Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat Health & Behaviour => Health & Behaviour General => Topic started by: BTC on August 21, 2009, 13:58:31 PM
-
Hi all,
First post so please be gentle!
Little Billy the Cat (lilac tabby persian) is 13yrs old and has wee'd a couple of times in places in he shouldn't (ie our bedroom). I took him to the vets as we were quite concerned by this, as he always uses his tray (and still does 99% of the time).
The vet did a blood test and the results were: Creatinine 327 / Urea 19.3 So it would appear that the poor little mite has CRF.
The Vet has prescribed the following:
KD Diet (Wet) (Billy has always eaten wet food, so no worries here)
Kaminox
Fortekor
I'm just a bit concerned that this is a bit much - hence my post. Billy was the runt of the litter and has always been a very small cat, he was around 3.5kg but is currently around 2.9kg. He still has a good appetite (generally eats around 3 to 4 packs of Felix per day) and drinks water - although not as much. He goes out into the garden for an hour or so in the evenings, and similar on the weekends, but he is largely an indoor cat. His eyes are bright, and he purrs and jumps up on the tables etc. still. Not having done this before, I guess I wondering if these meds are ok all together and what others thought of them - those who had tried them. I certainly don't want to make him worse in any way. He doesn't appear to be majorly ill (in fact if it were not for his couple of accidents in the bedroom, I doubt I would have taken him to the vets!).
My other question is what to make of the blood test figures - how does this compare? Are things a lot worse than it looks? Any guage on what to expect re: how long left? etc. I guess I'm really looking for some indication from others who have had (or are in, a similar experience). We are both devastated by this news. I just hope there is still some decent time to be had with him.
Thank you for reading.
-
there are loads of people on here who will be able to advise - I'm sure sometime will be along soon, welcome to you and Billy
-
Hi, those are similar blood results that my Swampy had a month ago. My vet said it was moderate CRF. He is on the same meds. It's not really much! All UK vets swear by fortekor. Only one question- did he do a urinalysis and is there protein in the urine as fortekor works best if there is.
Only other thing I would check is blood pressure - as the kidneys get worse the bp goes up and cats can be helped with amlodipine (Istin) as well.
As the creatinine is over 300 (he wasn't dehydrated when the test was done?) you could speak to your vet about doing sub cut fluids as they are a life saver. They don't flush the kidneys, but keep CRF cats hydrated. They all have a problem with dehydration as the kidneys are failing.
the very best site for all manner of info on everything CRF that you could possibly need to know, written in a way that is so helpful to owners: http://www.felinecrf.org/
Everything is on there, it's brilliant. There is also a yahoo CRF group linked to it. Americans are a way ahead in treatment of CRF than in the UK to be honest. Good luck with Billy.
-
:welcome: to Purrs..... :)
Im sure you will find all the help and info you need from the lovely peeps on here with their CRF babes! ;) :hug:
-
Hiya, and :welcome: to Purrs ;D
I'll check those readings against the first ones I had for my boy Max when he was first diagnosed with CRF, I can't honestly remember what the creatine levels were :shy: and they did fluctuate in the year and a half he had the condition.
Fortekor is the main known drug for treating kidney issues, my friend has a cat also with CRF who is doing well on that at the moment, alongside a renal diet.
Not sure what Kaminox is though :shy:
Think we need some piccies of Billy, just so we can see who we're advising about ;) :hug: ;D
We defo likes our piccies :)
PS well done for catching this early :hug:
-
:welcome: to Purrs, sorry it's not under happier circumstances :hug:
There is an absolutely excellent website which I refer to as the 'CRF bible' www.felinecrf.org Everything is written in laymen's terms and it is an absolute mine of information.
I had a cat with CRF and had very good results with the Fortekor, she was 17 when diagnosed with CRF and had readings of Creatinie 312 / Urea 35. I lost her almost two years later from an unrelated illness and her last blood results were in the normal range, Creatinine 97 / Urea 9. I don't have any experience of Kaminox but believe it's a potassium supplement.
How is Billy getting on with the KD? My cat wouldn't eat the renal foods so I fed her 'normal' cat food but with a phosphorous binder sprinkled on to make it more suitable for her kidneys.
There are quite a few of us on here who have had experience of CRF in cats so I'm sure there'll be others who can give you more advice and support too. Would love to see a pic of Billy ;D
-
:welcome: to Purrs, BTC: glad you found us and decided to join, although I'm sorry it is at a time of worry.
We're always gentle on here, so don't worry about that ;)
Some good advice already - do check out the CRF site that swampmaxmum and Helen mentioned as well :hug:
-
Kaminox is a potassium supplement but contains vit B, amino acids and iron so helps anaemia too and general well being. It doesn't seem to taste too horrible but watch out if you get it on you as it stains yellow. The only thing I read was don't give it at exactly the same time as the fortekor and monitor his potassium levels once he starts it to see if he needs a bit more or a bit less.
-
Wow! Thank you all so very, very much for the quick responses. We are both so very soft when it comes to animals (of course, especially our own) - it's so good to hear so many people are out there offering help/support. Much appreciated and needed by us at this time - it was a shock for both of us. About a year ago he was treated for an over-active thyroid and had a successful op. He's been fine since, although his weight loss has concerned us - this was what pushed us over the edge; he's normally so very clean. At least he's mostly doing it in the right place!
