Metacam in with a couple of cats. Interesting that the manufacturers say it doesn't have to be given with food seeing as that is what they put in their leaflet. The bottles do last longer than that though Gill, the shelf life is 6 months.
MM - my vet agreed that the Metacam could be what tipped Zi's kidney's over - I didn't get bloods done straight away as I didn't like our locum vet, but they were done within a month of her being on it and showed her to have CRF. I would have to agree on them causing gastric issues, Tiger had terrible stomach issues at one point, she even saw a specialist for it and nothing was found and it was only after she went to the bridge that someone on the US forum said about it being a side effect
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Yes he only eats fish foods and he loves it with metacam in it ;D
Didnt they used to use dog metacam for cats? What I have is the new cat metacam which vet says is slightly weaker. The leaflet does not say it has to be given with food and the life of the contents once opened is 14 days and this is printed on it.
Rosella has spoken to the manufactors and they confirm that it does not need to be given with food.
Different size bottles have different use dates the label says but none are as long as 6 months once opened, Have to say on thinking about it the former makes no sense!
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They did used to make a dog metacam, but once the cat version was approved, they cant' give the dog version anymore, which is a shame as the cat one is more expensive!! My bottle of Metacam does say 6 month shelf life once opened - as does the leaflet that came with it. Mine have always been the 15ml bottles, I wonder if you have the 3ml bottle?
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I was given the 3ml bottle for Soap and it has 14 day shelf life once open printed on the box. Would make sense that the bigger bottle is made to last for longer :)
The leaflet didn't say it had to be given with food but did give a special warning about not giving to cats suffering from gastrointestinal disorders. My vets sticker does say to give with food though.
I did give it to Soap with food because it was no problem. As a human I tend to take any medicine with food (unless it says not too) just because may dad now has stomach problems after prolonged use of tablets after a car crash and subsequent operations to fix him after the crash :(
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That's interesting. The leaflet with the 15ml does say give orally or with food, and even has a picture of them putting it in food - maybe it has recently been changed (as the 3ml bottle is fairly new) and I have one of the older bottles.
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That is what the leaflet with my 3ml batch said...although I took that to mean you could put it in food or direct into their mouth whenever as it doesn't say MUST be given with food i.e. If you squirt direct into their mouth it must be at feeding time.
That part of the instructions is a bit ambiguous and could be open to interpretation I think especially coupled with the varying advice vets give.
Like I said I played save and gave it to Soap in her food cos I could.
She even ate her anti b tablet in her food too...how good was she!!!
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Yes I have the 3ml bottle too ;D
I cant open his mouth so its going in food on my finger to make sure he gets it, which I couldnt be sure if I mixed it with his food in a dish cos he eats very little.
He is eating better now with the metacam.......sigh,,,,,,,,just hope his leg gets better too!
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I think vets say it to be on the safe side, as quite a lot of cats who are on it will be due to accident/operation, and the kind who might go off their food, so would be more at risk of it causing stomach issues.
Gill, you could try giving him just a small amount of food with it mixed in in his bowl, and then giving him the rest once you know it has been eaten.
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Its easier from my finger LOL
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Its the same thing in the 3ml bottles, its just a small bottle with a short 'expiry' for a short course, stops people hoarding and giving something at a later date that they shouldnt be ;)
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Dont know how he is tonight yet cos he is fast asleep but earlier was playing chase with Franta...........sigh
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Had to go to pick up litter toda\y which is round corner from vets, so popped in and spoke to Richard about Ducha.
Told him that Duchas leg is better than it was but not fully better but he is a much happier cats and think he must have been in pain prior to the fall,
Richard says to halve the doseage and probably it will be best for him to stay on this for the rest of his life now. He says with this kind of very low dosage even if he was pre-renal there would be very little problem as the metacam is so good and he considers that a cat to live without pain is preferable to an extremely long painful life.
This pleased me cos I so agree.
Richard said I could bring him in for bloods to check but I explained that he cant be pilled and cos of my duff hand I cant even open his mouth. so even if he was slipping down that route there was nothing that could be done in terms of medication, so didnt think there was much point and Richard agreed, especially as Ducha is 17 next month which is old for a birman.
He said that he always opted to go for the route that stopped a cat being in pain even if it meant a shorter life but a happy one.
Ducha is eating better and bopping around when he is not asleep and leg is quite good as long as he concentrates on what he is doing...............he tends to be looking around and getting distracted ;D
He has never shown any sign of pain but think he must have been hurting, poor boy, he is also managing to use the tray better cos think he had problems getting in and out. His back leg is now working in its normal line and not in the middle as it was before and wasnt sure that this was right but Richard says this is much better for him, so looks like he gets some syrup every morning from now on ;D
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I agree gill, i know i'd prefer a shorter but painfree life getting around like normal then being all stiff and uncomfy, just sleeping away the days :hug:
Fingers crossed he contines his new lease of life :Luv2: think this thread needs a pic ;)
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Oh I think I can do that LOL
He is being so hi energy for him but its getting him into trouble,,,,,,,sigh
He wont listen to no and thats caused him to fall again, I wish him and his brother would just blomin listen cos I cant move that fast!
Pictures, right lol
Here is my little 3 legged blue point birman ;D
:thanks: MM
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Glad Ducha's leg is improving and also glad Richard was able to reassure you and put your mind at rest. I agree its better for him to be comfortable everyday so he can be happy :D
Soap was running around crazy as ever when she had her poorly paw...I just wanted her to rest...but she wouldn't listen either...cats eh!!
Hugs for Ducha and the rest of the crew
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:Luv2: :Luv2: :Luv2:
Glad he is getting better , just needs to listento you a bit more now , bless him.
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Gld he is on the mend - lovely pictures , he is sooooooooo like my Oscar.
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Lovely pics.
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Isn't he just a dream boat :Luv: :Luv: :Luv:
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Thank you all and he is lying by myside at the moment ;D
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Gill that is one super beautiful cat!!! my goodness! hes aitn a prince...hes a king! ;D AWESOME xxxx
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:Luv2:
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Thank you and have told him ;D
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So glad Ducha has picked up, he is so handsome :Luv:
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Hugs to the lovely Ducha, hope his leg ok and not in pain
Zoe
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Thank you and he seems to be a bit more stable everyday, until he does something daft lol
He ate Misas chicken tonight, wondered which birman was crawling over the back of my legs :rofl:
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:evillaugh:
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:shify: he says he needs the extra protien! :evillaugh:
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Lovely photos :Luv2: and I do agree with Richard. Byron has been bad with her back leg recently and I've always been reluctant with Metacam but the improvement since I've been giving her it is so worth it. I would not want to think she's in pain at her age.
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Must give him some more cos its lingering in the fridge..sigh
He is a right little explorer now and a couple of days ago came down stairs wenr through the flap and was 50 ft down the garden when I saw him LOL.............he hasnt been out likr that for 2-3 yaers!
I so wish I had known he was in pain before cos metacam has helped him so much.
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Fab news :)
Sounds like Metacam has given Ducha a new lease of life :)