Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat Health & Behaviour => Health & Behaviour General => Topic started by: swampmaxmum on May 04, 2009, 10:13:46 AM
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Max is 15 1/2. He's recently started to get constipated. He gets lactulose which sometimes works well, but sometimes he sicks it up (even if I give it slowly). He goes demented if I give him katalax so lactulose is better. Max isn't like Swampy in that he's a lot more nervous about everything, especially vets. So I try to sort him out at home.
He's been refusing to eat his normal food for a few days, only eating a bit of dry when utterly starving. Totally refusing anything but a nibble at his senior turkey or chicken food (wet) which he would normally eat ok.
I'm used to him being fussy, but this is different. It's a real battle of wits. I don't think he is ill as he did try to lick my chicken curry plate!
Yesterday in desperation - he cries a lot in hunger although won't eat - I gave him 1/3 little tin of sainsburys sardines in tomato sauce which he loved. Then not more so he ate a tiny bit of dry last night and this morning an equally tiny bit of chicken wet food (I mean a teaspoon). Apparently he's not supposed to only eat sardines all the time or as his only food and I know he'll go off them anyhow as that's what he does.
I know a lot of you live with oldies who are picky eaters but I've not had this problem before. My old cats in Cape Town ate chicken and fish (no fancy cat foods out there then) and Swampy eats his k/d without complaint so far. How do I balance Max's emotional hunger striking with his need to eat? Should I give him the sardines once a day and then leave him to eat other, better food when he's desperate. The noise level gets quite bad!
I will ask the vet but any advice would be really appreciated. :hug:
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Oh dear Kate im sorry to hear that your having this problem with Max, Eddie my oldie (17 ) is a real picky eater,he will tuck into turkey or chicken and occassionally a bit of tuna/sardines but he refuses point blank to eat cat food and would rather go without so i know where your coming from,i could scream sometimes as i know hes hungry but he wont touch it,i do get him raw turkey mince from the supermarket and he will eat that for a day then refuses that also its a battle of wits as to what he will eat ,he does like RC biscuits but if he had his way he would live on chicken all the time, my other oldie George (19) will eat anything and everything thank goodness, I do hope you can find a solution to this for Max :hug:
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I had a Siamese who loved liver, but would eat hardly anything else - so I used to boil up a small amount of lambs liver in water, and then mash her cat food with the liver water
I found if it smelt of liver she would eat it - most cats love liver so you could try this as a last resort - it isn't expensive
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We have a battle of wits. Max has eaten a mouthful of dry but otherwise is holding out. I'll give him some wet food later but I'm sure he'll just ignore it. He's getting worse as he gets older. I KNOW he's hungry too.
This morning after his plate of sardines (which he licked clean) I gave him a little more....no I won't have any...then goes just into the passage, stares at me and yells his head off.
I'm going to try lactulose too as with an empty tum, I think he may eat more. OH is getting fed up at all the food we have to throw away or leave out for the fat foxes.
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I know how you feel - i am having problems with Winston at the moment .
I open a sachet -eats a couple of mouthfuls and then off he goes . Later on he comes for food again -he wont eat what he left , so i open another one and he either ignores it completely ( depending on how he feels!!) and goes off again or just has another few mouthfuls and comes back again a couple of hours later .
I have been opening about 5-6 sachets a day ( none of the others are keen on felix ) .
I have enough food left at the end of the day to feed another 6 cats !!
Its his birthday on wednesday and he will be 11.
He has got a nice bit of cod loin for tea- bet he doesn;t leave that !!!
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I feel so bad about moaning about my little Max monster. Tonight he went to the tray 4 times in 1/2 hr, scratched and yelled but didn't produce anything so we went to Vet's Now AH clinic. He had to have an emergency catheter (no anaesthetic) to produce urine. I was so scared as the vet said that he may have to operate if the catheter didn't work. But he got a lot out of Max but he'll have to go to the normal vet in the morning. His urine has some blood in it. The vet he saw was brilliant. He's Italian and a really serious vet. I was scared too we'd see someone lousy on a bank hol night. He knew we'd got lost trying to find the vets so only charged us the before 11pm rate too, despite seeing our Max at 11.30 so I am impressed and will drop him a line to thank him, because OH and I were quite aggressive at first about how we were going to bring Max home tonight and the vet was saying well, I hope you can, but I can't let a cat with a blockage go home or he will die.
We don't know why he was unable to wee as he did wee this morning. The emergency vet also says he has a slight heart murmur. I'm so wired now, I'm probably going to be up all night, but I'm so so glad that I took him. You hear bad things about Vet's Now, but this guy (Davide) was excellent. Poor little Max. His witch of a mum is trying to find a wet food he likes - it looks like I'll have to find some palatable pet junk food as he now won't really eat enough senior food. I don't suppose sardines in tomato sauce is either balanced or has enough water in it. (any suggestions on the food please? nothing high in phosphorus).
I'm so scared though about what may be wrong and what tests my poor little one will need. Both the normal vet and I sort of took Max's health for granted as he had bloods and a health check 2 months ago and was fine (early CRF but otherwise fine). He is 15 1/2 and I suppose sometimes I forget that and focus on Swampy, who is so obviously old and high care.
Sorry to go on. No idea which other cat mums or dads are up at this hour! Please send prayers and/or vibes for Maxi too.
they are in their bed, licking each other. They are so important for each other.
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Poor Max and hope that his prob gets sorted but its not easy.
I have Franta who went through a period of not eating until he was ill this year and the vet tried everything to get him to eat. He is about the same age as Max and is very fussy, moreorless its lick the jelly from felix and eats his biscuits and thats it!
Kocka my first cat refused to eat and would let herself die rather than eat anything she decided she didnt like and she lived on AD diet off my finger for about 3 yaers cos it was the only thing I could guarantee to get into her and she also ate other things she fancied from time to time but it was a nightmare.
I tried all the foods around at the time and had a cupboard stacked with food she had liked once!
My vet said to let her eat anything that she wanted cos to eat is better than not eating.
I would try AD with Max to try and get him eating again and I also found that hi-life turkey and chicken giblets.....its a little tin with yellow on, and is a soft pate type food went down quite well. The others in the series are quite different.
I also resorted to sainsburys pouches and she would like the gravy ones from tesco where she just licked the gravy. In the end she went onto eat whiskers supermeat from tins which was totallt daft as that had been rejected when she ate normally.
Are you sure his teeth are OK?
The shouting is probably hunger and or the start of dementia maybe, Franta is quite shouty too and Kocka suffered from dementia in her last couple of years but she was a moggies and older.
I know Max is a pedigree and I dont know if his bredd is like birmans who on the whole dont live as long as moggies ands other peds.
:hug: :hug: :hug:
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Did they check his blood pressure, as that can cause excessive vocalisation, as can hyper-t. Glad it was nothing too serious and you can find something he will eat - fish can contribute towards urinary problems though.
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He really won't eat more than a teaspoon of anything so is going to the vet at 11.30. He did a wee in the night but the emerg vet thinks he may block again. He's also constipated, poor little Max. Unsurprisingly he has lost weight too. I don't take notes for Max but think he last ate properly (dry food) on about thursday or friday last week. Sometimes he goes off food so we don't take much notice you see. But the emergency vet made a good point when I said he's often too sleepy to bother to go to the tray -he said is he too sleepy to drink (no) so he needs a check over. He's been off his usual wet food for longer than that. I hope I'm not told to just monitor him, as I've been doing that all weekend. I think he needs full investigation using anything non invasive. The emergency vet said putting in the catheter was so easy as Max just sits there - he freezes and pretends it isn't happening - so it should be possible to scan his tum or bladder without sedation. I don't want him having any sedation if possible. I'm so worried.
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Positive vibes for Max at the vets~~~~~hope he gets well soon! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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Good luck today xx
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Poor Max, lots of vibes for you all :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
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There's a locum on duty today. She wanted to keep him in, to see when he ate. I told her he won't eat in hospital, he'll just hunker down so she's sent him home after giving 150ml sub cut fluids, antibiotic injection and taking bloods. She says his bladder's quite empty, which is good.
However I just CAN'T get him to eat. When he came home, he went expectantly to the kitchen looking for food so I opened a can of a/d - nope. So I gave him some sardines (the last bit) and he ate a tiny teaspoon ful then stopped. He then had a play with me and is asleep and seems content. But he's lost an awful lot of weight since January - down from 5.8kgs (too fat but he was eating so well then) to 5.1kgs now.
I'm going to the supermarket later, looking for pate foods as he won't eat chunks and will get more sardines too. Hi life I'll get. Anything else that is irresistable? I'm getting so anxious. The vet said despite the constipation there's not a lot in there to come out. He must eat or will be in hospital on a drip tomorrow.
Does either Asda or PAH have the Hi life? Max has just eaten a small plate of Hi Life tuna (please may it stay down). Is it a whole or complementary food and is it not too bad for him (CRF)? The Italian vet last night said if he is 15, he should get what he likes.
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What about Applaws Kate? its not pate style, but could be worth a try? The Hi Life pouches are complete. :hug:
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Aww poor Max :hug:
Maybe mushing his food with a little warm water, it will create an aroma :) The poor fella must not want to eat cos of his bowel problems.
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I bought Byron some Hi Life pouches at the weekend and she loves them, I was surprised! as she usually just licks foods other than Whiskas supermeat, she gobbled one down so fast last night it came straight back up :-:
Hope Max starts to eat soon poor boy :hug:
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I'm off now to just load up with whatever I can find that has no chunks. He won't chew. He won't eat blended chunks either. He seems to like smelly fishy food at the moment. He is a nightmare when he is well to get to eat wet food, so when he isn't...oi. Thanks for the help, I'll just see what I can find. The vets said to try whiskas etc senior but think it's all chunks in jelly? They say they've not seen a cat refuse a/d before either. Well he thought it was revolting.
He did come to the kitchen and has produced a poo, so I still live in hope.
My computer fan is so loud I think there's something wrong. Hope I can still get online to Purrs.
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Will he eat some Whiskas supermeat tuna flavoured? it is very mushy and smelly - Byron enjoyed hers this morning and I know it's not the best of diets but if he will eat it it's something.
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The little tins of hi-life turkey and gibblets are not complimentary and are pate and quite smelly, mind ad is very smelly.
Just wondering whether Max is stressed cos of Swampy and cos Swamp gets so much attention?
I so agree with the Italian vet and think Max should be allowed to eat anything he wants at his age.
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Aww poor Max and you. :hug:
Could you ask your vet for PERIACTIN tablets, its appetite stimulater ! Every time i manage to get 1/2 to Phoebe she starts eating within few hours. My vet says it do no harm to her and she has CRF and H.Thyroid.
Gourmet Gold with ocean fish is very mshy and you can get it from most super markets, if you already done your shoping then pm me your address and i send you some tomorrow , i also got some almo nature today to try for her, i have never tried them before but can send you the salmon one to try for Max?
At the moment i am in the same situation with Phoebe, she is not eating so am trying all different food !
:hug: :hug:
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I've just got back, laden with various tins for Max from PAH and Asda and then the Sainsburys own brand sardines in tomato sauce....only to find that the Hi life tuna flakes I picked only 1 tin of, thinking it's complementary, is actually now a complete food :Crazy: anyhow I tried him on a hi life ocean whatnot pouch and he ate a square off the plate, that's all. I also bought some chicken pouches and some whiskas senior.
I saw the gourmet gold and wondered what it was. Thanks for the offer, can we see how we get on today, but it's so kind. I may have to go back anyway. I am also supposed to try him on i/d which he used to eat.
I've hidden it all under the bed as OH is going to freak out at the cost of it all and how much we'll have to throw away. But if he hates any one kind, if anyone wants it (pouches) let me know and I'll try to get it to you at some point.
Max has an appointment tomorrow at 9.15am with my usual vet so we'll see. He did do another wee while I was out so I'm hoping and praying the vet last night has unblocked him. If he shows any signs of blockage after 6.30 tonight it's the emergency vets again so pleeeeeeeeease no. They all say it's far too dangerous to leave even until the morning.
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Just heard there are crystals in his urine sample. He won't eat the prescription diet for FLUTD, I'm sure. Are there any other def oks or nos on diet for it? I'm waiting to hear if the locum thinks he should be kept in hospital overnight in case he blocks again. I hope not.
Just been reading about FLUTD. It seems that urine kept a long time can crystallise so it looks like he may have to have another test, especially because the pH was 6, which is apparently not high risk for crystals. Plus, like Desley says, avoid oily fish..that's all he'll eat right now. Help.
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Will he eat plain raw or cooked meats? try adding extra liquid to his meals too.
His pH does sound ok though, so, its likely there is an infection as there was blood in his urine, which the vet is already addressing with the antibiotics. :hug: Crystals usually only cause a problem (like a blockage) when they clump together with other stuff in the bladder - something triggers that clumping, be it an infection, diet, low water intake, stress, etc. I expect you've already got feliway diffusers plugged in? but if not, deffo have one or two of those going.
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thanks Gillian :hug: I am all at sea. He used to gobble up any fresh chicken but not anymore, no idea why. OH has some beef to munch up tonight so maybe we'll try him with a little of that (but it was cooked in garlic). I'm hoping we can get some more answers tomorrow. I think he should be scanned really, ultrasound, as the vet didn't think he'd need sedation. The problem is he's been off his wet food for a while now. But he drinks a lot and today he had sub cut fluids. Maybe I will have to give him those at home earlier than expected, for his bladder as much as his kidneys? It's all a bit overwhelming with both him and Swampy needing so much care. I was counting on Max being healthy for quite a while as he was in fine shape in his last proper health check in Jan and his April bloods weren't too bad either.
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just heard it may still be the locum tomorrow. I really want him to see his usual vet and get a diagnosis and treatment plan in place.
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Sorry to hear Max is still feeling under the weather,i do hope you can sort him out at the vets and find whats troubling him,will send some positive healing vibes for both Max and Swampy and :hug: for you
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Kate, hoping you can get Max sorted today, bless him. Trying to get cats to eat when they don't want to can be a major undertaking. The only advice I can add to that already given is to try anything and everything, tinned, packets, trays, fresh, cooked and raw, to see what will tempt their appetite. And it may have to be little and often, if all they will eat is a couple of mouthfuls at a time.
Sending hugs for you, Max and Swampy. :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Sorry to hear he is still having problems, but it is common for CRF cats to have urinary issues, I would be tempted to ask the vet for some Cystaid, to help soothe the lining of his bladder. Although you should avoid fish foods due to the magnesium content, as it is all he will eat, I would give it to him regardless, as it is important he eats or you are risking HL, especially as he has already lost so much weight. Periactin can work incredibly well. Has the vet checked his mouth?
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we are heading back to see the normal vet in a min. But I had to change the aptment time as have a med one of my own that I've waited 2 months for, only to find that the junior nurse forgot to rebook us a double one so it could be a rush. Max put my heart in my mouth last night as did one tray visit, howl, nothing but went back in after a few mins and did wee. This morning I think he has weed too. As for food, I took out my stash of old i/d from under the bed (where OH finds them and rolls his eyes!) and his Maxness has eaten 1/4 can this morning..almost. 1/6th anyway. And he's drunk twice. I'm sure there are investigations needed but there is a psychological element too as he is needing so much reassurance. Last night he howled to be let out of the lounge and promptly went and hid under the bed. That was after having such a huge fuss made of him by us both! We are falling over ourselves to fuss and love him, it's just that maybe he is coping less well with Swampy than before. He could also be hiding because he's feeling unwell. I think it's both.
Should get bloods back today. I will ask for periactin, thanks. :hug: got to rush.
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I can't offer any advice hun, just wanted to wish you good luck today and hope that you can find something Max will enjoy eating :hug:
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Good Luck at the vets! :Luv: :hug:
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the bloods are scary. His urea, creatinine and something else (aly - kidney marker) are sky high. The vet says it's consistent with a blockage blood reading but he's given him more sub cuts, then tomorrow if all is ok he goes in for more, then friday likewise but also to have an xray or maybe a scan too. Looks like Max will have to have sub cuts so I will have to learn how.
I have to go to an appointment, will post later. thanks for the support, it's all such a shock :hug:
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Its likely those readings will come down once the fluids have worked through and the meds have a chance to work, they do spike alarmingly during/following a blockage, but thats usually temporary. :hug:
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:hug: thanks. I hope they come down. His creatinine was over 400 and urea over 20, way way higher than April when he last had bloods. I just feel like wailing with both of them fading on me at once.
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Try to remain calm Kate and positive,i know thats easy to say but it wont do either you or Max and Swampy any good if they pick up on your stress and most of all never give up hope, you,ve done marvellous with Swampy all this time and i know you will do whats best for Max to help him through this too and we are all here for you all the time :hug: :hug:
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Swampy is so much easier as a patient than Max. He also tries so hard to help himself, it's awe inspiring. Max just collapses in a nervous heap, no matter how hard we try with him. Tonight we tried everything - ham (finally ate a little), yoghurt, cuddles galore, brush him (he loves that), took him on the landing and played with him, all brought purrs, then he goes to the door and yells and yells so he can be let through to go and sit under the bed and hide. He's always been a nervous cat. In CT he peed all over everything in our house because we had dogs living next door. The vet had basically said there was nothing more she could do, he was so miserable. Then we moved and he was fine. NOTHING has changed in the way I treat both him and Swampy since september. Max was so happy that I was sleeping in the lounge with him and was home such a lot. He was fatter than ever and so contented. From April this started to change. He stopped eating much and has lost quite a lot of weight (300g since early April and 700g since fat happy Max in Jan).
I assume that he's really nervy because he isn't feeling well, but the vet said if the scan or x ray don't find anything, the whole thing could be caused by stress or nerves. I fall over myself to make sure he gets love and attention, but nothing seems good enough. He hasn't really eaten since a very little plate of ham earlier, just a nibble of the i/d. He goes back for more sub cut fluids in the morning. He tends to be a bit better for a few hours after the fluids. I don't know if it's the fluids or being home from a stressy vet visit that perks him up. The fluids are supposed to last 24 hours in him.
he's been to the tray, but first of all he goes, doesn't squat but scratches the litter for a minute, sings loudly, then walks out, then goes back in within a couple of minutes and pees. It is all just so weird and very tiring.
Please send vibes and prayers that he improves, including his mood. thanks for being here for him :hug:
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With regard to using the tray, Eddie my old boy(17 1/2 ) does that ,he will go to the trya scratch around for a couple of mins then start miaowing and walk away, then 5 mns later goes back and uses it so try not to worry about that so much,im sending you lots of positive healing and calming vibes for all of you but especially for Max and good luck for the vets tomorrow ,do hope they can sort him out, and try and get some rest :hug: :hug:
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Sending Max good vibes for tomorrow. :hug: :hug:
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Sending positive vibes for darling Max~~~~~~and for yourself! Good Luck! :Luv: :hug:
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Fingers crossed
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Fingers crossed they can get to the bottom of it. Although you have tried to keep things as normal as possible, don't forget, like me and Charlie, Max will pick up on your anxiety re Swampy. Maybe some Zylkene might help him? Anyway see what the vet says :hug:
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Fingers crossed they can get to the bottom of it. Although you have tried to keep things as normal as possible, don't forget, like me and Charlie, Max will pick up on your anxiety re Swampy. Maybe some Zylkene might help him? Anyway see what the vet says :hug:
Great minds think alike :hug:
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thanks everyone. I am taking him soon for more sub cut fluids and they do seem to be helping him. I'll suggest the zylkene, good idea.
It's also good to know that someone else's oldie does some digging and howling before going! will post later if have any news :hug: xx to everyone
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Max goes in tomorrow at 11.30am for his scan and X ray. His urine sample was better than the one taken on monday night. No crystals and no blood. He's had loads of fluids. I have to find a wet food he will eat too, as he's on my secret stash of old formula i/d but I only have a couple of months worth.
The vet warned me that the scan or X ray would only show up any masses that were sufficiently large and so a clear scan or X ray only means there is nothing there if Max gets and stays better. Anyhow he says he should be able to do it all without sedation as Max just sits still at the vet. I will be a nervous wreck - more than normal - tomorrow. Please send the little furry beloved neurotic some excellent vibes for good news :hug:
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Sending good vibes for Max and :hug: for you. Did you ask your vet about periactin?
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I did, but he said let's wait and see. tonight Max ate a few little bits of ham, but won't touch i/d, won't get up to drink, isn't visiting the tray, just wants to lie there sleeping. It's hours since his last tray visit or meal and even in the last few days he'd have been up and about.
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Loads of good vibes for max :hug:
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Topping up the vibes for you and Max for today, Kate. :care:
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Lots of positive healing vibes for Max and Swampy and :hug: for you,hope you manage to coax Max to have some food today
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Thinking of you all today
Would Max eat wet food with water added, this is the only way we can get water into Jess.
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yes I add water to his food too. I'm going to see if they can give him lots of sub cut fluids maybe tomorrow too, to last him the weekend. I haven't dared have a coffee this morning as Max is going in in 1 hour's time.
Today he ate not too badly and had a little drink but his tray visit was with lots of howling still.
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Thinking of you and Max. :hug:
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He's home. Still not eating too much. Vet told me he can only see 2 areas of possible calcification in one kidney and abdomen, but not much else, so we just have to see how he goes in the next week or two and react to symptoms. There were 3 dogs in today so Max was a bit jumpy, although they did try to keep him separate from them. Apparently he sat and got scanned without moving so no need for any sedation. He said no to periactin as it's not great for high kidney values, only if he stops eating basically. He has to have bloods in another 10 days or 2 weeks unless he is still poorly, in which case sooner.
He had more fluids so I hope he's not going to block again. Vet told me there's an enormous poo waiting to come out! No sign of it - Max is tray avoiding so may have to lactulose him if it doesn't appear by tonight! (sorry :sick:).
I'm relieved that there's no obvious mass or anything. It's so nice to have my littly back too. He curled up with me at first, but now has moved to his bed with Swampy which is great, as Swampy and him need each other.
thanks for all the vibes :hug:
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Glad to hear he's home and things are sounding a bit more positive :hug:
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Doesn't sound too bad Kate, glad nothing sinister. Just day by day remember:)
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He won't eat. All he's eaten since 8.30 this morning is a tablespoon when he came home at 3, then a teaspoon of food tonight. I just have to leave food down and see if he eats anything overnight (doubtful). He also went to hide under the bed again. I am at the end of my tether with him. He's had so much love and cuddles and attention but whatever I try, he won't help himself.
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He might be upset because he has been to the vet's? I hope it is just that and that he will soon decide to eat. How worrying it is Come on Max :hug:
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I think Max is very ill. He is unresponsive and just lies there. The only time he moves is if I try to take food to him -he moves out of bed to avoid it. I am going to phone the vet in the morning. He is always frantic on a saturday but I can't leave Max like this all weekend. I don't know what to do. He had sub cuts as well but since he got home at 3, he's only been up to the tray once as well. He went into the bedroom once, when the lounge door was open, and hid under the bed. I just don't know how to help him. Has anyone got any ideas please?
Please send him prayers and vibes. I just don't know what is wrong and nor does the vet.