I've booked in for a 9.30am appt on Wed with another vet in the area as to be honest, our current one is a bit well, cold. He just doesn't appear to be a major animal lover - or at least that's how he comes across to us. The new vet has asked us to just put Billy onto the KD Diet for now, so although I gave him his first dose of Kaminox and Fortekor this morning, I will hold back and wait until I have seen the other vet. He is also going to get Billy's history and blood results. I think I would be happier to stage the introduction of drugs, rather than give him several at once. Good point about the urine sample - my current vet didn't ask for one, nor did he check Billy's potassium levels. So that concerned me a bit - hence the 2nd opinion next week.
I just hope to god that Billy is with us for a long time yet. You always know that these things will eventually come about, but no matter what, you can never prepare yourself. I had a little wail about it on my own in the toilet yesterday (after hearing the news from the vet), and I dont mind admitting that I'm a 37yr old bloke. Pet's have always done me in. We're as bad as each other, but I'm trying to be upbeat about it all in front of the missus!
Thanks again everyone!
-
Hey! In my book.... Blokes are truly "Blokes" when they are not afraid to show their feelings! ;) :Luv: :hug:
-
Nothing wrong with being attached to our animals matey :hug: and nothing wrong with showing ya feelings either :)
When illnesses like this come about, trusting your vet is 100% important, you have to know that the advice they are given is right, and knowing that they are compassionate animal lovers as well makes a huge difference :)
-
Forgot to say, the renal diets offered can be a bit bland, so its often hit and miss as to whether your cat will eat them.
A good compromise is to try mixing renal food in with senior food, and maybe add a phospherous binder as TiggysMum suggested earlier.
There's lots to take in at the moment, so try not to feel overwhelmed :hug:
-
A vet you trust is 100% essential as CRF is a rollercoaster and you'll have lots of questions and you need to trust their judgement and they need to be there for you and Billy.
It's pretty sure any UK vet is going to put your Billy on fortekor. As for kaminox, a little dropper full every day shouldn't be any problem. It's not a drug, just a food supplement which makes them feel a bit better.
I'd ask if your new vet would help you with sub cutaneous fluids (by syringe is easier than by giving set/bag) at home for Billy. Not all UK vets do it but all American ones seem to and it helps so much. They can't get enough hydration from just drinking when they go into kidney failure. Fortekor works on some cats and not others I think.
I'd redo the bloods and urinalysis before doing anything, just to make sure of the blood numbers and that Billy wasn't dehydrated when they were taken as that can send the values right up.
We all howl our eyes out for our little furry loved ones, you're in good company :hug: don't despair about Billy.
-
I have 2 cats with CRF. One was diagnosed almost 3 years ago and the other about 6 months ago. They are both on Fortekor and are supposed to be on renal food but will rarely eat it so I use senior food or regular food but either way add binders to it. Kaminx is new to me as my vet has never suggested Potassium supplements but oddly I am worried about Willow (the recent diagnosis) as she hangs her head at times which is a sign of potassium deficiency so I want to get her bloods done again. My vet hasn't suggested sub-q's yet and it would be very difficult as neither of them are easy to handle.
Fortekor can rasie creatinine levels initially for a few days so they can get worse before they get better. It is strange that Billy is drinking less as the first sign of CRF is drinking more as their kidneys are less able to concentrate the urine.
There are a few renal foods around and mine refuse point blank to eat Hills k/d so worth trying the others but don't hold your breath. Senior food has much less phosphorus than adult food but still nowhere as low as renal food. Don't buy any of the foos or binders from your vet as it is much cheaper online from places like vetUK (although still expensive) Royal Canin you a wet renal diet in 3 diffeent flavours and also purina do a renal pate in small tins that seems more palatable.
As for lifespan, there is no kind of guide really as all cats are different. Fortekor is good for slowing down progress of CRF keep with it if you can.
There is an excellent website called Tanya's CRF site but as you will see, there is a mine of information on there and it can be quite bewildering. http://www.felinecrf.org/ This is the definitive site for CRF.
-
Thankyou for the information - it is all greatly received, believe me. Having read all the posts, we both feel somewhat more hopeful that there is at least a chance that Billy will see some more of life yet. It's great to hear that CRF doesn't necessarily mean the end is near. That is very reassuring. I just hope that Billy is only in the early stages, and that we have time to make a difference by changing his diet etc.
I started him on the KD Chicken Mince (small-tin's) yesterday and am very pleased to report that he is on his 3rd tin today! For a cat weighing less than 3kg he sure can eat! I hope that the diet helps him to put back on a bit more weight though - seeing him go from 3.5 to 2.9kg was worrying, although in himself he doesn't appear any different. I'm actively changing his water for him on a regular basis, and watched him drink a fair bit last night in about 3 seperate sittings (was a bit worried that he wasn't actually drinking enough!).
I will look to get some other flavours / brands and try to mix things up for him. Am also thinking of putting in some pieces of fresh chicken a couple of times a week (is that ok?)
Its so reassuring to know that we are not alone. I'm very glad to have found this site! We are back to the (new) Vet on Wednesday. I'll keep you informed. Only pain is we go on our honeymoon in 2wks time and the missus' dad is going to be looking after him - part of us both wishes we weren't going now... Our wedding is next weekend. This couldn't have come at a worse time - although that is typical of Billy... always the center of attention!! :innocent:
-
There is some controversy with renal food being so low in protein. A lot of experts now say that the original testing was done in rats whic are obviously different to cats and renal diets are too low in protein for them. What they are now saying is protein is fine but it needs to be good quality protein that is bioavailable from things like eggs and meat.
This is one of the many articles http://www.ehow.com/facts_4896669_low-protein-diet-cats.html
At the same time, renal food does have extra vitamin E etc which is good so personally I prefer a mix or renal and other food with good quality protein and like mine to have chicken a couple of times a week etc.- it is a personal choice obviously. Some of the experts now think that it is unnatural for cats to eat low protein diets and it can cause muscle wastage.
-
Blimey I've got so much to learn!
With that in mind, would it be an idea to cook a chicken, chop it up and add a bit to most of Billy's meals? Or buy some packs of fresh chicken slices (not processed), which saves having to keep having to roast chickens! I want to make sure he's getting optimum nutrition, but I don't want to feed him the wrong stuff! I've made a note to make sure that whatever he eats is v.low in phosphorous - im just not sure about anything else to watch for. We've only put him on the KD Diet because thats what the Vet recommended. I'm happy to go for anything that has worked for others. Please feel free to share any other food ideas, I'm all ears!
-
The protein idea is not for everyone and I would imagine most vets will always say stick with the renal diet only but to me it makes sense that cats need protein. I wouldn't buy chicken slices as there are usually salts and nitrates added and often, the worst thing possible, phosphates - I think it unlikely any ready sliced chicken isn't processed in some way. The same goes for ham and any other processed meats. I do allow the odd bit of ham as they still deserve treats but just trying to keep the balance.
Did your vet say Billy had low Potassium? - Tanya's CRF site says Kaminox is dangerous to use unless the vet says the cat has low potassium. Also, I saw a warning saying it should not be given to cats with a low water intake. This is the first time I have heard of a cat with CRF that doesn't drink much. In fact, I am taking Willow to the vet again this week as her drinking has increased a lot over the last few weeks.
Another thing I do is give them filtered water to minimize any nasties - especially as they drink so much.
Edit - I had a look in Sainsbury's today at their packs of Sliced chicken breast and they all contain diphosphates and/or triphosphates.
You could always cook it yourself and freeze small amounts in bags? _ used to do that with Kylie's fish. I wold take on out of the freezer each morning and put it in the fridge so it was thawed for the evening.
-
Fingers crossed he responds well to the treatment, and I am glad he is eating the K/D, my vet doesn't offer it anymore as she doesn't find many cats like it, but RC do a variety and there are also at least 2 CRF foods available through Zooplus, and 2 more available from VetUK.
-
The protein idea is not for everyone and I would imagine most vets will always say stick with the renal diet only but to me it makes sense that cats need protein. I wouldn't buy chicken slices as there are usually salts and nitrates added and often, the worst thing possible, phosphates - I think it unlikely any ready sliced chicken isn't processed in some way. The same goes for ham and any other processed meats. I do allow the odd bit of ham as they still deserve treats but just trying to keep the balance.
Did your vet say Billy had low Potassium? - Tanya's CRF site says Kaminox is dangerous to use unless the vet says the cat has low potassium. Also, I saw a warning saying it should not be given to cats with a low water intake. This is the first time I have heard of a cat with CRF that doesn't drink much. In fact, I am taking Willow to the vet again this week as her drinking has increased a lot over the last few weeks.
Another thing I do is give them filtered water to minimize any nasties - especially as they drink so much.
Edit - I had a look in Sainsbury's today at their packs of Sliced chicken breast and they all contain diphosphates and/or triphosphates.
You could always cook it yourself and freeze small amounts in bags? _ used to do that with Kylie's fish. I wold take on out of the freezer each morning and put it in the fridge so it was thawed for the evening.
Thanks for the info Mark. Good point about the processed meat / phosphates. I will take a look at cooked drumsticks and see if they are any better, but we will probably end up staying safe and preparing chicken ourselves.
We don't know whether he has a low potassium level yet as the vet did not check (but was happy to put him on Kaminox!!) When I asked he said I could bring Billy back and he would check - that somewhat annoyed me, and is one of the reasons I am taking Billy to another vet on Wednesday. After speaking with the new vet we have only given Billy the new KD Diet food - no Kaminox or Fortekor. After Wednesday, depending on the outcome we may introduce one or both. Of course, I'm very much hoping that he won't yet require either but considering his initial blood test last week, it would appear that he will.
Question to everyone: What diet food have you found your cat enjoys? I need to get some other options for Billy as although he is eating the KD Chicken mince, I want to get a few options so I can rotate a bit. (Desley - thanks for the info provided about this!)
I will put a pic of Billy up very soon. Just need to get one put online first!
-
You can get 3 flavours of renal wet from Royal Canin, tuna, chicken and beef. There are like chunks in a light gravy.
If your new vets can get it, there's another one called Specific which is more of a pate style, and my boy Max ate this for a while.
He did go off all the foods eventually though, so I had to get inventive and mix it with same flavour ordinary foods, but that did also work as it made the food smellier and a bit more palitable.
With a lot of these foods its trial and error.
Evetually I gave up with the renal wet and just gave senior food with the phospherous binder, and then gave him RC renal biscuits to offset any effects.
His creatinine levels were stable during his illness, normally between 270-300, and that was without any actual drugs for his kidneys.
However my boy had thyroid issues too which hand in hand made treatment more difficult, so your treatment might well be different anyway.
I've probably confused you more now :shy: Sorry :shy:
-
Ok, I've just put an order in for several different brands/flavours. Will see which one's he enjoys most!
Billy had his thyroid removed early last year. Touch wood he's been fine since.
Another question: Urine sample - how on earth are you supposed to get one? I've tried asking Billy, but I think he told me, in no uncertain terms, to go away...
-
Clare has a lot of experience with this - I will let her explain :beer: :evillaugh:
-
Another question: Urine sample - how on earth are you supposed to get one? I've tried asking Billy, but I think he told me, in no uncertain terms, to go away...
What always works here is to get one of those shallow black supermarket meal pots (like have a curry side dish or dal in) and make sure it's scrubbed clean of any traces of food, then wait for the cat to start peeing and pop it under his bum. I've never failed to get enough for a urine sample as you don't need much at all. If all else fails, you could take Billy to the vet where they will express his bladder but I'd try the 'curry pot' method first. Good luck.
Btw I've asked my vet re kaminox as both of my boys always had normal potassium levels and I read all the warnings. He said that 1ml a day is entirely safe for normal range potassium levels in CRF cats. Apparently in CRF the potassium markers can be masked in some way. It also contains amino acids, iron and vit B which are very helpful. But if Billy has higher than normal potassium, or very top end of normal, I think you'd have to be careful.
My vet vetoed any processed meats as they all have a high sodium content. He said if I want to give some fresh food, to cook it myself with nothing added, but not to give too much as too much protein is harmful. If you're going to feed some protein though (as Mark says there is a discussion going on about this) make sure it is high quality protein, not junk food if possible. HTH and can we see a photo of Billy? :hug:
-
Yikes! Sounds like fun ahead...
I'll give it a go. If I don't report back it's most likely because I've been scratched to death.
Thanks for the Kaminox info. I agree that I think the Kaminox addition will be fine as I think its more of a supplement than a drug per se. Just want to be sure before going ahead though. I will try him on several varieties of prescription food before anything. After all, if he is eating all his food then I guess there is no real reason to add extra protein to his diet.
Pic time (sorry for the dodgy quality - cameraphone in a low-lit room!)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3454/3851498277_e7324effc3.jpg)
He's a persian so he comes with the scrunched up face - but we love him even more because of it!!
-
Clare has a lot of experience with this - I will let her explain :beer: :evillaugh:
Indeed I do :rofl: and I ended up with much the same method as Kate ;D
The funny litter stuff they give you a nightmare, Max would never go anywhere near it and would just hold it in for hours :doh:
So we devised a cunning plan, put the horrid litter down for several hours, then when said cat is doing a little 'I need a wee' dance, put their normal litter down and hover! When they're mid stream, lift up tail, stick pot/glass under stream, and voila ;D
Be prepared to be given a kitty death stare though :evillaugh:
Seriously, for me it was the only way to get a sample ;)
-
Update:
We are very worried :'(
Billy has been off his food and very quiet all weekend - he has mostly just licked his food. We even tried him back on Felix (Senior) but he's the same with that. He's so very quiet and sleeps a lot. Is this to be expected of a CRF kitty? Do they go on/off food for several days occasionaly?
I took him to the vets yesterday for a BP check the vet had requested - turns out he has high BP. The vet has put him on a course of Istin. He had his first tablet when he got home, and another this morning.
It is really worrying us that he is not eating - he normally eats for England (although has never been a lardy pud). Have tried about 5 different types of renal food and am back on felix senior - which is the only one he's even looked at - apparently he had a couple of mouthfulls this morning after I left, but nowhere near enough. His urea/creatinine levels haven't changed (for the worse), so that's some relief at least.
It's killing us because we go away on our honeymoon tomorrow and my wife's mum/dad are going to be looking after him. Whilst that is great, you can imagine how we feel about not being there. We are no doubt going to thinking about him all the time we are away - which probably won't make, what should be a time to remember for life, the best of memories. If he hasn't eaten anymore by the time I get in today, I think I might take him back to the vet's so that the vet can try to figure out what is up with the poor mite -- the only thing is we don't want to unnecessarily stress Billy out. But I don't really see another option - if he's not eating / eating enough.
It's really not supposed to be like this so soon after your marriage day! :( :'(
-
I would get him to the vets to be checked over due to your hol, CRF cats can have hit and miss days with food, but at least it would help put your mind at ease. It might also be worth seeing if your vet will board him while you are away. I hope you get to enjoy your holiday.
-
I was just about to post the same thing as Desley. At least he can be monitored at the vets. Apparently CRF feels like having a hangover when the symptoms are bad. increased toxins make them feel rough and dehydration more so. It's a vicious circle. I was in the kitchen cooking chicken at midnight the other night as I wrongly thought Willow would take her pill in ham. I was also crawling around on hands & knees in the garden at 1am this morning getting her to eat spiked chicken :Crazy:
It is often described as the CRF rollercoaster. I know each cat is different but Clapton refused to eat when he was first diagnosed and he had a steroid shot to kick-start his appetite and apart from when he had a mouth infection the other week, he hasn't stopped eating since.
My vet said to give them any food they will eat if they aren't eating and worry about giving them the proper food when their appetite is back. If it means giving them adult food which is tastier, that is fie. You can always add some binders. Willow loves the Hi-life tinned fish which I know is high phosphorus but when she won't eat, I allow it but with an extra squirt of Renalzin in.
-
Hiya, defo agree another vet visit, or at least a chat on the phone with them, would help set your mind at ease a little.
CRF cats can defo have days where they won't eat very much, Max was very up and down, as the toxins etc can make then feel sick and a bit poorly. Is he showing interest in his bowl then just not eating as much? If thats the case then he probably is feeling a bit yucky :hug:
The Istin can made them feel a bit weird as well, Max was on 1/8 tab a day and it took a few days for him to settle with that. Its good that the high BP has been picked up and treated as this can lead to blindness, so pleased that your vet is switched on :hug:
Try to enjoy your honeymoon, just make sure that they are fully briefed in what to look out for if there are any problems, and let them know that you have an agreement with your vets for them to take him in for a check-up if they are concerned, and that you have pre-agreed to pay the costs of any treatments which may ensue. That way you're covered xxx
-
thanks everyone. it is so comforting to know that we are not alone in this. I would imagine it would appear ridiculous to some, just how much we treasure our little bag of fluff, but both of us have always been moggy lovers! god, don't they know how to tear your heart out though!!!
I will call the vet when I get home, with a mind to taking Billy back in. I dont think it's fair for my wifes dad to be left in this situation. However, with any luck he can then pick Billy up once he has had a bit of nursing. Our only concern is that like most cats, he doesn't generally like the vets. I'd hate for him to think we'd gone and left him (her dad always stays around when we go on hols, so he has no experience of a cattery / boarding etc).
-
In that situation, he'd probably be more settled staying at home, but on the proviso that you can get him into the vets if required.
You are definitely not alone :hug:
-
Hi BTC,
My boy Schui had CRF and was like that on and off and it is a worry. Like Mark's cat my Schui had to have steroids on and off to help his appetite but he had other issues too. The cat I have now has high bp and is also on 1/8 of Istin dailly and Pep's bp was about normal last visit so hopefully Billy will feel better soon. Staying at the vets sounds a good idea but if Billy is used to your dad and upset at the vets then maybe with your dad would be the best opton but I would have a word with your vet and see what they can suggest. Hope everything goes well xx
-
I got back from work this afternoon and BTC was in the bedroom. He meowed at me! (sometimes it takes the smallest of things!!!) :wow: :Luv2:
I took him downstaires and put some fresh food and water down, said a quick prayer and put the food down... He ate - and then ate some more!!!!!!!
5mins ago I got up from the settee (he was on my lap), he got off and came into the kitchen with me (on his own steam) and ate some more!!!!
You know how you can just tell when your kitty is not right - well I can sense that he is on the mend now - he's got a fair bit of spark back in him this afternoon. Fingers crossed he's pulling through - Im hoping it was nothing more than possibly some kind of minor infection. I think the vit b12 shot yesterday might have helped him get over it. I guess the BP tabs might have also started to kick in (he had his 2nd this morning).
Touch wood we can go on our honeymoon feeling a whole lot better about our little BTC ;D
-
Thats good news :hug: sounds like the meds are kicking in, and you will be able to enjoy your honeymoon. By the way, Billy looks lovely - what colour is he? can't quite tell from the photo - I've got persians (9 to be exact LOL!) my Sam has HCM and CRF, but he's doing pretty well at the moment on Fortekor and diuretics.
-
I am so pleased - that is great news I think that you are right the injection and tablets should make him much better fairly quickly :)
-
Good news that he's got his appetite back ;D
-
Glad he has perked up
-
That sounds better!
-
update:
Well he certainly knows how to play us!
The very night we got back from our honeymoon we had to take him to the vets. He was fine when we got in, but 1hr later he began to lose his balance and his pupils went wide and kept flicking from left to right. Scared the life out of us, and him!
Thankfully, the vet diagnosed Senile Vestibular Syndrome - said that it was common in old cats, and that luckily it should only ever happen once (if it happens at all). Sure enough within 24-48hrs Billy was back to normal.
Since we've been back (since 18th), he's been excellent. Eating lots - and whats more - all renal food, without prompting. Even enjoying the odd funny 5 minute sprint around downstaires. Only thing that slightly concerns me is that he doesnt appear to have put back on any weight (he's only around 2.8kg) - even with his greatly improved appetite. But he's eating well, and is far more perky so I don't think theres much more I can do. Thank god for small mercies and all that!!
The missus is getting some more Istin for him this afternoon, and is going to take him for a BP check on friday.
Am hoping that we are out of the woods now for the forseeable future. :thanks:
-
Hiya, welcome back, hope you had a lovely time ;D
He certainly does know how to worry you though, I know nothing about vestibular syndrome, but hopefully it was a one-off :hug:
So pleased he's taken to the renal diet as well, it can be very hit and miss, so this is great! You will find that getting him to put weight on though might be tricky, cats with renal issues do tend to lose weight, and often its more noticable around the rear end more than anywhere else, its certainly where it was visible with my boy Max. Just make sure he's eating and drinking a good amount, and you'll be surprised how long they can stay fit and healthy, even without gaining weight :hug:
-
thanks - we had a great time, mostly because we knew we weren't leaving a sick little man behind. We had even discussed the possibility of postponing the honeymoon as we would have been sooo miserable if he was still ill when we left. Luckily it didnt come to that - maybe that was his wedding present to us!
