Annoyed with Farmer

[CurlyCatz]

third world countries etc i can see why maybe..some "oddballs" that do in western world believe it is best to let your child decide when to wean.  It was on telly about a year ago and a 7 or 8 year old tubby girl was (just at bedtime mind !) made me feel abit yukky i have to say.  I reckon anything up to 2 or so is fine.  Connor weaned himself at 11 1/2 mnths and anya at around 8 mnths -- both much to my devastation but both coincided when they were on their feet and wanted to explore, they wanted a cup or bottle and carry it with them rather than lie back where they couldnt see anything 

[blackcat]

which begins to smack of pedophilia to me - why would you??!!

[CurlyCatz]

some cats will be able to nurse their kittens even though they have had ovariohysterectomy during emergency c section procedure..same with humans actually altho less common.

also explains why some peeps can breastfeed their kids till they are around 7 years old   

[blackcat]

I can vouch for that - Esther continued producing milk for at least a month after she was speyed as Smidgen was sneaking a drink on the sly (until I caught him at it!!). Also have known of goats to come into milk without producing a kid as there were orphans around ...

[CurlyCatz]

First i'd like to say that yes this is fairly common practice (but i do believe less so than what it used to be), as a child i came across odd buckets lying (twice) and investigated as to why another bucket had been placed over the bottom one with a stone..to my horror dead kittens (not 2 days old either - older ! ) were  there.

Some farmers love their animals but many dont see them as "humans" ... most real animal lovers seem to regard their animals on par with themselves or their own kind but some farmers see them as "creatures" so its not so much the case as loving or not loving ..its hard to explain really.  Yes its entirely wrong i agree but it aint ever going to change for that generation so no point in trying (i have most of my life)

Some do treat their prized animals such as sheepdog very well indeed though but others are little more than "things" if they work they get fed..if they dont well they are better dead coz they aint of use to them.

Reporting this farmer in question to the sspca will do no good unless the inspector catches him or the evidence which is highly unlikely...also they are less willing to upset the apple cart and would rather keep an open communication going because they know the farmer has lots of other animals..again wrong but thats how it is, inspector will think better to be on side with farmer for future issues than to alienate the farmer.

Regarding the milk production....the ovaries arent really needed at all in milk production.  Prolactin is what makes us lactate..suckling produces this in the pituitary (and also oxytocin which enables the "let down of milk) so reproductive organs not required really. so long as something suckles then normally milk production will carry on providing the animal is quite happy, nutrition is met and enough milk is being taken off.

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

I've only just seen this topic and sadly although drowning of kittens may be illegal, who's to know it's going on and getting the proof is virtually zilch unless you can get video evidence.   As for the RSPCA getting involved, I'm not sure what they could do without any proof.  I would suggest getting them done even if mum is pregnant again, as soon as she's finished nursing this lot, two weeks milk drying up and then getting her in.  At least this way, if she is pregnant, they will be done humanely rather than being full term and put in a bucket.  It is a horrible thought but this is how a lot of farmers deal with them and how they were dealt with years ago.  I've homed feral cats to farmers via my vet and the one's I've taken them to have been really nice, caring people and love their animals.  I have also dealt with a lot of farmers that are  but with a little gentle pursuasion, most will agree to get the cats done.  Good luck Stuart and I hope you manage to get through to him 

[Yvonne]

I do not want to tarnish all farmers with the same brush but I very much doubt that any of them actually "love" any of their animals. 

As for drowing it is illegal and should not be tolerated, if they do not want their animals they should go to the Vet like the rest of us and pay the appropriate fee for the service.  However, I dont know how the Police or RSPCA would react if anybody reported this to them, but it is illegal and the law is there to be abided by surely. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shropshire/6248696.stm

[Cheesecat]

He obviously doesn't love cats that much to drown them  and doesn't love his cats if he will keep letting them get pregnant and have kittens over and over and over again - different generation or not.

And good homes? I doubt he does a homecheck. Sounds like he just gets rid to anyone, if the alternative is drowning I don't think he will be hugely bothered who takes them.

Sorry this just makes me SO angry. 

[Millys Mum]

Or he could take the cat and get it spayed while its still nursing. The milk would continue to flow and she wont get pregnant again.

I thought the milk dried up if a cat was spayed while nursing?

I read that while looking at some TNR sites from american rescues, part of their guidelines is to replace lactating queens within x amount of hours so she can continue caring for the kittens.
Im sure Lynn could give a scientific explanation as to how it works.... i think its rather nifty 

[Dawn F]

Stuart I know that drowing of kittens is common practice in the rural area by mil lives in when I have questioned this I am told that they become lazy if they are neutered and aren't as affective mousers, maybe this farmer thinks the same?  Well done for trying though

[Desley (booktigger)]

not always Mark, they can still produce milk, due to the suckling of the kittens. Bella still allowed the kittens to nurse after she was spayed (despite them being 9 weeks old) and they either got something, or it was just a comfort thing.

[Mark]

Or he could take the cat and get it spayed while its still nursing. The milk would continue to flow and she wont get pregnant again.

I thought the milk dried up if a cat was spayed while nursing?

[alisonandarchie]

I know Bonar Bridge , a beautiful area near Carbisdale Castle which we have stayed twice. The topic really shocks me but I realise things are much tougher up in the North. Whilst we were staying on an Island in The Sound of Harris in the summer, we noticed so many dead sheep.  They were just left to their own devices with rams running around free to breed. There were also some 'fight to the death' going on between rams.

[Beccles]

To be honest as far as I'm concerned even aborting late-term kittens is MUCH better than drowning already-born ones... far less stressful for Mum too, and however awful once it's done it's done and no more kittens for that puss. I'd be inclined to whisk Mum away for spaying when the kits are 4-5 weeks old - try and minimise her chances of getting pregnant again.

As to shooting animals as a means of PTS - it turns my stomach but if I try for cold hard logic - if you do it right I cannot see how it's any worse than sticking a needle in a vein.... and I trust that a farmer that has to do that sort of thing once in a while they know how to get the job done cleanly and painlessly.

What a horrible sad topic. 

[Lizzie]

This is very common practice in farms and small holdings near to me in Scotland - horrific as it is.  I agree with Blackcat's thinking re the sheep dogs - as horrible as it seems to us, it's the farmer's own way of causing less stress to the working dogs.  Most farmers think very highly of their working dogs even though they are not pets.  He probably thinks he's doing 'good' by leaving the mother cat 2 of her kittens. 

I'm unsure if the SSPCA would take any action - would be interested to know their guidelines on this one.

Best thing to do if to try to pass on a local CP contact name and number to the farmer to give him the option of contact should more kittens arrive - he could get some guidance.  Or perhaps CP could visit him to discuss?  Mind you, if the farmer is like the farmers I know he'll probably be too busy to listen or to waste time on new born kittens, hence the drowning - probably thinks that is the most humane way of 'disposing' of them.

Not all farm cats are feral - some of the friendliest cats that I have known have been the one-eyed, 3 legged characters that lived on farms.

[Stuart]

Sandy is not short on pennies !! and as far as I know he only gives Kitty's to good home's "Free"
My Mother would have soon told Him where to go if He had asked for money.

I am Mainly annoyed Because over the past Year and a Half that's all I've been hearing from my Mother
Sandy's got more Kitten's again !! I have recently lost my Hamish, and hearing new lives being born made
me feel happier ?? if thats the right word, but then She wouldl turn around a few days later telling me
that they've been Drowned, which Boil's My Blood !!!! 

An Anonymous Tip off sound's like a very good Idea !!

[Millys Mum]

But what ever happen's I do know that sandy wont let go of Kitty's to any old Home and will only be given to Good Homes

But hes happy to drown them. Whoever offers a tenner first will get if he's like any of the many farmers iv met. Very money minded greedy people 

If you know the farm address you could report to rspca and hopefully they would take the cat, dont count your eggs tho.

Or he could take the cat and get it spayed while its still nursing. The milk would continue to flow and she wont get pregnant again. Not ideal but he obviously wont time it right for her.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Eeven if the cat was pregnant but not far she could still be speyed and surely thats better than drowning kittens grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

I think he is just making excuses for himself 

[Stuart]

I have Phoned my sister to tell her about the Petalcleanse, and was sadly informed that 5 of the kittlens have been Drowned
leaving two for the mother, They are only 2 days old I am just off of the phone with my Mother, trying to get her to tell
the Farmer(Sandy) to get in touch with the nearest CP, and they will sort Puss out!!, my Mother said "it is not a matter of money"
and that Sandy had been to the vet's on several occasions to get Cat neutered, but the Cat was alway's found to be Pregnant
(Bad timing I suppose) I told my mother to tell him to get in touch with the CP anyway and they could take Cat away and return
her when she's been sorted, But she says sandy would never let them take away His Cat's as He loves them so much ??? I also
tried to tell her that it is not good for Cat to keep having kittlens for health reasons, and she say's that sandy is a strong minded
person and would not listen !! Mother ended conversation by saying that Sandy has a Lot of other animals that with Health issues
were more important Sheep, Cow's etc

Now I dont know what is happening to the 2 that's left as there seems to be a communication breakdown as to whether my
sister is getting one of them or not (Sister & Mother don't always get on )
But what ever happen's I do know that sandy wont let go of Kitty's to any old Home and will only be given to Good Homes

I still dont understand people who can do these things to another living animal and not seem to have a conscious

[Millys Mum]

Look up the local CP and pass it on your mum/sister who can then let him know.
Sounds like he would get them done but times it badly.

[Stuart]

Yes I Used to love it up there Sooo peacful and quiet, the house is on a 5 acre plot of land, with a single track road going by
Unfortunately over the years More and more people have disscovered that the road is a short cut ( misses out the traffic if
you went by the main road) Hence it Has got busier and busier over the years, Thats how My Grandfather's cat Fraser got
run down , But at least the guy stopped and knocked on my Grandfathers door to ask if he owned a Cat, ( He could have
just carried on)the man Carried Fraser down to my Grandfather(cause He wasn't able for his breath because of Chronic Bronchitis)
and told Him Fraser had a mouse in His mouth, There was Not a Mark on Him, and He's buried up there . He was a rare Puss!!
but I didn't like It when He would take the Young Bunnies, I know it's just thier nature but (I always used to take them from
him & free them)

Like you say Blackcat The Farmer is from a different Generation

Thank's for the tip about "Petalcleanse" I'll do some checking and let my sister Know
She does Seem Keen, But I still want her to take two  !!!

[Gillian Harvey]

Yes, as Gill suggested, Petalcleanse is excellent. I'm allergic to cats and I live with 12 of them! so it works for me! You can get it from Boots and other chemists (they may have to order it in) or online direct from the maker bio-life: http://www.bio-life.co.uk/

[blackcat]

That is one gorgeous location. Do you think they would leave it to me?? As for the farmer, you are right. He is of a generation where that sort of thing was the way you do it. The dogs probably never see the vet so a trip to the vet would be a stressful experience for them. He is doing the 'right thing' by his understanding of how the world works. As for the cat who keeps having kitten ... any chance she could perhaps wander into a trap for a quick overnight vet trip when this lot of kittens is gone?? With a ventral incision he may not even notice she has been done 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Wow what a picture, my dream a house in a field with no neighbours 

I think there is something called Petal Cleanse, hope I have got it right, that may help with the allegy. Dont know where you get it though, may be a search on internet would be agood idea 

[Stuart]

Ok, My grandparent's came from up north (about a mile outside Bonor Bridge, 50mls past Inverness, and one of our
nearest neighbours is a Farmer (thats where my mother's cat Korky came from) he has several cats, whom always
seem to be getting Knocked up, My Mother did say to him the last time " Why don't you get them Neutered ??"
and His reply was everytime He was going to do it, they're Pregnant again
Most of the Kitten's are rehomed pretty quickly, But what annoys me (I know some of you won't like this, I Don't!!)
Is that He is Prone to Drowning some litter's  He Has sheep dog's too, and I still remember the day He told
me He doesn't take them to the vet's to be PTS when they are done, but takes them into one of his field's & Shoot's
them  " He said He felt that His Dogs Knew if they were going to the Vet's, it was for being PTS "
But He is a Farmer of 66, and that is His Way's, I dont Agree with Him, But What can you do !!

My Sister Came round Yesterday, (My Folks are up there at the Moment) and they phoned her telling Her that The Farmer
Has More Kittens 7 of them, and that My neice is wanting one, I told My sister to get 2 !!!
But she told me her OH is Allergic to cats fur, I told her & showed Her (on the Net)that it's not the cats Fur He's allergic
too, But the Cat's saliva !! which goes onto the fur when they clean themselves !!
I was also looking for remedies on the net, then I wondered if any of you. have any suggestion's ??

I used to be allergic to Misty(hayfever symptom's, itchey eye's and running nose) but with time the symptom's subsided
and I was fine in a relatively short time !!

Here is a photo of my Folk's house up North(My Grandparent's are no longer here )
to the left you can see a dirt track road, which is the Farmer's road to his Byre where the Cat's usually have thier Kitten's
although this new batch, are apparently in the Hollow of a Tree..