Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat General => General Cat Chat => Topic started by: Mark on November 25, 2006, 11:51:29 AM
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A couple of weeks ago, the vets gave me various foods to try out for Clapton's Renal dysfunction. The other day, I ordered some more (luckily I ordered 2 kinds as he doesn't like any of them) I asked for the Hills cans and the receptionist asked if it was r/d. I said I didn't know as I obviously had recycled the empty tins. I said it sounded right ie r/d = renal dysfunction?? (I thought). She said she would check and get the coorect one. I picked it up yesterday and when I looked at the cans, they seemed different to the previous ones. When I checked, it said it's for weight loss. Two points here. 1. The receptionist should have checked and given me the correct one - In my book is no different to being given the wrong meds which could be fatal!. 2. Surely Hills should make the pacakaging clearer and realise that a lot of people might think r/d means renal dysfunction - I checked just now and the correct one is k/d - I think. I am p'sd off about it :nono:
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I just checked agin and Hill's website said r/d shouldn't be givens to cats with renal probs!!
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i can understand you being annoyed mark but i guess human error ! I also think now a days altho receptionisnt are still obviously involved with ordering in food they do not now dispense drugs. And this other food would not have been fatal even if clapton had been on it for a couple of weeks. It does appear though the recept didnt bother to look back your notes !
However just as well as you are so careful and noticed. Hills foods i guess can be confusing to the lay person who isnt used to dealing with it as it is all initials and there are so many. k/d = kidney disease. r/d = reducing diet (i think) luckily they all have different colours, i think k/d used to be orange and r/d is still green ( on the label not the actual food LOL)
How are you getting on introducing it to him anyway and is his gums ok now ??
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I just checked agin and Hill's website said r/d shouldn't be givens to cats with renal probs!!
No more so than normal food, it would be no more dangerous than normal cat food.
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Oh dear that does seem worrying, we had a cat years sgo who would get blocked (unable to pee) if he even had 2 meals that weren't his prescription diet so gving him the wrong prescription or non-prescription food could have been fatal. Seems the receptionist needs to be trained in dispensing prescription foods as if they were drugs, double and triple checking. of course human error does happen and she probably feels terrible now.
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At our vets even the receptionists goes into your pets records before handing any food over, they need to any way as it has be noted in those records..
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yep thats right mark. my cat is on rd for weight loss and we have to kkep an eye on her kidneys. but also as its prescription only food the receptionist has to get a file up on her pc with the cats records and if the cat has not seen a vet for a while we cant have the food.
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I can understand some degree of human error but she is/was well aware of Clapton's condition. Especially as she asked what diet he was on. Anyway, no harm done this time. One of my old bosses always said "assume everyone else is an idiot". In this case it's true ;D
As for his gums, the vet was at the receptionists desk yesterday and I told him Clappy's gums are still bad and he has probs eating - he even yelps and runs from the food bowl - the vet said it will be an ongoing prob :'(
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Dont understand that Mark........he shouldnt have gum probs that are so painful he cant eat........cant remember the story though.
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Poor Clappy. *tickles behind ears*
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mark i'd be more pissed off about his gums than the mistake of his food..sound to me like there could be roots or something still there but no cat should have "ONGOING" pain after a dental..I'd raise this until they give you some decent answers !!!!!
Kris if it was a diet to prevent crystal formation then that would be more serious potentially than some other conditions.
mark on the occasions i may have made some error of some type at my work i remember my boss saying "NEVER ASSUME"
LOL
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Mark ... not sure how much you are paying for your prescption food but you might want to check out this website: http://www.bestpetpharmacy.co.uk/search_results.asp?sec=121&gclid=CPvU8qeN44gCFRs9MAode0dMiw
You still need a prescription from the vet ... read the home page for the rules.
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you can get it from vetuk aswell and do it through angie so she gets donations.
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Oh yeah ... I forgot about that!
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the vet said the gum probs are connected to the kidney probs. I heard it the other way round that gum disease can cause kidney disease. I will give another week and see hi, again - if neccessary, get a 2nd opinion.
Thanks for the advice all ;D
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well i guess your vet defo knows far better than me but i will say i have known countless cats with kidney probs being as its one of the most common things in cats and i amnt aware of them having ongoing gum pain because of it, bad mouth however, yes can cause multiple organ probs,
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I read Marks post and I thought I know what I will reply and then there is was, already written by Lynn
bad mouth however, yes can cause multiple organ probs,
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Jeez i just re read my last post and what an earth ?? so obvious i wrote it late at night :rofl: anyway i guess you guys got the jist of what i was meaning!!
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I have had many cats who had all but fangs removed, some of them have eaten dried within hours and not appeared to be in pain, and never an ongoing problem (I offered them soft but went to dried that was for another cat).
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most prescription foods now come in wet and dry form, so you can pick and choose, but to me it sounds like the cat may have some infection in gums post op?? perhaps?
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It should not be long term though.
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He is bad today - I have tried 3 different foods to tempt him. He tried to eat one of them , yelped and ran behind the sofa. He seemed to be getting better a few weeks ago and was getting very playful. I will book him in tomorrow and unless I get a satisfactory answer, will get a 2nd opinion. Poor clapton has been through too much pain already.
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I agree a dental xray may not be a bad thing, I also want to add that if there is a piece of root there then its not due to rubbish dentistry etc...because of neck lesions the tooth can just snap off from the root and yes we go gouging trying to get the roots out often very sucessfully but sometimes you can be actaully in danger or doing more harm than good and potentialy breaking a jaw if you go too far. Cats fortunately seem to get less recurring problems from roots still in the jaw than dogs or humans do but obviously this doesnt sound like the case with poor clapton.
I do hope we get this resolved, im not suprised its so hard to get him to accept the new diet with a sore mouth the poor lad.
fingers crossed mark X
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I bought him some regular Whiskas supermeat which he lapped up and is a purry, happy bunny (well kitty) now. I pulled a dining chair up to a radiator in the dining room and he is as happy as larry. I will have to monitor him carefully. It takes him around 24hrs to get over a vet visit - he hides behind the sofa all day when I bring him back. I don't want to stress him any more than neccessary. Any signs of pain and I will have to take him - he is also still scratching the last razor cut and making it bleed (can't vets be a bit more careful shaving cats?)
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Hi Mark,
Don't forget - on the felinecrf website theres the list of non-prescription foods that are low in phosphorus that might suit Clapton, if he doesnt like the prescription ones. Also, if he won't eat those either - your vet can give you a phosphorus binder to put in normal food.
With regard to kidney disease causing mouth probs - yes thats correct, the toxins that build up in the body can often cause mounth problems. Its also correct that bacteria and toxins from the mouth can lead to kidney probs. As Lynn said, if he's got neck lesions in his teeth they are extremely painful and could cause the reaction your'e seeing backing away from the food, and the neck lesions can be difficult to spot in their early stages, although they still cause pain.
Gillian
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Razors to trim the fur? Eekkkkkkkkkkkk surely they use a trimmimg gadget, no cat should get cut.
I would still get his mouth sorted cos even if he suddenly starts eating he may suddenly get very bad again.
Your vet sounds a bit rough and ready to me!
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RE clippers, i have on occasion unfortunately experienced a very small nick in the skin caused by a proper clippers, if one of the teeth hasnt been quite right, however clapton was done a fair while ago now so should be healed and fur growing back.
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I too would be inclinded to have a word with the vet ASAP
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Well pic did not quite come out as intended
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Sorry I give up will someone please advise me how to get them animated on here?
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sorry dont know ela,
mark out of interest what antibiotics was he on ?
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I can't remember what antibiotics he was on - I know they were made by a french company and they were palatable. When I say shave, It could have been clippers as I didn't see it done. Also the bleeding could be caused by him scratching - hopefully the vet is good - he's the same one that Sharon from Canterbury CP uses. He seems OK now and is eating the regular Whiskas - I will have to look at the feline CRF site and see what they advise - time is really short as I am trying to run the B&B single-handed and do my taxes which are running late - millions of supermarket receipts to sort out etc - also got to get ready for a carpenter doing work this week. Also have the basement cleared and move 2 of the cats upstairs by 11th to have new floor put in - it's starting to be a nightmare! (and go to a cattery this week 2 take pics of 2 cats for Sharon - wouldn't miss it for the world though - the lady at the cattery keeps 2 pens for CP cats - Sharon said one of them had been taken to vet to PTS :'( )
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I too would be inclinded to have a word with the vet ASAP
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sounds like you have alot on your plate mark.
Also sounds like he was on synulox..you could ask your vet if you could have antirobe which is much better for mouth infections. (and bone infections)
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I think they were the tabs Lynn 8) I will definately take him again this week if no improvement but have to make sure he needs to go as stress makes him worse. Also, my good friend peri said, watch the vet as he was treating her cat Kev for kidney disease and he was in overnight for rehydration and died there - she got a £300 bill for the treatment! - he was 14 though. It's a shame I am on such bad terms with the vets next door as I would go there for a 2nd opinion (it's so bad now that I passed the owner in the street this week and he looked at the floor rather than acknowledge me :-[ )
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mark you're not the only one. Ive had moments like that with vets in the past but as I used to work for a vet part time as a student Ive learned what can and cant wash on some things, although I must say I think Ive been done over in the past too........
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I would like to think that a medical people are 100% ethical and business comes 2nd but not so sure thesedays. If my own dental is anything to go by, in 1986, a dentist in Essex said I needed a back tooth extracted as is was no longer viable to fill - I still have the tooth, albeit 90% filling as it has been worked on so many times but I still have it. A more recent thing. Last year I went to the dentist in Whitstable and as he is based in the medical centre I thought could be trusted. I had a pain in my back tooth. He took xrays etc and said he couldn't see anything. He offered to drill through an existing bridge (adding that if it broke he wasn't responsible) to redo a root canal underneath. He said it would take 1 - 2 hours and would cost £250.00 and would I like an appointment? - I asked if he was sure that it couldn't be a rumbling wisdom tooth or something? - He said he didn't think so - I said I would take a rain check as I don't part with money for myself as easily as I do for my cats :Crazy: - the next day, the pain started to go and within 3 days was gone completely and never came back! - Hence my distrust medical people that charge.
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Mark,
Just caught up with this thread ... poor old clapton and poor you ... sounds like it's one of those "never rains but it pours" times for you at the moment! Can't offer any more advice about Clapton I'm afraid but just wanted to send a big :hug: to you and a special :ahh: to Clapton. Hope he feels better soon and Mr Vet can sort out the problem.
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:thanks: Sam
:clap: Clap says he feels a bit better now :catplay:
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Ahhh that's good .... I must have healing hands :)
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seriously, he is eating normally tonight (not prescription food though - until I can change the r/d to k/d, he only has royal canin prescription and it smells nasty so clapton says :bum: to it!
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I agree with you lynn in this type of situation Anitrobe is possibley the best. My vet usually perscribes it in these situations.
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He won't eat at all today. I have tried about 8 different foods to tempt him. He just wants to sleep. Don't know if I'm being overanxious as kylie has slept most of the day too. I know he can't survive on ham :'(
I will take him tomorrow if there is no change but he gets so upset he plays dead and even pees in the carrier with fear so I don't want to stress him unless it's absolutely neccessary. I wish there was a visiting vet I could use. I bought some alu-caps in boots to add to regular food but he won't even eat that
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Mark you can actually put a cat off eating by offering so much different types of food so i'd perhaps offer him 2 max types and if he dont eat it just leave him for a day.
also hows about phoning the vet saying you are sure his mouth is still the problems and would it be possible for him to dispense antirobe capsules as you know these are very good for this type of infections and possibley some painkillers aswell to see if it makes a difference.
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Hi Mark
Have replied to your email.....
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Lynn, Before I read your last advice, I went to the pet shop and bought an assortment of pouches/trays and tried a few more out - he eventually settled for felix turkey foil tray. I watched him eat and he wolfed it with no sign of mouth pain - I am so confused. I tried to open his mouth today and he was having none of it, although it didn't hurt hime - I got gummed for annoying him ;D
I will keep an eye on him - at least I am around all day- the vets receptioist said she will squueze him in even if they are fully booked so I can be there in 5 mins if need be.
Tomorrow, I will follow your advice and put one thing out, If hedoesn't want it, he can go without - it will save me a couple of £ a day!
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:thanks: Helen,
Have you heard that Alu-caps have been discontinued? -I went to my local Boots and they had 24 left and charged me £1.20 for them but said that is it. I asked if there was a generic version but she didn't know.
Anyway, thanks again for the info
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There was a rumour about 9 months ago saying that (on CRF yahoo group) but my chemist still stock it as far as I know. When I first started using binders I asked my Mum to get me some from the US as she was going on one of her many holidays (not that I'm jealous >:() She is a bit of a know it all and rang arouind a few chemists where she lives and they all stocked it and didn't say anything about it being discontinued.
If it is being discontinued it might be worth ringing around a few local chemists in your area and stocking up, it normally comes in bottles of 100 which at Tiggy's dosage is enough to last 380 days. As far as I am aware there is no generic version, you can buy it from the US (it's called Aluminium Hydroxide gel powder) in massive containers that would last any cat a lifetime, fairly cheaply but it's the shipping that the stinger.
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Ipakitine is also a phosphorus binder, although some feel that it isnt as good as the alu-caps stuff and that it can increase calcium levels. Powdered eggshell can also be used as a phosphorus binder and I'm trying that for my cat Suzie.
Mark, have you got any feliway spray that you could spray into the carrier before you take Clapton? might help him feel a bit better about it.
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good plan i think mark re the food choices, can you imagine if your abit funny with your food and someone put half a dozen different types of food in your face all day, :sick:
maybe abit of a breather and he might feel more inclined to eat.
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Hi Mark, sorry I have just caught up with this thread. Poor Clapton, sounds like he's really having an unpleasant time of it. I had a crf kitty too and just wanted to add, antirobe would probably be the better anti biotic for him, some antibiotics can be harsh on failing kidneys. I am not keen on leaving him without food, even for a day, crf cats can very quickly get into a dangerous cycle of not eating due to pain or feeling sick, it is always better that he eats something. Once a crf cat gets into a cycle of not eating it can fade fast depending on toxin levels, anemia or any other ailment that may also be present along side the crf.
I hope you get his poor mouth sorted asap and that he regains his appetite. xxx
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I will try it as he is wearing me out and his food is costing more than mine!
Reminds me, he is upstairs so can hoover the l/g floor now!
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I do have feliway - I will give it a try if I really have to take him - he has already been 3 times recently :(
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How do you powder eggshell? - I assume with a rolling pin? - I would be nervous of giving him that :scared:
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http://www.felinecrf.org/persuading_cat_to_eat.htm#little_and_often
Thought this page from the crf site might help with regards to food. Maybe some baby food would help Clapton for the time being, just make sure it doesnt contain onion.
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Powdered eggshell - first wash eggshell (just water - not w/u liquid LOL!), bake in v. hot oven around 200 (fan) for 5-10 mins. Cool, then wizz in the coffee grinder - there you have it, powdered eggshell. Thats the recipe today then ;D
Powdered eggshell is quite often used in many rawfood recipes as the calcium source and my cats have all had it before, so adding a bit more to Suz's food is no prob. Its also been used in people with kidney failure as a phosphorus binder where it was found to bind phosphorus successfully without raising calcium levels apparently, unlike some other calcium carbonate sources - mine of useless information aint I? :)
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Just catching up with this = RC also do renal food, I do have some here if you want me to send you some for him to try? Have both wet and dry. I really would be tempted to get his teeth checked, I know he hates going, but they are serious. Good luck!!
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Thanks Gillian. It's odd (maybe not) that both kinds of phosphorus binder are indigestion remedies
Thanks for the recipe - I don't have a coffe grinder - I guess I could buy one if need be :thanks:
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Thanks Desley but I have some of the RC one - Luckily, I ordered 2 kinds from the vet - I think he prefers the Hills (he point blank won't eat RC - even a tiny amount in regular food) - I rang the vets receptionist today and she still thought r/d was the correct one! - eventually, she said she will order the correct one after checking with the vet!
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Thanks Elaine - I will try baby food as a fall-back or mix some in his food - I have been mixing ham in food which seems to help but I'm wooried about sodium levels (+ the other crap they put in it!)
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Finding baby food without onions or garlic in is a task in itself. The only one I'm aware off is the Heinz Mum's own 4 month with Beef puree. Apparently both Asda and Tesco sell it but I have tried ordering when I do an online shop and they always send Bananas and Custard as they were out of stock :innocent: Went into both Tesco and Asda 'real life' shops and neither had it, just the label on the shelf so I think they may have supply problems.
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I think you should have a word with the vet about his poor receptionist, I can't believe she doesn't know about the prescription foods - mine have a booklet hanging up about them all, it takes seconds to check. My vets always enter prescription food onto their records, and they check them before dispensing them. If you buy prescription food online, do be aware that you get charged p & p, last time I worked it out, it didn't save me any money.
I found the same probs as Helen wiht finding baby food - in America, it is easy, not so over here!!
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Yes I check vetuk - it was £7.6 postage + you had to buy 24 at a time - the vet charges 95p a small can of hills but I can have 6 at a time if need be. - This is going to be an expensive hobby! - he's worth it though :catluv: :catluv: :catluv: :catluv: :catluv: :catluv: :catluv: :catluv: :catluv: :catluv: