Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat General => General Cat Chat => Topic started by: beanie260904 on January 19, 2009, 18:18:02 PM
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Does anyone know the percentage of cats that are indoor cats compared to outdoors in the UK, I thought it would be interesting to know...
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Have no idea of statistics but did read that more people are keeping cats indoors than ever before.
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All I could find is this - taken from THE INDOOR OUTDOOR DEBATE
Copyright 1995, 2008 Sarah Hartwell
In Britain an estimated 88%-92% of cats have access to outdoors. The percentage of indoor-only cats corresponds to the percentage of pedigree cats in the pet population. Some are restricted to securely fenced gardens or are supervised by the owner, but most have free access to the outside world, often via their own cat flap. Cat shelters quiz owners about their lifestyle and many require that the cat has access to a garden. Shelters do not, however, refuse to home cats as indoor-only pets if this is right for the individual cat concerned and for the owner. In America the situation is almost the reverse of that in Britain with most shelters refusing to home cats unless the cat is to be kept strictly indoors (except for specialist rescues dealing with feral cats; these seek locations where the risks are acceptable for the non-tame cats concerned).
British indoor/outdoor cats frequently reach their teens and a good number reach their twenties despite their indoor/outdoor nature. Feral cats (living outdoors only) also manage to make it into their teens; the Cat Action Trust reported that one cat living on allotments (communal vegetable gardens) was 19 years old and still breeding (the Cat Action Trust neutered her). The oldest feral on record at the time of writing is 28 years old and living as a maintained feral cat at a cat shelter (free-ranging, but with access to a barn).
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I have 6 cats, of which 4 of them are restricted to a secure garden, the other 2 manage to get out on their own. I think the reason people are keeping their cats more indoors these days is for the cats safety, well thats my reason. I dont find any necessary cause to put their lives in danger, so this is why I like to keep them indoors. I love all my cats and once the garden is sorted the other 2 wont be getting out either.
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We have 25 indoor/outdoor and the rest are house cats by our choice - mainly ferals, old ferals and some who just won't go out period at their choice
All ours are loved and wanted and all are kept fit by hours of playing with us and each other - vet can't usually tell who is who as they are all in their words in great condition, we provide them with their own pets the 3 dogs and they are one big happy family most of the time although they have there moments sort of like siblings really!
I had a feral adopted her at 15 when I trapped her and she was in the family way, we had her speyed and she lived with us for another 4 years before a tumour in her jaw finally got to much to control she was an old slobber chops and adapted to being a house cat - central heating, food always available and the odd human brushing session she was a poppet Miss gracie.
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I have had both indoor and outdoor cats. The first time I had them 'indoors' was because I had lost a few to the roads (including one terrible occasion when I killed my own cat). I enclosed a loosebox and yard designed for a horse that I had in the back yard. The cats would follow me up to the enclosure in the mornings and would then follow me home in the evenings without restraints of any kind. The second time I lived in Brisbane in a small cottage which was on a quiet road but close to a busier one. This was an enclosure accessible directly from the house. The third one was an extraordinarly elaborate series of pens and runs which was also accessible from the house directly.
In addition, I have had cats indoors only in a small one-bed flat and a three bed house and a two bed house. They have all been perfectly happy with their life and have shown no behavioural problems other than Pavarotti who had a bad start in life so his problems are more likely to have stemmed from that rather than his confinement in the house. At present the cats I currently have are allowed unrestricted access to the outdoors during the day and confined at night. I have been confining my cats at night for about 30 years with no problems other than a foster cat who used to get agitated by visiting cats and pee on the doors and windows ...
For a healthy animal who enjoys a reduced risk to external threats, I think it is actually my preferred appproach to animal ownership. I think cats are a lot more adaptable than we give them credit for ...
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All I could find is this - taken from THE INDOOR OUTDOOR DEBATE
Copyright 1995, 2008 Sarah Hartwell
In Britain an estimated 88%-92% of cats have access to outdoors. The percentage of indoor-only cats corresponds to the percentage of pedigree cats in the pet population.
Reading this it sounds like the author of the article is correlating the number of indoor cats with the number of pedigrees, if so, do you think this is valid?
I have two indoor cats who happen to be pedigrees (Singapuras). However I keep them indoors not because they are pedigrees, but because they are much loved companions who would be at risk from the busy main road outside my flat.
One of the reasons I ended up getting pedigrees was because I had a negative response from local rescues at the time I was looking for a cat. I work full time so they weren't happy to give me kittens, and said that rescue adults had previously had outside access and it wasn't fair to force them to be indoor cats. I ended up researching breeds that supposedly would be happy indoors, and chose Singapuras.
However I would have been perfectly happy to have had rescue moggies, as long as they would be happy indoors. The percieved monetary value of the cats was not a factor in my decision, it was their welfare. Now that I've been more informed by forums like this , should I find myself catless in the future I would look for either breed rescues where cats are more likely to have been indoor cats, or hope that by that time more local rescues share the views of Ela and others on indoor homing.
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Until last week we had three cats (one of them lost his cancer fight last week).
Of those, one goes out, and two stayed in.
The one that goes out arrived here as a stray, and it would be just too cruel to keep him in (and he'd destroy the house)!
The other two were from a shelter on the other side of Yorkshire. Ideally we wanted cats who could stay in, because we do live on a relatively busy road (especially school run time), but most shelters said no. Fortunately we found these two, who were complete wusses from the start (we got them aged three). They just never wanted to go out.
George had a big adventure on Saturday (day after his brother died, which probably played a part - they were close) - he sneaked out the door when Nige went out. Apparently he just sat in the middle of the garden looking around in a panic till he heard his name called and darted back into the house...
I'm currently trying to work out if it's possible to catproof the garden, so we can let Mags out in safety, and possibly let George run around the garden without the panic. Of course it's not straightforward, as garden is huge, and overlooks unhelpful neighbours' houses.
So anyway, 2 indoor, two outdoor for us till recently - now one in and one out.
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I have three cats and they are all indoors - the two 12 years olds had outdoor access in their previous home and were meant to be rehomed to a home with a secure garden. However no one else wanted them and in the 3 months they were in foster care they made no moves or gestures to want to get out and that has remained the same at mine.
Nina is only 6 months and indoors only too - hopefully next year we will have a home with a garden and they can have a run but at the moment my three bed duplex will hopefully kleep them happy.
