Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK

Cat Health & Behaviour => Health & Behaviour General => Topic started by: Dar on June 02, 2009, 01:22:32 AM

Title: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on June 02, 2009, 01:22:32 AM
Hello everyone my name is Darlene I am new to the forums. I would like to get a few other opinions on breeding my cat. I have a 2 years old CFA registered lilac point Siamese cat that I bought planning on breeding her, however she has grown up to smaller then the average Siamese do you think it is still safe to breed her?
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on June 02, 2009, 01:29:40 AM
 :welcome: to Purrs  ;D

I am sorry Dar, people on this site are not breeders and many work in rescue of the many cats that need homes. So I am afraid that we cannot give you advice on the breeding of your cat and can only suggest that you speak to the breeder that you bought her from or someone from the governing body for siamese.

Good luck  :hug:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on June 02, 2009, 02:55:39 AM
ok Thanks have a good one
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Millys Mum on June 02, 2009, 20:46:21 PM
If theres anything abnormal and not up to the breed requirements id say no
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Hippykitty on June 04, 2009, 07:13:17 AM
Sorry, you won't find this helpful: there are many pedigree cats in rescues desperately needing homes; I would urge you not to add to their numbers. Have your cat spayed, it'll be better for her health.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls on June 04, 2009, 08:50:26 AM
 :Crazy: Im saying nothing  :tired:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: blackcat on June 04, 2009, 09:27:08 AM
Hi Dar, welcome to the forum. Breeding is not a high priority here as the forum is devoted to cat rescue. That is not to say that there are not people who are members of the forum who breed. There are a few of them. The main reason you will receive a negative response to the idea is that many members see the end result of bad ownership. Many breeds of animal, siamese cats included are adopted by people who do not do the proper research into the characterisitics of the breed and their requirements. So an illinformed siamese purchaser might not realise just how penetrating a siamese voice can be at 3 in the morning or how annoying (to them) the cat's behaviour might become. So they dump it or put it on the free ads and our membership ends up with the cat after it has been through several cycles of hell. Since our primary concern is the wellbeing of the cat, not the owner, we tend to discourage people from breeding their animal since once the animal has left their control they are unable to guarantee it will live a long happy and healthy life. So better not to breed in the first place. Similarly the actual breeding process carries risks as does any pregnancy so the cat who is being used for this purpose is also being placed unnecessarily at risk as a result of the owner's decision.

I strongly recommend you engage in a level of self-examination that includes consideration of the fitness of your queen to breed (does she carry any latent abnormalities or disorders that might be passed to possible kittens?), her state of health. What your motives are for breeding her, whether you are going to be willing to take back any of her offspring that do not fit into their new home or whose owners later find they are unable to keep them, and matters of that sort. Also talk to the breed societies and to your vet.

Good luck with your decision-making process and please let us know what you decide!!
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: moira on June 04, 2009, 10:07:59 AM
 I am sure you are a nice person but please give careful consideration before you add to the cat population at this time. So many cats are dying every day or languish for months or even years in a pen waiting for a home, even pedigrees. Rescues are overwhelmed and often have no choice but to pts difficult to home cats such as the old, handicapped or FIV+.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on June 04, 2009, 18:57:53 PM
thanks for all the replies! First of all I would like to mention that I have proper homes set up already  for up to 7 kittens, 5 with family members and 2 with close friends so I know that the kittens will have good homes and yes if for any reason any of the kittens need to be returned I am willing to take care of them and pay the medical bills. I also took my cat o the vet to see if he thought it was safe for her to breed she is completely healthy just small so i was worried that she might have trouble giving birth, but the vet gave me the ok to go ahead. She was bred yesterday so hopfully I have some babies on the way.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Desley (booktigger) on June 05, 2009, 08:10:40 AM
Dar, do you actually have breeding rights for this cat? If not, you will be in breach of your contract.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: sheryl on June 05, 2009, 09:11:59 AM
I was going to post but would probably get banned from Purrs so will keep quiet apart from *** FFS ***
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls on June 05, 2009, 09:16:58 AM
What about homes for the many other kittens? You cant breed to an extent and keep them all safe  :-: So I take it your not selling them then, if they are going to family?

I hope this is a wind up  :tired:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Mark on June 05, 2009, 09:50:56 AM
I was going to post but would probably get banned from Purrs so will keep quiet apart from *** FFS ***
Likewise  :tired:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: blackcat on June 05, 2009, 10:30:59 AM
another warm welcome for a newbie I see - guys, if you can't say something nice, constructive and positive to newbies can I suggest you don't post at all ...
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls on June 05, 2009, 10:37:13 AM
Jo it is not your place to tell anyone not to post. I would say it has more to do with the topic than the poster, and its a sure way to get people riled every time  :shy:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Yvonne on June 05, 2009, 10:38:13 AM
Good morning Darlene and   :welcome:  to Purrs

Cannot offer assistance with the breeding of Siamese as I have never owned a Siamese in my life but I do admire the breed

Good luck
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: sheryl on June 05, 2009, 11:17:36 AM
I do not condemn breeders in any way as long as they are registered and know what they are doing !!! (I own 4 pedigrees myself and have the utmost respect for the breeders that my cats have come from) this poster is obviously not registered or experienced or they would not be seeking advice as the whether their cat is suitable for breeding.  This is how BSB start and IMHO Purrs should do its best to discourage BSB.  I have seen the reult of BSB first hand because the REGISTERED breeder that I deal with often rescues cats that have been bred by these "well" meaning people and has to pick up the pieces and believe me it is often not a pretty sight.

If people would rather I didnt post any more then that is fine by me!!!
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dawn F on June 05, 2009, 11:20:43 AM
couldn't agree more Sheryl - although I do wonder if this is a wind up???
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: blackcat on June 05, 2009, 11:24:04 AM
When someone is new to a forum it is not appropriate to treat them as rudely as has been done in some of the posts below. I do not apologise for castigating people for such offensive behaviour. If you truly want to educate and assist people to become more intelligent and responsible in the way they approach matters then the attitudes shown on this thread are not the way to do it. Darlene may or may not be a BSB, she came here to seek advice and assistance. Instead she received lectures and judgemental attitudes. Not a good start in terms of gaining her understanding of the issues of concern to this forum. It is regrettable that she has chosen to act so precipitately however she has also shown that she has sought advice from professionals such as her vet - something that would suggest she is far from the negligent person some here have chosen to cast her as. I suggest that we are hear to educate, not to judge or to accuse. If that causes offence, then it is possible that the people who are offended feel that I have struck a little too close to the bone so they might be well advised not to respond until they have considered more carefully how appropriate their remarks were in light of Darlene's newness to the forum
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Gillian Harvey on June 05, 2009, 12:07:33 PM
I do not condemn breeders in any way as long as they are registered and know what they are doing !!!

this poster is obviously not registered or experienced or they would not be seeking advice as the whether their cat is suitable for breeding.  This is how BSB start

If you look at Dar's first post - she brought her cat with the intention of breeding, so she may well be registered, you have no right to assume that she is not. If she was a BSB, no doubt she would have bred her cat before now (note - the cat is 2 yrs old) and without bothering to seek advice about whether she is suitable for breeding or not. With regard to knowing what she's doing - well, all breeders have to start somewhere don't they? She sought advice here, and she sought advice from her vet.

Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls on June 05, 2009, 13:08:43 PM
Does it really matter now? the cat has been bred  :tired:

Although I dont think any advice was listened to as it was bred the very next day.

Maybe the little "bragging" sign on the thread title is whats riled people  :shy:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on June 05, 2009, 17:00:05 PM
well everyone it does seem that I have posted a sensitive topic I am aware there are plenty of cats without homes and I myself have taken in strays and found them new homes. No I will not be selling the kittens and I plan to have her spayed once they are born. Sorry if this upsets anyone but please believe me when I say I have the will and funds to make sure that these kittens will be well taken care.

P.S ALL of the kittens will be spayed or neutered.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls on June 05, 2009, 18:12:19 PM
Sorry I have been of no use so far but you can obviously see its a subject that many people dont and wont agree on  :shy:

Can I ask...you say once she has the kittens she will be getting spayed, why did you not choose to do this in the first place?
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Yvonne on June 05, 2009, 18:15:52 PM
Darlene - thank you for updating

If you have some pictures it would be lovely to see your little girl
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on June 05, 2009, 18:33:49 PM
I chose not to spay her in the first place because as I'm sure you are aware purebred registered cats are not cheap, once I had decided to get one I had several request to breed her for a litter. I agreed with my family that once she was old enough and mature enough to handle a litter  I would breed so that they to could have a kitten. I don't have any interest in breeding her again after this litter so I will get her spayed.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Millys Mum on June 05, 2009, 19:57:08 PM
Its a classic can of worms Dar, people here are emotionally damaged from the stress of dealing with excess cats/kittens from people breeding peds and moggies, so it always causes upset  :(
I think the upset should be put towards the original registered breeder who has sold an active queen to someone who wasnt ever planning on starting a line of siamese just provide for family members  :tired:
There should be requirements under gccf etc that registered breeders have to take care where they sell active cats too
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Stuart on June 05, 2009, 20:31:35 PM
well everyone it does seem that I have posted a sensitive topic I am aware there are plenty of cats without homes and I myself have taken in strays and found them new homes. No I will not be selling the kittens and I plan to have her spayed once they are born. Sorry if this upsets anyone but please believe me when I say I have the will and funds to make sure that these kittens will be well taken care.

P.S ALL of the kittens will be spayed or neutered.

Very sensitive  :scared:

Was going to ask, was this first litter just a one off ??
and this reply says it all  :)

like it has been mentioned, Purrs is a charity Forum mainly Helping in and Dealing with the poor waifs and strays that have been dumped, abandoned
neglected and worse still cruelty cases  :'(

A lot of these rescues who carry out this very hard and demanding sometimes very emotional work are Very Passionate about thier job  :Luv:
So I'm sure You can Understand why some of the reply's for your Post are slightly negative  :(

I'm so glad that this will be a One off, and that you already have Good homes lined up for them  :)

obtw  :welcome: to Purrs  :evillaugh:

Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls on June 05, 2009, 22:32:31 PM
I chose not to spay her in the first place because as I'm sure you are aware purebred registered cats are not cheap, once I had decided to get one I had several request to breed her for a litter. I agreed with my family that once she was old enough and mature enough to handle a litter  I would breed so that they to could have a kitten. I don't have any interest in breeding her again after this litter so I will get her spayed.

Am I not getting something here  :-: What does the cost of the cat have to do with her breeding, if not breeding for sale  :-:

Personally I wouldn't let my family talk me into breeding my cat, its my responsibility to look after her wellbeing.

How can you be sure that nobody will breed from the kittens? Once something is given away you have no right of say anymore.

Can I ask which male was she mated with, who has the male.

Lots of Q's I know but the mind boggles  :shy:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on June 06, 2009, 00:13:31 AM
I agree with bc and I am totally fed up of all those anti pedigree types who are trying to control Purrs.

Dar has been very gracious in answering all your questions so let this subject now drop, stop pursuing cc and let people enjoy their cats.

Gill
Admin Purrs
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Jasmine on June 06, 2009, 01:20:22 AM
Perhaps Tan would like to consider some board guidelines on this subject, otherwise this argument and unpleasantness is going to crop up time and time again.

Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on June 06, 2009, 01:44:33 AM
We have been considering this Jasmine but quite honestly the guidlines for Purrs already state that personal attacks should not be made on other members of Purrs.

We are losing members now because of these attacks on some who join who have pedigrees. This site is supposed to be for all cats and why should those with pedigrees be afraid to post and feel they have to leave? We are also losing longer term members who feel uncomfortable about what is happening on Purrs and do not consider that they have the same right to speak about their cats as others.

BC has expressed very well in her two posts the position and yet she has been attacked for  her posts which were written most correctly.

If someone doesnt  like a subject, then stay off it as most others on Purrs do.....there are posts that I would never read or post on but it seems that some are just seeking attention by making trouble.  Purrs does not need you!

We are here to help where we can when people come and ask questions, attacking them stilts the education process as bc has said...its not just what you say but the agressive way that you say it.

Gill
Purrs Admin
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Philip on June 06, 2009, 02:15:20 AM
As a probationary Ragdoll breeder myself I found myself in this same predicament.

I posted on here to get advice and got totally slated.

Before I started to post on here about breeding from my queen, I had seeked advice from my vet, got full support from my breeder and studied about the breed for a long time attending seminars and self study. Its not something you should get into lightly.

I chose to breed more for the love and progression of the ragdoll breed and not for money.

If you do things properly (vaccinations, worming, food costs, being there constantly (when the cats primagravida is due). There isn't much money to be made.

At the same time, It takes a hell of a lot out of a breeding queen to have a litter and provide milk. Also you have to be prepared to pay for an emergency Cesarean section if the queen struggles to give birth. Then there are the sleepless nights hand rearing the kittens if the queen rejects them and heartache if any kittens are deformed and don't make it. The stud and queen also need to be checked for FIV/FELV and coronovirus before mating.

Registered breeders are not always good breeders and I have met at least 4 registered ragdoll breeders who allow their queens to have multiple litters in a single year. These breeders also keep their queens and stud cats couped up in small runs with minimal human interaction. Being registered with the GCCF or TICA doesn't make anyone a good breeder if they haven't got the passion or expertise. There are many breeders who are not registered, but bestow kittens with love and good socialisation and ensure they go to decent homes.

This is always going to be a sensitive subject sadly.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls on June 06, 2009, 11:25:12 AM
Sorry I have been of no use so far but you can obviously see its a subject that many people dont and wont agree on  :shy:

Gill I am not personially attacking anyone, just mearly trying to understand why people choose to breed...as I have not choosen to breed any of my cats. I would like to be able to understand both sides--then maybe I can become a little more informed.

I have nothing about Pedigree cats, if one came to me as a stray I would not ignore it because it was a Ped- its a cat at the end of the day!

I thought this was a place of learning, wether mog or ped, Im just trying to understand  :shy:

I appologise Dar if you feel I have attacked you in any way, that was not my intention  :shy:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls on June 06, 2009, 11:28:32 AM
To be honest I feel the people who say they are going to breed their moggies are attacked more.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Tan on June 06, 2009, 13:02:06 PM
Hi All  :hug:

As Gill says we are in the middle of considering an extra note in our guidelines about this subject. It is one of those emotional and sensitive ones due to the fact we are a site firstly in support of Cat rescue and helping them to help the needy cats. Secondly, we are (and all the staff will try to keep it) a friendly place to come and be part of a cat lovers community, where any cat lover/slave can come for valuable advice and chat to like minded friends about the furries in our lives.  This is important as it is our way to build a community to help the needy cats and a friendly forum is important as without it we do not have the members joining in our events to fundraise and help the rescues (our main goal).

Purrs will not discriminate between members who have Ped cats or moggies and i believe threads on this nature are getting a little out of hand and having a ped cat is getting rolled up in with the subject of actual breeding and breeders which should not the be case.   There are many rescue cats that are Pedigrees and moggies and ALL cats and all genuine cat loving slaves are welcome no matter how their cats have come to be part of a members loved family. 

Members who have been with us or Catchat for a while do know we are here to support cat rescue and as a result do understand it can be a sensitive subject but new members do not have that knowledge with us as yet.  If we as a rescue community are seen to respond to posts and to give friendly advice in a calm. polite but informed manner to new members, it's more likely to have the desired effect than if they are met with hostility.  It is the reason we have this in our guide from the start of Purrs :-

Quote
As in all forums, it is very easy to take the written word in the wrong context and meaning. The use of smilies do help to show your emotions in your text. We all have our own strong opinions and personalities can clash or it would not be a real world but please be polite and hold controlled discussions.   

