Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat Health & Behaviour => Health & Behaviour General => Topic started by: ccmacey on March 04, 2007, 13:27:13 PM
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Hi everyone, just wanting to ask anyone do they have cats that are always cold? Ollie is cold all the time, he even feels cold to touch. He's always sitting on the window sill when the radiators are on and he roasts himself in front of the fire all night, I know this is normal for a cat to lay in front of the fire but he's always wanting to be near heat. Ollie has gingivitis and is on steroids so I thought it might have something to do with that? My other cats feel warm when I touch them, so thats where I'm getting the comparison from.
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He is not anaemic, is he?
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Dont know the vet has never said anything, but then again Ive never asked the vet if it could be down to his illness.
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You can tell if your cat is anaemic yourself, just look at gums etc.
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His gums are pink, going to have a word with the vet next time im there.
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i disagree you can tell if your cat in anaemic by looking at the gums, altho this can be a good indication its not an accurate test by any means.
RE the steroids, how long has he been on them and is it a fairly high dose ??
steroids can cause thinning of the skin and also you can get a steroid induced anaemia so i'd be pretty much looking to have a haematology blood sample ran and often it may be wise to have full biochemistry done aswell if on any meds for a longish length of time.
hope this helps, of course it may just be your cats preference to be very warm...cody i think feels the cold more than other cats ive had and he does seem to have thinner skin (and alot less fat LOL) also coz of his breed there isnt so much of an undercoat.
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He's been on steroids for most of his life now Lynn and he's 3 in july, he gets 5mg a day.
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defo full bloods cc in my opinion and if he were mine.
why is he on preds (not that thats nec a bad thing) and why does he need 5mg per day, often with preds they can wean it down to 1/2 every second day or 1 every second day etc and can often get the dosage down like that, ive known many an animal on preds but long term can get away with every few days.
also i'd be highly suspicious and curious as to what his blood test results would be, unless of course he's been done very recently.
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No he hasnt had his bloods done recently, he's on steroids because of the gingervitus and its bad.
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thats a strange one, i was expecting you to tell me he had dermatitis or asthma ?
has any invertigations been done for the cause of gingivitus ?? ie virus testing ? i'd say that for that condition im sure he could get the dosage reduced slightly and also what actually are the conditions of his teeth like ?? any suggestions to take them out ?
Are you in a postition to get the vet to do full bloods ?
if he has steriod induced anaemia its not something you'd want to ignore.
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he gets 5mg a day.
I would have thought that is a lot for such a long time.
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not a high dose for the initial dosing but yes ela for it to be a permanent without trying the reduced dosage i am puzzled by, preds is a funny one as it can cause adverse effect but at the same time a highly useful drug..and alot of time when used you have to weigh up the pros and cons ie cat with poor quality life due to illness of some sort V side effects of corticosteriods.
i would have thought cc might have been advised to atleast try 1 every second day or even 1 once per day then 1/2 every second day or some sort of regeime along that lines.
CC dont worry too much but you do need to iron out a few things with your vet. also has he ever been on a very extended course of high dosage antibiotics such as antirobe etc..this antibiotic is excellent for mouth and bone infections etc and can be doubled in dose if need be and on a longer than normal course safely.
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preds is a funny one as it can cause adverse effect but at the same time a highly useful drug..and alot of time when used you have to weigh up the pros and cons ie cat with poor quality life due to illness of some sort V side effects of corticosteriods.
That is exactly what we have had to do about my Jessica (my cat with a bum like a cows backside) weight up the pros and cons, quite simple without preds she would not still be here.
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and explain exactly what a cat with a bum like a cows backside is like and what caused it LOL
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Lynn, this post explains Ollies condition http://www.chaptanservices.com/purrs/index.php?topic=1441.0 (http://www.chaptanservices.com/purrs/index.php?topic=1441.0)
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and explain exactly what a cat with a bum like a cows backside is like and what caused it LOL
She has a bowel problem and for many years had every test known to cat and beast and no definite outcome. When she goes into the tray she lifts her tail and it looks like a cow does when passing poo. Hope that is graphic enough for you. ;D
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glad i had just finished my tea before i read that ela :rofl:
millys mum, ta i'll go and read now.
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Thanks for the advice Lynn, going to ask the vets if they will see about him being anemic. The strange thing is that 2 kittens that are of the same family have a mild gingivitis so i think it could be a hereditary thing and Ollie didn't have the best start in life, he came to me at 4 weeks old not even weened. He has had tests for fiv/ fivl at the private vets.
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hereditory ??? or have they been exposed to a virus or bacterial infection ??? ie did the mother have calici or chlamidia etc etc ?? sounds like she has passed something on if litter mates affected aswell.
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I don't know Lynn, the owner of Ollie's mother wasn't very clean, had loads of kids, that sort of person, the other 2 kittens that were affected came from Ollie's sister but she didn't have it as she belonged to my neighbour and when I told her she checked it out.
I thought it could of been that bad because of what he went through as a kitten, he wasn't weened and the mother was allowed out while she was nursing, so thought it could of been through lack of nutrients etc.
I also had 2 other cats when I got Ollie and within 2 weeks they both got very sick and 1 of them passed. All very suspicious to me and Ive never got to the bottom of it.
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Can't offer anything but am very interested in the steriod induced anaemia as My Linx has been on oral pred for a year and a half and inhaled for more than 2 years now. Please keep us posted and me and my 4 send purrs & prayers!
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iluvcritters.
what dosage has you puss been on ? Lots of cats can be on long term preds but normally you can get the dosage down (please read what ive written in past posts on this thread) I think its compulsary for any animal on long term meds they are blood tested at least every year and depending on the drugs/dosage perhaps more often than that.
I know for animals on long term meds they have to be seen legally every x months (usually 3 or 6 etc) before the vet keeps prescribing.
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CC have you organised the bloods etc yet ?
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At vets tomorrow. I take Ollie to the vets at least once a month so he is being checked over constantly.
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Good luck.
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Right my plan of action today is to get Ollie blood tested and swabed for Calci virus, Im just going to ask them to do it and hope I get a good response, the PDSA are on resources and dont seem willing to do anything else other than treat the cat at the time. And another reason its difficult for me is that when I suggest things they look at me like where are you getting this from, Well he is my cat and I care for him greatly and Im not going to be fobbed off anymore I want something done.
Oh do they have to keep the animal in for the day when doing blood tests? Do they have to be sedated?
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no they dont often need to be sedated and you could get the bloods taken and return home with ollie then they could contact you later in the day with the results.
He may get the sample taken from his jugular so dont be alarmed, it is the best place to take the bloods from.
good luck.
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What does it involve Lynn, so Im not too allarmed at what they are doing, Im squeamish.
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If its from his throat then he gets held and his head tilted gently upwards, the other person then clips a wee bit of hair off and takes the blood out of the vein in his neck. Its often less painful than the leg vein actually and the blood flow is much better so its quicker and less chance of the blood clotting before they get it into the tube.
they might do it from the vein in his front leg, simalarily someone holds him and raises the vein (does the job of a tournique on humans) and the vet or nurse will take the blood sample. if hes a good sized cat they might just do that, often those veins are smaller and theres less blood and the veins can bruise more easily..either way both are very routine.
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Omg, who's going to hold him while I faint?
Ollie is a small cat, he's only 8lb and has been that weight for years.
Im really put off now may have to go out of the room while its being done.
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the nurse would have held him cc.
they would / should be more than happy to do it whether you are in the room or not
(ps have you been yet , ive been out )
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Back from vets and no blood tests were done, vet had a look at his gums and eyes and said you would be able to tell if he was anemic by looking at them and they would be pale, which they wernt.
I said could he be tested for Calcia virus and vet said there is no point because even if he has got it there is no way of treating it so all I would gain from that would be knowing he's got that virus, and she said many cats have it.
We talked about treatments that could be done to improve his mouth condition and vet said about interferon, she said its very costly treatment and in all the cases she has worked with using this it has never made a difference.
Vet said if he's eating and drinking he's ok at the moment, and he's just being himself and not excluding himself from the others and generally he's doing fine.
He has been on antibiotics which seem to help him more than others have but this condition can only be controled and will never go away.
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He has been on antibiotics which seem
Can you refresh my memory, has the little one had its teeth out?
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well what an enthusiastic go getting through vet she seems to be NOT.
personally i'd go to a private vet hun and pay for the treatment and service you want. so is this vet going to leave him on 5mg preds everyday for good then without even considering alternate dosing etc
No ela i dont think any teeth have been removed yet and anyway the inflamation isnt just in his gums but all his mucous membrane linings of the mouth if i remember rightly.
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so is this vet going to leave him on 5mg preds everyday for good then without even considering alternate dosing etc
The question is Lynn how long is for good, possibly not long at all.
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ive got to tidy away kids toys and unload a boot load of grocery shopping but when i get a minute or two i am going to try and find out what dosage of preds is deemed acceptable with minimal side effects/contraindications
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Trust me if I had the funds I wouldn't be putting Ollie or myself through this, we don't need the stress.
Yes he will be on steroids for the foreseeable future, he cannot come off them.
no teeth have been removed, and its mostly the gums and lining that is inflamed, I noticed that his teeth had gone a yellow brown colour and the change has been quick, they were sort of white a few months ago.
Out of interest Ela, how many cats that have been in your care have had the op and its totally, I mean 100% cleared up and there has been no further problems?
I asked about his life expectancy and vet said it would be shorter as his body is working harder than a normal cats.
Ollie is 3 this year, how much longer will I have my baby. :'(
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I know of 5 and all 5 are better ;D
I would be interested to know about the long term dosage of preds too Lynn.
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Out of interest Ela, how many cats that have been in your care have had the op and its totally, I mean 100% cleared up and there has been no further problems
We have over the years dozens of cats who have had all teeth (apart from fangs) removed and no further problems. Of course we just don't know what is causing your little ones problems, but perhaps it is worth a go if everything else has failed. Cats manage remarkably well without their teeth. My Lucy's gums and mouth was in a terrible state no amount of medication would help, her gums were almost mushy, she had her teeth removed and was fine after that with no recurrence of any problems.
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When I have the money I will get his teeth out, but for now this is the most I can manage. :(
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I saw a bank advert yesterday where they round all your debits up to the next pound and then put that in a saving account, maybe you could do that for Ollie. And do a carboot for him as the weather improves.
