Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat Health & Behaviour => Health & Behaviour General => Topic started by: chimpzoo on March 19, 2007, 12:17:31 PM
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I just got a letter from the vet detailing an appointment for Tilda to be spayed in a weeks time.
there's a few boxes for me to tick saying if i want various treatments done, microchipped, claws cut ect... It also asks if i would like pre-anaesthetic blood testing - i gather this helps to reduce complications that may arise due to the anaesthetic so i'll get it done, but does anyone know if this is vital ?
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No its not vital
i was offered it with all my cats
as long as the cat is healthy and has no medical problems then theres no need for the blood test imo .
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It isn't vital for youngsters, but is coming more and more common. My oldies have them done, unless it hasn't been that long since their annual blood tests. Blood tests will pick up medical probs that you might not know about by looking at them, but if she is being spayed at 6mo, I wouldnt bother.
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If Tilda is a normal healthy youngster then frankly it's pretty unlikely that there's anything for the blood test to pick up... but gawd I'm glad they didn't offer me it cos I'd have fallen for it hook line and sinker and handed over another £lots - the girls were spayed last Tuesday and are doing fine.
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Not sure about a young cat but clapton is 7 and had pre-anaesthetic bood tests before a dental and that's when it came to light he had CRF - I don't know how long it would have gone undiscovered without.
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I agree that it's probably not necessary for a 6 month old kitten, but with an older cat I think it's a good idea. Jaffa had pre-op bloods done before a dental too and that's when they found out his urea and creatinine levels were high (not abnormally high but high end of normal). I think they're worth having done when an adult cat has an op but I wouldn't bother with a kitten as there's unlikely to be a problem with the organs at that age.
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. My oldies have them done,
We too have the older cats bloods taken but the young ones only if the vets feels there is a problem.
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hmmm this is interesting! :shify: i might not bother with it now, she's young and seems healthy and lively.
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i cringe when i hear what forever said..just because an animal APPEARS healthy doesnt mean to say their organs are performing 100% you cant tell outwardly whats going on internally !!
I would say to anyone that the chances of their being any problems or test results outwtith the normal reference ranges in young cats for routine procedures ie neutering is highly unlikely.
HOWEVER there can and is the odd one that will always be an exception and ga will either be modified or delayed etc and any further treatement and or tests can begin.
In my own experience these tests in neuterings werent done too often but i will say i remember there being 3 or 4 that showed abnormal results, one was a 7 mnth cat castrate the had very elevated results but appeared 100% healthy and normal on the outside !!
What i'd say is if you can afford it then go for it, if not then your cat will PROBABLY be ok and dont beat yourself up over it but be aware altho the chances of abnormalities are low it doesnt mean they dont exsist.
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well try not too cringe !
coz its exactly wat the vet said when i took max to be neutered and i was offered the blood tests.
Just because u r neurotic doesnt mean everyone has to be !
there are millions of cats everyday who r spayed and neutered without having blood tests first !
Do u think when a cat owner who attends the pdsa goes there for a neuter the pdsa offer blood tests first??????
nope afiraid not as they just dont have the funds to do things that r really not necessary
and its so not necessary in a 6mth old cat im sorry .
Now if the person who started this thread can afford to pay out for blood tests then all well and good
but if not then imo its fine
and im sure the cat will be 100 per cent fine 2 .
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i wasnt having a go at you, sorry if it sounded like that. What you said is what most owners say.
Pdsa aside as thats obvously comes down to funding and i have no experience with pdsa doing routine neuterings , i do believe every vet and nurse should make everyone aware of the facts..thats not to exagarate or bully people into something they dont want but to give the facts ie yes probably 98 out of 100 young cats will be perfectly ok but for the owners to be aware that there is a small chance that internally all isnt always necessarily as hunky dory as it might seem on the outside and if they are happy knowing that info that there is that small chance their cat (or dog) may be in the small percentage that the kidneys or liver isnt functioning 100% then thats fine so long as they are aware of risks involved. I dont consider myself neurotic and i can honestly say there are some here that are far more worried about things than i am however knowledge is always power in my opinion and i'd never say to anyone..your animal looks the picture of health so there fore there CANT be a problem.