Please bear in mind that some people may come on the site not knowing much about cats and genuinely seeking advice.
Please be fair to any topics you may not agree with. Ie if a new poster comes on posting about de-clawing, etc., please be polite but objective as the poster may be unaware that this is very very cruel and offensive to us. However, if there is a poster deliberately upsetting members, please report this to a Moderator or Admin straight away.

If we are to add a little on this subject to our guide (which also is in our registration agreement before you become a member) it will  hopefully help new members be aware we are in support of cat rescue and the subject of active breeding will be one of our sensitive ones.  We do not promote breeders or allow breeder advertising.  We would not want to stop any cat owners including responsible, caring breeders joining for friendly advice from our huge wealth of knowledge for the best interest of their cat/s care and health. 

Personal "attacks" of any kind should not be on threads and any problems or things you are not happy with are much better being reported to the staff  who can help to the best we can with a mind of fairness for all the members. 

For me and i hope for all of us, we are a team of caring cat owners, helping other cat owners, helping the cat rescues and having the members and the staff as a group together to do this.   
 :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Tan on June 06, 2009, 13:26:58 PM
PS   ;)

We should be deleting all the personal posts on this thread but i will leave the thread as is for the sole purpose that people can see what has upset and what will not be accepted in future threads. We certainly are not saying you can't have your say or opinion on any subject at all, I do like a good discussion myself  ;D but Polite, controlled, discussions and advice is the very best way to help any member seeking advice, they are much more likely to listen and respect what advice we can give in the best interest of their cat.   :)

Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Angiew on June 06, 2009, 13:46:10 PM
I like  a good punch up now and again - gets the fur flying! :duel:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Bazsmum on June 06, 2009, 13:49:12 PM
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb316/Ruth_davey100/popcorn.gif)
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Bazsmum on June 06, 2009, 13:51:13 PM
All good info Tanni...Thanks!  ;)

Now on another rather important subject could you please enlighten?  :sneaky:  http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php/topic,25305.0.html
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Liz on June 06, 2009, 15:14:16 PM
I have more cats than some folks currently at 42 living inside - 28 with privilages the rest on the inside and about a dozen or so ferals outside= Domestic moggies, lots of feral moggies and my rescue ragdoll Minmin complete with papers also 2 pedigree dogs both ISDS registered and a farm collie puppy

The papers make no difference - I homecheck for both dog and cat rescues and have 2 pedigree dogs as I wouldn't home a rescue dog to me due to our fennces on the 5 acres, the puppy was a Christmas present from Robin as I wanted a red collie and we couldn't get one from Sky's breeder

I will say that the rescue side is hard - as we know to our cost Gem had 4 kittens - 3 died she died 4 months after we rescued her from FIP left us with her soul kitten a Corona carrier this rescue cost well in to 4 figures and left a gaping hole in our hearts

We currently are trapping and neutering the latest round of dumped cats about 12 in total - light nights are proving to be a god send!

As long as all the animals concerned will go to good homes with folks who will spey/neuter then all and good but I hope that they are not just a passing fad - cats live an awful long time and can be expensive when it is least expected - our average vets bill per month for the cats for boosters and Program injections in nearly £500 this excludes the dogs who all have the same and worming is £150.00 a quarter thats for normal run of the mill stuff - other health issues are faced - our vets bill for May was £1000 - this included the loss of our darling Sailor, the amputation of a third of Peanuts tail, Phoenix getting covered in oil and being washed and brushed out under anasthetic as he has a heart murner

Our lot eat 9 tins and 3 kgs of food every day to so having them is a commitment not a fancy

Good luck and we will need to see photo's
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Susanne (urbantigers) on June 06, 2009, 20:19:41 PM
Hi Dar, welcome to the forum. Breeding is not a high priority here as the forum is devoted to cat rescue. That is not to say that there are not people who are members of the forum who breed. There are a few of them. The main reason you will receive a negative response to the idea is that many members see the end result of bad ownership. Many breeds of animal, siamese cats included are adopted by people who do not do the proper research into the characterisitics of the breed and their requirements. So an illinformed siamese purchaser might not realise just how penetrating a siamese voice can be at 3 in the morning or how annoying (to them) the cat's behaviour might become. So they dump it or put it on the free ads and our membership ends up with the cat after it has been through several cycles of hell. Since our primary concern is the wellbeing of the cat, not the owner, we tend to discourage people from breeding their animal since once the animal has left their control they are unable to guarantee it will live a long happy and healthy life. So better not to breed in the first place. Similarly the actual breeding process carries risks as does any pregnancy so the cat who is being used for this purpose is also being placed unnecessarily at risk as a result of the owner's decision.

I strongly recommend you engage in a level of self-examination that includes consideration of the fitness of your queen to breed (does she carry any latent abnormalities or disorders that might be passed to possible kittens?), her state of health. What your motives are for breeding her, whether you are going to be willing to take back any of her offspring that do not fit into their new home or whose owners later find they are unable to keep them, and matters of that sort. Also talk to the breed societies and to your vet.

Good luck with your decision-making process and please let us know what you decide!!

Very well put and I concur with your entire post  ;D

Can everyone please remember 2 points (and to pretty much re-iterate what Tan said)

1)  Not everyone who joins Purrs realises immediately that Purrs is primarily a cat rescue site.  It is easy to stumble upon the site when searching for information.  Therefore, we should give everyone the benefit of the doubt initially and seek to enlighten new posters as to the main purpose of Purrs without being rude.

2)  Everyone is entitiled to express an opinion.  But with that right comes the responsibility to choose one's words carefully.  Please make sure you attack the argument and not the poster.  This is particularly pertinant when answering posts by new posters.  It is possible to disagree with someone whilst remaining polite, and you are much more likely to win someone over to your argument if you seek to inform and educate rather than criticise.  Breeding is one of those topics that many are passionate about and see as incompatable with cat rescue, but that sometimes prompts people to post in haste.  When you see a post that inflames you in any way, please take a step back, go and make a cuppa or whatever, and then come back later to post when you are less agitated.  I know I've posted myself before under such circumstances when I know I would have been better holding off and waiting until I was a bit calmer.  Overt criticism just drives people away and then we lose the opportunity to educate.  So, ultimately, the cats lose out.



Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on June 06, 2009, 21:26:20 PM
I would like to mention that I did think this forum was for anything cat related, which is why I posted under the "all things cat" folder. I was met with some hostility by some but not by all I got a few private messages that very helpful. Overall ladies and gentlemen I do understand why people are upset about the whole "breeding" topic and I know that you all have the best interest of the cats at heart. Please believe me when I say I actaully am a responsible pet owner and that my cat and her kittens will be well taken care of. If anyone is interested in knowing how the pregnacy goes and the kittens when they are born let me know and I will keep ya posted.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: blackcat on June 06, 2009, 21:40:34 PM
Dar, of course we would love to have regular updates on her progress. I for one am always excited about the prospect of new babies, especially when they are being born into a home where they will be loved and well cared for ... :hug:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Philip on June 06, 2009, 21:43:11 PM
It is a magical moment when the kittens are born.

Best of luck and hope it all goes well.

Now having bred myself if you want to ask any questions please pm me.