Apparently the vestibular thingyme - something to do with an inflammation of the inner-ear. They still don't know why though. But it apparently doesnt generally come back and it passes quite quickly.
Yes, the weight thing is a bit worrying, but as long as he doesn't keep losing weight and continues to eat etc. then I think we'll be ok. Definately noticed it around the rear end - his back legs have lost a bit of muscle/fat and his spine can be felt when you run your hand along his back - not massively, but it can be felt now, whereas before this all started it wasn't really too noticeable.
But it doesn't seem to bother him in the slightest now - thankfully. ;D
-
Hiya ;D
Glad to hear you've had a good honeymoon and that Billy is doing well! Regarding the weight, with Schui I asked the vet this as he was a quite a tubby cat before and he lost weight especially round his back end, the vet said that this does tend to happen and it is good if they eat well be it renal food or their normal food. Glad to hear that Billy is enjoying his food :hug:
-
I am going to try spraying this on renal food to see if it helps. It says it is suitable for CRF cats so nothing (Well £3.90 :evillaugh:) to lose
-
<insert link to vet uk here> mark :rofl:
-
<insert link to vet uk here> mark :rofl:
:-[
http://www.vetuk.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5_223&products_id=3264
-
I am glad he is doing well, and when you get his repeat bloods done, i would get his thyroid checked just to be on the safe side.
-
thanks Desley!
Billy had his thyroid removed last year, so I think we can rule that out!
He's having his BP done this afternoon - he doesn't much like having his BP done, the machine makes him jump. The wife's going to be with him this time as it calms him down a fair bit, and hopefully gives a better reading. Hoping for around 180ish... fingers crossed.
-
update:
Billy's been pretty good since my last update. Generally quite happy and eating quite well. His weight increased by 100gms when he had his last check done, about 1wk ago, so that's good news. Unfortunately he's been sick on a couple of occasions and so the vet has put him on 1/4 tab of famotidine - he hasn't been sick since, so that seems to be working. He like to play up with his food a bit, especially with me it seems. Lorraine puts down his renal food and he eats a fair bit of it. I try the same and he looks at me, almost in disgust. :evillaugh: I either have to mix it with Felix Senior, or just give him Felix Senior but with some Renalzin mixed in. The vet noticed that his phos level was up at the last check, so we're making sure he gets the binder both with the Senior food and with the Renal food.
Creatine down to 260 now, and BP down to 190 (he doesnt really like it being done, so I think its elevated a bit more than normal when its taken), so both much better from before. Am of course hoping to get both down further, especially the BP. I think the Istin/Fortekor combination seems to be doing its job. He has appeared to be in a much better mood generally, since starting on the Fortekor.
Mark - did you try that food appetiser spray thing? Did it work? I was thinking of trying some on the renal food. He seems to be on and off it at the moment - several varieties.
Hopefully things will calm down a bit now. Just wish he'd not be so fussy with the renal stuff! :P :naughty:
-
Good to hear Billy's doing well :hug:
-
Glad to hear he is doing well - unless he had both thyroid glands removed, he could develop thyroid probs again in the future.
-
update:
touch wood all is going well. seems that the course of meds he's on is working well. he has his istin/fortekor at breakfast and his famotidine in the evening. he has a couple of squirts of renalzin on his felix senior, which we intersperse with his renal food. we've also found the cat food spray works quite well on the renal food - certainly makes it more appetizing for him it appears.
the famotidine has really stopped his dodgy tum as he has hardly been sick since starting it, which is great.
back to the vets later this week for another blood test - its been about 6wks since the last so fingers crossed all's well. I've read that you should treat the cat and not the disease, well if thats the case, then I'm happy with how things are as Billy appears to be doing very well, all things considered. just hope his levels have come back to some sense of normality!
-
Sounds good :)
I had Clapton's bloods done earlier this year but unless he appears ill, I can't see the point as it is so stressful for him - he has had bloods done once in 3 years and I'm not going to subject him to 6 monthly ones for no good reason.
-
Good to hear that Billy is still doing well :) and best of luck with the bloods this week xx
-
Glad to hear he is doing well.
-
He sounds like he's doing just fine :Luv:
Good luck with the bloods, and hope his levels have stabilised a bit :hug:
-
update:
Billy had his bloods done again and I am glad to report back that his levels are all good. Nothing scary to report thankfully - very happy to add that his BP is back down to normal at last. The amplodipine has done its job!
So glad that the meds appear to have done their job. He still has a cracking appetite, even though he only weighs around 2.7kg... So I take that as a good sign.
I hope to be able to keep reporting back like this for years to come!!! :evillaugh: ;)
-
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Fab! ;D
-
Glad to hear this.
-
Great news :)
Hopefully he will follow in Clapton's footsteps 3 years, 4 months and still doing well :)
-
Hi Mark
I can only hope, but it certainly does give me great comfort to know that!
-
Update:
Unfortunately not so good. :'( Took Billy to the vet last Friday as he hadn't been himself for several days last week, wasnt eating much at all and had constipation. Turns out his numbers were all very high. Seems he had crashed. :'( The vet adminstered fluids sub-cutaneously along with a durabolin shot and off we went - he's been much, much better over the weekend, eating well and pooing again (yay)! :Luv2:
Took him back this morning to enquire about doing the Sub-Cuts at home but the vet was against it. He said that he had done sub-cuts on several CRF cats in the past and on the whole the benefits were not enough to warrant their continuous usage. Instead Billy's now staying at the vets on an IV drip for somewhere between 1-4 days whilst the vet can monitor his numbers and get them back down to the best they can be, before he comes back home. It was hard because he's been bright as a button again over the weekend, and ate a whole packet of food only this morning - but in the vets opinion this is the best time to go on the IV as it means he wont be on it as long, and his levels wont be as high as they would be thanks to the sub-cut he had on friday.
Having to leave him at the vets kills us. I wish I could tell him it's only to make him feel well. Still, I do trust the vet and his staff are lovely, so I know Billys in good hands. Even though, I'd much rather he was at home. I have this horrible feeling that the rollercoaster ride could well be coming to an end. Even writing that brings tears to my eyes.
It's horrible not knowing how long you have left with your little ball of fluff. Still, they say treat the cat not the numbers, and this is the first time he's crashed so I'm hoping he sticks around for a while yet.
-
Aw, sorry to hear this, you must be worried :hug: :hug:
Your vet sounds good though, the iv fluid is the best idea for now, and Billy will be in safe hands :hug:
Can you go and visit him, maybe take a jumper or something which smells of home and will relax him? :hug:
-
Am sorry to hear this, fingers crossed the drip works well.
-
Thank you both. It's been quite cathartic to come here and update every so often. So good to know there are other owners who have experienced the rollercoaster that CRF is. Should be hearing from the vet's this morning to see how our little man's done after a day/night on the IV. I know it can take several days, and in some cases I've read doesn't do that much, but we're both hoping that it does him some good. As I said before, he was quite perky over the weekend and was still eating ok, so we're hopeful that the IV will help to bring his numbers back down to something more manageable. Am a bit gutted that the Vet didn't think that Sub-Cuts would be of benefit as it seems US Vets think differently. Still, I'm not a vet and I don't want to keep Billy alive just for our sake - But I do want to do all I can for him whilst he appears to still be enjoying life.
Would be very interested to hear from anyone who has had their CRF fluffball on a drip.
Thanks again. :thanks:
-
I've no experience of crf myself but I'm sure people on here have done sub cuts - I personally don't agree with keeping them going for our sake, but if he has life left in him its definitely worth asking around
-
I have mixed feelings with it as it pulled Willow around last Easter but she had another 6 months of being poorly so I have to question if it was a good thing. Myabe others have more positive experiences.
-
Just had a call from the vet:
His creatinine level hasn't come down but his urea level has a bit. Saying that he appears perky and is eating well. The vet thinks that it may take another 2-3 days before his creatinine numbers come down to a more manageable level, but he is happy that Billy appears well in himself and said that it is often the case that IVs have no impact on the numbers initially. He said it was good timing to have him on the IV now as he thinks his creatinine levels would have continued upwards without the IV.
We're going to see him after work. Can't wait.
-
Hope your visit went well :hug:
I dont want to sound down but your vet has explained that these fluids will only last a limited time?
-
Visit went well - Billy spent most of the time we were there eating :evillaugh: So good to see his appetite is as good as ever. Hoping that his numbers start to come down today. Would really like to get him back by the weekend.
Yes, I know the fluids only last a limited time, however I have read of many other CRF cats who have lasted quite some time thanks to fluid therapy, so I live in hope. The vet I spoke to last night (another partner at the surgery) seemed more open to the idea of sub-cuts, so its an ongoing discussion. So long as he's still jumping about and eating we will do whatever we can for him. Some rollercoaster this is. My first furrball lasted 19yrs and she had fullfat milk every day!
-
Ok some great news. Billys BUN level has halved over the past 24hrs! :wow: He's down to 20mg/dl now. :naughty: :naughty: :naughty:
He's staying for at least another day though as the vet wants to see if his levels will come down anymore - wants to get a baseline before removing the drip, as that way he knows Billys at his best level before finishing the therapy. Have also seen some good reviews of a new renal food I hadn't seen before - Integra Protect Renal, so have ordered some of that to go with his Royal Canin. Yay. (For now!). The rollercoaster continues...
-
good news!
-
Good news indeed :)
It defo is a roller coaster, and all you can do is ride it and see what happens :hug: :hug:
-
Oops - got that wrong, it was 20mmol/l (I was using the US metric). As such, clearly its about double that of a normal furbag, but much better than the original figure of 42. Its stayed the same this morning so we are able to take him home tonight which is good and bad news. Ideally would have loved to see BUN come down to mid teens, but I guess I'm just happy that we've seen a 50% reduction on what was a very bad original number. Just really hope that he has enough nephrons left in his ickle kidneys to maintain a decent balance for some time to come. Seems that we might be able to get sub-cuts arranged after all, still discussing the in's and out's of it. Might have to bring him in to begin with.
Will take him back in a couple of weeks to see what his numbers are like after this has all settled. Fingers (and everything else) crossed that this has given him a boost that lasts for some time. :Luv2:
Thanks for the support to everyone who has replied to date. A problem shared and all that. :thanks:
-
glad he can come home, don't really understand all the numbers but less must be good!
