Just got bk from the vet and ........

[Ela]

How is Makosi today?  What time are you at the vets?

[CurlyCatz]

i dont think it was purposely meaning that gill but as i metioned before many vets will openly admit they arent so good at palpations as others they know, a female vet i worked with was EXCEPTIONALLY good at that and my boss always got her to feel for thyroids etc.  I guess more experienced vets would also be generally better at it than new grads etc.

I see in the link i gave that cambridge vet uni is mentioned so perhaps if anyone felt inclined they could send an email and enquire further, perhaps they are the only ones who stock this test and bloods have to be sent there ??

I was just thinking about this more logically and wandering why it wouldnt be more readily available and the conclusion i have come to is that it would mainly be in the breeding world that it would be used and most experienced breeders can most often tell without tests normally also i suppose it would all add to the cost of breeding so less profit to be made whereas they could just "wait and see", however i could see them using it if their pet was suspected of repeatedly falling pregnant but then the pregnancys never advancing or something like that.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Yes it is and the last one very interesting cos the implied thought is that most vets are not good enough to do this !

[CurlyCatz]

yes but unsure as of yet if these can be sourced in uk ?  but very good to know for future ref !

[Desley (booktigger)]

That is really interesting Lynn.

[CurlyCatz]

question officially answered.

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1439-0531.2006.00736.x?journalCode=rda

[CurlyCatz]

hey i just had a google and found this..will need to look into it further

DIAGNOSIS OF PREGNANCY

The owner may notice that the unspayed female is rounder than usual and that her nipples have become prominent (called “pinking up”).   This may not be noticeable until well into advanced pregnancy depending on how observant the owner is, how large the litter is etc. There are several ways to confirm feline pregnancy:

Blood test:  The Witness Pregnancy Test is approved for both canine and feline use and can be performed in about 15 minutes at your vet’s office. She must be about 30-35 days into the pregnancy for this.
 
Ultrasound:  Ultrasound can readily confirm pregnancy at approximately 22-25 days of pregnancy but is not readily available in all animal hospitals.
 
Radiology: At about 45 days of pregnancy, the kittens will have mineralized their skeletons and be visible on an x-ray. This is the only procedure that reliably can determine how many kittens to expect.
 
Palpation: some veterinarians are talented enough to feel the developing kittens between days 17 and 25.

[CurlyCatz]

really amanda, could you find out more about that for us please as you are in a position to do so.  It makes sense that there could be ie testing oestrogen etc levels.
Im still sure that they could test the equivelent of hcg in humans.

[Amanda (mad4moggies)]

I also am not totally sure but i have a feeling that there isn`t. There is a blood test that can show whether a cat is spayed as far as i know but not pregnant.

[CurlyCatz]

i been away today so just saw the question.  I agree that really there must be a test infact i could near swear there would be one but where you send the blood off to etc i do not know...ive never been personally involved what that but it is hard to believe there isnt such a thing.  I know in horses they can even run tests on the colostrum which will basically tell how soon labour is going to be (but then again that was a billionare in abu dhabi i seen getting that done on his horses  )

[Desley (booktigger)]

I am sure when I have looked into that Hippy the answer has been no, but i could be wrong. It woudl certainly be cheaper and easier than a scan though.

[Hippykitty]

Lynn, is there some kind of blood/urine test for pregnancy in cats, as in humans? If so, surely this would be cheaper that a scan.

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

Its one thing after another
Now Today she seems to have the runs 
shes been 3times today
she hasnt eat nothing different to any of the others 

[Desley (booktigger)]

Good luck for WEd, I do hope you can get an answer, and I agree with Lynn, if they still can't tell for definite on Wed, then I would book her in

[CurlyCatz]

there is no need to worry if the cat is 100% well in herself.  If she had an infection etc she'd be febrile (high temp) and prob off her food perhaps polydipsic (drinking more) amongst various other symptoms. 

get the other vet to have a good feel..if he/she is certain they can feel a kitten(s) then fine but I think it would probably be unlikely 2 vets would be unsure bearing in mind she'll be a few days further on when you go to the 2nd vet.  so if the second vet cannot say with great certainty that they can feel a kitten then just go and get her spayed as you said the other day you were going to do.  If the 2nd vet thinks they can feel a kitten(s) which in their opinion are normal sized for estimated gestation then carry on with the pregnancy as you had planned. 

Many animals can carry a pregnancy with foetuses that have died without any ill effects.

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

i dont have to pay for a consultation as they said they will b booking her in as a pre op check which is free of charge and they said they wouldnt charge anything for simply feeling a cats tummy to c if shes pregnant .

the thing is u have worried me a lot be saying there could b a dead kitten inside her and that could be stopping her from coming into season
that is why i thought the scan would b a good idea

if a cat does have a dead kitten inside her then wat do they do ???
a spay and remove it the same time or wat???????

[CurlyCatz]

I didnt realise it was Ela who gave you the vouchers, infact i'd missed all the bit about vouchers till you mentioned it running out.  Looking at it logically if you go to another vet you'll be the price of a consult on top of the scan fee. Personally if a second vet cant feel anything conclusive esp as you think she's closer to 5 wks,  i wouldnt feel a need to spend £50 on a scan and i'd use the voucher for her spay then donate the £50, or if not donate it then keep it to pay for the kitten neuter if indeed she goes on to have one 

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

Im defo taking her to the other vets weds
and if i get "  i cant be sure"
then she will have to have a scan to get it over n done with
coz i h8 not knowing

lynn : i cant afford the 50 odd quid  but imo its quite important i know why my cat aint come in season
as earlier u were even saying there might be a kitten dead inside her

as for the cpl voucher
Ela said yesterday that she would even give one to a millionare and wouldnt mind

thing is b4 shes spayed
she either needs a scan to make sure theres nothing there
or she needs to give birth
and buy paying for the scan id not be able to pay an extra 47 quid for the spay
so its a good job  do have the voucher
no offence but i said yesterday in one of my posts me and the oh was thinking of donating summit to ela cpl as a thanks for the 3 vouchers
plus everytime the cpl is in asdas collecting money or food we always give them some food and cat litter
so its not as if we take and give nothing back .

[Michelle (furbabystar)]

i WOULD GO FOR THE SCAN.

Cant believe vet cant tell if she is pregnant or not

[CurlyCatz]

forever are you going to take her to be scanned do you think ?

I'm not sure if they extend the dates on your voucher or not but if you can afford £52 for a scan does that mean you can afford the spay aswell and perhaps save the cpl abit of money ? (if it was a cpl voucher, im not sure what type you said it was)

[CurlyCatz]

i agree with ela, very unusual to feel at 2 wks as the uterine horns barely showing rounded swellings then but i guess the vet would have had a 50 % chance of giving the right answer 

[ccmacey]

Oh well she was pregnant anyways, but my aunt didn't keep the kittens cos she would worry about them going to good homes. But with her other female cat she did let her have the kittens, I suppose it stays in the conscience.

[Ela]

When my aunts cat was about 2 weeks the vets could feel them so I dont know why your vet cant.

To be honest I think the vet may have been feeling a bit of wind, as it would be extremely unusual for a vet to tell by feel at 2 weeks.

[ccmacey]

When my aunts cat was about 2 weeks the vets could feel them so I dont know why your vet cant. Id say take her to another vets as if she isnt pregnant she needs to be done soon.

[CurlyCatz]

i know some vets who openly admit to not being good at say palpating an enlarged thyroid gland etc so i guess it might be the same as abdo palps but im sure if it was clear cut they'd have felt it...but hey i could be very wrong

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

fanks

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Not vialble , yes that would be dead 

I think that is good to try a different vets, good luck

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

i just rang the other vets , i can take her weds morning
they said theres no reason why a vet shouldnt be able to tell either way at 5 weeks gone

also they said if i wanted a scan its £52 pound
so it aint too  bad i guess is it .

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

wats that mean viable??????? dead????????????????????????????????????????

sorry im a bit thick

[CurlyCatz]

i just had another thought, if she has been pregnant but the kitten hasnt been viable then she may be reabsorbing / mumifying and that could be why she's not back into season.

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

True

i think im gonna get one more vet to have a feel thou

the vet i saw today said as soon as i make the decision they will spay her the vvery next day for me

the voucher runs out this week aswell

[CurlyCatz]

I think your vet has been pretty fair, he has examined but cannot commit himself to giving you a 100% clear cut yes or know answer.  The only other thing i think you could do is find out if your vet or the other practice has an ultrasound machine and get that done.  wasnt she meant to be 4 or 5 wks if she was pregnant (sorry if i have that wrong) i'd have expected the vet to be more confident if she was but as he said there may be only 1 or 2 kittens and she may have an amount of abdominal fat etc which can pad her out or pehaps her bowel was full of faeces aswell and it can be abit hard to differenciate.

apart from the ultra sound theres the xray option, a one off x ray doesnt ever seem to harm kittens (i think in humans the main concern is for the foetuses reproductive organs which in cats not an issue as they should be neutered) but then that would mean a sedative to xray and i dont know if thats abit much where as you could prepare anyway and wait another couple of week,

[Ela]

She still cant give me an answer

Did you answer you own question a couple of days ago.?

Thanks Ela  yea i dont mind admitting im wrong when i am wrong ,and yes if the vet still cant feel anything then she will defo be spayed this week

[Cheesecat]

Is there not some kind of test or scan they can do (I am not sure if that would be really expensive though?)

I would expect a vet to be able to give you that kind of info!

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

She still cant give me an answer
this is getting stupid now
she said if she was pregnant she is carrying a small amount of kittens and could be hiding them
her final word were " i cant tell u yes or no because i really can not be sure "

i said to my oh about taking her to a different vets for a second opinon
the other vets is much further away and id need a taxi there and back

what do u guys think?

should i get a second opinion now ?

is it normal for a vet to still not know ??????

 no one understands i just need to know now !
i need to get things ready if she was pregnant
and if she aint i just want to get her spayed and get it over with now