Take care.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on June 07, 2009, 00:19:13 AM
I would love to see pictures and am interested in the colours of points and stuff  ;D
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on June 07, 2009, 00:40:16 AM
These are my 2 girls. These are pretty old pictures sorry I don't have any recent ones, The lilac point kitten is the one hopfully having babies she is 2 years old now her name is Mao pronounce "mow". The other seal point name is TaoLi, she is 5 years old and because I know someone is going to ask yes she is spayed and no she has never had kittens   :Luv:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on June 07, 2009, 00:43:26 AM
they are gorgeous  ;D

i have 2 birmans , one seal point and the other a very light....i think......blue point.....so lilac points interest me  ;D
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on June 07, 2009, 00:51:22 AM
The lilac point was bred with a fairly dark Blue point, His parents however were a Seal and a flame point so the kittens really could come out any point. I guess I will just have to wait and see.  :briggin:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on June 07, 2009, 00:53:27 AM
yes it could be interseting lol

my two have blue or seal throught their lines.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Bazsmum on June 07, 2009, 04:40:21 AM
Gorgeous piccies of gorgeous cats!  :Luv2:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: blackcat on June 07, 2009, 07:10:09 AM
ooo you might get torti points with that sort of genetic combination - how exciting ;D She is a lovely little girl - and so too is TaoLi. Mao has a lovely face, and good conformation - she should be a star mum, I feel the blues always make the best mums because of their commonsense attitude to life ... Seals can be a bit flighty :naughty:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Leanne on June 07, 2009, 10:38:43 AM
Gorgeous cats  :Luv:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Topsy Turvey on June 07, 2009, 10:47:08 AM
Hi and  :welcome: to Purrs.

Your kitties are just lovely.  Hope everything goes well throughout the pregnancy and would love to see pics of the kittens once they are born.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: sallyagdm on June 07, 2009, 20:00:29 PM
 :welcome:

They are georgeous cats
 :Luv2: :Luv2: :Luv2:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Gillian Harvey on June 07, 2009, 20:05:52 PM
Gorgeous puss cats!  :Luv: I have a 'thing' about colourpoints too - except mine are all long haired fluffs - I always fancied one of each possible colourpoint, but I think thats pushing it - even for me! LOL!  :evillaugh:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on June 07, 2009, 20:06:16 PM
Franta says who you calling flighty bc....he says he will come and bite you  :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Gail Bengal Slave on June 07, 2009, 20:07:11 PM
You girls are just  :Luv: :Luv: :Luv: :Luv:. Mao is stunning (they both are)

I have two male bengals, minus their boy bits  :innocent: and a DSH tortie girl ( she is 7 and was spayed aged 5 months)
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on June 07, 2009, 20:11:13 PM
Thanks for all the compliments! I will pass the love on to girls  :Luv:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Debsymiller (Rufus' mum) on June 07, 2009, 21:24:14 PM
What beautiful girls  :Luv:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: blackcat on June 07, 2009, 21:37:33 PM
Franta says who you calling flighty bc....he says he will come and bite you  :rofl: :rofl:

I rest my case  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Sabrina (Auferstehen) on June 10, 2009, 06:42:08 AM
What lovely cats!

We rescued our burmese from a breeder (Lirael had cat flu and the breeder was scared it would spread...) and I had family begging me to breed her just once, which I told them no... she's a sweetheart but she does have a few minor behaviour issues ;)

Hope the birth of the kittens goes well and please remember pictures. I'd be on pins and needles the whole time and would end up with a full head of grey hair with the amount of worry.

 ;)

Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Michelle (furbabystar) on June 10, 2009, 14:54:44 PM
OMG i have just died and gone to Heaven  :Luv: :Luv:

I soooooo want a siamese, I'm half way there with a Tonkenese  :evillaugh:
But i WILL have a siamese one day (ok shoot me know all the pedigree haters hehe)
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Mark on June 10, 2009, 15:05:42 PM
(ok shoot me know all the pedigree haters hehe)

As long as it's a rescue, that's fine.  :)
You are only down the road to Brigid anyway?  :shify:

PS - Please don't perpetuate the MYTH that any of us hate pedigree cats  :evillaugh:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Mollyrock on June 10, 2009, 15:37:03 PM
Hi Dar, your cats are beautiful  ;D welcome aboard.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Hippykitty on June 11, 2009, 17:36:21 PM
Oh dear, another amateur breeder creating unwanted cats. I hope your family and friends still want the kittens when they're born, and then when they grow into yowling, active Siamese who climb the curtains.

Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on June 11, 2009, 17:38:33 PM
....... they are not unwanted.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Topsy Turvey on June 11, 2009, 17:40:17 PM
 :hug: :hug: Dar.

We know that you have found them good homes once they are born x
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on June 11, 2009, 17:43:50 PM
Thanks! at least someone believes me  :wow: also for anyone interested If you call up the humane society they will spay/neuter any cat of age and give there shots for only $25 so there is know reason that the kittens can't be spayed when they are old enough, for that price I would pay for it myself.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: JackSpratt on June 11, 2009, 17:50:24 PM
....for that price I would pay for it myself.

Great to hear, Dar. :)
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Hippykitty on June 11, 2009, 17:56:54 PM
Hopefully you will do this as soon as the kittens are weaned.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: JackSpratt on June 11, 2009, 17:58:46 PM
HK, I do genuinely understand your strong reaction on this thread. But Dar has already established she's lined up safe home environments and is prepared to pay for spays or neuters for these cats.

Will Mum cat be spayed after this litter too, Dar? Just wondering.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on June 11, 2009, 18:05:02 PM
yes she will this is a one time deal, I wouldn't consider myself a "breeder" amateur or otherwise. It's just one litter of kittens for my family so they don't have to buy from a breeder. I know everyone on here is thinking if they want a Siamese why not adopt one? Well I don't how things work there in the UK but here in Canada they are few and far between I'm not saying there not out there but the ones that are seem to have major behaviour issues that my family isn't willing to take on.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on June 11, 2009, 18:09:21 PM
HK the kittens must be 6 months or older before they will do them and I'm sure they will be done right away, ever heard a Siamese in heat lol ? my family has and they are willing to live with it they have already said there kittens will be done before they can go into heat even once.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: JackSpratt on June 11, 2009, 18:12:23 PM
Thanks for confirming all that Dar - I would think it makes a few people on here feel a little better. It may seem an over-reaction, but the UK has an appalling amount of "unwanted" cats and kittens; it's heartbreaking. Maybe Canada isn't quite as bad.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on June 11, 2009, 18:16:07 PM
unfortunately it is, there are tones of cats in shelters waiting for homes many are put to sleep but even worse many are sent off for animal testing  >:( It really is sad. Fortunately for pedigree cats people tend to adopt them first, not so fortanate for the others  :(
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Hippykitty on June 11, 2009, 18:19:29 PM
I'm not having a go, but what sort of behaviour issues? Siamese are a very temperamental, noisy, active breed. They are very demanding but also loving. Are these the behaviour issues your family are concerned about?

Quote
Character and Temperament

The Siamese are an extremely social type of cats. They want to be with you every minute and will expect you to share your food, your bed, your life with them, and will follow you from room to room. They often will engage themselves in crazy antics to get the attention of their people, and often attach themselves to one human in a household. Siamese are immensely loyal to their chosen human and they may not tolerate rivals for their affection. Siamese are known to be excellent with children as they somehow sense the innocence of a child and will tolerate their prodding and pulling as the child learns proper handling. They will comfort you when you are sad or sick. Because of their terrific personality and affectionate nature, the Siamese have a large following.

The Siamese cannot be left alone for long periods of time. They need companionship whether that is from their owner, another cat or even a dog. They love company, so two Siamese cats will keep themselves content when you are gone.

The voice is one of the traits the Siamese cats are known for. They are outgoing extrovert and can be extremely noisy when they really want to make a point.

They are also known to be dog-like, and tend to settle best with cats of their own type such as Burmese or Orientals but being territorial tend to bully less domineering breeds such as the longhairs.

The Siamese cats are highly intelligent and need to be kept amused. Toys and scratching posts should be provided for their amusement and they can be easily trained to use a cat scratcher.

From: http://www.cozycatfurniture.com/cat_newsletters/catnewsletter14.html

JackSpratt misinterpreted my comment. I meant that I hoped you'd get the mother spayed after the kittens are weaned. I'm fully aware of the general age at which cats are spayed/neutered, although there is an ongoing debate about the advantage of early neutering. I prefer at around 4 mths. Siamese are also notorious for early heats.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on June 11, 2009, 18:24:45 PM
Spraying is a big problem for most in shelters. Also because the cats have been through god knows what they tend to be very skittish and growl and bite when scared. Which can be dealt with I know but to put a cat like that in a family with Small kids would just be unkind.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Michelle (furbabystar) on June 11, 2009, 18:36:48 PM
(ok shoot me know all the pedigree haters hehe)

As long as it's a rescue, that's fine.  :)
You are only down the road to Brigid anyway?  :shify:

PS - Please don't perpetuate the MYTH that any of us hate pedigree cats  :evillaugh:

I was only playing Mark ...... ;)

Yeah Siamese rescue is local to Me
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on June 11, 2009, 18:38:29 PM
oh i c LOL
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Rosella moggy on June 11, 2009, 19:54:04 PM
.....and then when they grow into yowling, active Siamese who climb the curtains.

I thought ALL cats did that?  Can't understand how I don't have photos of our kitties hanging from me ripped to smithereens curtain lining  :shocked:. I aim and shoot (the camera  ;) ) but they just always drop off just before the flash goes  :doh:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on June 11, 2009, 19:58:03 PM
lol ya my cats both did that when they were kittens. I used to spray them with the water bottle it took me forever to get them to stop, they even starting liking the water LOL
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: blackcat on June 11, 2009, 21:12:08 PM
HK Dar has already confirmed that the queen will be spayed following the birth of the kittens. Please read the entire thread before asking any more questions - she has been given quite a hard time already and it really is not fair to her.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: dabs on June 11, 2009, 21:35:46 PM
I am sorry guys but I cannot believe the hard time that Dar has been given over this. Trust me I have bit my  :P over some comments.

She has sought advice, made it quite clear that it will be for one litter only and the queen will be spayed. The kittens are going to family and Dar strikes me as perfectly sensible in that she will follow up spaying etc when the babies are of age. The queen is 2 years old so is not a kitten herself that is being turned out onto the streets to have litter after litter as happens in this country with our moggies.

I would have thought that after 2 years living with a cat of that breed she would have known about traits etc. Personally they are not my cup of tea, if one came in needing help then help from me the cat would get, but it would only be till the mite was rehomed. But that is my preference and decision.

She may be a "Novice" but do we not all have to start somewhere, were will it stop? Novice cat owners, Novice cat rescuers/rehomers etc, do they deserve the same kind of vitreol that has been shown Dar?

I used to breed Turkish Vans and yes, I too was a novice when I started out, funny that eh, a beginner who is a novice?  :innocent:

I no longer breed but devote my time and my home to helping cats of all shapes and sizes regardless, Dar should be commended for asking not comdenned.

I think we ought to concentrate on helping people not judging them. Save your venom for those who deserve it like BSB's.

Dar. good luck for you, I hope it goes well and please do not let some people short sightedness put you off from asking advice on here, we are not all that bad.

Anyway off my soap box, getting dizzy and I shall be hiding behind the settee awaiting the slings and arrows!  :naughty:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Sam (Fussy_Furball) on June 11, 2009, 22:49:28 PM
Hi Dar,

 :welcome: to Purs.  Your girls are absolutely stunning.  My parents are currently looking to get a couple of siamese girls as they recently lost their tonkinese girl (aged 16 years).  My parents have alwas had foreigns in the house and they are desparately missing having a "talker" ... it's the first time in 42 years that there hasn't been a foreign living with them. 

At the moment they are in conversation with a cople of breeders who breed "old style" siameses .... my parents aren't keen on the new super pointy look that seems to be so popular nowadays and 0refer the more rounded face shape.  I notice both your girls are more "rounded" .... is that the typical look in Canada.

Hope everything goes well with pregnancy and look forward to seeing the little ones when they arrive.

All the best

Sam, Foxy, Zephyr and Rossi xxxx
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: JackSpratt on June 11, 2009, 22:58:02 PM
I didn't notice the pictures - gorgeous girls! :)
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Rosella moggy on June 11, 2009, 23:24:38 PM
Nor did I JS.  I'm not a fan of Siamese but, cor blimey Dar, they're gorgeous  :Luv2: :Luv2: :Luv2:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Kay and Penny on June 11, 2009, 23:31:15 PM
I much prefer the old-fashioned faces too - those lovely triangular faces - I shall never understand why the breeders wanted to change them

I had a red-point Siamese for 14 years, and couldn't have asked for a more loyal, loving, companion
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on June 11, 2009, 23:46:17 PM
ya can get either kind of Siamese cats here the more rounded ones are referred to as apple heads and the more pointy ones are referred to as traditional Siamese. mine are both appleheads :D
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on June 11, 2009, 23:57:15 PM
 Dabs what makes you think I don't know about the breeds traits? Just wondering. "I would have thought that after 2 years living with a cat of that breed she would have known about traits etc." Before this whole thing got blown way out of proportion all I wanted to know was if it was safe to breed my cat being as she is smaller then average I took her to the vet and got her a check up before she was bred, he gave me the ok to go ahead.

P.S Thanks  for standing up for me I have been given quite a hard time over this  :Luv:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Canterbury_cats (Sharon) on June 12, 2009, 08:20:09 AM
I just want to comment here. .I have had loads of siamese in my life more often siblings...some where returner siamese that had a few issues and some where not.. But everyone makes them out as cats that will go up and down your curtains and yowl beyond belief... Well... i dont think i have had any of my siamese with those traits. Certaintly they yowl and want one to one attention and maybe i have been lucky... But they are a breed of cat i adore and despite being invovled in CP rescue i would still go out and find myself a rescue siamese in the future.. I have taken on moggies and would not treat them any different... But the devotion of their breed time, esp the males and the dog like trait is something that i love... I sit here now with Bella my tabby point siamese who is a lovely petite girl.. she is head butting my hand while i type and wants a good stroke. She is an old girl now but still active and playful and still very close to her brother Leo who is the cat i am holding in my profile picture... I consider myself an experienced siamese owner and perhaps i have just been lucky in my past cats that i look back on fondly... My jump on shoulder Casper (who literally just used to take on leap while you were standing still and jump on you)... Yoyo an expert pigeon catcher, Jason a loyal and devoted Seal point boy living to 19 yrs of age... Betsy a havanna who loved the outdoor like and was a healthy as  they come until her last few days. Lizzy a very independant girl who made it to 10yrs but loved walking with me in the woods. 

All have a very special place in my heart and none had a hint of any bad siamese traits... And each of them so individual its been a pleasure to spend part of my life with such devoted cats...

Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls on June 12, 2009, 11:07:19 AM
I just hope things turn out better for you than they did for me.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Sam (Fussy_Furball) on June 12, 2009, 12:55:30 PM
I just want to comment here. .I have had loads of siamese in my life more often siblings...some where returner siamese that had a few issues and some where not.. But everyone makes them out as cats that will go up and down your curtains and yowl beyond belief... Well... i dont think i have had any of my siamese with those traits. Certaintly they yowl and want one to one attention and maybe i have been lucky... But they are a breed of cat i adore and despite being invovled in CP rescue i would still go out and find myself a rescue siamese in the future.. I have taken on moggies and would not treat them any different... But the devotion of their breed time, esp the males and the dog like trait is something that i love... I sit here now with Bella my tabby point siamese who is a lovely petite girl.. she is head butting my hand while i type and wants a good stroke. She is an old girl now but still active and playful and still very close to her brother Leo who is the cat i am holding in my profile picture... I consider myself an experienced siamese owner and perhaps i have just been lucky in my past cats that i look back on fondly... My jump on shoulder Casper (who literally just used to take on leap while you were standing still and jump on you)... Yoyo an expert pigeon catcher, Jason a loyal and devoted Seal point boy living to 19 yrs of age... Betsy a havanna who loved the outdoor like and was a healthy as  they come until her last few days. Lizzy a very independant girl who made it to 10yrs but loved walking with me in the woods. 

