Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat Health & Behaviour => For FIV & FELV babes => Topic started by: Liz on June 04, 2008, 20:11:32 PM
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I am spitting feathers to put a finer point on something that happened yesterday and involved the local branch of our CP
A girl trapped a tom cat she had been feeding and CP said they would neuter him for her - she was surprised but agreed that they could pay for it and she would make a donation to them.
Poor Sydney tested positive for FIV whilst under anasthetic and they put him to sleep - he was 18 months old and would have had a forever home to
It makes me so mad but the lady from CP said she could have another cat from them! Emma the girl involved is beside herself and doesn't want anything to do with them, she was willing to keep her little stray but CP advised her it would have a slow painful death and putting to sleep was a kinder action!
I wish she had paid attention at our team build and she would have remembered that we would have tried to help her and poor Sydney stay together with help from another CP branch with a kinder FIV Policy
No wonder they are desperate for helper me for one I won't be attending or donating sod all to them and will make my felings known as it is our vets practice and they should know they could have phoned us if CP were going to do this and we would have helped out >:(
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I can't believe that, this sort of thing makes me MAD >:(
My boy was only 2 when he was picked up as a stray, he tested positive, but he's fine, and now nearly 10 years old and living the life of riley wrapping me round his paws.
If the cat is older and sick I can understand maybe pts if there's no hope, but for a young otherwise healthy cat, its just terrible, I hope they can live with themselves ............ :'(
I though there was supposed to be more knowledge out there about this sort of thing now :'(
RIP poor little dude x
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Poor Emma and poor Sydney!
RIP Sydney ... you knew love and friendship little man I'm just sorry you weren't allowed to experience it for longer.
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This doesn't surprise me in the least, evil :censored: Our local branch does the same with the ferals, whether they are healthy or not, FIV is a good excuse for a death sentence. I often wonder how they can sleep at night >:( >:(
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That is :censored: terrible ! :censored: CP.....poor Emma and poor Sydney xxxxx
The Father of my Issey's kittens turned out to be FIV...He was a stray cat and one day i caught him as he was injured, I had asked the local branch for help and was told to take him to a local vet.
He was tested for FIV/FeLV and came up as positive, as he was down through the CP they instructed for him to be PTS.
I said he could be signed over to me but the CP would not allow it, I even begged !!
:'( So the only thing i could do was be with him as he was PTS.
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Scumbags, :censored: scumbags!
Harry my fathers cat was diagnosed FIV+ at the age of 6.....apart from dental problems which meant every tooth in his head had to go he had a fantastic life until he passed away from liver cancer last year age 15. Long painful death I think not! his biscuits went down whole no messing!
My sympathies to poor Emma and Sydney :hug: :hug: :hug:
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It's hearing things like this that make me wonder if I should volunteer for CP - even though our branch would NEVER PTS a cat unless it was very sick or too badly injured to help. It's about time they had a blanket policy. I have been thinking about my will lately and would never leave my money to any charity that killed animals needlessly. The same reason I would never donate to Cancer Research UK as they experiment on animals. I would never contribute to any kind of animal suffering. >:(
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Liz - I am so sorry
:RIP: Sydney
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That is so terribly sad and only 18 months old :'(
RIP Sydney and I am sure the others on the Bridge will tell you many of us are not like that.
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That branch should be shut down :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored:
I have no patience with people like that -bloody :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: the lot of them.
Poor little Sydney cat and poor Emma :hug: :hug: to you .
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This is awful and would also be the actions of my local cp.
Michelle I have been in the same situation and said I would take the cat home with me, they only agreed if I would pay the cost. They do not have the right to tell you they are going to pts said cat.
Who gives them the say anyway! :censored:
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Michelle I have been in the same situation and said I would take the cat home with me, they only agreed if I would pay the cost. They do not have the right to tell you they are going to pts said cat.
This is how it usually works, if they are funding it the vet has to do what they say :'( I know with the ferals, my friend took some in for spaying/neutering, she was informed they would be blood tested on the say so of CP. What she didn't realise was they would be euthanised if positive, and sadly 2 were, both youngsters and in good health >:( >:(
This is why whatever happens, I will only do rescue on an independant level, I then have the say on what happens to any cats in my care, and euthanising FIV babes does not come into the equation.
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If FIV is that awful and harmfull for others how come humans dont get killed! Because that would be murder, well I feel this is the same for cats. What does cp stand for again???!
You know all it is is having one less un-rehomeable mouth to feed.
You would think people in this roll would be taught to understand these illnesses more.
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I used to think my friend who worked for the CP was brainwashed, she had her set way of doing things because that's how CP did it and she wouldn't budge at all. I have though over the years, given her a few things to think about and why their way is sometimes wrong ;) She is coming round to my thinking on a lot of things but there's still some way to go :tired: One dispute we are having at the moment is releasing female ferals too early after spaying. I have always been told by my vet to try and keep them for 10 days, sometimes this is too stressfull but I usually keep them no less than a week before release. Our local CP release them the following day and so does my mate >:( I've spent some time the last couple of days drumming it into her about keeping them a few days until she knows the skin is knitted together, I think she's now contemplating doing this but will probably change her mind again :sneaky:
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Yes I would say thats the awful thing in working for a branch, you have to follow their rules. But I suppose the worker must agree with them to work there. :shy:
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This is so sad, luckily not all CP branches are like this, mine has successfully homed FIV+ cats and allowed one to live his life out there as he also had cancer.
Mark - I always look at it that by doing it, we can help more cats, and try and change people's ways of thinking. Although my RSPCA do pts FIV+ due to similar reasons to what CP have said to people on this thread, so I Wont support them.
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This also makes me make an i am the rehoming officer for our CP, especially when i go to endless lenght to sort out FIV cats including taking them to other branches to get rehomed. The Thomas me and Mark took to HQ a few weeks back is now up for rehoming after no rescue would take him in this way and we were full up.. Its so easy to PTS, i agree its not easy finding homes but we do eventually.. What we would do with a FIV at the moment if one come in i am not sure as we are full up but we would sort something out... We are already on our 3rd FIV cat this year and i know that Folkestone branch has rehomed 2 so, but i do think HQ should hold a seminar or something regarding FIV so that all branches at least have the facts to hand and realise that with abit of effort they can be rehomed. Its probably because no one can be bothered to call around rescues or find other branches that would take a cat like this or spend hours on the phone or even getting in a car and taking it to another branch..
I could never have it on my conscience that we didnt at least try!
Why would they PTS a FIV puss when they had a home lined up for it? Senseless
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The branch is run by some of the old school types and they are always saying they need help etc but a few folks are *****ed of by them and we have been doing a bit of trapping for some farmers out here and then getting them done by opur vet under my Name and vets account and farmers pay me and take the cats back.
Any nice ones I move down the country to a nice CP branch and they home them on - it works nd thank god there are braches with folks who help and not hinder!
We as a couple put in nearly £4000 a year to CP to our old branch and do 300 miles to help out where we can and take on some of their impossible ones - in this years case its Miss Cissy aged 14ish, and Smudger and Ragamuffin about 7ish 3 ferals who the carer wanted to stay together and a nasty farmer was going to shall we say help them derpart the mortal coil in a not nice way!
These 3 are doing really well and use litter trays and will be integrated with my mob later this month once Gems 3 are up and moving!
I don't regret having Hissy Holly our FIV feral for anything my only regret is we could only be her carers for 8 months and not longer - she was a lovely tabby girl and is still missed by both of us and her beloved Sailor who shared her room to the end and has never entered it since she left us for the bridge
We would do it again and no doubt further down the line and depending on what we trap here will add another FIV soul to our ranks.
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I thought they were supposed to help cats >:( >:( >:(
Poor lad - night night sweet boy xxxx
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That's such sad news, poor Sydney.
It is hard to believe it still happens now so much more is known about FIV.
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RIP poor little Sydney, and all my sympathies to Emma :hug:
I am so disappointed that a CP branch could do something like this, when a home was ready and waiting for this little boy :'(
In this day and age, when so much more information is available about FIV, I would have expected them to act in a more enlightened way. This makes me so very, very sad.
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My last vet was for PTS with FIV cats - He used to say it was the only way to try and stop the problem ... :censored: idiot !
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I think the best thing to do in this type of situation is for all concerned to contact CP HQ. Hopefully if they are aware of a problem they can see if they can do something about it, although not I appreciate for the little on concerned this time.
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I think CP Mission Statement should be challenged.
Cats Protection is the UK’s leading cat welfare charity enjoying the support of over 6,500 volunteers. Our vision is ‘to ensure that every cat is given the chance of a life where it will be treated with kindness and understanding of its needs’. We will achieve this through our three key objectives of finding good homes for cats in need, by supporting and encouraging the neutering of cats and by improving people’s understanding of cats and their care.
Having said, CP HQ took on our last FIV cat and he had improved his temperament and was in the rehoming block the last we heard. I think HQ shouldn't make it simple for branches for PTS without very good reason. This is my biggest gripe with them.
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I have just had an e-mail from someone I lost in touch with last year when her computer broke, she no longer volunteers with CP as the last lot she trapped were PTS when tested positive, apparently they said it was down to instructions from HQ, so I wonder if they were saying it to cover themselves cos of her reaction.
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Makes me sick, not really cp at all or they only like to deal with nice domesticated cats >:(
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Maybe they ought to consider changing their name from Cats Protection!!
This makes me so angry!! There are people out there who will re-home FIV+ boys and girls, maybe the CP ought to spend some time looking for them!!
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Just to say that his "Mum" Emma is still very upset but will not be using CP again and will in future she says come to us for help and she will pay for anything in the future through us at our vet and get our discount and keep any future strays!
On that front we ran and FIV+ with ours for 8 months - Miss Hissy Holly the feral and non of ours have tested positive - I did get a bit paranoiic but all ours are fine and our 3 older ferals just adopted aged 14 and 7ish will not be tested but are off to the vet in July for all boosters and Program which our old CP branch is paying for for the rest of their lives with us.
Miss Cissy, Ragamuffin and Smudger are all now house cats and have adapted after all their lives outside and love the home comforts and are getting used to the wood pellets rather than the nice clay they came with!
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:censored: :censored: :censored:
This is so sad, and so so inexcusable I think. How dare they make that sort of decision. Its so saddening knowing that the poor baby had a home to go to - his potential meowmy must be appauled at this.
Poor poor baby. RIP little man :'(
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We might all want to think about the fact that we don't know the branches reasoning for doing this, nor are they here to defend themselves. It could be down to somethign like lack of volunteers, and therefore space, and if they had a lot of cats/kittens in, they might not have had any option. i Think it is very unfair to make comments about CP as a whole about this, we know from Ela and Sharon's posts that they dont just deal with nice, young, easy to home cats, and sweeping comments may prevent people helping, and that will only cause these things to happen more, we only have a limited amount of space.
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Yes Foster volunteers are very thin on the ground. As far as I know, our branch hasn't had to make a decision like this - but what do people do when all the fosterers are full? - we have cats at the vets as there is nowhere for them to go - our branch is also paying cattery fees for a cat until there is a space. There is a breaking point where people have cats in bathrooms etc. If there is absolutely nowhere for them to go, what happens? - Sharon & I even drove an FIV boy 50 miles the other week as there was a space at CP HQ.
I in no way condone PTS FIV cats - I'm just pointing out facts.
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I can understand that too, with FIV cats being harder to home generally, sometimes a decision may have to be taken if there really is nowhere for them to go :( I know Max was pretty close to having that decision made about him, as he had already been homed and came back to the pens as he was a little 'boisterous'.
BUT, in this instance, this baby already had a home lined up, which is completely inexcusable :(
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BUT, in this instance, this baby already had a home lined up, which is completely inexcusable :(
I agree :(
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Yes Foster volunteers are very thin on the ground. As far as I know, our branch hasn't had to make a decision like this - but what do people do when all the fosterers are full? - we have cats at the vets as there is nowhere for them to go - our branch is also paying cattery fees for a cat until there is a space. There is a breaking point where people have cats in bathrooms etc. If there is absolutely nowhere for them to go, what happens? - Sharon & I even drove an FIV boy 50 miles the other week as there was a space at CP HQ.
I in no way condone PTS FIV cats - I'm just pointing out facts.
I agree 100% Mark. It's easy for people to judge and I'm in no way saying pts is always the answer but sometimes it sadly is :'( I had this argument with a friend of mine a while ago, I had a couple of ferals and nowhere for them to go. Her answer was to release them somewhere and they would survive :Crazy: If I was ever faced with this dilemma and that was my choices, I would opt to pts. I would rather a cat be pts humanely than for them to die of some other forsaken reason. I know I felt sickened awhile ago when I first found out certain rescues were taking cats in off people and then putting them sleep, I really couldn't get my head round the fact someone would do that :'( :'( After a lot of soul searching, I can understand it. People threaten all sorts when you won't take a cat in, poisoning, dumping by the side of the road etc etc, what does a rescue do if they are full? Would people rather the cat suffer and die extremely painfully or let them die humanely? It's a horrible thing and I'm glad it's not something I have had to deal with but with homeless animals getting more and more, this is probably something all rescues will have to consider in the future :'( :'(
As regards to FIV babes, I have a gorgeous FIV boy in at the moment, he is such a sweetheart but if he wasn't rehomed, he would be staying here with me. I love him to bits and don't look on him as a unhomeable, it would be lovely if people saw beyond the illness and gave them a chance, rescues included.
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I suppose that is why CP have to coldly look at the big picture and push neutering (was it 165,000 someone quoted?)
I wish I could find it again but there was a poem I read written from the point of view of someone in an American rescue that has to do the deed, asking people if they really think they enjoy doing it and "If not me, who will do it?" - It is heartbreaking but when you read the figures for New York - something like 10,000 animals a week taken into rescues (don't know the exact figure but it was a lot) what can they do? - Neuter, Neuter, Neuter is the only way and why I can't get my head round breeding.
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I wish I could find it again but there was a poem I read written from the point of view of someone in an American rescue that has to do the deed, asking people if they really think they enjoy doing it and "If not me, who will do it?"
I think that was one that Des posted, totally heartbreaking and all because of human ignorance :'(
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Yeah, I think it was one of mine, I shall try and find it again when I have some time (next week probably), but there is also a thread on here somewhere with comments written by someone I talk to who volunteers in an animal rescue in the US, when they had to sadly make that decision for the first time in 4 years.
I also briefly read an article yesterday about people dumping more animals, if this continues to happen, things like this may become more common, cos we can't save them all. I turned down 5 cats last week, and one this week so far due to lack of space, and while I can give them other numbers, i suspect they are in the same position as us. The other option is direct homing, but if they aren't young, then they could be waiting ages - it took us nearly 2 months to home a friendly, gorgeous 2yo, because everyone wants kittens, and soo many people aren't willing to consider anything but.
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On Ron's website, for rehomed cats, it tells you "number of days in pen" which usually is in line with age/colour of cat :(
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And what happens to the kittens once they are kittens no more :(
The comment I made about cp was simply saying if some branches can take on fiv cats why is it an option for others to pts regardless of being healthy.
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This is awful and would also be the actions of my local cp.
Michelle I have been in the same situation and said I would take the cat home with me, they only agreed if I would pay the cost. They do not have the right to tell you they are going to pts said cat.
Who gives them the say anyway! :censored:
I had forgotten about this thread !!
I did offer to pay for the treatment he had been given if he could be signed over to me but because he had been booked in under the CP he was "their" cat !!
The CP women i was dealing with was "old school" and under the impression that all FIV cats should be PTS....and this was almost 5yrs ago now, I also didnt have the knowledge i have now either.
I was totally backed into a corner, there was nothing i could do.
Of course I had to have Issey and kittens tested, They were done as soon as I knew he was postive, in-house test which was negative (later send off for comformation)
I remember stroking him as he was PTS and telling him that his kittens had tested Negative for FIV, (i'm welling up now remembering it) I kissed his face and told him he had given them life not death :'(
I have a picture of him somewhere, I'll scan it later and post it
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I understand Michelle :hug:
This would of also happened to Blackie if he were fiv+ I did not know this before I took him to vets and only found out when I phoned the vets, he was already there, there would be nothing I could of done. My heart was sank for the whole time I was waiting to find out, wishing I had left him there. But thankfully he didnt have it and I was so relieved I cried.
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CC, they have the say as they are paying. The reason some branches do and some don't is probably down to volunteers, if they dont have enough volunteers, they can't help everyone, and there are cats that are higher priority like mum and kittens. My branch have kept and rehomed FIV+ cats, but they have someone who has the space, if they lose her, they are very restricted on anything that will take a long time to rehome, or unhomeable.
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Yeah but when the people who find the cat are willing to take it back its even more wrong. Just because they pay doesnt mean they should decide if it lives or dies, all the vouchers they give out to people and they dont have all those cats snap tested
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MAybe they assume that people wont have them back - but you would think they would at least check - someone needs to ask that question to a branch who does it. I know my local one only tests if they feel the need to. And as 7% of snap tests are inaccurate, that is 7 out of 100 who will be pts unnecessarily.
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they have the say as they are paying.
So they have the right to just pts without telling the person who took the cat in? And another thing Blackie did have a home to go to so this could of ended up in the same situation. If we are speaking from our own personal experiences how can anyone say thats not right.
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I still cannot understand why people get their knickers in a knot over FIV. I do not know if my cats have it as they have never been tested and I don't think I really need to know.
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I still cannot understand why people get their knickers in a knot over FIV. I do not know if my cats have it as they have never been tested and I don't think I really need to know.
My number 11 , Tramp who turned up here a year ago as a stray, was un-neutered and the chances he has FIV are pretty high but I have not had him tested and i am quiet happy that he lives with my other 10 cats (of course he is neutered now).
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Its the felv results that will screw more over >:( >:(
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Yep, not only do 42% show false positive, but cats should be retested 3 months later as they can shed the virus, and if they do, they have a natural lifelong immunity to it. I know that my local RSPCA pts on the first positive, reason was they can't hold a cat for 3 months in case it is negative. Only one of mine has ever been tested, and that was due to an unexplained high fever.
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They could easily retest straight away through glasgow knowing theres a good chance the cat is 100% healthy. Its a get out of jail excuse >:(
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That would mean holding the cat for 7-10 days for a Glasgow test to come back though!! Glasgow do actually recommend 2 tests though, I thought they did, but have just checked - their recommendation is for both positive and negative though, as if they have recently been infected, it may not show up on the first test.
Interestingly, I have just found something else on Glasgow's site that says the prevalence of FeLV is around 1%, and therefore more than half of positives are false, those stats have gone up then - here is the link, as I may not be able to find it again!! http://www.gla.ac.uk/faculties/vet/cad/informationforvets/felineleukaemiavirusfelv/limitationsofin-practicetestsforfelvantigen/
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Part of the holding time for the strays owner to come forward then!! If one of my cats was tested and was 'positive' and pts before i had time to claim it back i would be flaming furious >:(
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Should be - that was one question I forgot to ask my local branch last year. i actually dont see the need to test every cat that is neutered, and they could still be homing FIV+ without knowing unless they test every cat including owner relinquishes.
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So they test the cat and pts without waiting for an owner to claim it? >:(
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Bristol now do a test that tests only for the VIRUS not the anti-bodies and it can be done on kittens as young as 8wks old
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Here is the thread, which has teh link as well as teh discussion, I think it is the right one.
http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php/topic,3008.0.html
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Thanks for that link Desley cos Dr Addies info is all gone now.
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The first thing I did after getting Figaro (my FIV+) neutered was to get him chipped (well actually I did it at the same time!) because if he ever gets out and gets lost my worst fear is that he'll end up somewhere that will test him and pts without waiting for me to find him, all because of his FIV.
My vet asked me what I "intended to do with him" when he tested positive and tried to tell me that FIV can be spread by sharing food bowls (I have other FIV- cats). WHAT?!!! :censored: >:( >:( Useless liar >:( I've changed vets now.
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Before I found Noah I e-mailed the local branch of the RSPCA asking to adopt an adult to an indoor environment (my own flat, no kids or pets, work part-time) - specifically offering to take a deaf or FIV cat. Got a very snotty reply basically saying they didn't agree with cats being indoor only .... so what do they do with deaf, blind, FIV, FeLV etc. etc.? Surely in a deprived northern city there are very few homes with a secure outdoor run? >:(
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Just so folks know we have had 2 FIV Cats here at the Clan sadly both departed to the Bridge but all ours are FIV_ as we had to test all of them except dear Ace after we lost Gem a rescue and 3 of her 4 kittens to FIP
So far all our trapped ones here have been FIV negative - vets think it cause we feed the same indoor and outdoor and always have in the vets words trapped ferals in nearly as good nick as our own 47 :shocked:
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I don't understand why FIV+ cats can't be transferred to a branch that takes them in? So unfair!
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Sadly it depends on the branch
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Heartbreaking that this is still going on. I have 6 FIV+ cats and 6 FIV-.
For any rescues that want good info on FIV, please direct to the Glasgow University Vet School Web site;
http://www.gla.ac.uk/faculties/vet/cad/informationforowners/felineimmunodeficiencyvirusfiv/felineimmunodeficiencyvirusfivtests/
also good info on Bob Hunt's website . Bob and Barbara Hunt have a sanctuary for FIV, FeL and special needs cats in Somerset. They are wonderful people. I foster one of their FIVs.
www. catwork.co.uk
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I just wish people, including some vets, would take the time to learn about the condition !