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This is so sad but I know I rushed Kocka to the vets one night as an emergency doing just what Max is doing and she ended up in hospital for about a week. She was on a drip and I cant remember what else they gave her, they initially suspected she had Feline Aids, cant remember what that translates to in initials....FIV?............She was puit in isolation away from other cats but she did not have anything wrong they could find and it was catalogued as a blood infection. Guess she was given antibiotics,
She came home fine after a week of me visiting her every night and all the staff falling in love .........I do hope they can help Max :hug:
This is a long time ago, probabaly 10 years plus for Kocka and medicine and knowledge has moved on and if full bloods are not showing anything sinister, then I think its time they got some expert advice............they can contact Bristol University and get advice from there.
I know that my vet got advice for Franta but she also has a lot of contacts that she trained with at Cambridge.
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More positive vibes coming to you both~~~~~Hope he picks up soon! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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Poor Max he does sound off it, maybe a trip back to the vets if you doesn't perk up - I hope he does :hug:
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How is Max this morning? SEnding more good vibes for him. x
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He was in quite a good mood very early and ate a 1/4 plate of sardines in jelly but since then he's got miserable again. He hid under the bed and I had to drag him out for a cuddle. Now he is in bed with Swampy but isn't asleep. I've just given him 1/4 tab periactin as the vet says he must eat. I don't know how long it takes to work, but what we don't know is if it's his kidneys making him feel ill and mizz or if it's behavioural. He has a history of nervous behaviour but has never been this bad, so I tend to think the main reason must be physical.
but he walked around this morning too. What is odd is he only has been 3 times since 3pm yesterday to pee despite all the fluids. He's not going to the tray and aborting so don't think he's blocked. Just utterly fed up.
I was hoping to see the vet today but he couldn't. He's not there until wed, there will be a locum.
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Hey Kate I would get him in to see the locum - his case isn't as complicated as Swampy's, Save you worrying and being anxious which is not good for him, as you and I both know well. Did you speak to the vet about Zylkene? It has worked really well for some cats (Leanne has had great success with it) although it wasn't strong enough for Charlie. Please please try not to be anxious (says she who has anxiety levels that would explode the earth given half a chance) because I have seen it with Charlie, it does affect them.
Will pm y ou later but sending big hugs for you, Max and Swampy (plus your OH of course HAPPY BIRTHDAY S) :hug: :hug:
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God Bless the Periactin. Having vomited a tiny bit of sardines in jelly that he licked at lunchtime, he's now eaten a little plate of k/d and about 10 of his dry biccies. I decided to leave out some familiar food as long as he was having wet too. I hope to use the periactin to wean him on to k/d (wish me luck....) but at least he seems happier too. He went into the bedroom and didn't hide, he sat on the ledge that Swampy fell off in september for his accident. It's the only place with any sun all summer in poxy flat. He's now gone to sleep with Swampy's head on his, too.
Anyone know how many days you can safely give periactin for? Does it just work on the brain? He's on 1/4 or maximum 1/2 once p.d and I have 2 tablets. My vet said it isn't safe for 'too long' and tends to work 'straight away but not for long' whatever that means. Anyhow please send prayers and vibes that Max will now eat and be happier. He's only eaten a little, but that's better than nothing even if he won't eat later. He's still not visiting the tray nearly as much as I would expect him to, seems to have gone back to his twice a day that the locum was worried about, so hope he doesn't block again.
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Anyone know how many days you can safely give periactin for? Does it just work on the brain? He's on 1/4 or maximum 1/2 once p.d and I have 2 tablets. My vet said it isn't safe for 'too long' and tends to work 'straight away but not for long' whatever that means. Anyhow please send prayers and vibes that Max will now eat and be happier. He's only eaten a little, but that's better than nothing even if he won't eat later. He's still not visiting the tray nearly as much as I would expect him to, seems to have gone back to his twice a day that the locum was worried about, so hope he doesn't block again.
[/quote]
Kate, i am pleased Max had some thing to eat, my vet said its safe for Phoebe to take Periactin , as long as needed . I told him i dont want to keep her for too long because i need to find the reason why she stops eating, but TBH right now is doing wonders and she is eating and feeling better and taking her med for CRF and HT, she is on 1/2 tab twice a day and for now i am not going to stop it . My vet assured me it wont do any harm and even said he treats a cat which has CRF and is been on Periactin for over a year now and doing well!
The problem i have with Phoebe is her other meds and because i have to hide them in treats i cant afford for her to have only dry, and that's what she was doing in last 3 weeks just a bit of dry but since tuesday she is eating normal and doesn't look too miserable, but still yowling? I also know even on Priactin she may stop again as she did 2 weeks ago ! I hope Max start having proper meals soon , how about if you give him just 1/2 tab in one go instead of 1/4 twice a day, till 1/4 may not be strong enough but check with your vet. If he says yes and you want to continue till Max get his appetite back i can just put few in post for you, to save you the trip to the vet.
Sending more good vibes for Max and i hope he start feeling better soon. x
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Just seen this - sending loads of healing vibes for Max. :hug:
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Kate, i am pleased Max had some thing to eat, my vet said its safe for Phoebe to take Periactin , as long as needed . I told him i dont want to keep her for too long because i need to find the reason why she stops eating, but TBH right now is doing wonders and she is eating and feeling better and taking her med for CRF and HT, she is on 1/2 tab twice a day and for now i am not going to stop it . My vet assured me it wont do any harm and even said he treats a cat which has CRF and is been on Periactin for over a year now and doing well!
The problem i have with Phoebe is her other meds and because i have to hide them in treats i cant afford for her to have only dry, and that's what she was doing in last 3 weeks just a bit of dry but since tuesday she is eating normal and doesn't look too miserable, but still yowling? I also know even on Priactin she may stop again as she did 2 weeks ago ! I hope Max start having proper meals soon , how about if you give him just 1/2 tab in one go instead of 1/4 twice a day, till 1/4 may not be strong enough but check with your vet. If he says yes and you want to continue till Max get his appetite back i can just put few in post for you, to save you the trip to the vet.
Sending more good vibes for Max and i hope he start feeling better soon. x
[/quote]
bless you and thanks x I'll speak to the vet about it and that's helpful info to know. I think when it comes to it, he will let me do what it takes to keep Max eating. I'm going to have to give it again because he will only nibble at Applaws chicken breast this morning (I'm going to write to the co to say please make your food complete and keep it so palatable, you will make a fortune!). My heart was in my mouth as come 5am he'd not peed, although hadn't even tried, since 7 last night. That's how he was before he blocked and had all the sub cut fluids. Max then ate a little Applaws (about 1/4 of one of those tiny tins), then he went to wee after scratching to Australia etc, then he had a drink. So if he doesn't eat, he doesn't drink, he doesn't pee.
I cuddled him and told him he's 10 times worse than a man with man flu :evillaugh:
I'm going to give him a 1/4 later as on periactin at that dose he ate some k/d yesterday and that's the best for him right now if he's only eating a little. It's encouraging in a way that I had to chuck out food that he wouldn't eat as he was holding out for Applaws as 2 days ago he just lay there. But so good to hear Phoebe's been helped with it too. At the end of the day, they have to eat.
:hug: x hope Phoebe's enjoying some sunshine today too
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Has he poo'd yet Kate, as if not, that could be why he is reluctant to eat, you dont want to eat if you are full of poo.
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yes he has, thanks. Just given him another 1/4 periactin as he seems vaguely interested in food only to refuse it so needs a nudge. At least his mood is a bit better, but it's hard work. He's a difficult patient is our Max. Very nervy at the best of times and when feeling unwell, even worse.
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the minx was yelling with hunger but refused both his usual foods, then ate a mouthful of dry (about 5 biscuits), so I gave in. He just ate 1/4 can of Hi Life tuna complete food. It's not good for him but I can't manage with him being periactinned and still refusing food.
Does Hi Life only come in tuna and fishy things or do they do a chicken? I need a stinky, complete, chicken food which is easy to eat (no chunks). Help! :thanks: He likes Applaws but not complete sadly. (how 'incomplete' is it, does anyone know?). I'll have to email the vet tomorrow. He's not normally there mon and tues.
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They do a chicken but its not smooth like the tuna! :(
This is really awkward for you and Im sure your head must be hurting....I do hope some food he like's that is good for him is accepted soon!
Thinking of you all! :hug:
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could you try mashing a bit of the tuna into the chicken food, so that it smells fishy?
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If he is eating the small 80g tins of HiLife, they do a chicken and giblet pate and salmon pate individually, as well as a box with three different chicken flavours in (I have just put my box in for recycling or I could tell you the flavours) and a box with 3 tuna flavours - my PAH sell both boxes, but only the supermarkets sell the individual ones. There is also the Essentials pouches (asda only) that come in chicken, or their boxes of pouches, but they are a bit hit and miss with cats I find, and similar to Purely and Tesco foods.
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Poor Max and swampy Hope things soon get better for you all xx
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thanks, I cleaned out PAH of their Applaws and they only have the tuna hi Life so I'll have to go to the supermarket. However Max is very poorly tonight. He won't purr or respond to affection or anything and is just lying there in their bed with Swampy sleeping. He won't eat. I have given him another 1/8th Periactin to see if it helps and emailed the vet. I don't think the vet's at work until wednesday and I don't want a locum deciding to put him in hospital for ages, with him stressing out and shutting down and Swampy not coping without him either - I risk losing them both. Of course if he absolutely needs to be in hospital then he must be, but not unless.
I hope my email will at least get a response from the vet who knows Max - not too well though, as Max hasn't been in to the vets much as has been so healthy up until now. Please send vibes and prayers for him.
He did perk up a bit earlier with the 1/4 periactin and ate a bit, but less than yesterday and he wouldn't touch the k/d today, just his old dry food a little and the "sick cat" foods like hi life and applaws a little.
I've never been this worried about Max before.
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Sorry to hear Max is poorly still - you are going through it with both being ill and the fact that they are so close to each other too .
Sending lots of healing vibes from us all in Lincoln and :hug: :hug: :hug: to all of you .
Can''t stay online tonight as i have been painting in here and the fumes are getting to much !!
Will check again tomorrow and hope things improve for them
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I think he needs to see the vet regardless of whether it is a locum or not, he can't wait till Wed - you can always explain the situation and that hospitalisation really is a last resort if there is nothing you can do at home.
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just back from the vet. Max had more bloods taken, hopefully the results back tonight or tomorrow, including thyroid this time. The locum's the same one that saw him last tuesday and she thinks he looks better, although his behaviour and eating are worse. They didn't do bp as I"d hoped but are waiting for the bloods. He's staying on periactin.
I will never give it at night again though. Max howled from 3 - 4 am and then from 6am until he settled. We are so worried not just about him but about our own sleep and that of the neighbours. OH has some very tricky work to do at present and is working so hard and needs to sleep. Max has a terrible voice, quite siamese. OH got him to eat a little Applaws (couple of mouthfuls) by cuddling him and stroking his tummy, at 2am. This is while the periactin is still working, so the first day when he ate well on it has passed and now he's fussy and yelling even when on it. This morning I got him to eat a couple of mouthfuls of felix senior chicken in jelly. The trouble is that Max is also going to see all these different foods and hold out for a better one, but I can't let him hunger strike in his current condition. It's exhausting.
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The usual vet just rang. Max's creatinine and urea have gone up even more, to 441 and 20. He needs to be in hospital so is going in tomorrow for 3 - 4 days. He will be tested every day and I can visit him, but Max will need to fight. The vet says there is hope, but we'll know more at the weekend. He then would fit him with a catheter for sub cut fluids, if his kidneys and urea come down. Otherwise we have to make a decision on how long he may have. I am in total shock. He had full bloods done in January and he was fine. Then last week's scan was clear. As you know I have Swampy so unwell and Swampy is reliant on Max too - he loves to relax and sleep by putting his little head on Max's tum. OH is very busy at work right now, working long hours, so I am alone with this. So i need you good people please to pull for him, to send him your prayers and vibes that he can get better.
His readings should have come down in a week after the blockage apparently. I think he probably should have been in hospital last week but the vet didn't think so at the time. I just hope we haven't waited too long.
I have to try to stay calm for him but I am in tears as I type this. I am not even allowed to give him anything but yoghurt tonight and no Zylkene.
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Poor boy, I hope that the vets can get him feeling much better and he's not away too long :hug:
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Oh no Kate, no. COme on Max you can do it boy, we are all here rooting for you and your mum and Swampy. Just put up the best fight you can Maxy boy we know you can do it.
Love love love and hugs to you all
xxxxxxxxx :hug: :hug: :hug:
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oh Kate :hug:
I am shocked, I am so sorry this is happening to You and Max
I will send up a little prayer that Max is strong enough to fight this
I am really gutted for you.....you so dont need this xxxxxxx
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Oh Kate im so sorry to hear this news about Max :( you must be in bits, but please try and stay positive,we are all rooting for Max and sending lots and lots of positive healing vibes for him and also for Swampy,he still needs you even more so if Max is hospitalised, im sorry your having to deal with this on your own but our prays are with you all :hug: :hug:
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Sending you tons of :hug: :hug: :hug: and all my positive vibes for Max, come on little man :hug:
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Poor Max :( - I feel so sorry for Swampy too, not having his best friend for comfort - and also for you & OH having to deal with it all :hug:
Come on Max - you are needed back & fit! :ahh:
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Sorry Kate :hug: Hope more fluids can bring his creatinine etc down and get him stable. Sending lots of positive vibes for Max. :hug:
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Pappilon, I"m so sorry about Phoebe. I hope you find a way to get the periactin down her :hug: it's so hard I know. Keep on trying, don't give up on her. :hug:
Max got a new bed today, I got him a PAH dog bed that was on special and biked it home for him. He loves it. They are both cleaning each other sitting on it. OH carried Max around the flat on it like an emperor and he purred. Then he limped - his arthritis is worse with these toxins - to the kitchen and ate a little bit of fresh chicken tonight. That's a good sign in that it shows obviously he can feel better; but it also isn't in that it shows that only when he is relaxed and happy does he try to feel better (if you know what I mean; it was the bed ride and cuddles that made him eat I am sure).
One day at a time. Your thoughts mean so much to me, thank you so much. I'm just so grateful you are all here, pulling for Max and for Swampy :hug: xxxx
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Kate, you must be a wreck. (I know I would be.) Sending you hugs and hoping there's an improvement for Max soon.
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I am so sorry to hear this news - really hope Max picks up and Swampy doesn''t miss him too much .
Don''t know what else to say except we (me and my 5 cats) will be sending all the healing vibes in the world to Max and Swampy and loads of :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: to you all .
Take care -hope things start to get better .
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Topping up the positive vibes, really hope the fluids help!~~~~~~~~~ :wish:
:grouphug:
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Adding my thoughts and prayers to the others Kate. Come on Max, baby. :hug: :hug:
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Fingers crossed the fluids help and he is soon back home
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Oh Kate, I'm shocked, sending all the possible vibes we can from us :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Nothing I can say other than we're thinking of you. :hug:
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OH Kate I am so sorry you are hving to go through this :hug:
Come on Max you little trooper- fight for your mummy, the handsome Swampster and most of all your handsome self. We all want the best for you. over the past few months many of us now think of you and Swampy as our own, though your mummy wont let you come live with us.
You can do it Max xxxxxxxxxxx
Kate if possible go and visit him twice a day - I visited Zak on my lunch time and in the evening, after the first lunch time visit - when I went back in the evening (for an hour) the vet said that Zak had perked up after seeing me :Luv:, I also took him my sweatshirt as a comfort blanket so he has his mummy's smellls with him.
Mega :hug: to you all xxxx
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Morning Kate -
Just want You to know that You, Max and Swampy are still in my thoughts xxx
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sorry you are having such a hard time Kate - hope things improve for Max soon
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Sending more positives vibes for Max, and hope he is soon back home . :hug: :hug:
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My Max is going in in 10 mins time. He had a good night, he even ate a little and he was happy. Yes I am a wreck. I will pop in whenever they allow me to. The T shirt is a good idea. I will take in my sleep shirt later on , once he's settled. thanks everyone, I must try to be calm for him. xx
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Your not having a good time at all :(
Hope Max can pull through soon :hug:
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:hug:
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Glad Max had a good night. Sending you these :hug: :hug: :hug: and lots of positive vibes that the vets can sort him out this time and he's soon back home with you and Swampy.
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just left him for the first time in his life, in hospital. The locum vet left him in his carrier for a bit because she said he was hyperventilating; he sort of sunk into the back of the carrier. I can go in and see him after 4 today. I know he has to have IV fluids but I just hope he can calm down and let his treatment work because stress isn't good for his kidneys either.
I came home to find Swampy has his head on the little stuffed toy seal I put in their bed this morning. It's not Max, but it is a pillow. I'm going to try to spend as much time around Swampy as I can. He is used to being left alone by Max during the daytime, but not at night.
I took a urine sample from Max which looked like water, it's so dilute. I know you know it, but I am so scared.
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Aw you poor thing. :hug: :hug: :hug: Wish I could be there to give you a real one. Max is in the very best place right now Kate, he will cope I am sure. Once he gets some fluids etc into him he will probably start to feel a whole lot better. It is a stressful time for all of you there is absolutely no doubt about that but please please try to stay calm. Your puddy cats need a calm mummy (coming from the biggest stresshead on Purrs!). I said in my pm is it possible that now would be a good time for Laura to come in and give you a hand and some sleep. If you think you have to be up all night with Swampy and then are rushing hither and thither to visit Max and still looking after Swampy who is looking after you?
You have my phone number and I am here if you need me. Both Max and Swampy are in all our thoughts and we are all sending positive vibes. The purrs people have that special capacity for supporting each other, it is a very special family to belong to.
:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
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:hug:
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So sorry and fingers crossed Max improves.
:hug:
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going to see my boy just after 3 today. The nurse rang to say what a good patient he is. That's because he freezes when frightened so he's easy for vets to prod and poke around at, not like my Swampy who has "wriggly" written all over his notes. Anyhow he's on his drip. They were going to give him fortekor so luckily they checked first as it makes kidneys spike for the first week doesn't it?
:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: to all of you
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Did you remember to take him a t-shirt or something with your smells on.
Hope he's not too stressed pooor little fella xxxx
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They were going to give him fortekor so luckily they checked first as it makes kidneys spike for the first week doesn't it?
Yes it can cause a spike in creatinine initally, so not a good idea with his creatinine so high at the mo. Presume they will wait to see if the fluids bring creatinine down before thinking about fortekor?
Lots of best wishes for your visit :hug:
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I can't get Swampy to settle for long (predictable). Luckily the nurse on duty will just let me through at whatever time I can get there. I have managed to find a catsitter to sit with Swampy tomorrow when I go out and when I visit Max. I hope Swampy gets used to being on his own quite quickly.
The vets nurse says Max is very quiet and subdued. I'm going to go for an hour or so and cuddle him and take him some yoghurt.
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He is bound to be quiet and subdued Kate he is scared and not feeling well. He will feel much better when he sees his mummy. Is it Laura cat sitting for you? Hope he perks up when he sees his mum and hope the Swampster settlesxxx
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once he sees you he will perk up and know he's not been left :hug:
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I spent an hour with Max. At first he was growly and hissy, not at me (at the nurse - she got a big hiss) but in general. I just held him and sat with him and at one point he licked my nose. Anyhow the cage door broke and so the other nurse (who doesn't get hissed at) moved him to another cage. He seemed to much prefer the other cage and ate some fresh chicken pieces out of my hand and actually purred. I took my grot old sleep T shirt and he had his little head on that when I left. They use a funny sort of pellet cat litter so I hope he's not put off. His neighbour is a huge diabetic cat who seems very sweet but was totally put off by the pellets - I watched her try her tray a few times before deciding no!
I am going back for 10 mins tonight to give him his cystease and a lick of some yoghurt, then I don't know if I will be able to see him before tomorrow afternoon. Laura is coming to Swampy sit tomorrow morning as I have to go out, then she says she can do another hour or so in the afternoon so I will go back at 4-ish to see my boy.
I feel we both got a lot out of it. Getting a purr was very special. He has got "very scared" on his notes and it seems the locum had to try both front paws before getting the drip in..but the main vet will be back tomorrow.
MM will pm you later on when I've been back. Swampy is unsettled and turning when he walks, which is stress, but right now I can hear snores.
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could you put Max'z blanket by him so he can smell him.
Pleased he is doing ok xxxx
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Im sure Max will be fine once hes seen you and your sleep shirt will help him settle, im glad to hear hes had some chicken and you got a big purr, thats got to be a good sign and he hopefully will soon feel better and will come home to you and Swampy, try to stay calm and positive and im sure things will be fine, will send lots of positive vibes for Max and Swampy and hugs for you :hug: :hug:
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:hug: awww bless hopefully Swampy will sleep lots until his pal is back home and hopefully that will be soon xx
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I'm fretting tonight just thinking of him alone in there. Plus when he moved cage, the heatpad cord didn't reach and the vet wasn't there to put an extension on. I forgot to remind the nurse before I left. It's quite cold tonight and I'm just thinking of my Maxi not being warm enough. He's used to being warm as toast here and it's a comfort, also for his arthritis.
Vet just emailed. He's had to express his bladder which must be stress as he went at least 3x last night at home. Plus he's given him a heatpad and got him to eat a little yoghurt. I can see that his main enemy to get better is just as predicted - stress.
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Your visits will cheer him up and let him know he is not abandoned. I am sure the vet and nurses know how to deal with a stressed cat and can, if necessary, give him something to calm him. He is in the best place, he needs the treatment and you have done the right thing. I hope you will soon see an improvement and he will be home. He will probably sleep all night as the stress will have tired him out, whilst his mummy sits worrying. Try not to pre empt what he will do. The fact that he has the energy and enthusiasm to hiss at the nurse he doesn't like seems to indicate he has no way given up.
You take care of Swampy and yourself tonight and try and be as fresh as you can to face another day tomorrow.
We are all behind you, Max and Swampy and there are so many positive thoughts, vibes and loving cyber hugs coming your way they couldn't fail to make an impact.
:hug:
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Kate try not to stress to much as Chrissie says Max is in the best place at the moment and you need to try and get some rest ( not east i know ) and comfort Swampy whose without his pal tonight, and just remember things always seem worst at night,topping up the positive vibes for all concerned :hug:
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I wasnt on yesterday and am so sorry to hear how bad Max has got. I do hope the vet can sort him out and your visiting will help so much. Loads of good vibes for Max :hug: :hug:
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Thinking of you all and still sending the positive vibes~~~~~~ :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Oh Kate, any news on Max this morning?
I'm sure he was comforted by visits. If Max is stressed could the vets not put a towel over the front of his cage to try and get him to chill out a bit, this worked quite well with Jess.
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Just catching up on this - so sorry that Max is in hospital :hug: :hug: Poor lad. I can understand how you feel because Jaffa hates being at the vet and you just wish you could explain to them that it's for their own good and there's no need to stress out so much. I hope he shows some improvement today and can go home soon. Hugs for Swampy too :hug:
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Max ate well when he saw us this morning (we both popped in), a sort of unnatural adrenalin rush type eating, but at least he ate. He'd peed all over my T shirt so had to bring it home and will look for something else that smells of home. He was quite active but it's early days and the vet wants him in until friday or saturday - tbc when he's had more tests. They have given him a blanket to hide under, but what he is really struggling with is the teeny litter tray, which he seems to avoid using (he had to be expressed last night, but did pee overnight and on my T shirt) which is a big problem as he needs to flush his kidneys by weeing a lot. I put in some of his usual litter and he had a scratch but it's tiny compared to what he is used to. I can only hope he gets used to it.