All have a very special place in my heart and none had a hint of any bad siamese traits... And each of them so individual its been a pleasure to spend part of my life with such devoted cats...



I agree Sharon.  I think Siamese's have a bit of bad press as being noisy and naughty (maybe this is because the only time most people have much to do with them is when they are at the vets .... a time when they are most definitely the loudest in the wating room  :rofl:).  I have the same thing with my Abysinnians .... whenever we go to the vet you can see the look of horror on peoples faces as Zephyr YOWLS at the top of his voice like a screaming baby.  No-one believes me when I say he doesn't make that noise all the time.

My parents have always had Siameses and they have never had any issues with any of them.  Or maybe it's because we have accepted that the things some people refer to as "issues" or "naughty behaviour" are in actual fact endearing qualities.  We like cats that talk, are intelligent, that sometimes bring home a full grown rabbit (Rajah was an ace rabbit catcher), can leap on a shoulder from a standing start and can open any kitchen cupboard to get at the "treats" inside!  :rofl:

Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Tan on June 12, 2009, 13:24:39 PM
My two bridge lads Bow and Arnie are  (I say "are" cause they are always with me in my heart  :Luv: ) Burmese another oriental breed similar to Siamese.

Yes they def are vocal and naughty  :naughty: :evillaugh: but that it one of the things i adored about them.    :evillaugh: What a conversation you can have!! and the cheeky personalities are great. Cheeky, naughty boys is what i love and i have been so privileged to have fantastic personalities with all my lads.   Gizmo  (a moggie) used to be called Mr Spitty as he was the 1st cat i adopted that made a spit sound at you if he didn't want attention!! :evillaugh:
I remember Vicky Halls saying that she helps more families with Oriental breeds than any other breed or moggie and the cat most likely to be boss in the neighbourhood if allowed out  is an orientail!! 

Dar your little ones are stunning  :Luv:

Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: dabs on June 12, 2009, 19:14:57 PM
Dabs what makes you think I don't know about the breeds traits? Just wondering. "I would have thought that after 2 years living with a cat of that breed she would have known about traits etc." Before this whole thing got blown way out of proportion all I wanted to know was if it was safe to breed my cat being as she is smaller then average I took her to the vet and got her a check up before she was bred, he gave me the ok to go ahead.

P.S Thanks  for standing up for me I have been given quite a hard time over this  :Luv:

Shall I rephrase?  ;)

Because there has been so much attention paid to the breed traits as being "naughty" and "Curtain Climbers" the comment was meant along the lines of after having been the owner of the breed for 2 years you would be well aware of their traits and so can therefore advise any prospective owners accordingly. Not that you do not know about the breed.  :)

I have a tonk that I rescued a couple of months ago, she is 15 and a real chatterbox, usually grumbles at me when I want to sit in her favourite chair or tea is late. Never really a fan of the oriental breeds, however I am taken with her and I rescued her from a threatened one way trip to the vets.

I am sure that she can live out what time she has left here, grumbling away to her hearts content.  :Luv2:

You have done the right thing by letting the vet check her over first, it is always recommended. Have you found a stud yet?
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on June 12, 2009, 19:54:49 PM
oh i c sorry for the misinterpretation. Yes I found a stud, she has already been bred with a blue point male now I play the waiting game to see if she is pregnant. and yes my seal point grumbles at me when I move her from her favorite chair by the fire place she not nasty of anything she just wants to make sure you know she not happy that you are moving her lol.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Hippykitty on June 26, 2009, 07:33:14 AM
As this is a done deal and kittens are probably on their way, it's a waste of time trying to 'talk' you out of it. The reason some of us have tried to do this is that we see the end result of someone thinking that they'll allow their cat to have "just one litter".

As a final word, I hope you had the mother FLV and FIV tested before sending her to a stud who is also negative for both.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 04, 2009, 02:31:04 AM
Hello everyone it's been a while since I've posted on here but  I wanted to let those of you who are interested know that my cat Mao did in fact get pregnant when we bred her. The pregnancy is going very well aside from a small eye infection which was easily taken care of without to much hassle. the vet says she is doing great and her babies are due any day. I will post pics once they arrive.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: blackcat on August 04, 2009, 07:18:45 AM
Great news Dar  :wow: when is she due?
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 04, 2009, 07:22:09 AM
she is due on Aug 6th or 7th  :)
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on August 04, 2009, 21:56:48 PM
My goodness thats any day now and yessssss we will need pictures  ;D
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Debsymiller (Rufus' mum) on August 04, 2009, 21:58:10 PM
Looking forward to piccies. Hoping everything goes well with the birth x
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: blackcat on August 05, 2009, 05:59:13 AM
Will be counting down the hours - how exciting!! I do adore new wee kittens!! :Luv2:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 06, 2009, 23:28:05 PM
Hi everyone I was just wondering Mao has been Meowing over and over not continuously  but a lot could this been the first sign of labour? She has no other signs.
Thanks
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on August 06, 2009, 23:35:26 PM
sorry dont know and not sure anyone with kitten birth knowledge on at this time of night  :hug:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Philip on August 06, 2009, 23:36:02 PM
Could be. She might be feeling a little anxious as the time is coming.

She will start to scratch the floor a lot and will start looking around choosing a nesting site.

You will have to watch her as she may choose somewhere she deems safe but inaccessible by you.

When they are born she will lick them to stimulate them into breathing. You should watch for signs that its not working just in case.

If it isn't working make sure the kittens airways are cleared. You should gently swing the kitten up and forwards.

She will eat the placenta of each kitten as its born as the placenta contains oxytocin. A hormone that stimulates further contractions of the womb.

She should know what to do instinctively. It amazed me when My Elle gave birth how well she took to it.

Provide her with a nice secure area. She will need lots of good food as supplying milk to her kittens will take a lot out of her.

Her milk (or colostrum) will provide the kittens with around 5 weeks natural immunity.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 06, 2009, 23:38:58 PM
she keeps going on and off our bed hope she doesn't plan to have them there I made her several nice box's and put them around in different quiet spots for her.

P.S Gill I forgot it was late there lol it's only 6:30 here
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on August 06, 2009, 23:44:10 PM
hope you have just seen phillips post cos he has been there  ;D
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Philip on August 06, 2009, 23:47:38 PM
Ensure all the kittens are able to latch on to mums teats and suckle correctly.

If you find a kitten is having difficulties check for abnormalities like a cleft palate. A tell tail sign of a cleft palate is that when the kitten suckles, milk leaks out of the nasal passages as the upper jaw bone isn't properly fused.

If mum cant cope with feeding there is a artificial milk called KMR from the USA. Its better than the powdered stuff you can get and its already a liquid that can be frozen into ice cubes and defrosted as necessary.

If any of the kittens need syringe feeding. a 1 ml syringe is good as kittens usually have enough power to suckle from one without you needing to push on the plunger.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 06, 2009, 23:47:49 PM
I'm watching her closely or I should say she's watching me she's  just sitting here yelling at me and wanting me to pet her. That for the advice on the kitens I will keep it in mind.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Philip on August 06, 2009, 23:51:45 PM
A queen getting more affectionate is a very good sign that the time is close.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on August 06, 2009, 23:52:15 PM
so go and stroke her  :ahh:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 06, 2009, 23:53:06 PM
I am lol it's hard not to when she's rubbing her face on mine
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Philip on August 07, 2009, 00:00:31 AM
I would say its going to be tonight or tomorrow now.

Make sure they have a warm nesting area as newborn kittens are not able to thermoregulate.

Mums teats should be enlarged and you should be able to feel her mammary glands.

I'm afraid it might be a long night for you now. but it will be worth it.

When you hear the noise of tiny kittens suckling its the loveliest noise you could hear.  :Luv:

You do realise you are going to lose countless hours just watching them.

Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on August 07, 2009, 00:02:31 AM
It always seems to be at night so get ready for gone midnight and have a vets number handy incase of any problems  :hug:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 07, 2009, 00:07:20 AM
Her teats are swollen for sure and I can feel the mammary glands. It's not actually that late here maybe she will have them before midnight it's only 7 now. and cute pics :D I'll post some for you guys when they get here.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Philip on August 07, 2009, 00:10:45 AM
This info from Fab cats is excellent

http://www.fabcats.org/breeders/infosheets/breeding_from_your_cat/felineparturition.html

Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on August 07, 2009, 02:38:11 AM
Hope things go well  :hug:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 07, 2009, 02:57:59 AM
Well she has been meowing for about 3 hours now with know change.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: blackcat on August 07, 2009, 06:18:06 AM
If she is panting or straining then she is in labour. Otherwise she is probably just feeling jolly uncomfortable. If the former and there is nothing showing, then a quick call to the vets might be a good idea.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 07, 2009, 06:35:09 AM
well it's 1:30am she's currently in one of her nesting boxes just laying in there still crying a bit when I check on her other then that she's quiet, Called the vet he says not to worry that she's just having labour pains and they can last for a while and that I should call back in the morning around 9 if there is no change. Poor little girl I don't think I will be getting any sleep tonight.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Pinkbear (Julie) on August 07, 2009, 07:20:40 AM
Cats don't actually realise they are pregnant so she doesn't know what's happening to her. Try to reassure her if you can. She will be scared.  :(
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 07, 2009, 08:07:52 AM
"yawns" 3:05am anyone have a good excuse for me to give my boss as to why I'm calling in? Do you think my cat is having babies soon will go over well lol
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 07, 2009, 09:25:27 AM
4:22am she had a kitten just one so far it's all cleaned off and she is feeding it now ooooohhhh so excited
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: blackcat on August 07, 2009, 09:46:41 AM
When my cat was pregnant my boss was told that I would not be in the day she went into labour. Fortunately for all of us she chose to give birth on a Saturday, lol. But i think that my daily disappearances home for lunch were a clear indication to him that I would be quite useless if I was not there during the birth  :rofl:

It is a wonderful thing to witness. Just make sure you don't fuss her up too much. :hug:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 07, 2009, 10:05:37 AM
2 kitten now she brought one out to me I took it back and she brought it right back, but she's staying in there with the other one? Whats this all about?
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: blackcat on August 07, 2009, 11:17:28 AM
she's not sure she wants to keep it. It may be sickly and she knows it will not survive, or she may just want to give you a present. Just put it back with her again, but if she becomes agitated you may need to hand raise that one.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 07, 2009, 12:04:35 PM
sad news every one one kitten is dead  Irubbed it for so long in a towel but it's gone she seems very upset and the other 2 are very cold she is licking them but not laying down to feed them I'm not touching her or anything but I can peek in the back of her houses and see what is going on
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Philip on August 07, 2009, 12:18:11 PM
I'm very sorry to hear about the kitten that died. Its' probable it wasnt viable and thats why it didnt survive.  :hug:

I lost one due to it having a cleft palate.

Cats seem to know which ones wont make it and tend to ignore them. Sickly kittens tend to move away from the rest of the litter and sometimes mum wont settle until they have passed on.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 07, 2009, 12:21:33 PM
it was the one she kept bringing to me :( I can't believe it I'm devastated she's not staying with the other 2 either but she is still in labour I'm very worried for them but the vet says to leave her be for a few hours then check again so I'm waiting but  Ican hear the poor little guys crying and she's not going to them they are pushed aside in the towel.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Philip on August 07, 2009, 12:28:55 PM
If she is still in labour she wont settle to allow the kittens to suckle.

If the other kittens are crying out thats a good sign and mum should settle to start feeding them when the rest are born.

Its all new to her. In an little while perhaps when she lays down you could try placing the kittens mouths over a teat. They should latch on and start suckling.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Pinkbear (Julie) on August 07, 2009, 12:31:02 PM
 :hug: :hug: I'm afraid breeding cats is a perilious thing and it doesn't always end in a happliy ever after.  :'(
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: LesleyW on August 07, 2009, 12:38:03 PM
Cold can kill kittens just as easily as anything else.  If she is not lying with them at the moment it maybe because she is still in labour.  I would wrap a hot water bottle up in towels and keep them near it, so they are at least getting heat from something and then maybe she will settle with them when she has finished giving birth.

Sorry about the first little kitten but, as Blackcat says, mums seems to know much sooner than we do when their little ones are not destined to make it.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Desley (booktigger) on August 07, 2009, 12:46:45 PM
They dont always want to be bothered with their babies while they are in labour, I would keep them warm and you might need to get some KMR. RIP little one, I do hope the others survive
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Bazsmum on August 07, 2009, 12:49:41 PM
RIP little one.... :(
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 07, 2009, 14:47:06 PM
9:43 she had yet another baby just now so there are three with her now she is cleaning it and she was nursing the other 2 she seems more relaxed now had a little bit to eat and was purring. I can still see another one in her belly they just keep coming  :shocked:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 07, 2009, 18:33:45 PM
well no sign of another kitten being born she is settled down now and moved them all into our bed, but they are all cleaned off and so is she, so it's OK for now  :Luv2: so the grand total was 4 kittens including the baby that didn't make it :( the other 3 seem to be doing well thank god. No pics yet the camera seems to upset her when I tried to take one so  I put it away.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 07, 2009, 18:37:03 PM
Oh I was also wondering how soon after giving birth can she be spayed, I really don't want to put her through another heat so I would like to make the appointment ASAP
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Michelle (furbabystar) on August 07, 2009, 18:39:38 PM
once the kittens have stopped feeding from her she can be spayed
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Desley (booktigger) on August 07, 2009, 18:40:55 PM
It is better to wait till the kittens are fully weaned and then about 7-10 days for her milk to die down - they can be spayed sooner, but it is a lot riskier. Be careful with all the doors for the next 10 weeks or so, as if she does come into heat (and they can do as early as 2 days after giving birth), then she will try and get out
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Philip on August 07, 2009, 18:53:52 PM
Also don't get her spayed whilst she is in heat (if she does go into heat again). Higher levels of hormones increase the risk of bleeding.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 07, 2009, 20:47:18 PM
another kitten was born just a while ago in my bed  :sick: thats 4 live ones woot woot they are all doing great now so fluffy
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: blackcat on August 07, 2009, 21:14:36 PM
So sorry to hear the little one died - cats have an uncanny ability to know these things. It can be a bit messy when they decide to share the birthing experience with you  :sick:

Four viable kittens is a great result for a first pregnancy. So well done both of you. Do get her into the vet for a checkup as soon as possible though as if she has retained any placenta that can be bad for her.

Am guessing by now you have a bed full  of purring bundles  :Luv2:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 07, 2009, 21:33:53 PM
so now that they are in my bed obviously they can't stay there I will need to sleep at some point although I haven't slept now since Wednesday night  :'( how can I move her and the babies without stressing her she defiantly doesn't want me moving them and she watches me very closely even when I'm just looking at them  I Can't pick them up or she grabs it away.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Debsymiller (Rufus' mum) on August 07, 2009, 22:20:13 PM
Glad they are doing well and mum is a happy girl. RIP little one
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Michelle (furbabystar) on August 07, 2009, 22:42:23 PM
so now that they are in my bed obviously they can't stay there I will need to sleep at some point although I haven't slept now since Wednesday night  :'( how can I move her and the babies without stressing her she defiantly doesn't want me moving them and she watches me very closely even when I'm just looking at them  I Can't pick them up or she grabs it away.