when it comes down to it where charities etc are involved then a certain degree of weighing up the risks must be considered ie the small chance of not doing a blood test to the much higher chance of not doing the neuterings and the implications that has. Personally if it was me i would go for the extra 20 odd quid for the blood test and also if it was a separate procedure that the insurance was going to cover ie x ray or ga to lance cat bite abcess..something simple then most people would have the blood test as it would then in that case be covered by the insurance, for me it would make no difference if it was an ins case or not i would pre ga my pets before a ga as i have first hand been suprised in the past. As a qualified veterinary nurse that is my opinion as to whether it is necessary or not !
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well try not too cringe !
coz its exactly wat the vet said when i took max to be neutered and i was offered the blood tests.
Just because u r neurotic doesnt mean everyone has to be !
I don't think its neurotic to want pre-anesthetic blood tests done - ok I probably wouldnt have tests done on a young cat going in for routine neutering, although, as Lynn said, even then there can be the exception that shows abnormal results, but I would definitely have pre-op tests done on an older cat before a dental or other procedure involving anesthetic.
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on a older cat is a bit more understandable
but what i was trying to say was :
i think u have to draw a line at being too neurotic about things in life
if not we would all end up mad !!!!!
i think its good to think possitive thoughts sometimes
and with a young fit lively kitten i wouldnt have blood tests done
and as i say my vet s words were " would u like pre anaestic blood testing ? although it really isnt necessary with a young kitten as long as they r healthy and lively in there selves "
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but is that the same vet who after seeing him you went to get a 2nd opinion for a preg diagnosis, that does suggest you dont entirely trust his judgement anyway. I can see no point in offering you a blood test followed by that remark without stating the facts both for and against. You are right however we do need to draw a line and being educated adults we can gather facts and make our own opinions. all i was doing was giving abit more facts than what was previously given on this topic.
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No it aint the same vet
the vet that was examining makosi was a female
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all i was doing was giving abit more facts than what was previously given on this topic.
...and it's appreciated, i think it's important that you pointed out that it's impossible to know a cat's health by looking at it and that things occasionally go wrong, well, it was usefull info for me!
I think this time i'll save myself £40 and hope that Tilda is in the majority of heathy young cats.
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i am sure she will be but atleast you have made an educated decision and thats how it should be ;D
hypothetically speaking if you werent informed or a profesional member said you had a young healthy cat so there would be no problems and there was then the first thing you'd ask is why didnt you tell me all the risks, which is only normal a person would say that. I never think you can have too much knowledge if you have the facts right ;D I will say that i cannot remember any long term problems resulting in a cat being ga'd that had underlying undiagnosed problems, now i know there would have been cats operated on with undiagnosed underlying problems but i cant remember them being back in because of it. thats not to say the clients didnt go else where, the cat wandered off or and problems a couple of years later etc. the worst one out of the few that we had blood tested had really high renal parameters, he went on prescription diet etc and they came down alot but not totally and a few months later he was castrated using an anaesthetic which was much much kinder on the kidneys, not the type that is normally used for cat castrate and he was placed on iv fluids etc to support him..the others were marginally high and i cannot remember the exact protocol we followed.
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When is Tilda booked in for her spay ?
my Makosi is booked for thursday
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When is Tilda booked in for her spay ?
my Makosi is booked for thursday
a week on friday, i have sat and sun off work to stop her pulling out stitches. :doh:
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Letty and Daffy were spayed last Tuesday.
I dunno if it was the fact that I had the 2 of them or that I can't move very fast but we lasted about 20 minutes before I had to send a tame cousin on a rescue mission to pick up the big plastic collars. Soooo... Becca's top tip is bring one home with you, if you don't need it then great.
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Lynn, you would be lucky to get pre-anaesthetic bloods done for £20 at most vets!! Might have been that cheap when you were a VN, or maybe cos you are in Scotland, but you can expect to add £40 to your bill round here for that!! When PEbbles had her dental, the receptionist forgot to get me to tick the box for it, I did think it was odd, but they had recently changed the forms, and I hadn't seen it either, the vet thought it odd I didn't ask for it actually, and quizzed me about it - they didn't forget for the other op!! IT turned out OK actually, cos she was back the month after for them anyway, but I would rather be neurotic and have these things done and get any possible issues picked up on sooner rather than later.
