Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat General => General Cat Chat => Topic started by: sunama on April 03, 2008, 15:36:12 PM
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Well, after much research I decided upon getting 2 kittens. An Egyptian Mau and a Bengal. Both male. Last night, the first kitten came home with me.
He is Egyptian Mau and has super fast reflexes (characteristic of this breed). I have thus called him Reflex.
Reflex loves the cat tree:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/CatTree2.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/CatTree1.jpg)
85% of his time is spent on/in it. He even slept in it. I bought a nice cat bed, which he totally ignored, choosing instead to make his bed in one of the dark covered area in the cat tree. This is Reflex, the Egyptian Mau:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/FirstDay1.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/FirstDay2.jpg)
What happened last night...
Got him home at around 2130hrs.
He was scared of me a little, however, he insists on following me around the house, even though he is stand off-ish. He is used to living in a HUGE cat family and he clearly misses his feline friends. Anyway, he only needs to hang on for a month when his Bengal playmate arrives. I think they will be ideally suited to eachother because, the Egyptian Mau is very athletic, while the Bengal is a dominating breed which harrasses fellow kittens/cats. Hence the Egyptian Mau will have the energy levels to deal with his younger Bengal friend.
It was a tough night last night. The kitten slept in spits and spurts, as he is still very scared. I slept in the lounge with him, as whenever I would leave the room, he screamed and made a racket.
He is still not eating much. He likes "real" chicken. Loves it in fact, but the breeder did tell me to give wet food only as treats. Once every other day. His dry food is the stuff that will make him grow up healthy, which he doesnt seem to like. If this situation doesnt improve in the next few days, I may have to starve him until he eats the dry food. We shall see.
He has not drank any water yet.
Litter tray activity - 100% spot on. No accidents.
One thing that Reflex did was very strange last night. I got him home and after about 3hrs (during which time he was making a lot of screaming noises), I switched on the music. He immediately got scared and ran out of the lounge and hid in the hallway. He eventually came back in, but this time was totally quiet. He seemed confused as to where the music was coming from and was looking in the direction of the speakers. He then got back onto the cat-tree and went to sleep.
Oh, and he loves his exercise. He runs and runs till he gets out of breath. He then waits 10secs to catch his breath, then starts again.
I'll take some more pics today, of his actually standing up, rather than the half-asleep pics, Ive posted above.
The 2nd kitten shall be a Bengal, arriving in 1 month. The pics below were of the Bengal when he was 5 weeks old, taken I visited him in Bournemouth:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/DVC01118a.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/DVC01121a.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/DVC01122a.jpg)
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Congrats on your new kitten! Reflex is such a cutie.
All kittens/cats react different in a new home. If he’s afraid of music maybe if you sit in the room with him and read. This will get him used to your voice and yourself.
My poor foster kittens sat through 2 harry potter books and 3 terry pratchett books as well as the only radio station I could find (it’s an old radio). (you can also record your voice and play it back if you have the technology)
Another thing you may want to try is one of those hot water bottle things with the animal cover (there’s snugglesafe ones just for pets) to give him a friend until your Bengal arrives.
I got one for my older cat for winter and well, one of my younger cats adopted it.
Don’t know what kind of toy’s you’ve purchased but if you have the fishing rod type toys that’s a great way to bond without making them feel threatened.
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Thanks for the advice.
The kitten was only scared of the music for a few minutes, but got used to it quickly, once it realised that it was not a threat. In fact, I'm scared to put the music off now, fearing that he might start crying and yelping, in response. The real test will come if I crank up the volume to some dance tracks.
The hot water boil idea sounds good to me.
I have the fishing rod type of toys. One is already broken and I have 2 left. I think 1/week is likely, though I must learn to be more gentle. Because the kitten is so fast, its difficult to gentle.
Also, any advice regarding dry vs wet food will be appreciated. Right now, he only wants to eat wet food.
Thanks.
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In a new place with new noises he may just need a bit of time to get used to things. Leaving the radio on will help, especially getting used to noise in general.
Mine freaked out because I came in the house by our back door one day, I’ve never done it before and you would have thought they didn’t know me!
Yeah mine go through the toys pretty quickly as well ;) I’ve got a Burmese that’s never really learned how to gently play, she’s a force of nature really.
We do a dry food down all day, Hill’s Feline Adult Chicken (used to be kitten when Lirael was under 8 months) and wet food in the morning to snack on (which is whiskas whatever in jelly). None of mine are picky when it comes to food but if I don’t feed them a bit of wet in the morning they try and trip (or possibly kill) me by getting under foot. Sometimes you have to try different foods until you find something they like. If you do feed him just wet, make sure it is a complete wet food as some aren’t and don’t have the full vitamins etc that a growing kitty needs.
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They are both adorable
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You lucky devil.
Bengaly Bum is :Luv: :Luv: :Luv: - so is Reflex :Luv: xx. Any ideas on your Bengal's name.
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Its really important that he eats well so feed him a wet kitten food that he likes or he will lose weight :(
Wet food is best for him ;D
Hes very cute :Luv:
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Thanks for the advice/comments guys.
I heard that Royal Canin was fantastic, so thats what I tried him on yesterday and this morning - he had none.
So I then opened up a pack of Hills Science Plan, kitten, chicken flavour.
He wharfed that down pretty quickly, though not as enthusiastically as he did the real chicken.
He later went and drank some water for the first time, which was a relief.
I still want him to be as strong as possible, so obviously starving him into submission isnt ideal.
1 problem was that although he was eating dry food, he was still suckling his mother's milk, so yesterday he had his last drink of milk. Perhaps he misses the milk and is now in the processing of adapting to life without mum.
I have a sample pack of Hills wet food, for kittens - perhaps I should see how he likes that and if he does, then that could be his staple food. I'm just a little dubious of the dry food, as he isnt really taking to it. After playing with him with the cat toy, which really does push him hard, I want him to eat well.
I havent come up with a name for the Bengal yet, as I have yet to see his personality. One thing that struck me was that he was on the large side, so I was thinking something like Colossus. Though I would really need to see what he looks like now...remember that pic was taken when he was only 5 weeks old, so he has probably changed a lot now.
EDIT: one other thing - in the wild, felines would generally feed on meat only. Given this, why cant their domestic counterparts do the same? Why do they need vitamins etc, from their food? Surely meat is all they need? Would someone care to explain?
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Dry food is good for their teeth ;) Unless you plan on brushing them. Course treats help with this as well.
Can I ask how old is Reflex?
Cats in the wild get various foods besides just the good meat, they probably eat bones of said animals, feathers, dirt, grass etc. Domesticated cats get man made food with hopefully is the best possible diet for them.
Leave a bit of dry down, you might be suprised. Mine tend to nibble this through the day.
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None of mine have ever taken to RC but they love Science Plan.
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EDIT: one other thing - in the wild, felines would generally feed on meat only. Given this, why cant their domestic counterparts do the same? Why do they need vitamins etc, from their food? Surely meat is all they need? Would someone care to explain?
The answer is - they can! - well not just meat, but a balanced meat diet is exactly what cats need. Dry food is only a relatively new way of feeding cats and unfortunately is not a natural diet for a cat. I would only ever feed dry food as a treat - it doesnt clean teeth, in fact it can contribute to dental problems - so if your kitten prefers meat to dry, then perhaps try some of the high meat content wet/canned/pouch foods on the market.
Edit: - little Reflex is gorgeous by the way! :Luv2:
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Can I ask how old is Reflex?
3 months and 1 day.
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Can I ask how old is Reflex?
3 months and 1 day.
He really is such a cutie. I love the ears! Wasn't sure if he'd grow into them of they'd grow with him.
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Lovely kittens :Luv:
On the question of feeding dry only. My kittens are reared on wet and dry food as well as chicken. Being honest most of my bengals have not developed an appetite for dry food until they were older always preferring the wet.
I wouldnt starve him but feed him the wet meat he clearly loves. I have some bengals who eat mainly dry now and others who eat mainly wet. I dont personally see any difference in their health......the most important thing with your kitten is to feed a complete food he likes and will eat.
The other thing we recommend when bringing a kitten home is to put him/her in a small room where they can have time to familiarise before introducing to the rest of the house. This can help alleviate some of the stress the kitten will have in making the transition.
If you have any questions at all, happy to help.
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Reflexis a beautie and as Absolutely all Bengals are stunning, you are very lucky :Luv2:
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i agree with everyone else about the food, and please dont starve him, it isn't good for him, and cats can get ill from not eating food. Do you have a side on pic of him, he doesn't look very spotty in the pics you posted - I am also surprised you have got him yet, pedigrees are supposed to be 13 weeks old.
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i agree with everyone else about the food, and please dont starve him, it isn't good for him, and cats can get ill from not eating food. Do you have a side on pic of him, he doesn't look very spotty in the pics you posted - I am also surprised you have got him yet, pedigrees are supposed to be 13 weeks old.
by my maths that would be three months old (give or take a day). Which Reflex is. A week one way or another is not a major issue as long as he has his vaccinations...
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Reflex is great and agree with the others on the food side. I would never feed just dry food although its down all day id they want to nibble ;D
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BC, it is 13 weeks so they have a week after their second vacc in case of a reaction.
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I know Desley. I used to breed cats ...
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Reflex is gorgeous :Luv: And your bengly is a cutie too. Bet you can't wait to get him home.
As to wet v dry - it's a personal choice at the end of the day, and if you feed a good quality dry food your cats will get all the nutrients they need. I, personally, would always choose to feed all wet or mostly wet because of the moisture in wet food and the lower carbohydrate content in most wet foods. Dry food is a man made food, and while many cats live long and healthy lives eating only dry, it's not an optimum diet for a carnivore imo. If Reflex prefers wet to dry, I would feed him that.
I can't offer much advice about his behaviour as I've only ever had cats who have bounced out of their carrier and made themselves instantly at home! ;D But lots of cats do take a while to settle down and get used to their new home, so I think his nervousness is normal.
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Do you have a side on pic of him, he doesn't look very spotty in the pics you posted - I am also surprised you have got him yet, pedigrees are supposed to be 13 weeks old.
How's this:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/DSCF0195a.jpg)
Yeah, 13 weeks = 3 months.
I would liken the way he moves and how he sits, most like a monkey. He uses his front paws, as if they are hands. And with Egyptian Maus, the front legs are shorter than the back legs, giving the appearance of a monkey.
He really does need a playmate though, so its just as well I decided on getting 2 cats, as opposed to just the one. It'll also be interesting to see how he associates with a cat of a different breed, with different strengths and weaknesses. Today, he was walking around the house, making chirping noises. I think he was attempting to seek out another feline friend.
Well, he does seem to be eating the dry Hills Science kitten food (chicken flavour), so what I am doing is mixing real chicken with the dry food, so he is getting a mixture. I've also used the technique of giving him the dry food first (which he doesnt really like) and then immediately after giving him some chicken (which he loves and would probably eat even with a full stomach).
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Aw bless.....very spotty! :Luv2:
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He's a gorgeous little baby :Luv: :Luv: But yes, agree with the others about the food situation. I would advise getting him a decent food that he likes and sticking to it, both wet and dry. All my kittens/adults have dried down constantly and their wet food on top. Starving a kitten into eating what you want him to isn't the way to go about things, tricks like that don't work with cats and can have a lasting effect on him if he doesn't become ill first.
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Can I ask how old is Reflex?
3 months and 1 day.