Its a shame all the bad payers at the vets make them refuse credit, the people that suffer are those who are honest >:(
Have you had a quote for cheek teeth removal? So you know what your aiming for.
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I asked the private vets how much roughly would it be and they said it goes on the time it takes and they said it would take longer as his teeth are not falling out or breaking.
Believe me if I could do more for him it would be done, I think the treatment he's getting at the moment is better than getting no treatment at all.
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Sorry the vets weren't more proactive CC.
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I asked the private vets how much roughly would it be and they said it goes on the time it takes and they said it would take longer as his teeth are not falling out or breaking.
A friend of mine was recently quoted £300 for removal, it's not cheap :'(
The Proot had all his teeth removed (except one fang!) before we knew him and he had no problem at all eating, so am sure Ollie will be fine if he has the op in the future.
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A friend of mine was recently quoted £300 for removal, it's not cheap
I suppose it depends on where you live, possibly half that or less round here.
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If it were going to cost that much that wouldn't be a problem, but I think the vet was talking along the lines of £500 - £600. And I also have the added worry of it doing nothing at all for him and having to keep on with the steroids and antibiotics which cost £200 a month at a private vets which I know I couldn't afford indefinitely.
Thats why I need to know that its going to improve 100%, but there is no why of knowing this.
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CC, I'm so sorry the vet wasn't more helpful. £500-600 sounds an awful lot for teeth removal. I'd call all the vets in your area and compare prices. (I've had to do this before, and it can be a bit depressing, but worth it if you find somewhere you feel you can trust and won't charge too much.)
It is awful that so many rip off vets with payment plans that people who have every intention of paying don't get the option. :(
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Thats the point Jack I use the PDSA with Ollie and if the op wasnt sucsessful at a private vets I would still have to medicate him which I cannot afford to do for the rest of his life, The PDSA would not accept me back after going to a private vets you see.
Raising the cash if it is cheeper than £500 wouldnt be a problem but I have to think in the long run about the costs of the meds if the op dosnt work.
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f it were going to cost that much that wouldn't be a problem, but I think the vet was talking along the lines of £500 - £600. And I also have the added worry of it doing nothing at all for him and having to keep on with the steroids and antibiotics which cost £200
I have never paid anywhere near £200 for a dental including extractions. £200 for antibiotics and steroids, are they made with gold dust or something? I doesn't seem right to me that a cat should be on constant antibiotics.
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How frustrating. I know the PDSA PetAid fund has some huge loopholes - I was unaware for instance, that if your animal is treated for something and then a related problem occurs you have absolutely no coverage. I think that's awful.
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if the pdsa wont do it then they obviously dont think the cat will be in any pain or discomfort or they would ,
i wouldnt feel guilty about not being able to raise that kind of money ccmacey
it sounds like ur doing everything u possibly can for him .
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The PDSA wont do the op because it costs too much.
What was that no coverage for related things about Jack? I think Ollie is registered there for life now and all illnesses will be seen too, as long as I still qualify.
Ela he was on drops every week and they cost more than the tablets, they were £30, and of course the costs of the steriod injection when he needed it, it was very hard to get tablets into him at that time.
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Ela he was on drops every week and they cost more than the tablets, they were £30, and of course the costs of the steriod injection when he needed it, it was very hard to get tablets into him at that time.
I must be think where does the £200 a month come from.
Also why would they rather spend £200 a month when perhaps 1 dental may sort it.
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The meds he's on at the PDSA come nowhere near that cost, thats what I was paying at the private vets, the private vets greatly over charge.
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Right, I still wonder why they would give perscription drugs for life when perhaps a dental may solve many of the problems. I think Lynn is going to look into the steroid situation, isn't she? Usually vets do not like to give steroids long term because Io the problems that itself brings so I am very surprised they would just want to keep a cat on them. Also surely antibiotics after a time fail to do any good.
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They are doing more good than none at the moment.
The point is If I get the op done at a private vets and it doesnt solve the problem the PDSA will not take me back on and I cant cover the costs of his meds every month if he still needs them.
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The point is If I get the op done at a private vets and it doesnt solve the problem the PDSA will not take me back on and I cant cover the costs of his meds every month if he still needs them.
P
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Ela you needing the loo? Whats the P mean?
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Perhaps he could have all his teeth out and if there is still a problem say they fell out ;D
Alternatively you could ask to speak to the head of the clinic and explain that you would like to try and save them money so are prepared to go private to have a dental, but if that fails to help can they still treat the little one. I know it is a shame to lose the teeth for nothing so perhaps another vet opinion may be an option.
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Ela you needing the loo? Whats the P mean?
Wooppppppps I started to type and then it disappeared know where to, I posted it :rofl:
What some folks will do to get an extra post.
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Hum maybe I could say his teeth fell out, not lol.
I have been seeing the seniour vet at the PDSA and asking about being able to come back after the op if needs be is a good idea, but of course he could say yes at the time just to get me out of there.
Think Im going to try and twist that so he ask's me about that, thanks Ela.
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If they agree get it on paper :shify:
Jack Spratts suggestion of phoning all vets in your area is a good one, £500 - £600 does sound excessive and i live in Essex where fees are higher >:(
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The PDSA won't do the op because it costs too much.
Eh? If you're covered by them for this problem, there shouldn't be an issue as far as I'm aware.
What was that no coverage for related things about Jack? I think Ollie is registered there for life now and all illnesses will be seen too, as long as I still qualify.
I'm just giving information I was given at a vet that runs the PDSA scheme in our area. He said that because my cat had had problems with her ear(and wasn't covered by the Pet Aid scheme), and then needed to come back for an operation on it, he doubted the PDSA would pay for it it when she was covered by them.
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The issue is its an expensive op and I have been told by the PDSA they wont do it.
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Blimey, I've never heard them say that with regards to an animal that's covered by them. Then what's the point to the cover?!
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The issue is its an expensive op and I have been told by the PDSA they wont do it.
I know someone who had their cat registered at a private vet under PDSA and the cat had a dental paid for by PDSA.
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They said the would do a dental but not full removal of the teeth and roots, they were going to file the teeth down to below the gum line and leave the roots in, which sounds even more painfull to me and it could cause related problems.
Dont shot the messinger Im only telling ya's what Im getting told. :shy:
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Dont shot the messenger Im only telling ya's what I'm getting told. :shy:
Bless. Nope most definately not your fault. If they say they're covering Ollie they should be doing whatever is required to aid his health as far as I know. Have you called PDSA HQ?
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Well Im now seeing the senior vet as I wrote an email to the PDSA explaining the situation and of course they sent it to him. We had words in the room and he left me feeling like a child and also reminded me that they are a charity and cannot just go giving those sorts of funds to any case.
So Im now feeling like I cant suggest anything cos it gets shot in my face, the vet even said yesterday is there no way you can get it done at a private vets.
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You can do what you want at a private vets iff you can afford it, but am sure thats not what you meant ;D
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We had words in the room and he left me feeling like a child and also reminded me that they are a charity and cannot just go giving those sorts of funds to any case.
Know what you mean. I had the same sort of "discussion" with the vet I go to with my PDSA cover. Makes you feel awful doesn't it?
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They said the would do a dental but not full removal of the teeth and roots, they were going to file the teeth down to below the gum line and leave the roots in,
Sounds to me like that would take longer than removal. Then again what do I know.
Also as previously advised the vet will only remove the teeth if they think that is the problem and if so it would be cheaper in the long run than provide tablets for life. As we all know antibiotics only work for a time then for the effect is not so great and steroids are not good long term. and cause other problems. Are you sure you cannot go to another vet for a second opinion.
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I will get back to this later its exhausting me now. :shy:
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Ela I think this has all been covered on this thread before if you read all the thread.
I think cc is at the end of her options financially, so is stuck with PDSA and the bad care they seem to provide :(
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i think i did mention before but if they take the teeth off past gum level, very often in cats the roots cause no further pain and problems, they seem far less likely to have problems than dogs and certainly humans. If the pdsa has up to date equipment such as electric drills with different bitts then that procedure would be very quick. whereas gouging out healthy teeth will be prolonged, very painful, more tricky etc etc.
I would do abit of reasearch and speak to a few different vets about roots being left in cats and what they thought of the procdure suggested to leave them. if the pdsa said they would do that then i'd consider it.
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I will get back to this later its exhausting me now.
Hope you had a good sleep and are now refreshed
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Nope still knackered.
Lynn I have been looking on the net about the roots been left in and it says it could cause further problems, Its in the too soon to go to the bridge in general section. Thats why I don't know what to do as I'm not a vet and this is really messing my head up, I cant think anymore about it. And I also don't want that done as people have said its barbaric and I'm also scared in case Ollie does not get on well and dies, I'm not ready for that yet.
http://www.chaptanservices.com/purrs/index.php?topic=1441.0
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I'm not ready for that yet.
I can understand that, I think we never are. I do feel for you as I expect you don't know which way to turn.
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Yes brain cant cope with it anymore, I dont know what to do.
If I had 110% reasurance that the op would be sucsessful and Ollie would no longer have the problem and didnt need the meds for the rest of his life I would go for it. But there is no way of knowing that.
I also paraniod that they will do something and say he didnt make it through the op just to get me off their backs, and how would I know the truth?
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I also paraniod that they will do something and say he didnt make it through the op just to get me off their backs, and how would I know the truth?
Sadly, you wouldn't. There has to be a degree of believe in the vet for you to agree to anything when caring for your pet. It's hard I know.
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also paraniod that they will do something and say he didnt make it through the op just to get me off their backs, and how would I know the truth?
I am sure they would not do that, even a vet I would not take a during flea to is beyond doing that I think.
If I had 110% reasurance that the op would be sucsessful and Ollie would no longer have the problem and didnt need the meds for the rest of his life I would go for it.
Unfortunately you could never have that reassurance for any situation. Sometimes when we leave our little one at the vets it is just a fingers crossed thing. I know sometimes I have never known what the outcome will for sure be but have needed to take the chance. Fortunately in all cases all has turned out for the best.
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Trust the PDSA? No. Trust the private vets? Yes, 110%.
I feel like the PDSA give no moral support and dont try to lead me in a direction thats for the best, leaving me to make the desisions and I dont know whats for the best, Im not been given the pro's and con's which is making it so very hard to decide. :(
Money is not an issue, thats if its not £500+, anything under that I could manage (well not manage it would just leave me with more debt but I could raise it) :shy:
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How come u dont trust the pdsa ?
i trust them just as much as any vet ,theyve all studied the same and all have the same quailfcations
the pdsa saved my mollys life when we first got her .
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I feel like the PDSA give no moral support and dont try to lead me in a direction thats for the best,
Right we have gone round and round in circles about this, all I will say is what I would do if Ollie was mine. I would go to a different private vet for a second opinion and then take it from there. You can't go on as you are or you will end up driving yourself mad with the worry.
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Forever .................please read all the thread and the associated thread that cc mentioned and you will understand the reason
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just read the other thread ....i can see why now
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Mad with worry? No passed that Its driving me insane.
Its got to the point where I cant trust any vet on this matter now. Will take him for a second opinion though. Also going to ask the PDSA if I go private and the op is not successful will they take me back, I need that guarantied for Ollie's sake.
Ela I have had a second opinion form the PV I use so this would be getting a 3rd opinion.
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the articles i guess would HAVE to say that roots left in COULD cause further problems because of course that is the case, but i have worked with / in 5 different veterinary practices and there are many times due to the anatomy of cats teeth and what happens to them when they get neck lesions etc that roots are / can be left in the gum and MOST of the time there are very little probems occuring afterwards.
Now i am defiantely not speaking about 100% healthy teeth and roots so whether that would make a difference i am unsure.
TELL ME in a day to day senario how is ollie in himself. If the treatments are working and keeping him fairly stable and happy then i would DEFINATELY BE having him blood tested every 6 - 12 mnths to make sure basics like haematology / biochem parameters are ok but theres no point in getting so worked up if he's not actually "ILL" at the present time.
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Will post in a bit, dinner time.
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Will post in a bit, dinner time
Lucky you.
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Ollie in himself is a quite cat, hardly plays with the others (dont know if thats just him?). When he opens his mouth he sort of gaggs and sometimes makes a funny noise, like he has opened his mouth too far and its hurt him.
If he goes outside he will go no further than the garden and most of the time he will not go out at all, he's not a very curious cat, I dont know if this has anything to do with his condition?
When his mouth is really sore he will just sit and look sad and depressed and it makes me feel so sorry for him.
This is the only way I can explain how he is. :shy:
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When his mouth is really sore he will just sit and look sad and depressed and it makes me feel so sorry for him
That is so sad, :( anyway let us know what they say at the vets.
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If you told the vet you could pay £500 and if it was any more could you then pay by instalments they may agree. I cant think it would be more than that tho.
I like the way your PDSA vet says go private >:( if they agree to still treat Ollie even if you do have him done private then make sure you get a written confirmation of it.
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cant think it would be more than that tho.
I would hope not, honestly as previously advised I have never paid even £200 for a full dental (fangs excepted)
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Did you get that as an estimation or was it a set price? Ela. And also you get discount for being a rescue dont you?
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Although I could raise the money its not going to be like pulling a rabbit out of a hat. £500 Is steep never mind going over that. I also have a baby on the way so have to think about it debt wise.
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Did you get that as an estimation or was it a set price? Ela. ?
No because till they actually know what they are dealing with they cannot. However, in your case if it was complete removal (fangs excepted) they may have an idea although you never know if some teeth may be more difficult than others. But I am sure they could give you an estimate for a full extraction which should be there or there abouts.
And also you get discount for being a rescue dont you
We get a 10 % discount but even then the full price before discount has not been £200
As I have said before I cannot see the PDSA problem especially as there was a chance that they could then save money by not supplying drugs for an indefinite period. Is it possible that you could offer to pay the PDSA the full cost of the op, then they are in a win, win situation, money for op and a possible saving. If it doesn't' work they have lost nothing. Equally it would be a shame to put Ollie through the op for nothing. So of course you will need another opinion to ensure removal is the right course of action and giving Ollie a chance of a quality life.
You have mentioned that when his mouth is really sore he will just sit and look sad and depressed; therefore the treatment he is on is not alleviating the problem completely. So if is thought a dental will not solve the problem something else needs to be done so he is not in pain and discomfort.
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I have asked the vets for an estimation and they said it could be anything up to £500 as it goes on the time and the healthyness of the teeth, they said if they are pretty healthy teeth and are not rotting or falling out it will take longer, so therefore more cost.
Ollie's teeth arnt rotting or falling out.
What you mean by something else needs to be done if I dont think the dental will work?
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they said if they are pretty healthy teeth and are not rotting or falling out it will take longer
Funnily enough Companion Care vets quoted someone £500 for 2 dentals, They rang me and I advised them to go to my vet who is not the cheapest in our town and it cost them less than £300
Obviously I can only talk about my cases. My Jessica had purrfect teeth they were not rotting or falling out, her problem was her gums.
quote]What you mean by something else needs to be done if I don't think the dental will work?[[/quote]
I don't know really but I don't they they are being very fair if they know 'When his mouth is really sore he will just sit and look sad and depressed '. Surely they cannot leave Ollie in pain its not right.
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Yes the op would be done in 2 stages maybe thats why £500?
Do you mean PTS Ela? They have already suggested that. :( Thats what made me really angry and lost my trust.
The PDSA vets say they have seen worse case's than Ollie's thats why they are only doing what they are doing at the moment, although every time I take him and they look at his mouth they say it is really bad :-:
I mean does the cats mouth have to be falling apart before they will do a dental, prevention is better than cure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Ela did you get pm earlier on about Sebastian??
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Ela did you get pm earlier on about Sebastian??
No
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, It was a long one and cant be bothered to write it again.
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cc if it makes you feel any better i wouldnt be allowed to spend 500 on one of my boys on one single condition with no gaurantee of cure. Having said that he would perhaps be more likely to let me spend it in a younger cat i suppose (cody is insured thank god, as were the older boys till i had to cancel )
from what i gathered cc the pdsa said they would do a dental .. was that to remove roots aswell ?? or what have the pdsa offered again ?
also there is high hopes pinned on this dental when both pdsa and private vets if i am correct in thinking have said they dont know if it will alleviate the problems as its the whole lining of his mouth isnt it.
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why wouldnt u be allowed to spend £500 lynn?
how old is ur cat cc? u must be going throu such a stressful time with all this going on
u dont need it while ur expecting . :hug:
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because i dont earn the money forever.
however if i was working then thats entirely different so let hope the boys are fairly healthy for the next 2 years.
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Lynn yes its his gums really, so no chance of removing them, but I keep getting told problems with the teeth cause the gingivitis. I know part of it is caused by his immune system attacking his gums. So thats why I think removing the teeth may do no good, its not just a case of gingivitis.
Ollie is 3 in July and been suffering with this from about 6 months old, he's been on steroids and anti-b's since then.
Lynn I would spend the money if I knew it was going to be a success, but no guarantee.
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oh i see ,well he is still a very young cat so if u could raise the money then id defo give it a go and pay at the private vets
u wont have nothing to lose (apart from the money )
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Yes but that is not just the point. I have been talking to others in more detail and its not just a case of having his teeth out. Dont wanna start going through it again cos its a long story. :tired:
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Ela did you get pm earlier on about Sebastian??
Sorry I have just found it, I has so many messages yesrteday I must have missed it.
Many vets will not expect you to take a cat for a MOT a few days before the op but do it on the day. However, in the case of a cat that you can only take when you can get it I am sure any vet would MOT and op on the same day. Please remember that while ever he remains unneutered he is a danger not only to himself but your cats and the cats in the neighbourhood. Do you still have a voucher and is there a valid date on it? If it is past that is not a problem
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CC i agree with you and have a nagging feeling that having his teeth out would not be the end of the story.
have you tried other things on top of what you are doing like that plaque away or logic gel every day ?
also could you look into getting info/advice/meds from homeopathic vets ???
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Ela the vets I use do a pre- op check then book them in when they have the time to do it, it was a week later after I had Harry's pre-op to the actual neutering. They never do it on the same day as they could have a load on. I will phone her when I strengthen my ears, as they may get bit off, hopefully not. :shy:
Lynn I too feel the op wouldn't do much for him as its not just a case of gingivitis and the vets are convinced his teeth are fine.
Alternative medicine vets where could I find 1 of those? And where could I get plaque off or the logic gel from? Are these ok to use without the vets consent?
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yes both those products are non pom ... abit like toothpaste but can be used without brushing.
as for alternatives treatments, sorry i know they are out there somewhere but you'd have to hunt for that yourself.
as for vets not doing pre op checks on the day of or within a couple of days of the op because they "have a load on" is a poor excuse.
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Ela the vets I use do a pre- op check then book them in when they have the time to do it, it was a week later after I had Harry's pre-op to the actual neutering
Anything could happen in a week between pre op check and op.
not just a case of gingivitis and the vets are convinced his teeth are fine.
You may well be right but as previously advised all the cats i have ever had that needed a full dental, had no problem with their teeth just their gums.
Alternative medicine vets where could I find 1 of those? And where could I get plaque off or the logic gel from? Are these ok to use without the vets consent?
Your own vet should be able to guide you to the nearest homeaphatic vet.
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http://www.dr-addie.com/stomatitis.html (http://www.dr-addie.com/stomatitis.html) have you seen this website before? Maybe they might help Ollie in return for using his results as they wish. Worth a shot.
Quote from above (its the only statistic i can find) The treatment with the highest reported success rate for this condition remains complete removal of all teeth and especially the roots by a specialised veterinary dentist. A good veterinary dentist can achieve cure rates as high as 80%.
My simons mouth (gums & cheeks ) get flare ups because he has a weak immune system, if he gets another my vet wants his cheek teeth out. He specialises in cats and says it would resolve it. He got his first flare up at 8/9 months :(
Homeopathic treatment can be as expensive as conventional methods, i do think some work tho.
Have you ever had Antirobe for his mouth? Its the best for oral use and would probably do him better than noroclav or amoxicillin.
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Yes have seen that site b4, how could they do the op in return for the results?
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well done millys mum.
I'd say that CC would be best composing an email ( with help if need be) and sending it to dr addie explaining the situation about being afraid to commit to the money it a poor outcome or no change was the result.
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Lynn Im not worried about spending the money and it not working, Im worried that he still may need meds after then it would of been a waste of money.
Are these people american?
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Good luck CC, I do hope you can eventually get this sorted for both your sakes. Not sure where Dr ADdie is to be honest.
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( with help if need be)
Is that an offer Lynn,?
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Lynn Im not worried about spending the money and it not working, Im worried that he still may need meds after then it would of been a waste of money.
:rofl: thats basically the same CC
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Lynn Im not worried about spending the money and it not working, Im worried that he still may need meds after then it would of been a waste of money.
I kept reading it above and reading it and thought I had lost it, then I read your reply lunn then knew it was not just me.
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Ha ha dont take the pee, ya's know Im a bit daft.
So do I just email this person through this site and he may help, no good if its american.
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Ha ha dont take the pee, ya's know Im a bit daft.
We weren't, the post was a bit confusing thats all and it doen't take much to confuse us, well me anyway, I better not answer for Lynn. ;D
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no your all right ela, we may be quite a few years apart in age but my brain doesnt function much better :rofl: god help me in 20 years :Crazy:
CC i just typed dr addie into google and it comes up...SHE is based in glasgow vet school i think...google it and have a more thorough look for yourself before sending anything..sorry i'd get addys for you etc but im just not functioning well enough today.
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So we all daft here then? :evillaugh:
Thats fine Lynn, I will have a look.
Ps I confused myself with that post too ha ha.
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no i'm not daft at all...i just mainly have poor memory since having the kids with the odd spell of confusion :Crazy:
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Yep me too and more to come, I think my brain will be moving home soon. :shy:
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I think 80% is a good rate.
CC i remember you saying it cost £200 a month for Ollies current treatment at your private vet. If Ollie was one of the 20% and needed to continue on steroids you can buy them online for 5p each, thats £15.50 a month and a consultation charge every 3 or 6 months to get further prescriptions. I think you should try to get some Antirobe from the PDSA and see if they make him more comfy for the time being.
It bothers me that they are happy to just leave him on steroids knowing it will damage his health & isnt actually helping that much >:( has there been any attempt at reducing his dose to see if he stays the same?
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It bothers me that they are happy to just leave him on steroids knowing it will damage his health & isnt actually helping that much
That is one of my concerns, especially as I know that many vets are not happy for cats to be on steroids for any length of time.
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No he's been on 5mg since he's started on them, will ask the vet about that though. See I know nothing about these things so Im just presuming the vet is right. :shy:
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i seem to remember me questioning the antibiotics a while back and suggesting a prolonged dose of antirobe, this can be safely doubled in dosage.
also..bottom line is
ollie isnt overly happy (or atleast thats the impression given) it has been said he is just a quieter cat and part of that may be the case, my older boys are pretty quiet (apart from meal times LOL) but they were slightly more in my face when they were younger. Often is the case a quiet cat will be like that due to stress/pain/illness/unhappiness. Are you able to work out what bracket ollie falls under cc ??
I think you need to set yourself a clear plan of action ..you have spoken to pdsa vets, you have spoken to private vets. I can understand the pdsa not blood testing him if he appears clinically healthy due to reasourses (i disagree with that decision entirely and as he is on long term medication he SHOULD be bloodtested ATLEAST 1 x per year) If this was my cat i'd be taking him to a private vet and paying for those bloods before the weeks end was out (if the long term steriods have affected him this could be part of why he is so quiet and seems miserable on some days).
Decide what you are going to do after that bloods...you know there are no gaurantees with the dental but it is one of your few options available..was interferon suggested at some point ???? (i cant remember)
You will need to decide on how long you are prepared to let ollie go on like this, it may be he isnt nearly as bad as it has sounded on here but altho no one wants to see a young apparently healthy cat pts due to mouth problems you cant reliistically allow him to trudge along being miserable so you may have to face up to the worst case senario no matter how hard that is or how much you dont want to think about it.
PS this post was in no way meant to upset or offend but i thought having it in black and white so to speak would help prioratise the actions to be taken.
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[qoute]PS this post was in no way meant to upset or offend but i thought having it in black and white so to speak would help prioratise the actions to be taken.[/quote]
I agree with your post lynn, a while ago I wrote this topic is going around in circles, now it has also gone side to side, up and down and corner to corner. While ever we continue to discuss and re-discuss little Ollie continues to suffer. Something needs to be done NOW.
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I will talk to the vet next time and say about these things, down side is having the resources to do it private. Im seeing the senior vet next time so he knows more about Ollies case.
Ollies is quiter than the others but he's not that bad that I should be thinking about PTS. I wasnt offended by that as its been suggested before by a vet who dosnt know jack in my eyes.
The tables he's on are stabilising his condition and he's not getting as down because he dosnt get ill as often as he used to, although his mouth is still sore. They changed the anti-b's and they are doing more good than the others were.
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will talk to the vet next time and say about these things, down side is having the resources to do it private. Im seeing the senior vet next time so he knows more about Ollies case.
Can I ask when is next time please?
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3 weeks time, unless I need to take him before.
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I think I will retire gracefully from this topic, because otherwise I fear it may be disgracefully.
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by a vet who dosnt know jack in my eyes.
but presumably a damned sight more than you or I !!! (5 or 6 years at vet school normally does enhance their knowledge some what)
down side is having the resources to do it private
i thought you could find the money if you had to ?
he dosnt get ill as often as he used to, although his mouth is still sore
How long would you like to suffer with a permanently sore mouth --- thats what i was meaning by prioritise and plan of action.
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CC I'm sorry, I am posting here late, but I have been reading this thread for a couple days. It has, as has been said before, been going round in circles.
Essentially you have a cat that could be seriously ill, please get something done about it. I hate to think that a cat is suffering needlessly while all this to-ing and fro-ing is going on. You need to put Ollie first and get this treated. If you have the funds, the please do so but give him a chance.
Valuable precious time is being wasted.
I am saying this only because of what I have read so far, and its not intended to offend, but please, get him treated. Don't wait three weeks, please.
I feel for you because you want to do whats best but aren't sure whats right to do for Ollie. So do all of us for our babes, we love them and want whats best for them, I know thats what you want too.
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CC i was just thinking..could you take some pics of ollie because a) ive never seen him yet spoken so much about him and b) if ya get your oh to help you, you could take some pics of his teeth and gums ... this might let us see better what we are talking about.
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Ruth - the points you have said have been brought up time and time again, this is just going round in circles and the only thing it is going to acheive is CC getting very stressed and worked up (talking from experience), which isn't going to help Ollie - she has explained why it isn't as simple as just going to the private vet and doing the op.
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Then Desley what precisely is the answer. If its going round in circles and the solution doesnt work, what is helping Oliie?
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Dont' know, at the end of the day, only CC can make that decision, she is the one living with him day in day out and knows what he is like. I just think there is no point continuously telling her to go ahead and do the op when she has told us what her reservations are on it. My only suggestion is to see if there is a friendly local rescue who can recommend their vet and see if a third vet can tell her definitely one way or the other if the op will work - if it wont, and he will still be in pain afterwards, I personally wouldn't put my cat through a full dental, it takes ages for their gums to harden up, although my experience was with a 13 year old, so might not be as hard on a youngster.
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but the point is i dont think even god himself can give a gaurantee. so whether the odds are 50 or 80% a decision needs to be made..i this was something like cancer there wouldnt be months and months to ponder over the decision and dont think that long should be taken.
CC can/will you speak to the pdsa and ask if at all possible they could try and remove some/all the teeth including the roots but do half the mouth or even 1/4 of the mouth at a time (blood tests should defo be done before ga considering his meds) and could you suggest making a considerable contribution to the pdsa.
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No, there aren't any guarantees, but at the end of the day, forums are about giving advice and support, we can't make the decisions for the owners, and there is no point going over the same old thing, it doesn't help the poor cat in question. I do think there may be a possibility of getting a cheaper quote than £500 though, but I think that is realistically the only route left, I think we have exhausted everything else now, and the final decision rests with CC, regardless of what we think should be done
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Yes Im not going to pester anyone anymore about this cos its just going nowhere. So thats all I can do and I'll just have to go along with the advice the vets give, wether I like it or not.
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whatever..i just hope ollie doesnt suffer too badly for however long a life he has.
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Good luck with whatever decision you make about what needs to be done to help Ollie, CC.
At the end of the day, that's what we all have to do; decide what we feel is in the best interests of an animal we love a great deal.
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Ollie has recently had a steroid and an antibiotic jab, it seems to be working. ;D All the saliva around his mouth totally cleared up the next day and the area is still clean, his breath is not so much of a stench anymore. He seems to be doing good with this and has even started having his mad moments again :)
The vet has said he has Stomitus and its the worst case HE had seen :( But I'm glad these jabs are doing some good for him.
I think Ollie is relieved too because he doesn't have to have his tablets.
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awwww im pleased he seems to be improving cc
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Great news CC, especially when it wasn't looking to good a while ago. Lets hope he keeps on getting better. :Luv:
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Thanks peeps :Luv: Ollie is better after the jabs but he will still have this for the rest of his life. :(
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So pleased he is feeling better ;D
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Glad there is an option though CC.
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I would just like to say CC :thanks: for restarting this thread on the topic you originally started. It makes it so much easier to grasp the full implictions instead of needing to read a number of different named topics about the same situation.
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Argh! Ollie has reverted back to kittenhood and he's being a very naughty boy. He was a very naughty kitten, never letting up and as he has been ill for a while its all going to come out now :shy: He keeps diving all over the other cats, Ted mostly and he's even biting them, I think they are getting fed up with him.
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perhaps this was the real ollie all along and the steriods are at last giving some deserving relief.
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Yep, he's still going strong and no horrid salava or scabs forming around his mouth ;D Its been near a month now I can see his mouth is still sore looking inside but he's getting back to his
old young self ;D
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It does sound as if Ollie can be himself again. I'm so glad the jabs are working for him. The other cats will probably make their feelings known to him sooner or later.
Good news :)
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That's good news! Glad Ollies is more himself and is acting more kittenish. Sounds like he's much happier in himself.
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So pleased that Ollie is being naughty and himself, he deserves this after all he has been through ;D
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Aww thanks peeps. :Luv:
I know he deserves better and thats what he's getting now. But I fear a lot more naughtiness to come :evillaugh:
He has even been playing "cat fishing" with my son. ;D He's truly a different cat :)
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Am glad he is seeming so much better.