Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat General => General Cat Chat => Topic started by: tigerbaby on February 20, 2008, 16:46:51 PM
-
I have discussed the topic of Pet Insurance on many forums and with friends/family, as well as doing extensive research on the net.
I have discovered that A LOT of people do not believe in Pet Insurance and instead recommends opening a savings account for Pet Health care and Emergencies.
I just recieved a message on Yahoo Answers where someone said this:
''Hi there...most pet insurer's only provide preventative care and rarely offer enough financial assistance in urgent care. Based on some of the research noted on the Internet, some pet insurance agencies can go out of business leaving the insured without any coverage so it's best to select from companies who are financially doing well and been around for some time as well.
Most of my clients opt to put aside a monthly allotment of funds in a savings account that can earn interest for pet care and emergencies. Those who do this generally find that this is more ideal especially in times when there is an emergency situation.
* 13 hours ago
Source(s):
Animal Trainer to domestic and exotic cats
28 year friendship with a veterinarian"
What are your views on this, and does any of you have a bank savings account for your pet? While I think this is a great idea longterm, there is always that ''what if'' something happens 2 months down the line and you're stood there with only £20 in your account.
-
I think that everyone should have insurance with a good company.................the goal posts on this keep moving though!
I do not think a savings account works cos if involved in a RTA or needs urgent treatment for something serious, one can be looking at thousands of pounds and just a basic visit to a vet can cost over £50.
About 3 weeks ago had to take Ducha and the bill came to £49.00. so less than excess of £ 50 and if I had only a small savings account will be used up very quickly even just on excess, plus boosters and annual MOT. Sasa also had to go as emergency in Dec and bill was just under £190 cos she had to be sedated and xrayed and treated and I wasnt even charged emergency rates.
Someone on Purrs said they had a credit card that was kept just for emergencies for the cats because of most vets insisting that payment is made upfront before insurance claim goes in and I think thats a good idea. I am waiting for someone to offer me a new card for this purpose cos my cards are both broke and now its worrying how to pay.
So to summerize, insurance absolutely vital from the minute you get a cat and second, back up finance to pay the bill before a claim is made and to cover excess and other trips nor covered by insurance. A definate no way to just having a saving account cos do not think this will ever be big enough to cover for serious emergencies. If it is you probably are rich enough not to need insurance!!
-
I would opt for insurance, saving account is ok if you dont need it for 10 years!
The specialist animal hospitals will often take direct payment from some insurance companies, when i was looking at George have 2k of tests at AHT they were happy to deal direct with M&S. These are the bills that you really need cover for.
£8 a month into a savings account would not have helped George one bit! :(
-
I doubt I would have the discipline not to dip into savings account when short of money for other things - it could soon go.
-
The spare credit card theory is good - I have a one that I never use.
I have insured Jameson so he will be covered, I am that kind of person who is rather safe than sorry.
The reason I was so curious is because SO many people don't bother with insurance, and of all cat owners I know (in real life; friends and family) only ONE has their cat insured. When I speak to some friends or family they think I am crazy having my cat insured; they're like - 'look at us, we've owned cats all our lives and not once have we needed help financially - the cats have always been in good health'.
-
I read a lot about cats when Kocka walked into my life many years ago and read the cat magazines, cos I knew nothing.
The thing that stuck in my head most was the constant pleas from the cat magazines to get your cats insured asap, so I did with Kocka and low and behold within 6 months it was costing a fortune at the vets,,,,,,,,,,,I was so relieved for insurance ;D
-
Just ringing my way round the insurance companies to see if any offer discount for indoor cats whose risk is obviously less for certain conditions:
M & S - No
Sainsbury - No
Virgin - No
Petplan - Not phoning them, no free number.
Tesco - No free number.
I don't expect to find any of course.
-
I think that what you have to remember with a lot of forums and things like yahoo answers is that a lot of people are from the US. I get the impression that insurance over there is nowhere near as good as over here, with all sorts being excluded.
Putting money away is one option, but you need to think about how much you could put away, whether you really would not touch it (and not be tempted to dip into it for other things), and how long it would take to build up a sizeable sum. For example, when my Magpie died 2 years ago the vet treatment (for just a few hours at the vet) cost nearly £2000. I got all that back from petplan minus the excess. Say I'd saved £7 a month (his premium was about £4 when I first took out insurance for him as a kitten, and about £7 when he died) - it would have taken over 20 years for me to save up that amount. I wouldn't have saved up enough to pay for his treatment. So while it's not a bad idea to set up a savings account, it's important to think about the fact that something could happen straight away and would you be able to pay it without insurance?
I think premiums are going up everywhere, and conditions are getting tougher with more and more being excluded. That is almost inevitable because of the high rate of claims with pet insurance. The companies have to stay one step ahead and make a profit. But I still think it's well worth it. It gives me peace of mind and i'm prepared to pay for that.
-
I think you are right , none of them do but have some sympathy cos how many indoor cats do we hear of just on Purrs who manage to slip outside when the didnt oughta ;D
-
Oh absolutely Gill, but a discount with an, um, outside incidents exclusion clause should be available for those who want it.
-
I do believe that in the US you can get policies for indoor cats. Obviously a cat can get outside and a lot of these things are taken on trust (eg when you take out home insurance no-one comes to check you have the locks you say you have). I suppose an indoor policy would exclude anything that happened to a cat outside (which might not be a good thing as it wouldn't cover an accident happening to a cat who had escaped). My boys have never got out by mistake, but I guess there is only me living here ;D
-
I've not managed to find a co that insures indoor cats for less. Personally I'd take insurance in the UK every time as vets bills are so high. The spare credit card may not work if it's just kept for that, as credit card cos are now cancelling people's cards if they don't use them enough :censored:. I would say the dual approach is a good idea if you can afford it - to put aside some money in a 'cat account' and have the best insurance you can get. As your cats get older, the excesses go up to about 35% of every claim too.
-
I always advise people to have insurance, I might just be unfortunate with my cats, but I do have a knack of finding cats with expensive illnesses, and before I knew about insurance, I had an incredibly high credit card!! Sainsbury's paid around £500 for PEbbles in the first year of her insurance, I would have had to put away £40-£50 just for that, and then you have boosters, flea and worm treatment on top of that (and I did have 2 cats at the time), and Tigers limp started about 6 weeks after she was insured, i didn't even have her insured for a year and they paid out nearly £1000 (I think, the specialist dealt directly with them, but think it was around £800, plus what I spent at my own vet, which was way over £200), I couldnt have saved that money up - or if I could, I would have been screwed if Molly had become ill as well.
-
Oh absolutely Gill, but a discount with an, um, outside incidents exclusion clause should be available for those who want it.
They may decide that indoor cats are more prone to obesity therefore leading to a higher incidence of bladder problems and diabetes, best they dont start thinking about the difference :rofl:
-
Well if I can get my paws on another credit card for this purpose then I will, if they cancel it I have not lost anything but they have lost a potential customer :rofl: :rofl:
I would then start looking for another card etc etc
I am not actively seeking one but should my bank offer again, I will ;D
-
I've got insurance for Max, even though he is FIV+ and anything they can attribute to it would not be covered.
However, its threads like the one where Mosi swallowed the string which made me realise how important insurance is, as its not just illnesses, they could be playing too hard and break a leg or anything.
CP have always offered to pay Max's vet bills for illness, but they are stretched enough....For me £11 a month is a small price to pay for peace of mind should something unexpected happen.
-
Just out of interest Clare, which insurance is Max with? I have been doing some shopping around. :tired:
Petplan quoted me £17.24 for their Cover for life plan (£4000 per condition, per year) for both kitties.
Anybody used Virgin before? Their " Accident and Illness Extra" plan (£6000 per condition, per year) and it was cheaper than Petplan! I am seriously thinking of using them.
Any views? I am always going to use the insurance which covers per condtion per year so I dont get caught out after a year if either one has a recurring illness.....
-
A friend of mine has her two persian babies insured with Virgin and she recommends them. But that's all I know!
-
Just out of interest Clare, which insurance is Max with? I have been doing some shopping around. :tired:
Heya, only just spotted this - Max is with AXA, used to be M&S but got a cheaper quote direct ;D
-
Try getting a quote from AXA Mojo, its £7000 a year and set at £50 excess.
-
Isnt Max 9, Clare? Molly costs me just over £11 a month and she is 15 (with Sainsburys)
-
Most of my friends don't have insurance either and maybe they have just been very lucky but in the three years I had Bertie before he was PTS I must have claimed about £1000 in vet fees and prob only paid about £288 in premiums so I def will be getting insurance for future cats.
What I did learn was the need to get insurance that covers a condiiton ongoing if it appears when the cat is insured. I have a claim for £600 which led to him ebing PTS and I doubt I will get anythign back as he first had anemia in 2006 - lesson learnt for me!
-
caledonia - insurance companies never cover an existing condition, hence it best to insure them as soon as you adopt them and before they have seen the vet.
-
For me £11 a month is a small price to pay for peace of mind should something unexpected happen.
Exactly the same for me - I can cope with the day to day sickies but if one of them got run over or had something really serious happen, I'd want to be able to march into the vets at whatever time of day or night and be able to tell them to do whatever is needed. Even a couple of simple tests can run to over £100 these days so I do think it's getting more and more worthwhile.
I'm also glad I insured them straight away while they are still relatively young and healthy - Geoffrey's kidney infection last week brought home to me how important it is to get in there before any problems develop which an insurer could then say is pre-existing.
I don't have the rabbits insured mainly because (apart from the tenner a month quote!) there is less likelihood of really pricey treatment and there are a lot of things they let me treat at home anyway which also makes it cheaper and less stressful for the buns.
-
Isnt Max 9, Clare? Molly costs me just over £11 a month and she is 15 (with Sainsburys)
Approx yes, should be about 10 in October.
-
caledonia - insurance companies never cover an existing condition, hence it best to insure them as soon as you adopt them and before they have seen the vet.
Yep - I was meaning a condition that occurs after they are insured. Bertie first got Anemia 6 months after he was insured - he was only covered for the 12 months after that so my claim just before Christmas will no doubt be turned down (as they ahve already said) as it was nearly 2 years after the first bout. So my new insurance for new cats covers the life of the condition - lesson learned! So the new kitties arrive tomorrow and took out insurance to start tomorrow - although they both have pre-existing conditions :-:
-
Claire - wonder why we pay the same price despite the difference in age?
Caledonia - I hate the fact that pet insurance is such a minefield, I Dont think companies shoudl be allowed to offer policies that expire after 12 months, as if you dont know much about it, you could end up not covered, as you have found out.
-
Totally - I had no idea. I also wasn't covered for his death - not that I care about that but with Axa it appears you get the purchase price back and some also over the cost of euthanasia - Tesco did none of that!!
Talking about difference in costs - I insured both my boys to start tomorrow when I get them. They are both 11 although Oscar is a month older but his insurance is nearly a pound cheaper a month!!!! The only difference I specified was their breeds- Oscar is Maine Coon and Edgar ragdolll - so that must be what made the difference in cost - unless I get a pound discount for insuring them both lol!!! I doubt it!!!
-
Sainsbury's cover part of the purchase cost in under 8's, but not over, and they have always covered euthanasia costs.
You do get a discount for insuring more than one animal, it is normally 5%, so not sure if that would equate to £1.
-
M&S gave me "market value" for George = £50 and they covered the home visit cost ( :evillaugh: how kind of them )
-
It is just under a pound so that will be exactly what it is ;D!
I wait with baited breath to see if tesco will cover anything! I doubt it. They are taking my claim over the 3 month time rule which is good of them - although I think that is just their general policy now!
-
I couldn't even imagine not having my cats insured.
Yes you have to find the money to pay out for treatment when you need it but at least if you have to borrow the money you know that person who you borrowed it off will get it back quickly.
When Sofa had to have lots of tests and procedures I had to borrow £500 off my parents but they knew they'd get it all back and they did as Tesco's Insurance paid out quickly. It took a little of the stress and worry out of it all.
-
Glad you have figured it out.
Another reason to avoid Tesco insurance then!! Sainsbury's have been slow with a few of my claims, but the first was complicated and she had seen 2 vets on teh same day.
I have a credit card purely for vets bills, to make sure I can pay until I get the money back.
-
Desley Tesco's have been quick to pay out.
-
Tesco were always quick to pay out - it is only now I realise that a lot of the stuff that others cover as standard the don't. Not to berate tesco though - I have my home insurance with them and that is excellent!
-
Caledonia interesting to know.
I guess everyone of us have our insurance nightmare stories don't we - mine is with E&L
-
MrsR - if Tesco only cover for 12 months, I would move any healthy animals now, before you get to the point they have pre-existing conditions.
-
Ah I see what you are saying now :shy:
-
No point in insurance if it doesn't cover all their illnesses - I Found out about pet insurance for senior cats too late - one had a liver condition, and I had just paid £165 for a dental and lump removal for the other!! Always recommend it now.
-
Only Bunty is not on Tesco's - she is on Sainsburys insurance.
-
Sainsbury's do give a 5% discount for multiple pets, and 5% for ordering online.
-
Sounds like I need to rethink things through! Confused now! :Crazy:
-
I am with Sainsbury's, but wouldn't recommend them for younger cats, as while it is £6,500 per condition, if you had a cat that developed a conditoni at a young age, once you have reached your £6500 you have to start paying, so I would recommend AXA for young cats, as it is £7000 per condition per year - per condition per year is best, and you want the highest amount you can.
-
When you say young up to what age do you mean?
I just did a few online quotes with Sainsburys and all 7 of my cats would bring my monthly payments all on Sainsburys to about the same as I pay now.
Sainsburys I will keep Bunty on as she is older and there are very few insurance companies I could find and the ones I did Sainsburys were the best but my other cats start at 2 years old and then Sylvester who is younger than Bunty is around 10 years old. All vary in possible age as all rescue cats.
-
Is Axa per condition per year, Desley? That's a phrase I seem to be hearing a lot of lately, and I don't know whether that's the way policies are going or whether people are misunderstanding the policy. Most per year policies pay out a max per year but that has to cover all conditions during that year - it's not that amount for each condition. I'm pretty sure my petplan polcies for Jaffa and Mosi are per year and not per condition per year. Would be interested to know if Axa (and maybe others) are going for per condition per year.
-
Blimey Ive gone dizzy :Crazy: from all this - complicated and confusing or what!
-
Just checked, and PetPlan (could have sworn the poster at the vets said per condition per year) and AXA are per year, so same as Sainsburys just an extra £500 per year. Would probably still recommend them for younger cats (under the age of 10-12), but I am still happy with Sainsbury's - although who Zi goes with will depend on who gives me the cheapest quote!! PetPlan are doing 10 months for teh price of 12 at the moment, and also a SuperCAt cover, which is unlimited per year - not sure how that works. So, still tricky, you could be unlucky enough to have cats with more than one health issue (it does happen, the last two years, I have had cats with multiple health issues (Pebbles had 3 in one year, as well as the 2 before she was insured, and Tiger had 2 in one year), in which case per condition could be more beneficial, although in younger cats, you would want per year, as it would get 'topped up at the end of the year.
-
While it's possible, I can't help feeling that you'd be very unlucky to have more than one condition in a year that costs thousands of pounds, so I'm not too worried about being per year and not per condition per year.
-
I have paid just over £1k per year for the past two years on vets bills, that was over more than one illness, both could have been more expensive though, we just opted not to do further tests. I just wouldnt like to be in that position, but at least with such a high amount per year, you have a good chance - it is the policies where you only have a couple of grand that you would struggle - the specialist Tiger went to charge £2k for an MRI, and you could have already paid a few hundred at your own vets (2 x-rays at my vets is around £100, and you will have had at least one consult before that, at anywhere between £13 and £20).
-
Hi All,
I'm new to the forum and this is my first post.
This thread has made interesting reading. I have my cat insured with Sainsburys which offers £6500 cover per illness, but that is for the life of the policy not per year. It sounded a lot at the time but she's only 16 months old so maybe I should consider a per condition per year policy when it comes up for renewal.
I did read reviews of various policies before going with Sainsburys and was shocked to hear some people with per condition per year cover that the insurance company refused to renew the year after the cat had been diagnosed with an ongoing condition that required long term treatment. Has anyone experienced this, or it's reverse of a company that kept paying out year after year with no question? AXA seems to be recommended looking at your posts, but I would want to know they will definitely renew if kitty had a long term problem.
-
Insurance sadly is a minefield!! For young cats, I Would go with per year rather than per condition, although I have had no issues with Sainsbury's paying out, and I like the fact they cover prescription food (not sure if AXA do). Sadly none of mine have managed to live a year after being diagnosed with something, so not sure how long Sainsbury's do pay out for. They have sent renewals out regardless of whether they have paid out that year though, Tiger's was sent out accidentally, and was still under £14 despite the fact her claims the previous year were in the 4 figure mark (she was 14)
-
Hi Puffball
You are right this is a mine field and the answer about AXA is that I dont know for sure, although I am sure someone recently rang them and they said yes.
I feel now that you do not have any guarantee on any insurance that at renewal time they wont change the conditions, massively increase the price or do some other deceitful thing.
I know when I was with Sainsurys they paid out no problem but each of Kockas illnesses were different.
I think that AXA can be relied on because they underwrite so many of the other insurances but at the end of the day any insurance is a risk but right now I think they are giving the best cover for the price.
-
I did call Axa and they confirmed they cover for as long as you pay your premiums year on year. I haven't heard of an insurer refusing to renew before so can't comment on that - but surely they can't do that ?
I haven't had to claim with Axa so can't comment on anything else - all I know is when I was looking for insurance I got a major headache trying to work through all the different plans!!
-
I claimed £4k last year with Petplan and I was expecting a hike in my premiums - but they are virtually the same ;)
My policy with Petplan is per condition per year thankfully.
-
Petplan are expensive but I have had no problems when claiming from them.
-
I have just seen this thread. You have 3 choices -
1. Insure,
2. don't insure and do nothing hoping that you won't face a large bill or
3. set up a fund to pay for vet's bills.
You seem to be a responsible owner hence not contemplating No. 2.
!. Insure
Pros - Peace of mind knowing that you have annual cover up to a limit.
Peace of mind that you are unlikely to need to find extra cash unless that annual limit is breached which is rare and I personally have not encountered that situation.
Cons - Price;
not understanding that if you change insurers they will probably exclude pre existing or past conditions which will inevitably cost you money;
Not realising that you need to choose a reputable insurer who will cover conditions for life and not simply the cheapest
2. Do nothing
I don't ever believe this is an option as it is irresponsible ownership.
3. Self fund
Pros - You don't need to pay premiums or
have excess deductions or
cover limitations or exclusions.
Cons - How do you work out an annual amount to save?
What type of medical conditions should you base it on?
Do you carry any surplus forward to the next year or do you spend it seeing it as a financial bonus?
Are you disciplined enough not to raid that fund to deal with other unrelated financial matters?
Self funding is possible if you are a strong character who will never raid the fund for anything unrelated to the cat's welfare. In my experience few achieve that for domestic issues and more often than not don't provide sufficient money. To work out an annual amount you should work out worst case scenario looking at the most expensive treatment or operation cost. Assuming it is only one main condition per year, that is what you should satart your fund with but you alos need to look at possible number of different conditions. I would consult Your veterinary surgeon, one of the national cat charities like CP or the RCVS to provide some typical costs.
I believe that the average person should look to insurance. In saying that my view is simple - the cat's welfare comes first. Few would deny their own medical welfare so that should also be part of the responsibility of having animals. Unfortunately pets don't have the benefit of the NHS. Veterinary costs are rising for a number of reasons. One often overlooked reason is the costof new improving diagnostic equipment which can eliminate a lot of guess work. Just like MRI and Cat Scanners in the NHS this equipment costs serious money and, if you will pardon the pun, has to be clawed back.
Self funding is a valid concept but requires tremendous discipline. Big business achieves this in commerce by setting aside funds and having rainy day lines of credit with the banks. They are also invariably responsible to shareholders and financial service institutions regulating their work which focuses minds on sensible practices. Whilst that is irrelevant to an individual, the self imposed disciplines should be adopted if a self funding scheme has any chance of working. If it doesn't work, it is your cat that suffers.
I hope that answers your question.
-
When I brought Willow home (my first cat) I figured what could go wrong? She was only a kitten and health problems happen to older cats! Ermm.... not so, poor wee baby had Uveitis twice within 3 months which cost about £250. After this I looked into insurance though any recurrance of that problem is of course excluded.
After finding that a decent level of cover would cost about £15 a month I seriously considered putting that into a savings plan instead thinking it would be sure to save me money in the long term, and I am fortunate enough to have credit to cover any extreme vet bills. But to be honest it's a fools choice and my cat deserves better, one serious illness/accident would wipe out years worth of savings. The annual cost of insurance looks a lot but I prefer to think of it as 50p a day which I would not hesitate to spend on a newspaper or bar of chocolate! Seems a small price to pay knowing that if the worst happens I can say to the vet just do what's necessary!
Hmmm... Healthyfood?!!! the forum won't let me type c h o c o l a te :rofl:
-
I had one dog and three cats, none of whom were insured because when I got them insurance wasn't a big thing and I never even thought about it. Things were fine until my dog reached the age of 12 when she then developed a massive heart murmur and arthritis. Her medication cost me £120 a month for many years. Then with Dragan his vet bills the last three years of his life were astronomical (the last 3 months alone came to over £1500). This meant that for six years altogether I was paying huge vets bills. Luckily I was in a position to be able to afford them but I don't know what I would have done if I couldn't. Charlie is now insured but I am hoping I wont need to use it
-
When I brought Willow home (my first cat) I figured what could go wrong? She was only a kitten and health problems happen to older cats! Ermm.... not so, poor wee baby had Uveitis twice within 3 months which cost about £250. After this I looked into insurance though any recurrance of that problem is of course excluded
I made that mistake with simon, i was looking into insurance but took too long. He developed mouth problems that i now pay for, luckily i can budget.
Hmmm... Healthyfood?!!! the forum won't let me type c h o c o l a te :rofl:
:evillaugh: ch.ocolate is a banned word :rofl:
MM, thats a huge bill for 3 months!
-
I too have fallen foul of not insuring cats, and I have a knack of finding cats with health issues, so I have always had high vets bills, although the two years since insurance has been worse, as vet is more willing to suggest things knowing that I have a safety net to pay for them (not that it would stop me if I didn't, but persuading the vet is a differnt matter!!). Zi is goign to be insured from this month, even though I haven't officially adopted her, just in case (She is 17)
-
Hells bells what have I missed Desley, who is Zi?
-
Its been a while now Gill :rofl:
-
Zia's the 17yo tortie Gill - I would much rather keep Rolo, but I can't. So am having to adopt a tortie!!
-
I think I am having some memory probs at moment, tortie sound familiar but not Zia ...........sigh
maybe I just dont remember anything!
is zia in pics on another thread somewhere?
-
Poor you Gill - she is on here somewhere. She came at the beginning of OCtober, just after I came back off my hol
-
Oh dear right , well I dont remember her then sorry.
-
This is my favourite pic of her - and this is the cat that reminds me of Pebbles. What is really weird is that when my friend who I got Pebbles off comes round, Zi is straight down and making a fuss of her - she doesn't do it with anyone else!!
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Thats a nice pic :Luv:
-
What an adorable pic! :Luv: :Luv:
-
How cute is that pic Des?
-
i love that picture ;D
-
I like that pic too - you wouldnt guess she is going to be 18 this year, would you? I am going to class the date she came into rescue as her birthday, I should find it out tomorrow.