Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat Health & Behaviour => Health & Behaviour General => Topic started by: Lolarag on April 15, 2014, 06:04:11 AM
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Hello all,
Not sure if any of you remember me, but before Christmas I posted about my cat Ragdoll, who had been hit by a car and had suffered various injuries along with nerve damage that affected her toileting habits. To cut a long story short, about a month ago she was given the "all-clear" so to speak - jaw, pelvis, etc was healed, including her toileting. She still will not empty her bladder completely but she empties it so that there's literally only a tiny bit left in there. She never lets it get to a dangerous size.
Anyway, this morning I was walking downstairs with her to take her outside. She had been scratching at my bedroom door so I presumed she needed the toilet. On the way there she suddenly stopped dead in her tracks, would not budge at all. I thought it was strange but continued walking downstairs thinking she would follow me. A few moments after I walked away she started meowing loudly and I noticed she'd done a small wee (not enough to constitute a full wee but definitely more than if she had "leaked"). She was very vocal, also purring very loudly and wanting a lot of fuss off me. I don't understand this at all. Even while she was recovering she never had any accidents in corners or anything, let alone stopping dead in the middle of the floor to wee. She has never leaked and as I said just now, I don't think she leaked in this instance because A: the wee was too big and B: she stopped like she knew what she was doing/what was happening, though she did not try to scratch over it like she would normally do. There has been one incident before where she was desperate to go to the toilet, and when I carried her she weed down me. I presumed this was because my arms or something were putting too much pressure on her full bladder. Does anyone know what this means? The healing process won't have just reversed, would it? I understand that full nerve damage healing can take up to 6 months, could this be part of it healing further? Would really appreciate any advice or speculations. Thanks guys!
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Suspect that at times her nerves are not reacting fast enough, so effectively an accident and she wants you to love her although this would normally be the case after using the tray.............she does have trays doesnt she?
I think a vet visit would be useful or even just a phone call.
Doesnt sound like cystius un less she has no trays and then it could be.
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Hi Gill,
She hasn't had trays for a while as she has started going outside again. I would have preferred to have kept her as an indoor cat since the accident but she would feel like a caged animal, it wouldn't be fair on her.
I actually took her to the vets today and they diagnosed it as stress related sterile cystitis with a slightly thickened bladder. She was given an anti-inflammatory injection, and I was given Cystophan (to be given once a day) and Loxicom (To be started Friday night). She has had her Cystophan for the day, and I thought all was ok. She just woke up and ran around wildly in the room, acting like something had scared her. I noticed that as she was running she was weeing, like she couldn't control it but knew it was happening. Is this a normal side effect? When will the Cystophan kick in? Is it possible she's becoming incontinent, or is this what happens with cystitis?
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no clue about side affects, might be worth giving the vets a call - is there a reason she can't have a tray inside as well as going out? my lot do sometimes they just don't fancy getting their feet wet!
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My mum doesn't really want litter trays in the house unless they're absolutely necessary, and when we have had one it's had to have been in my bedroom which you can imagine isn't the most pleasant thing... :/
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They are absolutely necessary !
And in this case veery urgently needed cos she knows she has knowhere to go and cant get out in time. Also the signs of cystitus have been missed for how long? and this is because you have no tray.
I have a tray in bedroom, in bathroom and kitchen and used to have one in lounge but they stopped using it.
Cats are very clean animals and you are forcing her to be dirty which will be making her stress worse
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I don't think I have missed any signs because she has never had an accident in the house before, and she always has access to outside. I am considering getting one again, but I don't feel it's necessary for a cat that is in good health.
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but she's not in good health, certainly at the moment.
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Which is why she is now on a litter tray again. I feel like a bad owner now, but I honestly believed she was well when I took the litter tray and she tended to go outside rather than use it anyway.
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I'm sorry Lola, you must be feeling really 'got at' at the moment :( No-one thinks you are a bad owner, you wouldn't have come on here for advice if you were :hug:
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Thanks Slugsta - just really didn't realise that you should have litter trays even if your cat does go out. She's fine so far tonight, fingers crossed it stays that way :) I will keep you all updated x
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I shouldn't have spoke so soon, she just had another accident :( Does anyone know when the cystophan will kick in? My vet said it will almost always work so I don't understand why she is still having accidents. Does it just take a while to start working? I just gave her her second pill after the accident.
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I have a cat who has been on a maintenance dose of one Cystease - another bladder supplement - on alternate days for years now, following several bouts of cystitis - I found two a day stopped the symptoms after 48 hours, but I continued at that dosage for a further 5 days, then reduced to one a day for a further fortnight before moving to alternate days
The cystitis came back very quickly when I tried stopping it altogether, but on this maintenance dose she has been find for a long time, and I shall not try stopping it again - you may well find the same when the current problems have resolved themselves, so hang in there
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I was considering keeping her on the cystophan when it's resolved anyway just to maintain a healthy bladder, considering all the issues she's had with it. I'm annoyed with my vets because they told me to only give her one cystophan capsule a day, and I'm reading now that for cats over 3kg, it should be 2 a day (Ragdoll is 4.2kg) She has technically had her one for today, as I gave it her after midnight, but shall I try giving her 2 a day instead? I've also ordered some extra ones for when this course runs out. That's good to hear that it took 48 hours and 2 capsules a day for it to work with your cat - I was beginning to think the vet had diagnosed her incorrectly and she had something a lot more sinister :/ At what point if I don't see any improvement shall I contact my vet? I don't want to leave it too long incase it IS something serious. Also, is it normal for her to pass a lot of urine during one of these episodes? I thought with cystitis they only passed small amounts of urine each time, but she seems to be doing a full wee.
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Hi Lolarag so glad to hear your girl is so much better after she got herself so badly hurt. i remember your talking about it.
i too think that having a litter tray inside is a good idea.
until she is fully recovered and while she may have cystitis having an indoor loo will really help her.
whilst it can be convenient for cats to go outside litter trays are great for cats that have medical problems or are feeling a bit stressed. my lot go outdoors but my nervous bod would not consider toileting outside where the filthy butterflies can watch her ..and gasp....there might be..noises. oh no! ;)
on a tangent here .... when i broke my jaw, i had nerve tingles and weird sensations in my face for nearly a year afterwards. i quite missed them when they went coz i could get my face to do funny tingles by touching my jawline anywhere. the (slightly relevant!) point is that nerves take a good while to fully heal.
so glad she is getting over the accident well xx
re dosing (we were posting at the same time!) I would discuss it with your vet. for example when it comes to pain releif our vet sometimes under doses them slightly if she thinks the pain is not severe as there can be problems with long term use of the pain killers. i think that your girl is not going to have a 'standard' cystitus as it may well be associated with the injuries she has had. your vet maybe taking this into account. if you feel you can discuss this with them do. if not please consider changing vet. i so much value having a vet who is very open with me about what she is doing, why she is doing it and will tell me when she is not sure of anything and why she has made the decision she has. she is 4 times as far away as my local vet and she is very much worth the extra effort :)
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Hi SamMewl,
Thanks :D It was a horrible few months but it was so worth it to make my baby well again!
I am actually worrying that her cystitis isn't exactly stress-related - as you said, with the issues she's been having, while she was recovering she did tend to hold urine in a lot. Would this not cause a bacterial infection, and would that not be the cause of it? If it is cystitis caused by bacteria, would she need different medication to clear it up?
I agree about the nerves. A part of me also thinks that if it isn't cystitis it may just be that she's regaining more sensitivity and not knowing exactly how to deal with it yet. There's no chance of her becoming incontinent, is there?
I will discuss with my vets re: dosage. How long do you think I should it leave it before I speak to my vet? If she hasn't improved with the one dose a day, that is. I'm surprised the anti-inflammatory injection hasn't had (seemingly) any effect on her thus far.
Sorry for all the questions, I've become a worry wart since her accident. She can't do anything without me breathing down her neck :D
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I'm so sorry you and Ragdoll are having such a problem :hug: :hug:
Cats need indoor litter trays even if they are indoor/outdoor. All 7 of our cats can come and go as they please but we have 3 large and 1 jumbo size trays indoor. They don't use them all the time, just when they need to. They are no bother.
I have no idea whether the diagnosis is correct or not but suggest you assume vet is correct for now. Our experience with Dinah some months ago was pretty bad. We confined to her to one bedroom with two litter trays for about a week until it all eased off as I didn't want her peeing all over the house and it meant she couldn't be bullied by Groucho who I'm afraid we blamed for it kicking off.
Meanwhile she peed on the duvet and rugs many many times. She had pain relief (injection followed by drops for a while) and was on two capsules of Cystophan a day for a few weeks. She is about 4.5 kg. Am fairly sure that vet took her temp which was normal so treated on basis of no bacterial infection. If it didn't clear up, I imagine next step would have been a blood test.
Dry food was withheld (great shame as she loves it) and we encouraged her to drink as much liquid as possible. She is fine now but it was a trial and no mistake. Vet wasn't sure that Cystophan would help but I believe it did esp as it has a calming agent in it that I am certain worked very well. Can't recall how quickly but 48 hours sounds about right.
Sending you both best wishes and hope it clears up quickly :care:
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One other thing is if you are stressed she will picj it up from you, very hard I Know..........think I am stressed all the time!
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Yes Rosella, they took her temperature and it was perfect - does this eliminate a bacterial infection? I was told that if this treatment doesn't work to take in a urine sample so they can test for bacteria. I've also read that bacterial cystitis is very rare, is this true?
Ragdoll has weed everywhere really :( My mum is being very good about it considering she's extremely house proud! I'm trying to stay calm, I never shout at her and always give her fuss when she has an accident. She gives me the eyes and seems worried she's going to be told off, bless her. I feel so bad for her, it's just one thing after another.
She is also not eating any dry food and only on gravy food.
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Yes Rosella, they took her temperature and it was perfect - does this eliminate a bacterial infection?
No I don't think so but, if she had a temp, this would be one indicator of possible infection.
I've also read that bacterial cystitis is very rare, is this true?
From what I've read, it's just less common so I assume that's why vets generally assume no bacterial infection initially and see how the patient goes. Cystitis is very troublesome but usually clears up relatively quickly. I would try and keep her confined for a while to lessen the areas she can pee in. It seemed pointless trying to keep cleaning everything until Dinah had recovered. Duvet finally went to the drycleaners for a wash and came up lovely so no real harm done. Gill is right that Ragdoll may pick up on your stress so try and chill a little :hug:
I'm glad your mom is putting up with it. Mom's are great aren't they :)
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shes still got some healing to do and i'm sorry its still difficult for you all. i wouldn't worry too much about incontinence just yet as she has some awareness of needing to go and this should only get better. in traumatic accidents like Ragdolls there is no definite way that the body heals and no guarantees but it looks, to me, like she has a good chance of making even more progress.
you (or you insurance company if your lucky!) has paid a lot of money for Ragdolls care and its part of the 'service' to discuss her treatment and to talk to you honestly about your worries. If you call and ask if you can speak to a vet and ask when its convenient for you to call back and ask questions. Then get all your questions listed. vets can be super busy but they should be happy to explain the treatment, listen to your your concerns and too to hear about Ragdolls reaction to treatment as it will help them treat her better.
good luck, she is lucky to have you xx
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Unfortunately, I didn't have insurance! I will definitely be getting some soon, can anyone recommend who would be the best company to get insurance with? She is doing ok so far today - I've just started her on the loxicom and she's snoring away :Luv: If she has no more accidents tonight I will assume it's started working because she's had an accident everyday since it started. If it doesn't start getting better I will definitely compile some questions and arrange a time when I can talk to a vet - I don't have one vet (she gets seen by everyone! Everyone knows Ragdoll!) so not sure who to talk to. Shall I just talk to the one who last treated her?
She is confined to my bedroom at the moment, and yes mums are great!
Thanks so much for being there everyone, it really is a great comfort knowing I have other cat lovers to talk to, and I love seeing that I've got new messages on here! I will keep you all posted!
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Another accident this morning :( I've noticed that when she does it, as well as the dramatic meowing, she is really hungry (will easily eat 2 bowls full of food within the space of 2 minutes) She still wants to go outside even when though she has a litter tray, and I've noticed that 'smell' outside (when there are frisky male cats about) I've noticed a new cat hanging around for a while now, and he does follow her. Could this be possibly affecting her even though she's been spayed? I don't understand why the meds aren't working :(
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I like to stick with one vet for each illness if possible so that vet can more easily spot signs of deterioration/improvement. Doesn't matter so much for vaccinations/chipping/neutering of course.
I've just read through your earlier posts briefly and now wonder if the various vets you have seen recently are at the same practice e that Ragdoll went to before following the car accident? I think you mentioned they were in Leicester? You need to be absolutely sure that any vet that sees Ragdoll is fully aware of her previous accident and the nerve damage.
I've noticed that when she does it, as well as the dramatic meowing, she is really hungry (will easily eat 2 bowls full of food within the space of 2 minutes)
Have you mentioned this to vet? When Dinah had cystitis she pee'd small amounts in various spots but there was no dramatic meowing or hunger.
She still wants to go outside even when though she has a litter tray, and I've noticed that 'smell' outside (when there are frisky male cats about) I've noticed a new cat hanging around for a while now, and he does follow her
I think you should keep her in one bedroom so that you can reduce the area that she is peeing on, better monitor her, protect her from any outside threats, inspect her urine for blood (is it pink?) and get a urine sample. Suggest you ask vet for a urine testing kit and get the sample to the vet as fresh as possible. Preferably within an hour or so if you can.
To be honest, I think another vet visit may be needed. As SamMewl says, you need to have a thorough chat with a vet that is fully aware of Ragdolls' recent history. Write your queries down so you can discuss in detail. This thread will be a useful starting point for your list.
Sending a few :care: :care: to poor Ragdoll and a :hug: to you.
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The vets I take her to now is who I initially brought her to after the accident (YourVets, in Birmingham) but they didn't provide any treatment for her up until when she needed enemas. The bulk of her treatment was done at Bell Brown and Bentley in Leicester, and YourVets in Coventry. I know that they understand the extent of her injuries though - all 3 vets have corresponded and the one I'm at now has a full history of her medication, etc, given by other vets.
I did mention the meowing but forgot to mention the food. It didn't really seem prominent to me at the time but it certainly does now and seems to be a fixed routine after she has an accident. It's really odd behaviour - just for about 5 minutes after she has an accident she'll act like this, then quieten down and go lay/sit down somewhere. I can't help thinking this isn't cystitis and must be something worse :(
I will try and keep her in but sometimes she just wants to go out. Yes, I will be taking a urine sample in if this persists. Does anyone know how much it costs to have a urine sample tested? Money is tight at the moment, and there's no point getting insurance at the minute because they won't cover this!
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Vets charge varying amounts for various tests. Please ring them and ask how much for a urine test and I would encourage you to discuss with the vet your concerns about the dramatic meowing, eating two bowls of food soon afterwards and then going for a lie down. Such behaviour doesn't sound like cystitis but I am no vet :shy:
If they are open, I would phone them now and not leave things until after Easter holiday :hug:
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I've just spoke to a nurse (a vet wasn't available) and they had a look at her history... They do think it's the tom cat exacerbating it, so even if the medication does work it won't cure it because the source of her stress is still there. They advised that I keep her in for a while just to see if her symptoms improve and in the meanwhile warding the other cat off with a bell and water pistol. They also said that the cystophan can take up to 4 days to take effect. Also, could someone tell me what the difference is between an in-house urine test and the one that checks for crystals, etc? What exactly does the in-house urine test test for?
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Not sure about everything an in house urine tests are for but I know it tests for protein levels (one indicator of good/poor kidney function I think) and blood :hug:
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Ahhh I see - it's £35 at my vet! (thought that was a little expensive)
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Wish my vet was open so I could check prices. £35 does seem steep for an in house test but tbh I think my vet gives us quite a good deal as we are regular customers having 7 of the furry blighters eating us out of house and home :)
I wonder if £35 includes a consultation fee with vet? I've picked up a urine test kit before now for our Freddie angel RIP for under £5, brought it back and waited for vet nurse to use the dip stick on it or rang an hour or so later. If protein levels were high or sufficient blood detected, I made an appointment to see vet to discuss the way ahead which was usually a blood test to obtain further info.
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The £35 was for the test that checks for crystals, etc. In-house one is £15.50 (I just double checked with them) Don't think it would have a consultation fee if I was just giving it to them to test. I'm now keeping her in and she's finally used the litter tray - she doesn't seem to be straining at all, doesn't cry, and seems fine really :/
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Aah. £15.50 sounds much better for in house test. Am delighted that your lovely girl seems more at ease and hoping she continues in the right direction :)
Perhaps the Cystophan is kicking in at last?
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This sounds good ;D
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She's just had another accident, but it's making me wonder...
She had a wee in her litter tray and then was scratching the door like she wanted to go out. I let her out into the hall (just to see what she would do) and she stopped again, so I grabbed her and brought her back in my room. She did a massive wee on the floor (thank God for laminate) and afterwards I felt her bladder: it was non-existent and has never felt that small until she began having these accidents. I'm starting to think it's not an infection at all, but she's just regaining more senses from her nerves but she isn't quite synchronising with them, so she gets the sensation that she needs to go again, tries to walk somewhere to do it and then thinks "uh oh, I need to go now." How happy she acts afterwards could be because she feels elated at feeling completely empty for the first time in so long. I don't know, it seems kind of logical to me. What does everyone else think?
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Here's a picture I took of her earlier, because I'm not sure if I've showed her off yet :)
Her eyes make me melt, I love her so much. :Luv2:
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Very unusual makings and a true beauty :Luv2: :Luv2: :Luv2:
I'm starting to think it's not an infection at all, but she's just regaining more senses from her nerves but she isn't quite synchronising with them, ............What does everyone else think?
I think you know Ragdoll better than anyone. You could be right and as far as I recall, you have not had any evidence of an infection being present. I think SamMwel may have been suggesting something similar in an earlier post.
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Thank you Rosella!
Yes she did mention something similar. I hope I'm right and it fixes itself soon!
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She is beautiful and agree with Rosella and Sam and suggest a second tray for now so she can either get back there quick or you can pop her in.
Sounds like after releasing some urine she thinks she is finished and very quickly band she needs to go again big time. Still could be cystitus but also could be what you have siad :hug: :hug:
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Thank you Gill - her and her mum are so precious to me.
I did try to keep her in my room last night, but after 2 hours of constant meowing I carried her outside. She went straight to her normal patch and did a wee. When I bought her back in to my room, she tried desperately to get into the hallway. I tapped the litter tray and tried to persuade her that that's where she needs to go, but she just wanted to go out into the hall. She did eventually go in the tray, but the fact she waited before she went was proof to me that she can hold it, but for some unknown reason she really wants to wee in the hall. We thoroughly cleaned the carpet there and her litter tray is always kept clean, so I don't understand. It seems she would prefer to go outside, wee there, and then do the rest in the hallway. She's not pleased at all at having to be kept in the room and using the tray. Yesterday she did actually wee on my bed, either when she was asleep or just after she'd woken up. She seemed quite shocked by it anyway. It seems to me that most of the time she can hold it, but the odd time she can't. This is all so confusing! I wish she could talk!
EDIT: I've just thought that if it is cystitis she's associating the tray with pain and that's what is making her reluctant to go there, but wouldn't she just do it somewhere else in the room?
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Another accident this morning when I let her out into the hallway, and also she keeps wetting the bed, sometimes jumping off in mid-flow like she's scared :( She also gets very wet around her bum area, this obviously doesn't happen when she is weeing normally :( I think I will definitely have to go with the urine sample, but I'm terrified of what it will be.
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I don't understand what it could be unless it's a bacterial infection or just her nerves being funny. It's strange that her nerves would suddenly change like this though a couple of months down the line. She used to urinate before but not empty her bladder, now when she has these accidents she will need to wait a moment, it drips, and then comes out full force, wetting her back end. I don't understand if this means she truly knows what she's doing, or is only feeling the urge at the beginning? Is there any medication to help bladder issues like this? I don't understand if it's a progressive or regressive action :(
Sorry to keep going on, I just can't stop thinking about what it might be. I'm quite annoyed that my vets didn't take a urine sample in the first place and just shrugged it off as stress-related cystitis, since they know she's been retaining a lot of urine the past few months, and which would obviously make the bladder a breeding ground for bacteria.
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I really don't know :hug: I think you need to keep her in your bedroom though. I know it's upsetting that she pees on your bed but you can protect your mattress and get the duvet cleaned at a later point. I think the vets/vet nurses can only ever go by what we tell them. Consequently if you say inappropriate weeing and stranger cat stalking her, they will be led to thinking of cystitis. If however you concentrate on other behaviours, they may suggest alternatives :hug: I don't have any experience of Your Vets so cannot say what they are like.
I suggest you re read through this thread thoroughly, take your time, from the beginning and make notes of what you now believe to be the important recent changes in Ragdoll's behaviour and insist on discussing these with the vet, not the vet nurse, when a vet is next available. It is very difficult sometimes to think clearly when you are dealing with a much loved pet that appears to be in distress. I do sympathise.
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Thank you Rosella, that is sound advice.
I don't think I inferred anything specifically though - I only mentioned the stray cat because the first thing they asked me is if there were any new cats in the neighbourhood. I also suggested it may be related to her nerve damage, retaining urine in her bladder, also mentioned about her going into heat and whether it may be something caused by a bad spay job, but they seemed to just latch onto stress-related cystitis.
I will tell them how her behaviour has changed when I go in tomorrow, and will bring a urine sample with me. A part of me hopes it is just a bacterial infection, because that'd be so much easier to treat than a nerve related problem :(
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Here's a picture I took of her earlier, because I'm not sure if I've showed her off yet :)
Her eyes make me melt, I love her so much. :Luv2:
She is stunning :Luv2:! I have just been quicky reading the thread so an not completely up to date on her medical condition.
I have a very timid cat, Milly. She gets stressed about anything and everything (even changing the litter used in her tray can start her off) and we have had the occasional bouts of cystitis. When this has happend she has had accidents all over but the amount of wee is very small. She would stay crouched down for ages but either nothing would come out or such a small amount you could hardly see it in the litter tray. She would jump off but withn 10 minutes or so would wonder back tot he tray and try again. Poor baby was obviously in some discomfort and because she could not go, that was making her more stressed. Luckily she has always responded quickly after a visit to the vets. I have never known her wee lots or meow really loudly and certainly never want to eat lots afterwards.
I do hope that whatever is wrong with Ragdoll turns out to be because she is actually getting better (if that makes sense). It is great that you love her so much and your mum is great for being so supportive
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Hi MrsPurrfect, thanks for reading the thread :)
This is what is making me think it's not cystitis - at first she was doing it in multiple places but they were quite big amounts. Now she tends to do it in one spot and it is really a lot of wee - more than she does when she wees normally, actually. She's not a particularly timid cat either (her mum is the highly-strung one in the family) so I really can't see it being anything stress related. She is definitely able to hold it in, but seems like when she walks down stairs that's what triggers it off :/ Then again, the weeing in her sleep suggests that sometimes she can't hold it in. It's a conundrum for sure. Hope I get some answers tomorrow and it is easily treatable, whatever it is!
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I will tell them how her behaviour has changed when I go in tomorrow, and will bring a urine sample with me.
How did you get on? :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Hi Rosella,
I didn't want to post anything in case I jinxed something but... She seems to be miraculously better! I didn't take a urine sample in because she just hasn't had any accidents since. Obviously if she does have any more I will get a sample tested but so far, she's absolutely fine! Been walking around the house lots and no problems whatsoever. Have no idea why it has suddenly got better but fingers crossed it stays this way!
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Thats good ;D
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That's excellent :) :) :)
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Fingers crossed that this was just a passing phase, for whatever reason :crossed:
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Thanks everybody! Very strange how it all turned out but happy nonetheless!
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excellent news lolarag and isn't she stunning!!
hope it continues, paws crossed for you xx
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Hi guys.
She had another accident Wednesday and tonight, after going 5 days without any accidents :( I'm going to keep an eye on her then I think I'll take in a urine sample.
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So sad for her and hope it can be sorted............may just be a temp setback :hug: :hug: