Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat Health & Behaviour => Health & Behaviour General => Topic started by: Michelle (furbabystar) on January 02, 2009, 18:43:37 PM
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Anyone's cat been on this ?
Freddy has cystitis AGAIN ...have been giving him Metacam for the last 4 days but there was no improvement so we went to the vets tonight.
He has been given a long lasting antibiotic injection and vet said to try him on 1/4 tablet a day of Diazepam.
I have given him the 1st one, just waiting to see what it does to him :(
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Diazepam makes me go to sleep so may reduce his activity levels a bit .
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Must admit never heard of giving a cat this drug, only ever for humans. It's meant to purely calm (milder sedative than say, Valium). I used to use it for flying, but only ever took 1/2 a tab.
I hope he gets over it quickly this time. I know what you're going through, its so frustrating and scary having to watch them go through this. :hug:
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I spoke to the vet about this today too for sedating and calming. It's generic valium - it will last about 8 hours but he may be groggy for a bit after that too. It also makes most cats very hungry. the vet said most side effect probs are with IV Valium/diazepam so 1/4 pill should hopefully be nice and safe. It's an old drug, had a bad press in the UK in recent years because of habit forming, but safe and very useful. Hope it helps Freddy and he's not too spaced out for too long.
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He had something else like it before (began with a C ) but i didnt like how it made him.....so vet said we would try Diazepam this time.
He is already acting differently, its making me cry but i think i gotta stick this out, after all its not about me
as i'm writting this he is falling over...God i hate it :'( its like he is off his head
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I spoke to the vet about this today too for sedating and calming. It's generic valium - it will last about 8 hours but he may be groggy for a bit after that too. It also makes most cats very hungry. the vet said most side effect probs are with IV Valium/diazepam so 1/4 pill should hopefully be nice and safe. It's an old drug, had a bad press in the UK in recent years because of habit forming, but safe and very useful. Hope it helps Freddy and he's not too spaced out for too long.
Yes he is eating loads Kate, keeps going to his bowl
but he is walking like he has just had an anisetic (sp) its horrible, he keeps falling to the side...wish i had never given it to him....i hate it :'( :'(
Is Swampy taking this Kate ?
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not yet in tablet form but he may have to. He had 5mgs IV after his seizures, which knocked him out for quite a while, but it saved him. You could try next time with 1/8th tab if you can cut it so small, but diazepam's soft so it may just fragment. I'm not sure if you can add the powder from 1/8th to water and syringe it into Freddy, but you could ask the vet? Max has had 1/4 tab from the vet a few times; it made him very drunk and hungry (but not unhappy, he was very calm!) but it does wear off, don't worry. It's often used to make sick cats eat in hospital. I also didn't like the drunkenness so Max was moved on to busparone (didn't work too well though apparently it does for some cats). It's another anti anxiety drug and doesn't make them sedated. I think vets prefer diazepam as it's a bit safer (?).
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Sylvester sufferred from recurrent cystitis as was never prescribed that. Managing him on a strict urinary diet worked in the end.
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not yet in tablet form but he may have to. He had 5mgs IV after his seizures, which knocked him out for quite a while, but it saved him. You could try next time with 1/8th tab if you can cut it so small, but diazepam's soft so it may just fragment. I'm not sure if you can add the powder from 1/8th to water and syringe it into Freddy, but you could ask the vet? Max has had 1/4 tab from the vet a few times; it made him very drunk and hungry (but not unhappy, he was very calm!) but it does wear off, don't worry. It's often used to make sick cats eat in hospital. I also didn't like the drunkenness so Max was moved on to busparone (didn't work too well though apparently it does for some cats). It's another anti anxiety drug and doesn't make them sedated. I think vets prefer diazepam as it's a bit safer (?).
Thanks Kate.
You are right the tablet just crumbled when i cut it. I have text my vet and he has replied saying either give him less tomorrow or stop them if i really dont like it....but not to worry, how he is behaving it is quiet normal. he said some cats will just go to sleep while others will become hypa (which freddy has)
He is still falling all over the place, it hasnt sedated him at all.
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He is just starting to calm down ...... laying on sofa now.
I will give him even less tomorrow
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Personally I wouldnt use it, it was given to Franta by injection to make him eat and after its done that it will make them all groggy and falling around which is the sedative effect.
The second time they gave Franta much less than the first time and he still didnt eat so had to give him more. He was then gonna stay at the vets for an hour or so till he calmed down but was so noisy and hyper and upset I brought him home, by then over an hour later he could hardly walk and was falling over.
I think its a horrible drug for cats or humans, I was given it as a sedative but in quite large dose that within about 1/2 hour of the final dose, I couldnt walk straight, just like Franta. Then I would be really ill having been pumped full of it again by IV until it got out of my system.
I will not let the vet use it again........well she would have to have a really good reason and him not eating is not gonna be it!
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I remember Lynn saying once that Diazepam is given in small doses as an appetite stimulant, although not so much thesedays since steroids are usually used. I'm prety sure Diazepam is the generic drug for Valium. (My doctor put me on Diazepam when I was about 15 but I stopped taking them as I felt spaced out)
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Swampy would have died in September if not for diazepam and I think it's an amazing drug when used correctly. Valium's the drug co brand name for diazepam, which is the basic drug. For behaviour or stress issues treated daily, I'm not sure that it would be my first choice unless nothing else worked, because it makes them groggy and gives them the munchies. But it's an old drug and really safe, unlike the anti depressants that get handed out now to animals and people, which can have horrible side effects. My vet was very hesitant to try the anti depressant calming route with Swampy.
If it dissolves in water (?) you could give a really tiny dose by syringe if necessary? Has anyone tried that ever?
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I think its a horrible drug for cats or humans,
I am not using it again Gill ....it was so horrible !
Freddy only had a 1/4 but it worked within 15mins.....he was falling all over the place, freaking out and jumping at everything he saw, i was crying my eyes out!
It took over an hour for him to calm down
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I will have to see if it is the same pills I was given for the cats when we moved. There is one left (I need to bin it) - Kylie was really wobbly when she cam round. Hers eyes were like saucers and she was behaving like a baby kitten. It really freaked me out. She was purring like mad but I think it was because she was freaked out :(
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Diazepam was prescribed for Phoebe last year by the new vet to calm her enough for the vet journey , i remember that they didnt have any in surgery and i took the prescription to the pharmacy next door and collected it, it was 10mg tablets and made her really drunk and weak and i didnt like it , so they started prescribing Xanax instead.
I think 1/4 tablet is just to make Freddy calm and less stressed, but it seems like it made him hyp so ask your vet if he can prescribe something else. X
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10mg is enormous! Far too much to give a cat and also for a human unless in special; circumstances.
Think I was given tabs of either 3mg or 5 mg, cant rememebr now. Used to have to take one before going to bed and then one an hour before getting to where I was going, They do work very quickly and by the time I got to the station I was already drunk. I knew what I was doing but walking very slow, by an hour was doppy too. I could feel the effect of them working and it was only way they could get an IV into me cos it relaxed my body enough so that a vein could be found.
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10mg would be too much for a human - are you sure about the size, Pav? It's normally prescribed as 2mg or 5mg tablets for people. And yes, Mark, Valium was the manufacturer's name for Diazepam. I must say that I've taken it a couple of times and haven't noticed any effects at all. I find two glasses of red wine is better for anxiety - and it works quicker (this is a serious comment, not a flippant one).
However, I digress - I hope Freddy is OK today, Michelle?
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10mg would be too much for a human - are you sure about the size, Pav?
Yes Christine, i am sure it was 10mg , i have the description on the invoice ( Diazepam 10mg tabs Qty 1, price £8.07), and the reason i didnt like it because after i brought her home for 2 whole days she was really weak and could hardly get up and didnt look right, she was purring all the times which was unusuall for Phoebe, but now that i read Mark post about Kylie i am thinking maybe it was the effect of the tablet!
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Nothing to add that is helpful I'm afraid except that Molly ( my 20kg Border Collie ) was prescribed 10mg tablets of Diazepam in November. She was on it for 4 or 5 days. The instructions were 1 tablet every 4-8 hours if required. Have to say though she didn't have any noticeable effects that people are mentioning here for humans/cats alike :scared: You couldn't even tell she was on them.
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10mg would be too much for a human - are you sure about the size, Pav?
Yes Christine, i am sure it was 10mg , i have the description on the invoice ( Diazepam 10mg tabs Qty 1, price £8.07), and the reason i didnt like it because after i brought her home for 2 whole days she was really weak and could hardly get up and didnt look right, she was purring all the times which was unusuall for Phoebe, but now that i read Mark post about Kylie i am thinking maybe it was the effect of the tablet!
Freddys tablets are 5mg and he is meant to have a 1/4 of one.....but to be honest that was too much.
My vet has said to give him less if i carry on with them, which i am not !!!
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He had something else like it before (began with a C ) but i didnt like how it made him.....so vet said we would try Diazepam this time.
Michelle, was it called Clomicalm?
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He had something else like it before (began with a C ) but i didnt like how it made him.....so vet said we would try Diazepam this time.
Michelle, was it called Clomicalm?
YES ...thats the one !!!!
didnt like what they did to him either
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My vet says that cysitis is caused by stress...which i know is right....however i beg to differ with Freddy !!
He is soooooo NOT stressed lol
but my vet says it could be something as simple as another cat sits where he wanted to sit and that would be enough to make him stressed
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I just checked the tablets Kylie had and they were ACP 10mg - never again.
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I just checked the tablets Kylie had and they were ACP 10mg - never again.
Did she have a whole one Mark ?
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Yes - they gave me 5 tablets for some reason for 3 cats - it says "One tablet to be given 1/2 hour before desired effect" - it knocked Clapton out and Kylie went doolally. Willow put up a fight so we decided that it was only 1 1/2 hours in the car max so didn't give her one.
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Yes - they gave me 5 tablets for some reason for 3 cats - it says "One tablet to be given 1/2 hour before desired effect" - it knocked Clapton out and Kylie went doolally. Willow put up a fight so we decided that it was only 1 1/2 hours in the car max so didn't give her one.
flipping eck i'm not surprsied poor babies !
Fred only had a 1/4 of a 5mg one and that was bad enough
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My vet says that cysitis is caused by stress...which i know is right....however i beg to differ with Freddy !!
Its true its the main cause but was he fully investigated for physical cause? x rays and urine analysis?
I dont agree with these sorts of treatment programs for animals, i would rather rehome then keep a pet doped up :( Diazepam was the last thing to try for Taz had i not managed to stop most of his episodes, fortunately i can work out his triggers and minimise them as much as possible
Yes - they gave me 5 tablets for some reason for 3 cats - it says "One tablet to be given 1/2 hour before desired effect" - it knocked Clapton out and Kylie went doolally. Willow put up a fight so we decided that it was only 1 1/2 hours in the car max so didn't give her one.
flipping eck i'm not surprsied poor babies !
Fred only had a 1/4 of a 5mg one and that was bad enough
ACP is a totally different drug to Diazepam so they werent OD'd ;D
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I just checked Noah and it says 1 - 3mg per 1Kg bodyweight but nevertheless, I would never allow my cats to have it again - it really scared me.
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for what it's worth, my prescription if needed is 1/4 of a 2mg diazepam tablet, so a much smaller dose. And clomicalm was the anti-depressant (SSRI I think) med that my vet thought about, then thought no, nasty side effects. It used to be used a lot for stress cystitis, but apparently the evidence that it works is pretty flimsy.
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Erm...can I say something re: Diazepam, as someone whos been put on it herself....I would not take it unless there was no other option. It is an unpleasent drug and HIGHLY sddictive (unlike modern antidepressants- though they can be savage in thier own way, There is no AD without side effects, end of story). I would refuse to let this anywhere near a cat of mine unless it was life or death, such as in Swamps case. Bless him he's been through so much :Luv:
I was on 3mg and it hit me so hard I could do nothing but lay there and wait for it to go......I suppose the reaction to the drug depends on the cat as it does on the person, but in my case I hate sedation and fight it (which is where the hyper part comes from i'm guessing) or it's like they're drunk.... you know like some drunks sit quietly and don't move or they're tearing the place apart :shify:
I would have another discussion with the vet, there's gotta be another treatment that can be tried (it may just mean the vet has to use thier brain instead of just reaching for the medicine cabinet) :innocent:
Good luck. :hug:
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Michelle, what other things have been tried for Freddy before? what investigations have been done? As MM mentioned, urine tests etc? What about diet, have you tried changing that? Have you tried Cystaid or Zylkene?Cystitis very often can be stress related, but as you said, stress to a cat could be something as simple as another cat sitting where he wants to sit, or another cat looking at him the wrong way - subtle things that we wouldnt think as being stressful. More often though, its a combination of stress, diet, water intake, weight, activity levels etc.
I know with my Ben when he had cystitis years ago, and ultimiately a blockage, to me at the time, he didnt seem stressed. But when I really sat and thought, there were stresses in his life at the time it started, made worse by moving house, plus I was feeding dry food only. It tipped him over the edge, once I researched it, changed his diet and things settled after the move - he never had another problem.
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Ruth you are right it is addictive , although it seems to takes a while for the addiction to kick in cos I was on small tabs for a couple of years for treatment for my stomach after it was eventually proved that I did not have an ulcer. I just stopped taking them, not even a slow stop. They did stop all the stomach pain I had been having cos it was just anxiety.
However the larger tabs that I needed on special occasions, started to have horrible effects when they were wearing off and after IV. When changed to another drug I was much better and had no side effects, except the drunkeness at the beginning, which was what was the desired effect.
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Hi Gillian,
Freddy has had it on and off for the last year.
The first time he had it was the worse, he ended up being rushed in and having his blader expressed.
Since then he has had it a couple more times but it normally respones to Metacam (bladder inflamed rather than blocked), however this time it didnt so he went and had an antibiotic injection. This is when the vet gave me the these tablets.
We tried Clomicalm last time but again i hated the way he was on the tablets.
He has also had steroid tablets before.
Each time he has had it the vet has felt his bladder and it has always be tiny (apart from the 1st time). My vet has now showed me how to feel for his bladder.
I am going to get some cystaid.....now is this the one that my vet says you can buy from a chemist ??
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Michelle once they have suffered from cystitis it does tend to be recurrent as we found with Vesti but changing his diet helped radically.
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His bladder wouldnt have to be full for there to be crystals causing irritation and inflammation, your vet should rule this out before labelling him as an idiopathic case and bunging him on such strong drugs.
Personally id be demanding an analysis and x ray :shy:
You can buy cystaid & zylkene online at vet uk etc wayy cheaper ;D
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My experiences with feline cystitis is it usually stress related.
When Jess was admitted the second time with a partial blockage he was given Diazepam whilst at the vets to calm him down as he was incredibly stressed out (Jess's problem is he gets stressed and won't wee). My experience is that cats can't use this long term.
If they are trying to destress Freddie I would have thought they would have suggest Amitriptyline but at the end of the day these drugs don't get to the bottom of the stress.
We now manage Jess's with cystease to help the bladder lining and zylkene to calm him down. We also saw a behaviourist, these combinations have worked well for us.
How is Freddie doing?
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Is this what i should be buying ?
http://www.vetuk.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1146
Freddy only eats dry food so i will have to give them whole, how big are the caplets ??
He seems to be wee'ing ok at the moment. I am not using the Diaxepam again, it took him a full 24hrs to properly recover
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Thats exactly what I buy. Jess has one tablet twice a day.
We shove them (not literally) down his thoat (do the same with Zylkene too) they are normal sized.
Will freddy not eat wet food?
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Thats exactly what I buy. Jess has one tablet twice a day.
We shove them (not literally) down his thoat (do the same with Zylkene too) they are normal sized.
Will freddy not eat wet food?
No he doesn't like it ...he might lick at it now and then but never actually eats it !!
Ok so i need to get both tablets too then ?
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Do you think Freddies water intake is giving him cystitis?
I'd try Zylkene if he is stressy