Is there anywhere else you can sleep ?
just for a couple of nights while she calms down and settles into mother hood ?
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on August 08, 2009, 00:28:15 AM
I hope you left them in your bed and you are sleeping on the floor.....its the price you pay LOL

So pleased she is Ok and RIP the little one that didnt make it
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 08, 2009, 04:43:08 AM
Sleeping on the floor tonight  I guess my husband has claimed the couch  :P
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: melysion on August 08, 2009, 12:04:26 PM
I cant wait to see the babies ... I just love Siamese cats. Indeed, I'm considering going to a Siamese rescue place at some point to adopt one.

As a side note - sorry you had a rough time Dar ... being slated because of the topic of my first post here is precisely why I'm more or less just a lurker on Purrs. I belong to another (American based) cat forum where I am extremely active but some attitudes here have really put me off which is a shame because I'm from the  UK and I was very excited to find a UK-based forum. However, the few times I have posted here I have got a load of support and advice so its a good place   ;D Plus, I'm a Top Cat volunteer on Cat Chat and its nice to 'get to know' some of the people who run the rescues that I make the ads for by reading their threads
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 09, 2009, 18:37:43 PM
going to attempt to move the babies out of my bed today, my back is getting so sore and I have to go to work in the morning. If she gets to upset  I guess  I will have to leave and and go buy a blow up mattress or something. I will try to post some pics today again it really depends on how she reacts. The whole family is doing great and she is being a great mom.

P.S ya  I was given a bit of a hard time but I do understand that there are so many unwanted kittens around that need homes and there are tones of people who are just letting there cats have kittens because they think they are cute and don't really know what they are going to do with them. However this was never the case with me and I was never really seeking permission or approval on breeding my cat all I really wanted was to see how the size of my cat would affect her when she did get pregnant and if it was safe for her. I never did get an answer to that question from here, but I took her to the vet before I bred her and he said she would be fine and if she had any problems he would do a Cesarean. But  I did gets loads of support and great advice while she was giving birth. I would like to thank everyone for that  I thought I was completely prepared I read sssooo many books and online post but when it came time that all went right out the window as she didn't really follow the "normal" signs of giving birth all she did was meow and she had no discharge or anything then all of a sudden the first baby was out. So Thanks again for the Support everyone.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on August 09, 2009, 18:43:13 PM
Its great you got the support here when you really needed it and understand that things are never easy as what you have read  ;D

A bit like DIY, in the books every thing has square corners and was put  in or done right in the first place but...............sigh!!

Dont scare them with the camera too early but I will love to see the pictures when you are able  ;D
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 09, 2009, 18:47:09 PM
So while I was sitting here mao came out and had some food and jumped up on my lap for some pets and I noticed that she still has some fresh blood coming out or her "area" and when she jumped down she had her tail straight up and kinda of shaking back and forth like a male cat would if he was spraying? I'm a little worried, she got all of the placenta's I was watching for that becauses I know the problems it can cause.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on August 09, 2009, 18:48:37 PM
Sounds like you need to get her vet checked cos cant that cause some saeriuos problems?

I hope she is OK  :hug:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 09, 2009, 18:51:51 PM
She did get them all out, so I'm not sure what is causing the bleeding all the vets are closed on Sundays and my regular vet who would of course see her whenever I needed him is on Vacation  :doh:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Desley (booktigger) on August 09, 2009, 18:54:21 PM
Cat's can bleed for a couple of days after giving birth, but it shouldnt be a lot. I would be tempted to ring the emergency vet just to be on the safe side.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Angiew on August 09, 2009, 18:56:01 PM
Its probably nothing to worry about. I rushed a foster cat to the vet for the same reason (plus she had given birth to her last kitten 36 hours after the others) and he practically laughed me out of the surgery! Though in hindsight I have not seen it in any of the other mums.

and in a way I'm quite glad you did get stick on this forum - after all it is predominantly a rescue forum. I find myself getting quite upset over any planned litters with the stuff I deal with day in and out and I'm sure most people involved in rescue feel the same way.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 09, 2009, 19:02:07 PM
it's no a lot of blood, just a little I think  I will try to call this other vet even though I really don't like him he is the only other vet in our town. This guy is terrible though so I don't think I wil ltake her unless  Ireally have to. When I had a dog I took her there to be spayed she was a very hyper dog not trained at all I got her from the humane society anyway.... right after she got spayed he was bringing her out and she jumped up on him and he actaully kicked her right in the stomach and yelled "down" uuurrrgg I was so furious I even tried to report him for abuse but it's seems some one could do anything about it. So I have never called or gone back to that place.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 09, 2009, 19:36:26 PM
Apparently I have been saved the trouble of moving the babies, she moved them into her little house, Here is the first pic sorry for the quality I took it with my phone.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Debsymiller (Rufus' mum) on August 09, 2009, 19:57:10 PM
Beautiful  :Luv2:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: melysion on August 09, 2009, 22:39:57 PM
cute pic!  :Luv2:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on August 09, 2009, 22:54:05 PM
very sweet  ;D
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Philip on August 13, 2009, 20:03:44 PM
Hows mum and little ones doing ?

Bet mum is eating more food than you expected.  :evillaugh:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 17, 2009, 18:44:09 PM
mum and babies are doing great and eating me out of house and home lol. I have had to keep my other cat separate because they do not get along at all right now, anyone know how long until they will be friends again?
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Stuart on August 17, 2009, 19:19:44 PM
awwww  :Luv: :Luv:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: dabs on August 17, 2009, 21:28:34 PM
mum and babies are doing great and eating me out of house and home lol. I have had to keep my other cat separate because they do not get along at all right now, anyone know how long until they will be friends again?

Mum cat will be protecting her little ones and it is always advisable to keep other family pets away, too much stress may cause her to abandon her nest or even kill her babies in order to preserve herself.

I would keep them apart till little ones are weaned, but still expect some grumbling and claws at dawn till the babies have been rehomed. You may then have to try reintroducing the two.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: blackcat on August 17, 2009, 21:39:34 PM
Your other cat will be curious about the noises and strange smells, but the mother cat will be feeling protective of her babies - a barrier separation will be necessary. Sometimes a cat will allow another cat to become an 'aunty' to the kittens. Mine did. It worked out well once she wanted to escape their demands as the aunty would stand in for her when she went for a wander. But it does not always work that way and sometimes the non-parental cat can become aggressive toward the kittens. So use your judgement as to what is going on and ensure no access to the kittens (and mum) unless you are directly supervising proceedings.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 25, 2009, 15:39:05 PM
Hello everyone I was wondering how early I can start giving the kittens some canned kitten food there are 3 weeks old, my poor mommy cat has raw nipples and a couple look like they have little sores on them and she cries and whimpers when she feeds them. I have a tiny little bottle and some KMR, but I was told that I should not give it to the babies because they may not want there mothers milk if I start giving it to them. They always seem very hungry and try to suck on my fingers and hand when I pet them.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Yvonne on August 25, 2009, 16:14:22 PM
Try them on a bit of wet kitten food
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dawn F on August 25, 2009, 16:46:29 PM
Dar I'd speak to whoever is your mentor
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on August 25, 2009, 18:24:14 PM
Or your vet
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Millys Mum on August 25, 2009, 19:18:25 PM
Straight to vet, sounds like mastitis to me which it is very painful and an urgent condition to treat. The kittens will need feeding by you as they wont be getting enough from her, your vet can show you how to do this
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Millys Mum on August 26, 2009, 18:48:46 PM
Any news?
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Dar on August 26, 2009, 20:27:33 PM
you were right Milly she has mastitis, the vet put both her and the babies on antibotics and gave mom some pain medication. We are hand feeding the babies now as they don't like the wet food yet.
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on August 26, 2009, 22:39:53 PM
Oh dear, I do hope she will be alright, poor little girl  :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Yvonne on August 27, 2009, 08:18:38 AM
I had mastitis, keep up the antibiotics and it will soon clear up.

Good luck
Title: Re: Breeding my cat
Post by: Millys Mum on August 27, 2009, 19:36:42 PM
Fingers crossed shes feeling better soon, must be so uncomfortable!