It was lovely to see him and cuddle him and he purred. I think he does benefit. I'm going back again today at about 4 to stay for as long as I can as Laura is coming to look after Swampy, who is stressed and needs company. I'm in a sort of suspended animation state where I just focus on please please let Max be better, let his kidneys improve. I'm sure so many people on here know the feeling. Laura helps out at the vet and she said too, it's a shock because he doesn't look ill (but the bloods and urine say otherwise).
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Can you ask for him to go in to the isolation cages if they have any they are a lot bigger and can take a normal tray
Hope things keep looking good
All paws crossed here at the Clan :hug:
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Kate, you should ask them to put him in bigger cage or pen, they do have the ones for dog on the bottom and there he can have a bigger tray, and maybe a bed to hide in.
I am glad he is eating and sending more good vibes for Max. :hug:
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Oh hunnie I am so sorry that Max is poorly - thinking of you all and sending love, huggles and positive vibes for Max, Swampy and you xxx
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Topping up with some more get well soon vibes for Maxy :Luv:
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Topping up the positive vibes for Max and hope hes soon home and lots of happy vibes for Swampy who is missing his brother and hugs for you :hug:
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:hug: hope Max is soon well enough to be home
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Max's in house kidney value results are even worse, despite all the fluids. They are now 520 creatinine and 22 urea. I am so worried. The in house machine isn't the lab but the urea is only 2 different, so the creatinine is unlikely to be too far off. Last week the lab had his creatinine at 440. The vet says he is concerned because he's had so much fluid, they should improve but we need to see how he is after 7 days or even longer. The blockage seems to have caused a type of acute kidney failure as Max looks fat and happy now - they've moved him to a bigger 'dog' cage and he has his litter tray from when he travelled to France and back in the car, which he used when I was there. He also ate a bit of yoghurt and some Applaws and a nibble of fresh chicken and sat on my lap and purred and walked around the room. It is so hard to believe what the bloods are saying, but of course as soon as he is taken off the drip, he will just go downhill like last weekend.
He will defo be in hospital until saturday, then if he is ok he will come home until monday morning and be re-admitted. I'm just hoping that he doesn't need to be an in patient over the weekend as the surgery is closed so he'd have to go to Vet's Now which would be terrible. Maybe they can give him a big sub cut on saturday when he is discharged, we'll see. I lay on the floor and cuddled him though so his morale is better.
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So sorry about the results Kate. Just try to take it a day at a time, hard I know, he may pull round and he does seem to be doing better than you expected whilst in hospital. Big hug to you all :hug:
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:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: Everything crossed for a big improvement soon.
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Sending lots of good wishes for Max :hug:
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Sending lots of get well wishes and mega healing vibes for Max :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Adding gentle Purrs from Paddy and a gentle hug from me. :hug: :hug:
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Fingers crossed the vet can find something that works - if he is thinking acute rather than chronic, there is more of a chance of recovery.
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does anyone know of any drugs for acute? The vet is treating with the drip and last week sub cuts as says fluids is the only thing to do as there is no option of dialysis. I know a friend's sister had acute kidney failure and had cortico steroids but obviously that's a person. Why I'm so scared is he had sub cuts last week and of course is now on a drip and the numbers still went up. I'm going in to see Max shortly for a quick visit, to see if I can get him to eat. Then will go in properly this afternoon.
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Your vet should give him the right drugs for his condition so I wouldnt worry too much about that, hope he's nice and perky when you go visit today, give him a cuddle from me please :hug:
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oh Kate, more love and hugs from us :hug: :hug: :hug:
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thanks :hug:
He was quite perky and had a purr. He wouldn't eat any i/d but it was yesterday's can (i should know better!) but he ate a little Applaws. I think they are repeating the in house test every day. I took him the fleece blanket off the futon bed and he was lying on that when I left. We miss him so much, he always has so much to say in lots of different voices (some cute, some dreadful). He's been put on Kaminox. Also, he wasn't on the drip as the bag was empty but they were waiting to see what the vet wants him on before refilling it. He seemed pleased to see me though. I was certainly pleased to see him.
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Sounds like he's feeling not too bad. Hope it continues and he can come home soon :hug:
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does anyone know of any drugs for acute? The vet is treating with the drip and last week sub cuts as says fluids is the only thing to do
Kate have a look at the info on acute on the feline crf site, there are links to papers as well so there might be something on there that will be useful. http://www.felinecrf.org/links_and_resources.htm#acute_renal_failure . From what I've read, coming through the initial crisis, which Max has done, despite having still very high kidney values, brings hope of full recovery of most or all renal function, although it does say some cats are left with CRF.
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Sending lots of vibes for Max :hug:
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When I visited Max this evening I asked the vet if it was acute or chronic and he said a flare up of CRF caused by the blockage. I didn't get to ask him all the questions but it was so good to see Max, he sat on my lap and got combed for an hour, then he ate nearly a whole little can of Applaws. They were trying to get him to eat Purina NF so I told them if they want to try renal, at least try k/d as he knows that one. If all goes to plan, he will be discharged at noon on saturday with a big dose of sub cut fluids, then possibly re-admitted next week. No-one is there on sunday. Tomorrow he will have bloods done again in house so we can compare them with yesterday's nasty readings. He is doing well on the IV, just what happens when he comes off. I am trying to be positive. At least he seems to be coping better with hospital than I thought but he does enjoy a visit and a good cuddle.
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Try to stay positive, hope things are better with the results tomorrow and the little man can stay at home after the weekend.
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Cats do so much better when their slaves visit them and hope that Max is showing some improvement with his results........lots of cuddles to him :hug:
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Big snuggley PPprrrrffpppppttts! for you and the lovely boys this morning. :hug:
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:hug: :hug:
give Max a gentle :care: from Me
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Good luck for todays bloods, I do hope they have come down.
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Max was nervy this morning as a very cute kitten had been put in the cage above him and was miaowing a lot. The kitten is in for the night :( Anyhow he did manage a purr when I cuddled him and he ate a tiny bit of i/d, having pretty much refused the renal food they offered him. I didn't want to stuff him with Applaws as he is due to have more bloods later and I don't want them to affect the result. He had a good complain when I left too. Max hates any other animals so not sure how he's going to get on tonight. The kitten's in for neutering and his owner can't fetch him until tomorrow so it's upsetting as it's not really that he's even sick.
His other neighbour is terribly ill with diabetes and makes no noise at all, poor little thing.
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He is coping fine Kate, you didn't think he would cope at all and he has. The kitten will settle and be gone tomorrow. Hopefully Max will be home tomorrow and hopefully too his results will be better today. Hour by hour :hug:
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this is a pic from late last year when he was fat, healthy and happy
(http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l424/oldbrebis/IMG_4064.jpg)
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Lovely photograph Kate. Aren't we all extremely lucky that these beautiful cats of ours give us so much pleasure, for which ultimately we all have to endure the unendurable. A price worth the asking. :hug:
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Aw what a scrummy boy he is! :drool;
Good Luck for the bloods! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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Aww bless him, lovely photo. :Luv:
I think the kitten will stop crying and settles and hopefully Max comes home tomorrow. :hug:
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Max almost went to sleep on me during my visit this evening. He won't eat much, which is the main concern, but his blood results are a little better, especially the creatinine which is now in the 300s. His urea is 17.
I didn't see the vet (too busy) but we are fetching him home, all being well, at 12 tomorrow and deep breath that he will eat and not deteriorate. I think he will have sub cut fluids before he comes home. I took a mobile photo of him which I may work out (sometime!) how to post. He was in quite a good mood and purring, just seemed fatigued. I think he needs to eat more but not sure what as what he always ate before was dry food and only a tiny bit of wet. I'm scared he will block again if I let him eat dry food. He just seemed not to have much energy and had wrapped himself up totally in his blanket (not visible when I got there, bless him). The kitten is only now really waking up. His only other neighbour is very poorly, poor boy.
I told him everyone sent him such good vibes :hug: to you all.
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needs to eat more but not sure what as what he always ate before was dry food and only a tiny bit of wet. I'm scared he will block again if I let him eat dry food.
That sounds really positive his creat/urea have come down :hug: lets hope it stays that way. That photo you posted earlier is brill :Luv:
What does the vet recommend food wise?
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I'll ask the vet tomorrow. He fixates on renal food, which Max doesn't like. I know he'd eat sardines, tuna that kind of thing, but it's not good for urinary tracts and I can't do anything which brings back a blockage. I'm hoping he will eat a bit of i/d, Applaws and...?? I wish I could find something he really liked.
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The reduction in the results sound very positive and hope he continues his improvement. That picture is lovely ;D
I wouldnt be worried about him being tired because he has been through a lot recently and its the bodies way of trying to cope :hug:
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So pleased his results are better -really hope everything goes okay when he comes home .
The picture of him is beautiful , such a handsome boy :Luv2: :Luv2: :Luv2:
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We have someone coming today to stay tonight, but I will defo post later when he is home. The appointment is for 12 so he should be home by 12.45!
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this is a pic from late last year when he was fat, healthy and happy
(http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l424/oldbrebis/IMG_4064.jpg)
OOOOOOOOOO I feel a tummy raspberry coming on PPPPPPPrrrrrrrLLLLLLLLLLL ;D What a fantastic tum he has xxxxx
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Hoping that all went to plan and he is now home? :Luv: :hug:
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Hope hes home with you all and that things have improved :hug: :hug:
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I'm glad he's home ;D Lots of hugs for Maxy :hug: :hug: :hug: and some for Swampy too so that he doesn't feel left out :hug: :hug: :hug:
Kate, almo nature do a senior food - dont' know whether that might be more suitable for a CRF cat than the standard applaws/almo nature? Think I might have a tin in so will try to see whether it is complete or complementary. It's not the same texture as the normal stuff but more minced. And contains carrots :shify:
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Hope he is now home and feeling better:)
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Max is safely home but he won't really eat. Since he's got home he's eaten about 1/4 of one of those tiny Applaws chicken tins and recently ate 1/8th little tin of senior chicken pate, that's all. No interest in fresh chicken either. It's going to be really difficult. He seems happy to be home and he and Swampy were curled up together in no time. But please send vibes and prayers that he will improve and eat something.
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Sending all the loving vibes we can muster, Kate. :hug:
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and from me too :hug:
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Sending lots of positive vibes to Max. :hug: :hug:
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Tons of positive vibes coming Max,s way and hugs for you and Swampy :hug: :hug:
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Oh yet another stressful time for you all round! :hug:
C'mon Max....eat your food it will make you feel much better! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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Pleased he is home and snuggling with his mate ;D
Maybe when he destresses a bit he will eat something :hug: :hug:
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So pleased he is home and snuggling up with Swampy .
Hope he eats more tonight and tomorrow.
Topping up the healing vibes for Swampy and Max and also eating vibes for Max. :hug: :hug:
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I'm glad he's home ;D Lots of hugs for Maxy :hug: :hug: :hug: and some for Swampy too so that he doesn't feel left out :hug: :hug: :hug:
Kate, almo nature do a senior food - dont' know whether that might be more suitable for a CRF cat than the standard applaws/almo nature? Think I might have a tin in so will try to see whether it is complete or complementary. It's not the same texture as the normal stuff but more minced. And contains carrots :shify:
He ate a teeny bit of senior chicken pate at 3.30am after much coaxing and a tiny nibble of chicken breast Applaws this morning. He is not unhappy but he'll weaken if he doesn't eat more soon. Sorry, don't know what almo nature is please? Where do you get it? Anything is worth a try. He's not allowed fishy stuff though. This morning at 5 he came to sit on my head and have a purr so he is destressing. He and Swampy had a lovely eyebrow nuzzle too. I have to keep his fluids up- his appointment is only 5.30pm monday, unless it's urgent - and try to get him to eat. It's not just that he feels a bit sick, but his food has been changed suddenly, from dry to wet and he's completely gone off his turkey food that he loved. Wont' touch a drop.
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Is he drinking? Little and often with the food I would suggest, just a spoonful every hour or so to at least get something in him. THese cats sure know how to stress us out don't they? :hug:
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Almo nature is like applaws - same kind of thing - chicken with cheese, pumpkin etc and it is flaked chicken in broth. They do more varieties than applaws. The senior is, like I said, more minced and contains egg and carrot. It says complete on the tin but there is no mention of added minerals so I would treat it as complementary. I thought that if Max likes the applaws he might like that, and I'd guess the senior version might be better for the kidney probs.
I have a small tin in so if you pm me your address I will send you that tin to see if Max shows any interest in it.
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Kate, it might be worth giving him small amounts of dry food, even if it isn't good for his kidneys, as he has to eat. IF he has had sub-q fluids, it should help his hydration.
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Kate will he eat mince - like beef mince or turkey something like that? I agree with Des though, if dry is all he'll eat then better he has that than nothing - you can just make sure he keeps his liquids up with the subq's and maybe try a chicken broth with just the teensiest amount of liquid from something fishy to tempt him. :hug:
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I think zooplus sell almo nature .
Hope he starts to eat more soon. :hug: :hug: :hug:
www.almo-nature.co.uk - found this too .
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thanks, but the link goes to an error page (?). I've left out a little dry food but right now he's not interested in any food at all. He is just lying in bed. Sometimes he gets up for a drink or a wee and this morning he wanted to come and lie with me and purr, but since then he's been mostly asleep. Today's the first day without fluids for a week. I am getting very down about it all, I don't know what to try. I will try him with more Applaws this evening and maybe syringe yet more water into him, although that's only about 5mls. He is drinking a bit by himself. His wee is so foamy.
The vet isn't keen on periactin, I don't know why. He says it doesn't work for long either. Surely it can be taken every other day or every 3rd day - do you think it may work then? At least then he may eat a bit more every few days.
He still looks well and is on Kaminox too, but he's clearly not at all well.
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He might be just totally exhausted as he has been through an awful lot of stressful situations. Try not to make too much fuss around his food as this will make him anxious wont it? Keep persevering with anything he will like and once he is eating try the more suitable ones, maybe with a little dry added?
Try not to be too anxious Kate. Will PM you later as need to do some stuff
xxx
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Sorry -try www.zooplus.co.uk or www.seapets.co.uk. ( click on cats , then cat food -Almo nature is buy 10 get 2 free as well -pouches and tins )
Hope you find something he likes and he starts to eat more . :hug: :hug:
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Thinking of you all! :Luv: :grouphug:
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Morning Kate, how is Max doing this morning, have you managed to get him to eat anything yet,,my thoughts are with you and im sending lots of positive vibes for him and for Swampy and hugs for you :hug: :hug:
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Morning Kate, how's Max doing this morning? :hug:
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Hope his little Maxness is feeling better this morning after mega cuddles with Swampy. I am sending you loads of pos thoughts and hope he has eaten.
:hug:
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First up he ate a little chicken Applaws but then vomited it up, with some foam too. So we hugged him for an hour, then OH got him to eat a small plate of i/d. That will probably be all he'll eat until maybe tonight, he's just not interested. He's drinking a lot so I assume his kidneys are lousy. But at present his behaviour is ok. He is purring and still licking his own whiskers and moving to the bed to say hello occasionally if I am resting. But I tried to assist feed him a bit and I need practice (used my finger, not a stressy syringe).
He's never eaten when well and stressed, so being unwell is doubly difficult. Will see what the vet says later. I hope he is working today and it's not the locum and that he really applies his mind in a busy surgery to Max's eating problems. I don't know just how much is enough p.d. I don't know at what point sardines get given because they may be eaten, or whether I can hold out and he just eats 2 tiny plates of something chickeny a day and that is enough. Max is on kaminox for his amino acids and vitamins.
I need to remember to ask if cat milk (senior) is ok assuming Max would take it.
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Thinking of you and Max.
The pet shop near my place sells almo nature not sure if i have seen the senior one though but i can check, if you want i can get you few to try for Max. Let me know.
Hope the vet visit goes well. :hug: :hug:
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I think if Max is eating a little thats a start cos his tummy will not be used to food right now. You need to take it slowly and carefully now and lots or even a few little meals will be best for him.
I know Franta does not eat well bvut is getting more hungry for jelly cos he wont eat meat and then he eats biscuits which is only place he gets complete food..........unless the jelly has some completeness in it......sigh
Problem eaters are so hard but when a little food goes in and stays thats great ;D
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He ate a teeny bit himself today of i/d, then Applaws, then amazingly a teaspoon of k/d but a lot of food is being wasted and he just won't eat it. He saw the vet but only very quickly (quick sub cuts, not much) and had a laurabolin injection. I hope it improves his appetite. If all goes ok this week, he will have bloods again on friday, but right now that feels a long way off. The vet said he was looking good, which he is. It's just the vomiting (he has to have Pepcid) foamy stuff and the inappetance. So we just keep trying. Sardines are still banned though.
I had to wake him up to take him. I'd tried to express his bladder unsuccessfully (he sat in the pootray and purred!) but soon after that he did go, so must have been pressing in vaguely the right area.
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He might feel more like eating when the Pepcid gets to work. Hope so :hug:
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I'd tried to express his bladder unsuccessfully (he sat in the pootray and purred!)
Aw bless :Luv2: Sending lots of positive vibes for him to start eating soon. I think we all know how soul destroying it is when a cat wont eat.
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Sending some healing vibes for Max that he soon starts to eat again :hug:
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the food phobia is back tonight. He wouldn't touch the yoghurt pot, but jumped out of bed to get away from it. Only a teaspoon of Applaws, that's it. The laurabolin and the vet's visit seem to have made him feel worse. I don't know how much is nausea and how much is nerves. I am a bit at my wit's end to be honest. He comes to the kitchen and seemingly wants to eat, then refuses to touch anything. I will have to assist feed if he doesn't eat in the morning.
He hadn't wee'd since 4 so I pressed his bladder again and then he went to the tray, but I can't do that every time. He really isn't an easy patient is Max.
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I don't know how much is nausea and how much is nerves.
It does sound like nausea Kate, has the vet given him anything for that? Will he even eat his dry? :hug:
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You could even try soaking the dry food so it expands....anything is worth a go! :Luv: :hug:
C'mon Max you can do it! :Luv:
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Come on Max we are all willing you to eat for Mum :Luv: and Swampy needs you to get better as well :hug:
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The laurabolin hasn't had any effect that I can see. He came to the kitchen at 5am and ate about 3 dry pellets then stopped. So no he's not eating his dry. Then he did eat 1/2 little can Applaws at 7am so that may be it for the day. I tried some other food as he seemed 'maybe' interested but he had a lick and did his phobic food avoidance thing again.
The vet has told me to give him Pepcid for the nausea. He didn't suggest anything else. I am to give it mid morning and then try to feed him about 3 - 4 hours later. I don't want to freak him with assisted eating until it's absolutely necessary.
i will have to email the vet and hope he concentrates as he was too busy last night in surgery and the appointment wasn't a success. I am so worried. Max though DOES go on hunger strike when he's upset so I must keep him calm as much as possible in order to be sure how much is nausea and how much stress. I think probably 80% nausea but am not sure. He is very tense.
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Can you pill him Kate? I got Cerenia 16mg from my vet for my almost 18 yo Teddie (cat) They are for dogs and are being trialed on cats (you have to sign a concent form) I give her half a tab every other day and they are working a treat (she has not been sick in approx 6 weeks!) She also has kidney issues....anything is worth a go I suppose! :hug: :hug: :hug:
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I'll ask him, thanks. Is it for general inappetance and nausea or just vomiting as he's not vomiting much? I will send him the link I found on google too. Max miaowed a lot a short time ago and managed to eat about a teaspoon of Applaws but refused NF (he ate a little NF in hospital). It looks like he thinks about eating, then doesn't want to.
He turned his nose up at egg completely. I will try the cod tonight. Poor little boy is more subdued than yesterday so I think he is getting weaker but when I fuss and kiss him, he is purring nicely. Please keep the vibes and prayers coming for my little one. Unless we have an urgent situation (possible), he is due for more bloods on Friday. I don't know how long I can leave him eating under 1 little can of Applaws a day before I have to stress him out by assist feeding?
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I'm so sorry Max is still not eating. :hug: This is a bit of a long shot but I've read somewhere recently that failure to eat despite interest in food can be a sign of thiamine deficiency. Vitamin B is a water soluble vitamin so as he's been having a lot of fluids recently to flush his kidneys (and not much food) its possible he could be deficient. As I said, a long shot, but vitamin B is a non toxic vitamin so could be worth asking the vet whether he thinks it would help (they can give it by injection).
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Sorry Kate, my mistake the tablets are for vomitting! :shy:
Hope something can be found soon! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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thanks, I'll ask about vit B too. He may have had a jab while in hospital but if not, maybe he can have one or I can give him tablets. He ate a microscopic amount of Purely dry chicken, which I put out to see if it would tempt him (yes, but not much) and when I came home, one of them had eaten about a little square inch of NF. I weighed him and he is 5kgs. He was 5.3 in hospital. I've had classic FM on all afternoon to try to calm him down. I had to rub his tummy to get him to get up and wee, but he did a strong stream.
I've asked the vet about assisted feeding and when it would def be necessary as I want to do it only when he needs it as it will stress him out further.
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So sorry Max is still not eating Kate i wish i could think of something to help, will continue to send healing vibes for both Max and Swampy :hug:
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Have you tried changing his bowls, in case he has suddenly developed an aversion to it? Maybe raising his food bowl if he is nauseous? Do you have any SEB in? I would definitely ask teh vet how much food before assist feeding, and do make sure to tell him some of the food is complimentary, not complete as that might make it slightly different - the last thing you want is to risk liver issues. Have you tried him on A/D?
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thanks, I've emailed the vet but so far no reply. Max has decided to eat a little teeny bit of dry food (his old food, thanks for suggesting I leave it down Desley) but nothing else. He's gone off Applaws for the moment.
So last night I watched him and he came to the kitchen, put his head in the food bowls and then went 'naaaa'. I think he was hungry but just wouldn't eat. So I sat him on my lap and gave him a few teaspoons of watered down purina NF which is easy to spoon. He wasn't thrilled but he didn't really mind that much, although spilled quite a lot of it on me. This morning he did the same thing. Cry for food, then refuse it, so I did the NF thing again. It's renal food and presumably has quite a few calories? He had about 1/2 saucer of thinly spread out food this morning or about 10x back of little teaspoons. He had a little game with me afterwards where he snaps at my finger while I circle his mouth, and then he lay on me and purred so I think a bit of food made him feel better.
I couldn't wait to hear from the vet, but I think what I am doing is ok. At least he is eating something. He's had a few drinks and a wee by himself too and is now asleep. I have to give him Pepcid later.
The only thing is the longer I have to do this, the more resistant he is going to get. I give a bit, then cuddle him, then give a bit more, but try to get the whole thing done in 5 mins. I think the teaspoon or finger is easier than a syringe which would freak him. He hates a/d and NF is just as easy with water added. I suppose doing this 2 or 3x a day would give him enough and then we hope he starts eating alone again?
They don't make a small NF tin do they as it is enormous?
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So sorry to hear about Max, sending hugs and furry head-butts.
Hope he perks up and starts eating soon. :hug:
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he's not eating on his own at all. But at least I can control what he is eating I suppose (looking on the bright side?). He is assist fed NF renal. The tin is ridiculously huge though, he'll not get through it in 36 hours which is what it says you can keep it open for. He cleaned Swampy today so I hope the food is helping him to feel a little better. He is due for bloods on friday at 9am.
