Topic: Struvite crystals - again!! (Read 6792 times)

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #20 on:** February 20, 2007, 22:47:49 PM »

Fingers crossed for him

Millys Mum · « **Reply #19 on:** February 20, 2007, 17:32:38 PM »

Quote from: berties mum on February 19, 2007, 13:00:40 PM

I plan to do a ph test later in the week to see if they're making a difference

Cystaid dont alter the ph of the urine, they are glucosamine which has been found to help the health of the bladder wall. Some bladders are short of things called GAGs, cant remember what that stands for but Cystaid can help replace them. I think GAGs are mentioned in the info sheet on FABs website www.fabcats.org

Glad to hear Berties getting on ok

berties mum · « **Reply #18 on:** February 20, 2007, 10:48:44 AM »

Thanks - it is really worrying and I think Bertie's quality of life would be greatly improved by not having me hovering by the litter tray whenever he's using it!

He's still really well in himself though, which is some consolation. I figure if there was anything really nasty going on, he'd be feeling really poorly by now.

smudgepickles · « **Reply #17 on:** February 19, 2007, 22:45:01 PM »

Lets hope they do make the difference for the poor little one not only to make him better but to ease your worry too

fingers crossed and toes

xx

berties mum · « **Reply #16 on:** February 19, 2007, 13:00:40 PM »

Aw, thanks for asking - he's fine at the moment. The tablets only arrived on Thursday as we had postal problems locally because of snow, so he's only been on them a few days. I plan to do a ph test later in the week to see if they're making a difference - I'll keep you posted!

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #15 on:** February 18, 2007, 11:49:59 AM »

How is he?

berties mum · « **Reply #14 on:** February 12, 2007, 16:00:24 PM »

Hi all,

Aw, thanks for all your kind thoughts for Bertie. The vet has been totally rubbish and despite saying on Feb 1 that he'd speak to the food company re. other possible prescription diets and get back to me, I haven't heard a thing.

In answer to some of your questions - when I put glucose in brackets, I was just giving an example of some of the other stuff that was tested for and that was normal - he never had a problem with glucose though - it was just that the vet said it was odd for his ph level to be so high when everything else he tested for was normal. He said that other than the ph level, he found nothing abnormal in Bert's urine at all. He says he's never seen any blood on the stick at all, despite analysing Bertie's urine three times, and admits that's not normal - especially as the day before Bertie was first seen by him for a urine analysis, I'd rushed him to the emergency vet because he was weeing blood.

And yep, I'm 100% sure he doesn't have access to other food - he's not much of an outdoor cat and never strays further than my garden, which is about 18 feet long, so I can always see him from my window when he's out. He doesn't have access to outdoors when I'm not home. Only one neighbour has a cat and has confirmed that he doesn't feed Bertie any of his cat's food, and now that he knows Bertie is ill, he wouldn't feed him even if Bertie did turn up there. He's never killed anything in his life so definitely no mice or birds affecting his diet.

Still waiting for the Cystaid to arrive (slow deliveries here due to heavy snow last week), but keeping him on the Royal Cannin Urinary S/O in the meantime. I'm worried sick about him but he seems perfectly fine in himself and seems to be urinating normally - I think he's a bit sick of me lurking in the background whenever he goes near his litter tray though

Thanks again everyone for your concern, I really appreciate it so much.

Amanda (mad4moggies) · « **Reply #13 on:** February 08, 2007, 01:16:44 AM »

In your original post you put that at one point Bertie`s urine had returned to normal apart from the pH. Then in brackets you put glucose level. Did he actually have glucose in his urine at one point then?

It sounds like the vet has done a urine dipstick test which has not shown up any blood. This seems strange as usually with crystals you do get at least some blood due to the irritation they will do to the bladder lining. I agree that maybe a second opinion is needed. Did he say exactly what else he found on the urine stick e.g protein etc?

gia · « **Reply #12 on:** February 07, 2007, 21:01:29 PM »

Are you completely sure that Bertie does not have access to any other food ?

Even birds or mice in his doet could affect things.

Gia
x

smudgepickles · « **Reply #11 on:** February 07, 2007, 16:14:49 PM »

Quote from: Desley (booktigger) on February 06, 2007, 08:26:06 AM

I would be getting a second opinion from a different vet, I wouldnt be happy just having him on prescription food and waiting - have you tried the Hills prescription diets for it? I cant' actually think of anything off hand that helps reduce the PH level of urine, but if you search on google you should find something.

Im afraid I feel the same......its a long time for poor Bertie to have had these levels and I really would consider a second opinion im sure you must be worried sick (( HUGS))

Hope he starts to get better soon keep us informed of his progress

xxx

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #10 on:** February 07, 2007, 15:44:28 PM »

Hi again,

sorry we were at cross purposes! I meant that the acidifiers Methigel or Uroeze shouldnt be given without approval from your vet, I don't know whether you need approval to use Cystaid (which isnt an acidifier), but its probably best to talk to your vet anyway as you were going to do.

berties mum · « **Reply #9 on:** February 07, 2007, 14:45:26 PM »

Hi there,

Thanks ever so much for the advice. I've just ordered some Cystaid from the internet and will contact my vet to let him know what I'm doing. The vet did mention the "alkaline tide" effect to me, but we've ruled that out from the timing of the samples being taken ... he's a real mystery, my Bertie

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #8 on:** February 07, 2007, 13:55:42 PM »

Hi Berties Mum, the acidifiers you can buy on the internet I don't think require a prescription, but I think you have to have your vets approval before use (they can OVER-acidify the urine, causing the opposite type of stones -oxalate) - and they musnt be used at the same time as the prescription diets.

One thing, when have you collected the urine samples from Bertie? Its just if they are collected within a few hours of him having eaten, the urine can be more alkaline than normal because eating causes a so called 'alkaline tide' - so that the tests would indicate an alkaline urine when in fact that may be only a temporary situation. Just a thought.

berties mum · « **Reply #7 on:** February 07, 2007, 10:16:41 AM »

Hi all,

Thanks for all your replies and sorry for not responding sooner - PC on the blink yesterday!

No, the vet hasn't sent Bertie's urine away for testing - he does the analysis in the surgery and the strip has lots of different tests on it. He says there can't be any infection as there aren't any traces of blood in his urine - don't know whether that sounds right to everyone. He's also felt Bertie's bladder and says he can't feel any blockages or urine retention, but I'm not sure whether that rules out the possibility of large crystals stuck in there somewhere.

I think I'm going to get a second opinion but also buy some acidifying tablets from the internet, and perhaps do a bit of ph testing myself at home! I'm really not happy leaving him on the prescription food alone when it clearly isn't working ....

Amanda (mad4moggies) · « **Reply #6 on:** February 06, 2007, 21:03:03 PM »

Has the vet sent the urine away? I would definately ask them to send a sample to an external laboratory for analysis and culture and sensitivity in case there is an underlying bacterial infection. If there is one then it will need to be treated by the relevant antibiotic.

If this is all normal, apart from any crystals if they find any, then it might be worth trying Cystease or Cystaid as it works to improve the lining of the bladder in cats with urinary problems. It doesn`t mean that they will never get problems again but has been shown to improve the situation. You can get either of these from your vets and although you would want them to know that Bertie is on it it is not a prescription drug so can be bought online at various sites.

Good luck with him!

Ela · « **Reply #5 on:** February 06, 2007, 08:33:49 AM »

Quote

I would be getting a second opinion from a different vet

I agree it is a good idea to seek the advice of another vet, it is a worry that it is being allowed to go on so long.

Quote

He then x rayed her and she had a large crystal in her bladder

One of our fosterers cats had numerous large crystals stuck in his bladder wall, fortunately with surgery all were removed but still occasionally Hank has problems and last year he also has a penectomie.

Desley (booktigger) · « **Reply #4 on:** February 06, 2007, 08:26:06 AM »

I would be getting a second opinion from a different vet, I wouldnt be happy just having him on prescription food and waiting - have you tried the Hills prescription diets for it? I cant' actually think of anything off hand that helps reduce the PH level of urine, but if you search on google you should find something.

Maddiesmum · « **Reply #3 on:** February 05, 2007, 17:26:41 PM »

Has the vet actually sent the crystals away for testing? The reason I am asking is my neighbour's dog, Rosie, had the same problem. Our vet put her on the diet food and the problem got worse. He then x rayed her and she had a large crystal in her bladder. She had to go in to have it removed and the vet sent it off to test to make sure it was struvite (which is apparently the most common one but there are others). He said he may have to give Rosie diuretics to treat the condition. SHe is back on the diet and my neighbour has to take a week's sample of wee in on Wednesday to make sure it is cleared now. Might be worth asking your vet?

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #2 on:** February 05, 2007, 15:03:08 PM »

hmmm, makes you wonder about prescription diets for this condition doesnt it? Anyway, sorry to hear about Bertie's continuing problem. I wonder if your vet has considered urine acidifiers? These are put in their regular food and maybe they would work better than the prescription diet - its a thought. There are 2 that I know of Methigel in gel form, or Uroeze in powder form.

Other than that, a diet with a high meat content, no grain, cereal or vegetable content, close to what they would naturally eat, would be worth a try.

berties mum · « **Reply #1 on:** February 05, 2007, 13:43:26 PM »

Hi all,
Some of you might remember me posting on here a few weeks back about my cat Bertie's struvite crystal problems. It's taken a turn for the worse and I could really do with some more advice!
Bertie first became ill the week before Christmas, when I noticed blood in the litter tray and took him to first the emergency vet and then to our normal practice. Our vet confirmed from a sample of Bert's urine that he had struvite crystals and explained that a high alkaline level in the bladder causes the crystals to form. He prescribed Royal Cannin S/O urinary pouches and said these should bring Bertie's urine back within the acidic ph range.
The next time we visited on January 4, the vet expressed surprise that although everything else in Bertie's urine had returned to normal (glucose level, hydration level etc), his ph level had not altered at all and remained at 7.5. He said perhaps we just needed longer for Bertie to adjust to the new food and told me to bring him back on February 1.
So we went back with another urine sample last week, and the ph level has still not come down AT ALL! The vet is absolutely baffled - we ruled out the possibility of the sample being contaminated in some way, and I know for a fact that Bertie has eaten nothing except the prescription food since before Christmas. The vet says he has never known the food to NOT work before, and while Bertie's urine has such a high ph, the crystals will not dissolve and he is in permanent danger of a blocked/ ruptured bladder.
The vet told me to take Bertie home and continue to feed the prescription food, and that he would contact the food and drug companies to see if there was anything else Bertie could have, but he seemed quite defeatist and didn't seem to think there was anything that would work better than the Royal Canin food SHOULD have worked.
Sorry for the long post, but I'm really panicking about how on earth to bring Bertie's ph level down and get him out of danger. All ideas on why it remains so high, and/or how to reduce it, would be VERY gratefully received!

Author Topic: Struvite crystals - again!! (Read 6792 times)