I'm really at the end of my rope with willow

[ccmacey]

Aww bless him. Do they both want his attention, maybe this is why? Seems like rivalry to me. 

[Mark]

Clapton just avoids both of them he's like "anything for a quiet life" 

He doesn't even go after birds.

[ccmacey]

Mmm, maybe Kylie is doing it too but you only see Willow doing it? Maybe she is covering Kylie's scent? Do they get along Mark? Is she ok with Clapton?

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

I know it sounds snobby but if somebody calls me "mate" or "geezer" or similar, I give them the number for another B&B 

 

[Mark]

She is definately not scared of guests. She can't get out to see them quick enough and quite happy to show her belly to anyone 
She often tries to get in peoples rooms when they are checking in. I offer to take her out but some people love the idea of having a cat in their room. I tell them to make sure they put her in the hallway if they go out. So far she hasn't peed in any guest rooms. Only rooms where Kylie goes so I know Kylie is her issue.


I don't have any rowdy types as I only take couples. No kids, no babies, no groups, no dogs etc.  . If people sound "rough & ready" on the phone, I tell them I am fully booked (also if they sound like snotty posh people) 
I did take a booking for 3 couples for a weekend in September this morning (going to a wedding) but she sounded really nice so I took the booking. 

I know it sounds snobby but if somebody calls me "mate" or "geezer" or similar, I give them the number for another B&B 

[ccmacey]

Maybe she is frightened with all the guests coming in and out? Do you get rowdy groups of lads or lasses?

[Mark]

It works for that area but I can't have a litter tray in the dining room as its a B&B. I have tried keeping the door closed but it looks unwelcoming with doors closed (also hides my lovely original marble fireplace & antique clock  ) We think that when I close the B&B which doesn't look too far off, the cats will be less stressed as they will have a lot more space.

[Liz]

Mark if it works and the destruction stops then it sounds like it will work - maybe try a couple of trays in the other places to this may make her feel more confident - I have remove the lids of a couple of or covered trays and they can't be sneaked up on now and this has helped to - the high sides are better and capture more if they stand up!

We have a couple of feral pointers and we put out a couple of extra boxes with the paper based litter and 99/100 they hit it so less hassle and happier parents!

[Desley (booktigger)]

if it started after Kylie came, it does sound like she is doing it because she dislikes sharing - or dislikes Kylie.

[Mark]

I put a litter tray behind the TV and she used it (with Catsan in) 

Not a great place for a litter tray but if it works..........

I'm sure it will be fine until the others decide they want to use it as well 

[Mark]

She started after Kylie came on the scene.

[ccmacey]

You know the expression "shall I stick a broom up my   so I can sweep the floor at the same time"?
That's what I feel like now  

Whatever gets the job done 

Has she always done this Mark?

[Mark]

Thanks Tan  

Just when I was getting ready to start reading the 100 page fire regs ready for my inspection in 4 weeks, as well as clean, cook etc etc.

You know the expression "shall I stick a broom up my   so I can sweep the floor at the same time"?
That's what I feel like now  

Anyway, all this work has make me hungry so I'm off to the beach for a chicken club sandwich  

Thanks again, I'm praying there is something I can do (other than break her neck   )

[Nick (Peanut & Boo)]

Another good at expert is Tabor by the way. He is a world renowned expert , but not a behaviourist as such . He certainly knows what makes cats tick from scientifically studying them for 30 years. I've got several (120 + ) cat books if there is any that you need that are not available get in touch I may have a copy.

[Tan]

The bonding dependant cat is now up Mark. Another long read but i promice def worth it esp the two cases at the bottom!

http://www.chaptanservices.com/purrs/index.php?topic=4919.0


I have learnt so much from reading books and online pages. I am totally amazed how little i knew the natural way of our beloved cats and it has given me such an insite in to making my lads a very happy one.
These web sites and Books esp Vicky Halls's and Desmond Morris's are a great read and def worth every penny. 

[forever_missing_my_boys(Lisa)]

sorry to hear u r having probelms mark ,

ive never had any expeirence with cats weeing where they shouldnt

i hope u manage to sort something out 

[Tan]

Sorry you had a bad night Mark. I hope things can get better for both of you.  If Willow has problems with Kylie that could well be the root of the problem but i am only going on what i have read from various books. I also thought - does Willow mind the guests in the house?  Could she be marking to cover different smells in the home? If they feel their core home and security is invaded by threatening smells, they will constantly spray and mark to recover their security. It may well be for the best to rehome her for both your sakes but hopefully it can be sorted instead.

I  have posted the bit (well big bit) from Vicky Hall about Urinating and scratching in the home all in one separtate thread as it seems to be a common issue. It's a long read but honestly well worth it. Jake's story at the bottom is a big insite to why cats do this marking indoors. 

http://www.chaptanservices.com/purrs/index.php?topic=4916.0


I am just doing the bit on dependant cats so that will be good to read for you too. That is def part of the problem too.  Will post here when it's up.

  

[JackSpratt]

Mark, my oldest cat went through a phase of pooing just outside the litter trays. (Yup, literally a matter of inches away, but far enoughfor it not to be a case of her perching the wrong way!) I cleaned the areas thoroughly and put down curry powder.(cats are supposed to hate curry plants)

Our house smelt a bit like a tandoori takeaway for a few days, but it was worth it because it had the desired effect!

[Ela]

Have you tried the Surgical Spirit and then when dried Feliway Spray. Over the years I have had so much success with it.

[Mark]

Thanks people  

I will go back to the old litter today. I tried cayenne pepper in the dining room and it didn't work. I will keep willow in the kitchen for a while while I deal with the "behind the tv" issue. I suppse I missed bits by giving the wires a spray. I suppose I will need to treat them individually them tape them together with waterproof tape so if it happens again, its easier to deal with. I don't have a lot of hope as she started in the old house when kylie came on the scene. I had to buy the simple solution type stuff in a green bottle that you water down and make it up in a bucket and mopped the house - luckily we had polished floors & tiles everywhere then.

I will check all the advice and see if there are any things I haven't tried. It will be heartbreaking to part with her but it may be the only option.

[Ela]

cyan pepper"

I think you may mean Cayenne pepper. Sounds almost the same though doesn't it?

[CurlyCatz]

my aunt had a problem with her cats mark and she says she put a good covering of "cyan pepper" (if thats the right name ?) down and the cat never went back to the area again 

[JackSpratt]

Some cats like different substrate for each different toileting action. (Not that they're picky or anything!) It sounds like Willow needs someone who has the time to be there for her 24/7, and unfortunately that's not you. (Not a dig, I have trouble keeping up the full time carer activity for my senile 16 year old cat.)

Some cats just aren't happy sharing their home with other cats; it's the way it is. It's obvious from your posts how conflicted you feel about Willow - you love her but the pressure she is putting on you is starting to impact on your attitude towards her a little maybe.

Vicky Halls is a wonderful behaviouralist, definately check out Tans info that you've been sent and see if there's anything you haven't tried.

Good luck, Mark. I hope you can figure out a way that you think you can all be happy living together!

[LesleyW]

Sorry to hear you're having such trouble Mark, I know what it's like - behind the telly seems to be the favourite place for my kittens - normally when I have not been fast enough in cleaning the litter trays.

I would go back to the old litter to start with, sounds like she did not like the change - and I have found alcohol sprayed on the area where they have peed does keep them away from it if you keep spraying it for a couple of days - bit of a waste but I just buy a really cheap bottle of gin!!

have a spray of the area and then a large one yourself, lol and keep your spirits up.

Lesley xx

[Nick (Peanut & Boo)]

commiserations my friend it must seem like an impossible situation especially when you are running a full time business in your home.

I wouldn't know where to start . Just a couple of immediate thoughts though.
Is it worth trying two or even three litter trays at differant locations around the house. Each cat may adopt a differant tray which may help particularly if Willow is avoiding the tray because she can smell the other cats there.
Some cats are really fastideous ,she may be avoiding the tray because your are `skipping' rather than complete clear and sterilise every time. (note the horsey term there ladies !)

I don't know anything about animal behaviour other than what I watch on TV but it sounds like Willow has transferred to you and was  never really weaned properly. This is exactly what happened to us with my ex partner's Dobie. It now follows her around all day and night and cannot be more than 2 foot away at all times. It is a real pain in the proverbial as she will try stand between you when you are talking or doing anything. Totally nuerotic. The princess also is over protective and barks all the time when anyone comes near .

Maybe therin lies part of the answer. Perhaps you need to be a little cruel to be kind as the saying goes and put her in her place .Make sure she realises that you are in charge not her and you don't need her to protect you. Looks easy on the tv but try telling your cat that is is no longer going to get `fed on demand' but at set times . I am having no sucess at this at all with Boo as I feed her all day long with prawns and ham 
Sounds like you need a short break from the situation anyway. Maybe a few days in a local cattery(thats the cat not you hee hee) will allow you to sort things out at the house and prepare a strategy .Plus it will give an eeasier start to a new regime with Willow.
best of luck anyway

[Mark]

Its a couple of years since she was tested so I will get her tested again. I know she is really highly strung. When OH got her from a rescue in France, she was described as highly strung and aggressive with children. She is like a spoiled brat when other cats are around and daddy's little girl at other times.

[Desley (booktigger)]

If it is stress due to other cats, the best option might be rehoming, it isn't fair on her or you - and if it is stress, there is a chance it will develop into cystitis. When did you last have her tested? It isn't a pleasant situation to be in though, but I Think the suggestions on your mum's cat threads are a good one.

[Mark]

We had her tested to make sure it wasn't physical. I am sure it is down to Willow being stressed because of Kylie. I will have to look at theadvice and see if anything helps. I have tried Feliway etc. It was getting better recently but Willow decided she wants to keep going down to the basement where Kylie is and has decided to reclaim it. I also woke up to pee on some clothes in the bathroom this morning. I am too busy to deal with her at the moment so she is going to be quarantined in the kitchen. The only problem is every time you open the door, she comes flying out. One thing is for sure, it can't continue like this.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Do you think Willow is doing it due to the other cats? Have you ever had her tested for cystitis?

[Sue P (Paddysmum)]

Oh Mark, what a middle-of-the-nightmare!

I hope that Tan's suggestions can help.

We all  know how well you've tried to cope with this on top of the general hassle with guests and everything.  It's no suprprise you're worn out and feeling the strain.

Hope you managed to get some sleep.

[Mark]

Thanks Tan,

I just had another drama over it. The fire alarm went off at 12.30 and I couldn't turn it off. The guests were frantic and it was only when I pulled all the plugs out the wall it finally went off. We were pulling wires out of the backup system etc so it will cost me a fortune getting it all sorted. I think it is down to some simple solution spray getting into an electrical socket  . My guests were not impressed. It was 1.10am before the alarm stopped and it was piercing.

It was a nightmare as I thought there must be a fire somewhere and I wasn't prepared as it has never happened before.

And so to bed 

[Tan]

It actually says in that chapter that a cat that is very stressed and very insecure and is spraying, has a prob with a tray etc it will hold most of it's wee and then spray it on the walls.  The things that Vicky got these people with alomost the same situation as you to do sorted all the probs out!!
will do it for ya morrow am. have a read cause you are not alone with those probs

[Tan]

She sounds really unhappy and so do you hun.  She sounds very dependent on you and very stressed and insecure. There is a whole chapter to this that has all that you have said about the peeing and scratching indoors in the vicky halls cat detective book. It has a story very simular to yours Mark and they solved their problem and had both much happier cat and humans. Do ya know why she is doing all this Mark? Is it purley she is a dependant babe or do you think there are other reasons. There is a reason and if you can pin point why, you try can to fix it.

There is already on here the advice from behaviourists bit about scratching here  http://www.chaptanservices.com/purrs/index.php?topic=4786.0 see bottom of that thread re Scratching as marking behaviour and anxiety-related. Also on that page are links re Separation Anxiety and stress and also here http://www.chaptanservices.com/purrs/index.php?topic=4826.0 re how to retrain her not to scratch the furniture and things to try.

I will post up the bit about dependant cats tomorrow for ya. It is very good and tells you how to gradually stop her from depending on you all the time and get her interested in other things and give both of you a happier life. 

[Mark]

She gets a lot more attention than most cats. I am at home every day and haven't had a holiday for 3 years - she follows me around like a lamb and wants to be picked up all the time - if anything, she gets too much attention - she is psycho 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

How much attention does she get?

She sounds like she wants loads of attention and is not very happy.

[Mark]

I'll try anything Angie. She's 8 years old so not sure if she can be retrained. She is a complete nuisance and follows me everywhere. I am around for her 23 out of 24 hours and haven't been away for 3 years. I can't keep up with the damage she is causing. The dining room carpet is trashed, also the curtains. I have had 3 years of it and can't do it any more.

[Angiew]

poor you!

Have you tried to pen her and retrain from scratch?

I have a cat problem like yours but just put up with it now.

Perhaps you should think about penning her when you're not there to supervise her so at least she can't do too much damage. Let her out when you can keep an eye on her or limit her to certain rooms when she's free. If its behavioural then it might even help if you define her territory in this way.

[Mark]

She peed behind the TV again today. I gave the whole area a good soak with simple and cleaned it up about 3 hours later to  give it a chance to work. Tonight, she repeated the offence and must have done about 1/2 pint! its all over the wires and a pain to clean up. Luckily its a wood floor but thats only because she trashed the carpet that was there before. She is also destroying the stair carpet with scratching. We estimated she has caused about £5000 of damage in this house alone.  I have been on the go since 7am and don't have any more patience with her. As much as I love her, she has to go. OH says the answer is to throw the TV out and get a flat screen  (we were planning to anyway) Also I had some guest towels on the floor ready for washing and Kylie peed on them tonight 
Do other people have as many pee problems with their cats?.

I think I am going to admire cats from a distance from now on.

I just had a thought. I changed her brand of litter last week and its Oko clumping. I have been taking the poo out but can't find and wee clumps. I assumed its because she scratches around for so long, she breaks them up. I wondered if there is a chance she is pooing in there but holding her wee? (cats minds  )
Anyway, I have let her sleep in the bed for the last couple of nights but she is back to the kitchen as from tonight.