Maybe my part of the country is an exception with all the tenanments but of the ten cats there is amongst my cat loving friend only one is allowed outdoors. The rest are indoors. For various reasons but after a friend at work's cat was pts just before christmas after being shot twice with a pellet gun I cant really blame folk for keeping their cats in - I would be too worried!!
I am currently reading Vicky Hall the complete cat and she is making it very clear in this book more than her other book I read that indoor cats have less qualift of life - I disagree but I realise this is a hot topic of debate!
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i don't see why indoor cats have a poorer quality of life :-:
mine all have access to the garden just because they always have done. if i didnt have so many i'd probably seriously consider keeping them indoors. Lupus, Teddy and Andy are indoor cats by choice, only going out to relieve themselves. the 2 kittens are on enforced confinment until they get their bits off. of those 2 i predict that Mouse will be an indoor cat but Merlin is chomping at the bit (i think he was allowed out at his old home, way too young imho). ive been having to keep the kitchen door shut during the day so he doesnt leg it out of the window. in-time is always a nervous time but all of mine know when that is and are usually milling around in the back garden around that time. i do worry about Sam because he ranges further than the rest of them so if he's last in i get panicky, which wouldnt happen if my cats were indoor cats. i can see advantages to both options but more drawbacks (dangers) to having outdoor cats. of my bridge babies only 2 died of old age, 2 (possibly 3) were killed on the road (which is pretty quiet) and 2 (but more likely 4) were killed by my evil neighbours dog, it was the neighbour that was evil not the dog. the dog was just a poor greyhound who's natural tendency was encouraged by the evil neighbour.
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Me neither!
All my cats used to be outdoors until I moved here 2 years ago. The reason I keep mine to a secure garden is because I have been through RTA deaths of family members cats, and they have ripped the heart out of me, so I could only imagine it would be a million times worse with my own.
I dont believe by keeping my cats to the garden they have a lesser quality of life. To me they will live longer as they are not at threat of being ran over, predators or some nasty :censored: getting hold of them.
So the only thing I believe they would be missing out on would be hunting, but what if they dont hunt at all. Which only one of my cats does and really I dint feel sorry for wanting to keep them safe. It's a requirement of being a responsible pet owner to keep your pets safe.
Something that has to be remembered is our cats are not wild, they have been domesticated to how we want them to be, domesticated to live in our homes.
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I believe that many responsible breeders will only home their kittens to people who agree to keep them safe, which usually means indoors. This may be why people equate pedigree cats with indoor cats.
Until just over a year ago I had no idea about the options available. I let my cats have outside access 24/7. Despite not having lost a cat to an RTA for a decade, I jumped at every knock on the front door, immediately remembering my neighbour's voice, "Your cats are black aren't they? Well, I hate to tell you...." I thought that only people with no gardens, or with expensive pedigree cats, kept them indoors. Also my husband, so reasonable about so many things, did not like the idea of indoor cats. All those litter trays.
Then I started to go on forums like this one.
Firstly I discovered cat litter that actually controlled the smell (World's Best in my case). That helped when my new kittens were too young to be let out.
Then I started to contemplate keeping the younger two, and perhaps one of the older ones, as indoor cats, hoping that OH would come around.
Then Flynn, one of the two younger ones, made it crystal clear that keeping him in would be a constant day-to-day struggle. A door or window open even a crack was a potential escape route.
Then I discovered catproofing gardens! Solution. Happy me, happy OH, happy cats. Cats still are all indoor/outdoor 24/7 - they just don't go further than the 30 x10m back garden.
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We have 2 indoors cats, they have access to the garden but only when we are with them as it isn't cat proofed.
I have always wanted indoor cats, we aren't able to have a cat flap and we have a busy road at the end of our road. When we initially decided to take on cats we were going to buy pedigrees but then my Hubby decided he didn't want to part with the money :evillaugh:, so I started looking at rescues. The first couple of rescues I spoke to had very strong views and refused to rehome to us despite us being willing to wait for an indoor cat to come in.
Then another rescue welcomed us with open arms, Jess was a nervous cat needing a home and had never seen the outside world, when we rehomed Milo as a kitten a year later he had been a stray but quickly adapted to being indoor only.
Last year we introduced them to the garden, Jess just lays around in the sun and at first Milo was very scared of going out, in time and with a harness he has got better and now will happily roam around the garden. What is funny though, at weekends when the sun shines they often sit at the back door wanting to go for walkies, we take them out then they realise its cold so they run out and then turn around and come in :rofl: they really are fair weather garden walkers :rofl:
Our boys have lots of toys and things to do during the day (I think they sleep a lot though) and when we're home we play with them and they get lots of cuddles I don't think they are any worse off for not going out every day. I suspect Jess wouldn't leave the garden anyway, but Milo however has no common sense and would worry me if he went out.
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What are peoples views on house cats? I am very concerned about letting Tiggy outside but some of my friends and family believe it is cruel to keep her inside. She has a harness and lead so she can come outside with us when she is older. I am so worried that if I let her out then something will happen to her and she could be taken as she is such a stunning little girl.
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I think she will let you know!
If she obviously wants to go outside, it might be hard not to let her. I think the harness and lead is a brilliant idea - Ive used them myself in the past. I started off just making a big game of the harness and playing with the lead, then eventually fitting the harness and so on. We had the odd problem if we encountered a tree .... I nearly had my arm pulled off once when Perseus decided to go straight up a cherry tree in the garden. :rofl:
Chloe & Mr T were both outide cats in the past, but as theyve grown older show no inclination to go out unless we take them.
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Thanks! She loves to be insdie with us but like you I agree that it is a good idea to have a lead and harness. I have started to introduce her to it as I have two rabbits that live outside and she enjoys watching them when they are running freely round the garden. ;D
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When I say indoor - mine are completely indoors I have no garden but hope to have within a year. Even then they will not be free roaming.