That one day is very important and makes all the difference :)
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Right, this morning, I put in front of him some Hills Science, chicken dry food (which he had yesterday). He sniffed, but didnt touch. I kept putting him in front of the food dish, but he didnt want anything of it. I then took out the dry food and replaced it with Hills Science Kitten wet food (chicken). He liked the smell and the taste and went for it. He ate over half the pouch, until he couldnt eat anymore.
I still feel he prefers real chicken, so I might use Hills Science Kitten wet food and add some extra pieces of chicken. This will increase its protein content as well.
The single sample pouch of wet food has very little left, after this morning's feed, so I might try him out on Whiska's Kitten pouches over the weekend and wait for the the Hills Science wet pouches to be delivered next week.
What is the opinion on this forum of Whiska's kitten wet food?
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I give mine Whiska's kitten wet food along with their dried but I tend to use the pate rather than the pouches, but some do prefer pouches, it depends on the kitten. You will have to be careful swapping and changing foods though as this may give him a runs, once you get him on foods that he likes, I would stick to them throughout.
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If he likes chicken you could try applaws kitten food (somebody posted a while back that they had confirmation that it was a complete food)
Felix and whiskas is what many cats get but if you want to try better quality foods with more meat look into natures menu, applaws and eaglepack ;D
Thats a great picture :Luv: is he settling in better? He will be pleased when his new chum turns up :evillaugh:
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Hi sunama, we chatted on the catchat website and I told you I have an Egyptian Mau and a Bengal/Siamese cross. Flynn (my Egyptian Mau) is now almost 6 months.
Flynn is a typical Egyptian Mau in many ways. It is sudden loud noises he does not like. He does not like not having his paws on a surface, so I am careful how I carry him and what position I put him in if giving him pills. He also is very happy eating Hill Science Kitten pouches and Hills Science diet dried. He loves toys that move fast (e.g. Panic Mouse) or make chirpy noises. I have one of these sound-mouse toys (http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/cat_toys/cat_dangler/13641), which is really useful as he comes when he hears it - he does not come when I call him. Warning - buy more than one as they do not last long.
He is the worst food thief I have ever owned. Do you think this may be because they were bred from Cairo street cats? He hoovers scraps off the floor - even frozen peas!
All predictions about how good an athlete he would be have proved correct. He loves to play chase and to climb - wow he can climb! He escaped into the garden earlier this week and he was almost a blur, he was running so fast. He was up the trees and down again. Luckily, he stopped for a moment and my huband caught him. He now stares out of the window hopefully but as we are catproofing our garden he will only have to wait a few months.
He has always been very purry. Now that he is 6 months he is being more affectionate. He visits me for occasional cuddles and will sit on me if I have a towel or blanket on my lap to give the illusion of a flat surface. He had also started to chirp, which I understand is typical of Egyptian Maus.
I am sure that Reflex will be very happy with you and with his Bengal pal when she/he arrives.
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Hi sunama, we chatted on the catchat website and I told you I have an Egyptian Mau and a Bengal/Siamese cross. Flynn (my Egyptian Mau) is now almost 6 months.
Hi Moira
Flynn is a typical Egyptian Mau in many ways. It is sudden loud noises he does not like.
Reflex gets scared when he hears a fan-like noise. My hairdryer scares the living daylights out of him. As does the electric fan heater.
He also is very happy eating Hill Science Kitten pouches and Hills Science diet dried.
I'm currently giving him Whiskas kitten wet food, as I donot have access to Hills Science. He seemed to really have liked rabbit flavour. Today was the day he ate the most, so clearly he is getting his appetite back, after moving into his new home. I havent seen him eat as fast as when eating real roasted chicken though. I tend to mix in either some dried food or real chicken into his wet kitten pouch food.
Looking at the nutritional information, I dont quite see much of a difference between Whiskas and Hills Science, even though Hills Science works out more expensive. I would rather save the money and spend it on some real chicken and mix it into the Whiskas wet food, for an extra protein boost.
I'm actually wondering whether or not to bother placing an order for Hills Science, bearing in mind that he seems happy with the Whiskas.
He loves toys that move fast (e.g. Panic Mouse) or make chirpy noises. I have one of these sound-mouse toys (http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/cat_toys/cat_dangler/13641), which is really useful as he comes when he hears it - he does not come when I call him. Warning - buy more than one as they do not last long.
I shall put one of those things in my next zooplus order. I have a few toys for him, which I bought to find out what his favourites are, so I have a good idea now, what he likes. Right now, playing with him with the toys to give him exericse is very important. I make him climb up the cat tree, up and down, at least 15 times a day and he is getting a lot more confident when dealing with heights.
He is the worst food thief I have ever owned. Do you think this may be because they were bred from Cairo street cats? He hoovers scraps off the floor - even frozen peas!
I dont feel that Reflex eats enough food right now. According to Hills Science and Whiskas, he should be getting through at least 3 pouches a day, but he has only been eating about 2/day. This might be down to the fact that he is still getting used to his new surrounding and routine. At this point, he isnt a big eater.
All predictions about how good an athlete he would be have proved correct. He loves to play chase and to climb - wow he can climb! He escaped into the garden earlier this week and he was almost a blur, he was running so fast. He was up the trees and down again. Luckily, he stopped for a moment and my huband caught him. He now stares out of the window hopefully but as we are catproofing our garden he will only have to wait a few months.
This morning, he was running all over the place, after he had eaten. He also went to the loo by himself during the night, which is something he hasnt done so far. I have always had to walk him to the bathroom, where he does his thing.
He has always been very purry.
Reflex only purrs when he is about to goto sleep, after his feed and exercise. A low rumbling noise.
He had also started to chirp, which I understand is typical of Egyptian Maus.
Mine chirps all the time. When he is awake during the day, he makes a lot of noise. However, in the evening, after his feed and exercise, he goes almost silent, before making his way to the cat tree, where he sleeps.
I am sure that Reflex will be very happy with you and with his Bengal pal when she/he arrives.
The Bengal is really what he needs asap. I can see that he is used to having lots of feline company around him and I think he will go besserk when he sees another cat to play with. At the breeders' house, he was very happy playing with other cats. He didnt fight, but he used to chase them around and was always competing for the cat toy. He was definitely the most dominant of his litter, something required to deal with the Bengal - which is a dominant breed of cat who will grow up to be bigger and stronger than Reflex.
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I think there is a difference between Whiskas and Hills Science diet (or one of the other 'high quality' brands). I looked on the web and all I can find about the nutritional content of the Whiskas kitten pouches is:
Protein 9.0, Oil 8.0, Ash 2.5, Fibre 0.3, Moisture 80.0, Calcium 0.3. Vitamin E: 25 mg/kg, Vitamin B1: 0.9 mg/kg.
Hills Science Diet chicken kitten pouches are guaranteed 40% chicken and you can get much more information looking at this link: http://www.hillspet.com/media/WEURG/product/prodKeyPDF/en/SP_FL_P_ktn_NA_o_O_n_chkn_WEURG_prodKey_en.pdf
Although they are both about 9% protein, I think it is an issue of knowing where that protein is coming from. I would always feed a kitten food that gave this level of information and which was this well defined. There are lots on the market. I buy online whenever there is a 2 for 1 offer to bring the price down.
I have bought up most of my cats on Hills Science Diet dried with great success, and have only started to feed a mixture of pouches and dried with these two, because of the digestion problems the little Siamese/Bengal mix had when she arrived with me. However, I have to confess my adult cats also like the pouches and I know that it is considered 'good practice' to feed a mixture of dried and wet. I now have the dried out all the time (it is a much more concentrated food) and give them a small feed morning and evening from the pouches. Luckily Flynn's food thievery is about sampling everything, not gobbling everything down. Flynn eats about one pouch per day (half in the morning, half in the evening) plus, approximately, half a mug of the dried food (which is out all the time). It is difficult to tell when you have four cats!
Do not worry about feeding up to the manufacturers suggestions. They often suggest high amounts. It is better to monitor your kitten by weighing him and checking that he is continuing to gain weight. I use my electronic kitchen scales that weigh up to 5 kg. If he does not gain weight over, say, a week he needs to see a vet.
You may like to use a growth curve like this one: http://www.myhillspet.com/~/media/2E66E3E3F8F44E6D99BF8542B2466B4F.ashx
I only used the graph, not the rest of the stuff. Flynn has grown consistently just under the top of the curve for the male kitten.
It was this curve that alerted me to how sick Mitzi was when, despite eating all the time, she was way below the bottom of the female kitten curve for 9 weeks. Now she is above the top of the female kitten curve and showing her Bengal heritage!
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What type of cat is this??? He was my buddy in Egypt!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/hildagrove/IMG_1512.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/hildagrove/IMG_1511.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/hildagrove/ginger.jpg)
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dont worry if thier little stand offish it can take time depending on the cat Just dont crowd them let them settle and carry on as normal theyll soon come round once they see they can trust you The odd treat hand fed can work wonders as well
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Hi SpecialRed, That looks like an Egyptian Mau type cat to me! Look at my picture of Flynn in my signature. Of course, he may not have had all the 'breed characteristics'. You might find this site interesting: http://www.emaurescue.org/. They rescue street cats from Egypt, look after most of them but pick out those closest to the 'breed type' to send to the US and England.
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I think there is a difference between Whiskas and Hills Science diet (or one of the other 'high quality' brands). I looked on the web and all I can find about the nutritional content of the Whiskas kitten pouches is:
Protein 9.0, Oil 8.0, Ash 2.5, Fibre 0.3, Moisture 80.0, Calcium 0.3. Vitamin E: 25 mg/kg, Vitamin B1: 0.9 mg/kg.
Hills Science Diet chicken kitten pouches are guaranteed 40% chicken and you can get much more information looking at this link: http://www.hillspet.com/media/WEURG/product/prodKeyPDF/en/SP_FL_P_ktn_NA_o_O_n_chkn_WEURG_prodKey_en.pdf
I tend to be someone who doesnt really buy into the expensive marketing claims. If its one thing Ive learnt, being into health and fitness, it is that we shouldnt fall into the marketing hype. A great example is Maximuscle protein supps - very expensive, for what they actually are. You can get the major raw material used for a fraction of the price and drink that with some water. In the same way, I would rather buy a cheaper wet food and top that up with real chicken, which I will know for a fact is of the highest quality - something that cannot be said about any of the kitten food manufacturers.
The Bengal breeder stated that he uses Whiskas wet kitten pouches.
Although they are both about 9% protein, I think it is an issue of knowing where that protein is coming from.
Thats why I would rather add my own roasted chicken. This is guaranteed to be chicken that is good enough, even for human consumption.
Do not worry about feeding up to the manufacturers suggestions. They often suggest high amounts. It is better to monitor your kitten by weighing him and checking that he is continuing to gain weight. I use my electronic kitchen scales that weigh up to 5 kg. If he does not gain weight over, say, a week he needs to see a vet.
You may like to use a growth curve like this one: http://www.myhillspet.com/~/media/2E66E3E3F8F44E6D99BF8542B2466B4F.ashx
I only used the graph, not the rest of the stuff. Flynn has grown consistently just under the top of the curve for the male kitten.
Nice info.
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Hi SpecialRed, That looks like an Egyptian Mau type cat to me! Look at my picture of Flynn in my signature. Of course, he may not have had all the 'breed characteristics'. You might find this site interesting: http://www.emaurescue.org/. They rescue street cats from Egypt, look after most of them but pick out those closest to the 'breed type' to send to the US and England.
They have to be quarantined for 3 months no good for having a kitten, but i might look into that, especially as there a natural spotted cat. Cheers
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He's adorable! :briggin:
You can't make them eat what they don't want to, and you can't stop them liking foods you wish they wouldn't - ask Mark because his Clapton drives him up the wall with his Chavy taste in cat food. :evillaugh:
The old argument of what they eat in the wild is :censored: quite frankly. In the wild, cats spend most of their time on point of starvation and will eat any tripe going to survive, and a lot don't succeed and perish through malnutrition or poisoning. A balanced diet of good quality biscuits and proprietry wet food, mixed with a little fresh meat (cooked or raw) is just perfect for any house pet. ;)
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A balanced diet of good quality biscuits and proprietry wet food, mixed with a little fresh meat (cooked or raw) is just perfect for any house pet. ;)
That sounds good.
Over the last 2 days, Ive been giving him Whiskas (wet) pouch, mixed with some Hills Science, kitten (dry) food, topped up with some roast chicken.
Initially, I was going to place a big order for Hills Science, kitten (wet) pouch, however, now I'm thinking of sticking with what Ive been feeding him for the last 2 days.
Some people feed their cats top quality organic food, with mineral water, while many human beings eat "value branded" supermarket food, as that is all they can afford. I donot agree with this philosophy. I'm not into falling for all the marketing. I'm sure Whiska's (though cheaper than the top quality brands), is one of the biggest selling brands as it is available in pretty much all supermarkets. Many cats have been eating this for many years with very few problems. Adding extra chicken to the Whiska's probably beats the meat and protein content of most of the quality brands, for approximately the same price.
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I would be careful how much fresh chicken you top up his diet with. Chicken on it's own (without organs, bones etc) does not provide a balanced diet and if you add too much to his food you could throw the balance of nutrients out. I would make sure the chicken doesn't make up more than 10% of his diet. A cheaper brand such as whiskas topped up with chicken is not the same as feeding a complete food with better ingredients.
If you look at the ingredients on a pouch of whiskas, they aren't great. They will meet minimum nutritional requirements because it is a complete food, and many cats have eaten whiskas for years without any ill effect, but if you compare them to those in something like natures menu you'll see a big difference, particularly in the meat content. I think whiskas might also contain artificial colouring?? (or did at one time). I do recommend studying the ingredients on different foods and then you can see how they differ. If he will eat them, I would recommend a brand with higher meat content than whiskas - eg natures menu, hi life, bozita, - rather than feeding whiskas topped up with fresh chicken. But it's your decision in the end.
If you're interested in reading up about feline nutrition, I think these articles are interesting.
http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=whycatsneedcannedfood
http://www.catinfo.org/
http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm
http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/
http://messybeast.com/cat-food-industry.htm
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Justv a slight word of warning about Natures menu and some of the very rich foods, some cats cant tollerate such a rich food and can get very upset tummies.
If they do stop any rich food and return to what they can eat without upsetting their tummies.
Also any change in diet should be done gradually.
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The impression that I'm getting is that different people have different attitudes as to what is and isnt right.
I think the only way to see which brand of feed is fit for the purpose is to look at the state of the cats who have been eating a particular brand of feed.
I can only tell you my experience when I was at the breeders and saw plenty of cats. The Egyptian Mau breeder had plenty of cats and fed the cats, predominantly, Royal Canin dry food. The breeder occassionaly gave the cats some wet food. The cats on display were all in good health. The oldest cat that I saw, while there was aged 9.
The Bengal breeder had plenty of cats on display - mostly Bengals, but also a Serengetti female as well as a Persian. I didnt ask their ages, but I believe that the Persian was the oldest. It was extremely large. The feeling I got was that most of their cats were a little on the fat side. The cats were mainly fed Whiskas wet food as well as some dry food (not sure what brand though). All the cats there (apart from being a little fat), seemed to be in good health.
Could it be that the food we give to our pets is being a little over-thought?
After some research, I came upon an article:
http://www.mousabilities.com/nutrition/research.html
Dr. Elizabeth Hodgkins DVM says that hundreds of thousands of cats needlessly have diabetes because the carbohydrate in dry food causes the diabetes and cats do not have salivary amylase necessary to digest carbohydrate and have very little pancreatic amylase and so it puts a huge stress on the pancreas having to try to produce enough amylase to try to digest the carbohydrate in dry food because cats were never meant to eat the 39-50% or more carbohydrate in dry pet food. Hills Feline Maintenance when I had it tested at Eclipse Laboratories in Cambridgeshire was found to contain 39% carbohydrate which is far too much for a cat and it contained 31% protein which is far too little for a cat since Richard Allport MRCVS says a cat needs 50-70% protein and Eclipse Laboratories told me that they could not tell whether the protein in Hills was vegetable protein or animal protein but it is vital that cats get animal protein. Hills also contained far too little animal fat since it contained only 9% fat and this low level of fat when a cat needs 30-40% fat in its diet causes dermatogical problems and cats derive energey from protein but the Pet Food Manufacturers Association wrongly say on their website that cats need carbohydrate for energy but cats produce glucose from protein and so do not need carbohydrate for energy and the Pet Food Manufacturers Association are completely wrong. They also say on their website that a diabetic cat should have no more than 25% carbohydrate but Elizabeth Hodgkins DVM who is a feline diabetes expert says this is far too much carbohydrate and that a cat or indeed diabetic dog must be taken off carbohydrate completely and she has found that doing this usually allows the animal to come off insulin and to even be cured of diabetes.
To me, the above seems to say that protein is the big food group that is required by cats. By supplementing a wet or dry cat food with some freshly cooked meat, would surely be the way to go...right?
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To me, the above seems to say that protein is the big food group that is required by cats. By supplementing a wet or dry cat food with some freshly cooked meat, would surely be the way to go...right?
The potential problem is that meat alone has a different calcium to phosphorus ratio to a whole animal. It has a high proportion of phosphorus compared to calcium (a whole animal - meat, offal and bones - will have a ratio of approx 1:1 but meat alone has a calcium:phosphorus ratio of approx 1:20). Calcium naturally binds with phosphorus to form calcium phosphate, and if the cat is eating something with a lot of phosphorus and not enough calcium, calcium will be drawn from the bones to form calcium phosphate. That can result in bone deformities, fractures etc (similar to osteoporosis in humans). That's why feeding meat alone is not a balanced diet for a cat, and is potentiall dangerous. If the cat is getting mostly complete food, that's less of an issue, but it's important that complementary extras, such as meat, don't make up too large a proportion of the cat's diet.
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supplementing food is good, but as Susanne says, you run the risk of over-supplementing and that can cause health issues. Food also varies from cat to cat - one of my bridge babes had Whiskas etc for ages, and I thought everything was fine, but I changed to HiLife and there was an immediate change in his fur - it went from clumping terribly to no clumps whatsoever. So while they might look fine on one food, a higher quality food could make them look 10 times better. Another word of warning is that Bengals are known to have a temperamental tummy, so something to watch out for.
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Ive just looked up Natures Menu protein content:
Typical Analysis
Protein 11%, oil 4%, fibre 0.2%, ash 2.5%, moisture 81%, vitamin D3 (9130iu/kg), tocopherol (30mg/kg)
This doesnt even get close to the higher protein content that is recommended by Richard Allport MRCVS who says a cat needs 50-70% protein [taken from the article I referred to in my earlier post].
11% is pretty low, even for a human being. I wouldnt even recommend that low a protein content for a human being who is training hard. For a cat, 11% isnt even close to the 50-70% recommended range.
I'm confused.
PS. Hi Life isnt an option yet as they dont seem to make a kitten food, which mine will be on for the next 8 months or so.
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You need to calculate it on a dry matter basis. The protein in wet foods seems low because they are about 80% water (similar to their natural prey). In order to compare foods you need to discount the water and calculate the values on a dry matter basis. Add water to anything and the percentage of other components will decrease. For that reason, nutritional analysis is usually done on a dry matter basis, but labels on pet food give the percentages for the food as fed. Natures menu has a protein content of about 58% when calculated as dry matter.
Yes it is complicated!
http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/dm.html
Hi Life do do a kitten food - it's called Hi Life Junior I think, and it's a complete food if memory serves me correctly.
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Natures menu has a protein content of about 58% when calculated as dry matter.
Thanks Susanne, that clears it up.
I'm leaning towards Natures Menu. Ive looked up HiLife (kitten) and its price is similar to that of Natures Menu. Natures Menu on the other hand has a higher meat percentage which is what I'm after, so Natures Menu it is. I shall get 12 pouches for starters and see how the kitten likes it. It will cost about 40p/pouch, which is pricier than Whiskas, but Nature's Menu is obviously higher quality.
Right now, I mix a little dried food with the wet food and feed it to the kitten. Is it worth me doing this or would I be ok to ditch the dry food completely? And can anyone recommend a good quality dry food?
Thanks
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If NM goes down well, PAH sell it in bulk (packs of 48 pouches exclusive to PAH) a bit cheaper. They used to be about £16 for 48 pouches, but every few months they were on offer for about £13. Unfortunately, the £16 standard price has recently gone up to about £18 so I don't know what the offer price will be (if they still put it on offer). Not so much of a bargain, but will still be a bit cheaper than buying the 12 pouch packs.
For dry food - have you looked at Orijen?
http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/dry_cat_food/orijen/45156
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For dry food - have you looked at Orijen?
http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/dry_cat_food/orijen/45156
Never heard of them. This isnt a kitten food though, is it?
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For dry food - have you looked at Orijen?
http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/dry_cat_food/orijen/45156
Never heard of them. This isnt a kitten food though, is it?
It's an all stages food so would be suitable for a kitten.
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I had a look to see about ordering it but see it's Canadian - I won't buy any Canadian products - OH will have to make that bottle of maple syrup last :-:
I wonder if there is another food with no grains?
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It's an all stages food so would be suitable for a kitten.
Great stuff.
I shall order this stuff and see if the kitten likes it. It seems to be very picky when it comes to dry food, forcing me to mix it into his wet food.
I shall also place an order for some Natures Menu. I'm sure he will like that, as he likes any wet food with meat in it.
When the Bengal arrives, we shall see if he takes to this menu.
Thanks for the advice Susanne.
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Remember to introduce it gradually, i find junky food eg whiskas to cause my lot tummy problems but it pays to be cautious ;)
My lot get 90% wet food with a bit of dry. I use it to call bribe them in for bed :evillaugh:
They love applaws and hi life :cook:
Susanne, that dry matter formula always gets me! :Crazy:
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My cats are all on Orijen dry and thriving and they have raw food too. NM was a big No No with my Bengals - runny bums all round, IMHO giving a cat whiskers is like feeding a child McDonalds every day - dont shout at me its just my opinion. That gave runny bums too.
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NM was a big No No with my Bengals - runny bums all round,
Damn! I am hoping that I wont have to continually be sampling different food brands. I am hoping that Natures Menu is all that it is cracked upto be. Certainly, due to the high meat content, my Egyptian Mau (who loves meat), should take to this.
IMHO giving a cat whiskers is like feeding a child McDonalds every day -
What makes you believe this? I'm wondering if because Whiskas is the bog standard, run-of-the-mill, supermarket cat food, that cat enthusiasts turn their nose up at it. Or perhaps there is a genuine, well-researched reason why Whiskas is berrated.
The Bengal breeder was feeding his kittens Whiskas. I viewed the father of the Bengal I chose and he was about the most fittest, most muscular domestic cat, I have ever seen. He was using the Cat Wheel ALOT, so perhaps this had something to do with this. I can only conclude that whatever they are feeding their cats, is what I need to feed mine.
They love applaws and hi life :cook:
I will have to give one of them a go if mine dont like Natures Menu. They cost around the same, which is a good thing.
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One of my cats, who will be clebrating his first birthday soon - was a nightmare to feed. I got him home and he didn't like anything really - and nothing of what I was advised to feed him which was an Asda cheepie. I could have cheefully throttled him as it took me ages to cycle over there. I tried him with everything and eventually stuck to Lactol and boiled chicken for a while. He now only eats Hi-Life fish and good quality dried foods. He worried me silly and name is Menu. Today, he is a big, bouncy lad. Some kittens have sensitive tummies.
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Please dont change the diet of your bengal immediately upon getting him home, they do suffer with more sensitive tums and are prone to runs at time of stress anyway (which a new home can bring on). I would recommend feeding whatever your breeder is feeding for a least the first few weeks and make any changes gradually, this way you can hopefully avoid full blow bengal tummy which is not nice ;)
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I would recommend feeding whatever your breeder is feeding for a least the first few weeks ...
That would be Whiskas kitten then.
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Please dont change the diet of your bengal immediately upon getting him home, they do suffer with more sensitive tums and are prone to runs at time of stress anyway (which a new home can bring on). I would recommend feeding whatever your breeder is feeding for a least the first few weeks and make any changes gradually, this way you can hopefully avoid full blow bengal tummy which is not nice ;)
I definitely agree with that. Changing food needs to be done gradually, and a new home can be a stressful time so it's always best to feed a new kitten on what he's used to until settled in and everything in the toilet department seems normal! ;) That probably applies to Bengals more than most due to their sensitive tums. Then you can think about gradually changing over to what you'd like to feed.
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Right.
Yesterday I received some Natures Menu Kitten.
Today I received Orijen dry food.
The Egyptian Mau hasnt really taken to Natures Menu...he prefers Whiskas Kitten. I'm persevering with Natures Menu though.
I gave him Orijen today and he liked it. Keep in mind though, that I am basing this on a single feed as Orijen only arrived today.
It seems the best way to get to him to eat Natures Menu is to mix it with some Orijen - a combination that he seems to like.
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You could also try mixing some of the NM with the whiskas - starting off with mostly whiskas and gradually increasing the amount of NM until you are feeding NM exclusively.
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I would mix the two wet foods rather than wet and dry - mixing dry does affect things like the crunchiness and its ability to be left for a while
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What my four cats eat is determined by what my Siamese/Bengal mix can eat as she has the most sensitive digestive system. After a nightmare of continuous diarrhoea when she was a kitten (I almost lost her), it is Hills Science Diet dried (Tuna) and pouches (Ocean Fish) all round. I am sure she could eat other food but I am not taking any risks - it was too stressful.
My Egyptian Mau would (and will, given the chance) eat anything and I think it would take a lot to disrupt his digestion. One of the advantages of being descended from Cairo street cats!
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The plan will be to feed the Bengal Whiskas kitten for the first week and then to work upto a 50/50 mix of Whiskas and Natures Menu.
On a separate note, I have noticed the Egyptian Mau, Reflex, becoming increasingly physical. He is taking on traits that I would expect more of a wild, untamed animal. Keep in mind that he is only 3 months old and has no qualms about biting and scratching.
He has boundless energy.
His reflexes are prodigious. In the evenings, its like somebody turns a switch, which gives him an extra boost. During this time, he moves so fast, that a camcorder which I am using to record his movements, cannot catch his movements, where if I advance the video footage, frame by frame, a single frame was not fast enough to graduate the movement.
I knew that I was getting the fastest domestic cat in the world, however, I was unaware that I was getting a cat that was this quick.
I have been exercising him on the cat tree (going up and down it to improve his climbing/jumping ability, as well his cardiovascular fitness) and I am now thinking that perhaps this might be a bad idea as I can actually see his fitness and physical ability improving by the day.
Consider also that I have a Bengal arriving in 3 weeks, who shall be 3 months old. I am actually worried that Reflex will rip him to shreds.
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He sounds exactly like Flynn.
Flynn went through a biting (deliberate) and scratching (unintentional) stage but he has grown out of it. Still the occasional nip but not hard, a love nip really. He no longer scratches and has stopped trying to climb us (thank goodness, that was painful). Now that he is 6 months and neutered he is becoming more affectionate. He is beginnig to come when called and wants to be stroked and sits on laps (but likes to sit on a towel or blanket rather than just clothes).
Him and Mitzi play chase (including climbing) and play fight for hours each day. Flynn could always win. He is bigger. He is faster. He climbs better. He leaps higher and further. He does not always win because the game isn't about winning, its about playing. He loves the physical activity. In fact, he's a softie with Mitzi and she usually gets her own way.
I don't think Reflex is aggressive, just super-active as an Egyptian Mau should be. And remember, those play bites and inadvertent scratches would not hurt another cat.
Do not restrict his activity. That may upset him. The more practice he gets, the more in control of himself he will become.
If your Bengal proves equally athletic (which is possible) you may have to consider a cat wheel!!!!!
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Thanks for the advice Moira.
I was actually thinking about a cat wheel last night, thinking of ways to build one, as it seems difficult to buy one on the open market. At this point I'm thinking of using a bicycle wheel, as the basis.
I fully expect the Bengal to be athletic, though obviously he wont be quite as quick as Reflex, due to the Egyptian Mau's breed characteristics. The Bengal's father was the most muscular cat I've ever seen, so it wouldnt surprise me if his son has the potential to go the same way.
I'm hoping that once I get the Bengal, he and Reflex will be able to play together and work off the excess energy in that way, rather than me having to (for hours) play games with the Mau. The crazy thing is that I was told that kittens sleep for 16hrs/day, Reflex doesnt. He hardly sleeps and is always up for action. Even as I type, he is looking for attention, attempting to jump all over me, using his sharp claws.
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If NM goes down well, PAH sell it in bulk (packs of 48 pouches exclusive to PAH) a bit cheaper. They used to be about £16 for 48 pouches, but every few months they were on offer for about £13. Unfortunately, the £16 standard price has recently gone up to about £18 so I don't know what the offer price will be (if they still put it on offer).
Just an update:
I went to Pets At Home in Ruislip.
They sold the Natures Menu Kitten pouches, in 12 packs, only. They were priced at £4.69, which was reasonable.
However, they did sell Natures Menu pouches, for adults, in 48 packs. These were priced at £18.49.
With regards to Reflex's diet: I have now settled on a 50/50 mix of Whiskas Kitten and Natures Menu, topped up with some Orijen dry food. He seems to find this acceptable with no problems. Over the last 3 days I have noted that he is eating rather a lot. I must buy some kitchen scales to start monitoring his weight. Where in the first 10 days, he seemed to be uninterested in food and kept walking away from food which was in his bowl, he now cleans his bowl and is ready for 2nd helpings, which I do give him, most of the time, as I need him to be nice and strong for when the Bengal arrives (who I know will grow up to be pretty large).
With regards to his scratching: I dont think this will ever stop, but I have now taken to cutting his claws every week, as they get sharp, very quickly.
With regards to his biting: He is still biting, however, most of the time, it isnt a hard/deep bite. Yesterday however, when I was speaking on the phone for an hour, there was an incident, where he bit quite hard. Its quite possible that he wanted attention and was angry at the fact that my attention was focused on my phone conversation.
I have also noticed that he has now developed a fascination for water and the kitchen sink. He can quite happily watch water and play with it, while it drops out of the tap for hours. He isnt quite confident though, to dip his entire body into water.
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Reflex is lovely looking :)
Can i ask where you got your cat tree from, and how much it cost? I'll be needing one soon :D
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Definately that was an attention seeking bite :rofl: :rofl:
What do you mean on the phone for an hour and not paying attention to the most beautiful cat in the world ;D
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The cat tree came from ebay. Including postage, I think I paid around £80. It was good value for money. Ive since been to pets at home and seen cat trees half as elaborate, being priced at around £100. The build quality is good - I have no complaints, however, the real test will come when I have 2 cats, at adult weights, though this wont be for another year or so.
I'm expecting to bring home the Bengal in 2 weeks time and I am very excited. Bringing in the cats is almost like having a baby - an exciting time, thats for sure.
Here is a picture of the Bengal, taken at 8 weeks old:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/8d21b857.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/dcd8eb6d.jpg)
...and this is what Reflex is looking like, these days. Excuse the blur, the battery was running low, so the flash cut out:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/c50caa46.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/db2a3436.jpg)
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Thanks for that, will check it out later :)
And ohhhh so pretty! What a stunner he'll be, he's a poser already!
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Moira, can we possibly some pics of your Egyptian Mau please.
Thanks.
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:Luv2: :Luv2: :Luv2: Gorgeous! :)
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Stunning cats - how come the Bengal breeder is letting him come to you at 10 weeks old though? Or have I misread your post?
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Stunning cats - how come the Bengal breeder is letting him come to you at 10 weeks old though? Or have I misread your post?
Pictures were taken at 8 weeks at the end of March. Bengal comes home at 13 weeks, first week of May.
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Bengal has arrived and I'm having a few problems.
First off, the Egyptian Mau is supremely athletic in comparison. He is stronger, faster and more intelligent, has much faster reflexes, but is around the same size as his younger friend. And this is when the Egyptian Mau is not at full strength (he injured his left, rear foot 2 days ago and he is limping).
The problem is that he keeps harrassing the new arrival. The Egyptian Mau has endless energy, while the Bengal gets a little tired. Also, last night and this morning they have already had their first few scraps. Lots of hissing and growling. The Egyptian Mau was the dominant cat of its litter and it is showing up now. He simply harrasses other cats into submission.
As a comparison, the Egyptian Mau is smaller, but leaner and heavier (at the same height). I cannot emphasize enough, just how much faster he is than the Bengal.
Ive not cut the claws of the Bengal, as I feel he needs any advantage he can get over the Mau.
Here's a pic of the new arrival:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/a41b92ed.jpg)
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not really a problem, more normal kitten behaviour to sort out who to be the top cat. I would only intervene if bloodshed is imminent. They should sort it out between them. Remember the Bengal is in new surroundings and probably not feeling too confident. All that will change as he becomes accustomed to the new home ...
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The Bengal is very brave. His problem is that he thinks he is stronger than he really is. The Mau is very tentative and worried about the Bengal. his problem is that he thinks he is weaker than he really is.
1hr ago, after eating, the Mau decided to go all out and attack the Bengal. Everytime I broke them up, the Mau would be on top of the Bengal, turn him over and show his dominance.
I'm not sure if this normal for a 3-4month old pair of kittens.
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like i said. Normal. Don't interfere with them unless bloodshed is imminent. They need to sort it out between themselves.
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It all sounds very normal and I agree that you should let them sort it out among themselves without interfering, provided neither is getting physically hurt or is becoming distressed. At their age a lot of it will be boisterous play. If your mau is more dominant than your bengal, it's likely they'll get the pecking order sorted out and your bengal will eventually accept the mau as a more dominant cat. Alternatively, as your bengal becomes more confident in your new home, he may become more dominant and challenge your mau. Either way, they'll very likely come to an agreement that suits them both. When I got Mosi, he wanted to be the most dominant cat but Jaffa had other ideas and would just sit on him :rofl: They are both dominant cats but Jaffa was obviously bigger then, being an adult cat to Mosi's kitten, and now that Mosi is almost fully grown he still weighs a bit less than than Jaffa as he's a smaller boned cat, so doesn't have much success trying to dominate him. He will still try from time to time and sometimes Jaffa has to hiss or growl at him, but things are ok between them most of the time as Mosi seems to have accepted that he's not going to win this one. If your mau seems to be bothering your bengal, you could try to divert his energy into a game by getting out da bird or something and tiring him out ;D
I would try to get them neutered sooner rather than later though - you don't really want a load of testosterone adding to the equation.
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Both have already been neutered.
How would I know that bloodshed is imminent. By the look of their fights so far, they look pretty vicious to me...especially the Egyptian Mau. They are both around the same size and I just dont think that size is the deciding factor here. The Mau is not only more intelligent and has sharper senses, but he is stronger, faster and physically superior in all areas. Once the Bengal grows heavier/bigger than the Mau, I still cant see the Mau being beaten due to his intelligence, speed and overall sharpness.
From what I can see, the Bengal isnt injured or bleeding. Right now he is sitting about 12" away from the Mau, as shown in the pic below:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/591f2e00.jpg)
The above pic suggests that there isnt too much of a problem between the 2. I think Reflex just wants a break right now, so isnt bothering to attack the Bengal. And the Bengal is pretty laid back - he can get on with any cat.
When I bring out the toys for the Mau, the Bengal joins in, at which point the Mau's attention is diverted to attacking the Bengal. So, while the Bengal is attacking the toy, the Mau is attacking the Bengal.
The Bengal's claws are razor sharp right now and Ive drawn A LOT of blood, as he is unintentially, cutting me. I need to cut the claws, but cant as thats the only advantage he has right now over the Mau (I cut the Mau's claws every week, without fail).
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Aww :Luv: :Luv: They look like they're getting on just fine in that pic!
Cats can play fight very roughly and it's normal to pin each other to the floor, attempt to bite the neck etc. That is normal dominance behaviour. The time to get worried is if Reflex bites your bengal badly or injures him, or if your bengal is telling him to let go (squeeling) and he won't. Or if your bengal is acting stressed when around Reflex, even when they're not actually interacting. They sound like 2 lively, dominant cats who are feeling their way around and establishing boundaries.
Personally, I would keep the claws trimmed on both of them. The last thing you want is for one of them to get accidentally scratched in the eye during normal play.
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The only time Ive seen the Bengal in distress was when he was being harrassed for about 20mins by the Mau, at which point he went to get out of the room, but the door was closed. At this point, I got hold of the Mau and popped him in the cat carrier for 5 mins, to calm him down. I am doing this every time I feel that the Mau is getting too aggressive. I'm not sure if this is the right thing to do.
With regards to dominance, the Bengal is already laying down on his back in the presence of the Mau, yet the Mau keeps hammering home the point that he is dominant.
This is my first set of cats and I have no idea how to tell if the play-fighting is normal or not.
When the Mau attacks the Bengal, the Bengal initially stands his ground, but it usually ends up in him running away, as quick as he can and squealing for all he is worth.
The Egyptian Mau is way ahead of the Bengal, in terms of physical and mental ability, yet there is only a month between the 2. Both are still young at 3 and 4 months old.
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Hi Sunama, Sorry I haven't been on in a while.
Firstly, a month is a long time in terms of kitten development. My Egyptian Mau, Flynn, is only 2 weeks older than my Siamese/Bengal cross, Mitzi, but even that meant he was significantly further developed. Flynn is now 6 months 3 weeks and Mitzi is 6 months 1 week.
Flynn and Mitzi play fight all the time. I think you just have to let the kittens sort themselves out unless you really think one is getting hurt.
Some pictures of Flynn and Miti. Mitzi is the black one. Flynn is a 'pet quality' silver Egyptian Mau.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj89/moiramassey/mitziandflynnfighting2-1.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj89/moiramassey/mitziandflynnasleep.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj89/moiramassey/mandftopshelf1.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj89/moiramassey/flynncan-1.jpg)
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Hey Moira. That pic of your 2 cats fighting are exactly what I am experiencing right now. Though obviously there is a lot of squealing and noise. The Egyptian Mau is the one who instigates it all, but he doesnt make a sound at all now. He is physical, while the Bengal is vocal. Also, your pic shows the Egyptian Mau on his back. That never happens with mine. The only cat on its back is the Bengal - the Egyptian Mau is in total control, during the entire fight.
Moira, I'm actually wondering if the Egyptian Mau breed is quite dominant and is therefore making the 2 week advantage (in your case) and 4 week advantage (in my case), look more significant than it really is. If it was the Bengal who was a few weeks older, I think that the Egyptian Mau would still be the more dominant. The fact that Egyptian Maus are the fastest domestic cat in the world, would tell us that they are the most athletic, which implies that they would probably be physically superior to all domestic cats (F1 Savannahs and Bengals, accepted, due to their wild genes).
During the month I have had Reflex, I have played with him A LOT - lots of climbing, running and hunting games. As he has become a rougher, I too have been quite rough with him, which means he has learnt to play rough. On top of all this, I have made sure that Reflex is fed many times a day. This has helped him develop his muscles, with the aid of all the physical training. The new Bengal on the other hand, is EXTREMELY gentle and clearly hasn't had any rough treatment. He probably also hasn't had the climbing, running and hunting training that Reflex has had.
A few minutes ago, Reflex went nuts and chased the Bengal pretty hard, so Ive had to put Reflex in the cat carrier for 5 mins. I'm hoping that he might learn that everytime he attacks the Bengal, he ends up in the cat carrier.
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Hi Sunama.
The cats are playing, really, not fighting! Honest. I am sure that yours are too.
If one of my kittens is dominant it is the little female, Mitzi, the Siamese/Bengal cross. In my experience, dominance in cats is not to do with size and strength but with character and history. Reflex may be dominant because he was the cat who was there first, and it may change with time. With mine, Mitzi was the smallest kitten in her litter but easily the most outgoing and determined. Unlike yours, my kittens knew each other from almost the beginning, as Flynn was fostered on Mitzi's mum when Mitzi was 2 weeks and Flynn was 4 weeks.
You may be right in that you have, by accident, encouraged Reflex to be rough. While I understand that you want to protect the smaller kitten, I would not put Reflex in the carrier for more than 5 minutes at a time and I would not interfere unless I was 100% sure Reflex was hurting the other kitten. It would be best if they sorted it out for themselves.
Oh and Mitzi is very vocal rather Flynn is relatively quiet - the odd chirp, lots of purrs and a growl when he is protecing his favourite toy from Mitzi.
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In my experience, dominance in cats is not to do with size and strength but with character and history. Reflex may be dominant because he was the cat who was there first, and it may change with time.
Dominance in cats is not always obvious and clear cut either. Sometimes one cat will appear more dominant in one situation but less so in another. Cats don't have a rigid dominance hierarchy like dogs, and it can be very fluid. I couldn't have told you who was most dominant between Jaffa and his brother Magpie. I don't think either exhibited obvious dominance behaviour towards the other. With Jaffa and Mosi, Mosi arrived as a dominant kitten (I was told by the breeder that he was the most dominant and active kitten in the litter and that he would grow up to be a dominant cat) and tried to dominate Jaffa. He failed because he was so much smaller and Jaffa is also a dominant cat. It was always Mosi that started anything and Jaffa who defended himself and made it clear who is in charge. I think Jaffa still has the edge now, but their relationship has evolved a lot over the past 2 years. Size wise they are about the same height, but Jaffa is heavier and more muscular than Mosi, whereas Mosi is more athletic.
The relationship between your 2 will change a lot as the grow and develop. They may not grow at the same rate, socially as well as physically. It may be that in time, your bengal will appear the more dominant cat or it may appear to change a lot as they sort themselves out. But cat play is essentially about practising the skills they need as adult cats and often appears more serious than it is. I used to put Mosi in time out sometimes if he got too rough. Mainly at bedtime when they'd both been fed and Jaffa was settling down on the bed. If Mosi started to jump on him and annoy him, I'd put him in another room for a few minutes to calm down. I adapted the human rule for children of 1 minute per year of life to one minute per month of life!! It worked well but I'd be wary of over using it and preventing them from sorting things out. Reflex needs to learn to read the signals your bengal is giving out and adapt his behaviour according to those.
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Right guys, I took a video of the 2 cats this morning fighting. Can you you tell me if this is normal? This is day 3.
standard quality:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsWXOx3LMCc
high quality:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsWXOx3LMCc&fmt=18
For what its worth, the Bengal looks a lot more confident in his behaviour now and the Mau is able to come very close to him without the constant hissing. My gut feeling tells me they are getting comfortable with one another now. The Egyptian Mau does have a higher energy level though, so the Bengal tends to run out of the room, after about 20mins of play fighting.
I've checked both cats and neither of them have any injury markings. There are no tufts of fur anywhere in the house. I also cut the Bengal's claws yesterday as my legs are now covered in scratches and wounds (blood) - he seems to not understand just how sharp his claws are.
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I looks just like my two when i got them (brothers) bit more vocal but the play fighting looks the same
hth
edit: forgot to say they look awesome :)
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yep, nothing to worry about there, perfectly normal kitten play. All kitten play is learning-based. And they are learning to protect themselves. The mau seems to be backing off when told he has gone too far, and the bengal seems perfectly happy with life as is evidenced by the independent play he is involved in at the latter end of the tape. There is nothing there that would warrant intervention of any kind, and certainly not 'lock-down' time. They are just two high-energy kittens, which is to be expected given their breeds. Does the bengal have a name. I am not happy having to refer to them by their 'breed'. It depersonalises them and they are clearly two very high-character babes!
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Ok thanks for that. It lays my mind to rest.
The first night I had to keep Reflex (Egyptian Mau) in my bedroom, to allow the Bengal to sleep in the lounge, without being interfered with. So last night was the first night both slept in the same room. It had looked liked both had already had some face-offs, when I woke up, but the Bengal wasn't injured or shaken up. Its reassuring to know that they are behaving as expected.
I still dont know what to call the Bengal. His pedigree name is Mister Bengal (Reflex's pedigree name is MisterMau), however, I havent yet given the Bengal his pet-name. I was thinking of Colossus, as his parents are large and it is likely that the Bengal will grow big and strong like his parents. The problem now though, is that the Bengal is being comprehensively beaten up by Reflex, hence, Colossus wouldnt exactly be an appropriate name. The Bengal seems lazy in comparison to Reflex, so maybe 'LazyBones'. I shall decide later this week, as his personality becomes clearer, bearing in mind that he has only been with me for about 50hrs.
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how about sansom, he got beaten up by a little guy!
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how about sansom, he got beaten up by a little guy!
Hehehe. Reflex aint so little ;) but I shall keep Sansom on my shortlist.
In size, the Bengal is longer, while Reflex is taller (long back legs).
Reflex is super lean and muscular.
In appearance they are very similar in size, but Reflex is heavier and has a thicker waist.
Minutes after the play fighting, I took this:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/2061f59f.jpg)
They seem to be comfortable eating from the same bowl, side by side. 24hrs this would have been impossible.
And 15 mins later, they are getting ready to sleep:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/d1937c94.jpg)
They are now fast asleep.
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don't forget the bengal is younger, as he gets older and learns how to use his body better he will start to be a handful for any cat :)
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don't forget the bengal is younger, as he gets older and learns how to use his body better he will start to be a handful for any cat :)
Good point. But I remember when I first got Reflex (1 month ago), he was a lot more agile, faster and active than the Bengal has been at the same age. I think the Egyptian Mau breed itself is a breed that is more active and faster than the Bengal. Even when at the breeder's house, Reflex was running non-stop, which was not the case with the Bengal. I think what Reflex needs is an F1 Bengal or Savannah to play with - unfortunately this aint gonna happen, so he will have to make do with his Bengal friend.
I still feel that there is a lot more to come from the Bengal, as he is still getting used to his new surroundings. He is also having to deal with a very fast/energetic cat, from a different breed, for the first time - something he will not have experienced before.
Another point of note is that I dont think the Bengal breeder exercised the Bengal a lot, so he isn't used to the climbing/jumping/running that Reflex does on a daily basis when I exercise him.
In a months time, we shall see if the story is any different.
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Looks like normal kitten play to me aswell, the boys (brothers who :Luv: each other) often have a rough and tumble which looks similar to your two playfighting except mine don't make any noise. I noticed half way through that whilst laying on his back being 'attacked' the little Bengal was munching on a rubber band so he can't have been too bothered by Reflex! Incidentally rubber bands are very bad for them so I'd get rid of it quickly before one of them decides to eat it!
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That video made me smile ;D Very normal behaviour. Love the sound effects ;D
It's still very early days and I think you'll find that as your bengal settles in and grows a bit (in confidence as much as anything else) he wont' be such an easy target and Reflex is less likely to see him as a threat.
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Looks like normal kitten play to me aswell, the boys (brothers who :Luv: each other) often have a rough and tumble which looks similar to your two playfighting except mine don't make any noise.
The noise is actually being made by the Bengal. Reflex is silent when he is playfighting.
Incidentally rubber bands are very bad for them so I'd get rid of it quickly before one of them decides to eat it!
Noted.
Its a relief to know that all this is normal behaviour.
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I would feed them in seperate bowls too so as to not cause any food related issues. I like their ped names :Luv:
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I would feed them in seperate bowls too so as to not cause any food related issues.
Can you expand on that please.
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Iv always thought it and also read in behaviourial books to make sure there is one of everything for each cat. And for items such as litter trays 1 per cat + 1.
If you had 2 toddlers eating from one plate they would feel competition to eat quick enough so that other doesnt get it all.
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I am afraid mine have always shared. Twin bowls, set into a base, side by side, and they seem to cope just fine. If they appeared to be fighting over food, I would of course, feed separately, but it has never been an issue over many generations of cats ...
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If you had 2 toddlers eating from one plate they would feel competition to eat quick enough so that other doesnt get it all.
I see your point.
Though, with regard to eating. I always make sure there is food in the bowl and I donot limit the food intake at all. I'm of the belief that an animal, at this young age, should be given as much food as it wants. So, if Reflex eats all the food before the Bengal even gets a sniff, the bowl would get refilled anyway, so the problem of the weaker cat (or slower eater) getting starved wont happen.
Having a single big bowl, rather than 2 small bowls is just more convenient, as I mix 50/50 Whiskas Kitten/Natures Menu Kitten.
I am afraid mine have always shared. Twin bowls, set into a base, side by side, and they seem to cope just fine. If they appeared to be fighting over food, I would of course, feed separately, but it has never been an issue over many generations of cats ...
One thing Ive noticed is that Reflex harrasses the Bengal a lot. Even when Bengal wants to goto the toilet, Reflex is on Bengal's case. However, the one time where he leaves him completely alone is when he is eating. Even after Reflex has finished eating and is wandering around aimlessly in the kitchen and Bengal is still eating, Reflex wont even touch the Bengal - the most he will do is stare at him from a distance. Wierd.
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not so weird, and also perhaps a hint that the bengal is not so 'bottom-of-the-pile' as you think! :evillaugh:
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...perhaps a hint that the bengal is not so 'bottom-of-the-pile' as you think! :evillaugh:
Aww. I wish that was so. But I feel the Bengal is hopelessly outgunned...for now.
Anyway, heres a nice one of them asleep, taken an hour ago:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/6c325e4d.jpg)
Although the Bengal looks awkward, I assure you he is asleep. His body is so long. This certainly wouldnt have been possible 48hrs ago.
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They look great and have assimilated much faster than my boys did when Stig came, who incidentally is at the vet for the chop and chip tomorrow :)
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They look great and have assimilated much faster than my boys did when Stig came, who incidentally is at the vet for the chop and chip tomorrow :)
How old is Stig? I had both my cats neutered when they were 3 months, while still at the breeders'. I paid for it, but it gave me some piece of mind that if anything went wrong, it would happen before I picked them up and the breeders would be the best people to deal with any complications.
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Approx 6 months he's a feral rescue but I have been putting it off for a bit and then he went and sprayed friday so was booked in pronto, my vet will only neuter at 6 months anyway but with Stigs unknown birthdate they said bring him in and they will examine him and decide then, but looking at him and the spraying inciident makes me think he's ready :)
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Approx 6 months he's a feral rescue but I have been putting it off for a bit and then he went and sprayed friday so was booked in pronto, my vet will only neuter at 6 months anyway but with Stigs unknown birthdate they said bring him in and they will examine him and decide then, but looking at him and the spraying inciident makes me think he's ready :)
Ouch. That is exactly what I was afraid of - spraying. My Bengal's father was spraying. I saw this first hand and it STANK!!! Also, although he was neutered, it took him a few weeks, till he stopped spraying, so it didnt stop immediately.
I always thought that spraying started at around 9 months +, so I'm surprised that he has started so early.
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I would also agree with separate food bowls, to make sure they are both eating a decent amount, and one isn't being pushed away. I always feed separate bowls to monitor their intake.
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The video definitely shows play fighting. I think they are going to be great friends.
I feed my two kitten separately from the adult cats. They share a water bowl and a bowl of dried food but I have always given them a small bowl of wet food each twice a day. This does mean they can both access the food, but they do not stick to their own bowls. When they were younger, Mitzi (always much smaller) would always want to check what was in Flynn's bowl. She would push under his chest and stand up, lifting his head up so she could take his place. He would (philosophically) move onto the bowl she had abandoned. If he tried to get into the bowl she was using, she would growl at him.
I think that was because she had almost starved as a kitten and was very possessive about food. Now (at 6 months) they happily change places between the two small bowls and happily share their water bowl and their bowl of dried food. They have always shared a litter tray and have no issues about one of the older cats using it too. They do like it clean though, Mitzi will cross her legs if she thinks it is too smelly but a giant litter tray with 4-5 inches of World's Best cat litter scooped out once a day suits them fine.
I hope you come up with a name for your Bengal kitten soon. Reflex is such a great name for the Mau. My mum names Mitzi after Mitzi Gaynor, the actress, so Flynn was called Flynn after Errol Flynn.
He is noisy (from the video). What about Growler?
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The video definitely shows play fighting. I think they are going to be great friends.
Yep, they have already calmed down a lot. In the first few hours, they couldnt get close to one another without fighting. Now they are a lot more relaxed in eachothers' company, especially Reflex. Reflex doesnt hiss or growl at all now, though the Bengal is very vocal and makes much noise. I think the noise being made by the Bengal (in the video) makes it appear to be worse than it really is. Now that I have watched them playing, Ive realised that Reflex doesnt actually try and hurt the Bengal. He just wrestles him to the ground, after which, he stands over him. The Bengal in retaliation, likes to bite Reflex's ears, but when I check for injuries there isnt a single scratch on Reflex's ears. The Bengal is very noisey and brings the house down when he is left alone in a room.
I hope you come up with a name for your Bengal kitten soon. Reflex is such a great name for the Mau. My mum names Mitzi after Mitzi Gaynor, the actress, so Flynn was called Flynn after Errol Flynn.
Yeah I'm narrowing it down now. I'd like to give him a name based on his personality. His pedigree name is MisterBengal and thats what I've been calling him.
I like Flynn. Flynn would be a cat that is very lean and thin and is can move very quickly, evading capture at every opportunity.
He is noisy (from the video). What about Growler?
Growler will be on my shortlist.
He also has big paws, so I'm thinking Bigfoot. :)
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Update time.
The Bengal has settled in nicely. He no longer hisses or growls when Reflex wrestles with him. Its all done very quietly now. I would say it took about 3-4 days.
Also, where initially, Reflex really hammered home the point that he is the more dominant, now he is a lot more relaxed and allows the Bengal to chase him and take the lead during their wrestling matches. However, from time to time, Reflex always like to show who is boss.
I might also add that the Bengal has picked up his speed. He isnt as slow anymore. Reflex tends to stand back and let the Bengal play with the toys. All Reflex wants to do now is wrestle with his new playmate - he shows very little interest in toys now.
And here are some piccies of the 2:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/0567a78a.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/699f722e.jpg)
Here is one of them sleeping. Reflex still maintains his dominance in that he doesnt let the Bengal sleep in his bed:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/5348553c.jpg)
And here is one of the Bengal on his own. He has very fine features, looking almost feminine:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/3c99fd39.jpg)
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:Luv: :Luv: glad the boys have settled down, has bengal got a name yet?
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I am pleased they have settled in together. I have the same cat acivity centre (in blue) and my two still try to sleep together in the little house, but it is far too small now!
Reflex has exactly the same shaped head as Flynn. Flynn's favourite brush is a 'Zoom Groom' (http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/cat_litter_litter_boxes/crombs_brushes/37479) and his faviourte toy is this cheeping mouse/bird which comes on elastic (http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/cat_toys/cat_dangler/13641) or separately (http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/cat_toys/mice/14455).
Still no name?
You must be delighted with them.
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:Luv: :Luv: glad the boys have settled down, has bengal got a name yet?
Glad you asked that question MM ... I don't like referring to him as "The Bengal" :rofl:
So pleased things have settled down and they certainly look very happy in each others company :Luv2:
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Flynn's favourite ... faviourte toy is this cheeping mouse/bird which comes on elastic (http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/cat_toys/cat_dangler/13641)
I bought that one on your recommendation. Reflex likes it too and chews on it until it is soaking wet, though he does prefer to chase the basic wagler toy
http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/cat_toys/cat_dangler/13638
I use that to go up and down the cat tree, so he gets to go up and down the tree, quickly - excellent exercise.
Still no name?
No name yet. Its between the following now:
Bengal
Bigfoot
His pedigree name is Mister Bengal.
I'm still undecided as he doesnt have any outstanding features, like Reflex had. And I dont want to give him a generic name like Max or Tigger.
You must be delighted with them.
Oh yes. Especially that they both keep eachother company.
Before Mr Bengal's arrival, Reflex used to follow me around EVERYWHERE. When I wasnt in, he used to go and sleep in his bed and wait for me. He wouldnt even goto the loo - he would wait for me to return and then would begin his day. Now that Mr. Bengal has arrived, he follows him around instead, though today he did leave Mr Bengal in the lounge and came and laid on my bed, while I was watching Lost. So, I can now get on with my day to day duties, without having to worry about a cat following me around.
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They look great together ;D
I reckon if his pedigree name is Mr Bengal, then thats his name ;D Can always be called Mister or Ben or Bengie ;D
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Im erring towards 'Bengal'.
I wont be having another Bengal, so it wont be a problem.
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I like Mr Bengal :)
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I think Mister Bengal is much nicer than just Bengal
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I think Mister Bengal is much nicer than just Bengal
Mr Bengal is a bit of a mouthful. Bengal is much easier.
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I think Mister Bengal is much nicer than just Bengal
Mr Bengal is a bit of a mouthful. Bengal is much easier.
Bengal is easier but not much different to a generic Max or Tigger ;)
He must have something outstanding or different about him other than his feet lol
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Id be very surprised if Mr Bengal didnt have something outstanding about him ;)
Nice to see the boys have settled down :)
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I think Mister Bengal is much nicer than just Bengal
Mr Bengal is a bit of a mouthful. Bengal is much easier.
Bengal is easier but not much different to a generic Max or Tigger ;)
Ive seen lots of cats on various forums called Max or Tigger. Ive never heard of a Bengal, whose name is Bengal. I think its unusual to call a cat by its breed name.
Another feature about the Bengal which is outstanding is his size. I know he is big for his age and will grow to a large size like his parents.
Oh, and his coat is very fuzzy, something that he shouldve grown out of at a much earlier age, but still hasnt.
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I think 'the fuzzies' will probably go, even if they have lasted longer than usual.
Mitzi (Siamese/Bengal cross) had 'the fuzzies' for quite a while but ended up with a sleek, silky, Siamese-like coat.
Sometimes cat's names 'morph' as you have them. Blacken was called Blacken because her and her sister were 'Blacken Decker' (not my idea!). She is usually called Blackie, or Black-black, or, at the moment, 'Podgy-one' because she has been stealing the kitten's food and developing middle-aged spread.
Mini is actually Minerva (Greek goddess of wisdom) because her sister was Nike (Greek goddess of victory). That came about because Nike was called Nike when I got her (not that the kids who named her knew about Nike being a goddes of victory).
Samwise ended up as Sam.
Liquorice ended up as Lickie.
So Mr Bengal may end up as Mister, Ben, Benny, Bengali or something entirely different.
What about Big Ben?
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Bengals only start to clear their coat around 12-14 weeks old. The coat and colour continues to clear until they are around 8 months old. Mr Bengal is therefore pretty normal in that his coat has not cleared properly yet :)
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Linda. I had the option of buying this Bengal:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/cd9bc24d.jpg)
Pic was taken at 11-12 weeks old. As you can see his coat is clear. No fuzzies. Is this abnormal?
Mr Bengal on the other hand, has a fuzzy, unclear coat. I chose him over the one in the pic as mine will grow up to be larger, which is something I liked.
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No the bengal in the pic is not abnormal. Hes certainly clearer but not what i would class fully clear. This is a pic of my girl Nova with what i class a cleared coat. She always had potential but did not clear her coat nor mature her colour until she as at least 8mths old.
Like everything their are shades of grey and degrees. Some bengals get more fuzzy than others but id certainly say that Mr Bengal is with the majority in that his coat will clear better as he develops.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w196/bengalbabe_2007/DSCF3168.jpg)
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What is Nova's colour called?
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Hi CC
Nova is classed as a brown spotted. There are varying shades and colouring of brown out there. The reason Nova is so light in comparison to many others could be the amount of snow in her ped lines and her silver parentage (her dad is silver). Shes quite buttermik coloured or as i call her my strawberry blonde ;)
Sunama - this link might help explain better than i can. As you can see the clearing and colouring process really begins as the kittens are due to go home and continues on.
http://www.bengal-katz.com/fuzzies.htm
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Yeah I would say strawberry blonde too, lovely :)
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So, today, I saw an unknown black and white, big, male moggie in my conservatory. It was meowing at me and wanted to make friends. I opened the door, stroked it and it seemed ok. Very friendly.
I had an idea. I thought it would be a good idea to grab my own kittens and see how they react to another cat.
I introduced the cat, one by one to my 2 kittens, opening the door only slightly, to prevent the cats from touching the foreign cat. Anyway, they responded to the big cat with lots of hisses and growls.
The big cat initially continued with his friendly meowing and then once he saw that Mr Bengal was doing the same thing as Reflex (growling), he backed away from the door.
Is this normal behaviour? Why is it that when Mr Bengal first arrived in my house, he was nice and friendly and open to other cats. Now he has become just like Reflex and seems very aggressive. Reflex will always be aggressive as that is his personality and part of his breed characteristic. He is also the alpha male in my house, hence might see it as his responsibility to ensure his territory is protected.
Is there any way to make my 2 cats more friendlier?
What I dont want, is in a year or 2, after they are fully grown, they escape (which is likely to happen at some stage), find a neighbourhood cat and rip it to pieces. Both cats are turning out to be very athletic and strong. The moggies that Ive seen on the street and today in my conservatory, are lethargic in comparison and wouldnt have the pace to outrun Reflex if they decided to run away. And Reflex is the sort to drag a foreign cat back into my garden where he and Mr Bengal can do whatever they wish.
Incidentally, although Mr Bengal is heavier and bigger than Reflex, Reflex is definitely the more dominant and is the ring leader. Sometimes, Reflex will encourage Mr Bengal to assist him in dragging out toys or unzip suitcases, so that he can get at the toys or get inside the suitcases.
This is what Reflex looked like 4 weeks ago:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/9277aa31.jpg)
But dont be fooled by the baby face. He is a terror and when he sees another cat, he gets very aggressive, just as in the video that I posted earlier in this thread. Both he and Mr Bengal have put on a bit of weight - their necks and bellies are both thicker. Mr Bengal is already looking substantially larger than Reflex.
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Protecting their territory from another cat is 100% normal. Also, as he was big, they may have been protecting themselves and each other from a perceived threat. All my cats, even the most sweet, growl and hiss at 'foreign' cats.
I would keep strange cats away. Firstly, your cats could catch something. What vaccinations did you decide to give them? Have they had FeLV vaccine? If they haven't, I would not let them out or another cat in until they had. Much more minor, they could catch fleas.
Also, if they feel their territory is threatened they may start to spray urine in order to mark their territory. You DO NOT want this. If they start spraying they are likely to continue, even after they are neutered.
So keep those other cats out of the house, and the conservatory.
Can we see more recent photos?
Also, my Flynn (Egyptian Mau) is rather sweet when compared to Mitzi, my Siamese/Bengal cross, not agggressive at all. But he does growl at 'foreign' cats.
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I would keep strange cats away. Firstly, your cats could catch something. What vaccinations did you decide to give them? Have they had FeLV vaccine? If they haven't, I would not let them out or another cat in until they had.
They've had all their vaccinations (by the breeders), including FeLV.
Much more minor, they could catch fleas.
I give them a spot-on flea treatment, so I should be alright on that account. I did notice though, in close-up that that cat looked filthy. Compared to my 2 house cats, that big cat looked like it had been rolling around in a few garbage bins.
Also, if they feel their territory is threatened they may start to spray urine in order to mark their territory. You DO NOT want this. If they start spraying they are likely to continue, even after they are neutered.
They were both neutered at 3 months of age. Is spraying a possibility even in cats which were neutered at such a young age?
Can we see more recent photos?
Sure, but I need to upload the latest ones.
Also, my Flynn (Egyptian Mau) is rather sweet when compared to Mitzi, my Siamese/Bengal cross, not agggressive at all. But he does growl at 'foreign' cats.
Hehehe. Mine are the opposite. Reflex is the aggressive one, constantly on-guard. Even the slightest noise will agitate him. Mr Bengal on the other hand, is more laid back. If he is sleeping, for example, and burgler walked into the empty house, he probably wouldnt bother moving. Reflex though, would be very worried.
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I don't know anything about maus but bengals don't mature until around 2 years so that might be when his territorial side comes out, it is a breed trait so you have to expect it, if it doesn't happen be greatful! :)
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That explains a lot - Zubin started chasing Thai just after his 2nd Birthday, and just after I had the gardne cat proofed.
Zeb has Zubin to keep him in line.
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I don't know anything about maus but bengals don't mature until around 2 years so that might be when his territorial side comes out, it is a breed trait so you have to expect it, if it doesn't happen be greatful! :)
I thought they are physically mature at 18 months, but I shall keep this in mind.
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not sure they ever mentally mature!! Vicky Halls (behaviourist guru!) was the one who told me two, oddly enough it coincided with a physical change in Tilly (my bengal) the bridge of her nose darkened, probably doesn't sound like much but it makes her look much more like an Asian leopard cat than she did before - looking forward to seeing new photos of the little ones!
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Its natural for them to be defensive, i doubt they will drag another cat home like a lion would an antelope!
2-3yrs is when cats socially mature, so many households live in harmony until this time :scared:
Any cat can spray regardless of sex and neutering status, its very common in cats that feel threatened in their home so dont encourage any visitors! The cat you mentioned may have been entire, he would also leave a nasty pong :evillaugh:
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thats a scary thought MM! Although we did have a live bat in last night
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i think he is definately too gorgeous to be called Bengal.
You can never be sure what size he is going to reach, regardless of the parents size - my Bengal girl Mellika is 7kg of pure muscle - (14 months old) and my boy Raffiki who everyone thought was going to be huge is 6kg (also 14 months old) my new snow Bengal Teeko who is 5 months old is already 3.2kg so I think he is defiately going to be a BIG boy. The fact that you had your boys neutered at such an early age could also impact on their eventual size. Also Mellika (Brown spotted) had the fuzzies until she was about 5 months old.
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The cat you mentioned may have been entire, he would also leave a nasty pong :evillaugh:
Ive noticed that unneutered male cats tend to have chubby cheeks. This foriegn cat, had chubby cheeks and though I didnt get a chance to see his testicles, my gut instinct was that he was not neutered. By showing him my own cats, I wanted to "socialise" them and also show the foriegn cat that there are cats present in this house, so he might want to stay away.
Obviously as my 2 get older, the danger to other cats increases.
I know you are saying that its unlikely that my cats will drag another cat around, but Reflex is very very aggressive. The breeder told me that his father was a little lonely in his cage, hence they introduced another cat to keep him company in his cage. His response was to drag this cat by the scruff of its neck, around the cage. His father was very lean, quite small, but was very very strong. I expect Reflex to be exactly like his father.
Reflex is actually afraidycat, but once he gets involved in something, he goes at it full tilt and doesnt back off. And I'm not just saying this because he is my cat. I'm saying it as I see it. The video that I posted of him forcefully playing with Mr Bengal sums up his personality exactly.
Mr Bengal is larger/heavier but his energy levels are not as high as Reflex and if a foreign cat came into the house/garden, Mr Bengal is the sort to chase it out and then leave it. Reflex might go "all the way".
Reflex's behaviour is partially down to his breed characteristic and genetics, but also perhaps by the way I treat him - ever since he started biting me, I started to play with him quite roughly, where I am more gentle with Mr Bengal, as I doubt that he would appreciate my rough play. He is a gentle cat.
It'll be interesting to see how they both grow up. I shall keep this thread alive and post regular updates.
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i think he is definately too gorgeous to be called Bengal.
You can never be sure what size he is going to reach, regardless of the parents size - my Bengal girl Mellika is 7kg of pure muscle - (14 months old) and my boy Raffiki who everyone thought was going to be huge is 6kg (also 14 months old) my new snow Bengal Teeko who is 5 months old is already 3.2kg so I think he is defiately going to be a BIG boy. The fact that you had your boys neutered at such an early age could also impact on their eventual size. Also Mellika (Brown spotted) had the fuzzies until she was about 5 months old.
Pictures please. :)
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blimey Sheryl 7kg!!!! I was told that Tilly was "at the top of what we'd like to see weight wise" at 5.5kg!!
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The fact that you had your boys neutered at such an early age could also impact on their eventual size.
Early neutering doesnt affect bone growth ;D
His dad was a stud cat full of hormones and living in a cage, behaviourally you will get a more agitated & aggressive cat!
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the story of the dad is a bit sad I think
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My 3 Bengals live with our 2 moggies no problems at all although the Bengals do stick together. We got Mellika and Raffiki at the same time and got Teeko 2 months ago, they accepted him almost immediately.
I take the Bengals out on harnesses and the other day the neighbours cat was in our garden and Mellika went mad hissing and growling at it so i think it is a territorial thing.
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I know Dawn she is a BIG Girl, she is tall aswell. The vets comment when he last saw her was "wow what a whopper" :rofl:
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:rofl:
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I know Dawn she is a BIG Girl, she is tall aswell. The vets comment when he last saw her was "wow what a whopper" :rofl:
You have got to show us a picture of Dawn, preferably standing next to something that we can all relate to, eg a CD, just to get an idea of her size.
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I dont know Dawn well enough to photograph her :rofl: :rofl: I will sort some photos out of Mellika at the weekend. :rofl:
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how did she know I was a big girl!!! :rofl:
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I maent to say Linda - Nova is looking stunning x
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Thank you Sheryl :Luv:
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Update Time:
Reflex @ 5 months old:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/e93858ab.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/60e89ca9.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/25beb4cf.jpg)
Mr. Bengal @ 4 months old:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/2c47a50e.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/8fb47d99.jpg)
And both of them on the cat tree:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/ca795683.jpg)
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They are gorgeous. I hope you are really enjoying sharing your home with them.
Mitzi (Bengal/Siamese mix) and Flynn (Egyptian Mau) are now 7.5 and 8 months. They are still best pals. In fact, I do not know if I would cope with Mitzi without Flynn. She needs company and the few times Flynn has not been there (when he was being neutered, when we were told to keep her separate after she had been neutered) she yowled whenever I left her. However, she loves Flynn even more than she loves us!
Here are some pictures of her and Flynn together.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj89/moiramassey/mitziandflynnonthebed.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj89/moiramassey/mitziflynnrocker.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj89/moiramassey/mitziflynngrass.jpg)
And a great recent picture of Flynn in all his glory.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj89/moiramassey/flynnposing.jpg)
The picture showing them outside is because I have catproofed the garden.
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Aah yes, having 2 cats allows them to keep eachother company. Before Mr. Bengal arrived, Reflex used to sit high up in his bed, with a really long face. Once Mr. Bengal arrived, all that stopped. If Mr. Bengal went missing, Reflex would miss a lot, however, I dont feel the same would be true, if Reflex were taken away.
Moira how long ago were they neutered?
I ask this, because Flynn, is looking like he has put on weight (around the waist) and Egyptian Maus unfortunately are prone to getting a little fat, after they have been neutered - especially the males.
Ive noticed that Reflex is putting on weight around his bottom, however, he is still just as fast, if not more so. He can jump higher now than he has in the past. I will cut down dranstically on his food, once he has stopped growing - around 12 to 13 months.
With regards to catproofing the garden: are you confident enough to leave the cats in the garden, unsupervised? How much did it all cost?
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Its not the act of neutering that makes a fat cat its too much food!
If you search cat proofing from the home page you'wll find lots of threads with pics. Roz sells one system so you can PM her for more info on prices ;D
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Flynn was neutered at 5.5 months. He is not fat. Photos give the wrong impression if you think that. Don't forget that Egyptians Maus have a loose flap of skin that runs from their abdomen to their leg, apparently to help with high speed running (like a cheetah). This means the body profile is different to most other cats. I do think he may grown into a good-sized cat and I agree that adult male Egyptian Maus are solid rather than svelte. Mitzi takes afer her Siamese dad and has a very oriental body shape.
The catflap is open 24/7, including when I go to work. We are three weeks in and I am very happy. The cats love it, even the older ones who previously went into other people's gardens. They love the fact no other cats can get in. The actual catproofing cost £2500. It is a 30m x 10m garden, one of the biggest Securacat have ever done. Unfortunately it cost me another £3500 to have proper fences built, to cut down three trees that could not be catrpoofed and to put two gates across the drive to make a 'catlock'.
More photos of Flynn. On the first one you can see the flap of skin very clearly.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj89/moiramassey/flynn4.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj89/moiramassey/Flynn1.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj89/moiramassey/flynn2.jpg)
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30m x 10m is certainly a substantial area. The cost involved was also significant. I'm certainly going to have to think about getting my garden cat proofed as Reflex in particular, seems to want to go outside (sitting on the window ledge and watching the birds, trees and plants). Mr. Bengal doesnt seem too bothered.
Thanks for the info.
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30m x 10m is certainly a substantial area. The cost involved was also significant. I'm certainly going to have to think about getting my garden cat proofed as Reflex in particular, seems to want to go outside (sitting on the window ledge and watching the birds, trees and plants). Mr. Bengal doesnt seem too bothered.
Thanks for the info.
I was very lucky and won the kit that Roz aka Secur-a-cat kindly donated to the Purrs Xmas auction, I think the standard secur-a-cat kit retails for around the £300 mark so if you have existing fencing and someone that can help you to put the system up then it needn't be ridiculously expensive. The standard kit covers 150 linear ft, my garden is around 45ft long by around 30ft wide (the house forms the 4th edge of the catproofing). My boys love playing outside and I love the fact that they can experience the pleasures of being outdoors but in complete safety - no cars, dogs, other bully cats, nasty humans or people trying to steal them - just pure outdoor fun :)
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I know I spent a lot of money on catproofing the garden, but it was worth every penny. They love it. I love it.
The kits are excellent. Definitely the way to go if you have the time and someone to capable of doing the work. It is under £300 for each kit. Most suburdan gardens are a lot smaller than 30m x 10m!
I have to say, Flynn (Eqypitain Mau) was desperate to be outside while Mitzi (Siamese/Bengal cross) wasn't too fussed. They both love it now they can play outside.
Sideshow showing the catproofing.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj89/moiramassey/th_kittylock1.jpg) (http://s270.photobucket.com/albums/jj89/moiramassey/?action=view¤t=190aa1b8.pbw)
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Its been a while since I updated this thread, so I thought I would do so now with some new pics.
The pics were taken a few months ago. The newest pics are still on my camera, but I shall post what I have:
Mr Bengal:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/MrBengalaged7monthsinkitchensink.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/MrBengalaged7monthssittinginthekitc.jpg)
Reflex relaxing on the chair:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/Reflexaged8monthslayinginthekitchen.jpg)
The 2 of them playing fighting games:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/ReflexandBengalaged9and8monthsfight.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/ReflexandBengalaged10and9monthsfigh.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/ReflexandBengalaged10and9monthsf-1.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/ReflexandBengalaged10and9monthsf-2.jpg)
And after all that activity:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/ReflexandBengalaged9and8monthsinbed.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/ReflexandBengalaged8and7monthsoncat.jpg)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/sunama123/ReflexandBengalaged8and7monthson-1.jpg)
More pics to come.
Mr Bengal is now a lot larger and fatter.
Reflex's bones have grown but his waist is thinner. He is remarkably thin and lean, while Mr Bengal is cuddly.
Most people actually like Mr Bengal more, as he is more approachable and bold. New visitors will be approached by Mr Bengal, while Reflex remains guarded.
Reflex remains my favourite though.
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What absolute darlings :Luv:and those markings are just fab,i love the one of them sleeping together,it would make a fantastic picture :Luv:
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Lovely pictures of two beautiful cats.
I am glad they are such wonderful companions to each other.
Mitzi and Flynn are equally happy!
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They're both stunning :Luv2:
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Moira do you have any newer photos of your Egyptian Mau?
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None from this month but there are these from December.
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj89/moiramassey/flynn_dec_2008_1.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj89/moiramassey/flynn_dec_2008_2.jpg)
November 08
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj89/moiramassey/f_m_23_12_08_1.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj89/moiramassey/f_m_23_12_08_2.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj89/moiramassey/flynn23_12_08_2.jpg)
And the best tummy shot
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj89/moiramassey/flynn1-1.jpg)
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(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj89/moiramassey/flynn_dec_2008_2.jpg)
Now that is what I call flexible.
What food do you tend to feed him and what are his favourites?
I find that Mr Bengal tends to eat a lot of Orijen (dry food) and pretty much any wet food. He isnt fussy and loves to eat.
Reflex is a lot more picky. He wont eat the dry food and the wet food he has these days is mostly HiLife Poultry. Because he always has food in his bowl, he is a little spoilt when it comes to food, so even turning his nose up at Natures Menu. To this end, he is about the leanest, slimmest cat I've ever seen, hence, I'm not worried at this stage of him getting fat. Mr Bengal on the other hand is a big cat - he is still growing, but IMO is getting too fat. My plan is to curtail his food intake in about 6 months when he stops growing.
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Flynn is a real food thief (meat, fish and vegetables) and he eats his kills (not that there is anything much left for him to kill in the [catproofed] garden). I changed from Science Diet to Orijen just over a month ago and I think that is better for him (and the other three). He had lost interest in Hill Science Diet pouches and I am now feeding a small meal of Applaws in the evenings, which all four of them love - Flynn and Mitzi mob me as I open the can. Flynn is very fit - he does get a lot of exercise in the garden as well as running around the house. Mitzi is the tubby one - maybe its her half bengal side. His coat has become very thick over winter - I am not looking forward to the snowstorm when spring comes as he is 99% white!
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The weird thing is that over the Winter, Mr Bengal's coat has definitely become thicker and he, fatter. Reflex's coat on the other hand looks exactly like it did 6 months back. I also feel he has become thinner.
In terms of meat content, I find that Applaws is a little too expensive for what it actually is. Natures Menu offers the highest meat content of any cat food and I believe it is cheaper than Applaws. HiLife is good value for money, too.
From the sounds of it, you are rationing the food to your cats (ie. they dont have it on tap). If this is the case, have you tried giving them Natures Menu? They will probably lap it up as they will be hungry when feeding time comes, so wont be fussy. Natures Menu is slightly cheaper than Applaws and has higher meat content.
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Sunama - the company that makes Natures Menu have gone into administration, so you might want to start sourcing alternatives for it.
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No, they have access to Orijen all the time. That approach works well up to now but I will need to watch Mitzi. The Applaws is rationed due to expense and because I have now doubt that Mitzi and Flynn would eat it unti they couldn't cram down another morsel - they get one 156g can between the four of them. The older two even walk away from the Applaws when they have had enough - Flynn and Mitzi finish any they leave.
I tried Berties Nature's Harvest but they wouldn't eat the chicken (smells overwhelmingly of chicken livers) and picked at the fish variety.
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Sunama - the company that makes Natures Menu have gone into administration, so you might want to start sourcing alternatives for it.
Damn.
Thanks for that info.
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Natures Menu is slightly cheaper than Applaws and has higher meat content.
But isnt as tasty :drool;