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Pre bloods here is £45 !!
I personally have never had them done.
Am i right in thinking Lynn it only checks for kidney function ?
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Des it was only 5 years ago i worked and dont think inflation has gone up that much LOL..when i was working they were around 25 pounds i think and i guess we might be abit cheaper than some of your bigger cities in england..prob be around 30 now i'd guess.
michelle no they dont just check renal function. a basic pre ga profile (which a vet can make up and decide what their standard profiles are so this isnt set in stone) but you can buy the boxes of just Idexx pre ga (which i suppose most vets will do) and those test are
Alkaline Phosphatase, Alanine transaminase , blood urea nitrogen, Creatinine, glucose, total protein
so basically liver/renal/blood glucose
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The pre test clapton had done is computerized and it listed about 20 different things and the boxes showed red if the readings were abnormal on any of them.
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because an animal APPEARS healthy doesnt mean to say their organs are performing 100% you cant tell outwardly whats going on internally
You are quite right, but with the cost rescues I think would struggle to have all cats bloods taken, it think here it is almost £30.
Although my own cats are always tested, then again they are older, I think I would air on the side of caution even if they were younger.
Just because u r neurotic doesn't mean everyone has to be
I personally think that comment is uncalled for and quite rude, you have to remember that Lynn was a Vet Nurse and knows better than many of us the implications of bloods being taken.
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when it comes down to it where charities etc are involved then a certain degree of weighing up the risks must be considered ie the small chance of not doing a blood test to the much higher chance of not doing the neuterings and the implications that has.
I agree'd with you ela and yes thanks for your aknowledgement but i'll never pretend to know more than i do nor forget the fact that ive been not working for 5 years altho that doesnt mean i suddenly lost any knowledge i had and i have continued to keep a "semi interest".
Mark -- Clapton cleary must have had the full blood biochem and poss haematology done..a pre ga profile is less things looked at basically.
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[quote
Mark -- Clapton cleary must have had the full blood biochem and poss haematology done..a pre ga profile is less things looked at basically.
I wasn't consulted about this but if it was in his best interest I'm happy for it to be done. One of my friends has stopped using this vet as she says although he is a good vet, he does like to do all possible chargeable work. She has an issue where her partner's 14 year old cat was kept in overnight for rehydration for failing kidneys and died. They got a bill for £300 - she believes that he will carry on even when there is very little hope. She has a good medical background (She went from junior nurse to now assistant director of nursing with 30 years experience). She warned me that if I am ever in the position, I will need to make the judgement as the vet won't.
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cat was kept in overnight for rehydration for failing kidneys and died. They got a bill for £300
£300 for a consultation, bloods, i nights hospitalisation and re-hydration seems a bit steep.
It could have been the bloods that surely must have been taken indicated to the vet that the cat may have had a chance.
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I would expect overnight hospitalisation to cost quite a lot, tbh, although I suppose it does depend on whether there was anyone with him. I know that was one of the biggests costs when Magpie died - the iintensive care overnight. He was only at the vets for about 5 hours but his treatment cost nearly £2000! Sounds a lot but when it was broken down I could see where it went. There was someone with him all the time and it was out of hours treatment.
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blimey susanne thats a MASSIVE bill for 5 hours treatment.
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It was, Lynn and I no longer have a copy (think I sent it to the insurance company without photocopying it) but when I saw everything itemised out I could see how it had mounted up and no individiual thing seemed overly high. I think the out of hours intensive care treatment and round the clock nursing made up the bulk of it, but there was also stuff like xrays, iv drips etc. Petplan paid it all minus £60 excess and didn't quibble over any of it. I'm just glad in a way that he didn't get to have the injections he was going to have to disperse the blood clot (he deteriorated before she could give those) as those were going to be several hundred pounds per shot and he would need "several" - so that would have been on top of the original bill! Thank god for insurance.
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yep my archie was prob close to 2k within really a week .. that was being kept for a night and tests done at dick vet in edinburgh mind you on top of my boss's bill.
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Ela : im sorry but i dont think it is rude
its only as rude as the comment lynn said in the first place which was " it made me cringe at what forever just said "
i thought this thread was to give opinions to try n help people
well every opinon i have or make is often jumped on by someone saying its wrong
ive just rang 3 different vets in portsmouth and ask for info about pre anaesthic testing and was told the same thing by all of them
when someone gives someone an opinion
no body should be saying its wrong or right
as its just an opinon at the end of the day .
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I have to say I cringed too, but just put that what you see isn't always a true indication - I remember with Snowy, I thought she was looking quite thin (she had liver probs), yet everyone who came to the house said 'oh, she is fine, it is just old age', and even when she started picking at her food (not that unknown for her), my neighbour (who I still looked to for advice then) told me it was nothing to worry about, when I had her blood tested, it showed that her liver prob had got worse, and even the day before her final visit, she looked fine - if I showed you her final pic, you wouldn't know there was anything wrong with her at all, yet she had a liver prob that hadn't responded to meds, and even by feel, her liver had got worse in a 2 week period. Admittedly, this is highly unlikely to happen in a young cat, she was 13ish. And PEbbles had 3 blood tests cos even the vet was convinced there was something going on by the look of her, yet they all came back clear, so it just shows you never can tell.
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well every opinon i have or make is often jumped on by someone saying its wrong
Don't worry about it we all suffer from that occasionally.
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i thought this thread was to give opinions to try n help people
Which is precisely what informing people of the correct facts and allowing them to make up their own mind does.
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CHILL OUT LADIES :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
I Am Chilled 8)
:rofl:
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I don't believe that a kitten should have pre-op bloods.
When Polly - 18 at the time - was due to have a lump removed, she had pre-op tests because of concerns about her age. The tests showed that her kidneys weren't working at 100% but I told the vet to go ahead anyway, figuring that the unknown nature of the lump was more dangerous to her than the risks of the anaesthetic. She was fine and the lump was fine.
I do think that there is a danger of being over-protective. Sometimes cats muddle through perfectly well even if they have borderline health problems. But discovering these problems can cause stress and make the cat worse.
As for doing pre-op bloods on a 6mth old, I wouldn't bother. Save the kit the hassle of having blood taken, and yourself the expense and worry.
Chances are, all will be well anyway, and your kitten will have been mauled for nothing.
Go straight for the spay.
That's what I'd do.
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I do think that there is a danger of being over-protective. Sometimes cats muddle through perfectly well even if they have borderline health problems. But discovering these problems can cause stress and make the cat worse.
I personally would rather be over protective with my little ones. I would not want them to muddle through if they have a borderline problem, often nipped in the bud ailments can be completely cured. I fail to see how discovering a problem can cause stress and make the cat worse. Yes, an owner will be upset but at least if we know about a problem we have a chance to put it right. The only time a cat would get worse is if an owner did not take the cat to the vet so a potential problem was not found found and the cat did not receive treatment.
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I don't believe that a kitten should have pre-op bloods.
As for doing pre-op bloods on a 6mth old, I wouldn't bother. Save the kit the hassle of having blood taken, and yourself the expense and worry.
Chances are, all will be well anyway, and your kitten will have been mauled for nothing.
My friends kitten ^Solaman^ died while being neutered, think she would have preferred for him to have been "mauled" and still be alive now !
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As it's on the same thread, should I ask for Kylie & Willow to have bloods done as they never have. I don't know if Willow had bloods done when she was in isolation before coming over from France. Kylie came from CP so probably never had them done either - they are both 7ish
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Unless they are about to have ops, my opinion would be not to. But lots of peeps will disagree with me. My reasoning is that if the cat appears well, eats well, plays, has a shiny coat and purrs lots, then it probably is well. It's like the old "if it waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, looks like a duck, then it probably IS a duck!".
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if the cat appears well, eats well, plays, has a shiny coat and purrs lots, then it probably is well. It's like the old "if it waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, looks like a duck, then it probably IS a duck!".
oh no, it's all going to kick off again! :rofl:
does anyone know any good jokes? :rofl:
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I personally think 7 is too young to start on annual blood tests - but Clapton showed that even at that age, they can start showing health issues, and as you found out, his was picked up before anything started showing. It is good if you can have some done while they are young and healthy though, so you have a baseline to go off.
After seeing a cat suffer because an owner didn't have blood tests done (various reasons), despite the cat obviously being ill, I am glad that I am an overprotective mum who tries to do the best by mine by putting them through a yearly blood test - unless there is a health issue, I dont go as far as 6 monthly bloods though. Cats can lose 75% of their liver and kidney function before you would notice any symptoms, I want to be able to pick up on things like that a lot sooner, as they can then have a longer life with symptoms managed.
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lol - well I dont' know that there's much point in my repeating what I said on the last thread - but basically I disagree that if a cat looks well it probably is well and I think blood tests are a good idea when a cat gets older. You'd never know that Jaffa has potentially high values by looking at him. I'm not sure at what age I would start having blood tests done but Jaffa is 9 and I wanted a full senior panel done on him regardless of the fact that he had highish levels of urea and creatinine discovered when he had his pre dental blood tests. Cats are generally considered senior at about age 8 so in the absence of other symptoms I'd have them tested at about that age, or sooner if they're having an op or there are any other indicators that there might be something wrong.
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shakin my head at some comments in disbelief of what i have read, thank goodness most veterinary staff are qualified these days.
but to answer mark
A cat is technically classed as geriatric at 7 and anything from that age onwards they say its a good idea to "think about it"
Definately before any procedures thats for sure but not to drop everything and rush to get it done but perhaps in the not too distant future i would think about getting round to it.
apart from anything else its a very good reference to have (ie gives an indication of how long a chronic problem ie crf has been going on for aswell as very early detection) and if all was normal the ideal would be yearly but in reality i'd say try every 2nd year.
No comment on my own boys coz ive been meaning to get round to their for the past almost 3 years i think since they last were tested :-[ Seb im not too bothered bout but i really need to get around to fraser sooner rather than later and i have suspicions as to what the results will hold altho he seem perfectly well (thats a point, when i get the results i'll look for this thread and post the results ;D ) but first things first, i got a grey to get bloods done on and a ga/dental so will be doing that next month when hubby off and i can get a car too put him in...great forward thinking hubby bought me a saloon even tho i said i wanted a hatchback..now how do i fit a grey in a saloon car :-:
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furbaby: what happened with ur friends kitten then ????
allergic reaction to anatestic????
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ive never seen an allergic reaction to an anaesthetic.
i suspect it a) either had some underlying abnormality with liver etc which a blood test would have picked up or b) badly managed /monitored anaesthetics c) it went into laryngeal spasm and lack of oxygen lead to death.
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Unless they are about to have ops, my opinion would be not to. But lots of peeps will disagree with me. My reasoning is that if the cat appears well, eats well, plays, has a shiny coat and purrs lots, then it probably is well.
That is not the case cats are very good at hiding an illness. e.g Trudie looked purrfectly well , ate, had a shiny coat, played etcand it looked like there there was no reason to take her to the vets, the only reason we took her was because the contents of the litter told me something may be not right. Another cat Tricky again seemed perfectly well. he ate his breakfast as normal but later that day when I served supper he didn't come for it and just sat in a different place in the lounge. that was enough to tell me all was not well, he was taken immediately to the vets and he has a tumor in his throat, it must have been there a while but there was no other outward sign.
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molly had a tumour in her throat when we first got her
i was hysterical i couldnt even breathe where i was crying so much
i thought we were gonna lose her
yet she only had to stay at the vets a day and had a op to remove it then she come home that night ,
she did have symptoms thou thats why i took her to vet
vet said it was only very tiny and its good they caught it in time .
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This is where I take a different attitude to many peeps here. If a cat shows symptoms as Molly did, forever, then I believe it should go to the vet immediately. But if a cat is well in every way I don't see the point in looking for problems. Polly, who is 20, (touch wood!) has only had pre-op bloods, one of which did show that her kidneys are a little under par. This is true of most elderly cats. It's just a fact of life. She still eats well and plays.
At the moment the moulting process is getting her down. At her ancient age I expect her to be a little frail. If she stops eating or behaves differently, she'll go to the vet because she has symptoms.
If a 3yr old slept as much as she does etc, I would immediately take it to the vet.
For the same reasons, I don't believe in FLV testing. It's awful to know that your cat has FLV. You wait for the sword to fall. I'd rather not know.
I know I'm on my own in thinking this. We've had this discussion before.
As to the kit who died under anaesthetic. Cats die during ops for many reasons other than poor kidney/liver function.
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As to the kit who died under anaesthetic. Cats die during ops for many reasons other than poor kidney/liver function.
You are quite right they do, but thankfully nowadays the anaesthetics are much safer and it is not a common occurrence.
In all my years with Cats Protection, I have only ever known one cat at our vets die while one under anaesthetic and that is out of over ten thousand, possibly more like twenty thousand.
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I suppose I take the same approach to my cats' health as I do my own - if there's something wrong I want to know about it so that I can treat it whether that be with conventional medicine, diet, supplements etc. I do want to look for problems, to a certain extent (obviously there has to be a limit to how many diagnostic procedures you put a cat through) as the earlier something's picked up the better the chances of beating it.
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as the earlier something's picked up the better the chances of beating it
Absolutely, and giving them the best possible chance of life, rather than bury your head in the sand and think if I don't know about it, it is not there or going to shorten your little ones life.
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Exactly. Luckily Clapton's CRF is "moderate". Knowing what I know now, I try my best (against clapton's wishes) to give him the best diet possible, bottled water, Fortekor etc, in the hope that we can stabilise or slow down the deterioration of his kidneys.
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lynn, cats can die from heart problems if they have an anaesthetic and no one knows about it - and vets dont offer a heart scan etc before an op - although there was a debate on the American forum as to whether it should be done, as that could be more useful than bloods. We lost one while having an op last year, but I do think it is rare with our vets, they did put it down to a reaction to the anaesthetic, but said you wouldn't know they would react until it was given.
hippy - I do agree with you on FeLV testing though, it is something I only ever have done if the vet recommends it due to certain symptoms, so only 2 of mine have ever been tested. It is also something I wont vaccinate against though.
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ive never seen an allergic reaction to an anaesthetic.
i suspect it a) either had some underlying abnormality with liver etc which a blood test would have picked up or b) badly managed /monitored anaesthetics c) it went into laryngeal spasm and lack of oxygen lead to death.
Hi Lynn,
PM was done but nothing showed up -
My personal opinion is "miss monitoring" but of course i would never tell my friend that !!
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You wait for the sword to fall. I'd rather not know.
hippy i dont know how old you are but does that mean if or when you are of the age to need mammary screening every 5 years (or whatever the interval, im not that age yet) / cervical smears every 3 years you dont go to get this done as you will deal with the cancer if and when you get it ??
:Crazy: :Crazy: :Crazy:
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Michelle i might be inclined to agree with you.
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hippy i dont know how old you are but does that mean if or when you are of the age to need mammary screening every 5 years (or whatever the interval, im not that age yet) / cervical smears every 3 years you dont go to get this done as you will deal with the cancer if and when you get it ??
You know Lynn I had never thought about it like that, however as you know I am a big believer in the saying leaving it till tomorrow may be too late.
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To answer Lynn's question....
I'm 48, don't, and won't have mammary screening as I check my breasts regularly. If I find a lump, I'll see the doc. I have already had a benign lump removed (it was called something like a fibroadenoma). I found this while in the bath, then immediately went to the docs. (The needle biopsy was so painful I wish I hadn't!).
I do have regular smears. I've had an abnormal one and had a polyp removed. I had to have yearly ones for four years after this. I go because it does not traumatise me in any way to go to the doctor's, whereas it does traumatise my cats to go to the vet. (Also because I know I'm at high risk due to having higher than average partners.)
Because of chronic health problems I have to go to the docs frequently anyway. But the health problems have symptoms, therefore any tests are done as the result of these; not therefore equivalent to the checks done on healthy cats.
Desley, I agree with you about the FLV vaccination except with a kitten unlikely to have been already exposed to the virus. In that case, I'd vaccinate without prior FLV testing.