Tracey I would say what your doing is fine. My friend has two cats indoors however in good weather she lets them out in the garden on harnesses. She actually adapted a harness and made the lead about ten meters by clipping sometogether and used to put them in the garden attatched to a stake in the ground. Obviously she was supervising at all times but it meant they could roam a bit freely.
best bit is now she has removed the stake but the two dim wits dont realise and still only walk as far as they did before ...they are ragdiolls though so sometimes dim goes hand in hand! :rofl: :rofl:
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:rofl: That really made me smile and it is so good to know that other people have house cats too! :thanks:
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First floor flat with no garden so have 3 indoors cats, dogs used to be put out of the house once upon a time too.
hth
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4 indoor cats in a 3 bedroom terrace, (two other rooms they aren't allowed in due to the great TV insident of last year).
I know two of these guys could handle outside living, however they've never shown interest. Our burmese Lirael doesn't like wet ground and can't figure out grass for the life of her - my inlaws took her outside a few times without my knowledge and my husband left the door wide open once - she was sitting on the porch.
When it's time to move house we'll do an enclosure but I wouldn't trust something like that with the neighbours I have.
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We have 2 indoor cats in a 3 bedroom house (A 2 bedroom flat when we first got them)
I know for a fact that neither can go outside because they just don't have the common sense. Nina had a pampered life with an elderly lady before we got her from the resuce so she has absolutely no will to go outside at all. My Grandad left the fornt door open once and she just sat there on the doorstep waiting for us to close the door!
And my poor Kiki was found living outside with kittens when she was only a kitten herself. She is terrified of outside noise and has slight vision problems so unless we secured the back yard she won't be going outside.
If I felt they were desperate to be outside it would break my heart, but I really don't think it doesn't bother them. :)
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Indoor in a 3 bed house here. He's my first cat :Luv: and I can honestly say I love having an indoor cat .. wouldn't have it any other way. He also has no common sense and probably wouldn't last 5 seconds. I thought long and hard before getting him about what to do and haven't regretted it for a single second.
As for poorer quality life .. I think my spoilt boy would have something to say about that.
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It's encouragnig to read this from everyone else!!
I am not enjoying the new Vicky hall book as I do think there is a few things she is talking about that perhaps she does not have as much knowledge as she does about her excellent cat behavour. She drives home the point of cats geting out very strongly which I find conflicts with a lot of other stuff I have read and believe.
She also comments that the magical litters that claim to last up to three months are nonsense and your cat will be put off by the smell! Whilst I have never left litter for three months there are whole threads on here about litters such as OKo and classy cat that can be left for weeks on end....so ya boo sucks to that theory too!! :P And I'm only three chapters in!!
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I think indoor is fine so long as they have an enriched and stimulating environment and lots of play chances to hunt etc.
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Another totally indoors here. Dot's happy with life and has never shown any inclination to go out. She has the common sense of a sponge and runs straight up to anyone she meets. Thus, if I let her out it would just be a question of whether she got run over or nicked. Not going to happen.
C.
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Max is totally indoors too, mainly due to him having FIV, but to be honest, seeing how well he adapted to indoor life after being picked up as a stray, I would almost certainly keep any future cats as indoor animals too until such time I own my own house and can cat-proof a garden.
I think as long as they are mentally stimulated, and have plenty of toys etc to interact with, then indoor cats are absolutely fine ;D
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Well, the age old debate again LOL! Anyway, my two penneth - all of my cats go outside and all the cats I've ever owned have had freedom to go outside, and I wouldnt have it any other way. I don't believe in keeping cats solely indoors. Cats are domesticated yes, to live amongst us, not to be kept shut up inside a house, being domesticated doesnt stop their natural instincts which just can't be met by a totally indoor environment. However, when I lost cats on the road years ago I researched the idea of cat enclosures and believed I had a good compromise - it was large enough to enable natural behaviours, incorporated trees/shrubs etc, climbing posts, shelves for sunbathing etc etc. Even so, I never felt completely comfortable with the idea of restricting them.
Finally, moving her 8 years ago, I knew I had found a safe environment for them, and whilst, they still arent free to roam at night (I have a cat proofed area - so they can still go outside at night, but not roam) - they have access to the garden all the rest of the time.
I have pedigree Persians (some resuces, some I've had as kittens) and there is no reason to keep them indoors just because they are pedigrees - they are still cats, still the same instincts and they would be totally miserable as indoor cats. One of the breeders I've had some of my persians from provides a large outdoor enclosure for her cats and the other breeder's cats have full access to the land around their farmhouse, its wonderful to see this mass of fluffy persians accompanying the owners on trips out to feed the geese etc!
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We have both and currently all are inside and noone seems the slightest bit put out as its been really wet all day and they are just doing there own thing
I have no issues with the split we have of both indor/outdoor and indoor only they are all happy and healthy - our raggie has access to the outside world due to her past life - I spent 9 months doing all the right things with her re training litter tray wise and she still wouldn't use it - vet said open door and let her go out now I have a happy ragdoll - she doesn't do winter much but loves snow and is always dried if she is wet and god help anyone including us who trys to pick her pedigree behind up outside she will shred as well as any feral!
We chose our current home with only one neighbour, woods on 2 sides a stream on the other a paddock full of feild mice a stream with frogs and a 2 acre garden - we also sold our souls to do this - our first consideration on moving was the cats, then the dogs then the house and luckily I found them all in one ideal location then had to sell our souls and we both work hard to keep theis cat idyll over their furry paws!
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My 6 cats are all allowed to come and go as they please during the day, and they choose to spend a lot of their time outside. I lock the cat flap before dark so that as they come in they have to stay in and I keep them all indoors over night. My cats all love to hunt and I do live in a semi-rural area. For my own cats I know they would hate to be restricted to an indoor only life. On occasions I have had to restrict them to indoors for health issues or introductions and I can see how badly they want to get out. They are more than happy to be in at night as they get so much exercise and stimulation outside during the day. In the evenings they have short play sessions and then just curl up and sleep.
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I wonder if there is an element to this that hasn't been considered yet. Some of those who have replied and expressed the view that all cats should be able to access the great outdoors obviously live in (semi)rural areas, where there are woods, fields, streams and... er... geese. Many of us will never be able to live in such areas and have no choice but to live near roads and other humans + their pets. If this is the case and owners in these circumstances feel that their cats would be in danger outside, should people in these situations not have cats? If so, there is a danger that this view could fairly rapidly progress to the view that only people in a higher monetary bracket should own cats - I would love to live in a rural area but I can't afford to and I know many people in the same situation. Aside from the obvious increased strain on rescues, it would be a cause of great sadness to many, should they be persuaded that their home is not fit for feline habitation.
I don't mean the above to be as provocative as it probably sounds but strangely, I couldn't seem to scroll on through this thread yesterday and it upset me quite a bit. I was thinking about it in bed last night, after Dot had come to join me and was stretched out with her paws on my tummy. I thought that she always seems happy but what if she really does feel that something is missing from her life? If there was, what could I do? Break the contract with my breeder and boot Dot out to take her chances? Moving is out of the question at the moment and anyway, as I said, I can't afford to live in the countryside, nor will I ever be able to, I suspect. I would be devastated if Dot left me and equally devastated if I could never have another cat.
So, what do those who feel that an outside life is essential think I should do? And what are their views about those of us who are city/town flat dwellers? The issue of wealth, lifestyle and cat ownership doesn't really seem to have been broached - is this a deliberate attempt to skim over something that might prove to be provocative, or has it just never come up?
C.
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although my cats have access to the big outdoors i would never presume to say that an indoor cat has a lesser quality of life and to be quite frank those that do say that are quite wrong IMHO. i wish that when i'd first had cats i'd have known that it was ok to confine them, i definitely would've done. of the cats i have now only 3, maybe 4 of them would seriously object to being kept in and only those ones would try to escape. i don't live in the countryside but on a large housing estate but i am fortunate to have a 130ft garden. the houses behind me have the same size gardens so theres quite a large area before they hit a big road (bus route). the ones that have been victim to the road have all died out the front where the road is narrow and pretty quiet. most of my cats stick to the back of the house and the adjoining gardens. only one (Sam) goes out the front and he is a worry as he crosses the road to chase the birds on the green opposite.
i'm sure that with the exception of the 3 (or 4) that ive mentioned, my cats would be just as happy staying in.
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We have 20ish each of indoor/outdoor and indoor only and they are all happy and healthy and the vets can't tell who is from which section of our family so we must be doing something right all are played with and have the best of food and loads of toys and the younger ones have each other to play with currently I have 7 doing the stair/bedroom/upstairs study circut and its funny to see they range from 8 years to 6 months and all are happy and have no traction of the wooden fllors!
I have cats who have been outside all their lives and came to us when someone poisoned the rest of their colny - they have been house cats for 6 months and have adapted beautifully they love food, warmth, central heating and the odd head rub from us - these are all ferals I hasten to add and sitting here typing this with Miss Cissy at 14 on her new radiator bed, Smudger in his nice fleecy Royal Canin bed and ragamuffin leading the juniors in a circut do they seem to be missing anything no they know that their nextr meal will appear it will be good food and the heating will be on later this afternoon
Cats can and will adapt and ours are one big family who have adapted to new dogs, moving house and in some of the newer ferals HUMANS!
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Catbird I'm one of those in the semi rural area and as I said earlier am certain that my own cats are happiest when they are allowed out (you should see them standing in a not so orderly queue in the morning in front of the cat flap yamming to be let out). However, I'm only speaking from my own personal experience and I would never presume to say that anyone's indoor cats aren't just as happy. If anything I'd say its just a different lifestyle and you just have different things to consider. I think as long as any cat is cared for, well stimulated and well fed then that's as much as any of us can do to return all the joy they bring to us. I'm sure it depends on the individual cat as well and their instincts. I suspect my Heidi would be the only one of my cats content to be indoor only however she is a very hyper cat and would probably have the house wrecked!
I like the idea of cat proofed gardens in more built up areas and did do that myself when I lived in a busier area in England.
I can also understand how territory could become an issue for indoor cats if there was a multi-cat household but have no personal long term experience of that so am only voicing a thought and not saying that must be the case.
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I can also understand how territory could become an issue for indoor cats if there was a multi-cat household
that would be the main problem if i kept mine in. the ones that are out all day would, i'm sure, get cranky with the ones that are content to stay in. i just went down to make a coffee and all but 2 are in, curled up in various spots in the kitchen :rofl:
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Some of those who have replied and expressed the view that all cats should be able to access the great outdoors obviously live in (semi)rural areas, where there are woods, fields, streams and... er... geese.
Just to say, although my cats all go outside, I don't live in a rural area, I live on a housing estate, albeit in a small cul-d-sac away from any busy roads and I am lucky enough to have a large garden unusually for modern estate house. Can assure you I'm not in the higher monetary bracket either, far, from it LOL! But I did choose this house 8 yrs ago with the cats in mind, the size of the garden, the position etc.
Oh, and edited to add - for all they love to go outside, mine have hardly set food outside the door for quite a few weeks now LOL! :evillaugh:
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I agree with Liz and I'd never thought about it before, our vets have always assumed that Jess and Milo go out and when we explained they are mostly indoors they were like oh, so we too must being doing something right ;)
I can honestly say I don't think they are missing out on anything, they don't cry to go out or line up to. They only express an interest in going in the garden at weekends but (as I said before) when we take them out at this time of the year they soon hurry back in.
I remember last summer we were in the garden with them from midday till 9pm just playing and lazing around and we all slept though the night it obviously wore the boys out.
I think at the end of the day every cat is different and we all know our own cats, I knew Jess is far to nervy to want to go out alone and Milo has adapted well to being indoors and gets quite scared of strange outdoor noises.
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my boys are completely indoor kitties due to several factors though we are building an enclosed garden
however I do not think they are missing out on much, both are active and have a blast in the house, have ample opportunity to dash out whenwe let the dogs out if they really wanted to... so I think completely indoor is fine if you have enough room and spend time with them
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First floor flat with no garden so have 3 indoors cats, dogs used to be put out of the house once upon a time too.
hth
How do you manage in a flat? I am thinking of renting a flat or apartment as I am considering spliting with my partner and I will be taking Tiggy and my two rabbits with me.
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I don't believe in keeping cats solely indoors. Cats are domesticated yes, to live amongst us, not to be kept shut up inside a house, being domesticated doesnt stop their natural instincts which just can't be met by a totally indoor environment.
An indoor environment can meet everything for some cats, look at the amount of indoor only on Purrs who are shown off in pics, you can see they are happy and content. Lu and Riley come to mind, surely no one can say those cats were missing out for their first year as indoor only cats??
Catbird, dont be upset, if Dot was unhappy she would be the first one to let you know with some rather obvious behaviours, so just be pleased that you have a v.happy and safe cat in your life. ;D
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I wonder if there is an element to this that hasn't been considered yet. Some of those who have replied and expressed the view that all cats should be able to access the great outdoors obviously live in (semi)rural areas, where there are woods, fields, streams and... er... geese. Many of us will never be able to live in such areas and have no choice but to live near roads and other humans + their pets. If this is the case and owners in these circumstances feel that their cats would be in danger outside, should people in these situations not have cats? If so, there is a danger that this view could fairly rapidly progress to the view that only people in a higher monetary bracket should own cats - I would love to live in a rural area but I can't afford to and I know many people in the same situation. Aside from the obvious increased strain on rescues, it would be a cause of great sadness to many, should they be persuaded that their home is not fit for feline habitation.
I don't mean the above to be as provocative as it probably sounds but strangely, I couldn't seem to scroll on through this thread yesterday and it upset me quite a bit. I was thinking about it in bed last night, after Dot had come to join me and was stretched out with her paws on my tummy. I thought that she always seems happy but what if she really does feel that something is missing from her life? If there was, what could I do? Break the contract with my breeder and boot Dot out to take her chances? Moving is out of the question at the moment and anyway, as I said, I can't afford to live in the countryside, nor will I ever be able to, I suspect. I would be devastated if Dot left me and equally devastated if I could never have another cat.
So, what do those who feel that an outside life is essential think I should do? And what are their views about those of us who are city/town flat dwellers? The issue of wealth, lifestyle and cat ownership doesn't really seem to have been broached - is this a deliberate attempt to skim over something that might prove to be provocative, or has it just never come up?
C.
I can completely understand where you are coming from and I didn't want to cause any problems by asking the question about having a house cat. I feel very strongly about my Tiggy staying indoors where she is safe as like you I don't live in an area surounded by fields and no cars!
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An indoor environment can meet everything for some cats, look at the amount of indoor only on Purrs who are shown off in pics, you can see they are happy and content. Lu and Riley come to mind, surely no one can say those cats were missing out for their first year as indoor only cats??
There are also many cats kept indoors that DO have behaviour problems and suffer with stress related conditions such as urinary tract problems. Sorry, but I believe all cats should have the choice. ;D
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In an ideal world all cats would have the choice but there are so many unwanted cats that to rule out indoor homes that SOME of those cats would be perfectly happy living in would be plain madness? What would happen then, put them all to sleep just because they cant have the choice to go out in the garden or not :shocked:
In my dream world, there would be no speeding cars, no yobs and sickos out doing evil things and people wouldnt breed endless supplies of kittens so all cats would be out safely sunbathing but until that day many cats are going to be better off indoors :shy:
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That's freaky MM, that's just what I was about to post....
In an ideal world then yes, of course, all animals would be able to roam free but it's not an ideal world which is why many cats are kept indoors. I don't think it's been proven that indoor cats are more at risk of behavioural issues but it is a fact that cats who are allowed outside are more at risk of being run over or harmed by humans.
As MM said the boys were completely indoors for the first year of their lives with me, they'd never been out so they didn't know what they were 'missing'. They are happy, healthy, well rounded cats with no behavioural problems. I was lucky that I have been able to catproof my garden so now they do go out but I can say without a shadow of a doubt that they are not happier for it, they do enjoy going out but in the same breath they enjoy having a new cardboard box to play in. The garden is not a huge pull for them and in fact they've not been out at all today, there's been no waiting by the back door - their choice.
I think those of us who have indoor cats appreciate that as they lack the stimulus of the outdoors then we have to make an extra effort to keep them stimulated and happy hence climbing towers, treat balls, interactive toys and probably more one-on-one attention than an outdoor cat would ever get. With the boys this has turned them into the most affectionate, loving boys I could ever have hoped for - I was their world while they were growing up which I think has moulded them into the lovely cats they are now.
The only exception to my fully supporting indoor cats would be when the cat is used to going outside, in that scenario then I think it would be very difficult to adjust, and yes it may make the cat unhappy. Having said that they may adjust to it as my Tiggy did who was indoor/outdoor up to the age of 15 and then became indoor only with no problem.
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Sorry, but I believe all cats should have the choice. ;D
So, given what I have said before, I have to ask - do you believe that all cats, in all circumstances should have the choice? Should Dot have the choice even if it costs her her life? Should cats who live in very built up areas have the choice... OR (and this is what I was trying to find out initially) should people who cannot offer a "proper" outdoor environment not have cats? Please be clear here Gillian that I am most definitely NOT trying to start an argument with you and that these questions are not solely directed at you - I really want to know what the opinions of the "outdoor division" lead to and how far this has been thought through. It is one thing to state a firm belief in outdoor access for all BUT taken to it's logical conclusion, this surely results in a belief that some of us should not own cats?
C.
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We gave Perseus the choice.
He was gorgeous - came to us as a young straying cat - barely out of kitten-hood into our street. My OH found him in the hands of a small child who was swinging him about by his collar. He rescued him and brought him into our flat. To cut a long story short, He became ours. he was unchipped, unneutred and very, very hungry and thirsty. We had him neutered and chipped. We would have loved to keep him in, but he clearly wanted out. We live on the top (3rd floor) of a block of flats, so it wasn't very easy. But, he'd been an out cat before e came to us ...
We had him for just over a year.
Then, he went missing.
On a Friday evening.
On Friday, 7th August 2004 Perseus was run over on his way home to us. He was found dying on th Saturday morning. Nothing could be done for him
Now I'm going to have stop typing cos I'm going to go and cry :'( :'( :'(
OK - nose blown - eyes wiped - So - we make decisions based on all sorts of things. Thank God, Chloe nd Mr T don't want to go out.
Look at my sketch
Would you want your cats to go out here?
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So, what do those who feel that an outside life is essential think I should do? And what are their views about those of us who are city/town flat dwellers? The issue of wealth, lifestyle and cat ownership doesn't really seem to have been broached
I'm of the view that cats should be allowed outdoor access and we live in Fulham. Blip is an indoor / outdoor cat, as are almost all my neighbours' cats (including two Persians in the next street). In our case, Blip isn't allowed 'out the front' only into the back garden(s), but if she put her mind to it she could find her way to the road: many cats round here do pad about in front gardens and on the pavements.
PS I don't understand the implied correlation between wealth and rural living, Catbird: there are poor people and better-off people in town and country alike :shy:.
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PS I don't understand the implied correlation between wealth and rural living, Catbird: there are poor people and better-off people in town and country alike :shy:.
Yes, I know what you mean and I didn't really get what I meant across well. Let's see if I can manage this a bit better. I live in Rochester, which is close to the countryside but not in it. My perfect home for having a cat would be in a rural area. I can't move to a rural area because I either can't afford to buy a home there, or I can afford a flat over a shop, which would rather defeat the objective and in any case I would not be able to afford the fares into work. If I took local employment, the drop in salary would be so severe that I couldn't pay the mortgage. I know that there are many people who are in the same position as me - we live in towns and cities less through choice than necessity. I certainly didn't mean to state simply that all the "posh" types live in the country and all the "poor" types live in towns, what I did mean to state was that moving to a better environment from the point of view of owning cats is not simple... or even achievable for many of us and I think that there is something of dichotomy lurking around here. For many people there is no real indoor/outdoor choice and I started to sense a feeling of "if you live in a flat on a main road, don't own a cat", which seems to me to be unfair on people who provide a loving indoor only home and possibly ill-thought out, as followed to its eventual conclusion this must mean that there is a feeling that some perfectly OK people shoud be forever denied cat ownership unless they can breach the catch-22 situation described above and live the rural idyll.
Have I explained this any better? I am having trouble putting this into words, hopefully this is an improvement.
C.
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We gave Perseus the choice.
On Friday, 7th August 2004 Perseus was run over on his way home to us. He was found dying on th Saturday morning. Nothing could be done for him
Thanks Wibble and I am very sorry that Perseus had such a short time with you.
Yes, the outdoors may offer some natural activites for a cat but how natural is it for a cat's life to be cut short in the way described?
C.
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When i got Milo he came from a flat where he was an indoor cat. When he settled with me i let him go outside for a while when i was around. It then turned to him going out when the weather was fair. Some nights he would not come back until early morning and i would have to leave the window open for him. He then started to stay more at home again. He turned into a great hunter and brought back all sorts of mice! I felt for the woodmice population! When we got Pagan he began to never go out!! Ever. The weather began to draw in and he hasnt been outside since October.
Pagan hasnt been out, well she went out once or twice with me. Its only as she hasnt been spayed yet. Her and Milo get on very well and i think having each other is enough for them. They play around a lot. When they move with me to ther flat they will be indoor all the time, but the flat is twice the size of the house they are in now!! So they will have plenty of space and compay. At the moment they dont have as much company. But its only for another couple of weeks.
I feel cats can adapt to anything. Ideally i would let them both out. Butn it turns out that my living situation is changing and they will need to be kept indoors. Isnt that better than the trauma of being rehomed?
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I started to sense a feeling of "if you live in a flat on a main road, don't own a cat", which seems to me to be unfair on people who provide a loving indoor only home and possibly ill-thought out, as followed to its eventual conclusion this must mean that there is a feeling that some perfectly OK people shoud be forever denied cat ownership unless they can breach the catch-22 situation described above and live the rural idyll.
Just to lob in a thought, I'd be more concerned about allowing Blip free outdoor access if I lived in the country anywhere near an A road. Round here, we have speed humps, little funny-shaped roads and 20 mph speed restrictions; no hammering along at 60 mph in this neighbourhood.
I would hate to ever restrict Blip's access now and would use cat-proofing if ever this arose. If I were a prospective cat owner who did live in a dangerous place, I would look to share my home with a disabled cat who had to be kept indoors.
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By the way living in a rural location as we did prior to coming to an even more rural location I lost 2 of my boys Toerag and Haggis in the same spot 2 years apart - we also have idiot racers in the rural idyll where we lived previously for 10 years, here we have sold our souls and bought the most wonderful place, no street lights for 3 miles, a very bumpy single dirt track road for us and one other house - delivery vans are met by 6 dogs so they have to slow down also if they want suspension left on their vehicles. We live a mile and half off a C road - its a nice straight bit and folks speed on it - I see the lights when walking the dogs at night!
Also the idea that us country folks are rich is a myth - we have no road gritting, no uplift of our rubbish at all and maintain the track ourselves which is not a cheap task, we pay very high council tax for no services - the nearest bus stop is 1.5 miles away and that bus comes 3 times a day so not great for any planning so we have to drive. TYhe takeaways don't deliver and we have to travel to our "corner shop" which is 4 miles away!
Oh and we also have high unemployment to - I was made redundant last September and haven't found a job yet as some folks think I live to fawaway from their places of employment
Also we have a lot of animals dumped in this nice area as we have woods and its far away from the civilisation - I trap any of these poor waifs and strays rehome where I can, release what I can and feed and vet check them and the ones who need major surgery end up coming in
Mine also live in a Multicat household 43 at the last count with 3 dogs aged 15, 20 months and 4 months
We never have holidays and live frugally to provide for our furkids - they have Royal canin I am having beans on toast!
So whilst the rural idyll is a lovely dream to have and we fulfilled ours it isn't everyones cup of tea!
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Just to lob in a thought, I'd be more concerned about allowing Blip free outdoor access if I lived in the country
having read about Billy Buttons and seen the pictures of the area he went missing in i'm inclined to agree. the thought of one of my cats being lost in one of those huge field with knowledge that sooner or later a combine harvester is going to come along made me rethink letting the cats out if i ever do get the chance to move to the countryside.
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rural idyll... rural idyll
I didn't mean that phrase to sound as glib as it obviously did.
And as I said in my previous email, I realise that there are both rich and poor in both the countryside and the town. Here it is again, for clarity:
I certainly didn't mean to state simply that all the "posh" types live in the country and all the "poor" types live in towns, what I did mean to state was that moving to a better environment from the point of view of owning cats is not simple... or even achievable for many of us
You have been able to do that, I will not be able to and that not a "wah, wah, wah, poor little me", it's a simple statement of fact.
This point has got a bit laboured but what I wanted to say was that indoor/outdoor vs indoor only does not have much of an element of choice for most of us. I didn't think that point had been really considered within the thread and I wanted to suggest a possible end stage for the thought that all cats should be permitted an outdoor life. It's not intended to be a class war or haves and have-nots.
C.
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It's not intended to be a class war or haves and have-nots.
There's only one class on Purrs, and that's cat lovers :Luv: And that makes us all 'haves' in my book ;D
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It's not intended to be a class war or haves and have-nots.
There's only one class on Purrs, and that's cat lovers :Luv: And that makes us all 'haves' in my book ;D
Yeah, that's right. At the end of the day, if it's upsidedown on the bed purring its head off, it's probably OK.
and so's its cat.
C.
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Actually I'd agree about being more concerned about 'rural' areas - because I lived in a semi-rural area before I moved here, I lost 5 cats on the quiet country road that ran across the top of our cul-de-sac in the 9 years I lived there. Its why I decided to build the cat run - there was never the thought that I wanted to keep them indoors, in fact my thoughts were that I could not possibly have cats anymore to have my heart broken again and again. The cat run was the compromise.
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My boys are indoor only. In an ideal world, they would be able to choose whether or not they wanted to go outside. But the world - and the world outside my door in paticular - is far from ideal. Cats and cars don't mix well and I consider the risks in my own little bit of the planet to be too great. So it's an indoor life for them. The only alternative would be to not have cats. But that would be a shame. Not just for me, but for all those cats that need homes 'cos I think I can provide a good one.
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Unfortunately, my 2 cats are indoors full-time too.
My intention when I first got them was to let them out - I always thought it was cruel to keep them indoors but then once I got them I began to hear all the horror stories regarding cats in the neighbourhood about what people had done to them/plus there is a busy road so I decided I couldn't risk making that decision to let them out.
They appear to me to be very happy indoors and don't cry to get out. However, if I ever move to a house with a garden I would love to build a cat run for them.
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I am not enjoying the new Vicky hall book as I do think there is a few things she is talking about that perhaps she does not have as much knowledge as she does about her excellent cat behavour. She drives home the point of cats geting out very strongly which I find conflicts with a lot of other stuff I have read and believe.
I haven't read any of Vicky Hall's books but any cat book I have read/and own have all fully encouraged the reader to keep their cats indoors.
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Mine are allowed outside, but they rarely leave my bedroom, much less figure out where the door is!! Molly spent most of last summer chattering at the birds from inside the house, although Zi took advantage a bit. The fosters seem to go out more than my 2, I have an ex-stray who starts climbing the walls at 9pm to go out, so his compromise is when I get home from work and when I am around at weekends, he clearly will never be an indoor only cat, and it does concern me as his hearing isn't great. But watching a cat try and get out of a window that is on a trickle vent cos he craves the fresh air can't be good for his mental health.
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I am not enjoying the new Vicky hall book as I do think there is a few things she is talking about that perhaps she does not have as much knowledge as she does about her excellent cat behavour. She drives home the point of cats geting out very strongly which I find conflicts with a lot of other stuff I have read and believe.
I haven't read any of Vicky Hall's books but any cat book I have read/and own have all fully encouraged the reader to keep their cats indoors.
I have read cat detective and now hald way through this and maybe I am just picking up on some points too strongly but it is clear she prefers outdoors (which ofcourse is fine) but I didnt get the same strong impresseion from cat dectective. It is still a good book and I got it for only £2 so cant grumble!! Its good just as a reference
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I am not enjoying the new Vicky hall book as I do think there is a few things she is talking about that perhaps she does not have as much knowledge as she does about her excellent cat behavour. She drives home the point of cats geting out very strongly which I find conflicts with a lot of other stuff I have read and believe.
I haven't read any of Vicky Hall's books but any cat book I have read/and own have all fully encouraged the reader to keep their cats indoors.
I have read cat detective and now hald way through this and maybe I am just picking up on some points too strongly but it is clear she prefers outdoors (which ofcourse is fine) but I didnt get the same strong impresseion from cat dectective. It is still a good book and I got it for only £2 so cant grumble!! Its good just as a reference
She does change her mind somewhat, I think. I have one of her books somewhere and when she wrote it she had 4 or 5 cats. One of the vet nurses told me, after attending a talk by her, that Ms Halls now apparently thinks that cats should live a one-cat-per-household life, as only lions live in a group in the wild. Personally the logic behind that one sounds a bit tenuous but I haven't read any of her recent books and possibly the views expressed therein are different. If this is her view now, it proves that she can change her mind about fundamental aspects of cat care so, you never know, she might come around to indoor living for cats! ;)
C.
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I think alot depends on the cat, I dont think it is fair to keep a cat indoors if it makes them miserable.
All 11 of mine are allowed outside, daytime only !!
I have lost 3 cats to the road but still feel it would be wrong to keep my lot shut up indoors, they all love going outside.
But believe me i worry everytime they are outside, I cant rest until they are all back inside.
I remember speaking to my vet about this some years ago just after i had lost one of mine
His reply was -
" Do you want a cat that lives till 20yrs old but has 20 miserable years indoors or a cat that maybe only lives to 2yrs old but has enjoyed every second of its life ?"
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After having lost my number 1 Baby to the road, I woved to keep the next cat indoors until the garden was cat proofed. Luckily, our new boy is not allowed to go outside (victim of RTA with smashed pelvis, no tail and hardly any teeth - only 12 months old and not very street wise). I am still in 2 minds about the indoor/outdoor issue, but he hasn't displayed any signs of wanting to go out - and when we have had the front door open he will just sniff around and then come back in again.
However, one day we WILL let him out, but only if he is safely tucked away from the busy road.
I personally believe a cat can NEVER be streetwise, they do not know what a car or road is - they might find the road scary, but it's not in their nature or instincts to know about it. And if you own a cat, you automatically responsible for his/hers safety, so think twice before you let them out if you live near a busy road.
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I personally believe a cat can NEVER be streetwise, they do not know what a car or road is - they might find the road scary, but it's not in their nature or instincts to know about it. And if you own a cat, you automatically responsible for his/hers safety, so think twice before you let them out if you live near a busy road.
Yes, that's why mine are indoors because of the busy road - and horror stories of horrible people. I don't like keeping them in though, it goes against everything I have ever said but I just couldn't live with myself if something happened. And so, as long as I am living here and they appear to be happy enough indoors then thats the way its going to have to stay. However, if I am ever lucky enough to move somewhere quieter (or with a garden) I would love to let them out, even at the very least it is in a run. I try to give to give them lots of varied toys and things to do to keep them active and interested.
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We moved from a semi-rural area, Splitz, Pod & Rolo went outside (only whem i was in & not when iy was dark)
They never ventured far & when i shouted of them & shook their treats they would come pelting back.
My 2 neighbours who shared the courtyard also had cats so there was 7 in total.
6 months ago we gave it up and come to live on an estate, as my mother is ill so i needed to be near her & my sis (all a few mins walk away now)
We live in a cul-de-sac and the back garden in huge.
Since moving here i am terified to let my babies out, but they seem to have adapted to indoors well (with the help from the threads on Purrs)
The sound of barking dogs across the back gardens & kids yelling scares me to let them out.
Also Rolo (little ginja Ninja) seems to have no fear and will investigate anything. He does run wild when he see's a cat outside, but i try my hardest to distract him.
They have the full run of the house (they dont do rules LOL) have loads of toys etc and we always fuss & play with them.
We also have Flora now, so 4 indoor furbabes now :Luv2:
TBH tho, i am looking for another semi-rural house as i would like to be able to let them out again
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I personally believe a cat can NEVER be streetwise, they do not know what a car or road is - they might find the road scary, but it's not in their nature or instincts to know about it. And if you own a cat, you automatically responsible for his/hers safety, so think twice before you let them out if you live near a busy road.
I disagree with this. I live on the very edge of a small town. A country lane runs up the side of my house and across from us there is a wooded copse and beyond that lane is green belt. My cats go across that lane into the copse to hunt. I've watched them many times. Not all the time but in the majority of instances when they get to the road edge they stop. They look around and are clearly listening before they cross the road. I've seen my cats run back to a garden and away from the road the second they hear a car approaching. Many people have stated how smart and adaptable indoor cats are to their indoor lifestyle so surely the same must be true of cats who are allowed outside.
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Yes, that's why mine are indoors because of the busy road - and horror stories of horrible people.
Which reminds me of a phone call received on Thursday about a missing ginger/white cat. I gave the caller details of what to do if you lose a cat, and advised her that of she got the little one back to keep it in as we here of so many cats go missing from her area. To be honest there is no way we would ever home a cat to go out in that area and if we could get away with it no cat at all. (Although there must be some nice families somewhere). The caller advised me that she could not keep the cat in as it liked to go to a place called xxxxxxxxxx Hall, (which is on a very busy road and the cat would need to cross it to get there. and each day she would go in the care at night to get it. I advised her that one day the little one will not be there and she would not get it back. She poo pooed the idea. Anyway yesterday I received a call from a very nice lady who wanted to adopt a cat and then mentioned that the day before she had seen a dead ginger/white cat outside xxxxxxxxxx Hall and had called the cleansing dept to collect it. I know I have put 2 and 2 together but I think I know whose cat that will be.
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I personally believe a cat can NEVER be streetwise, they do not know what a car or road is - they might find the road scary, but it's not in their nature or instincts to know about it. And if you own a cat, you automatically responsible for his/hers safety, so think twice before you let them out if you live near a busy road.
I disagree with this. I live on the very edge of a small town. A country lane runs up the side of my house and across from us there is a wooded copse and beyond that lane is green belt. My cats go across that lane into the copse to hunt. I've watched them many times. Not all the time but in the majority of instances when they get to the road edge they stop. They look around and are clearly listening before they cross the road. I've seen my cats run back to a garden and away from the road the second they hear a car approaching. Many people have stated how smart and adaptable indoor cats are to their indoor lifestyle so surely the same must be true of cats who are allowed outside.
I think cats can be streetwise to a degree but it only takes a bird/rabbit or something to scare them and their instincts kick in. I think if a bird landed across the road, most cats would just go into predator mode.
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I think cats can be streetwise to a degree but it only takes a bird/rabbit or something to scare them and their instincts kick in. I think if a bird landed across the road, most cats would just go into predator mode.
i agree, as i've said, only one of my cats ventures out the front where the road is and if he sees a nice fat pigeon then he's off. i have no idea whether he is street smart but i do know that he is cat smart, if he can chase it he will, regardless of whether there is a road between him and his prey. i worry from the minute he goes out in the morning to the minute he comes in in the evening. if he's not back by the time dinner is dished up then i'm on the verge of panic and stalking the street checking the roadside. if i could keep him in i definitely would.
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My local supermarket and vets always have posters of missing cats up - apparently there was a problem in the district of people stealing cats to use as bait in dog fighting (don't know if this is true or not, it was in the local newspaper). I have heard of other horrible stories too that have happened in my actual town. My neighbour keeps are 2 out and they have been there as long as I have (probably longer) and that has been 7 years.
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An indoor environment can meet everything for some cats, look at the amount of indoor only on Purrs who are shown off in pics, you can see they are happy and content. Lu and Riley come to mind, surely no one can say those cats were missing out for their first year as indoor only cats??
There are also many cats kept indoors that DO have behaviour problems and suffer with stress related conditions such as urinary tract problems. Sorry, but I believe all cats should have the choice. ;D
Thats true but I don't believe its all totally down to whether they go out or not
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Lots to read in this thread.
Streetwise cats
I think it depends on the cat. Even if you think they are, they can behave in an uncharactertistic way if scared or distracted, as other have suggested. Mitzi, my Siamese/Bengal cross would not have a chance - she has an overpowering sense of curiosity that completely outweighs any tendency to run away.
Indoor/outdoor
All my cats really like the garden, particularly in summer. My two older cats, who have experience of both, prefer the catproofed garden to the non-catproofed garden. They are female and did not like sharing their territory with other cats. When I kept Flynn in (from when I got him as a kitten to when the garden was catproofed 5 months later) he wanted out. He would certainly go further than the garden boundaries if he could. I think two of them, Blacken and Mitzi, could be indoor cats.
Cat density
My four are much happier now that they have more area to share (catproofing the garden doubled their combined territory).
'Natural' cat behaviour
We don't want our cats to behave 'naturally'. Sudies of feral cat colonies suggest that they are almost completely solitary with two exceptions: kittenhood and occasionally when a daughter from a previous litter combines forces with her mother to care for a new litter. We need to bend their psychology somewhat if they are to be pets. Either they retain aspects of kitten psychology and see us as their mother, or their littermates, or they take the mother's role and see us as their kittens. (Some of my female cats do a delightful mix of both.)