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Aww poor Max, I don't know what to suggest but I hope he starts eating soon :hug:
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I am sorry to hear Max isn't eating on his own but at least he is getting something from you feeding him. Big hugs and huge vibes coming your way x
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Do hope hes soon feeling better Youre stress levels must be sky high. :hug: xx
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Thinking of you all and sending tons of good vibes your way~~~~~~~ :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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Sending more good vibes for Max. :hug: :hug:
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Sending more good vibes for Max. :hug: :hug:
and from me too :hug:
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Im glad to hear your managing to get Max to eat from your fingers / spoon, hopefully with having a little bit of food he will begin to feel better and start to eat on his own, still sending those positive vibes for both the boys and hugs for you :hug: :hug:
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He is eating and thats what matters :hug: :hug:
I spent two years crawling around on my knees feeding Kocka, one lick and she would move but it was worth it to get her to eat.
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thanks everyone again :hug: Max is going in at 9 tomorrow to have some more bloods done. then we'll know what we are up against. He ate some dry food this morning and I will give him an assist feed of NF later on as the vet is very gloomy if he won't eat wet. So if he won't eat wet, he'll be given it. As long as he is happy in himself (which right now he is). I googled how to express a bladder last night as he isn't weeing too often - more than 8 hours - and he loved having his tummy squeezed gently but I didn't manage to express him, although he then did go by himself as it encouraged him. At one point he lay down in the (clean, luckily) litter tray purring while I was trying to express him!
Sweet little boy lay next to me for a couple of hours from 6am this morning until I got up. I have classic FM on all day for him too.
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Aw what a brilliant patient boy Max is! :Luv: :hug:
Good luck for his bloods! :wish:
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Hope the bloods come back and they are ok :hug:
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:hug: hope things go well xx
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Good luck with the results , hope they are much better :hug: :hug:
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He ate some dry food by himself a short while ago, but no wees since 10.30 this morning - when he went after I'd squeezed his tum for about 10 mins while he purred. I've been syringing water into him as all afternoon he's decided to sleep in his bed.
I am very nervous about tomorrow.
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He ate some dry food by himself a short while ago, but no wees since 10.30 this morning - when he went after I'd squeezed his tum for about 10 mins while he purred. I've been syringing water into him as all afternoon he's decided to sleep in his bed.
I am very nervous about tomorrow.
He is seeming to prefer the dry of his own accord....I would let some water saturate the dry (so it expands) and see if he is able to eat them like that! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
Thinking of you all! x
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Sending positive vibes for much improved blood results tomorrow :hug:
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Try to think positive Kate and we all are sending pos vibes that Max's bloods will show improvement. Will be thinking of you xxxx
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Fingers crossed for today - will you get the results back today?
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the lab results may be back tonight or else it will be next week. The in house ones are worse. Max's creatinine is up to 460 again. It was 340 when he was discharged and over 550 when admitted. The vet wants to put him on fortekor next week and I have a sub cut fluid kit and must read up how to do it. He showed me quickly but I want to get it right and need to work out how to measure the amount.
I am taking a urine sample down now as he couldn't express Max, but Max weed as soon as he got home. He also ate a normal dry food meal and he looks ok but the numbers say different.
I will pm later Chrissie, I am just so upset.
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..... He also ate a normal dry food meal and he looks ok..........................
Thats what matters. So the numbers show that he isn't OK but he doesn't know that and so long as he's eating again and behaving more or less normally and happily then you should try to be happy too. Not the same situation I know because Korky has chronic renal problems rather than acute, but last November his creatinine had shot up up to 413 from 290 in March and I was worried to death. Gradually, however, I realised that he was behaving much the same as before so I figured that if he could cope then I could too. His reading for March this year is up again (434) but apart from weeing more he isn't in any obvious distress. It looks as though Max's body might be learning to live its problems and if so thats good - not as good as overcoming the problems of course but a very positive sign. With the subcuts he could do well - lots of cats do :hug: :hug: .
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I think that makes a lot of sense - it wasn't so long ago we had none of these blood tests
we could only go by the way our cats looked and behaved - many lived to a good age without having any apparent serious disease, but it stands to reason a fair number must have had underlying problems
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I think that makes a lot of sense - it wasn't so long ago we had none of these blood tests
we could only go by the way our cats looked and behaved - many lived to a good age without having any apparent serious disease, but it stands to reason a fair number must have had underlying problems
Totally agree.
Sending Max lots of love....and of course Swampy ....and You kate xx
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thanks for the support, it means such a lot. Max hasn't eaten any more by himself since this morning but he's had 2 little assisted NF meals. He's also not drinking or weeing that much, so I must syringe more water into him. My previous kidney cats all drank and wee'd a lot so this is quite weird. He last went at 3 this afternoon. Today he's very sleepy but a short while ago he came over and sat on me and had a tummy rub and a purr.
I didn't get the official lab results today, maybe tomorrow, otherwise it will be after the weekend. I will treat 'the cat, not the numbers' as the CRF site says. Before he went into hospital he had a night where he howled all night, I think that is one way to tell when his creatinine goes even higher.
His little paw is still red where he had the drip in. I think he's licked it. Should I just leave it or is there anything I can put on it?
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His little paw is still red where he had the drip in. I think he's licked it. Should I just leave it or is there anything I can put on it?
Isseys are quite sore too but i dont think theres anything we can do kate :hug:
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How is Max doing today Kate ,is there any inprovement in his eating ,im still sending those healing vibes for him :hug:
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Hope Max has managed some food and liquids and had a pee today :hug:
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The vet rang with the lab bloods at 12 but we've been offline all day -a BT outage for half of southern England! Max's creatinine lab reading is 370 and his urea 17. He doesn't have much protein in his urine so won't be put on fortekor straight away. I'm still assist feeding NF 2 - 3 times per day but he did eat a dry meal this morning and he's drinking. We may try the sub cut fluids later on....poor Max as we've not done it before.
The vet says the creatinine reading isn't 'better' than his, just differently measured but it is less than the 440 when he was hospitalised, at least a bit. Max has been ok today, he hid in a box in the bedroom at one point when OH had the telly on loud though so he's still very nervy.
yes, please do keep sending him lots of vibes , thanks :hug:
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Topping up the positive vibes. Come on Max - you can do it :Luv2: :hug:
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Well it's quite a difference in the reading though isn't it? I think you are right to carry on as you are right now as he obviously seems to be responding in his own way, even managing to eat on his own sometimes. Hope he continues to do so and increases his self feeding rather than you having to do it. Hugs and vibes down the M1 xxx
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Poor little guy got his first sub cuts from me tonight. I think we need a little practice! Anyhow he didn't get much, probably less than 50mls as the vet said a golf ball size hump. Then we couldn't get the needle off!
Swampy may need some too so I'd better get better at it and fast.
He ate a little Applaws tonight but only very little but I think he's had enough (proper meal dry this am, 2 assist feed plates of NF) given that he doesn't do much all day, so will leave him peaceful until the morning when I hope he will eat some dry again.
As for his tray visits, he is due another tummy massage at about 11 to try to get him to wee. He just doesn't seem to want to go on his own. Don't think we got enough fluids down him to make a huge diff.
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Max wouldn't eat anything but a few teaspoons of Applaws this morning, which is very disappointing as the last 2 days he's eaten his dry first up, and quite well. His mood is ok but he's not at all hungry which is not a good sign. I assist fed him a plate of NF and he's had a good cuddle. I hope he'll feel better later as he got pepcid but it's a huge worry even when they are behaving ok but show no interest in food.
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C'mon Max you need something to eat! :Luv:
This must be an awful thing to have to go through Kate....I am thinking of you all and sending more positive vibes~~~~~~ :hug: :hug: :hug:
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I hope Max is feeling a bit better this afternoon. :hug:
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I do hope Max has managed to eat and wee by himself:)
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He did a wee without a tum rub this morning and ate off a hand held plate, but only about 1/4 of one of those tiny tins. So I will have to assist feed him later on too. He's so nervous, I don't know if he's nervous because he's feeling ill or he's not eating because he's just nervous. With Max it is so hard to tell. He looks ok and is playing and purring, but seems still food phobic. Last night I got him to eat a very little bit of chickeny junk food and he seems to have had a bit of a squishy reaction in the night, so his tum's not right. I'm going to try SEB, he's already on pepcid. It's very tricky.
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He is probably nervous because he has been in and out the vets, his mummy is sticking needles in him, she is feeding him differently and he knows she is worried. I think I would be nervous too. He seems to be doing well other than the eating phobia and the more you make of it the worse he will get sadly. I wish we could all just wave magic wands and our cats would behave perfectly. Mine would have to be a very big wand I am afraid. try to look at the positives here, he was really poorly when they took him in and kept him over so he is doing much better, even if he is not doing perfectly. He does manage to wee on his own sometimes and eat on his own. So those are good things. The lab results were not as high as the vets either. :hug: :hug:
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thanks xxx He's refused to eat on his own since this morning, when he ate about 1/4 of one of those 80g i/d cans in 2 meals. Since then have had to assist feed him. I think he'll need a tummy rub to get up and use the tray later too. Otherwise I expect he would go eventually but the idea is to rid his body of toxins every 8 - 9 hours tops, so that means tummy rubs. He loves them so I think it will become a habit. But he hates the assist feeding but is just fine 5 minutes later, so it's worth it for 5 - 10 minutes of irritation for him a day. I think the food in his tum helps him too. I wish it would change but I can't just leave him until he's so ravenous that he eats something as that would be dangerous. He could just not eat for a couple of days.
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Max is very squeaky today but won't eat. It may be nerves. As soon as he saw the kaminox dropper he ran upstairs. I'm going to have to assist feed him again later and hope he eats - last night he just relaxed and ate some dry although still needed his tum rub. Then he had a bit of a runny tum (v little) in the night, possibly from eating renal that he's not used to.
I may have to go away in June for 2 days and am stressing about leaving both of them.
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:hug: :hug: :hug: to you all! :Luv:
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Looks like I have to go away in mid June from sunday to tuesday night. :scared:
I just assist fed Max a plate of NF. It took 10 mins (of glaring at me like I'm an axe murderer) but a few mins later he was ok and purring again. Does anyone know if NF has more or fewer calories than RCR (which has fewer than Hills k/d but k/d's harder to assist feed)? NF comes in a huge tin, far too big to get down him in a single day.
Max is going in to the vets for more in house or possibly lab bloods tomorrow as the vet is concerned that he's not eating very often by himself. I know he's not at all well but there is a strong element of stress involved too, but he has to have assist feeds and regular bloods. For some reason the vet won't let me give him Zylkene.
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we're off to the vet for bloods at 10.15 this morning. Max ate by himself (a little dry) last evening, but nothing since. Plus he vomited up some foamy phlegm this morning and has to have his tum rubbed to go to wee. I have to keep him calm but he needs these vet checks :(
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Can you pill him Kate? I got Cerenia 16mg from my vet for my almost 18 yo Teddie (cat) They are for dogs and are being trialed on cats (you have to sign a concent form) I give her half a tab every other day and they are working a treat (she has not been sick in approx 6 weeks!) She also has kidney issues....anything is worth a go I suppose! :hug: :hug: :hug:
I have checked with the vets about these tabs and they are only travel sickness pills for dogs....they do control nausea also! Worth asking about now methinks!
Good Luck and big hugs for the man himself! :Luv: :hug:
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thanks! The vet said no for the moment, no drugs as Max's kidneys are still not working well and every drug puts extra strain. He may be put on fortekor but there's not much protein in his urine, but there is a bit of blood. Max has just been put on Istin, 1/8th a day, as his bp was a bit high so we have to wait a week or so on that and retest again. His urea was a bit down, in-house, but his creatinine still very high at 475 - last time it was 469. But he's eaten today, dry food only, and his mood seems all right so we just take it one day at a time.
If he starts deteriorating or howling again, I'll take him straight back in. I feel a bit flat and tired. Swampy was very senior and had me up for an hour at 4.30am and then as Max was eating I suppose I hoped his results would be better and they aren't.
Tonight he's going to get stressed as OH will be shouting at the TV with the football on :Crazy: Longer term, if his kidneys stabilise, Max will have sub cuts and also possibly some kind of calming anti depressant, but he's not allowed anything but Istin yet. He's so sweet and freezes when he's being treated (so is easy to treat). I'm not going to assist feed him much if at all today as he ate his dry and he's not dehydrated.
Sorry to go on about both my boys, but it really helps as I feel so tired and helpless as they get older.
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thanks! The vet said no for the moment, no drugs as Max's kidneys are still not working well and every drug puts extra strain. He may be put on fortekor but there's not much protein in his urine, but there is a bit of blood. Max has just been put on Istin, 1/8th a day, as his bp was a bit high so we have to wait a week or so on that and retest again. His urea was a bit down, in-house, but his creatinine still very high at 475 - last time it was 469. But he's eaten today, dry food only, and his mood seems all right so we just take it one day at a time.
If he starts deteriorating or howling again, I'll take him straight back in. I feel a bit flat and tired. Swampy was very senior and had me up for an hour at 4.30am and then as Max was eating I suppose I hoped his results would be better and they aren't.
Tonight he's going to get stressed as OH will be shouting at the TV with the football on :Crazy: Longer term, if his kidneys stabilise, Max will have sub cuts and also possibly some kind of calming anti depressant, but he's not allowed anything but Istin yet. He's so sweet and freezes when he's being treated (so is easy to treat). I'm not going to assist feed him much if at all today as he ate his dry and he's not dehydrated.
Sorry to go on about both my boys, but it really helps as I feel so tired and helpless as they get older.
I can understand that, I'm really against giving mine anything at all unless really, really necessary tbh, hugs to both Max and Swampy :hug:
Re: shouting at the TV, why do men have to do that? usually OH does it when I'm sat quiet reading or something and it nearly scares me out of my wits :evillaugh:
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Max came back for the 2nd half so maybe the Istin is working already ;D
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Fingers crossed its working and he can begin to eat again on his own, :hug:
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Finger crossed for Max, i hope Istin is making him feel better. :hug: :hug:
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He went 12 hours without a wee (much tummy rubbing at 5am = success) which is just not good as the toxins build up but I just could not get him to go at midnight no matter how much fun tum rubs he had.
This morning he's eaten a tiny bit of i/d, which is too high in phosphorus (0.85 - double renal food) but at least it's wet food. No sign of any interest in dry food today so far. I plan to give him an assist feed at lunchtime if he's not eaten and try to get some sub cut fluids into him this evening. He's behaving normally at least, so far.
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Finger's crossed that this med will do the trick! :Luv: :hug:
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I think he's a bit more subdued and maybe nervous on it but must give it time I suppose. His bp was only 210/220 at the vet despite him being terrified. I can't get him to eat much on his own although tonight he ate away at his Applaws for 2 mins, but when I looked in the bowl he'd not managed to pick much up (it seems quite tricky food to get in to his mouth). I have had to assist feed him twice today and if he won't eat later then maybe again. Plus since the Istin he is now only peeing every 11 hours or so and it's taking quite a tummy rub to get him to go.....help!
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I don't know what to suggest, you'd think he'd want to pee more, with the subQ's wouldnt you? Hope things improve with his eating and peeing :hug:
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very exciting news: he pee'd by himself this morning and cried for food. Then only ate a tiny bit of dry, teaspoon of Applaws and that was it but better than nothing. He's going to get lactulose today as he isn't pooing and the vet said to try a bit. He's been in a good mood too so far.
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very exciting news: he pee'd by himself this morning and cried for food. Then only ate a tiny bit of dry, teaspoon of Applaws and that was it but better than nothing. He's going to get lactulose today as he isn't pooing and the vet said to try a bit. He's been in a good mood too so far.
:cheer: :cheer: well done Max. Keep up the good work xx
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:yayyy: :yayyy: :yayyy: WTG Max :hug:
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That is wonderful , well done Max and Kate :hug:
I hope you all enjoy the sun and the good weather this weekend. :)
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Great news Max - keep it up :hug:
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He did another pee by himself today, but sadly still has to be assist fed as what he eats on his own wouldn't feed a little bird. Thanks for all the caring vibes and please do keep them coming for him :hug: I opened Max's mouth to give him a pill and noticed that his tongue is paler and has a slight blue tinge, or rather isn't as pink as normal. I presume that's the kidney disease?!
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Hi Kate just wondered how the boys were doing today, hope everything is okay :hug:
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Hi Kate just wondered how the boys were doing today, hope everything is okay :hug:
Ditto :hug:
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Mr Max has peed on his own but only eaten a very little so I've had to give him 2 plates of NF with a teaspoon, poor little guy. He got so upset with me as we did a little sub cuts earlier too and he does associate me with a wary look = what's she going to do now, as I have to give him Istin and Kaminox now too. But it's only a few minutes and it helps him, so have to do it. He wouldn't go outside, but rolled himself up on 'his' windowsill under the cushion and had a lovely long zzzz. He's now in bed with Swampy and seems calm and not too bad, thanks.
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Hope he is on the up Kate....at least he is getting something inside him and peeing on his own is fantastic! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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Glad to hear he is peeing by himself - what a relief that must be,. Hopefully he will soon start eating too:)
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no so he is going to see the locum today. He only will eat about 1 - 2 inches of food off the plate and was crying at 2.30am (normally sleeps well). I need to know if his kidneys are the same as last wed or if he's worse. My usual vet is ill so no guarantee he will be back on wed when Max had a scheduled blood test appointment. Max is now down to 5kgs as I just can't assist feed him too often and have to rely on him eating a bit himself - he did yesterday. He ate a tiny plate of i/d in 2 gos in the morning and 1/4 can of Applaws at midnight but nothing really to talk about today. He isn't dehydrated so it is all really odd and difficult. I am so scared that the locum will hospitalise him and he will deteriorate from stress.
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Good Luck with the locum today Kate....Hope the boy picks up! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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Hope all goes well at the vets today, fingers crossed and sending lots of positive vibes for Max :hug:
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Max's creatinine was over 600. He is in hospital on a drip again. The vet is gloomy as he is also pale, which I noticed on saturday and it's not long since he was discharged and his numbers can't stay down. I just can't stop crying as every time I go into the bedroom there's a little dent on the blue blanket where he was asleep this morning and he even attacked my finger in a little game, although he wouldn't eat. I promised him I'd bring him home but I couldn't do that. I must hold together for my Swampy but it's so hard. Swampy is crying a lot so I'm going to take him on the roof. I'll visit my Max boy at 4.30 for an hour or so.
Please send him and Swampy your vibes and prayers.
can anyone explain why he is so bad with his kidneys when his phosphorus is normal and he has minimal protein in his urine? It just doesn't seem like 'normal' CRF
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Poor poor Max and poor poor you and Swampy. I have no answers Kate but am sending every available positive thought and vibe I can for Max. Don't worry about the stress he was fine in hospital after his initial rumpus last time and it is the best place for him in the circumstances. Stay strong and as positive as you can we are all here for you and behind you and your babies as ever. xxxx :hug: :hug: :hug:
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I don't understand those results either sweetie :hug:
Sending lots more vibes to Max, hopefully being on the drip will help him again and bring his creatinine down again somehow. Hugs to Swampy as well, I'm sure he's wondering where his buddy is again this afternoon :hug: :hug:
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Im sorry i dont have the answer either, all i can do is send those positve vibes by the lorry load to Max and of course to Swampy, try to stay strong and positive, hes in the best place and im sure he will cope again :hug: :hug:
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Sorry that his creatinine is up so high again, it does sound like acute rather than chronic doesnt it? Hope the fluids can bring it down again and he can be stablised again. :hug:
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Max was very stressed when I arrived. They seem to have used the same paw and he'd got off the bandage and I think it is sore. The usual vet has bad flu but is supposed to check on Max tonight, so I hope he will be well enough to do so. I did manage to get some food down him, mostly a little fresh chicken and nearly 1/2 a small can of Applaws (stress eating basically I think) and put him in his bed with my best T shirt as I forgot his blanket when I went with all his meds. I also gave him his meds as it's a little less stressful for him if I do that. Plus pms they only have 1 nurse on duty. Tonight it was the young one who is also the least experienced. I am very worried. I didn't get to speak to the vet but I know that his bloods will be 500+ if they were 600 in house. It does sound acute to me as it's only a month ago that he was fine. The thing is whether the kidneys are so damaged that they can recover at 15 years old. I can't help wondering if he shouldn't be on abs or something too just in case it is being fueled by an infection, but I'm not a vet.
I'll go back and see him tomorrow. I told him that the lovely Purrs people had sent their love and he was physically alone but not alone at all. But he is sleeping or lying in his litter tray. The only time I've seen that is when I went (only once) to a cat show and the cats were all stressed and that's what they were doing. I must take his blankie tomorrow.
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Bless him, hope he has a good night and is feeling better tomorrow. Big hug for you xxx :hug: :hug:
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Sending Max lots of good vibes. :hug: :hug:
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lots of love to max :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Sending tons of positive healing vibes to Max~~~~~~ :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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Hoping Max improves.
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Hope poor Max is soon better :hug:
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I spoke to the vet today. She thinks that Max is in end stage CRf, kicked in by an acute episode and that too many of his nephrons have died so although he looks well, as soon as he is off the drip he will deteriorate over days or maybe weeks. But she thinks that it is worth treating him in hospital this week on a drip to give him every chance and he will be put on antibiotics just in case any infection is making it worse. I don't know how I managed to be calm but I was, but she thinks that we will bring our Maxi home and won't have long with him. It's not classic, gradual CRF where sub cuts will help a lot as the problem is controllable. She said that it's not right in her opinion to take a decision now as he should have this week's treatment because unless they biopsy (which they won't) they don't know for sure how much kidney function is left.
Max was fine a month ago. I don't think I can bear it, it's all too much with both boys.
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:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
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:hug: :hug: Try to hang on in there and see how he goes this week. Huge mountains of positive love and vibes coming your way and you know where I am if you need a chat Kate :hug: :hug:
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I'm keeping everything crossed for you all :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Sorry Kate - I don't know what to say. It must be so hard with both of them ill :hug:
Is your vet familiar with Rubenal? - it is supposed to help the Kidneys. This is the best description I could find on it.
I asked my vet the other week and he had never heard of it.
http://www.myonlinevet.co.uk/rubenal-75mg-x-60-tablets.html
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So sorry Kate, :hug: at least the fluids and antibiotics will give him a bit of a boost and buy you a bit of time to make your decision over the next week. :hug:
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:hug: oh dear it's hard to have to hear news like that, so sorry xx
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Sorry Kate to hear this news......Thinking of you all! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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:hug: :hug: Thinking of you and Max.
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Just popped on to top up the positive vibes for Maxy boy :hug:
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Oh Kate im so sorry, you must be devastated to hear this news :( i really dont know what to say except hang in there and try to stay calm and positive,im sending mega positive vibes for you all especially Max and of course Swampy :hug: :hug: :hug:
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thanks, bless all of you :hug: :hug:
Max was more stressed today. He had a dog in next door. They'd put a blanket over her cage as she's a snappy dog apparently but he wouldn't come out of his cage as it made him hiss and get stressy, so I just sat with him and sang to him and he had a good purr in there and ate a little chicken. One of the nurses has given him an old bed to sleep in and he has his blue blankie from home and my sleep T shirt. I wanted so much to hold him but had to make do with stroking him. He looked ok, really not bad at all. He just doesn't look terribly ill while in there. That makes it even harder.
there was also another dog singing loudly down the way. I hope there are no dogs in tomorrow as it really upsets him. I hope to go and see Max in the morning for a little bit then more later on in the afternoon.
