Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK

Cat Health & Behaviour => Health & Behaviour General => Topic started by: kp76 on January 21, 2009, 18:21:57 PM

Title: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 21, 2009, 18:21:57 PM
Ok guys here's one that has been bothering me for a few days now. I have 2 cats, both use the same litter tray. Over the last few days i've noticed that Storm has been producing dark coloured urine into the wood based litter, far darker than Alfie's & also she seems to only be producing a little bit. Any idea's why? A couple of days ago she also passed a firm poo but it turned runny part way through. Could this be connected?
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: MrsR on January 21, 2009, 18:33:42 PM
Have you changed the food at all?
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Debsymiller (Rufus' mum) on January 21, 2009, 18:37:26 PM
It sounds like she may have a urinary infection like cystitis if she is only doing a bit at a time and it's darker. Is she going very regularly?
You probably need to get her to a vet ASAP so she can have antibiotics before it gets too painful for her. Having had a cat who suffered very badly with urinary problems, I was advised by the vets that a dodgy tum can often accompany a water problem.
Poor puss  :hug: the antibiotics will help the problem very quickly so she should be back to normal soon
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Millys Mum on January 21, 2009, 18:48:24 PM
A vet check is very good idea, take a sample if you can get one  ;) or they can collect one whilst your there, have it checked for crystals.
I would also suggest you add a 2nd tray, as stress is the main cause of bladder probs  :tired:
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 21, 2009, 18:50:02 PM
I haven't changed her food recently. She's not going frequently either. I think she went for the first time about an hour ago, but i can't 100% certain. I'll pop into the vets in the morning, it's just over the road.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Millys Mum on January 21, 2009, 18:55:39 PM
If shes holding it in too long then it will be extra strong and then increase her chances of problems, try an extra tray with different litter and see if she goes more often
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 21, 2009, 18:56:43 PM
I doubt i'll be able to get a sample off her. She's got a collar on for a shoulder wound & gets spooked when people 'creep' up behind her. Will treatment cost alot? I've just been made redundant & haven't got round to sorting insurance out for them yet because money's tight.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Debsymiller (Rufus' mum) on January 21, 2009, 19:06:28 PM
The vets will be able to give you special litter which you can get a sample from- clever stuff! I would imagine it won't be too expensive if it's a case of antibiotics but enquire with your vets as they all charge differently. It really depends on what the problem is and if it's easy to diagnose or if she needs additional tests.

It may be worth you getting your pet insurance sorted out online, they will be able to give you instant cover and you can pay a small amount each month by DD
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 21, 2009, 19:14:34 PM
Can you recommend any insurers that cover most of the bases? Pet Plan seem quite expensive.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Rosella moggy on January 21, 2009, 19:28:48 PM
Axa.  Still not cheap but was best value last time I spent what seemed like a month researching it  ;)

Most insurances will not cover any illlness that develops in 1st 2 weeks
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 21, 2009, 19:57:44 PM
Thanks i'll have a look at AXA.  I've just had a brief look at money supermarket. M&S seem to do a good one. Has anyone got experience of them?
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Bonkers Mad!!! on January 21, 2009, 20:38:01 PM
My Merlin had cytitis just before xmas and his antiB's and consultation came to £42 (£47 but i get a reduced consultation for being such a good customer  :rofl:).  all vets vary so thats just to give you an idea.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 21, 2009, 20:46:19 PM
Thanks for the price guidance. I can afford that. Storms still eating so i'm guessing eventually what goes in will have to come out.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Rosella moggy on January 21, 2009, 21:41:38 PM
If you use the search facility you'll fnd a number of threads that discuss insurance. 

Quite a few on this site were with M&S for a while when Axa were their Underwriters.  M&S premiums then went through the roof and policy altered when they changed underwriters along the lines that you have to check with their vet nurse before using out of hours vet and policy excess increased (used to be nil!).  I would guess Axa will be cheaper than M&S.  I can recommend Axa for paying up in a timely manner with no fuss also.

I think I'm right in saying the cover originally offered by M&S is the same as Axa offer now and is cheaper especially for older cats as Axa's excess does not alter based on age.  You need to bear in mind that chopping and changing for best deals can be problematic if pud becomes ill as next insurance company will not cover existing conditions so the idea is to choose a company that are likely to continue offering pet insurance.  That is one reason people like Petplan as they are in the pet insurance market for the long haul but I think they are expensive and excess too high.

Still not getting any commission from Axa  >:(  ;)
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 21, 2009, 21:51:23 PM
Thanks for that great advice Rosella. I'll def give the insurance search a go & look into AXA tomorrow. I'll also pop into the vets & see if they want to see Storm. I don't think it's anything serious, she's eating, drinking, playing & sleeping ok. I know they hide it well but they haven't changed. Just her wee.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 22, 2009, 10:52:45 AM
Hi guys just a quick update. Storm is going to the vets in half an hour. Fingers crossed it's nothing serious.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Janeyk on January 22, 2009, 10:54:53 AM
Best of luck for Storm xx
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Leanne on January 22, 2009, 11:11:29 AM
Fingers crossed for you  :hug:

Was it blood in the urine?
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 22, 2009, 15:02:20 PM
Well we've been to the vets - going back tomorrow afternoon.

The vet thinks it's strange that Storm isn't wanting to go to the loo all the time if it is Cystitis. Her bladder is very full & i have to try & get a sample of urine off her so it can be checked. Easier said than done as she's not going much. Could there be a reason why she's holding on????

As a precaution the vet has given Storm an antibiotic injection so fingers crossed that should help.

Thanks for the well wishes.  :hug:
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Leanne on January 22, 2009, 15:41:02 PM
Could it be stress and she is holding on??

I know this is what my Jess was doing he was holding himself until he HAD to go as he was so full, it was all stress related
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 22, 2009, 16:46:27 PM
It could be, bless her she's been wearing a collar since before Xmas, i've been taking it off during the day but i'm wondering if all the taking it off & putting it on could be causing the problem.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Millys Mum on January 22, 2009, 18:43:14 PM
She could be holding it in if she doesnt like sharing a tray.


Why do vets faff around with katkor when it can be sorted out then and there?  :tired: If a cat has a stress problem being stalked by an intent human when it wants the toilet isnt going to help :brick:
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 22, 2009, 23:04:24 PM
Whats katkor? How would they cure it straight away? I've got 'special' litter for her to use. That way i can collect her sample, no stalking needed. I can always tell when she's been cos she scratches the kitchen cupboard doors when she's finished. I've just got home & her bladder still feels full.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Leanne on January 23, 2009, 08:56:15 AM
Katkor is the special litter to collect a urine sample.

I've only ever had one successful urine sample collection with it.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 23, 2009, 15:35:10 PM
Well they've taken her in as an emergency to sedate her, try & get some urine & do some tests on it. I'm just waiting for a phone call now.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Leanne on January 23, 2009, 16:12:04 PM
Oh no poor Storm, I hope everything is okay  :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Den on January 23, 2009, 16:14:55 PM
Eeeeep, fingers crossed for you both. Having just gone through something similar I really feel for you  :hug:
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Millys Mum on January 23, 2009, 17:26:25 PM
I hope Storm is ok  :hug:

I've got 'special' litter for her to use. That way i can collect her sample, no stalking needed. I can always tell when she's been cos she scratches the kitchen cupboard doors when she's finished.

Many cats wont use katkor, i would need about 10 packets to convince my lot to try it as they have to dig alot before peeing and theres barely anything in one bag  :tired:
The quick method is for the vet to take a sample directly from the bladder, its over and done with very quickly and the urine isnt contaminated in anyway.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 23, 2009, 17:39:59 PM
Ok guys she's back. It was a urine infection causing the problem. I'm suprised by how undrowsy she is. My next problem is how on earth does a person on their own get 5, yes 5, tablets a day into a very strong cat?
Any advice gratefully recieved.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Millys Mum on January 23, 2009, 19:44:34 PM
Im glad shes back home now  ;D
Whats she on?

Is she a good eater? You can wrap tablets in cheddar or primula or chewy treats such as webbox sticks if not then you need to just be firm and get on with it.
Im right handed so with my left hand i raise the head and that naturally drops the lower jaw. The little finger on my right hand pushes it down further whilst the pill is poked right down with my index finger/flicked if they bite. Rub throat to encourage swallow or a small squirt of water will wash it down.

Will find a good picture guide for you  ;D
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Millys Mum on January 23, 2009, 19:48:34 PM
http://www.fabcats.org/owners/medicating/pill.html (http://www.fabcats.org/owners/medicating/pill.html)

if shes timid then a towel may hinder things, it would freak my nervous ones out
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 23, 2009, 19:59:27 PM
She's not timid, just incredibly strong & wriggly. It took 2 of us to get her in her box at the vets. She doesn't bite/claw either. Well not really. She's on cystaid 1 tab twice daily, prednisolone soluble 1 tab once daily, there's no instructions to dissolve these in anything so i guess i just pop it down her in thie usual manner & clavaseptin 1 tab twice daily.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Tiggy's Mum on January 23, 2009, 20:23:40 PM
Having given thousands (yes, literally!) of tablets to my last cat my tried and trusted methods would have to be - in order of ease and cleanliness:

1) De-furrum treats - these are very palatable and when snapped in half a tablet can be poked in and is held in place by the 'goo' inside. These are then munched unsuspectingly.

2) Primula/Dairylea - messy but effective, poke a tablet in a blob of Primula / Dairylea.  I found that if it was licked of the finger the success rate with the tablet getting eaten was higher than from a plate, no idea why!

3) Wafer thin ham - Bernad Matthews used to be the best, wrap the tablet in a small parcel of the ham - has to be the wafer thin stuff as normal ham doesn't fold.  The BM wafer thin ham is very moist and sticks to itself when you wrap the parcel.

:luck:
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 23, 2009, 20:29:15 PM
Thanks Helen. Where do you get defurrum treats? I'm going to try dairylea & ham i know she likes both but the treats may be a good standby.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Tiggy's Mum on January 23, 2009, 20:31:12 PM
Pets at Home, Jollyes - most pet shops I guess, I've never seen then in supermarkets.  Here's what they look like:
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 23, 2009, 21:06:17 PM
Thanks for the pic. I have to go to pets at home tomorrow so i'll look out for them. Millys mum i forgot to say thanks so much for the fab cats link. It may come to the towel wrapping if i can't disguise them enough. I love this site everyones so helpful with advice. I really panic'd today when i thought there was something seriously wrong but having someone to talk to helps loads.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 24, 2009, 10:49:26 AM
So far so good. I think i've managed to get all but a little of her capsule into her with a combination of dairylea & defurrum treats. Fingers crossed it continues. She's like a different cat today.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: MrsR on January 24, 2009, 12:11:40 PM
Good news hunnie x
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 24, 2009, 18:58:21 PM
She's still producing dark coloured urine but more than in the previous 24/48 hrs, thats got to be a positive. Much more chatty & receptive to me stroking her today. She clawed her way across the living room floor on her tummy just so she could get me to stroke her before. It would have been quicker to get up & walk but nevermind, my poor battle scared carpet. Lol
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Millys Mum on January 24, 2009, 19:30:29 PM
Cystaid can be opened and mixed into dairylea or into her normal wet food, its tasteless, same goes for the preds, very easily hidden  ;D
I hope your good run continues
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Tiggy's Mum on January 24, 2009, 19:35:18 PM
Sounds promising  :) She's lucky that you took her before it got really bad for her, you're a very good cat Mum to take her when you noticed the change in colour rather than wait til she's not weeing at all  :doh:

Riley does that thing with the carpet too, annoying but cute  :evillaugh:
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 24, 2009, 19:44:31 PM
I'm not expecting her to improve over night the vet said there was a lot of infection. I mustn't have caught it that quickly but having only had her a month i think i did quite well noticing something was wrong. I'm going to try mixing the cystaid in with a felix pouch tonight for her see if she takes it that way. Can i crush the preds? I got the felix pouches this morning to see if both cats liked them, she wolfed her share down & went back for Alfie's once he'd licked the jelly off. Lol
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Millys Mum on January 24, 2009, 20:05:29 PM
With humans if its soluble it needs to be dissolved but cant say iv ever had this with cats! Always just plain preds for swallowing and they can be crushed into food, id ask your vet on that one, if they didnt mention it then it may turn out not to matter but you never know  :-:
Fingers crossed shes eats the cystaid in her tea
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 24, 2009, 20:40:30 PM
The clava & the preds go down well with dairylea so i think i'll stick with that until i speak to the vets nurse on mon about the preds. It's so handy having the vets just across the road. The cystaid i mixed in with half a felix pouch again tonight & she's eaten it all again. That obviously works. Lol
Can you tell me what all these med are surely they can't all be antibiotics?
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Millys Mum on January 25, 2009, 19:40:17 PM
Well done on your sly methods! :ok:
Clavaseptin is an antibiotic, prednisolone is a steroid and cystaid is a glucosamine based supplement that is used with the thinking that the bladder lining has GAGs in it so an aggrevated bladder may be helped by supplementing with more GAGs eg cystaid
http://www.applaws.co.uk/?in_section=health&page=flutd (http://www.applaws.co.uk/?in_section=health&page=flutd) this explains it better than i do  ;D

The interesting thing is that very few cats actually have an infection causing their problem, most are idiopathic yet most vets will prescribe antibiotic treatment without blinking  :-:
The link above is one of the best pages i found when Taz started having problems, very easy to read and understand
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 25, 2009, 21:03:29 PM
Are you sick of answering my questions yet because here comes another one. Lol. She won't take the clava tonight. I've tried dairylea, ham & now it's mushed up in the middle of a chunk of felix pouch, which she's eaten around about & left the offending lump of meat, arrgh contrary madam! What should i do, get her to take another one by popping it down her neck, if i can, & ask the nurse for a replacement pill tomorrow or leave it, try again in the morning? I'm worried that she won't have had the full course if she doesn't take this one tonight.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Tiggy's Mum on January 25, 2009, 21:37:09 PM
Hmmn, this is just what I'd do so not saying it's the right thing... I'd give her one by force and then see about getting an extra one from the vets.  I'm not saying it would harm her missing one tablet but if you can get to the vets to pick up another tablet with no hassle then that sounds like the best bet.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 25, 2009, 22:04:51 PM
Lol it's not a hassle to go to my vets i can see it from the living room window along with a grooming parlour & pet food shop. All animal needs catered for within a 1 min stroll. I've been considering giving her one by force. I think i'll have to bite the bullet & give it a go. I wasn't sure if i could go & ask the vet for extra tablets or not. Then i thought surely i'm not the only one with a pet that refuses to take a tablet the easy way then have it rendered useless/too mushy to give by force. They must get asked for replacement tablets from time to time.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Millys Mum on January 26, 2009, 20:03:03 PM
If you asked for 20 replacements then they may get annoyed but 1 should be fine  ;D
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 26, 2009, 21:23:33 PM
The helpful nurse i spoke to this morning wasn't concerned that one tablet had gone missing. If it had been lots then she'd have been worried tho. They are treating her for bad cystitis but giving the peds just incase there's something else going on. Just covering all bases i think. It seems normal practice at this vets. Storm is grumpy again today but i'm putting that down to having to force the tablets into her after refusal of the dairylea technique. She's done a stonker of a wee in the tray today but it's still dark coloured.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 28, 2009, 21:18:26 PM
We're off to the vets again tomorrow morning. Storm hasn't really been to the loo in the past day. She seems to be holding on any idea's what could be going on, she seems withdrawn but is still eating altho i haven't seen her drinking. Fortunatly i already had the appointment booked.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Millys Mum on January 29, 2009, 12:00:35 PM
Sorry to hear shes still having problems  :hug: have you given her an extra tray? Its reccomended by  behaviourists that all essentials are at a ratio of 1 per cat plus 1, litter trays, food areas, beds, scratch areas and hidey holes, as most bladder probs are caused by behavioural issues this would be a very good place to start. A very fine grain clumping clay litter would be worth trying too, its as close to sand that you can find
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 29, 2009, 12:41:28 PM
She's much better today. The vet was very impressed with her. The dark urine has gone. She's eating & drinking. I've put it down to the litter tray liner being shredded by Alfie & him covering the litter with it so she couldn't find a big enough space to go. The litter is now the only thing in the tray, no liners being used. I'm putting the withdrawn behaviour down to the antibiotics she did exactly the same the last time she had an antibiotic injection for her shoulder injury. The vets given her some more cystaid enough for the next month so we'll see how things go. I've ordered a feliway plug in just in case it is stress related. It'll also come in handy when i take them to my parents when i go on hol.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Leanne on January 29, 2009, 13:33:08 PM
This was Jess's problem he would hold it until the last possible moment.

The behavourist we saw recommended taking out the liner and newspapers from the tray as cats don't usually like them and to try a different softer litter. We were using normal Catsan but this can be tough on the paws (strangely enough Jess would never walk on our stony path so it makes sense)

We now use Catsan Clumping in the trays (one open and one closed in) with nothing use and close the utility cupboard door a bit so they have privacy.

Jess now wees 2/3 times a day.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 29, 2009, 13:59:09 PM
She seems much happier now. They use wood based litter from pets at home, which doesn't make the wee smell & i've just put the lid back on the litter tray after storm had a collar on for a month & couldn't negotiate her way into it with it on. Lol. Fingers crossed things continue to improve.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Millys Mum on January 29, 2009, 14:01:47 PM
It could be the lid making her hang on, not all cats like a hooded tray!
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 29, 2009, 14:05:25 PM
MM i don't think it's that i've only put it on in the last couple of days, she was holding on long before i covered it up. If anything she's using it more now the hood is back on it.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: Millys Mum on January 29, 2009, 14:06:19 PM
MM i don't think it's that i've only put it on in the last couple of days, she was holding on long before i covered it up. If anything she's using it more now the hood is back on it.

Thats good  ;D
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on January 29, 2009, 14:35:19 PM
Yeah fingers crossed she continues to improve. I'm so glad i took her to the vets last thurs. She must have been in great discomfort by the time they sedated her on fri, apparently when they did she flooded the place poor thing. Lol. Thank you everyone for your support & advice. All sorts of things were running through my head when i found out she was poorly, talking about it helped calm me down.
Title: Re: Worrying litter tray deposits?
Post by: kp76 on February 15, 2009, 18:24:52 PM
Well guys, it looks like Storm has stopped using her litter tray again. I haven't heard her use the tray at all it the last 24hrs & her bladder feels full. She's not going anywhere else in the house, she's an indoor cat. Any ideas how i can encourage her to go before i call the vet in the morning?