Moral Dilemma: New Adoptions when on Benefits?

[JackSpratt]

I think what CC's saying is that the person that started the post isn't in that criteria. They're thinking about how tight things will be financially and whether they can viably cope with the extra cost. She's not generalising that all people on benefits are irresponsible. 

Pudding....see this post.

[Pudding]

I think the title says it all really- would you even be considering having another pet if you are on benefits, no most people on benefits just go out and get a pet without any thought 

Without any thought of the price of the pets welfare needs Im meaning 

I'd be very careful about generalisations here. In the current market there are a lot of responsible people on benefits at the moment. Would you also stop people on state pensions having a pet or second pet?

[Fire Fox]

I am definitely not contemplating a second mogster, there would be paw wars!  :auc14:  I apologise for the title it was difficult to say what I wanted in such a short space, with the benefit of hindsight it's not my best effort.   

[JackSpratt]

I think what CC's saying is that the person that started the post isn't in that criteria. They're thinking about how tight things will be financially and whether they can viably cope with the extra cost. She's not generalising that all people on benefits are irresponsible. 

[alenax]

I think the title says it all really- would you even be considering having another pet if you are on benefits, no most people on benefits just go out and get a pet without any thought 

Without any thought of the price of the pets welfare needs Im meaning 

I disagree - I got a new kitten when I was on benefits and already had one cat and I thought plenty about whether I would be able to afford it, take it to the vet etc. So I'm quite offended by the idea that I didn't think it through.

[CC & The Pussycat Guys & Dolls]

I think the title says it all really- would you even be considering having another pet if you are on benefits, no most people on benefits just go out and get a pet without any thought 

Without any thought of the price of the pets welfare needs Im meaning 

[JackSpratt]

Always make friends with your vets too - most will accept a pay up scheme.....

Agree entirely. I have been known to be a bit cheeky and take in half the money and a cheque dated for the next time I get paid. The vets are really good about it now because they've know I'd not do anything to make them mistrust me - I care about my animals too much and need their services. 

[alenax]

I got a new kitten when on JSA - a friend of a friend's cat had kittens and was giving them away. This was in addition to an adult cat that my bf has had for years.

I don't think it's unfair; I've always made sure there's enough food to last them because although I don't mind eating 4p noodles 10 times a day, it's not the cats' fault we don't have money. They've never been spoiled, mostly eating Tesco's own brand cat food because I don't really believe in buying them expensive stuff (they see Whiskas as a treat), no offence to anyone who buys their cats expensive food my grandad lived in a village and had a cat that lived on leftovers and whatever mice he caught himself and was completely fine throughout his long life!

[dizziblonde]

People fall on hard times - I've ended up on benefits occasionally because of the seasonal nature of my work myself - but the furball food and insurance was always budgetted for (often ahead of my own food if I'm honest).

On the other hand I've got a relative who has cats out of the wazoo, feeds them really cruddy quality pet food, has none of them insured and just shrugs her shoulders that she'll "take them down the PDSA if they get sick cos I'm entitled to do that." Said relative hasn't done a day's work in her life, has no intention of ever doing so - the cats are pretty much left to their own devices and since she's just had a kid - I'm strongly suspecting the moggy army will be getting the heave-ho sooner or later knowing her fads like I do. People like her - no I don't think they should be allowed more pets - especially since she's up to something like 5 cats in a third floor flat, and she has no intention of ever paying more than a token penny or two for vet treatment - she sees getting this for a pittance as her "right".

[tab]

I think anyone who believes they are 'entitled' to anything from a charity should have a deep re-think. If I was struggling I would be grateful for any help I could get, but would not believe I was entitled to it, if that makes sense?