Mark - I will defo ask the vet about Rubenal. The usual vet is back at work tomorrow, flu or no flu. I know they are wondering about fortekor (him and the locum) as it may be too late or alternatively it could help IF there is some kidney function left. They are of course guessing on the % left, but know it is very low.
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Fingers crossed the antibiotics make some difference and you can have some more time with him.
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It seems I'm fated to have cats that look fine but aren't. It is so odd. I just got told by the vet that it would help Max if he was a bit thinner - in a terrible CRF cat. He is eating in hospital and seems cheery this morning. Anyhow I got lots of purrs and his ginger neighbour up top isn't bothering him and it was quiet in there. I am going back after 4. What is so so hard to take is a cat doing so well on a drip and then refusing to eat and his numbers climbing as soon as he's off it, but of course he can't live in hospital.
The vet is putting Max on fortekor as he and the other vet said it could offer a slim hope if it works. I said ok because what can I do. We only spoke for a couple of mins between consults so I hope to chat more to him later on if possible. The urine culture came back with no infection but he suddenly has +++ blood in his urine because (probably) of his kidney failure.
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It's such a shame Max only does well in hospital. I hope the Fortekor will help him and maybe discuss the medication Mark suggested? Hope you have some quality time with him and that Swampy doesn't miss him too much. Hope, too, that you are managing to look after yourself, drinking your funny tea and getting some rest.
Big hugs and loads of postiive thoughts hurtling your way :hug: :hug: :hug:
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I didn't see the vet tonight but the young nurse told me he's now on fortekor. I'm nervous about that. Max was bright and happy and purred so sweetly for me. It is all so hard to believe when he is like that. We shared a yoghurt and it was just lovely to hold him and cuddle him for a while but I am so tired. Swampy is restless without him.
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:hug: :hug:
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:care: :grouphug:
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Im glad to hear Max is coping at the vets and pray he may continue to and that this new medication helps him :hug: :hug:
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He was stressed and hidden in his blue blankie this morning. No food in the cage so I assumed he was having bloods done, but apparently not so I left his chicken. They just don't want him overfed which is a bit odd and he ate a little Applaws at 8 today. I will try to handfeed him some fresh chicken later on, poor little boy. He has 2 cats in hospital with him. Archie who is lovely and ginger and quiet and another one who is noisy, so that could be what he's stressing about.
He'd also peed all over my t shirt so they are going to wash it and I'll take another in later on. I put my hand under the blanket and stroked his head and ears and was rewarded with a loud purr.
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:hug:
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Aw bless him....Please give him head rubs from our lot and me! :Luv: :hug:
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He was more subdued this afternoon. He didn't want to sit on my lap, but wanted to stay in his bed safe under his blankie and be stroked in there. He ate some fresh chicken that I took in for him and we shared a yoghurt, but I'm afraid he is either weakening or getting fed up with being in hospital. There weren't any dogs or noisy cats to stress him out but he just has hunkered down. I didn't see the vet at all today to talk about him. I wondered how quickly the fortekor spikes if it does as I suppose his second day on that , he could be feeling a few side effects. I was hoping they would recheck his bloods before starting it, but it seems that they'll only do so tomorrow. I just hate saying good night to him and can't wait to see him again tomorrow morning. Every second is special, I know that so many of you know how that feels.
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Sending Max lots of love ......and a :hug: for you Kate xx
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It is probably the FOrtekor. The vet told me it can make them a bit lethargic for the first few days. Big love and hugs to you all :hug:
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:hug: :hug: For you and Max. You are in my thoughts, i know how hard is to look after 2 sick cats. :(
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Really hoping he's feeling a little better tomorrow :hug:.
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me too. I feel so awful knowing that he is all alone and scared down there in the hospital, when there is probably not that much hope of him recovering. I just want him home and to cuddle him. I'm doing this though because the vets both say that it's his only hope and they think it is worth the try. Max is a cat that just loves cuddling right up to me while I hold his plump little pink, warm tum and purring softly and I miss that so terribly.
Tomorrow they will do bloods I think and that makes me nervous. Everything is so scary right now. I'll go in and see him and take him some more chicken in the morning. The nurses say he mostly eats at night or early in the morning, when he is alone. I think he must be so nervous poor little man.
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Sending lots of gentle snuzzles for Max this morning, Kate. Hoping you can coax a happy purr from your lovely boy today. :hug: :hug: :hug:
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I'm going to try to catch the vet between consults and ops this morning if I can leave Swampy ok. Max is apparently still under his blankie, hiding. If I CAN get away for even 10 mins, I may bother the nurses and ask to go in to see him twice I think. I presume he is coming home tomorrow but right now I just don't know anything.
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:hug: :hug: :hug: to you, Max and Swampy
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:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Love, huggles and positive vibes for Max and great big :hug: for you and Swampy.
You must be exhausted Hun - take care of yourself xxx
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Hope you managed to speak to the vet. It is so worrying and they must learn to realise how anxiety making it is for fur mummies. Hope Max has come out of hiding and hope if he comes home this weekend that you can manage his fluids and he does well. Big hug from Manchester xx
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I feel stressed just reading these posts, I cant comprehend how awful it must be for you with 2 cats that arnt well...... :care:
More positive vibes being sent Max's direction! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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Topping up those positive vibes that Max is feeling happier today and that you are able to bring him home, and please take care of yourself Kate as both the boys need you now and you need to try and get some rest or your going to make yourself ill :hug: :hug:
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thanks to all of you :hug:
I still didn't see the vet who had (apparently) only a 10 min break all day, but I must see him tomorrow. Max is being sent home. I can't help wondering if it was a tuesday or wed tomorrow if he wouldn't be kept in a little longer. Not too long obviously, but only a drip can bring his numbers down and if his kidney function is nearly all gone, surely the lowest nos to cope on his own the better. His creatinine is at 476 in house which probably means about 376 at the lab, which is still very high. He was brighter today and this afternoon he lay on my lap with his little head on my arm and had a little shut eye and purr, while I stroked his warm little tum (the hair's still not grown back), which was so lovely for me.
The locum said we had to do this properly to give him a chance. I don't know how long he should really be in for. The vet's plan is (acc to the nurse) to see how he is in a week. That is a long way off right now.
I've emailed him to say I'm sorry but Max is too ill for us not to chat to you tomorrow. It just adds to the upset and anxiety really.
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:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
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At least the creatinine has come down, I hope it can stay down when he's off the drip - will you be giving subQs at home too? Hope you get to see the vet tomorrow. :hug:
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:hug: :hug: :hug:
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:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: hope Max picks up and all his levels go down - lots of healing vibes to Max and Swampy and take care of yourself too .
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:grouphug: Thinking of you all! x
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Topping up with more get well vibes, hope his creatinine levels can stay down this time whilst not on the drip xxx
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Hope both your boys had a decent night and that Max can come home with you for the weekend at least. Hope you get to speak to your vet without having to resort to a sit in! Love and hugs and positive vibes to you all xxx :hug:
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Max is home and very glad to be. Because of the 5 day fluids, he's been as bright as a button, but then he was last time too. We did have a good chat and he is going back into hospital for a few days next week to try to get his numbers even lower, as they did come down nearly 180 points in 5 days and his coat, weight etc mean that there is some kidney function left, but just it isn't working. So the strategy is to keep his weight lower (if he weighed a kg less it would help) while still getting him to eat; try sub cuts daily and I am getting a special 50ml syringe with a long catheter type needle which is easier than a fluid bag (anyone used one?);
and frequent bloods to see how he is doing. The vet thinks he has a less than 50% chance at his age, he said maybe 30%, but it's important to feel that we have done all we can. He said it's worth another few days just in case (he doesn't know if it would help or not) also because Max so far has done all right in hospital. So if all is ok all weekend, he goes back in on monday at 11.30am. He could have stayed in all weekend but there would have been no visits at all, so we thought from 1pm saturday to 11.30am monday, please be all right as it's better for him.
I love seeing him the way he is today and just pray he can maintain that, even if it's not for long.
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Bless...Glad Max is home for the weekend, Im sure there is happiness all round! Hoping the time goes smoothly for you all and good luck getting his no.s down! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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Glad he is home and hope it goes ok for you all . Big hugs for Max :hug: :hug:
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Glad he's home and feeling perky - everything crossed that he can maintain that :hug: :hug:
Sorry if I've missed the explanation but I don't really understand why its so important to get his weight down though.
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apparently a skinny cat's dodgy kidneys cope better with less body weight. I got a full explanation but as usual just got the drift of it.
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He and I had a lovely cuddle for 2 hours under the duvet this morning. He is only eating a very little, mostly fresh chicken or Applaws, but I'm trying to relax about that as long as something is going in. He's drinking a lot. We have to do sub cuts later on so wish us luck. Trying to get 100mls or just under into him. I think I may mark the bag with a pen so that we can see as working it out from the size of the hump forming in him doesn't work too well (or at least I'm inept). He has peed on his own although sings loudly when he goes and scratches for minutes first, which he didn't do in hospital. He ate more in hospital too - stress related maybe? I'm just trying to make his sunday special as he has to go back into hospital at 11 tomorrow morning.
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Im glad to hear your night wasnt too bad with Max, i bet you enjoyed your cuddle this morning :Luv: im glad your also trying to keep relaxed with him ,im sure it makes all the difference to him and also Swampy and have a good day together :hug:
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Glad you had your wonderful cuddle. Hope the fluids go in ok and he stays feeling well. Big hug for a lovely Sunday together :hug:
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It's been good, thanks. I bought a new cushion 'dog' bed at PAH on sale and he's been fast asleep on that. We gave him some fluids (not enough: we are hopeless) and he's eaten a little chicken today. The hospital stay has made him so much better this weekend than last but of course it's if he can sustain it. But he had a game with me too. Only downsides which have been a worry are that he hid under the bed (when I got him out and cuddled him, he slept happily next to me, but I don't like the hiding) and he also came to the kitchen looking for food but then wouldn't eat it and then cried loudly. Both were things he did last weekend.
What was a bit sad for us was that we have a mad pigeon who thinks it's a good idea to fly into our bedroom window and sit on our mezzanine area (it cr*ps everywhere :sick:). I remember a time not so long ago when both Max and Swampy would have had lunch out of that fat pigeon. We showed Max who wasn't even interested.
I am very nervous about tomorrow and this week in general. If he can stay the way he is today it would be all right, but I don't really understand why, but sub cuts seem so much more feeble than a drip.
PS we got more fluids down him so almost 100mls today in 2 gos. He wasn't pleased by the second one particularly but he was yelling and these days we are never sure if it's toxins, hunger, feeling upset or what so we thought we'd better give as close to the recommended maximum dose as possible just in case.
Then taking off the needle I put it straight through my (pill giving) finger....I need more practice as it is just not as easy as it looks, even with 2 of us doing it.
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I would be useless Kate having to do that so I reckon you sell yourself short! :Luv: :hug:
Good vibes being sent to Max~~~~~~~ :hug:
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You have a lot to contend with at the moment but your doing great ;D so dont think otherwise, hope everything is okay this morning and good luck at the vets, sending positive vibes for the brave lad :hug:
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I echo what the others have said missus, don't knock yourself, you do so much for your fur babies - I would NEVER be able to do the fluids. Glad he has had an ok time and enjoyed his new bed. He is probably hiding from you so you wont stick a needle in him. Charlie runs in the opposite direction from me in case it's meds time. Hope things go ok this week, try to stay as positive as you can xxx :hug: :hug:
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I took baby Max in. I felt like an axe murderer as he was so happy to be home, but think it is necessary. Certainly he was a lot better at the weekend than he's been for a while so last week helped, even if it's only for a while, we'll see. But I was fed up as I starved him, effectively from 5.30 last evening, as he did nibble after that but sicked it up, then Swampy found the Applaws I'd left out in the night (!) so this morning Max fancied a little meal (he doesn't eat much any more) but I 'd been told he's having bloods so to fast him. Then I get there and no, he's not having bloods so now he'll have to eat what they give him in hospital. His little bed of last week has also been reclaimed by its rightful owner so lucky I bought that little PAH dog bed and I took in his spare blue blankie that smells of home. I'll go in later and spend 1 1/2 hours with him. If he becomes unhappy, we've decided that we will just bring him home and try the sub cuts until such time as he is not able to cope.
But fortekor takes at least 4 weeks to really kick in so the idea is to try as hard as possible to keep him going for a month so that we can see how much his existing kidney function can cope with. He can't be maintaining weight and coat looking good with zero kidney function but something has stopped them working somehow. His actual readings are apparently "moderate" (under 500 creatinine is moderate) but it's just they don't seem to stay there but keep climbing.
I just hope this is the right thing to do. I know with both my boys I have to do whatever I can to help them, no matter what. (I just hope the insurance pays btw as I am now clocking over £1500 :censored:). As it is, will have to find 35% of that even if they do. Of course last night I broke my rules on "no Max under the duvet" so I only got about an hour's kip as he kept on adjusting to a more comfy position! But at least he was happy.
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The vet was very bleak in his prognosis for Max. His creatinine went up 10 points from saturday lunchtime to today despite us giving him sub cuts. I wanted to bring him home tonight but the vet says it's not an exact science and he thinks another day or two would give Max a few really good days before he starts to go downhill. Max was fed up and stayed in his bed. If he is like that tomorrow I am going to bring him home. This is so hard
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See how he goes over the next couple of days Kate, if it gives him a chance to feel well for a while. You are all in my thoughts :hug: :hug:
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Please give Max head rubs from us all, give yourself big hugs and Swampy a cuddle too! Am thinking of you all! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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Max was a little happier this morning and sat on my lap and nearly took my fingers off with the few little bits of fresh chicken I'd taken in. I'm going back this afternoon as usual to spend longer with him. Looking at him, it is still so hard to believe.
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Well it is good that he is not feeling ill. I am glad he enjoyed his chicken and a cuddle with his mum :hug:
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Having just been through this all you are in my thoughts and prayers.
:hug:
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Aww this is sad :(
Sending Max stay happy vibes :)
:hug:
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More vibes for you all :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Max was calm and quite ok in hospital this afternoon. He does so well on that drip, looks like himself and you'd not know he was ill. I wish there was some way of keeping him as hydrated off it, but sub cuts just don't do it for some odd reason. None of it makes any sense, but we must just make his days as enjoyable as possible and keep getting fluids into him too. The vet is changing the bag from isotonic (I think) saline to ringers (the one to bring home) and is going to show me the syringe method of hydration as that can more easily be measured in theory anyhow. The American yahoo group on CRF seem to think that lactated ringers may sting a little less than the other bag so it may be easier.
I have to make the difficult decision on when to bring him home. If he is still happy enough tomorrow, like he was today, we may wait until thursday to do bloods and discharge him. I'm hoping against hope here.
thanks to everyone for all your good vibes and prayers for my baby Max.
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whatever happens when he comes home, I will always remember this afternoon. Max was in high spirits and sat on my lap, nibbled my earring and my forehead, played his favourite game with me, ate, purred and generally is feeling such a lot better. He is calm in hospital and I think enjoying the undivided attention, which is such a relief. He only gets stressed when he sees the vet (sensible!). I had a lovely visit with him. It just does make it so incredibly difficult though that he can be so well with the IV in him and then so grotty so quickly when he is home, but at least we had today and a huge love and cuddle.
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:hug:
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Oh Kate i am so glad your visit went well and Max was more relaxed. Sending more good vibes for Max. :hug:
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Ah how lovely, so glad you had a good day with Max, here's hoping you will have many more..... :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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here's hoping you will have many more.....
Seconded. :hug:
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Thirded:)
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Topping up with more good luck vibes for Max :hug:
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Topping up with more good luck vibes for Max :hug:
and from me too xx
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Sending lots of good wishes your way :hug: :hug: The Team are sending lots of purrs and headbutts to Max xxx
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Today's visit wasn't great at all. Max had dogs either side of him, so he was so stressed and I had to virtually climb into the cage and stick my head under his blue blankie and then I got a purr. I also couldn't stay long as had to come home to see to Swampy and try to put a drop in his blood filled eye.
Max looks like he is coming home on saturday. The vet said today (for the first time) that fluids for so long can impair the efficiency of kidney function, but being on them this long will bring down his creatinine, which if it is too high, is just going to be hopeless. So it's a tough call. He thinks one more day though is a good idea. I could see that he doesn't think either situation (coming home sooner or on IV longer) will make a big difference in the end, but lower nos won the day. I just hope it's the right call.
Max will have in house tests on saturday and then ones sent to the lab on monday or tuesday next week if he is all right until then. When I said he looked so well, he said sometimes cats just do, ones that don't have 'normal' gradual CRF. Plus there could be something wrong either with his kidneys or one of them, or with his heart (which would affect kidney function) which without scanning all of him (no way) we don't know about. It just does show how vet medicine and what is possible lags behind human medicine, although the care and attention Max gets is way above anything one of us would get from doctors isn't it.
I hope no dogs tomorrow and that Swampy is fine and I can have a restful, quiet visit with Max.
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Hope tomorrow's visit is better for both of you :hug: and that Max remains stable when he comes home on Saturday.
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Hope tomorrow's visit is better for both of you :hug: and that Max remains stable when he comes home on Saturday.
Ditto! :Luv: :hug:
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Adding my hopes to those of Gillian and Bazsmum, and all of us thinking about you and the boys. :hug: :hug:
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Sending lots of positive vibes for Max and hope he has a better day today and you also :hug:
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Max just had in house tests done. His creatinine is at 375 (probably 100 lower in the lab) and urea up to 19. The vet just warned me that he thinks Max is very ill despite the normal phosphorus readings and very low protein in his urine. We must just make the most of what time we do have with him.
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That's down a fair bit isn't it? Hope he has a good weekend is he home?
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Home tomorrow at about 12.30 I think, at the end of surgery. We are going to be shown how to do sub cuts with a syringe so we can measure his fluids exactly (theory!) twice a day. He needs to be home now. He's happy in there and eating and I just hope he will keep eating at home. He's only getting fresh chicken and chicken Applaws now - anything he likes basically.
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Here's hoping he manages to keep well when he gets home tomorrow....Thinking of you all! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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My Max is home. He's quite nervous poor little guy and is currently hiding in a cardboard box - but purrs when "discovered" and has eaten a bit of fresh chicken and had one of his horrible 1 minute wees.
His face is so white now and he looks older but he's glad to be home and had a lovely rub against the doormat.
The vet gave us 20ml syringes and seems to have changed his mind from giving him 100mls to now giving him 50mls a day - we think he was busy so will probably try to give him about 75 using the syringe and butterfly needle system, which looks just as hard as the other one but at least you have some idea how much you are giving him.
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I've been reading up and it does seem that 100mls per day is average for a cat with serious, end stage CRF whose numbers rise when not on IV. The vet did say 100mls initially but then he didn't have any 50mls syringes in stock today (busy saturday too & he doesn't keep them routinely as they are 'expensive': hey, I am paying here) and I'm unhappy that he told me Max must now have 50mls pd as don't think it's enough. He's been on a 500ml drip bag in 24 hours or so. I am going to email the vet to check but what is given on average? Is 100mls per day such a lot? I'm sure that is what Max had in the first week after his blockage before his numbers had been dropped on IV.
The vet just said today that a cat who needs 100mls a day hasn't got much of a future. But that's what he thinks for Max anyhow - he thinks he is end stage. I know when he was home before and we only gave about 30 - 40mls daily he didn't do well. I just don't think it was given enough thought again today, especially when he realised he only had 20mls syringes. All the american sites I can see use 100mls of lactated ringers (I asked for ringers, they didn't order them so I have got some fluids with potassium and lactic acid in as well as saline for Max). I am actually feeling anxious and angry now that he is home and I feel that the advice from thursday has been changed. The vet isn't at work now until tuesday either, which is a long time in Max's life.
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I don't know much about CRF and fluids Kate but would it hurt if he had more fluids than the vet said? Whatever, I hope he does ok and you can get enough into him. Positive vibes for a good result :hug:
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At the end of Maddy's CRF, I was giving her 150ml sub q per day.
Tiffy also was getting a similar amount in his end stage CRF
I really hope Max turns a corner.
:hug:
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thanks Philip. The vet emailed that I can give 100mls. I'll have to give it in 2 bits as only have two 20ml syringes (can get 25mls into them). I plan to get 50ml syringes asap.
Max is eating a bit and happy to be cuddled a lot but is miaowy. As he's always been vocal, it's hard to tell if it's from toxins or from just sounding off. Maybe both. It is freakish though as his coat is still good and shiny and he looks well (for the moment). I've found he will eat Hi Life petit pate cans, the little turkey and chicken complete food ones - can't remember where I got them. Does anyone know please where they sell them?
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Asda, Morrisons, Tesco all sell them, although Asda is the cheapest place. PAH and Morrisons also do mixed boxes of the pate, you get flavours you can't buy individually.
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They definitely have them in ASDA. It's the only way I can get my two to take tablets.
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thanks. I got him to eat a bit of the hi life turkey and giblets pate earlier but he wouldn't really eat this evening. He turned up his nose and walked away from the plate. I hope it's just that it's warm and he's not going downhill already.
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Sending lots of keep well vibes for Swampy and Max from us in Lincoln.
It maybe the hot weather why he isn''t eating much -Winston didn''t eat anything only a handful of biscuits until tonight and then he has only had a bowl of prawns , all the others didn''t eat much till tonight either .
Hope you have a better week with them both - :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: to all of you.
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Some of my kitties have not been eating as much in the heat so I hope this was just a case of that!
More positive vibes being sent to Max and yourself! :Luv: :hug:
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He's not eating much but at least he feels a bit better after his fluids. This morning he had a little lick and bite at the catnip banana and was quite perky for a bit. He's due more bloods on wednesday. He does suddenly look a lot older though, especially in his face which is quite white. Although I'm afraid of the blood results, we will treat him as he is, not the blood results. Anyhow he is enjoying having a good fuss made of him a lot of the time but for us it is heartbreaking. It's also funny as he doesn't appear dehydrated and his coat is shiny and he's still at 4.9kgs after his week in hospital, so something has gone wrong with the functioning of his kidneys that isn't classic CRF.
He and Swampy had a 5 second paw bat in bed this morning after his fluids.
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Idiot mum here broke the bag tonight. (which takes doing). I was taking out the needle after we'd filled the syringe and Saleem squeezed the bag and the needle flicked it and pop - a little hole. So Max got less fluids than he should have and I have to work out how on earth I am going to do his fluids in the morning. I can go and get another bag but it's really a 2 person job. I don't want to take him back to the vet unless I have to and anyhow he is going back on wed morning for bloods. I know they won't do any fluids until after 11.30 tomorrow which is a bit long. Wish me luck, trying to do them by myself (may have to glue Maxy's little feet to the spot!).
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New bag and I did the sub cuts (2 syringes) by myself this morning. The vet's nurse showed me a trick or two that the vet hadn't, which is great. Max is normally an easy patient but he did move, so thank goodness i had the butterfly needle and could follow him. He then lay down on the futon so the rest was easy. He enjoyed the massage afterwards and then ate a small plate of food. It def makes him feel better.
Tomorrow is his bloods. They only had an appointment at 9.40. I know I can't feed him but not sure if I can give him his fluids first at 7.30 or if that mucks up the reading too? He is going to yell if he is feeling ok and there's no food.
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Glad that you're managing with the fluids hun, and that Max is being a good boy for you.
Best of luck with tomorrows bloods, will be keeping everything crossed for you :hug: xx
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I bet you are feeling a lot better in yourself knowing that you are doing the sub cuts correctly! :hug:
Good Luck for tomorrows results! ;)
Big head rub for Max x
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Well done on managing the subs on your own,i bet your feeling tons better now and im sure Max will benefit from them, Good luck for tomorrow with the bloods :hug: :hug:
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I'm a bit annoyed as the supplier would only sell the vet a whole box of 50ml syringes, which I have to buy. There are 40 in the box! It is easier with a syringe than the bag-giving set method but still. I am a bit perplexed as to why they can't supply other clients with CRF cats with some of them. Max is hardly the only CRF cat around.
Thanks for the vibes as I am very nervous about tomorrow.
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I'm a bit annoyed as the supplier would only sell the vet a whole box of 50ml syringes, which I have to buy. There are 40 in the box! It is easier with a syringe than the bag-giving set method but still. I am a bit perplexed as to why they can't supply other clients with CRF cats with some of them. Max is hardly the only CRF cat around.
Thanks for the vibes as I am very nervous about tomorrow.
Yes, I reckon its easier with syringe - I didnt try the other method, but looking at the demos I decided syringe would be better. Thats a bit much about the syringes! Hope the bloods go ok tomorrow. :hug:
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Poor Max, hope everything goes well tomorrow will be thinking of you and sending positive vibes. :hug:
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Annoying about the syringes Kate, but glad that you've found the way the nurse showed you to be a bit easier. i still think you have the heart of a lion to do this. :hug: :hug:
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Good luck for his bloods
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I didn't actually have an appointment it seems. I just arrived and they took Max off for his bloods. I will speak to the vet later on this afternoon about it all. The nurse said they took enough blood to send to the lab too if necessary.
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Max's creatinine has gone up from 386 on Friday in hospital on a drip to 459 today with sub cuts. The vet says it looks like he may have a week or less and then we have to decide if we put him back in hospital on a drip or not. The only doubt is he keeps saying that if Max could lose some muscle mass or weight in 2 - 3 months, then he may stabilise on sub cuts. So there's a theory about possibly supporting his kidney function with IV for 2 months, in and out of hospital and then he may live for up to a year. I don't understand why he does so well on IV fluids but we are losing him at home on sub cuts. But I'm doing 75 - 100mls twice a day now at home, up from 50. At his current levels he feels well and is playing and active, but once he gets to about 600 (in house: lab 500) he is clearly feeling ill.
Max ate well when he got back but is now miaowing for food but I'm not allowed to feed him until later on as over feeding will accelerate his decline. I don't have to tell you I just feel desperate.
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Im glad that Max is feeling well at the moment but how heart wrenching to know that giving him extra food when he is obviously hungry will assist in his decline! :scared: :Crazy:
More positive vibes for you and your brave men.... :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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there just seems no hope. I am trying not to cry as he went to hide under the bed, but I can't not. The vet can't explain why Max does so well in hospital but deteriorates so rapidly on sub cut fluids.
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What a terrible situation Kate. I suppose the best you can hope for is the weight loss and the in and out of hospital option if you think he will cope with it. My thoughts and love are with you. I know you will do whatever is best for your lovely little boy :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Vet is due tomorrow to see Swampy's eye. I must pin him down on how much hope the weight loss option may give Max. The vet's very good, but he tends to change his mind from one day to the next sometimes on advice.
He said the problem is we are also possibly in a situation that he's not seen too often, in that he doesn't have any other clients who are prepared to nurse their cats 24/7 to maintain quality of life. He said most people would just wait for Max to feel ill and with the high numbers and his age (15 1/2) would pts.
I must TRY to be calm tomorrow and not just deal with Swampy's troubles - which he now thinks could go on for a month or two but the drops must only be every other day as otherwise they will cause problems - but get a proper discussion with him face to face about our options, if there really are any. I must also treat Max as he is feeling each day on sub cuts, not just the numbers I know, but I can only nurse him if he has quality of life. Today he does.
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Just ditto all the love and good vibes on her and a big :hug:
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Oh sweetie, no one should have to endure what you and your lovely boys are going through - it is so unfair and you must be exhausted. :hug: take care of yourself xxx
Sending love, huggles and positive vibes for both of your lovely boys xxx
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Sorry to hear those numbers have risen so high again, I think the IV fluids at the vets a pretty much constant so are supporting the kidneys much more than with sub cuts where that 100ml a day just isnt sufficient to sustain them. This is how it got with my Suzie, she had IV fluids at the vets and came home with me doing sub cuts, but there came a point with her that sub cuts just werent enough. I chose not to take her back for IV fluids because she had PKD and nothing in the world was really going to make that much of a difference ultimately, due to the quantity and size of the cysts, and also I couldnt face bringing her home and having her go downhill again. :hug:
I'm so sorry about your two sick boys, it must be hard to know which way to turn. :hug:
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just a few recent photos, mostly taken with my mobile so not great quality but I love them all the same
this one taken in hospital. Some kind person let Max use her cat's bed while in there
(http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l424/oldbrebis/Maxlionfacejune16.jpg)
then at home a short while ago in his favourite spot (where he hopes in vain for sun!)
(http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l424/oldbrebis/MaxonwindowledgeJune17.jpg)
and where he launched a vicious and unprovoked attack on his mum's finger when she ticked his nose
we call this game "piranha" and he's played it with me since he was a teeny kitten
(http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l424/oldbrebis/Maxthepiranha17june.jpg)
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Awww bless him :Luv2: I always think its really hard to accept they have health problems, when they always look happy and healthy :hug:
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just one more, from before he was ill. The only diff you can see is that he is much less white around the muzzle, but he's not lost weight and his coat is still very good. I think it is definitely easier when they "look ill" if you know what I mean.
(http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l424/oldbrebis/MaxSheeshandtoy.jpg)
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Bless him Kate he is beautiful :hug: :hug:
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Beautiful pictures of a beautiful boy! :blow kiss: :grouphug:
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I am sorry his values are rising again, but I wouldnt put him on a diet or keep putting him on a drip in the hospital, I think this is a quality over quantity, both those will give him the quantity, but they will impact on his quality of life, he might get an extra year but he will be unhappy cos his food is restricted and you might not see as much of him as he will be at the vets so much on a drip, and if the diet doesnt slow things down, you will feel even worse at putting him through the stress for nothing, and ultimately CRF isn't cureable, only manageable, and there is only so much we can do for them - plus the stress of constantly going to the vets and having his food restricted might speed things up anyway. I agree it is easier when they look ill though.
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I am just going to take it day by day and give him more fluids - it's up to 150mls, I give it 3x a day as he doesn' t mind and I'm getting better at it with the syringe (easier than the giving set by miles). This morning he didn't flinch at the needle and purred at the massage he got. Then he ate a little and I saw him in the passage batting a paw at something that had fallen on the ground.
I would not consider constant hospitalisation. I would consider occasional or intermittent if he had most of his time at home and feeling well. I am not going to decide that yet. I am really tired as the stress makes it hard to sleep even when the boys are themselves sleeping.
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:care: :grouphug:
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Hi Kate, just topping up with some more :hug: for you and Max :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Good luck Kate & Max :hug:
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It's become clear to me that the lack of availability of 50ml syringes and the vague notion of how much fluids could stabilise Max at home means that in my vet's practice it's probably not that many clients who are doing sub cuts at home. Perhaps London is like that, people just don't have time or think they don't. The syringe method is so much easier and quicker than the giving set method. The whole thing takes us 5 minutes.
Max is now on 150mls a day, given in 3 doses when it's absorbed. He had a good night, ate Applaws at 2.30am (I now have 2 noctural eaters :Crazy:) and then again at 6.30 and finished the little can after his 75mls this morning, which was quite quickly absorbed again. He is peeing more often at present too. I have no idea how long this is sustainable for or even if it's good for him, but nothing is worse than leaving him without fluids and just seeing him unhappy. This morning he purred away and had a little bat at his catnip banana. It's not even a week since he left hospital of course and I am realistic about everything.
Btw I read on Tanya's CRF site that lactated ringers sting less maybe than saline so we switched from saline to Hartmann's 11 solution (saline, potassium, lactic acid...I think). Has anyone else who did sub cuts used this one instead? I hope it is ok to use so much of it rather than the straight saline.
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The vet I use specialises in cats and I only used Lactated ringers solution on her reccomendation. It is better than saline that contains sodium.
Hartrmans may sting more I have been told.
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Such a handsome chap, hope he stays OK :shy:
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The vet I use specialises in cats and I only used Lactated ringers solution on her reccomendation. It is better than saline that contains sodium.
Hartrmans may sting more I have been told.
My vet only has Hartmann's 11 (sodium lactate, potassium chloride, sodium chloride, calcium chloride dihydrate, sodium lactate) or else the drip saline solution. I asked for lactated ringers but this is the choice I was given. So is it a third, separate option please? I am definitely going to ask for it. The CRF yahoo group (american) all use lactated ringers. So is there no or much reduced sodium in the ringers? Thanks Philip.
Max had 75mls this morning and his body just drank it in but he then ate nearly a whole little can of Applaws chicken breast. At present he is just eating early mornings then not really again but at least he is eating.
The vets told me that the needles can be re-used once or twice if run under boiling water (or first surgical spirit, then water as the spirit would sting) but I'm not sure, even though the butterfly needles aren't cheap. The nurse said the risk of infection sub cutaneously and always in the same cat is very low - what do you think? I would rather spend £5 a day on Max's needles than risk it I think.
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I draw up with one needle. Swap and inject with another or a butterfly. Then wipe the injection port with an alcohol wipe and re use the first needle to draw up from the bag and swap again to the other needle to inject.
My vet felt saline wasn't the best choice for CRF due to the sodium content.
This is my vets recommendation. None of my CRF cats ever got an infection using that method so thats what I would suggest to you.
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Many thanks Philip. I haven't started it yet as am using the end of the Hartmann's bag and am then going to switch. However the sodium seems higher on the lactated ringers I got than the Hartmann's according to the bag (sodium 147 Aqupharm 9 bag and 131 Aqupharm Hartmann's). I know they use ringers in the USA as say it stings less, but now I'm a bit muddled as to which is right if sodium's so important. My vet only has 1 other patient on fluids and they aren't daily either.
I've started using the surgical spirit to disinfect the rubber port and the fluid drawing needle and I don't change that needle often. But I've decided not to use the butterfly needle more than twice. I do disinfect it with spirit, then wash it in boiling running water as the nurse suggested, but it seems to get blunter. Each needle costs £1.40 or something but it's a small price to pay for Max's comfort. He really is getting a lot of fluids and is absorbing them quickly - 60 - 70mls in the morning only leaves a hump for a short time, a 40ml injection leaves almost no hump, but today he has eaten a can of Applaws, had a play with me and is moving around normally so that is good. He is quite miaowy at times so I think that his numbers are probably not good, but he is happy in himself which is what we are trying to do for as long as possible. His weight is stable and his coat's good.
Then again the lactulose still hasn't worked. He didn't poo in hospital, then did a proper one on wednesday and not since, despite the fluids and eating a little can daily. I gave him 1.7mls lactulose last night and so far no result. I know Applaws has zero fibre but I suppose he should go at some point so I will have to regive the lactulose in 1.7 - 2ml doses until he does.
Do you think twice a week is ok? I'm just trying to keep him comfy. He seems to have gone off Hi life cat food which presumably has some fibre in it.
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lactulose takes a few days to work.
I would reccomend liquid paraffin as I had much better results with that than lactulose which is in essence. sugary syrup.
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what dose do you use of liquid paraffin please? I'll have to try that if lactulose doesn't work very soon. I don't want to give him too much as he is not eating a great deal but I think he must be feeling a bit off from not going.
I have noticed a slight increase in his anxiety this afternoon and evening - he's never been a relaxed cat anyhow - like if the telly is loud, he gets upset, leaves the room and hides. He does respond well to being made a fuss of though. I'm feeling quite anxious as one day at a time is quite stressful with kidney failure. I wake up in the night wondering if he is ok and will be ok today and so on.
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I gave 5 mls twice daily via a small syringe.
Lactulose didn't work at all with Tiffy but Liquid paraffin was great.
It softens the stool so allowing the cat to pass it more easily.
You will find as the disease progresses, that its easy to get so caught up in it all that you feel completely washed out.
Sometimes monitoring the cat minute by minute.
In end stage renal failure the nursing care can become really intense so take care of yourself.
It can be so easy to get focused on the CRF and forget to just sometimes enjoy just being with them.
I had 2 years with Tiffy after he was diagnosed with CRF. Just 2 months with my lovely Maddy.
As long as max keeps having more good days than bad and the intervention he needs isn't so intense that he resents it and you feel its cruel to continue then you are doing the right thing. I developed such a close bond with my CRF cats through all the feeding and sub q fluids and by the huge amount of time I spent with them. Its clear you have such a special bond with Max too.
I do hope you still have a long time still together.
I miss my Maddy so much right now. I cant get over how fast this horrible disease can progress sometimes. Its so bad that cats don't show symptoms till there is only 25% function of the kidneys left. Even blood tests don't necessarily pick it up in the early stages due to the bodies ability to compensate.
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SM, you will struggle to get Liquid Paraffin, chemists aren't selling it anymore, and selling Lactulose instead as it can be very harsh. SEB can be used for constipation.
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Thinking of you and the boys! :grouphug:
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thanks and thanks Philip, I know the pain is still raw for you so thank you for your help too. I have a very deep bond with both my boys which as you say, gets much stronger when you nurse them intensively.
Poor Max. He hadn't pooed last night at 11 so I topped up his dose of lactulose, then 5 mins later he went big time, so early this morning he had a bit of a runny tum. Not much but he's not eating very well this morning and is miaowy so I hope it is just that and I haven't inadvertently made him worse.
You are right too in that being on hyper alert for any problems is draining. I feel about 200. But I know it's not for ever and it must be done for them. They have always been there for me for 15 and 17 years.
I wish the vet had more experience of home sub cuts as I do feel a bit abandoned and am having to get advice (mostly good) from the CRF yahoo group instead. My vet said 50mls a day for Max. If I'd just given him that, he would have passed on by now.
Anyhow I hope he will be calmer and eat more later. I spend ages just cuddling him, but I need to cuddle Swampy too. The way they both like affection and love is different as well.
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I'm just catching up on this but :hug: :hug: :hug: to you all
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Sendng some more :hug: :hug: hope Max eats better tonight and tomorrow xx
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He ate better this morning, thanks. He saw the vet (Swampy's home visit) and disappeared fast! I tried to discuss the fluids amount as well with the vet, but no good really. He just says no-one else does for their cats what I do. That isn't true - if you look at the CRF yahoo group and generally in America, so many owners are doing sub cuts and I'm sure that here (maybe not around here or in London) others are doing the same.
I'm tired of being made to feel a freak for doing something so routine elsewhere and doing palliative care. Sorry to sound off, but I'm quite upset. Max ate, wee'd normally, had a play and a good purr this morning. What's wrong with making sure he can do that for as long as possible?!
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There is nothing wrong with what you are doing sweetie - dont let it get you down. Your love and devotion to your boys is an inspiration xxx
Love, huggles and positive vibes for your gorgeous boys and a big :hug: for you Hun xxx
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.
I'm tired of being made to feel a freak for doing something so routine elsewhere and doing palliative care. Sorry to sound off, but I'm quite upset. Max ate, wee'd normally, had a play and a good purr this morning. What's wrong with making sure he can do that for as long as possible?!
Don't be daft. Its up to every individual owner how much they do.
It also depends on the cats temperament as well. I honestly don't think I've had a single cat with the right temperament.
I probably could not do what you are doing (never say never!) and you must be feeling totally exhausted.
:hug:
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I'm tired of being made to feel a freak for doing something so routine elsewhere and doing palliative care.
There are so few vets in the UK who offer owners the chance to do subqs at home, but its not that they don't know that it can help in so many cases, its more they don't think owners could cope I suppose. My vet was ok about me doing it, but I had to ask her if I could, it wasnt offered. :hug:
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thanks :hug: It's just when you are paying £80 for a home visit (or ok, 35% of that) and it's like "oh well you know NO-ONE else would do what you do for these cats" snigger snigger, I just see red. You are right in that the extent of palliative care depends on a cat's temperament. Both of my cats are well travelled with us and although Swampy isn't easy to treat (he pulls away, he's still strong and he has his likes and dislikes!) both him and Max basically are cats you can treat. They have always been very focused on "their" people too. I was going to have it out with the vet, but there isn't really any alternative to him in this area and it's too far down the line anyhow. I think he doesn't like the fact that I am getting info and support online from America on sub cuts and CRF as there is none coming from him and what he told me wasn't enough for Max.
He now told me that even if Max isn't eating much I should give him lactulose every day as it will help his urea to be flushed out. But it makes Max feel sick if I get the dose a bit wrong, then he doesn't eat. I am aiming for twice a week if everything stays the way it is (of course it may not). He only really eats Applaws which is chicken and has no fibre. PAH have been out of stock of the chicken and pumpkin one which I suppose has a bit more fibre (?). Do you think twice a week is enough for him to poo? I just want him to feel as well as possible for as long as possible and today he's much better than yesterday, when he had the lactulose runs.
thanks everyone for making me feel less alone :hug:
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...and I do hope today is a better day than yesterday....long may it continue! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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:hug: :hug: you're doing a great job, and as you say, sub-cuts are routine in the US. You seem to have got the hang of it now and you surely know your cats better that anyone so go with your instincts. Easy to say I know. I'm sure that at least some of Korky's problem with his back legs is due to low potassium but the vet says it isn't. His reading is still in the normal range so the vet says its OK but everything I've read says that the body tries to maintain normal blood levels of potassium at the expense of tissue levels so a cat CAN be short of potassium even with normal blood levels. I'm tempted to get some Kaminox from vet UK but, like you, I'm nervous that I might make things worse rather than better.
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I now give 1ml a day of Kaminox. I read that potassium supplements and ACE inhibitors (fortekor in cats) don't go well together in humans. I told the vet. Shortly afterwards he asked me to down the dose from 2mls a day to 1ml. Having said that, it's good stuff. I think you're right about the potassium and they can no longer 'make' it themselves so you could try a bottle (lasts ages).
Max is vomiting foamy white stuff shortly after munching on the spider plant (he's eaten those all his life). He then feels better and wants to eat, although am only giving him little teaspoons until his tum settles.
It's worrying though.
He vomited in the night, then ate, then ate a whole small can of Applaws between 4.30am (groan) and now and is interacting normally. Is the white foam toxins from his kidneys?
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Kate i cant answer any of your questions ref treatments for the boys, but what i can do is say how much i admire what your doing for them both,it must be very hard for you with both of them ill and not feeling well yourself but im sure i speak for everyone on here when i say BLESS YOU FOR GIVING THESE 2 HAVE A REASONABLE QUALITY OF LIFE DISPITE THE OVERWHELMING ODDS :Luv: its not done from duty but from pure unconditional love for the 2 boys in your life and for that no-one can call you a freak or anything else except EXCEPTIONAL :hug: :hug:
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:grouphug:
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:hug: :hug: to you all
Max ate like a little piggyboy last night which was some good news, even if who knows for how long. He ate a whole can of Applaws between 3.30am (groan) and 5.30am and I had to open a new one after his fluids at 8.30. Bless him, he's so easy with his fluids. He lies there looking resigned to his fate! It only takes a minute to give them as a result.
I am trying to learn to celebrate the time we have together and enjoy it, rather than premature grieving or stressing about how long it all may last. It's really not easy to do.
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Glad Max is back eating again.....That is one weight off your shoulders Kate! :Luv: :hug:
I am trying to learn to celebrate the time we have together and enjoy it, rather than premature grieving or stressing about how long it all may last. It's really not easy to do.
:care: :grouphug:
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Max is limping quite badly this morning on his front left paw. Is there anything you can give CRF cats for arthritis? I know the anti inflammatories are no good and the vet even stopped his glucosamine when he was in hospital.
He's eaten a whole can of Applaws since the middle of the night and is purry and contented. I'm just so worried that now he has another big problem. He's always had arthritis but this limp is bad.
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Poor baby. Sorry I don't know of any pain relief that isn't NSAID. Fron what I understand, Fortekor opens up blood vessels to improve blood flow but NSAIDS like Metacam restrict them. I googled but didn't have any luck. I'm surprised that your vet stopped glucosamine. Even then, it isn't really pain relief - more a long term thing. Maybe worth asking your vet if you can give a small amount of Metacam (or something else if they have it) when he is in pain - after all, quality over quantity - you know that anyway :hug:
I just wonder if acupuncture is an option?
Somebody I used to work with was a keen cyclist and had arthritis in his hands. He said he was amazed how much it helped.
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Mt vet only suggested supplements with Rosie due to her CRF. Dont forget Metacam also affects the liver as well as the kidneys. Untreatable arthritis is a big factor in quality of life though.
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Poor Max- hope something can be sorted for him - lots of get better vibes from us all and loads of :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: to you all
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don't like my chances of a kitty acupuncturist around here but I will certainly ask a human one that is near here. I don't understand quite why Max can't have his glucosamine either. Seems most CRF cats that are old are on it (?), does it strain kidney function? He is eating and behaving normally, just limping around. But I don't want it to get any worse obviously.
many thanks for searching Mark.
I think it has flared up (he's had limps before since he was 8 or so years old from time to time) because in this hot weather he just sits or lies curled up a lot rather than jumps to get on the windowsill or anything. He does stiffen up when he doesn't move around much. I've been trying to avoid taking him to the vet as it will just stress him and he could go downhill whereas at home he is happy right now, thank God.
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I'm using a homeopathic medicine for Korky. I don't know whether its the drops or just coincidence but he's seemed a lot more comfortable in the past week (although still not walking well). That said, its not an English product - its from France where they use lots of homeopathic preparations and Korky's vet said it was worth a try as he couldn't prescribe any conventional medicine. If there's not a UK equivalent I could ask our friends to send a bottle when they get home this coming weekend (they're in the UK at the moment).
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There is a link here to find a vet that does acupuncture http://www.abva.co.uk/contact.asp
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thanks Mark! There are a few in Kent and London although of course not souf east. I will ask the vet tomorrow too if there is anyone at North Kent referral specialist clinic. My car's being fixed tomorrow (again) so with any luck later in the week we may be able to travel. Laura's last week of possible Swampy sitting before she starts her new job too.
CarolM, I used to live in France and have friends there. What is the homeopathic stuff called please and is it easy to get in any decent pharmacie, I can try to get someone to buy it for me and post it? If not, many thanks, I'll definitely take you up on your kind offer.
I know that only supplements and physical therapy will help him. I'm just hoping that it doesn't get worse as it's not bothering him too much. Right now it's the usual leg and the other 3 legs are fine.
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There's one in Lewisham on this list http://www.natural-animal-health.co.uk/Vets/findvet.php?area=4 - not sure exactly where you are.
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bless you Mark, Lewisham is just around the corner. I'll give them a ring tomorrow :hug:
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Lets hope they can help him - I really have an open mind about acupuncture and have heard good things about it :)
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Fingers crossed the acupuncturist can help Max poor llittle man :Luv:
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He's not going to the vet as the locum just said nothing she can do, get him to rest (no problem there). They aren't very tuned into supplements or comp. medicine at all so I'm going to ring around today and see what I can find out.
Max is still limping (wonder if it's the hot, humid weather? it came on so suddenly) but he's eaten well this morning and had a good cuddle.
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found a vet about 5 miles from here who does acupuncture. Max is going tomorrow at 4pm. The vet is not always there but is there this week so hopefully we can see if it helps Max.
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The stuff I'm using for Korky is called HOMEOARTRIL (acute accent on the e) and its made by Laboratoire TVM. Our friends got it from the vet so I don't know whether its available in pharmacies but I suspect it will be. Its in a 30 ml bottle. Let me know if you need me to get some for you. Glad Max is eating well. Korky is very picky with his food at the moment - I think its the weather.
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Topping up with more get well vibes for Max xxxx
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Fingers crossed that the vet can help Max and make him more comfortable especially in this hot weather :hug: :hug:
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More positive vibes coming to Max~~~~~~ :Luv: :hug:
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The stuff I'm using for Korky is called HOMEOARTRIL (acute accent on the e) and its made by Laboratoire TVM. Our friends got it from the vet so I don't know whether its available in pharmacies but I suspect it will be. Its in a 30 ml bottle. Let me know if you need me to get some for you. Glad Max is eating well. Korky is very picky with his food at the moment - I think its the weather.
thanks! I'll phone my friend in France to see if she can ask her vet or at the pharmacy. Otherwise I'll be in touch by the weekend - very many thanks for your help.
Max is limping but it doesn't stop him doing banned things (by the vet) like climbing on and off the sofa and he's quite mobile although he's not jumping up on the chest in the window any more. No bad thing. I'm wondering if he fell off and hurt himself actually.
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Max tolerated the acupuncture quite well and the vet seems very good. Not a quick fix though. he goes for another one on thursday. It may take a while. The vet isn't there that often as lives elsewhere but at least he's there this week. He was interested in the sub cuts, said not many people here will do it, which he finds annoying as it's easy especially with a syringe and doesn't take long and can prolong life for months.
Max then didn't limp in the surgery much, but the limp came back as soon as we were home. However the vet finds it positive that Max is still moving around, jumping on the sofa etc.
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Aw what a tolerant man Max is....Glad the vet is pleased with him! :Luv: :hug:
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going back today for more acupuncture. to my amazement, I was outside with Swampy when there was a thud and da Max arrived (only for 5 mins and I had to carry him back in as he's not supposed to jump down). I can't stop him walking about and jumping on sofas, up the stairs etc so I hope that means that at the moment it is not too painful despite the limp. He's only recently discovered the sofa (we've had it for 3 months now) and it's lovely and soft and I think it is in the fan's arc of cooler air. He doesn't yet know he's going to have more pins stuck in him later on today though! I just hope it works. The vet does what he calls "western medicine acupuncture" (using the natural pressure points) rather than eastern acupuncture using meridians. Does anyone know the difference in how they are supposed to help? thanks.
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Here's hoping the accupuncture went as smoothly for Max as the first lot did! :wish:
Wow, jumping down and finding the new sofa....maybe the heat is helping with his leg? :Luv:
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Max was really good. Had a long wait too to be seen as well and a few dogs in the waiting room but at least they have air con! The vet (who is great) said Max's posture, behaviour and movement suggests that he's not in bad pain, although of course he is in some as is limping. The vet's now not there until mid July but gave me the name both of a drug that may help if necessary in pain relief (same as found on CRF site link) if necessary and the name of another acupuncturist, who is quite a bit further away but still doable if I could get there and get someone to look after Swampy while I'm out.
Max thinks the sofa is just toooo comfy but at least when he jumps down, it's on to the futon which is a softer landing than the floor.
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Hoping Max has a good day :hug:
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This sounds quite positive for Max, fingers crossed it is helping him and he continues to improve :hug: :hug:
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So glad Max is doing well. Have you managed to source any of the Homeoartil yet or are you not bothering now he is doing so well with the acupuncture? Let me know if you need me to ask our friends.
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Hi, I have tried 3 times and haven't got my friend yet (she has no answerphone) but I'm sure I'll get her tomorrow. If she can't do it, I'd love to get some. Max isn't as yet responding to acupuncture. I think it takes quite a few appointments. Plus the vet said that we should combine therapy for pain with it, not just rely on it. I'm going to talk to my usual vet about meds but homeopathic is something I'd really like to try. I'll either post on here or will pm you.
I gave the Max monster a pepcid this morning as he was lip licking a bit although he has eaten and bitten a chunk out of my thumb in our favourite piranha game.
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I guess its Max's favorite game rather than yours LOL,,,,he the pirana and you the bait :rofl: :rofl:
Hope everything works out well for him :hug:
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yes, it's not great for the fingers but he's not as quick as he used to be and I can get out of the way of his snappers most of the time :shify:
CarolM, would you mind asking your friends please? I got my friend who rang the vets but they don't have it and are not sure how to get it, but would do so but it could take a couple of weeks. Please let me know how much - I have a euro account so can send a cheque if that is ok? I'd be very grateful, many thanks.
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Hope Max continues to improve :hug:
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Thinking of you and the boys today and hoping you have a lovely weekend with them both! :Luv: :hug:
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Thinking of You and Max hope you have a good weekend :hug:
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Max suddenly got worse last night and isn't really eating much at all, just a nibble. He ate well during the day but is subdued and clearly not feeling well. I gave him pepcid and then let him eat some green plant but I'm so worried. OH goes away from tues - thurs night this week too.
Please send vibes and prayers for Max that it's a blip and not his kidneys going again. I upped his sub cut fluids this morning to 100mls but that didn't help either really. He is quite affectionate and purry but won't eat much at all.
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Kate, I'm sorry if this sounds negative but cats will purr to try and reassure themselves which could be what Max is doing. I hope he improves.
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no he's only purring when fussed over but his appetite is way off. He's eaten but only a tiny bit. I bought him SEB from H&B. The capsules are 370g. I read Tanya's CRF site and it suggests a whole one if I've read it right. Would that be right or is that too much to give? Is it best given with food (attempted food) or does anytime work if it's going to? thanks.
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I have no answer to your question Kate, just letting you know that I am thinking of you all and sending more positive vibes! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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Hope Max is feeling a bit better this morning ,sending lots of those positive vibes for him and :hug: for you :hug:
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:hug: :hug: Hope Max is feeling better today and hope you are well :hug:
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Lots of love to Max :hug:
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he's eaten better since 3am today, no idea why. Possibly the lactulose upset him again. Still not sure how much SEB to give or if that whole capsule could even be put down his throat. I don't want to put anything in his food in case he stops eating.
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he's eaten better since 3am today, no idea why. Possibly the lactulose upset him again. Still not sure how much SEB to give or if that whole capsule could even be put down his throat. I don't want to put anything in his food in case he stops eating.
Maybe start a new thread asking about the SEB Kate...that way you should get your answer sooner! Glad he has started to eat again! :Luv: :hug:
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:thanks: good idea, I did that.
see you are keeping my hours too Bazsmum. I can hardly stand up this morning. I think I got 3 hours sleep over 2 nights :Crazy:
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Hugs for you and Max hope you are both well :hug: :hug:
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Dont know how you are managing Kate, its not nice going around in a zombiefied state I can vouch for that! :hug:
Hoping that the info you got from Mark has put your mind at rest.... ;)
Hoping that Max is still eating okay too! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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I got about 4 hours in batches last night which counts as a very good one around here :Crazy:
Max took off in mid fluids last night which he's not done before. The needle flew out and fluids went all over me. However I then managed to hold him still and gave the fluids (while biting his head and pushing the syringe with my other hand lol). I hope he's not quite so feisty tonight or may have to see if my neighbour's in! She's great with animals but is moving out in a few weeks and none of the others in the building would help at all.
Yes he's eating today, just applaws though so that's what he's getting. I started the SEB on a low dose overnight and he had a lovely loud howl and poo at 2am (I had to get up to check he wasn't blocked). I do wish they'd poo at a civilised hour ;)
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Hugs for you and Max today :hug: :hug:
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Hi Kate just wondered how Max and Swampy are doing today, :hug: :hug:
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....and how are you all doing today? Everything okay I hope! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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The vet came to see Swampy but had a look at Max too and is quite pleased with him. Max played when he was here which was great. But he's suggested a magnetic collar for his limp as has heard it can help with arthritis - does anyone know anything about those or which to get?
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I have heard some good things about them - i had a magnotherapy bracelet and it seemed to work - you need a bioflow one though not a cheap one .
I did buy a cat collar myself for one of my cats - they don''t wear it though as it makes their fur knotty .
If i can find it you are welcome to it - its plain black - i have probably put it in a safe place -which is usually so safe i can''t find it for about a year , when i suddenly come across it -but will look for you.
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My MIL used a magnetic collar on her dog and he used to drink magnitised water, these magnets were not cheap approx £30 for the one to do the water with but she felt they helped him! ;)
Glad Max is doing well! :Luv: :hug:
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thanks very much. His limp is still constant so he will need some help other than cosequin. He´s eaten well but he has been vocalising a lot more and is still ignoring Swampy, which is a worry. But he came under the duvet (allowed now since he was so ill) for a good cuddle this morning.
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Aw bless, I know when I have been sore wherever I dont want peeps near me so sadly thats probably why he is keeping Swampy at a distance!
Glad that he has been under the duvet though....he knows that you will be gentle with him! Thinking of you all and wishing you all well! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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Please send vibes and prayers for Max again. He has been yelling a lot the last 2 days and today got food phobic as well. Tonight I was on my own and nervy from it all, so stressed him even more giving his fluids badly. I then left him alone - had to go downstairs to my neighbour's flat for an hour - and he did eat a bit. I don't know if he is freaked or if it's his toxins and kidneys again. I am so scared. Things had been going so well. It's a month now since he left hospital. The vet had only given him a week or two at most, but the fluids have helped so much. But I know they won't help forever.
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Lots of love to Max :hug:
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:hug:
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Sending lots of positive vibes and love for Max. :hug: :hug:
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Sending lots of vibes to you all~~~~~~Hope things pick up! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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he ate again in the night and a bit this morning, but is still very vocal and a bit anxious and is now peeing every 3 hours or so and quite a bit. I know he is getting fluids and it's not as hot, but how much is that and how much is kidneys I'm not sure. The vet agreed that it may be pointless to keep doing bloods, that we will judge Max on how he is. I'm in 2 minds about that too.
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Sending lots of positive vibes for Max and :hug: :hug: for you.
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Sending lots of positive vibes from me and my gang, hang on in there Kate :hug: :hug:
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thanks :hug: I'm still wondering if I should have his bloods (full ones) run while he is eating like this so we know just what he can tolerate, or if there's no point. He is eating again (touch wood!) and quite happy in himself. Even sat on the windowsill in the sun yesterday which he's not done for a couple of years. But he is quite vocal with no real point sometimes.
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I dont know about the bloods Kate? :-:
But while he is eating and happy in himself I am happy for you all! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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Not sure re the bloods to be honest hun, it may give indications on kidney function etc, but it still won't make any difference to how Max actually is, if you see what I mean. Saying that though, it might show how medications are continuing to work (or not work), which may give a better overall indication?
Its such a minefield, I wish I could give you some answers :hug: :hug: xxx
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Hi Kate just wondered how the boys were doing today, hope they are okay and your coping, :hug: :hug:
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Max is eating well, purring, playing and moving about normally - even in the sun on the window ledge in the kitchen which he's not done for ages. But he is yelling such a lot. He yelled from 4am constantly and only stopped while I was cuddling him. He has an awful voice and it's loud. I don't know if he is upset or if it is the toxins from his kidneys. I have them both unwell at once right now, which is difficult. Please send them both vibes and prayers if and when you can, thanks
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Not sure about the yelling hun, does he do that more when you're not in the room?
My Max is not doing that, but is much more settled when I'm there, will eat better etc, maybe its a security issue with him, he wonders where you are? Not sure :hug:
Topping up with lots of healing and love vibes for Mr Max and Swampy :hug: xx
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Franta yells too......well does his birman howls ands woke me up around 0630 and gave him some food and he stopped. so reckon he was hungry.
Hope Max is not getting dementia cos they howl all the time nearly then :hug: :hug:
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Just wanted to let you know i have been looking for the magnotherapy cat collar -but not found it as yet - i haven''t forgotten though .
Mega healing vibes for both boys and lots of :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Yowling can be a sign of high blood pressure or hyper-t. I used to have a magnetic collar for Tiger, but a friend bought it off the net for me, so I dont know where she got it from.
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It must be partly a security issue, yes, Yesterday afternoon I didn't feel well so lay down for a couple of hours with him next to me, happy as anything. Then last night he either lay in the bed with me or next to me on the futon and again not much howling. It could be also that his toxin levels go up and down as he does get fluids at night. But he is eating well for the moment which is a good sign.
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Glad Max is eating well and moving about normally. Do you think the drops have had effect? Korky is moving much better now and has no hesitation jumping on and off chairs and the bed and he can manage the stairs, having found a different way of approaching them. Hope the howling settles :hug:
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Glad that Max has started to eat again (phew) he obviously enjoys laying with you so that has gave him comfort!
Keep up the good work Max.....Love to you all! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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Sams just posted some new info on giving sub cuts Kate, after a quick scan I noticed a part where it mentioned about a lump from the needle site to which I know you questioned before, I know you must be super qualified in this now but maybe there is something in there that is of help! :Luv: :hug:
http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php/topic,26458.new/boardseen.html#new
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:thanks: I don't know if there's an illustrated guide to giving sub cuts with the syringe method (like Helen on the Crf site did as well) as I've done both methods and the syringe is so much quicker and easier imho. Especially if you don't have a cat that is happy to just lie there. It only takes a minute to give 100mls, although the prep time is longer.
Max got into the bed with Swampy again tonight although he wouldn't do that last night or all day. I hope hope hope hope that he is going to do that more and more as it's hugely comforting for Swampy especially now he's not feeling at all well.
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I did a sort of illustrated guide with Tiffy if it helps.
http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php/topic,6964.0.html
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that's great - thanks. I do it slightly differently in that my 2 move, so I use the butterfly needles. They allow a bit of movement without falling out as they have a cord between the syringe and the needle and the needle can (butterfly!) move backwards and forwards. I use the size 21 which seems to work. I give up to 110mls in one site and change day to day from left to right side but a certain amount of overlap is inevitable.
Max is back in the bed (I put the heatpad on because of our lovely summer!) with Swampy which has made a huge difference. I just hope it lasts. The minx got me up several times from 3am onwards because he was hungry, now of course he won't eat at all this afternoon. I hope tonight.
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Here's hoping that Max got his overnight munchies again and is feeling well enough to still enjoy his sleeps with Swampy! :Luv: :hug:
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Max is going to the vet tomorrow for the first time in nearly 2 months (after the vet said he only had a 10% chance of more than a week to live btw). I'm very nervous as he will have bloods done and I hope the stress doesn't make him deteriorate. He's been nervy today as I have been out a lot. We just thought that as it has gone on for 2 months, we should know if he is anaemic or has high phosphorus as he won't eat any renal or even senior food, just Hi life and applaws and a mouthful now and then of RC dry.
Please send vibes for him and calming thoughts for his nervous mum too. When Max is nervy he won't really eat and it's difficult to know if it's that or if it's his kidneys. We also need to see what difference the current level of sub cut fluids has made.
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Best of luck today hun :hug:
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Sending tons of positive vibes for Max's vet visit~~~~~~Hope you and Swampy are keeping well too! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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the vet said how well Max was looking and how it was amazing, given how he was in hospital. I didn't say much but just that I don't give up that easily especially when his weight was stable and his coat good and he was playing but he owes what time he's had and may have left to the sub cut fluids and to the advice I got on that on the american yahoo support group site.
I am so nervous about the numbers although no decision would ever be taken just on them, but on how he is doing. So nervous I ate a whole bar of the dark and milky stuff (disgusting but think some women on here may understand!). Max came home and ate quite well, bit of an adrenalin rush I think. My friends have gone :( but it means I will spend more time with him. He made a protest puddle on my duvet last night, which he's never done before (I'm sure it wasn't Swampy), the minx. He didn't like the cat sitter that came for 2 hours as she had been dog walking and smelt of The Enemy.
I just hope he doesn't repeat it!
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his results are back. Creatinine 385.7 and urea 30.5. His potassium, phosphorus, albumin, ALT, PCV are all ok and calcium and sodium at the upper end of normal. Glucose slightly raised but the vet thinks this is caused by stress of having the bloods done. I am to keep doing what I am doing as to cut some fluids may make him worse and the only way to find out is too scary.
His numbers are quite similar to those sent off to the lab when he was discharged from hospital in terms of creatinine (22 May it was 367). But his urea is much higher (he's eating more but it's almost double). Vet says to mostly worry about creatinine though.
He says as it's now 2 months, Max has to a certain extent stabilised on high nos. But we must still go day to day.
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A protest puddle? :) If he's well enough to protest with puddles, then there's still cause to smile, I reckon. :hug:
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I do hope the majority of the results have put your mind at rest Kate....He is an absolute star! Love and prayers and everything I can muster for you and the boys! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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Max had a fit in the passage about 1 1/2 hours ago. He'd eaten some of his green plant, which is normally fine, just this time it made him repeat vomit and then he suddenly lay down, his eyes flicked from side to side and his breathing was through his nose and loud and faster and then he peed on the rug. I was holding him and it passed quite quickly and then he ate a teaspoon of food (normally, so not a major seizure thank God) and now he is back on his sleeping place in the window sill. He is going down to see the locum vet at 3.30 if all is well before then. She said best to leave him if he has stabilised as extra stress could cause even more problems.
I got such a fright though. Then Swampy (who also ate some) vomited in his bed and became agitated too. The Poisons unit (vet nurse rang them) say occasionally spider plants / cholorophytum can cause vomiting and agitation. They've been eating them instead of grass - which makes them vomit blood - for about 10 years so it's a freak thing, but the plant is going in the bin. Does anyone know what I can give them to help their tums, as kitty grass is too astringent I think? Is there a gentler grass?
It's all a bit overwhelming when 2 of them at once are ill. Please send all the vibes around that Max will not get another attack from going to the vets and that he'll be ok. And that Swampy will be too and that he will start to eat.
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are you near any outdoor space Kate, before my boys were allowed out I used to just pick the grass from the garden and give it to them - I know Mary does the same for Bonnie
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It does sound its what they both just ate but why now?
Katalax or defurm treats does furballslike grass.
Mine are all sick after eating grass and thats what its meant to do.
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I always used to pick grass from the garden and give to Max, he used to love it :Luv:
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I have no grass in my garden Kate and next door is kind enough to allow me to take some of theirs, There has been quite a few fur balls of late so I know that some of mine have been glad of the grass to get these up! ;)
Sending more positive vibes for Max and Swampy and of course yourself~~~~fingers crossed everything will be fine! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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I have sown wheat seeds which makes a nice softish grass, and is fast growing
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It's an old and tatty looking, chewed to ribbons, plant. I have no idea why now should be a problem either. It's on every list I can find as safe for cats too.
We have some new grass in the garden - just relaid quite a few sq metres - so I will go and collect some later. I'll have to wash it though because foxes pee and poo on it and must make sure that no fertilisers were used after planting (don't think so).
Sorry to be thick but I'm interested in the wheat seeds option. Where do I get them please?
His Maxness just bit me for fun so I think he's feeling better, I hope that's the last we see of any fits. For about 30 seconds I thought I was losing him. It's so odd, I went so calm and just held his head in my hand. When Swampy had his accident I went all calm too. Then afterwards I go HELP! and stress out and eat ch-oc- of course.
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Im sure this is all a mystery for you and you are expecting the unexpected! Even though you dont give yourself much credit for the fabulous work you have done with your boys....Have more faith in yourself, your vet trusts that you can do things and we all do to! :Luv: :hug:
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have pm'd you re wheat seeds
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Sending you all lots of :hug: :hug: :hug:
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The vet said Max is ok, but the next 24/48 hours are crucial and he's not allowed any more plants at all. The vomiting made his sympathetic nervous system kick and he had a little seizure and once they've had one, they are quite probably going to have another at some point. The idea is not to let him get too much tum acid - not so easy with CRF cats and urea at 30! But I'll give him a 1/4 pepcid every day now, not just when I think he may need it. As long as he eats little and often that helps too. He got a thorough check over too.
When he came home, he had a hearty meal and is now asleep so here's hoping that he will be fine.
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:crossed: Sending him tons of positive healing vibes Kate~~~~~~Glad he has ate and is now resting! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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he is still nervous and breathing (I think) a bit too fast. He's resting though although he's not eaten much, as long as something is going in then his tum won't be empty which means less stomach acid.
I am sleeping in here tonight so think he will curl up with me, so I can keep an eye on him.
thanks for the vibes :hug:
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How is Max doing this morning? :hug: :hug:
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He's nervy and he and Swampy aren't interacting too well right now. I plonked Max into the bed with Swampy as it helps Swampy usually to calm down and there's a heatpad in there (another grey cool day here) but no grooming and just lying next to each other.
Max did eat a bit but was subdued all night. I went down the passage during the night and normally he follows me but last night he just lay there. I hope to speak to the locum later about him.
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Thinking of you all Kate and sending Positive vibes your way~~~~~~ :care: :ahh: :ahh: :hug:
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Max seems to be feeling sick. I can't get him to eat even his applaws today. He just shies away. He was doing so well until that fit yesterday, it just tears me apart. Sometimes i just feel at my wit's end (then I come on to here). I hope he will eat after his fluids tonight. Max is a funny little fellow, you can tell from his face how he is feeling. He doesn't have just one "Max" expression, but hundreds. Today he doesn't look well.
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Max is worse tonight. He won't eat. His eyes are full and black and he is breathing shallowly. I am really afraid. He was doing so well until he ate that plant and vomited yesterday I just feel desolate that I let him get near it.
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Has anyone else's CRf cat done this? Max spent the whole afternoon and the early part of this evening lying still, breathing badly, eyes black and very tense. AFter his SEB and fluids I gave him Zylkene and a few hours later he came to sit with me very suddenly, then had a big drink, walked better, I could see his eye colour and he has had a little meal. It seems like a toxin related, prolonged panic attack - a version of what he had yesterday.
I just hope he can stay calm tonight and am wondering how to handle this as when he is feeling better he's a different cat. It's like an attack. We thought the end was here tonight he was so miserable. Now he is back to how he was this morning.
Is this something that toxins cause? His urea is high at 30 odd. I am going to give him Zylkene from now on. I have a 1ml syringe of diazepam for seizure emergencies but I don't want to use that unless I have to. My own vet doesn't know Zylkene so was hesitant about my using it. The locum knows it and said to give it to him.
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I would think its the toxins made him feel poorly and dehydrated, yes, and the fluids have made him feel better - I know Suzie always used to look and act much better after I'd given her the sub q's. :hug:
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the build up of toxins in the blood from kidney failure is known to cause mental confusion and personality changes in people, so it is not surprising if the same happens with Max
glad to know it does pass though
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The vet took bloods to check if his creatinine and urea are the same as last time before his fit. He suggests that we use 1ml of diluted bicarb and Max may have to go back into hospital on a drip until saturday if his readings are the same and we think it may help. It's a difficult decision. When he is well, it makes us feel awful that we even consider hospital for Max. When he is so very ill, we think that there's no point. But we know that last time the IV treatment plus sub cuts gave him 2 months that the vets didn't think he would have.
The results should be back this evening then I have to make the decision on the drip. Please send thoughts that if nothing else, I make the right call. Max ate when he came home from the vet, he ate this morning and he was playing with me. I'm not giving up on him but I force the vet to think laterally on how to stop nausea as if we can stop the worst of his nausea, he will eat and he won't fit.
American CRf group suggested a drug he's not familiar with (used in chemo patients) so they are going to ring north Kent to ask their opinion.
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:hug: :hug: :hug: to you and Max, I can't offer any practical support or ideas but I want you to know I'm thinking about you
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He actually sounds like he has started to perk up now! Sending positive vibes that the results are good when they arrive (hopefully this evening!)! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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American CRf group suggested a drug he's not familiar with (used in chemo patients) so they are going to ring north Kent to ask their opinion.
http://www.petmeds.co.uk/p-68-cerenia-tablets.aspx
Is it those in the above link Kate? If so my Teddie was on these with no adverse reactions! ;)
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No it was ondesteron I think but cerenia is a possibility too. But I think Max may have to go to hospital for one last chance tomorrow. He did not perk up and eat after his sub cuts tonight. He is unhappy and is breathing I think too fast (about 48 per minute) and is nervy. This is the first time ever he's not eaten after his fluids.
I am worried that it's not just his kidneys but his heart as well. I just can't get my head around how he can have such a glossy coat, his weight be stable and yet be so ill. Plus he was fine and had the same blood nos a week ago. I just don't understand. I am so tired too that making any decisions is so hard. I don't want him to die in hospital, alone. But if I don't try the hospital, we have as good as given up.
As he was so well just 3 days ago before his fit, I think it may be worth one more try.
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Lots of love to Max :hug:
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I've been up all night with Max who was breathing too fast, through nose and mouth and swishing his tail. I thought he was going to pass out, but just held him and comforted him and the attack passed. This morning he ate. I am taking him in at 9.40am. We don't want to leave him there unless it is to check if he's had too much fluid which has affected his heart. He's had his heart listened to for 2 days in a row - wouldn't they have noticed? IF it is stress, hospital could finish him off.
My vet isn't familiar with any situation where a normal amount of sub cuts (<200mls per day) could cause problems. He says it's not the case. I will ask again though, even if it's a remote possibility. Only since monday though when he had his seizure from vomiting has the fluid not helped him to feel much better.
He didn't eat after fluids last night and had such a bad night (panic attacks another possibility) then felt better this morning a long time after his fluids. I'm not giving him any more until I've seen the vet. He's due them at 8.30 but I'm too scared.
However I can't check his hydration on skin test, as even when his creatinine was 500+ his skin didn't feel dehydrated and yet fluids helped him and brought down his nos so he did need them. Please please sendn vibes that the vet applies his mind and we do the right thing.
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Tons of good luck vibes on their way :hug: xxxxxxx
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good luck Kate, you will know what the right thing to do is
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Max has fluid on the lungs, just as the american CRF site suggested. I took him in and asked for an X ray. The trouble is, they don't do sub cuts here much with cats so the vets don't see it often enough.
He's been given a diuretic and has to pee like mad today as if he doesn't then it has to be drained, which is risky (draining tends to be what they do in America). Then it's a guessing game of trying to keep him feeling ok for as long as possible as he must have some fluids by sub cut, or his kidneys will fail. Too much though and it will build up.
but his toxins will rise with no fluids today and his prognosis is poor. The vet said to try it to treat him as it has a good chance of success and Max may feel a lot better in a week's time. Then again, if it turns out to be too much for him, I know Max will tell me.
I feel awful and upset but vindicated as I have been on about his breathing problems since monday. Little Max is quite happy now, he is sleeping in the sunny windowsill. Please send mega pee vibes that he can pee a lot today, then have crucial fluids to make him feel better tomorrow again. At least he ate this morning.
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This must be a total mare for you!!! Im glad that Max has eaten today hopefully that is an indication that his nausea is subsiding and the toxins are getting less! :wish:
I do hope he can manage to pee today and Im sending tons of peeing vibes to Max~~~~~C'mon Max you can do it! :Luv2:
Sending much love and wishes to you and your two boys Kate....Hope this all goes to plan! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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Sending positive vibes for Max who I had the pleasure of meeting last Saturday along with Swampy and of course Kate and OH> Am attaching pix we took and you can see how lovely they both look curled up together.
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:hug: :thanks:
Max pee'd on the futon this afternoon so I've ordered in some incontinence pads and had to pay the VAT because it's not for medical use :Crazy: should have said were for me.
I hope it's not a trend as only one of his 4 pees have been in his own tray, although another 1 was in Swampy's tray. So far he's lost 100g which is good progress. The vet doesn't think (hope he is right) Max has congestive heart failure but has had too much fluid and overloaded the kidneys. Tomorrow will be the test when I have to give him some sub cuts, or his kidneys will fail.
My big worry is he pees in the green bed (see MMum's pix below) as that is Swampy's only refuge and would be awful. I've puppypadded it. Max just had his dose of diuretic with another one at midnight so it could be a long night.
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MM, that's such a beautiful picture of the boys. :hug: :Luv:
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Max is down to 4.7kgs today so has lost 400g overnight. The vet is very pleased. Max is also eating. However his heart has a gallopy rhythm. He's had 40mls this morning as with diuretics we have to risk some fluids but he only peed once in the night.
The problem is I now have to watch his respiration rate and juggle the dose of fluids and diuretic on a day to day basis, based on how I think he is doing. It is immensely stressful as at some point it is guessing and I will probably get it wrong. If Max is ok early next week he has to rehave Xray and bloods and he'll have bloods done regularly for as long as he stays stable and we can adjust fluids etc from that too.
Send HELP vibes please!
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Brilliant that the fluid is reducing! ;D Im sure your head will be full of self doubt, I would be a nervous wreck having to trust my own judgement! :scared:
Ive answered your other thread on Cerinia Kate! ;)
Sending tons of positive vibes for Max, and calming ones for yourself to believe in what you do!~~~~~~~Give Max and Swampy head rubs from me and for you, a pat on the back will be sufficient! ;) :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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I am a nervous wreck as I know at some point I will get it wrong. In 13 years of practising as a vet, my vet has never had anyone managing a cat with CRF before with fluids and anti nausea meds.
Max is eating a bit but not peeing very often (back to old habits now he's on 'only' 2 diuretics). I have to give him about 50mls tonight and again tomorrow morning. I am even more anxious as the weekend is coming and I would only have Vet's Now which would be hopeless.
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just peed on his own with no diuretic yet today (am waiting for vet as Max is now down 600g to 4.5kgs so I think it may be ok). Too early for any dancing bananas but at this moment in time his mum is pleased.
OH has gone out. He is fed up of hearing just about cats and fluid doses :P
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So happy that you are pleased, Atleast you can have a much needed brain relax from all your worry! ;D :Luv: :hug:
He body is now obviously using the fluids correctly! ;) :hug:
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He's not quite as good tonight. Getting nervy and not eating as well. He didn't seem to have lost weight and his earlier gentle breathing was a bit faster, so we just gave him another dose of frusemide (diuretic) which is such a pity as we were hoping to get away with just 1 today. I hope just 1 tomorrow, then on monday he goes in for another X ray and maybe some bloods too.
I was too scared to give him 50mls so gave him....42 mls. I must try to relax and not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just the vet said he was doing well and then if I give too much fluid he gets it on his lungs and has to take diuretics which are bad for kidneys, but if I don't give enough fluid his kidneys fail completely.
He still found the energy to bite my finger in a piranha attack though, but is definitely not quite as well as this morning. OH is on 'duty' tonight so I have to show him the tricks to try to encourage Max to pee :Crazy:
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What a vicious circle for you! :shocked: Then it must be a case of less in the subs less needed for the diuretic....Its just getting that balance yet again! :Crazy:
Do you have charts for Max and Swampy? I would get so mixed up if it were me, it would also be good to look over and see what is good and what not! ;)
Hope Max shows some interest in his food again, definitely sounds as if the subs needed cutting....Heavens that is some see-saw your on! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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Max is very poorly tonight. He was ok until late afternoon when his nausea kicked in and he just wants to lie still. I have given him his first cerenia dose. He goes to see the vet at 11 tomorrow to see how much fluid is still on his lungs. He needs more fluid than he is getting. Please send him your prayers and vibes as we have not many weapons left to fight this terrible disease.
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Sending tons of positive healing vibes for Max~~~~~~Hope his nausea subsides quickly! Thinking of you all! :wish: :care: :ahh: :ahh: :grouphug:
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Millions of mega healing vibes for Max from us all here .
Come on Max :Luv2: :Luv2: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Very difficult, as Ruth said, trying to balance the fluids, hope all goes well at the vets tomorrow. :hug:
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Tons of positive vibes for Max for tomorrows visit to the vets :Luv: hope all goes well :hug: :hug:
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Hope everything goes well at the vets for Swampy - mega healing vibes and lots of :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: to you all
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Kate, thinking of you this morning. :hug:
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Hoping all is okay at your end Kate....Thinking of you and the boys! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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hope you are ok Kate :hug:
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Just read this, hope you're OK, Kate.
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Hope Max is ok :hug:
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Hope everything is okay Kate :hug: :hug: :hug: to you and your boys
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Oh dear I dont like silence and hope everything is OK :hug: :hug:
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Was thinking the same as Gill - Hoping everything is ok :hug:
(maddiesmum do you know anything ?)
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Hello, thank you all for asking :hug: Max's bloods came back today and I didn't want to post until I'd spoken to the vet, then I had a bit of an argument with him and was feeling a bit low. Max's creatinine is up to 413.5 from 387 in a week with less fluid and diuretics. His urea is 30.6. He's eating and still quite cheerful for quite a bit of the time, but he has spells of nausea particularly in the afternoon and is a bit more nervy. The vet gave me cerenia, but I've read that you can't use it for long.
So I asked about ondansetron, which an American on the CRF support group mentioned her cat was on. Vet doesn't know it. Is "too busy" to chase a specialist all week. I owe him over £800, which is only 35% of what he will be paid for both my boys as my insurance pays 65%. I was upset as you can imagine.
I've sent him by email the link from the CRF site on ondansetron as it may be something that could help Max as cerenia's not meant to be used long term and has some possible side effects I don't like.
Does anyone know anything about it? I was wondering if I should start yet another thread. All I know is that it is used for chemo cats and for pancreatitis and in America, increasingly for CRF nausea now that there's a cheaper generic. But side effects, I've no idea.
:hug: :hug: :hug: to everyone, thank you for caring
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Im sorry cant help Kate but im sure someone will be able to help with this , all i can do is send some positive vibes for both the boys and lots of :Luv: and :hug: :hug: :hug: for you all
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Sorry dont know anything about meds and only know stuff from searches :hug:
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Can only send lots of :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: and healing vibes as i don''t know anything about the meds either- just not keen on a vet thats "not got time " to help out patients ! I wish he was more helpful to you and the boys .
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The vet (I've lost confidence) says Max can't sleep much and just rests because of his toxins. I've searched throughout Tanya's CRF site and can't find any info on even end stage CRF causing insomnia.
Does anyone know if this is the case, or I wondered perhaps if it was because of either his pleural effusion/fluid around the lungs or the diuretic side effects? The first few days on the diuretic though he did sleep.
He won't lie with me at night any more but just lies on his sofa.
Sometimes he gets up and pees and drinks or even eats a bit and moves about. This morning he seems to have eaten a little dry that I left out (Swampy can't eat dry) and a very little Applaws too. He is still playing with me, the piranha bite mum's fingers game, but I've never seen a cat, even a sick cat, not sleep.
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sorry you are having such a hard time - I remember diddydawn saying once that build up of toxin was supposed to feel like us having a hangover but not sure about the sleeping
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Its strange you say that Kate, as Max was doing a very similar thing, he was lying there looking like he was sleeping, but he had his eyes open, so wasn't actually asleep. He couldn't seem to get comfortable either, so not sure if that was related. He didn't really move off the sofa either, where he'd normally come up onto the bed to sleep with me, he just stayed downstairs on the sofa, or moved to the windowledge, but again was not sleeping as such :hug:
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Is Max on any steroids because they can keep them awake?
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no, but it does coincide with the diuretics and cerenia. Can't find info on the former, but the latter says can cause drowsiness so it may not be that. He is not lying in uncomfy, worrying positions which suggest pain or discomfort. But last night was the first time he didn't bother to even visit me on the futon.
We are going to have another go today to try to get the vet to focus on ondansetron and info about it. It's just not fair.
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Hope you can get the new med sorted Kate, it must be so stressful knowing its recommended on the CRF site but your having probs with the vet with ref to it! :Crazy:
Sending positive vibes for Max and yourself~~~~~ :Luv: :hug:
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I've had to make an appointment for tomorrow to chat about it. OH will be furious as it's yet more money but can't see another way. Max got into bed with me again last night and is able to sleep again. Very weird.
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Maybe it was something different then? You would think if it were one of the meds causing it then it would happen all the time! :Crazy:
Good luck for your chat with the vet tomorrow! Love to you all! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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Max had a very bad night from 3am and was very weak. He hadn't eaten last night either. So I thought his time had come and I just held him and kept telling him I loved him. Then at 5.30 am he just suddenly felt better, started to eat and has had 3 little meals since, including one he miaowed for and has been walking about normally.
Does CRF nausea normally come in waves? He is so different from my 2 other CRF cats who had bad coats, were totally skinny, drank and peed constantly and had a predictable deterioration and I knew exactly when it was too much.
I know that he needs more fluids than I can give him. I am going to try to get the vet to concentrate in our 15 mins today on what is best to do for Max.
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good luck :hug:
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It does sound like his nausea is in episodes rather than continuous..... Im glad he perked up after you being worried out of your skin for him!
I think illness and meds are a rollercoaster Kate, each patient will react/look/manage differently so its really hard to say that a certain thing is happening to him! :Crazy:
I hope you get something positive from your chat with the vet! Best of luck for you all! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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The vet was very nice and understanding. We had a long chat. He thinks Max doesn't have long, but suggested we try the new meds and some vit B and laurabolin injection to see if it helps him feel a bit stronger. He said Max isn't in any pain and we can take our time to be sure whether the meds work or if there's no longer anything we can do. Plus things can change as he is astonished that Max is still with us after 2 months and his creatinine stabilised. The current problems are more from his pleural effusion he thinks.
There is a risk to what we are trying, but it is one that is worth taking. Max is weak but he ate a little bit of fresh chicken tonight and is curled up on the futon with Swampy, which is lovely. It really is a rollercoaster and very tiring for both of us. Please send prayers and vibes for baby Max.
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He had a good night and ate well after all the meds but this morning he went to the tray, strained hard but nothing happened 2 or 3 times and started to hyperventilate through his mouth. We thought his time had come and rushed him to the vet prepared to say goodbye. The vet thinks otherwise and unblocked his bladder, but said it wasn't that - but didn't unblock his bowels which he said Max had a small poo in. (see enema thread if you can help please). It seems to be a much greater problem than the vet realises.
OH and I are completely overwrought from all the emotional rollercoaster.
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Oh dear Kate you really are having a bad time of it with this roller coaster ride your on, i wish i could wave a magic wand and make it all go away but unfortunately i cant, :( all i can do is send lots of positive vibes for both your special boys and :hug: :hug: for you and OH :hug:
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we took him to another vet that was open (not vet's now) this afternoon who prescribed Micralax. My own vet said it's dangerous for CRF but this vet says not. We haven't given it yet as Max is exhausted. We gave him more lactulose and zantac. Does anyone know about it?
Can you get zantac in pill form in the UK? The liquid made him foam.
I am so tired I can't see. It seems so obvious to me that diuretics would constipate and I didn't give him regular lactulose, partly because lactulose makes him feel unwell. The ondansetron could have affected his brain making him unable to go (acc to other vet: a possibility as the first side effect listed for people is constipation).
Please please send poo vibes. We nearly had Max pts, imagine if a lot of his unhappiness is down to something as simple as not pooing.
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Dragan's Zantac was always liquid and smells very minty. Come on little Maxie a nice big poo:) :hug:
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Sending tons of pooing vibes to darling Max~~~~I do hope he goes soon! :Luv: :hug:
It is scary what could of happened Monday, like I say there are so many twists from "the norm" in illnesses, hopefully this will settle down for him! Thinking of you all! :Luv: :hug: :hug:
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Sending lots of pooing vibes :hug:. I dont think you can underestimate the importance of pooing - I've noticed that Korky's bad days are when he hasn't had a poo. He did a lovely poo for me on Friday night :) and again this morning and he's a lot happier now. As you say, it seems a travesty that the so-called 'trivial' things like constipation and nausea can tip them over the edge when they've coped with so much.
Sorry I don't know anything about Micralax but I do know you can get Zantac as a tablet (without prescription). The problem is the smallest size they do is 75mg which makes cutting it into cat sized doses extremely difficult.
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Yes his tum's not right which is a big set back for him. The vet put him on steroids though which does help him. But he hates lactulose and he has to have it daily. We'll just see how we go with him, we've had a few close shaves in the last few days and he has rallied.
I bought some Zantac pills but they are 75mgs as you say. What is the cat dose? The other thing I thought of (maybe should ask on a general thread as it applies equally to all vile tasting meds) was to put the zantac liquid into a couple of gelcaps and give him those - do you know if that is ok? I've also thought of it for steroids and Swampy's selgian, both of which cause foam if tasted, but don't want to hinder their absorption.
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What are you giving the zantac for swampmaxmum ? In humans its used as an antacid and it can also have a side effect of constipation in humans so Im guessing it could in cats too. :-:
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The Zantac's for stomach acid as pepcid doesn't seem to work that well on him. The CRF website says it may help with constipation. I don't know - it's what is really setting Max back. This afternoon we had another situation to deal with as Max strained away and couldn't get the poo out (don't read on if you are sensitive :sick:). We had to syringe some warm water into his bum with a little 1ml syringe and bingo a small event happened on the puppy pad and he felt better. What is worrying is that the poos that are getting stuck are really not big. He is having lots of lactulose and is eating again (steroids maybe). This afternoon we could actually see the flipping poo right near the 'exit' so it was easier than yesterday.
I don't know how to resolve this or whether to put ? mls up his bum of lukewarm water or to give industrial amounts of lactulose. He's like a very sick old man who needs enemas all the time. Poor Max.
This is a new development as last wed he went quite normally.
The vet said something about it's not constipation but it's his kidney toxins making it harder for him to poo. I don't get that one, it certainly looks like constipation from here. It even makes him walk in a wobbly way, which is also on the CRF site.
Max just gobbled a small plate of Applaws chicken and pumpkin. We can't get canned pumpkin in the UK can we as the americans use it for blocked kitties?
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lactulose will only soften poo it doesnt increase peristaltic action which is the muscles needed to push it out.Poor old Max .. how much more can he endure :(
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Thought it might be helpful for you to know that lactulose can safely be syringed into cats back passage and used as an enema, sticky and messy but 3 mls used as enema will be much easier on Max than taken orally :hug:
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:thanks: I'll try that tomorrow. Is that a once a day thing or does it have to be done as often as oral (3x daily) and can you combine both as he 's quite easy to syringe lactulose down, doesn't mind much. He can still push quite hard as I've watched him obviously, just the poos are small and hard and getting stuck. He's more dehydrated of course as is getting less fluid and is on diuretics 2x daily. His breathing is a little slower now when he is asleep.
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When Pedro was at his worst and the lactulose taken orally didnt work i used to give him microlax enemas, vet told me to try the lactulose as an enema and he had one lot which moved a bit and a second lot which I mixed with some lukewarm water to make in total 6ml, it got things moving, so I only used it this way twice in 12hours, I will add that Pedro was a healthy young male with normal kidneys etc.
I certainly cant see there being a problem if he is allowed it orally,
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One thing your vet could check Kate, this happened to Dragan. As cats get older sometimes they develop a little pouch which collects the poo and prevents it from being evacuated. Also happens to cats that get frequently constipated.
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just want to add something. Yesterday morning OH and I took Max to the vet to have him pts. The vet spent more than 40 minutes looking at Max and watching him walk around the consult room. He talked us out of it, saying that while Max didn't have long to live, that he thought with our care that he could still enjoy a bit longer. Old cats, like old people, often have multiple health problems which can be managed up to a point where they just can't any more. We are going day to day.
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One thing your vet could check Kate, this happened to Dragan. As cats get older sometimes they develop a little pouch which collects the poo and prevents it from being evacuated. Also happens to cats that get frequently constipated.
can you see this yourself or is it a vet inspection job? :thanks:
:hug:
:thanks: Teresa. Microlax apparently can increase phosphate - my vet says so, 2 others don't seem as worried. I have a tube to use if necessary but haven't dared yet. Max has normal phosphorus blood levels though so occasionally it may be ok.
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It's a vet job I am afraid
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perhaps, Kate, as you were ready to say goodbye to Max, only for your vet to say it's not yet time, you need to use that unexpected extra time to give him and yourselves a break by concentrating on the things that still work with him
lots of fuss, lots of love, and as little worrying as possible
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Sorry to hear that you and your OH thought it was Max's time yesterday Kate, your mind must be all over especially with your vet saying its not his time....
I agree with what Trigger has said! ;) :Luv: :hug:
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lots of fuss, lots of love, and as little worrying as possible
I can and am doing the first two, but not sure about the third! :hug:
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Think a extra large helping of these are needed :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: .
Lots of healing vibes for both boys too and hope they are aroung for a long while yet .
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:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: to you and lots of vibes too
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just want to add something. Yesterday morning OH and I took Max to the vet to have him pts.
glad the vet is still on your side Kate
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Awww hunnie, your vet sounds wonderful, hope you and Max have more quality time together, I know its heartbreaking when you're watching them constantly, I know its almost impossible, but if you know his time is near, just enjoy him, cuddle him, fuss him, let him know just how much you love him :hug: :hug:
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One thing your vet could check Kate, this happened to Dragan. As cats get older sometimes they develop a little pouch which collects the poo and prevents it from being evacuated. Also happens to cats that get frequently constipated.
Yes, my vet said something similar when we told her about Schui not going and when we described the details she said it is ok, some cats store their poo and she said not to worry about it, it was ok for him.
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It is Max's time we think. We have called the vet to come so we can say our goodbyes at home. My baby Max deteriorated overnight. I can't write any more.
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:hug:
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:hug: thinking of you xx
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Oh sweetheart, I have no words which can take away any of your pain, just know that I'm thinking of you, and if you need to chat, or anything at all, you know you can PM me, I know what you're going through honey xxxxx :hug: :hug:
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:hug:
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Please see thread Kate and Swampy's Max for latest update:(
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So sorry :hug: :hug: :hug:
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:( :(
:grouphug:
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I am so so sorry :hug: