Are cats social animals?

[Janeyk]

In my experience feral cats are much more sociable towards oneanother than domestic, we've only had 2 who have been very close. I think it depends on the cats though.   

We adopted our first two cats from kittens, Penny, then Squeaky a year later, I would say they tolerated oneanother or rather Penny tolerated Squeaky.  We have trapped lots of ferals a couple we rehomed the rest have stayed semi-feral and live outside.  I have seen Squeaky play with them on occasion outside so I would say he would have like a pal, Penny no way. 

When both cats had left us we then adopted 2 oldies Smokey and Timmy who had lived together (with 5 others who had all found homes) and had to be rehomed together, they were very close.  So when we lost Timmy we adopted Schui but although Smokey wanted to be pally Schui was not that bothered, he wasn't nasty but just indifferent.  We now have Schui and Byron and they just sort of live alongside oneanother.

Regarding the ferals, they tend to be in twos, Rudolph and Smudge, Black Chin and White Chin, Zippy and Doodar, Frosty and Perdy, Pebbles and Pixie 2 are more loners and Little Blackie latches on to any.  The ambassador who looks after all the ferals was an ex-feral and my next door adopted him when she moved in and he sort of looks after them all and takes them into next doors, he's never forgotten his roots so to speak.  (He had a best pal - feral cat Pebbles but he was recently pts as he had a bad leg which wouldn't heal  )

[Bonkers Mad!!!]

However, every time her original owner came to see us she was desperate to sit on his lap and have a cuddle, even after she had been with us 8 years!

awww how sad 

[moiramassey]

Teddy is so much a lap cat that she sometimes gets on your nerves.  you only have to sit (or stand) still for more than 30 seconds and she's there.

My Willow (RIP) was like Teddy. We called her Velcro Cat!

Willow had been very close to her owner as a kitten and as a young cat, but then he rehomed a dog that couldn't be trusted not to kill any smaller furry thing, so she spent more and more time outside until she spent most of her time under his car and only came in to eat (when the dog was locked up). He asked me to take her and she was pathetically grateful, becoming our Velcro Cat. However, every time her original owner came to see us she was desperate to sit on his lap and have a cuddle, even after she had been with us 8 years!

[Bonkers Mad!!!]

I like to have cats that like me and its nice to have a lapcat but out of 4 I have only one lapcat and although obviously I am the source of food for all of them, I think they all care about me in their own little way

 

same here except for Shenzy, she doesnt like anybody except Fat Andy.  out of 13 only 3 are real lap cats.  Teddy is so much a lap cat that she sometimes gets on your nerves.  you only have to sit (or stand) still for more than 30 seconds and she's there.  if you're standing she just launches herself at you and you have to catch her because she never gets her claws out.  if you dont catch her she just drops.  it's a pain when you're trying to pull your jeans up after having a wee  .  the rest of them tend to give me 5 minutes each of their time in the evening, usually on their way to bed they'll come and have a quick cuddle.  it's quick but quality time 

I have always done it the same as you (and been told I am wrong) but it has always worked for me too.
I have 11 cats at the moment and each time have just let them get on with it.

must be a "Michelle" thing 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I agree there is no right and wrong but do think that cats are individual creatures and socializing is on their terms only and not the norm in their history.

I like to have cats that like me and its nice to have a lapcat but out of 4 I have only one lapcat and although obviously I am the source of food for all of them, I think they all care about me in their own little way 

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

from what i've read on this forum i pretty much do everything wrong as far as integrating new comers.  i never confine a new kitten/s to a single room nor do i seperate older cats that come to live here.  all newbies are pretty much thrown in at the deep end and left to get on with it.  older cats usually take themselves off some where quiet to stay out of the way of the long term residents.  kittens are usually introduced to fat Andy and Teddy as they will generally take a baby under their wing (so to speak).  i tend to feed older newcomers seperately for the first few days but kittens are expected to eat with the rest.  i've never had a cat that didnt find a niche for itself within a few days and have never had a situation that was so bad that the noob had to be rehomed.  my cats might not necessarily all get on (although most do) but they do manage to live together without any problems.  i suppose i've just been lucky.

You dont do it the wrong way....there is no "right" way !!

I have always done it the same as you (and been told I am wrong) but it has always worked for me too.
I have 11 cats at the moment and each time have just let them get on with it.

[moiramassey]

I agree that comparing the domestic cat to wild cats of other species is interesting but not necessarily relevant.

I understand from scientific studies of feral cat colonies that domestic cats rarely socialise. The exceptions are kittens in a litter, mother cat with kittens and, occasionally, an adolescent female cat from a previous litter stays with the mother and assists with the care of the next litter.

I always thought that the relationship between us and our cats depended on us keying into these occasions when group living was normal for a cat. By providing food, warmth and grooming them (stroking and brushing them) we persuade them into a protracted kittenhood. If this happens, then it is easier for them to live in groups.

Also, occasionally, an adult female cat shows kitten-caring behaviour towards us, for example when she brings us prey.

Perhaps the ability to adapt to living socially has been selected for? This could be deliberate selection from breeders, or inadvertant selection (cats who could tolerate other cats and humans were given more food [directly or by there being more mice etc] and therefore bred more). Certainly my half-Siamese is extremely people orientated and gives the other cats in the household very little 'personal space'.

In my opinion, cats who are treating their humans as surrogate mothers can cope with living with other cats, because, at least in a small way, they see the other cats as littermates. In contrast, cats who see their humans as their kittens (I have one of these, who has adopted my OH as her kitten) are less tolerant of other cats.

Personally, I do not want a 'I am behaving exactly as I would in the wild' cat as a pet. I can't see the point of it. I want a two way relationship with my cats, not just to be treated as a easy source of food!

I really do not care that I have three of my four cats trapped in permanent kittenhood. I am sure that I am equally warped because as a member of the species human my 'pack' should be of humans and instead it is made up of one other human and four cats!

[2d]

I don't think that you can say they are or they aren't.

I also don't think that you can relate wild cat species to domestic cats (excluding ferals).

Our cats are most definitely social (and don't forget - they see their owners as part of their social grouping).

George and Edward (siblings) were particularly close.  They used to play together, sleep together - often curled up together, but if not, whoever was the last to go to sleep would go and find the other, and sleep in the same room.  They had to be together to be happy.

Now Ed's gone, George is upset - he's getting used to him not being here most of the time - but before he goes to sleep, he still wanders round looking for Edward.  He also saw the vet wrap Ed up (his body) after he'd been PTS, and take him out the front door, so he sits near the front door, waiting for him to come back.

Magnus (not related to the others, and introduced about 18 months ago), was solitary at first (he was a stray), but now is definitely social.  He meows when he comes home till he knows where everybody is (human or cat).  And he frequently used to curl up with one of the others (or both) to sleep.  Being that he was closer to Ed than George, he too keeps looking for Edward to curl up with and go to sleep, although he also saw the body.

George has now taken to sleeping in Ed's bed.  Or in ours.  And although George and Mags don't always sleep together at the moment, they do always have to know where the other is before they go to sleep.

Magnus also has 'friends' outside.  A couple of neighbours' cats - I've seen them playing together in our back garden (they're all boys).

Conversely, our bridge boy, Vlad, hated any other cats, and instantly kicked the backside of any that came within five feet of his territory (and dogs as well for that matter...).


In other words, I don't think you can say either way till you know the cat.  Domestication means that they're not living in a natural environment anyway (not having to hunt for food, not having to find their own shelter, or generally fend for themselves) -  means that other factors come into play.  You can't expect them to behave as they would in the wild.


It's really all down to the cat - every cat is different - some will love companionship of another cat - others will be hostile - others will get stressed out and depressed.  And yet others will be completely indifferent and show no real response either way.

Since all cats have their own personalities and likes and dislikes, and temperaments, it's a bit daft really to assume they'll all behave / react the same way, or (given the whole situation of domestic cats is completely unnatural) the way that cats in the wild do.

[Bonkers Mad!!!]

from what i've read on this forum i pretty much do everything wrong as far as integrating new comers.  i never confine a new kitten/s to a single room nor do i seperate older cats that come to live here.  all newbies are pretty much thrown in at the deep end and left to get on with it.  older cats usually take themselves off some where quiet to stay out of the way of the long term residents.  kittens are usually introduced to fat Andy and Teddy as they will generally take a baby under their wing (so to speak).  i tend to feed older newcomers seperately for the first few days but kittens are expected to eat with the rest.  i've never had a cat that didnt find a niche for itself within a few days and have never had a situation that was so bad that the noob had to be rehomed.  my cats might not necessarily all get on (although most do) but they do manage to live together without any problems.  i suppose i've just been lucky.

[sixfurballs]

This is a topic I find fascinating. Having a multi-cat household, some of whom are siblings its an interesting topic.

My first two cats I got as unrelated kittens and got them within a couple of weeks of each other. They bonded very quickly and very well. When Tomsk was killed in an RTA when they were just over a year Bronte became very despondent. She would sit on his grave for hours at end and scratch at the wall and fence beside it and climb all over the area as if she were looking for him. It was very distressing to us.

It was some months before we got our next two cats - two brothers. Harry and Dino were again exceptionally close but Bronte hated them for months and took her ages to come round. When she did she adapt she took really well to Harry but never Dino.

We lost Harry some years later and 1 year after that we adopted Heidi and Huxley (brother and sister) and then another year on we adopted Lexie and Purdey (sisters). Heidi and Huxley are very close (as you can see from my signature pic) but Lexie and Purdey aren't. They hiss at each other fairly often, never cuddle or clean each other and never play together. They are however very friendly towards all the other cats (they groom, cuddle up and play) and were the easiest intros into the household I've ever done.

For years Bronte and Dino could barely be in the same room together. That slowly improved after we introduced Heidi and Huxley. Now they will share a sofa, never hiss at each other and Bronte and Heidi will curl up together but on Heidi's initiation. Bronte has even started playing with the others since Purdey and Lexie arrived. Bronte is almost 7 now. Dino is almost 6 and the others are coming up to 4.

So I'm really not sure what all of that says. I suspect Bronte imprinted and bonded like siblings with Tomsk but since losing him has been a solitary cat who just adapted to putting up with and then slowly befriending the others. Huxley and Dino (the two boys) are also more prone to doing their own thing and coming to the humans for cuddles. So likewise they are probably more solitary cats but who very readily accept the company of other cats. Heidi is a very clingy cat and is constantly seeking our attention or the attention of the other cats. She is certainly not solitary. She cuddles so readily with the others but almost always on her initiation and because she pushes them to it.

LOL - that was a long response 

[Bonkers Mad!!!]

i just don't invite people in any more.  cat people are welcome of course but everybody else is confined to the kitchen if they visit.  i don't offer them a seat and most don't stay long.  i'm not a people person 

btw blackcat, i'm so glad i'm not the only person who's named a cat Mouse, most people think i'm mad for having a cat called Mouse but then most people think i'm mad anyway 

[JackSpratt]

what really annoys me is when somebody shoo's one of the cats off of the settee so they can sit. 

My partners friend does that; he regularly earns himself a scowl for it. (He does do it nicely but that's not the point.) In all fairness though, his family have brought him up with a different view to cats - their two have access to the conservatory but are predominantly outdoor cats, whereas ours are members of our family sharing the house.

[blackcat]

Our old cat Mouse had a good cure for people like that. He would bite them - hard. They soon learned whose seat it was 

One person got terribly indignant about it all and thought we were all barking mad because we stood up for Mouse - he didn't come back any more ...

[Bonkers Mad!!!]

what really annoys me is when somebody shoo's one of the cats off of the settee so they can sit.  i wouldnt dream of going into somebodies house and shifting their grandad so i can park myself.  it's just plain rude 

[JackSpratt]

i agree, when i take a cat (or dog) on that animal becomes a member of the family, simple as that.  if visitors don't like that then they are shown the door.

That's what we're like. Love us, love the zoo!

[Bonkers Mad!!!]

i agree, when i take a cat (or dog) on that animal becomes a member of the family, simple as that.  if visitors don't like that then they are shown the door.

[blackcat]

what's the point of owning a cat if you don't let it snuggle?

[ratscallions]

Yeah exactly.

Their whole famliy has a really weird attitude to animals. I'm not allowed to mention it though. They gave me a rabbit for my birthday one year to try and stop me keeping rats .. now they complain about the smell of the rats; what they can smell is rabbit pee!!!!! (In a litter tray I hasten to add).

*mutter* *mutter* *mutter*

[Millys Mum]

She certainly sounds better off with you  i dont see the point of having animals if they arent in the house being part of the family 

[ratscallions]

Living outdoors takes it toll on a cat, they use alot more energy keeping warm. The 2 strays i have camping in the shed have kennels, heatpads and an oil filled radiator but eat twice as much as my own housecats to maintain their bodyweight.

Has she been checked for diabetes?

Ooooooh I hadn't thought of that. She was an outdoor cat before living here, so obviously burned a lot of energy because of that. No, she's not been checked for diabetes; I'll ask the vet if he thinks she needs it next time I'm up there (tomorrow I think).

It made me sad today. Her previous owners came round to see her. She climbed up on the chair in order to sit on her previous Mummys lap, only to be picked up and placed on the floor. They never let her sit on their laps!!! Poor baby girl ... she's nearly always on someones lap here. Though she's upstairs on the bed at the moment I think. She wasn't allowed on beds before either.

[Millys Mum]

Glad  it helped. However am i am in the rehoming business when i do get calls about adopting a puss cat when they have another resident puss (for whatever reason but its usually that one sibling has died) i do give people a load of information about this. As although we want to see cats rehomed, we dont if its going to make an existing cat life not very happy. And sadly people adopt cats (abit unintentially) for the wrong reasons with little regard to how their existing cat will  react and cope. This is often the problem with older cats.. as people find they slow down and children dont no longer have a kitten to play with.. Hence why people always think that getting a kitten to live with an older cat is a good thing.. Personally I dont.. I think older cats deserve a quiet life and if you really want to adopt you should consider one of a similar age or temperament. However.. people dont listen and we still end up taking in kittens and young cats adopted (or brought) and third world war developsand they ring us to rehome..

I agree, how many people want a kitten to keep their elderly cat 'company' 

I was thinking that perhaps the company of her brother was what was keeping her active before he passed away. I didn't really know them then, but they may have played together, and I bet she roamed further afield when outside of the house.

Living outdoors takes it toll on a cat, they use alot more energy keeping warm. The 2 strays i have camping in the shed have kennels, heatpads and an oil filled radiator but eat twice as much as my own housecats to maintain their bodyweight.

Has she been checked for diabetes?

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

I think cats are more social than we sometimes give them credit for, but the social groups they form in the wild are often just a result of limited resources forcing them to share the same space.  They are solitary hunters and don't really have a social hierarchy in the way that many animals do (they don't really have an alpha cat and a rigid hierarchy like a pack of dogs).  But they can enjoy the company of another cat, and indoor cats often do benefit from having a feline companion.  They can play with another cat in a way that they can't play with a human (I love my boys but I am not going to start licking them  ), and for an indoor cat, a companion can provide the only opportunity to interact with another cat.   Some pedigree breeds do best when they have other cats to interact with (I have a Somali and they are very social cats who generally do well living in a household with other cats)

But having said that, cats that are raised together (eg siblings) tend to get on best, and it can be difficult to introduce a new cat to an older cat.  I don't think you should get your cat a friend unless you are convinced that a) she is lonely and b) she is a social cat who, generally, gets on with other cats.  Most people who have multi cat households have them because they like cats and can't stop at 1! or because they have taken in rescue cats that have somehow landed in their lap    Forcing cats to be social when they would prefer to be solitary can cause all sorts of problems. 

[Maddiesmum]

It's interesting you should post this thread.  When Sarah Heath the behaviourist visited us last week she was adamant that cats are solitary creatures.  She explained the way they would choose to live their life and it doesn't include a playmate.

[blackcat]

all animals grieve for a companion - I try to make sure that mine see the body before it goes elsewhere. That way they seem to understand better what has happened and are not so bereft and seeking their friend. Rats are social animals BTW, so will be more deeply bonded than cats ...

[ratscallions]

I know this is a complete tangent, but I've known rats to grieve for siblings. Whether they grieve the same way we do or not is another matter though.

[Canterbury_cats (Sharon)]

Glad  it helped. However am i am in the rehoming business when i do get calls about adopting a puss cat when they have another resident puss (for whatever reason but its usually that one sibling has died) i do give people a load of information about this. As although we want to see cats rehomed, we dont if its going to make an existing cat life not very happy. And sadly people adopt cats (abit unintentially) for the wrong reasons with little regard to how their existing cat will  react and cope. This is often the problem with older cats.. as people find they slow down and children dont no longer have a kitten to play with.. Hence why people always think that getting a kitten to live with an older cat is a good thing.. Personally I dont.. I think older cats deserve a quiet life and if you really want to adopt you should consider one of a similar age or temperament. However.. people dont listen and we still end up taking in kittens and young cats adopted (or brought) and third world war developsand they ring us to rehome..

I do get people to change their minds and it has been successful of making people "think" of the reasons and although abit harsh its hardly ever for the cat is more that they assume they are lonely or bored..... Can we assume a cat can get lonely or bored...? Umm thats another debate i suppose... But it is important to remember that we should put all human emotions onto animals.. We should show compassion and empathy but can we really scientifically details every human emotion in an animal.. Some i would say "yes" namely Apes, Elephants, Whales, Dolphins and a few higher mammals.. Its all very interesting debate and i just have one view on things and i am sure there are others. Thats not to say that animals do not suffer and cause suffering..Apes have been known to actually "murder" other apes and its well known that Lions (and other big cats) will kill another of their species (even the young)

 But maybe in a different way then we do..

Can you be bored or lonely if you have no value of "time"? Do you miss another sibling once it has died? Do animals grieve..? I do not actually know but there has been alot of science literature about such things and i dont think there is a clear answer..

Anyhow that's my pennysworth!

[ratscallions]

Yeah, that's pretty much along the lines of how I was thinking .. but I didn't want to assume I was right.

She is definitely a very happy cat. I wouldn't want to make her unhappy.

Thank you

[Canterbury_cats (Sharon)]

My opinion is that cats are solitary animals we just make them social.. if you look at their ancestory and even in todays wild cats big and small. Only Lions are social animals and thats really down to their pride structure and food.. Just about every other cat (big and small wild cats) detest being around others and in some cases will kill another rival. Tigers, leopards especially. Although Cheetahs just keep out of each others way. its a very interesting debate though, if you read Vicky Halls books and also do abit of research on behaviour then actually the ability of us to assume that cats are social animals brings all kinds of problems within rescue.. As its one of the main reasons (cats not getting along) cats are in rescue.. Saying that siblings can get along and do.. And thats the case in most wild cat populations as well.. However... its all to do with food. If there are two of you,  you can hunt bigger prey but you have to share it.. But the autism involved benefits both and so they put up with it.. Sibling male Cheetahs will stay together for life and so will male Lions..

Anyhow. personally i do give people a lot of blurb when they ring me about adopting a cat from a litter where one has recently died. Being that sometimes a cat on its own actually loves it and the introduction of another puss cat not related could end in disaster.. I have known cats to completely change their character for the better once a more dominate cat has died...

So.. in my view cats are not social animals they just put up with it as we make them like that.

[ratscallions]

She already eats extremely little. We talked to the vet about it, and he would not be happy for us to decrease the amount we feed her. That's why it comes down to exercise.

I'll have a look for this Da Bird .. we're not a particularly ornamenty house.

Thank you

[blackcat]

you can get interactive toys and force her to exercise, and also cut down on her food to help her lose weight. Da Bird (which is available in the Purrs shop) is guaranteed to get even the most sedentary cat flying around like a kitten (but watch out for your ornaments). Having another cat around is no guarantee of more activity. My lot are perfectly happy to sleep on regardless ...

[ratscallions]

Thank you all for your replies.

No, she doesn't seem lonely. But she has got fat since we had her. It's been suggested that the reason she's got fat is because she doesn't exercise enough. She has toys but she doesn't play with them much. And she doesn't like to go outside for more than five or ten minutes at the most; during which time she just sits outside the door surveying her territory.

I was thinking that perhaps the company of her brother was what was keeping her active before he passed away. I didn't really know them then, but they may have played together, and I bet she roamed further afield when outside of the house.

However, I can't be sure that another cat would have that affect.

Wahhh .. confused!

[JackSpratt]

Difficult to say; each cat is different. I have four cats and three out of the four will happily curl up together and go to sleep. They'll also groom each other. The fourth cat is more subdued - she touches noses with the others, but would never curl up with any of them.

Does your girl seem lonely to you?

[blackcat]

I think that, strictly speaking, cats are solitary beasts. But they are also adaptable creatures and will happily get along with another cat or cats. There is always a risk when introducing a new cat, that you may overtip the equilibrium that keeps them happy together and that way lies problems. Feral cats do live in colonies, but that is often because there is a ready source of food nearby and so they tolerate each others' company so that they can access the food. So, basically a solitary animal that is capable of adapting to communal living, rather than an animal that 'needs' company as a dog does ...

[Bonkers Mad!!!]

personally my cats are very much a pride in their behaviour.  they behave, as a group, exactly like a lion pride.  the hierarchy is the same, alphas, adolescences and babies.  my 2 alpha males stay out of each others way.  my adolescent males play together and play with the kittens (somewhat rougher play with the kittens, exerting their authority).  i have 2 females who respect the alpha female but bully each other in anticipation of one day being the alpha.  i have 2 other females who are younger and stay away from the 2 bigger girls and show no interest in becoming alphas.  the 2 kittens stay away from the 2 alpha males and the 2 older females but play and are groomed by all the rest, male and female.  it's obvious to me which of the younger boys will eventually become the alpha male although i think i'll end up with 2 alpha females as neither of the older girls will give an inch.  when a newbie joins the family the hierarchy doesnt change if the noob is a kitten.  if it's an older cat there might be some scrapping for a bit, until the newbies place in the pride is established.

with one cat i'd say... it depends on the cat.  it would probably be better to get an older kitten (imo) as an adult cat might put her nose out of joint.

[ratscallions]

We received our cat in October, from my husbands brother who no longer wanted her. She is eight years old. Up until last year she lived as an outside cat with her brother, who was poisoned. Following his poisoning she didn't want to stay outside anymore, which is why they gave her to us. She is now mostly an indoors cat.

I keep wondering if she needs a friend though. I've thought about the species of wild cat that I know of, and the only species I can think of that live in groups are lions; every other species of cat as far as I know are solitary animals. Many people do keep multiple cats, but the only experience I have of this is my friends cats just about tolerating each other.

So, when the domestic breed of cat is feral, do they live socially or not?

ie, should we get her a friend?