That is  exactly how I feel. I have a friend who had to take her cat to the rspca hospital as she hadnt got any money to feed herself and the cat was poorly. Normally Lizzy is insured but because of problems in her home she hadnt been able to renew it. Thats fine by me and it is something I would consider if for some reason I didnt have or was unable to borrow the money I needed but I wouldnt feel I was entitled to it because im on benefits
love
Tab

[JenGeorgieBob]

This has been an interesting discussion! I am not on benefits as such, but I am a student, I do rely on student loans and my student overdraft and I have just taken on a new cat, I also have a tortoise, a lizard and a bunny to care for. I have in the past and will in the future, go without things myself if my pets needed medicine or toys and so on...but I also live with my fiance who does work full-time, although he is not a high-earner. We are saving up to get married, but, should any of the pets need money spent on them, the wedding fund would go!
I think it does depend entirely on the person, my mum's financial situation has taken a downturn, and she has pets, but, like me, she would go without first. I think whether someone takes on a new pet whilst also on benefits depends entirely upon the person and their attitude towards their 'masters'. A lot of people who struggle financially with pets will find a way to care for them or pay for medical treatment, some though, will not bother trying to find a way to pay for their pets, will not do without themselves and will expect handouts.

I have also suffered from mental health issues in the past and have found that my pets have been such a boost for me and I couldn't imagine doing without them now.

I do not go out, occasionally have a glass of wine at home, I don't smoke, I chose to spend my money on my home and family (my family includes my fiance and all the pets we are owned by!)
A friend recently suggested to me that I could go to PDSA should Benji need any medical attention due to his FIV status, but the way I look at it, I have savings I can raid to pay for any bills and I chose to take him on, he is my responsibility and I would rather pay for his needs myself

I think anyone who believes they are 'entitled' to anything from a charity should have a deep re-think. If I was struggling I would be grateful for any help I could get, but would not believe I was entitled to it, if that makes sense?

[Feline Costumier]

remember Portia?

That's who immediately sprang to mind from your post Trigger although I'd like to think she was a fairly exceptional case and a bit of a collector too.

[Kay and Penny]

remember Portia?

[Dawn F]

the story sounds familiar Mark - wasn't it someone who was on the forum a while back?

[Mark]

there's a big difference, in my mind, between taking in a stray which has turned up on your doorstep, even though you can't really afford it, and deliberately going out and acquiring a pet even though you couldn't pay any vet bills

and then finding it too difficult to get to the PDSA when the cat is dangerously ill, handing her over to a local rescue to pick up the pieces, and then going out and getting another kitten

Did you post about this person?

I know Ela is aware of someone who gets kittens. Once they grow up, tries to give them to CP and then a couple of weeks later, asks  for more kittens kittens. 
Heartless 

[Kay and Penny]

there's a big difference, in my mind, between taking in a stray which has turned up on your doorstep, even though you can't really afford it, and deliberately going out and acquiring a pet even though you couldn't pay any vet bills

and then finding it too difficult to get to the PDSA when the cat is dangerously ill, handing her over to a local rescue to pick up the pieces, and then going out and getting another kitten

[Leanne]

We were debating this in our office lot long ago.

I'd sell a kidney (you know what I mean) to give my boys what they needed, especially an veterinary treatment. For us we have a credit card for emergencies and I have to say I'd use that if need be, I'd never cancel their insurance though.

[Liz]

Always make friends with your vets to - most will accept a pay up scheme when I just had Sweetie and Toerag my vet let me pay up any treatment with a standing order - I spent time unemployed as I have done since moving so know how good a friend the vet can be

I have to say that we aren't seeking any more new addititions to the Clan as we have the outside crew to consider to plus all the ones living on the inside and with OH working away from March its me and the cats and dogs 5 nights  aweek on our own - anymore would be pushing it I think although OH said if we can get Spider he can come in if he wants - hate to tell him we have a newbie another boy lovely ginger - he was waiting for me in the garage at feeding time tonight = all nice and dry but hissy from the snow!

[Janeyk]

For me it's more about people that adopt knowing full well that they cannot afford veterinary treatment and believe they're 'entitled' to PDSA care, as I said I think the PDSA should be there as a last resort and not a first resort.

yep, those are my feelings too

[Fire Fox]

This I fully and wholeheartedly agree with. PDSA is a safety net and I do all I can to avoid using them. Luckily my two have so far been healthy apart from some tests etc for Dave's tum last year. At the moment inurance for my two is about £20 a month and I just don't have it and it makes me sick thinking about the possibility of them getting ill. I just keep going looking forward to the second I have that spare cash.

I didn't even buy a winter coat this year which I still depserately need as I got cat trees and always the best food and litter I can.

I think it's safe to say what gets to most of us are those that give no second thought to the strain charities are under and just take take take from whoever and wherever they can.

  Lots of bittersweet anecdotes on this thread but this one particularly made me smile! Thanks to everyone for the replies so far, I feel I 'know' some of you a little better from your stories.

[Feline Costumier]

I don't think it's just about benefits so it's not as simple as 'if you're claiming benefits you shouldn't take on additional pets' and i'm certainly not saying that if you are on a low income/benefits thst you shouldn't have pets. People can choose to spend their income (whether it be from benefits, wages or a pension) on whatever the hell they like and it's better to spend it on pets than booze and fags! For me it's more about people that adopt knowing full well that they cannot afford veterinary treatment and believe they're 'entitled' to PDSA care, as I said I think the PDSA should be there as a last resort and not a first resort.

If I was in a position where I needed urgent vet care for the boys and couldn't afford it but didn't have insurance, family/friends that could help out then I would ask the PDSA for help and would be eternally grateful but I think the point is to take on extra pets knowing you can't afford it is not really fair on the charity.

This I fully and wholeheartedly agree with. PDSA is a safety net and I do all I can to avoid using them. Luckily my two have so far been healthy apart from some tests etc for Dave's tum last year. At the moment inurance for my two is about £20 a month and I just don't have it and it makes me sick thinking about the possibility of them getting ill. I just keep going looking forward to the second I have that spare cash.

I didn't even buy a winter coat this year which I still depserately need as I got cat trees and always the best food and litter I can.

I think it's safe to say what gets to most of us are those that give no second thought to the strain charities are under and just take take take from whoever and wherever they can.

[Tiggy's Mum]

I don't think it's just about benefits so it's not as simple as 'if you're claiming benefits you shouldn't take on additional pets' and i'm certainly not saying that if you are on a low income/benefits thst you shouldn't have pets. People can choose to spend their income (whether it be from benefits, wages or a pension) on whatever the hell they like and it's better to spend it on pets than booze and fags! For me it's more about people that adopt knowing full well that they cannot afford veterinary treatment and believe they're 'entitled' to PDSA care, as I said I think the PDSA should be there as a last resort and not a first resort.

If I was in a position where I needed urgent vet care for the boys and couldn't afford it but didn't have insurance, family/friends that could help out then I would ask the PDSA for help and would be eternally grateful but I think the point is to take on extra pets knowing you can't afford it is not really fair on the charity.

[Rosella moggy]

Oh dear this is getting heavy.  I don't like thinking about this one at all, but being as truthful as I can be, if I found myself with no cat and on benefits, yes I think I would take the risk and home a cat.  I would do everything I possibly could (including £5 p/mth pet insurance) to ensure that my cat was well cared for with the small amount of money I had.  I would never expect a charity like PDSA to pay the cat's expenses but if push came to shove I might beg them for help. 

I'd turn to family and friends first and even take in lodgers but there might come a time when I just might be tempted to approach cat charities for help.  I am so very thankful I am not in that situation though.l

[Janeyk]

I think it only sensible and fair that people should ensure they can afford to care for their pets properly before adopting but if circumstances change and people then find themselves on benefits and relying then on places such as the PDSA I don't think they should adopt additional pets in those circumstances.

[tab]

When I got Mogs I was working full time. When Amber walked in I was off sick but fully expecting to be working full time again very soon. 10 yrs later I know thats not happening. I pay insurance for Amber although it doesnt cover her for cystitis as she had that before the cover. I also paid for Mogs but obviously thats now cancelled. Since Mogs died I wont get another cat. Not only because its not fair on Amber who seems happy being an only cat and having all my attention but because of the financial situation. After being ill for so long I no longer have any savings and on £100 a week dont have chance to save so I wont take the risk. If Amber went I would miss having a cat so much but I also know that adopting a cat wouldnt be wise. I always said I would offer to 'foster' on a long term basis for a rescue and although I would pay for food, insurance and whatever vet bills I could afford I would take on an ill cat that the rescue would pay vet bills for. I realise this is maybe a situation that wouldnt happen but who knows when the time comes what my circumstances will be.
love
Tab

[Tiggy's Mum]

My initial response to this question was, cats can be pretty expensive and a responsible person would not take one on unless they could afford it....

then I made the mistake of thinking, "supposing I found myself on benefits with no cat to share my life ?" and that put an entirely different perspective on the discussion    I've never not had a cat.  I simply couldn't face not having a cat.  What would be the point?  Suppose I could become a foster but that would be doomed to failure 

Would you get an additional pet whilst unemployed/on long term benefits though and expect the PDSA to take care of all it's medical needs? I think the PDSA should be there as a safety net for owners who have fallen on hard times/lost their job/reduced income etc You can get pet insurance from £5 a month so if you are on a low income then insurance should be the first priority in my opinion.

[Leanne]

My initial response to this question was, cats can be pretty expensive and a responsible person would not take one on unless they could afford it....

then I made the mistake of thinking, "supposing I found myself on benefits with no cat to share my life ?" and that put an entirely different perspective on the discussion    I've never not had a cat.  I simply couldn't face not having a cat.  What would be the point?  Suppose I could become a foster but that would be doomed to failure 

Exactly my thoughts too.

[Rosella moggy]

My initial response to this question was, cats can be pretty expensive and a responsible person would not take one on unless they could afford it....

then I made the mistake of thinking, "supposing I found myself on benefits with no cat to share my life ?" and that put an entirely different perspective on the discussion    I've never not had a cat.  I simply couldn't face not having a cat.  What would be the point?  Suppose I could become a foster but that would be doomed to failure 

[Mark]

I think it is the best way anyway. Most expensive wet cat foods are a con anyway whereas they seem to add the quality supplements such as glucosamine to quality dry. We feed decent dry -  Hill's or similar with mainly felix & whiskas because they like it. I have tried all kinds of premium wet but it just goes to waste, as the the renal wet. I keep buying it as I feel like I am letting Clapton down if I don't keep trying but very little gets eaten.

[Kay and Penny]

I live on a low income - pensions in my case - and would be quite unable to afford huge vet bills, and the nearest PDSA is over 50 miles away

so my three are insured  - though to do it I had to cancel my Denplan insurance (and no NHS dentists around here either )

as for day to day costs, I would be pushed to feed them all on premier wet foods, but luckily for me none of them are very keen on wet food, and premier dry is affordable in bulk, and no waste either

[Shiroi-Neko]

Some people on benefits have more money than others who work but earn a low wage.

me and hubby are in this criteria low wage workers. Most people where we live are mostly on benifits and they seam more well off then us.
They can afford pedigree dogs and HP cars

[Liz]

I got Sweetie and the late great Toerag when I was unemployed - they had the best of everything I could afford and I ate very cheap food and lost loads of weight so they could have everything they needed - on seperating from first husband I got maintenance for them!

With the size of the Clan now we both work full time in my case full time temping for the Council - (for the Benefits section) so see the folks that we support and wonder why!

We have a large family and forgo a lot of things to keep them safe, vet checked and above all happy - beleive me when I say my worming bill is £150.00 a quarter for the cats, we also have £400 a month on average for the Program and Boosters on a monthly basis. we also had £30.00 a month for the late great feral Tiger with his diabetes.  We have had some very large 4 figure bills but OH has a credit card for that and I never ask

Still  I always advise the vet fix the cat the cost will come from somewhere - usually OH or my Dad

I also have my Boys Sky and Sunny to consider for Boosters, Program, worming and kennel cough etc and have to say Sunny is a bit accident prone and can even add being bitten by a posionous snake to his CV and he did most his his damage to himself before he was one

We don't have holidays, or spend much on ourselves and grow a lot of what we eat and use coupons and look for bargins in fact I never pay full price for anything if I can get it at a bargin by waiting!!!!

[Dawn F]

I think it depends why you use charities - if you go into pet ownership expecting them to bail you out its wrong, if you happen to be going through a rough patch and need help that's different

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Some people on benefits have more money than others who work but earn a low wage.

[Daisymac]

People circumstances change and they can find themselves on benefits,   in these cases I really think that the PDSA is great and can certainly help,   as others have said it is people that expect help without wanting to give back anything,  (not necessarily money but as Ruth has said maybe blankets etc,  or maybe a bit of volunteering to help out the PDSA fund raising etc) I am not on benefits but sometimes we find it hard to find the money that is needed for certain treatments, frontline time always hits us hard with 10 cats in the house,   but we go without treats and the little extras that you add to your shopping trolley. 

I dont think there is any definative answer to the question,  if someone is on benefits and can give a cat a nice home and can cover the cost of neutering,  injections etc and would only need help from the PDSA in unforseen circumstances then I think that is OK,  but if someone wants to take a cat knowing they dont even have the money to cover the initial costs then that is wrong.   

[Shiroi-Neko]

We do get calls from people that I find quite irritating. People who ask if they are "entitled" to get money from us to pay for jabs, vet bills etc etc.

I took one such call quite recently. A chavvy sounding woman phoned on behalf of her brother. She asked if I could phone her (On a mobile btw) to tell her what her "Bruvver" was "entitled" to for his new kitten. She said she wanted information on Neutering, vaccinations and "everything else that he is "entitled to" being unemployed. I too can understand people whos circumstances change needing help to keep their animals - but to take on new ones when you have no means to take care of them is moronic.

Basically, the answer to the original "New Adoptions" is no.

Amen to that! especially if its Chavs!

[Mark]

We do get calls from people that I find quite irritating. People who ask if they are "entitled" to get money from us to pay for jabs, vet bills etc etc.

I took one such call quite recently. A chavvy sounding woman phoned on behalf of her brother. She asked if I could phone her (On a mobile btw - I usually keep these calls short and tell people that the charity can't afford to pay mobile calls - even though I am using my own minutes) to tell her what her "Bruvver" was "entitled" to for his new kitten. She said she wanted information on Neutering, vaccinations and "everything else that he is "entitled to" being unemployed. I too can understand people whos circumstances change needing help to keep their animals - but to take on new ones when you have no means to take care of them is moronic.

Basically, the answer to the original "New Adoptions" is no.

[koscha (Ruth M)]

I've been on benefits due to a nervous breakdown. it was tough going but my boys never wanted....They came first, I refer to them as my 'sons' thats the level of responsibility I feel for them. My ex would say 'oh..I want to buy this new game for the xbox' to be told in no uncertain terms that the money was needed elsewhere and he'd have to  wait until someone got bored of it and he could buy it second hand for a fiver say!

I have used the PDSA and always did my best to make a donation. If I couldn't make a monetary donation then I would take in blankets, newspaper just in case they needed it. i never took them foregranted, I despised the chavs who would turn up with thier long suffering animal, moan about giving them a fiver, then get in thier tricked up chav mobile and butter off!

I do smoke, but am teetotal and never touch any illegal drug ( the legal ones are hard enough to deal with). 

[KrazyKatLady]

This is what makes me laugh, if someone has an x-box or such, they don't mind going out and paying 30 odd quid for a new game ( as well as funding their cigarette and alcohol habits!! ) but still want freebies for their pets.... and then there are people that think I am mad for spending 20 quid on a water fountain for my bubby's... lol!

I remember posting on FB somewhere that I took my pets to the PDSA but always made donations and was told that I shouldn't be using my benefits for this. I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't drive and my only "vice" apart from cats is chocolate.
 
 

[Pinkbear (Julie)]

Well I suppose I can speak for one of those charities who are called upon when people can't pay for basic needs themselves. 

It's bonkers to willingly take on a kitten and not think through how you will provide certain aspects of care or do so planning to expect a charity to pick up the tab. Yet we get it again and again, day in, day out.  It IS part or responsible cat ownership to neuter your pets. Charities exist as a SAFETY NET not a long term care plan. 

So while I have full sympathy for people who find themselves in unexpected hardship and we will always support such people, it's the others who have no sense of personal responsibility that get on my wick. Pet ownership is NOT a right, it's a privelege and a luxury and comes with a serious long term financial commitment. If we view it any other way we are in danger of classing pets as material consumer products along with an X-Box or an Ipod.