Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat Rescue & Rehoming => Rescue & Rehoming General => Topic started by: Mark on January 03, 2008, 13:23:38 PM
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A local un-named vet called today (not one we use) They said one of their clients bought their cat in 4 weeks ago with an injured paw which they have stitched but the customer hasn't got the money to pay the £200 bill and would we pay it? :Crazy: - I explained that we are a charity with very little money and we struggle to pay vet bills for stray cats so don't have money to pay people bills for them. She said "We tried pet aid and they don't want to know either" >:( - I said it's not a case of not wanting to know, we just don't have money to pay people's private bills. I said surely your bill is increasing all the time you keep it? - wouldn't it be better to give him the cat and arrange a payment schedule with him? - she said "No - the bill isn't increasing but the vet won't give it back until the bill is paid in full - even if he paid us £20 a week, that would be another 10 weeks before he could have the cat back" - I said he must have known he couldn't afford it so should have gone to the PDSA first or spoken to you about it. I have phoned an animal grant charity Sharon told me about but waiting for them to call back. It says they only have £1000 a month in total to give out so not looking hopeful.
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Can't you pay it and have the cat?
Mabe we could donate to ward him/her
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Seems a little perverse of the vet. After all, while the cat is there it is costing him money and if the owner is willing to establish a payment programme then they are relieved of the aggravation feeding and cleaning up after the cat, and the owner gets their cat back. Strange attitude - may be there is more to the story and the vet has a good reason for not agreeing to a payment plan (owner a flight risk etc). Still, I was under the impression that if an owner was unable to afford treatment a vet took possession of the animal and relinquished it into care when all else failed
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I'm not sure how a vet can charge £200 for a stitched paw, robbing :censored: :sneaky: Has the owner contacted the RSPCA? It might be an idea the owner writing to the local branch and seeing if they can help towards some of the payment. They obviously cared about the cat to take it to the vets in the first place. I hope the cat manages to go back home again.
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You took the words out of my mouth, Dawn.
£200 for a stitched paw??? :shify: :censored: :censored: It's not much more than that for a leg amputation. :tired:
All sounds a bit fishy to me, Mark. :sneaky:
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The RSPCA won't pay :Crazy:
They will only pay £50 towards an RTA so certainly won't settle vet bills. They have to think of their millions of pounds they have in the bank. They only like to spend it on propaganda :-:
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You took the words out of my mouth, Dawn.
£200 for a stitched paw??? :shify: :censored: :censored: It's not much more than that for a leg amputation. :tired:
All sounds a bit fishy to me, Mark. :sneaky:
Julie,
I have an idea. I will PM you their number. Maybe you can winkle more info out of them? - the thing Sharon asked is what will happen to the cat if the vet doesn't get their money? :scared: - as you said, it all looks a bit fishy.
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Mark, I'm talking about the local branch of the RSPCA not the HQ. I know we do sometimes pay towards vet bills but it would have to be put in writing and would definitely be worth a try.
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Hopefully, Julie will call this time and she can ask them. Basically, if he isn't paying and signs the cat over to us, he won't get it back as he is unable to care for it properly.
It's a shame the RSPCA don't offer loans that can be collected from wages or benefits if they are so almighty :tired:
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A lot of people don't just have £200 lying around and that price is extortionate for a cut paw.
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Mark, it isn't that easy to take money out of benefits.
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This is where I think life is cruel, we don't know the situation the owner is in and I think it's unforgiveable what the vet is doing. Personally I would begrudge spending that amount on a cut paw and I would let the vet know but a lot of vets are crafty and won't actually give you a price when you go in. One of my vets gives you a set price on any op and that is all you pay and this includes follow ups, my usual vet doesn't do this and you end up paying more so it might be an idea to get the full picture before judging this person as being unfit to look after their pet. You may be right Mark, and they may not deserve to be looking after an animal but this owner may also love this cat to bits, I hope it's the latter.
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As you say there is more to this than meets the eye. Most vets do agree payments. They may have done more than stitch a paw. They may have had trouble getting paid in the past. It could be many things. I was surprised that a vet could think a CP branch would just hand over money to settle a bill though.
Our vet quoted less than that for a full exploratory including bloods and anesthesia on Alice :Crazy:
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I just realised who this vet is
It's the PAH vet >:(
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It's the PAH vet >:(
As in Pets at Home or have I gone suddenly stupid :Crazy:
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Yep, some Pets at Home stores have vets, the Oldham one does. Not sure how good they are, and I certainly wouldnt think of going there for a vet!!
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ah, first cause the problem, the expect someone else to clean up the mess I guess!!
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In that case I would contact Pets at Home HQ and find out what is going on, find out whether they can in fact hold an animal for that length of time and how they can justify a £200 vet bill.
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PB is going to phone them to find out what's going on. It's our local branch where I overheard them talking about guinea pigs as "stock"
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In that case I would contact Pets at Home HQ and find out what is going on, find out whether they can in fact hold an animal for that length of time and how they can justify a £200 vet bill.
I know PAH will say it's nothing to do with them and it's a separate business that rents space from them.
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It all sounds very naughty and I really hope this poor cat gets sorted out. I would think if they have the vets on their premises, they do have to be answerable to a degree :sneaky: Good luck anyway Mark and let us know how you get on :hug:
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PB has spoken to them and is typing a message on here so everyone can see what the outcome was (I don't know yet :-: )
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Okay, here's the skinny as far as I've gleaned. :sneaky:
This poor puss has been stuck there since 14th Dec. His bill comprises a long acting antibiotic and a drain among other things. Sounds as if it was left for too long before taking in for treatment if you ask me. The owner is on benefits and has been dancing around the issue of paying as he just can't afford the bill. He does claim to want the cat back BUT the owner hasn't been to visit puss for 2 weeks. :'( :censored:
It seems to be a case of them ringing round everyone trying to get someone to take responsibility for this cat. The vet has had enough as they are boarding this cat for nothing. The threat of not allowing the cat back to the owner is more of a bluff, I feel.
I have said we will gladly take responsibility if the owner wishes to rehome, but the bill is another matter. The nurse gave a strong hint that if we took this pud into our care, the bill wouldn't be coming out way. They do take our point about us being a charity and we cannot pay private bills.
After the vet forced the issue today, the owner is due to visit the cat tomorrow and discuss things with the vet. But if he goes for the rehoming option the nurse will call us back.
So I wouldn't say the vet is being a villian here, but he's obviously had enough and needs to get paid. I think we need to hope the owner signs over as puss isn't being well care for in my view. :(
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The sad thing in all this, if the guy is on Benefits, he would have been entitled to go on the PDSA scheme but would have had to have registered before the injury. What a mess and if he's not been to see the cat in 2 weeks, is he that bothered at getting her back >:( Let us know the outcome, I hope whatever it is, it's going to be the best one for the cat :hug:
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Sorry but in that position, I would have been in every day and made every effort to pay even some of the bill. I know we don't know all the circumstances but 2 weeks between visits doesn't strike me as a loving owner.
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I knew about this form Mark, but personally anyone who has a cat for 4 wks at the vets and dosnt see it.. Do they care..
PB pls let us know tomorrow about this puss as poor mite must be getting cramp by now in a cage for a month..
I hope they sign him over.. Any idea how he got the injury, age or name..?
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When I was talking to our HQ last year over Tom, I was told that if someoen doesn't provide food, litter and shelter for a cat for two weeks, they are legally no longer the owners, so dont know if you could use that to get them to sign him over.
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I would think in law Des that that would have had to have been spelled out to them at the time of the cat going in, because officially the cat was in the vets care and she wasn't just abandoned. And in theory, that could be said of a lost cat in a rescues care if an owner came forward after a couple of weeks.
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Well, I never try to judge things as we never know all the facts, but if the nurse is being truthful this owner has been given enough rope. :tired: She told me the vet offered that if he paid once a week towards clearing the bill they would have given puss back by now - that was 2 weeks back when they last saw him and he still hasn't given anything. And she did say (off the record!!) the bill for the owner would have been drastically reduced had he shown genuine concern for the cat and financial distress.
Sharon, I've no details on the cat at all. I will call again tomorrow lunchtime to see what else we can do. But she has called ALL the rescues so perhaps this one may be picked up by someone else first. Nonetheless, I said we'd accept puss into our care. ;)
But it has made me think that cats with owners and homes don't always have a nice Xmas. Poor soul! :(
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I knew about this form Mark, but personally anyone who has a cat for 4 wks at the vets and dosnt see it.. Do they care..
PB pls let us know tomorrow about this puss as poor mite must be getting cramp by now in a cage for a month..
I hope they sign him over.. Any idea how he got the injury, age or name..?
I'm quite happy to go and collect him if need be - I am planning a PAH trip so will be right there.
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Sorry but in that position, I would have been in every day and made every effort to pay even some of the bill. I know we don't know all the circumstances but 2 weeks between visits doesn't strike me as a loving owner.
I'm being devils' advocate here Mark, but if you are that broke, then you are that broke. It is sometime just not possible for a person to scrape together two pennies with which to bless themselves. When you are in that position, and being dunned by creditors and constantly being reminded of all the things you should/could do if you had the funds, then a daily dose of 'where's my money' is a high price to pay for daily visits to a cat you know is being well-cared for. I have been in that position and know how it feels so would not judge this person too quickly.
On the other hand they may just be an irresponsible sod who prefers to spend their cash on Christmas booze - until you know their situation, it does not seem reasonable to be on your high horse about them... any more than it was appropriate to be on the high horse with the vet surgery for phoning round ...
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Poor babe, at least tomorrow sounds like all her traumas will be over either way, lets hope so anyway :hug:
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Oh, yes, BC, I've been there too - last summer in fact... and probably will be again I have no doubt. :tired: But next to getting food on the table for the children, is putting food in the Jumpster's bowl. There is no way in hell he will be banged up in a vet's cage for weeks without a visit from me, bill or no bill. :Luv: And if I had to face the fact I couldn't pay for him, it would have been after I'd called everyone in sight begging for help. It wouldn't have been left to the vet nurse. I would then accept it like an adult that the Jumpster's needs are beyond my capacities and the greatest thing I could do for him is make sure he goes to live with someone who'll love him every bit as much as he deserves. :'(
So always being one to think the best of people, I'm assuming this puss's owner can't use a telephone and has no friend's/relatives/neighbours prepared to call for him, can't walk to get to visit his cat and will certainly be asking an independent witness to watch him put an 'X' on the rehoming form as he can't write either. ;)
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alternately he may have sunk into such a deep depression about his failure to care for his most loved pet that he is presently sitting at home paralysed with that depression (which clearly you have never suffered from) and be contemplating suicide - it happens
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I can see where you're coming from BC, I've been wondering the same thing. He obviously cared enough to take the cat in and only he knows why he didn't get to visit or couldn't afford his vet bill. I think sometimes we judge too quickly, he may not be the ideal owner but it doesn't mean to say he doesn't love his cat and he may be broken hearted over the whole episode. Lets just hope this has a good outcome for all concerned :hug:
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its hard to say, my mum had an elderly neighbour who had a much loved dog but it was very old and ill and she was so ashamed of how bad it had got she felt she couldn't take it to the vet because she was afraid of getting into trouble - it sounds mad to us but it made sense to her
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I sorted a Llaso Apso out for someone a couple of years ago, that was the same thing.......the dog was so matted and had excrement matted into his fur, he was living outside with no proper shelter but the owner was too embarrassed to do anything about it. I got the dog sorted and the dog is now living with the guys mum being well cared for and loved and I get regular updates about him off both the son and the mum. We don't know what goes on in peoples lives and sometimes a little compassion goes a long way instead of always assuming the worse. As already said, this guy may be a crap owner but he may also be the opposite.
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Julie spoke to the vet today. They have spoken to the customer who has refused to sign the cat over. We are going to suggest a fostering arrangement as we don't know what to do next. Obviously the cat's welfare is the only thing we are concerned about. The VN told Julie that they take him out of the cage every now and then for a play but it must be awful. Vet's cages aren't much bigger than a carrier :(
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Poor baby :'( Is there any way the vet would give the customer Julie's number and maybe she could have a chat with him? At least this way she can suss out the situation without it coming via 3rd party.
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It sounds like the vet and the customer are stalemate and we are just in the middle. Just waiting to hear what Sharon & Gillian want to do then Julie will phone the vet again. Julie said there are so many staff there that it's difficult to get the same person twice. One of us may pay them a visit early next week :(
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I think it would be better dealing directly with the owner if that's the situation at the vets. I hope and pray that a solution is sorted for the cats sake :hug:
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What a horrible mess and well done for trying to help.
I still feel after reading this for the first time that there is a bit of the story missing. The owner doesnt visit but will not sign the cat over, took the cat for traetment and got stung with a £200 bill.
I know that I have been ill for a week now going out today for first time in the car whicxh is parked outside my door and I shouldnt have cos just wasnt well enoughmand couldnt have gone out anytime this week. If the ownere ill and on benefits, may not have a car, cannt afford transprt, is agrieved about the bill, sees the cat as a barginning point............as dawn says who knows what the situation is.
Suspect PAH vet cannot give out details of the owner cos of Data Protection but am sure that all vets must have been in this position before.
As the vets are in contact with the owner, maybe a way round this is for them to tell owner that they cannot board this cat any more cos it is getting unwell being in a cage all the time and therefore unless an arrangement, say post dated checks, is made then they will be forced to put the cat into a foster home ie yourgoodselves in canterbury, and the owner should permit the fosters to contact him.
Dont know if any of that sounds resonable or would work but it may allow you then to be at least able to talk to the owner and get the otherside of the story. Could be owner has been threatened by PAH with legal action over unpaid bill and is scared to visit cat, or they have said he is not allowed to visit cat?
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I would definitely be trying to get both sides of the story before I acted, and Gill, that is a good idea regarding contact ...
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i am going to call CP Legal dept to get some advice on this one...
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Due to DPA i doubt the owners details will be given out to us..
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They can be given out if the owner agrees
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Reading between the lines, I think the VN's are telling you only half a story. If the owner didn't care, he wouldn't have took the cat in and he would just sign her over. I really think this needs to checked out properly because in my eyes, people are always complaining about a certain rescue barging in and removing animals without any proper evidence, and I'm sorry but I think this seems the same sort of thing. Okay, he's not been to visit but we don't know why and as mentioned by Gill, he could be scared if they've been threatening all sorts, we just don't know what's going on and are assuming.
The fostering idea is a good one and you could work it that once he's paid, the cat is returned but if he can't afford the bill, what happens then? I would mention to them about him contacting his local RSPCA to help, I know I've said this before but chances are they will help in this situation, our branch has done this numerous times for people on Benefits who have been stung by a large bill.
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Absolutely nothing we can do unless the owner signs the cat over or the vets thinks its neglet and cruetly and then the RSPCA can sign it over..
If the cat has finished treatment then the vets have no right to keep the cat anyhows.....
Perhaps the vets should send a letter of debt to the owner with a date of action and if that isnt followed then the cat is considered abandoned.
Did i miss the point, why want the vets agree to installments for this bill anyhows.....?
Wish we could get both sides of this story, but until we do or something happens then we are stuck.. One thing, we cannot pay the bill if the cat is returned to the owner, a recipe for disaster for the future.
Makes me wonder why they didnt refer to PDSA anyhows in the first place. Barton is very near PAH in Canterbury and is a PDSA vet
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or maybe they could return the cat and sue the owner for payment and go through the proper channels like everybody else does.
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If the vets agreed to a payment scheme with the owner then the owner could have the cat back.................if it was my post you are referring to I think it was explained quite well.
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Sorry Gill, I read it wrong :tired:
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from another forum on a post about Vets Now (Yes 'm doing a bit more - my petition has found another 40+ sigs in the last 3 days (can't think why lol))
"yet they STILL charge existing clients £100 just to walk through the door, and were full of all kinds of nasty threats like 'if you cant find it then we wont treat your pet at all' and 'if you dont pay up tomorrow when you come to pick your pet up, we will keep her and charge you for kennelling until you do'....both of these things are actually illegal, so i moved! "
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I gather from speaking with the nurse today, that the owner was offered a payment schedule and so far hasn't honoured it. Don't know the reasons why. It's a straightforward case of brinkmanship and neither side seems capable of backing down. We were only contacted on the hope we could pay the bill, which of course we can't, but now we've said no PAH don't seem to working to resolve this is another way. As was said previously, they do get puss out for a play and a bit of exercise once in a while but this is a million miles short of adequate care, IMO.
The situation is compounded by the fact that PAH can't contact the owner as his phone is unobtainable, so they have to wait til he makes contact, which might be tomorrow or never... But the nurse is fairly sure he will not sign puss over, even though the option hasn't been fully discussed with him. So it may be a case of going along the animal abandonment route and this would mean RSPCA involvement.
I was also a little concerned that the nurse I spoke to today hadn't thought about the psycological and physical impact of keeping puss in a vet cage for this long. She says she thinks puss will probably be there for at least another couple of weeks even if the owner does start paying now.
We're thinking on the situation over the weekend, but probably the next move will be for our Coordinator to speak to the vet involved personally. We would like to at least make sure the rehoming option is put to the owner and he's aware we're here wanting the best for his cat.
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I am sure that PAH vet has not been in this situation before and they must have procedures to cover this.
I think you are right brinkmanship is involved and the poor cat is suffereing as a result, they sound pretty incompentent to me as they must have the address of the owner.
I seem to recall that a certain cat whose name I forget was rehomed very quickly by RSPCA in Hillingdon and the owners had to fight to get him ]back but in another case the owners where not successful but certainly RSPCA seem they have the right to rehome in two weeks or less, mind you I expect they do at the time know who the owner is.
Why cant someone from PAH go round to this guys house and deliver a letter saying that the cat will be put into fostercare.
I can understand why I see this :pressie: :brick: so often in some posts concerning people and their cats .............sigh
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cant we all club in and help this poor little cat and let P.B hold it till its sorted, i am willing to help for the poor little Babes sake.
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Ron I am sure there is a way to do this if Sharon and crew could find away to get there paws on the cat but at present the vets will not let it go to them cos they say the owner would not allow it.
If you have any ideas how the cat can be resued from the vets and possibly its owner , or even for a while till it can go home, we would love to hear.
The whole blooming thing seems to be at am impasse and the cat is suffering as a result.
It seems that the vets just want to get their greedy hands on loads of money and I bet would suddenly allow the cat to go to anyone if they got loads of dosh.
Basically it seems to me that the cat is being held to ransome!
Just wondered Pink, what the vets would say if someone offered to pay the bill..........would they release the cat to the ones who paid, or suddenly be able to contact the owner or what :shify: :shify:
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Hi Gill, if the bill was paid could it not be fostered until things were sorted with the owner the only one suffering is the poor little cat there must be some way round it and then the greedy vet would get his money people make me sick letting a poor little cat suffer for there greediness.
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I am sure the Canterbury crew will read this all tomorrow Ron and any news will be posted. thanks ;D
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I'm sure we won't leave this drop until the cat is sorted one way or another. Sharon is like a rottie with a bone on issues like this. :evillaugh: We just have to wait a few days to do things properly.
But if worse comes to worse, I'm taking names for a jail break crew... :boxer: :car: :ahh:
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Okay i am going to talk to our co ordinator today who hopefully can give them a call and speak to the vet and not a nurse.. We however, just cannot pay the bill, when we first started this branch we were niave and helped out occassionally but it brought so many problems to us that its our policy not to do that again.. The fosterering idea is good although we still need the permission of the owner... Even then where do we go from there, without permission to rehome we are little better off.
The only solution it to explain about the rehoming route, or put pressure on PAH to decide on what they intend to do or say in the next few weeks if the cat is not claimed or any bills paid...
Will let you know if we get anywhere, but i wondered if PAH have sent a letter to the owner there must be an address if not a tel number...
Although i sympathise with the owner i do think reading through the lines that he has been given ample opportunity to contribute towards the bill payment PAH. But i stil think its illegal of them to keep the cat in if its not receiving any form of vet care now just because of this... So there must be a few other issues we are not aware of...
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This is such a difficult one. If only it was as simple as doing a whip-round to raise £200, what happens the next time the cat needs any treatment? - will that person be back asking for it to be paid for them again - or worse, will they just deny the poor cat any vet treatment? - I thought most people were aware of PDSA for genuine cases.
The vet must realise this needs to be resolved as they can't keep the cat like that indefinitely.
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Our co ordinator rang up today.. They contacted the owner who promptly put the phone down on them. They are putting debt letters in the post in the next few days, but they go through a system of three warnings first. This can take weeks if not months.
At the moment our only resourse is that the vets know we are able to take this cat on should things change...
She is a black puss, 2yrs old, well cared for in the past, spayed etc...No name..
Not as we hoped but legally our hands our tied.
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What a sad situation for the poor puss, I do hope there is a good outcome to this.
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I have a feeling this is not going to end pleasantly. :tired:
Poor cat!! :'(
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I really worry about this poor wee puss - I used to worry about my wee man being couped up for a day when he was in for treatment! This poor kitty is being left all the time - and no doubt overnight!! Oh dear! :tired:
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Afraid I agree with you PB and I cant believe that the cat is being made to suffer due to an arguement between the owner and this vet.
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I know we generally hate the RSPCA but in this case they would have the power to sieze the cat. If they serve notice to the owner by visiting him and he doesnt respond within x amount of days they can take the cat and sign him over to CP....
I think contacting them is the only way forward or the poor cat is gonna be caged for ages :(
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As the cat is being cared for by the vets, I am not sure that the RSPCA , even them!, have the pwoer to do this unless the vets ask them to.
The question also would be , would they sign the cat over to CP.
This is such a stupid mess and wish we knew the reason why the owner is being so uncoperative with Cp who are trying to help.
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She has as good as been abandoned (carpark or vets, not much difference!) and if hes slamming down the phone it would be worth contacting them for advice.
Im sure they would be pleased to get shot of a black cat to CP >:(
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I was in PAH today and realised I hadn't heard an update. Called Sharon and she said the latest was they were writing to him last weekend. I said I will ask the vets. She said he came in this morning and paid most of the money so they gave him the cat ;D
The VN said he was a lovely cat and she would have kept him herself if she didn't have her own cats :Luv2:
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Great news - Glad commonsense finally prevailed on all sides ... ;D
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Wow so pleased , thanks for updating us ;D
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What a relief. I was wondering what was happening and couldn't get the poor cat out of my mind.
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Glad there was a happy ending to this.
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Fab news :Luv:
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That's fantastic news, so glad it was a positive outcome!
Hopefully now the owner will get himself a proper vet (not a superstore Vet) and some insurance!
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Great outcome