-
Good news he can come home :Luv2:
I used to get lost with all the numbers too, it was creatinine I used to pay most attention to as that's what used to fluctuate more with Maxy, his other readings where always only just upper end of normal, but that might have been masked by his thyroid issues, I found it all most overwhelming and confusing, as I think do/did many of us on the CRF rollercoaster :shy:
-
Just read this thread for 1st time and sending a few :hug: :hug: :hug: to Billy.
So glad he will be on his way home soon :). He is lucky to have such caring parents :)
-
:) That's good news
-
Blimey! Billy's put a whole KILO on since Tuesday lunchtime, when he started on the IV, till this evening. He's back up to 3.5kg, which was his weight when the CRF was first diagnosed, back in August. :Crazy:
Really wasnt expecting to see his weight increase that much at all. Really, really chuffed - and so is the vet. Smiles all round tonight. Hope he can keep it on for as long as possible!
-
I would guess that a lot of it is water but I'm sure there is still a good real weight gain in there. Glad to see he is doing well :)
-
yes, im sure youre spot on. still, if he only keeps a quarter of it i'll be chuffed! :Luv2:
-
Am glad that he is doing well and has put some weight on.
-
The rollercoaster is finally over. Billy, the absolute love of our life, was put to sleep this afternoon after his CRF became too much for the poor mite. :( :( :(
The IV last week helped him get over the initial crash, but then even after two further sub-cuts, his BUN kept rising, surpassing his previous high. This week he's been in our bedroom sat on the side table, really not being himself at all - although in fairness, he hasn't been 100% for some time - far more withdrawn. As such, we knew it was time to let him go. It wouldnt have been fair to him to be continuously in and out of the vets. Let alone his blood results all pointing to end-stage CRF.
We are devastated - as all of you who have had cats PTS before can understand.
I know time is a great healer, but coming home, everything is still very raw right now.
Thanks everyone for all your comments and helpful posts since I joined back in August - you've all been of tremendous help and I can thank you enough.
Maybe we'll get to join him again in time. I'd like to think so.
-
:( I'm so sorry :hug: :hug:
RIP Billy xx
-
I've read this thread a little, but having no real input to give I didn't really do any posting. I just wanted to say I'm sorry for your loss. I'm sure Billy knew you loved him an awful lot. :care:
-
So very sorry to hear this :hug:
RIP Billy x :(
-
So sorry to hear this :hug: I know exactly what you are going through :hug:
RIP Billy, safe and sound at the Bridge by now, waiting for your Mum & Dad until they are ready to collect you xx
The Greatest Gift
I always knew this time would come,
From the very instant our eyes first met.
How I loved you then! How I love you now!
I made a promise then, and I will keep that promise now...
You will not suffer from a pain that will not heal;
You will not know the loss of a life remembered, now gone.
It is for me alone to make this decision,
The price for the bright joy and pure laughter
You brought me during the time we shared.
I am the only one who can decide when it is time.
When my hope dies, and my fear rides high,
Just when I need you most, I must let you go.
It is for you alone to tell me when you are ready
For without your guidance, I will not know
When to lay my grief, my guilt, my anger
My sorrow and my selfish heart aside
And give you this last gift, this greatest gift.
Your eyes will speak to mine, and I will know.
The pain of this moment is excruciating.
Tears stream down my face in a river of sorrow.
And my heart drowns in a pool of grief.
For you have spoken and I have listened,
And unlike other decisions I have made
This one brings no relief...no comfort...no peace.
For if there´s one thing you´ve taught me,
If there´s only one thing I´ve learned...
Unconditional love has a condition after all,
I must be willing to let you go, when you speak to me
I must be willing to help you go, if you cannot go alone.
And I must accept my pain so you can be free of yours.
Go easily now, go quickly now,
Do not linger here, it is time for you to leave.
Go find your strength, go find your youth.
Go find the ones who've gone before you.
You are free to leave me now, free to let your spirit soar
Rest easy now, your pain will soon be gone.
I pray I will find comfort in my memories...
In the dark and lonely days ahead.
I cannot say I will not miss you, I cannot say I will not cry.
For only my tears can heal my broken heart.
But, I promise you this; as long as I live,
You will live, alive in my mind, forever in my heart.
So I give you this last gift, all I have left to give,
And this will be my greatest gift...sending you away.
It is the measure of my unconditional love...
For only the greatest love can say,
"Good-bye, go find the bridge, we'll meet again,
Loving you has been the greatest gift of all."
Forever and Always... Until Rainbow bridge....
-
So very sorry and underestand how you are feeling as many do :hug: :hug: :hug:
RIP Billy play hard on the Bridge
-
So sorry to hear about Billy :hug:
-
Aw sweetie, I'm so very sorry :hug: :hug: :hug:
RIP little one, safe and sound on the Bridge, go find my Max, he'll show you round xxx
-
Sorry to hear about Billy. :( - it is a horrible feeling but you know he isn't suffering. :hug:
-
I am so sorry to hear this, but he was lucky to have had such wonderful owners, and ones who were strong enough to take his pain from him when he needed you too. RIP little one, we are all here for you if you need someone to talk to.
-
I am so sorry for your loss, BTC, and my thoughts are with you.
-
I'm so sorry to read this, he was obviously very much loved
-
I am so sorry. :(
RIP Sweetheart.x
-
So sorry BTC :(
RIP Billy xxx
:hug: