Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat Rescue & Rehoming => Rescue & Rehoming General => Topic started by: Dawn (DiddyDawn) on March 22, 2007, 13:13:03 PM
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I know this is an unusual request but it's desperate........does anyone know of anyone who specialises in large cats meaning Lions :shy: I've had an email this morning about a couple of lions in Croatia that really need veterinary help and no one specialises in large cats over there.........if they don't get the help, they will be euthanised :'( :'( They are in a zoo in Croatia, they are malnourished, basically have no life and they also have Rachitis which I think is another name for Rickets and they are also blind. I've contacted a couple of people I know but they are extremely busy and are rarely in the country so I need a couple of backups :-: If the help is available, I think they've got somewhere lined up for these babes to go where they will be safe from hunters etc.
If anyone can help or knows of anyone, can they contact me asap please :thanks:
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Dawn will PM you
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Thanks hun :hug:
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Hi there!
I'm a veterinary student from Croatia involved in lynx research. You made me interested in those lions. What is the exact location of those lions and what more do you know about them? Let's see how we could help them out.
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If they are in a zoo at the mo, surely they are safe from hunters???
Lyn what tends to happen in these types of situations is either euthenasia or they get sent off for canned hunting since its seen as "they're going to die anyway"
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Lynx try Pming Dawn she is usually on site later in the day ;D
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Try Born Free Foundation UK based but just the thing they would get involved with.
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Hi there!
I'm a veterinary student from Croatia involved in lynx research. You made me interested in those lions. What is the exact location of those lions and what more do you know about them? Let's see how we could help them out.
:welcome: to Purrs Lynx. You sound very well-placed to help...
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born free foundation would definately get involved i think.
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They already are. They had heard about this by the time we called them today. They will contact Dawn or me directly.
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Hi there!
I'm a veterinary student from Croatia involved in lynx research. You made me interested in those lions. What is the exact location of those lions and what more do you know about them? Let's see how we could help them out.
Lynx, I will send you details of what I know.......hopefully you can help :thanks:
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OK people this thread has been modified and all except Lynn know why. Please lets stick to subject of getting the big cats helped without side issues.
Thanks. ;D
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Hi there!
I'm a veterinary student from Croatia involved in lynx research. You made me interested in those lions. What is the exact location of those lions and what more do you know about them? Let's see how we could help them out.
Lynx, I've pm'd you :thanks: :hug:
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I have pm'd you Lyn.
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This is awful I hope something can be done. :(
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This is awful I hope something can be done. :(
I think there may be light at the end of the tunnel.......there are a lot of people across the globe on this case and between us and our contacts, I'm praying something can be done for them. I will keep you updated if I get any feedback.
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And Im sure it would be kinder to pts than leave them out on their own in the wild to be hunted, thats pure evil.
But I do hope its not going to come to that.
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I would think the more help the better.
There's nothing wrong with trying to get more support.
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If you are involved with so many people then why ask for help on the open forum?
I asked for help as these lions need help and the sooner we get it to them, the better. The more people involved the better, and some people may have contacts that I don't, I have actually had a fab contact via my post so hopefully these lions will get the help they need.
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And Im sure it would be kinder to pts than leave them out on their own in the wild to be hunted, thats pure evil.
But I do hope its not going to come to that.
From what I've been told, if these lions get the help they need, they will be trying to get them into a sanctuary where they will be safe and looked after.
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If you are involved with so many people then why ask for help on the open forum?
Lyn, because someone on this forum had a contact in Croatia and Dawn wouldn't have known had she not posted! (That would be me.) I know he has helped to a degree and set the wheels in motion.
Where has Saffron been helping leopards? They are beautiful creatures too.
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Excellent. Hope it all went well. :)
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I have just received this email but they need funds for plane tickets :(
Hi there
We have excellent vets in South Africa and could arrange a short notice for one to fly out to check out the lions, but sadly as a non-profit organisation ourselves we simply do not have the funds now to pay for their plain tickets. Do you have funds available to do so???? We can supply an expert wildlife veterinarian if you can pay his way? Pls let us know ASAP.
Kind regards
Louise Joubert
SanWild
www.sanwild.org and also www.afritrust.com
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dawn whats the feedback been from born free..they did exactly the same thing with lions from romania and another country and the viewers pledged the money to fund it .
im sure they would do the same again.
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dawn whats the feedback been from born free..they did exactly the same thing with lions from romania and another country and the viewers pledged the money to fund it .
im sure they would do the same again.
Just had an email back from them:
Dear Sir or Madam,
I am writing in response to your concerns for the lions at Osijek Zoo in Croatia, which were passed on to me by Ruth Santos. The condition of these lions is indeed terrible.
The lions appear to have nutritional osteodystrophy, a condition seen in many captive lions, brought about by an inadequate diet. In particular, it is often seen in hand-reared lions who have not been given a suitable milk substitute, and have been weaned onto inadequate food. If the zoo’s manager was aware of their inadequate diet, then this is indeed a case of cruel treatment of the lions. However, cases such as this are often down to ignorance of what is needed.
The mother doesn't look in good condition either, so if her diet is lacking in vitamins and minerals then it is unsurprising that her cubs are born with health problems. Getting the lions neutered may be too expensive or not possible if there are no wildlife vets with experience to do the surgery. However, if they cannot be neutered then the lions should certainly be kept separately and not allowed to mate.
It may be that a proper diet could improve the condition of these youngsters and their mother a great deal. However, they could already have suffered permanent skeletal and nervous damage. We are unsure as to whether the blindness could be treated, however when our veterinary consultant returns from Ethiopia next week we will gain his professional opinion on this.
Our sanctuaries in South Africa are full now, so unfortuntely we cannot offer these young lions a home, and I cannot think of any other alternative home for them. For these lions to carry on living in such a barren enclosure, and probably feeling weak and miserable from their poor state of health, then they are not having a life worth living.
Unfortunately, as a charity we have very limited resources, which we must use wisely, therefore we simply have not had the spare resources to send a representative to investigate the situation in Osjiek Zoo. We are currently heavily committed with our investigations and work in Romanian zoos, where there are also many lions in similar barren conditions and also suffering from nutritional osteodystrophy.
I am, however, able to provide you with some good news. As of January 2007, Croatia now has comprehensive animal welfare legislation. Details of this legislation are available at: http://www.prijatelji-zivotinja.hr/index.en.php?id=470. Animal Friends Croatia are an animal welfare group currently working within Croatia to alleviate the suffering of animals in conditions such as this. Hopefully, with the backing of this new legislation, there may be something we can do to help. I have passed your concerns on to Animal Friends Croatia and will keep you updated on the situation.
I do hope the information in this email is of some use to you, and I am sorry that there is not more we can do to help in this dreadful situation.
Yours Sincerely and With Best Wishes,
Anne Keeley
Zoo Check Researcher
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Ok so I agree the PM was a bit out of sorts and dont think it should be made public for the reason it will upset someone.
Dawn I agree with you trying to get all the support you can and thats why you have posted on here and asked for help, and I do hope that you get it.
On the other hand people who dont see how posting this can help should try not to take the situation out of context and lets keep to the origanal reason of getting help.
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Is there anyone in the country that could help? It would save the plane costs.
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I've not heard of them Lyn, have you got a contact address or phone number for them? I'm going to put a plea out to see if we can raise some funds and I'll forward the email onto Bornfree as well.
CC, I'm waiting to hear back from someone in Croatia, they are head vet at another zoo, thank you for that contact JS :hug: ........we contacted so many people but still waiting on replys from some.
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Hope this helps!
They do have a good record of conservation but not sure about rescue, but worth a try. What about World Society Protection of Animals in London, maybe?
Howletts and Port Lympne Estates Ltd
Lympne
Nr. Hythe
Kent CT21 4PD
England
Tel: 0870 750 4647
Fax: 01303 264 944
E-mail: info@totallywild.net
Our offices are manned from 9am to 5pm GMT Monday to Friday with voice-mail covering off-peak hours.
This is the general contact emails and tel number you may need to be passed to another department to get any joy.
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:thanks: I will contact them and see what they say.
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CC, I'm waiting to hear back from someone in Croatia, they are head vet at another zoo, thank you for that contact JS :hug: ........we contacted so many people but still waiting on replys from some.
No bother. ;D Didn't want thanks, just wanted to point out that posting on here had given you a contact. Good luck sorting out help for these guys.
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Howletts anf Port Lymne are zoos in kent. You could try googling it. Damian Aspinall runs them now.
I hope Damian is as commited as John was. They do seem a bit of a commercial venture thesedays but I suppose they need the $ to keep up the work. I think the animals are well treated and have space there.
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Dawn, I got copied on the email to you. They seem to care, but I think they are hoping legislation will intervene, but these lions don't have the luxury of time.
Any ideas on how much we need to raise?
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Dawn, I got copied on the email to you. They seem to care, but I think they are hoping legislation will intervene, but these lions don't have the luxury of time.
Any ideas on how much we need to raise?
I've just had another email saying that someone is prepared to pay for a vet to go over there:
Quote: "I will be more than happy to use my miles or pay for an airline ticket from South Africa to Vienna. I could pick up the vet at the airport in Vienna and drive him to Osijek."
:) I'm not holding my breath but this sounds like some headway is getting sorted.......fingers crossed :hug:
I'm not sure how much needs to be raised but I will find out just in case this falls through.
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Everything crossed here xxx
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from what ive seen on tv mark aspinalls son is as caring and wants the work of his father to continue ;D
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Dawn hope you don't mind me posting these links ... It's a couple of articles I found about these poor lions:
http://www.zivot.hr/index.en.php?id=321 and
http://www.zivot.hr/index.en.php?id=319
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Poor guys. It's a pretty sad situation if the other lions got a decent enclosure and these two got plonked in a little cage. :(
Gotta say, I don't really like zoos. Conservation zoos correcting human behaviour that has endangered a species, yes. Otherwise I think it's preferable to have reserves or to see an animal in its natural habitat. (Although, admittedly that option can take YEARS to save for!)
Hope these guys can be saved and their medical issues aren't too far along.
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Poor things. Any news on them Dawn?
I dont think conservation zoos do much either, i read it only takes 2 generations of captive breeding before they cant be released into the wild! End up just being shipped to another zoo :(
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Just read those articles Sam, This is not fair! >:(
The Lions suffering has not been caused by there own doing.
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Poor things. Any news on them Dawn?
Just got in from work but have had an email from Slavica who is desperately trying to help these babes, I've also had various other emails but not checked them properly yet. She's asked me to contact a guy called Luke from the Worldwide Veterinary Service, he's offered Veterinary care and advice........I've got a home check to do shortly so I'll try and get hold of him later.
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Gotta say, I don't really like zoos.
I totally agree........especially not when they are cooped up in poxy cages :censored: :censored:
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Dawn let me know funds wise what we're looking at if we need to find a way to help subsidise this. Airmiles etc I have some accumulated that we may be able to use if need be.
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Dawn let me know funds wise what we're looking at if we need to find a way to help subsidise this. Airmiles etc I have some accumulated that we may be able to use if need be.
Thanks hun, I'll post some pictures later that I've received of these lions..........it breaks my heart looking at them :'( :'( Whatever needs to be done........it will get sorted one way or another, we have to help them before it's too late :hug:
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Here's some pics of these poor babes :'( :'(
[attachment deleted by admin]
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and some more :'( :'(
[attachment deleted by admin]
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talk about breaking the king of the jungle !!
those photos are heartbreaking.
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God those photos are dreadful. Truly heartbreaking.
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Had an email from the World Vet. Service and it seems they are prepared for a head vet of 2 zoo's to take a look at the lions and Luke who is the Chief Executive is prepared to accompany her to access the situation. We have been advised that they may well end up making the decision to euthanise these guys if that is the best thing for their welfare. I think on the whole, this is something we have to accept if it's in their best interests. I really hope they get a positive outcome, it would be great for them to enjoy their lives as they should, free from harm and hopefully it will make up for the crap life they've had up to now :'( :'(
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I do hope that they can find a way to get them into a better environment with medical care................keeping my fingers crossed :hug: :hug:
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I really hope so as well Gill :hug: I also think if they are to remain at the zoo in the conditions they are in now, the kindest thing would be euthanasia.........I really can't see the point of treating them if their welfare is still at risk, all we will be doing then is dragging out their miserable lives :'( :'( I just find it very sad and I hope with all my heart that they do right by these babes :'(
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Heartbreaking
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I really hope so as well Gill :hug: I also think if they are to remain at the zoo in the conditions they are in now, the kindest thing would be euthanasia.........I really can't see the point of treating them if their welfare is still at risk, all we will be doing then is dragging out their miserable lives :'( :'( I just find it very sad and I hope with all my heart that they do right by these babes :'(
I tend to agree. The life they're currently living isn't fitting for any animal, let alone one that's deemed "king of the jungle."
Hoping they can help these guys and if not, make the difficult decision that they're faced with.
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Just had another email off Luke. It seems they will need permission off the Zoo officials and the local Authority to go over there but once they get the all clear, the wheels are in motion as long as the WVS approve it which I can't see them no doing :)
Dear Dawn,
Thank you for this but there would be no professional fee for our time and this is within the objectives of the WVS. The cost of flights would have to be cleared with the board of WVS trustees but it is a worthy cause as it brings awareness to the plight of poorly treated zoo animals so I would hope it is approved. Jane and I are very happy to visit but we would need the permission from the zoo and the local authority in order to examine and assess the animals. Our goal would be to objectively assess the welfare of the animals, their clinical condition, and whether they are able to be treated or not. We would be aiming to work with the Croatian zoo experts and local authorities in deciding the fate of the lions. I have mailed Zivot and if he can get us the permission of the zoo vet and the government, and they would like our help, then we will go.
Best regards,
Luke
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I really hope so as well Gill I also think if they are to remain at the zoo in the conditions they are in now, the kindest thing would be euthanasia.........I really can't see the point of treating them if their welfare is still at risk, all we will be doing then is dragging out their miserable lives I just find it very sad and I hope with all my heart that they do right by these babes
Agree totally !
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Here's an update on these babes. I will update again when I hear more.
"Assistants from the Veterinary University of Zagreb visited us, and they
said that young lions are not in life-threatening situation, that they are
not blind ( though, zoo manager Salika-Todorovic claimed last Monday they
are) and judging from their appearance, assistants gave their opinion that
lions do not have to be euthanized.
Yet, assistants told us that they never worked with Big cats, especially
lions, but that they will consult specific guides/literature.
Assistants took blood and other swab samples from the lions, I'm not sure if
anything else, I couldn't see myself, as the manager Salika-Todorovic forbid
anybody else to watch the event.
Director of UNIKOM Miroslav Dolezal told us that he would like to invite
experts from UK to provide their opinon about the young lions."
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Not wanting to be provocative but this is typical old balkans mentality >:(
Those lions need to be got out of that zoo and into an environment suitable for big cats. Thanks for all the work you have done on this Dawn and lets hope someone from UN will get this sorted.
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Gill, they will do everything in their power to get the lions out.......there are a lot of people working on this to make sure they get the life they deserve and that won't be stuck in a cage :hug: As far as what I've done to help, it's not a lot, I just wish I could do more :'( And after I'd heard about them, I couldn't just forget about them........and they are still cats although a little bigger than I normally deal with :Luv: :Luv:
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Finally had an email off Lord Bath.......not much help I'm afraid but he will look into it.
Dear Dawn
Thank you for your email regarding the lions in Croatia.
We certainly were not aware of the plight of these animals, which is obviously very sad, but we shall try and look into the problems they are in through EAZA (European Association of Zoos and Aquaria) to see if there is any action being taken to help these animals.
I am afraid that we could not offer them a home here at Longleat as we already have two prides and they certaibly would not mix within these two groups, but we will see if there are any other ways we could help.
Yours sincerely
Bath
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Try Born Free Foundation UK based but just the thing they would get involved with.
I was going to say born Free
The poor babes :'( :'( :'( :'( I hope something can be done - Dawn let me know if you need anything I will do my best to help you out xxx
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dawn whats the feedback been from born free..they did exactly the same thing with lions from romania and another country and the viewers pledged the money to fund it .
im sure they would do the same again.
Just had an email back from them:
Dear Sir or Madam,
I am writing in response to your concerns for the lions at Osijek Zoo in Croatia, which were passed on to me by Ruth Santos. The condition of these lions is indeed terrible.
The lions appear to have nutritional osteodystrophy, a condition seen in many captive lions, brought about by an inadequate diet. In particular, it is often seen in hand-reared lions who have not been given a suitable milk substitute, and have been weaned onto inadequate food. If the zoo’s manager was aware of their inadequate diet, then this is indeed a case of cruel treatment of the lions. However, cases such as this are often down to ignorance of what is needed.
The mother doesn't look in good condition either, so if her diet is lacking in vitamins and minerals then it is unsurprising that her cubs are born with health problems. Getting the lions neutered may be too expensive or not possible if there are no wildlife vets with experience to do the surgery. However, if they cannot be neutered then the lions should certainly be kept separately and not allowed to mate.
It may be that a proper diet could improve the condition of these youngsters and their mother a great deal. However, they could already have suffered permanent skeletal and nervous damage. We are unsure as to whether the blindness could be treated, however when our veterinary consultant returns from Ethiopia next week we will gain his professional opinion on this.
Our sanctuaries in South Africa are full now, so unfortuntely we cannot offer these young lions a home, and I cannot think of any other alternative home for them. For these lions to carry on living in such a barren enclosure, and probably feeling weak and miserable from their poor state of health, then they are not having a life worth living.
Unfortunately, as a charity we have very limited resources, which we must use wisely, therefore we simply have not had the spare resources to send a representative to investigate the situation in Osjiek Zoo. We are currently heavily committed with our investigations and work in Romanian zoos, where there are also many lions in similar barren conditions and also suffering from nutritional osteodystrophy.
I am, however, able to provide you with some good news. As of January 2007, Croatia now has comprehensive animal welfare legislation. Details of this legislation are available at: http://www.prijatelji-zivotinja.hr/index.en.php?id=470. Animal Friends Croatia are an animal welfare group currently working within Croatia to alleviate the suffering of animals in conditions such as this. Hopefully, with the backing of this new legislation, there may be something we can do to help. I have passed your concerns on to Animal Friends Croatia and will keep you updated on the situation.
I do hope the information in this email is of some use to you, and I am sorry that there is not more we can do to help in this dreadful situation.
Yours Sincerely and With Best Wishes,
Anne Keeley
Zoo Check Researcher
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I'll email Slavica later and see if she's heard anything and what's being done at the moment. I know blood tests were done on them and I'm pretty sure it would be about 2 weeks for the results they said.
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Seems I am way behind on this story -
You go DD :bow: :bow: Help is still there is needed. xxxxxx
Every animal deserves the best in life - lets hope these darlings get it now bless them
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I've been meaning to update on this thread. Sadly one of the lions was found dead last week :'( :'( :'( Here's a snippet of the email I received. I have also had the reports through but I'll have to post them tomorrow when I've had chance to read them.
"Today morning workers found one young lion dead. They were in new much more
bigger cage on open air for 20 days with different diet (beef, chicken,fish
oil-once a week,, milk, egs with ground meet,carrot, yeast).
Đuro Huber, dr.vet.med. who was 2 weeks ago in Osijek zoo said they are
looking good.
We have Report made by doctors from Veterinary University in Zagreb. At the begining of their report
they say lions are 60 kg app weight even for 17 months old they should be
double and more. They were living in cages 2x2,8 meters, very frighten and
agresive behaviour. Cage keepers tried to call them but they didn't want to
stand up.
In brief history we can see they were born vitality and healthy. But
translation of this report I will send you later this week."
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So very sad :'(
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I know but in some ways, you wonder whether they are better off as they will no longer be suffering :'( :'( :'( I've forwarded the report to a couple of friends of mine to see if they have any ideas.
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Maybe contact GMTV they did an appeal not so long back for big cats and they managed to sort them out. I am racking my brains for an idea as I did think of a good way but fibro is kicking me to bits today and I can't find the words I need.
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Thanks Rachel, I'm going to read through the reports tomorrow and see what they say first and then see what we can all do to help........I'm too tired tonight :tired: I would think any vet as far as info goes should be able to advise........they are just big cats after all :Luv: :Luv: I've sent the reports to Sean as well to see if he has any ideas or knows of anyone that will be able to advise.
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Hi again hon I have a list of lion sanctuaries, when you get the report send me a copy and maybe between us we can email them some kind of appeal with the details?
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Thanks Rachel, we'll see what we can do........I'll send the report to you tomorrow after I've read it :hug:
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Ok hon, you try to rest some I will hunt down some more ideas and chat to you tomorrow right now I am trying to trace an email addy for amanda holden that helped the lions in romania with gmtv.
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Okay, I'll catch you tomorrow, xxx
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Wow, is this still ongoing?
Poor big guy. :( Although, as you said, at least he isn't suffering anymore.
Thanks for the update, Dawn. Hopefully a solution to this problem can be found really soon. :luck:
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Dawn I have sent a pm with a few links in I hope they help